Sam Harris

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Sam Harris Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:42:13 2022 No.52411985 [Reply] [Original]

After watching this fool lick Sam (((Bankman-Fried)))'s anus into oblivion on his podcast a few months ago, I'm completely convinced that this midwit has no fucking clue about anything. If anything, he was in on it. I unsubscribed from his podcast, he doesn't even release anymore shit anyways.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:46:13 2022 No.52412064 he doesn't know anything about crypto, finance and altruism but he has interesting convos when he gets scientists though

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:48:29 2022 No.52412108 he has good basic explanations for why free will is total bullshit without having to resort to complicated philosophical abstractions

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:50:14 2022 No.52412138 >>52412108 Peak midwit

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:51:07 2022 No.52412157 >>52412138 how so

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:51:13 2022 No.52412160 >>52411985 Jews

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:51:32 2022 No.52412166 >>52412108 Determinists and by extension materialists are the most immediately self revealing midwits in existence.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:53:44 2022 No.52412216 >>52412157 Why are you asking? Because you are curious or the laws of nature made you write the post?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:55:04 2022 No.52412237 >>52412166 ah yes tell us more about wood booga booga spritis

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:56:00 2022 No.52412249 I used to think he was smart but then i saw his arguments about covid and realised how much of a idiot he is, like the majority of the public.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:56:10 2022 No.52412251 >>52412216 i'm asking how you came to the conclusion that it's "midwit"

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:57:46 2022 No.52412280 >>52412166 Checked, based, and will cause midwits/redditoids (same thing honestly) to seethe

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:57:55 2022 No.52412283 >>52412237 even if determinism is true, people who believe otherwise are able to do more and differently for the simple fact that they aren't limited by the belief that their actions are predetermined.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:58:49 2022 No.52412298 >>52412157 >no free will undecidable postulate that no one can practically live by the philosophical equivalent of "omg dude like what if the color blue i see is different than the color blue you see whooaaaaa"

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:59:13 2022 No.52412308 >>52411985 >I'm completely convinced that this midwit has no fucking clue about anything. you JUST realized this?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 21:59:17 2022 No.52412309 >>52412283 lying to yourself isn't a virtue, even if leads to a better, happier, and more fulfilled life

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:01:45 2022 No.52412365

>>52412308
Oh, trust me, I found his takes on free will, corona, and his terminal Trump Derangement Syndrome to be cringe as hell, but I enjoyed his talks with scientists and his hatred for Islam. But yeah, I'm starting to think his midwit-ism might be all encompassing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:01:55 2022 No.52412369 >>52412283 well the average redneck meth addict alcoholic believes in free will and so do brown people guess who doesn't believe in it

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:02:25 2022 No.52412374 >>52412251 It is litterally only considered as smart by the people of average or slightly above average IQ. Everyone else sees how stupid he sounds, as I demonstrated with my previous post.

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:04:25 2022 No.52412407

>>52412365
>his hatred for Islam.

he criticizes everything about islam, but when it comes to judeo-kikery, he is always conveniently silent.
and you didn't find that strange at all. idk man, it sounds like you are the midwit here. i bet you watch lex friedman too.

get a life bro. stop watching kike podcasters.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:07:01 2022 No.52412466 >>52412407 You can't be a successful podcaster [or successful public figure whatsoever] if you criticize (((them))), that's just the way it goes. He doesn't have fuck you money like Rogan

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:07:05 2022 No.52412467 >>52412309 You're lying to yourself right now, midwit >N-no! There is a material reality that is REAL outside of our experience! >I can prove it b-because... because it just is ok!

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:07:07 2022 No.52412468 >>52411985 TDS did him in. He's been making a fool of himself for a very long time now. I am glad he's stopped. https://youtu.be/XVi1_cX4giA

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:09:13 2022 No.52412522 >>52412374 smart people also usually think for themselves, not appeal to what a majority is saying

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:09:57 2022 No.52412540 >>52412468 >Biden getting kickbacks from hunter selling the us to foreign entities doesn't even stack up against trump university based genius atheist with insanely astonishing moral compass

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:10:49 2022 No.52412561

>>52412466
>He doesn't have fuck you money like Rogan

no. he doesn't criticize (((them))) because he is, in fact, one of (((them))). the nose knows, i don't even have to see his early life - it's clear as day.
you just never realized it due to the fact that you are a midwit. there's nothing wrong with being a midwit if you accept that you are a midwit and try to reform yourself. that's how one reaches enlightenment

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:14:12 2022 No.52412637 >>52412467 it's fine if there is, nobody is denying the possibility, but it also can't be proven, which means it's more dishonest to believe compared to things that can be deduced with logic

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:14:25 2022 No.52412644 >>52412466 Had know idea biz was so bluepilled that it didn't know Sam Harris was a nepotistic heeb

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:15:27 2022 No.52412664

>>52412561
I never really considered that he was ((())) because nothing he said was particularly sufficient. He never opined on politics that much, and when he does he's just a pretty standard lefty. But sure, it's possible he's controlled in some way, but I still enjoy his non politically related talks either way.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:15:32 2022 No.52412665 >>52411985 >If anything, he was in on it Is he Jewish? Yes. So yes, he was in on it

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:16:56 2022 No.52412701 >>52412166 t. dead jew on a stick worshiper fuck off kike

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:18:00 2022 No.52412724 >>52412561 The video in this >>52412468 post and his knowledge of FTX are making me think he might be one of (((them))), but these were pretty recent. What has he done prior that stuck out to you, besides him just being a literal Jew?

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:18:34 2022 No.52412735

>>52412664
There's a gradient. There are the explicit "We want to destroy whiteness" jews, the "Fellow white people we apologize" jews, the "We love America's Judeo-Christian values" jews, the "We hate radical Islam" jews, the "We just want to do banking and science" jews, the "We don't do politics" jews, etcetcetc.

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:26:46 2022 No.52412922
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>>52412664
>I never really considered that he was ((()))

see, this is the problem.

you literally will suck a kike's circumcised dick just "because he criticizes islam" - ie, says what you like. you can't form your own conclusions from your own observations. you need someone to tell you what's right and wrong.

>>52412724
>What has he done prior that stuck out to you, besides him just being a literal Jew?
his hook nose is enough to form any conclusion. you don't need to eat a piece of shit to know it's a piece of shit - the smell is sufficient.

the difference between a smart person and a hylic NPC is that a smart person will reach conclusions based on heuristics and intuition, fundamentally because he trusts his own intelligence. NPCs and midwits, such as, sadly, yourself, need confirmation from the outside to know what's right and wrong.

I have, luckily, not seen a single video of Sam Harris and by his face alone I know all of his opinions. he's a kike who hates religion. but like all atheist kikes, he loves judaism. this hypocrisy is enough to discount ANY opinion that he has.
in more learned terms, i look at how and why the data is generated (his ugly kike face, his satan-worshipping religious views), whereas a midwit will examine the actual data (instead of looking at the underlying distribution from which the data is generated).

unfortunately, i have to tell this to you, but you are an NPC. and probably a redditor. i mean, i refuse to believe someone can be this bluepilled, on 4chan /biz/ of all places. /biz/ is one of the few places that is legitimately redpilled on the kikes, primarily because we have to deal with them every day.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:26:51 2022 No.52412923 >>52412664 >>52412664 How new are you? In his early years with Dawkins and Hitchens, Sam called himself a jewish atheist on occasion.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:28:15 2022 No.52412948 >>52411985 that's seth green

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:29:04 2022 No.52412975 >>52412948 That's Ben Stiller, you fool!

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:32:06 2022 No.52413047

>>52412724
He rose to prominence with his book A letter to a christian nation, in which he criticized christianity, the bush administration and all else
Then he spent the subsequent years being one of the nuatheists, criticizing christianity and the bush administration
In 2012, he began criticizing islam, and he spent the subsequent years criticizing and bashing on islam
For the duration of the 15 years I've known of him, never once did he criticize Judaism in this way, and he is yet to even dedicate one video to the talmud
He once, in 2011, debated Rabbi Wolpe. That's it.

But from that, you can not draw any conclusions, maybe the subject just wasn't as profitable to talk about or as relevant
But then he begins defending Israel's foreign policy, shitting on Iran, defending Israel's treatment of Palestinians, etc, and you realize he'll jump hoops to defend what he considers just, and jump hoops to criticize that which he considers unjust
And ultimately his morality is not based on whatever objectivity he spouts, but just what his tribe (jewish liberals) tell him is in vogue
And it became ultra evident when he literally smeared shit on his face and said it smelled really bad but still did it just to be able to criticize trump, and the video i linked is apparent
he has no moral compass, he is a midwit and he is a retard, and im saying this as someone who used to binge watch him and hitchens and so on in highschool in late 2000s
He was the biggest midwit of them all. He was the funniest so his shit was most enjoyable, but he was never smart, just another libjew criticizing whatever put him on tv at the time

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:34:33 2022 No.52413093 >>52411985 you realize this guy is another phoney, right?

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:34:45 2022 No.52413098 >>52412522 I dont know what is your criteria for "smart", but covid demonstrated that most of the publicly accepted smart people are indeed midwits. I am the same poster you replied to btw.

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:42:45 2022 No.52413261

>>52413098
You are not. I can tell by the IP and by the ID.
Jew.
Get the fuck out of here, Jew. Nigger.
Fuck you.
Fuck you, Jew.
I will kill you with the sword.
You are destined for my hatred, and for that you will find it incredibly difficult to seek your victims any longer.
Prepare.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:43:49 2022 No.52413289 >>52412138 Sam Harris is isn't he.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:46:56 2022 No.52413358 >>52411985 I realized he was a grifter wannabe cult leader after that stupid "waking up" book. He's a very pretentious condescending faggot

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:48:02 2022 No.52413378 You shouldn't listen to Sam Harris because he's a determinist, atheist, and leftist.

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:49:44 2022 No.52413423

>>52413098
again, not talking about what the public accepts or doesn't. it doesn't matter. sam harris and his opinions don't matter either. i simply said, he has a good explanation on the topic of free will since so many others fail horribly in doing it

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:49:56 2022 No.52413426 >>52412166 This. The fact that hordes of """"people""" still think you can draft an epistemology from materialism shows just how badly the West has fallen

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:57:10 2022 No.52413578

>>52412922
I'm an atheist so I can't fault him for anything he say about religion. If he has a blind spot for Israel, thats normal Jew behavior, it doesnt mean he's controlled opposition.

I can listen to a normal, low level Jew, which is all he struck me as up until recently.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:58:28 2022 No.52413602 >>52413423 You think he has a good explanation because you are a midwit, same as him. If you could really give it a deeper thought, you would realize how shallow his thinking is.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 22:59:15 2022 No.52413626 >>52411985 it really took you til NOW to realize NuAtheism was a midwit grift? i have some bad news for you anon.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:01:16 2022 No.52413676 >>52411985 Imagine listening to a kike podcast.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:01:33 2022 No.52413683 >>52411985 can anyone clip some kino parts of the podcast and post on jewtube or something? I really don't want to listen to this pseudo-intellectual's faggot podcast but I'd love to hear him gargle SBF's balls for the kek's

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:09:19 2022 No.52413844 >>52413602 you keep resorting to midwit this and that yet failing to come up with anything of substance, do you at all have any retort except the majority rules

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:10:50 2022 No.52413875 >>52413602 this. him and Lex are intellectual goyslop for midwits to feel like they're smart. they're the Beyond Meat equivalent of actual intellectualism.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:11:01 2022 No.52413885 He couldn't look more jewish if he tried to.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:11:58 2022 No.52413913 https://rhizzone.net/articles/sam-harris-fraud/ You may not like the source but he is a career liar

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:21:02 2022 No.52414103 >>52412283 the cool thing is, you don't decide what you believe either!

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:28:48 2022 No.52414264 >>52411985 this is anti-Semitism

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:29:48 2022 No.52414290 >>52413875 >actual intellectualism

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:52:44 2022 No.52414739 >>52411985 I'm sorry to tell you. But if you didn't realize this within five minutes of the FIRST TIME you heard this guy...you yourself are a midwit.

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:54:24 2022 No.52414775 >>52414739 prove it

>>	Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:55:04 2022 No.52414789 >>52411985 Everyone else knew this shlub was a loser when he tried to sit next to Dawkins, Dennett, and Hitchens when atheism was marketable. Complete fucking braindead that's been handed everything in life because his mom worked on Golden Girls.

Anonymous Sun Nov 13 23:56:17 2022 No.52414815

>>52414775
Prove what.
You have come to the conclusion he's not smart.
That's correct.
But if you listened to him up until now, and ONLY because you have particular knowledge in this arena, and just now realized he's not smart then you aren't smart.

People with good radar and a solid foundation of knowledge can determine morons without needing specific knowledge of a subject. They see flaws and obvious contradictions easily.
I'm sorry sir. Or son. Whichever.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:05:59 2022 No.52414988 >>52413844 You're asking for "substance" as to why this anon called Sam harris a midwit. Shut the fuck up dude you sound like an absolute retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:09:53 2022 No.52415056 >>52414815 are you smarter than him?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:10:17 2022 No.52415061 >>52412237 >>52412701 im not remotely religious. Honestly think materialism through.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:10:27 2022 No.52415063 >>52412166 People who believe in free will and larping as a catholic are the real midwits Sam is way too emotional is his issue You absorbed too many 4chan memes

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:12:15 2022 No.52415100 >>52414988 how is repeatedly calling someone a midwit and saying it's true because the general population also thinks so an intelligent point at all, this isn't even about sam harris

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:13:28 2022 No.52415125 >>52413426 Posts like this give me hope, anon. There are still people who get it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:14:56 2022 No.52415155 >>52415100 >>52412216

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:15:34 2022 No.52415165 >>52412108 cool, so he figured out what the Romans figured out 2000 years ago, nice work Sam!

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:17:43 2022 No.52415198 >>52415063 Catholics have the only true opinion on free will. Read Augustine Free Will, Aquinas Summa theologica sections on free will, predestination, and grace. Sam harris midwittery and jewry as a whole has been overcome in the catholic world

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:18:42 2022 No.52415217 >>52412108 Post his explanations

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:28:06 2022 No.52415376 >>52412701 Case in point

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:29:54 2022 No.52415409 >>52415217 Imagine three movie names, you cant explain why you picked those movies, therefore you are a robot automaton

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:30:44 2022 No.52415424 >>52411985 >I'm completely convinced that this midwit has no fucking clue about anything you're just now realizing that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:31:45 2022 No.52415440 >>52411985 Sam "The media lying about a million dead children in Hunter Biden's basement would be worth it to prevent Trump from being re-elected" Harris

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:33:03 2022 No.52415468 >>52415409 Abstract forces not contained in my physical body conspired to manipulate me into picking those movies. Therefore I am demonically possessed.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:33:50 2022 No.52415480

>>52415198
>Augustine thought that it was a kind of ability to exist in our soul, it is a kind of ability of reason and freedom. Whether we can have free will depend entirely on the will of our hearts, as long as the heart is willing to be.
you can't be serious about this passing as discourse on any level but pure faith

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:41:04 2022 No.52415617 >>52415468 This doesnt solve anything, it makes everything more complex, midwit

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:41:31 2022 No.52415623 >>52415056 Indubitably.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:43:52 2022 No.52415680 >>52411985 He’s a Jew.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:44:52 2022 No.52415705

>>52415480
>I model the world as if it's deterministic therefore everything is deterministic
Is this discourse?
Your ideas about the deterministic world are formed in a subjective experience solely concerned with making choices. Will is your entire reality but you dismiss it for a fancy model made up by that same human will you reject.
>>52415617
An explanation will always be more complex than offering nothing like you did. The subject is complex and all your reddit memes are retarded. You're too dumb to even try to understand what you're arguing against, you just parrot the memes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:47:49 2022 No.52415770 >>52415705 I've never seen a demon, most people haven't. If you have you were in some kind of drug induced state or some such, or youre mentally ill, or even worse, believe in demons without experiencing them firsthand

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:51:48 2022 No.52415856 >>52415770 So incredibly retarded. No hint of thought. Predictably triggered by words like "demon" into the most basic reddit bitch rant. What's the point of saying anything to retards like you?

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:53:36 2022 No.52415893

>>52415705
>Is this discourse?
when neither your genetics nor the environment that enacted upon those genetics to create your brain and by proxy every decision you'll ever make was not chosen by you, yes, it is a much more sound explanation

i never said there is no hope or possibility for things other than materialism (i personally think there are), but by virtue of being a purely faith based venture they lose out to rationality and what happens in the present, physical world of our knowledge, and how that knowledge is used to build the world we have today

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:54:08 2022 No.52415899 >>52415856 Awwwww weddit so mean you huwt my feeeeewingssss

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 00:58:49 2022 No.52416009

>>52415893
>when neither your genetics nor the environment that enacted
>If I assume determinism is true then determinism is true
You retards really are braindead. You don't think about any of these subjects at all.
>but by virtue of being a purely faith based venture
Parroting mainstream atheist dogma without building any sort of logical case is no better. That's not rationality. Conflating our models of physics with reality in any way is not rational.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:02:40 2022 No.52416084 >>52416009 How about instead of being an asshole you try to explain your ideas? Nothing we "retards" are saying demonstrates that we cant be taught. Instead you autistically fling shit like the faggot you were born to be

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:03:33 2022 No.52416097 >>52416009 well, what's your alternative hypothesis on the topic then. basic starting point is your parents fucked and brought you into the world without your consent with a set of biological parameters you had zero say in, mental and physical

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:04:47 2022 No.52416136 File: 646 KB, 767x960, magee intellectual patience.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>52412166 RIP Bryan Magee

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:11:41 2022 No.52416272

>>52415705
>Your ideas about the deterministic world are formed in a subjective experience solely concerned with making choices. Will is your entire reality but you dismiss it for a fancy model made up by that same human will you reject.

Please write like a normal person. Trying to sound like a movie quote just exposes your midwittery.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:14:52 2022 No.52416336

>>52416084
I already gave you way more to think about than you gave me. Go fucking think before talking shit about a subject you haven't even glanced at.
>>52416097
>basic starting point is
Again you can't stop working from the assumption that determinism is true to supposedly prove determinism. It doesn't matter how hard you believe in it, to demonstrate it you have to actually build a case, build a model from given premises.
>my model is true because my model says it's true
Is not building a case for your model.
You're also working from the assumption that everything is modellable. I know for a fact it's not because logic doesn't allow it. I'm not offering an alternative model because I'm not the one claiming all reality works according to these sorts of simple rules we can model.
The first thing I know is not being a baby but my immediate experience in this moment right now, to relate to the story of myself as a baby and being influenced etc I have to recall memories which is still an act in the present moment. To convince myself the immediate will I experience doesn't exist I have to use that will to construct an elaborate causal model which doesn't describe my will, therefore proving it isn't there assuming the model is correct.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:15:02 2022 No.52416341

>>52412298
That's a retarded take.
His argument is that if we take the laws of physics for granted previous conditions determine future ones just as a ball is forced to go from point a to point b given the right force, it has no choice
Unless of course free will lies beyond the purview of physics, but we have no reason to believe so>>52413047
>For the duration of the 15 years I've known of him
It's been that long hehe. Ahh, where did the time go? I was still in HS when I started my youtube atheist phase

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:15:15 2022 No.52416345 >>52416272 I think the fact the he admits to wasting his time futilely arguing with proclaimed "retards" in a dead thread on 4chan is a good case for a lack of free will

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:16:28 2022 No.52416375 >>52416336 >I already gave you way more to think about than you gave me. >there could be some force that I can imagine but cannot percieve in anyway manipulating me How does that prove or disprove anything?

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:20:13 2022 No.52416453

>>52416272
Say something you mindless subhuman. How can you retards actually be this fucked in the head?
>>52416345
The elephant in the room and what draws me to tardfests like this is the question of how you become this fucked.
>>52416375
Is just one of the avenues of thought I gave you. I even explicitly described the demons as abstract forces but you still sperged out instead of even just looking up the concept on wiki or whatever. You base everything you know about everything on pop media and reddit memes. There's no reproducible thought process behind anything, no actual logic just the same tired programming.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:20:22 2022 No.52416461 >>52411985 it was 100% obvious when he developed TDS that he is a bad actor.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:20:26 2022 No.52416464 Someone who believes in free will, give a definition of what that concept means to you, please

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:22:51 2022 No.52416516 >>52416341 >we have no reason to believe so We absolutely know the subjective experience, the thing we're actually discussing isn't described by any imagined physics model so far. It's probably provably impossible to model it.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:23:28 2022 No.52416529

>>52416453
>what draws me to tardfests like this is the question of how you become this fucked.
You dont really seem to be interested in that more than you are in insulting people and giving one sentence replies like they are self evident edicts from God

>I even explicitly described the demons as abstract forces but you still sperged out instead of even just looking up the concept on wiki or whatever. You base everything you know about everything on pop media and reddit memes

I thought you were the Diest anon that I was replying to earlier so I took what you were saying literally, Im sorry your highness please forgive me

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:24:04 2022 No.52416541 >>52415409 >I don't have full control over my mind, therefore I have no control over my mind Even for jewish logic that's weak

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:25:15 2022 No.52416566 >>52416464 The ability to contemplate before acting on decisions

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:25:43 2022 No.52416577 >>52416541 He is drawing the comparison, I guess the burden is on you to show an example of will that doesnt follow some invisible path from your subconscious to your conscious

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:26:33 2022 No.52416592 >>52411985 He also relentlessly shilled the Vax. He's clearly one of THEM

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:28:26 2022 No.52416630

>>52416464
You're the one claiming you can deboonk it. Yet you have no clue about the many different ideas about it or around the subject.
>>52416529
>I thought
No you didn't. You have never thought in your life.
>insulting people
What do you think you deserve when you regurgitate the same braindead posts we've heard parroted by you mindless shithead over and over for 15 years now? Say something even slightly interesting. You can't because you're a mindless automaton. You, specifically don't have free will because you reject it, someone else does all the thinking for you.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:30:10 2022 No.52416654

>>52411985
He's a trust fund baby, isn't he?, I never understood the appeal.
I remember a friend of mine recommended me his podcast years ago and five minutes in I was thinking "why the fuck would anyone listen to this idiot. He speaks like what an idiot thinks an intelligent person speaks"

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:30:42 2022 No.52416669

>>52416336
model is true because it can be logically deduced in material reality. possibility for models built outside of logic exist but they lose out at the current time because they have no proof. again, is there an alternative explanation to what was proposed (won't even use the word model since you're caught up in semantics and diverting the point)

>>52416541
if it's that weak you can refute it quite easily which hasn't been done

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:31:48 2022 No.52416694 >>52416630 I never claimed to deboonk it, I gave Sam Harris' explanation for it. Then you replied by saying there could be some imperceptible force guiding someones will. Truly ground breaking stuff by you, good job

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:33:55 2022 No.52416737

>>52416453
>Say something you mindless subhuman
Please explain it for the niggers in the room. You might be saying something insightful here, but I'm not seeing it
>>52416516
What's your point? What do you mean by isn't described by physics. I see that, but wouldn't that just make it undecideable? If there is no mechanism to verify the statement

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:38:29 2022 No.52416833

>>52416669
>model is true
I observe experience happening. Your model says it isn't. This tells us we know for a fact the model is incomplete. It's mapping a tiny part of reality, the tiny part that is mappable like that.
Instead of facing reality you make the claim that your model is the authoritative truth so things not included in it aren't happening despite clearly observing them happening. Your models have become gods in your mind. You're a religious fanatic.
>>52416694
You parroted an incoherent argument so I gave a similar but actually more coherent one leading to demons being the root cause of all my actions which is how Alexander the Great said it works.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:39:04 2022 No.52416848 File: 1.63 MB, 842x5290, magee - free will.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>52416464

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:47:40 2022 No.52417030 >>52416833 Purely in the context of naming three movies, a demon a more coherent explanation? Why?

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:47:44 2022 No.52417032

>>52416833
i wasn't talking about experience or whatever you pulled out to divert my original question, i was talking about a linear, logical progression from the start of your life and how every event since inception has been a chain reaction. namely, the very basic principle of your own brain not having been programmed by you nor developed by environmental factors in your control, meaning everything you are now is just fallout from that original question instead of you right now existing as a sovereign being in a vacuum separate from the circumstances that got you here in the first place, which it sounds like you believe, which is extremely dishonest if we are using basic logic. unless you have a different explanation regarding that specific point and not swerving around it with abstractions. i never said authoritative truth, i just asked do you have a better explanation that makes more sense, that's all

if your comeback is, i simply think things we cannot prove have greater legitimacy because they just do then that's the end of the argument, because you are all in faith-based and there's nothing else to say there

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:49:01 2022 No.52417061

>>52416737
>What's your point?
You can't build a logical case about the phenomena that's clearly outside physics using physics. The apparent choice is happening in the subjective experience, an area of reality physics doesn't relate to at all. The demand to relate physics to a completely separate issue is a result of being conditioned by the model to see everything through that lens.
You can't prove much about the subject, there's an infinite possible answers. My subjective choice can be rearranging the physical reality back in time based on my choice or whatever. Sounds insane but reality has to be insane and physics is derived from something else, it can't derive everything like the logic used to build physical models. What's really going on is certainly something much more insane than this time travel stuff and probably not describable, it's beyond logic and therefore all models or words, like theologians always said.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:55:27 2022 No.52417183

>>52417032
>every event since inception has been a chain reaction
You really are this brainwashed.
>If I assume determinism is true then determinism is true
Physics is useful and describes something in reality. There are causal chains going on. Physics doesn't account for the experience of free will. Confusing the two like this is, claiming physics speaks on the issue despite not being able to make any logical connection is a central tenet of a new form of American fundamentalist Christianity called "atheism".

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:57:58 2022 No.52417244

>>52417030
>Imagine three movie names, you cant explain why you picked those movies, therefore you are a robot automaton
>you don't know how you work therefore you are a deterministic thing that you could possibly know the full mechanisms behind
Makes no sense at all. Completely incoherent. Abstract forces conspiring is the definition of demons since the Greeks so mine is basically tautological, coherence is not the problem in a tautology.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 01:58:46 2022 No.52417263

>>52417183
i could just as well reply to every one of your points
>If I assume demons are real then demons are real
or
>If I assume physics doesn't account for free will then physics doesn't account for free will
btw

you still haven't answered my q either 5 replies later

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:02:00 2022 No.52417338 >>52416848 I'm a dumb retard NPC, but I think I disagree that moral concepts require freedom

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:02:36 2022 No.52417351

>>52417263
>i could just as well reply to every one of your points
You really, sincerely don't get it even when forcefed like this over and over?
I'm not making circular arguments like you. You can't point at one. You have to lie or abandon all logic. Even the demon point is tautological not circular, as in I give the definition and say since the definitions fits I can use that word to describe it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:03:13 2022 No.52417362 >>52411985 Isn't this the guy that said we should rig elections to make sure Trump doesn't win because Trump is a threat to democracy? Lol.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:05:51 2022 No.52417421 >>52417263 >you still haven't answered my q either 5 replies later I answered 20 questions. You retard said nothing. You can't even reiterate what mind numbing question that I probably already addressed anyway?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:06:33 2022 No.52417434 >>52417244 Leaping to the second conclusion from the first is incoherent, but determinism offers more explanatory value than muh demons

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:06:46 2022 No.52417443 >>52411985 >listening to atheists kek

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:08:03 2022 No.52417469 >>52412561 Doing the lords work anon. Newfags: SBF, Sam Harris, Lex Friedman are all Jews. And Gary gensler while we're at it. Don't trust em, don't listen to em except to do the opposite of what they tell the niggercattle.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:08:31 2022 No.52417479

>>52417351
i asked you a basic question on the level of 2+2 and you call me an idiot and change the topic to something that is besides answering that question, repeated 10x. like i said i can apply the same fallacies as you but what's the point of having a race to see who can gotcha someone with increasing stupidity and greater diversion from the original point. so if you may, do you or do you not have a better explanation to the problem that i've repeated multiple times

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:09:18 2022 No.52417499 >>52417434 You rely purely on emotional triggers like "demons" which is why I use the word. It reveals how completely incapable you are of thinking. I even described it in depth now, you didn't have to go the wiki yet you still just pretend.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:10:25 2022 No.52417530 >>52417479 >a better explanation I addressed this in detail and even gave an example model. You're too brainwashed to grasp anything said to you or even ask for clarification.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:10:40 2022 No.52417535 File: 65 KB, 775x173, Screenshot 2022-11-13 7.09.36 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>52416848 pic related is where he lost me

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:12:39 2022 No.52417576 >>52417499 I know youre not talking about literal demons, but how am I supposed to know which wiki definition to look for, dickhead? LaPlace's demon? Why dont you just explain it for the unwashed masses instead of getting on your high horse?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:15:38 2022 No.52417648 >>52417530 no not really, there wasn't a single post where you addressed it directly and didn't just segue into something totally irrelevant to push whatever you personally believe, still waiting on an answer

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:17:51 2022 No.52417704

>>52417576
>how am I supposed to know
Because I gave the Greek definition in the statement itself. I am actually talking about literal demons. This is how they operate, everyone in history that talks about them uses the same framing established by Aristotle. You're the one constantly confused by pop media memes.
The statement from Sam is so incoherent and pointless that I easily made a better case for framing everything in terms of demonic possession. Instead of acknowledging that the statement you were presenting as useful is retarded you decided to get triggered by the word demon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:19:33 2022 No.52417747 >>52412369 jews

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:20:23 2022 No.52417765

I actually paid for Sam Harris’s waking up app ($99) and I’ll give him credit for introducing me to meditation. But I canceled after reading this thread and realizing I don’t want to learn from an atheist. Another anon got me down mahamudra by Reggie ray and it’s much better. Thanks bros

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:21:40 2022 No.52417788

>>52416669
>if it's that weak you can refute it quite easily which hasn't been done
Sam Harris argues that free will does not exist. His argument is that free will does not always exist, therefore, it does not exist at all. Perhaps some people believe in total free will, but for those of us that believe in partial free will, it is not a refutation at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:21:46 2022 No.52417790 File: 25 KB, 713x611, 1652999574930.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>52411985 >>52412108 >Listening to jews >ever

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:21:54 2022 No.52417795 >>52417704 Youve the one who's been triggered here from the beginning, thats obvious. How is it an incoherent description of the mental experience of rattling off the names of three random trivia facts? How do you experience the process of doing that?

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:23:05 2022 No.52417835

>>52417648
I'm telling you your methods can't describe everything and your replies again and again is "then use my methods to describe the thing".
>My subjective choice can be rearranging the physical reality back in time based on my choice or whatever.
This is an example of an alternative model but still using terms related to physics like time. That's cheating so I don't believe this is happening but remarkably this insane model has more predictive power than yours. You ignore the entire problem of experience itself while this accounts for it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:23:16 2022 No.52417838 File: 145 KB, 825x540, 1666338822136012.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>52417443 >>52417788 >jews >atheist anon, I..

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:25:41 2022 No.52417888 File: 270 KB, 1200x1094, 1EA271E2-CEAC-4937-9795-84A27202C3ED.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:25:57 2022 No.52417896 >>52417795 That I don't know how it works doesn't mean it's mechanical. It actually implies the opposite. So what's the point?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:26:46 2022 No.52417912 this thread is shallow and pedantic

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:28:01 2022 No.52417937 imagine listening to a jew willingly for hours, couldn't be me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:28:12 2022 No.52417943 >>52417912 You will never say anything slightly interesting or insightful in your life. It's determined.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:30:34 2022 No.52417991 >>52417896 >It actually implies the opposite. You just drop a big one liner statement like this and call everyone who doesnt agree or understand an idiot. I have no idea how you arrive to that conclusion but if you want to explain, go ahead.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:30:48 2022 No.52417995 >>52417835 so your refutation this entire time to the problem of causality has been: time travel

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:31:10 2022 No.52418005 >>52411985 No idea who this is but he looks/sounds like he's a faggot

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:34:59 2022 No.52418077

>>52417995
Completely incapable of actually sincerely thinking. How many fucking qualifiers did I give you? Did you really need more?
>I don't believe this is happening
Wasn't enough? You really can't think about any subject? Either I present the absolute authoritative and complete truth right now or some other retarded meme must be true?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:36:45 2022 No.52418116 File: 150 KB, 1920x1080, fgg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>52417943 Perhaps.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:38:47 2022 No.52418148

>>52417991
That's the issue. You're too dumb to say anything. You can't even make queries to clarify because there's no structure to your thoughts. What's been done to your mind triggers me so much.
If I don't know how something works mechanically that implies it's mechanical in nature?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:41:51 2022 No.52418206 >>52418077 wish you'd teach me how to time travel so i could get the hour of my life back spent posting in this thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:41:51 2022 No.52418205 >>52418148 >If I don't know how something works mechanically that implies it's mechanical in nature? You keep putting words in my mouth, twat. I didnt say it implies anything, a mechanical or non mechanical explanation could both be true.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:42:56 2022 No.52418233 >>52411985 >subscribing to neocohen trash in the first place

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:43:18 2022 No.52418239 File: 76 KB, 556x604, 1664923992496503.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>52418005 >but he looks/sounds like a jew

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:44:02 2022 No.52418254 >>52418206 He's a pretentious cunt who LARPs like he's coming here to observe what he views as apes. He's really just doing it to fill the void caused by his small penis.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:45:59 2022 No.52418294 >>52411985 Wow, Jews collude? That's crazy OP, what an incredible discovery.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:48:18 2022 No.52418333 >>52411985 he's a jew. everything he says can be distilled down to is it good for jews and jewish supremacy - he's in favor of it. is it bad for jews and jewish supremacy - he's against it of course hes going to support some jewish crypto scammer

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:48:21 2022 No.52418334 >>52412561 The wikipedia page literally says his mother is Jewish. According to Jewish law, that makes him Jewish even though he claims to not be religious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:48:34 2022 No.52418340 >>52418294 He's a crypto Jew, dont blame me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:49:18 2022 No.52418356 >>52412166 based

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:51:52 2022 No.52418414

>>52418205
I'm asking what you think the point is. How are we addressing anything related to the question of free will / the appearance of choice? I don't know how those movies came to mind, you've not reduced the possibilities at all, it's actually demons.
An explanatory model is always mechanical. It's structured using causal logic. It's a formal tool made by humans representing some underlying properties of reality. It's not the definition of reality. Your ideas are ideas, they don't define phenomena like the appearance of free will out of existence.
>>52418254
Even one slightly interesting insight would prove me completely wrong but you simply can't. Even the insults are copypasta.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:53:29 2022 No.52418454 Sam and Lex really show their true colours at times like these. They are members of the tribe first and foremost.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:58:15 2022 No.52418552 File: 750 KB, 738x736, 1665278827732356.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>52418454 jewrogain is married to a jew as well. literally every 'social commentor/podcaster' is married to one or is themselves one

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:58:29 2022 No.52418557 File: 259 KB, 600x1080, pepe-talking-to-based-department.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>52412166

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 02:59:25 2022 No.52418576 >>52418239 That too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:01:18 2022 No.52418613 >>52411985 harris has always been an idiot he's never been able to explain how beauty can exist without god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQesZ7mkgYE

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:02:54 2022 No.52418638

>>52418414
I'm just looking for the explanation that makes the most sense using common sense. Everything we can observe seems to be following physical laws, so I'm going to assume my mind does too, because it seems to be originating from a physical substance. I don't know why that train of thought triggers you into using your copypasta insults, but go ahead.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:11:26 2022 No.52418809

>>52418638
>I'm just looking for the explanation that makes the most sense using common sense
This isn't logic. It's an appeal to intuition, in your case an intuition completely conditioned by a specific answer.
>Everything we can observe seems to be following physical laws
Absolutely not. Your experience, the observation itself does not obey any physical laws. The rules themselves dictating physical reality can't be defined by the physical interactions dictated by those rules.
"Physical laws" are a human made model of a tiny part of reality that does obey logical causal rules. We know with absolute certainty that you can't describe everything using them because these rules of logic tell us that themselves.
>seems, common sense, assume
Because you're conditioned to use a certain tool you're going to assume everything can be solved using that tool. The assumption isn't based on any sort of logic you can communicate, just the trained intuition. It's classic dogmatic zealotry. Retards will always default to it, pop culture associates it with religious history now but it's just your inherent nature.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:16:46 2022 No.52418917

>>52418638
>common sense
>everything we can observe
LMAO this thread is still alive and you autists are still debating the undebatable.
you are all fags and the only physical substance that seems to be on your mind is sam harris load that obviously has blown your retarded mind!

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:18:44 2022 No.52418961 >>52415198 >Aquinas Summa theologica Quite literally changed my life forever reading this when I was a youtube atheist. Found this book on a book shelf in my house, Aquinas work is gigabrained.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:20:52 2022 No.52419016

>>52418809
>Because you're conditioned to use a certain tool you're going to assume everything can be solved using that tool
I see see you are saying, but it is pointless to argue this. Unless you can come up with a better model of reality pointing it out gives me no further insight than "there is something els at work here" which I already have
>>52418961
Is this some Catholic kikestry? I'll look into it but I suspect it won't be as insightful as you altar boys claim

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:23:21 2022 No.52419063 >>52419016 >I'll look into it but I suspect it won't be as insightful as you altar boys claim You'll be happy you did. There isnt a whiff od judaism in Aquinas work.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:25:21 2022 No.52419097 He's a midwit among true intellectuals, never rated him. Unironically Peterson is far more intelligent and insightful than this le science! cunt when it comes to popular big brains

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:47:06 2022 No.52419487 dude studied english literature and didn't even graduate because he got high on LSD. Why the fuck should i listen to this man on matters of logic and metaphysics?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:52:11 2022 No.52419590 >>52411985 (((Sam Harris)))

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:53:17 2022 No.52419617

>>52418809
Maybe it is a stupid explanation. My problem with you is your desire to denounce anyone that wants to use it as the mental model they hold to make sense of things a retarded zealot. You can't blame people for wanting to hold a belief, and you cant assume that they are pronouncing it as infallible truth just for holding it. Most people dont hold beliefs with zealotry, they just want to have an idea of how things work without reading a 2,000 analysis of Emmanuel Kant or something.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:55:40 2022 No.52419671 >>52412108 what a joyless existence a man must lead when he denies himself his only fundamental right that of agency

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:58:13 2022 No.52419719 >>52419671 at what point do you draw the line between agency and subconscious driven will?

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 03:59:39 2022 No.52419748

>>52418638
free will may be an illusion, but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist if it is inherent to experience.
theres also the chance of higher planes of non material existence. while it probably wouldnt deny determinism it would complicate a purely materialistic model of thr universe

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:01:44 2022 No.52419784 >>52419719 somewhere between a horsefly on shit and an enlightened Buddhist monk

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:04:40 2022 No.52419838 >>52411985 jews talking up other jews. many suck cases

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:04:49 2022 No.52419843 >>52419784 I mean in yourself, we all have thoughts and desires [which we act on, so they are will] that we cannot control. Where do you draw the line

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:05:04 2022 No.52419851 >>52411985 (((Sam Harris)))

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:07:26 2022 No.52419883 >>52412237 You can't quantize gravity in terms of units of energy or matter, midwit. Why? Because gravity is not only field in space/time, it is bent space/time. Information is more fundamental than space/time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:09:51 2022 No.52419911 >>52411985 Just figuring this out about Harris?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:10:37 2022 No.52419923 >>52419911 You could say I'm (((Waking Up)))

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:11:03 2022 No.52419927

>>52419843
there is zero reason to assume that one’s will from abstract thought needs to be separated from one’s basic will to eat, procreate, survive. they are the same thing, so not identifying with those things is the point, not drawing some imaginary mathematical line where one feels sufficient rationalization of their base desires

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:13:59 2022 No.52419978
File: 389 KB, 1018x1664, The-Gnostic-Cosmos.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>52412166
(((materialists))) control this world. to not engage in it is to transcend the current world. Call it demiurge if you like. doesn't really 'MATTER'.
Real question is...why is this being discussed in /biz/? a materialist board.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:19:14 2022 No.52420074

>>52419927
>there is zero reason to assume that one’s will from abstract thought needs to be separated from one’s basic will to eat, procreate, survive
I'm not exactly sure what you mean, but I think you can separate choices that are difficult from those that are easy

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:37:26 2022 No.52420408

>>52411985
he's a jewish midwit who was astroturfed due to being jewish and happening to be around Hitchens back in the day
he literally tells the goyim free will isn't real with convoluted deconstructionist bullshit that's easily destroyed with simple logic
It's unfortunate they rule over us and we have to pretend this is some kind of person worth listening to

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:38:18 2022 No.52420421 >>52412160 this

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:39:29 2022 No.52420446

>>52419016
>pointing it out gives me no further insight
It does. Thinking you can model everything is a worse model of reality. Theologians through history had better points, observations that give better insight into how weird the world is. They actually thought about the subject unlike modern propagandists.
>>52419617
The conditioned zealotry causes you to be unable to even imagine alternatives. We have no idea how reality works, we only have flawed models of limited aspects of it. Wishing you were omniscient doesn't help. What you wish you could know is irrelevant.
Normally in science models are judged by their usefulness, how much of what we observe they predict. By that metric even the time travel bullshit I presented is a better model of reality than anything modern materialists present.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:39:30 2022 No.52420447 >>52420408 >that's easily destroyed with simple logic share it

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:43:04 2022 No.52420509 >>52420447 Do you understand that Truth is a real, objective, transcendent aspect of reality? That's where you need to start.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:43:05 2022 No.52420510 >>52412522 You're a fucking moron.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:44:10 2022 No.52420530

>>52420446
>Normally in science models are judged by their usefulness, how much of what we observe they predict. By that metric even the time travel bullshit I presented is a better model of reality than anything modern materialists present.
I'd say furthering knowledge of how the brain works will increase explanatory power. Maybe I (like most people I'd imagine) prefer a materialist explanation. It's not necessarily brainwashing, people probably tend to naturally skew towards different ways of seeing things

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:44:52 2022 No.52420547 >>52411985 >ever thinking a pop science author actually knows anything to begin with

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:45:31 2022 No.52420554

>>52420446
Entities with subjectivity are still formed out of physical components. The nature of the choice as it appears to you is explainable only within your subjective model, but the existence of the choice is something to which physical models can be applied, because the mechanism which carries out the choice is ultimately made of matter. All your internal subjectivity is doing is contextualizing the actions your form is carrying out in the illusion of a choice.
>but reality has to be insane
Not really. The explanation I gave is perfectly sane.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:46:00 2022 No.52420564 >>52420530 Pretending phenomena that don't fit your models don't exist won't further knowledge about anything. Undermining history by spreading atheist memes won't further knowledge about anything.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:48:56 2022 No.52420612

>>52420564
This degree of skepticism doesn't actually replace our means of acquiring information with something new and more reliable. It only exists to say that we can't be truly sure of anything, which is fine, but practically speaking, we have to use our limited logic to probe the world around us, and the results of that probing support determinism.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:51:33 2022 No.52420649
File: 98 KB, 635x1280, IMG_20221113_224844_875.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>52411985
That's all I needed to hear. His meditations kind of piss me off. His voice, etc. Hearing that he voted for Biden like a god damn nigger made me stop using the app at all. I decided to ask for a refund when I saw this thread and they gave it to my right away.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:52:49 2022 No.52420666

>>52420554
You're not explaining anything or presenting any logic. The premise leading you to the conclusion that the world is deterministic is that the world is deterministic.
You're repeating your dogma religious dogma over and over with no hint of justification at all.
>>52420612
That limited logic demands we can't model everything. Logic demands there is more than causal logic which means more than determinism. You're experiencing phenomena beyond it right now but demand we defer to something saying your entire experience doesn't exist. Physics models aren't reality. You're a brainwashed retard, exactly like the religious zealots of the past.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:52:50 2022 No.52420668 >>52420649 LoL. You can get the app for free if you ask nicely

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:54:43 2022 No.52420695 >>52420612 That you think this is about "skepticism" instead of basic logic is another demonstration of your world ending retardation. You retards will kill us all. Everything you touch will and has been reliably turning to shit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:54:43 2022 No.52420696 >>52420612 quantum mechanics seems to suggest a fundamental lack of determinism. hows that for probing?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:55:44 2022 No.52420705 >>52420696 QM like any coherent description of anything obeys causal logic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:56:46 2022 No.52420717 >>52420695 I don't think there's any point in continuing this conversation, if you want to recommend some books that you find useful I'll check them out.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:59:01 2022 No.52420738

>>52420668
Honestly it was a mistake to fall for the "guided meditation" scam anyways. I tried headspace and waking up. Both of them literally just piss me off listening to these faggots unload their hippie bullshit. Instead of that homo shit I just use Insight Timer now. Way better and free
this is my morning routine now.

1. Wake up. Don't touch phone

2. 3 rounds of wim hof breathing still in bed

3. Set insight timer for 10 minutes. Chimes go off every 2 min interval to remind me to concentrate on breath and not let mind wander

Then begin day. Fuck these guided meditation niggers. They are grifting charlatans kikes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 04:59:06 2022 No.52420740 >>52420696 The determinism creeps back in at scale. 6 trillion coin tosses are going to be perfectly deterministic

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:02:31 2022 No.52420789

Determinism is for fucking losers. Even if it's true, the best life you can have is to BELIEVE that it's not real, and take destiny into your own hands to live a better life. If you believe "oh gee golly gosh everything just sorta happens and there's nothing I can do" then you are literally going to be a cucked faggot. It's the same thing as believing that "depression" is a real thing. It will get.you nowhere and it's a copout for being a literal fucking loser.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:03:23 2022 No.52420803 >>52412166 Based, look at the redditors seeth in response to the truth

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:03:26 2022 No.52420804 >>52420738 Some anon earlier recommended "mahamudra by Reggie ray"

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:04:39 2022 No.52420823

>>52420717
Just fucking think. Stop allowing yourself to be conditioned by bullshit memes, propaganda and literal demons like control Sam. Since you apparently never heard this basic shit before you would be physically unable to grasp any of this anyway unless you think about it for like two weeks. That's how the brain physically, deterministically works according to the mainstream models you love.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:05:05 2022 No.52420827 >>52420789 Some don't find it acceptable to lie to themselves to be happy, but most people seem to be okay with being Cypher because it gives them good feelies

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:05:10 2022 No.52420828 >>52420705 supposedly, in principle. but quantum causality is all kinds of fucked up and even backward

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:06:29 2022 No.52420845 >>52411985 >jews promoting other jew SHOCKING

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:06:50 2022 No.52420850 >>52415409 >free willy >good will hunting >willy Wonka Next

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:08:32 2022 No.52420876

>>52420789
I honestly don't understand why you people look for outside of determinism. What would a non-deterministic world even look like? Arbitrarily random and non-sensical? How would that be any better than ordered causality? You come across as incoherent, stuck up in a self-consciousness loop of not being able to comprehend itself.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:08:42 2022 No.52420877 >>52420740 so philosophically can this be applied to individuals? it all depends on what the fundamental scale is

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:08:54 2022 No.52420881

>>52416341
>Unless of course free will lies beyond the purview of physics, but we have no reason to believe so
You have no reason to believe so yet you also have no scientific evidence to support such a belief.
Ironic you have faith in this idea without any evidence and likely fancy yourself some scientifically-minded genius

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:09:49 2022 No.52420889

>>52420823
Regardless of me being supposedly "conditioned by bullshit memes, propaganda", I think I would've arrived at this conclusion without any import of materialism. Once I became aware of it, the idea of free will never meshed with my subjective experience. This was as a young kid, before I got exposed to any "brainwashing". The idea that if I just "did things differently" never sat with me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:09:51 2022 No.52420891 >>52420877 What do you mean? An individual is a macro-structure and therefore perfectly deterministic.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:10:09 2022 No.52420894

>>52420828
Doesn't matter if it's backwards in time or a statistical distribution or whatever, the logic is still obeying the same basic structure of if x then y. Any coherent description of anything has to rely on this sort of causal structure or it's not a description, explanation or model.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:10:42 2022 No.52420902 >>52420891 are you completely sure about that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:11:24 2022 No.52420909 >>52420902 There are always infinitesimal chances but they would require freak flukes of probability

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:12:42 2022 No.52420932 Liking Sam Harris is a good criteria to not get into business with someone, you know they'll be insufferable and not nearly as good at their job as they think they are.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:13:37 2022 No.52420944

>>52420889
That it's unintuitve is an argument to explore it further. Your answer is what someone gives when the rules of reality demand something is true but you find it uncomfortable. You're appealing to your conditioned intuition with no attempt to justify it at all. You never could have done anything differently because you don't know how to evaluate anything. You just follow the programming mindlessly. Formal thinking is completely alien yet you're part of the group that pretends it's all about exactly that. It's complete and utter subversion. You're demonic.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:13:46 2022 No.52420948 >>52417912 It's a thread about Sam Harris so that's appropriate.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:14:57 2022 No.52420966

>>52420823
And since my thought has clearly (to you) lead my down the path of retardation, I think I'll need outside help. Someone posted Kant earlier, and it sounds sort of similar to what you've been saying, so I guess I'll start there, although I doubt I'll be able to get through a 1000+ page treatise on abstract philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:16:16 2022 No.52420977 >>52420554 >Entities with subjectivity are still formed out of physical components. Proof?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:17:09 2022 No.52420985 >>52420944 Yeah, like I've been saying, I never claimed to be a "formal" thinker. Am I not allowed to muse about philosophy? This has no impact on the world, but you're acting like I eat babies.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:18:23 2022 No.52421005 >>52420966 >its too hard for me to read This is why we make fun of and look down on Sam Harris fans.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:19:46 2022 No.52421027 >>52421005 As far as I know Kant's books are notoriously dense and hard to grasp, but I'm sure you've read all of them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:19:55 2022 No.52421030 >>52420909 are you even sure about that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:20:00 2022 No.52421031 >>52420985 Smart people get angry when they see someone spewing psuedointellectual garbage to promote themselves.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:20:12 2022 No.52421032

>>52420889
A deterministic world does not strip you of free will, although I think your problem, much like every other modernite is a fundamental misunderstanding of the word "free" and "freedom" and what most of humanity throughout the ages has meant when it has spoken those. How about you answer this: how would a non-deterministic aka random "will" be freer?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:21:06 2022 No.52421037 >>52421031 >people aren't allowed to discuss things You're the pretentious twats here who are trying to gatekeep everything and accuse everyone, fuck off already.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:21:24 2022 No.52421040 >>52420894 https://physicsworld.com/a/quantum-mechanics-defies-causal-order-experiment-confirms/#:~:text=In%20classical%20physics%20%E2%80%93%20and%20everyday,affect%20the%20outcome%20of%20A. maybe not

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:21:31 2022 No.52421041 >>52421030 reasonably yes

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:21:44 2022 No.52421044 >>52421030 He's very sure about a lot of things that he hasn't thought much about. He read a few science textbooks and now all of the secrets of the universe are open to him.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:22:07 2022 No.52421048 >>52411985 >trusting grifters retards

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:22:45 2022 No.52421054 >>52421037 Its good to gatekeep mediocre content because otherwise the board turns into Facebook and Reddit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:23:04 2022 No.52421059 >>52421041 cute opinion

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:23:19 2022 No.52421064 >>52421059 gay wording

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:23:50 2022 No.52421069 >>52421041 Why are you sure about that

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:24:39 2022 No.52421082 >>52421069 about what specifically? I have said a lot of things?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:25:02 2022 No.52421087 daily reminder that science is philosophically not equipped to deal with subjectivity and anyone who says otherwise is trying to rip you off or oppress you

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:26:03 2022 No.52421097

>>52420966
Reading won't help if you refuse to think. It will all be meaningless.
Like how this guy "reads":
>>52421040
You're replying to a post that explicitly addressed backwards temporal causality. It's not new, to physics or me. A description of an event with a backwards temporal causality is a logical structure you can replicate in computers. It obeys logical cause and effect.
>>52420985
>you're acting like I eat babies.
Way worse, you embodied the demon of atheism here today. You represent a force that kills millions of babies and will end humanity.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:26:04 2022 No.52421098

>>52420977
>>Entities with subjectivity are still formed out of physical components.
>Proof?

We have proof of objects without subjectivity, and objects with subjectivity, but no proof of subjectivities without form. So the notion that subjectivity arises from a certain kind of physical arrangement seems most plausible.

>Its good to gatekeep
Then try doing it without coming off like an obnoxious twat.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:26:06 2022 No.52421102 >>52421082 you don't even know what you're sure about? why would you say you were sure? is it because you're actually a fucking retarded nigger?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:27:38 2022 No.52421116 >>52421102 drop the shit sophistry. I've put my takes on the table and you've done nothing but dance around like a know it all faggot

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:27:49 2022 No.52421118 >>52421098 Incorrect, we have no proof of non subjective objects. Try again.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:28:54 2022 No.52421130 >>52421116 You're just saying you're sure about things for no reason. Cool opinion faggot, no one cares.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:30:11 2022 No.52421148 >>52412468 kek, does anyone have the screenshot of his followup tweet of him committing talmudic wizardry to explain that part of the interview, lol?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:32:30 2022 No.52421176 >>52418809 >We know with absolute certainty that you can't describe everything using them because these rules of logic tell us that themselves. (someone) Explain this please

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:34:22 2022 No.52421192 >>52421130 I am sure that the macro-world we inhabit is deterministic? Yeah, it quite self-evidently is, and this has been known since the dawn of time. Can you describe what a non-deterministic world would look like?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:35:04 2022 No.52421202 >>52421176 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:37:23 2022 No.52421229 >>52421097 like i said, its causality in principle, but not any kind of classical causality. under this umbrella even free will is causality

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:38:33 2022 No.52421242 >>52421192 >it quite self-evidently is Obviously it's not if we're having this debate midwit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:39:29 2022 No.52421252 >>52421242 Obviously it is or we wouldn't be here to have it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:40:11 2022 No.52421262 >>52411985 jews all.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:43:33 2022 No.52421295

>>52421176
Can you imagine a world where the rules of logic are defined by the rules of logic? Can you define a logical system, like a computer program that itself contains all its own prerequisites to run? It's circular nonsense. Logic demands there is more than logic.
The limitations of logic are very clear to anyone that grasps the basics. The formal proofs do exist but are not intuitive.
>>52421229
>under this umbrella even free will is causality
Not if subjective experience is beyond logic, coherence and causality like the Bible, Aristotle and all those guys who originated our ideas about free will talked about.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:43:59 2022 No.52421302 >>52421118 We have no proof of it having any subjectivity. Onus of evidence and all that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:45:10 2022 No.52421312 >god is.... LE NOT REAL

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:46:42 2022 No.52421334 >>52421295 Logic describes existence, it does not run it. Why should this be taken as a given?

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:52:10 2022 No.52421407

>>52421334
What is taken as given? How did the demons destroy your brain so utterly?
The conclusions logic, the only tool we have to describe anything and you retards were until now appealing to as authoritative demands that not everything can be described. Logic does in fact not run reality, it's a human tool that models the subset of reality that is causally coherent.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:52:22 2022 No.52421411

If free will were real, wouldn't it be possible, at least in principle, to observe the point of interaction with the physical systems of our body? I mean it has to be influencing the material universe for it to have an observable affect in the physical universe, right? So shouldn't we be looking for things like that? Events that occur without any obvious physical cause?

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:52:40 2022 No.52421417

>>52421295
What do you think the future of neuroscience will be like in 1000 years? 10,000 years? You might have addressed this earlier, but do you think a materialist explanation is impossible? If at some point in the future, someone said they had one, what would your reaction be?

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:55:12 2022 No.52421445 [DELETED]

>https://singularityhub.com/2022/10/25/could-consciousness-be-a-memory-system-new-theory-says-yes/

>In a nutshell: at its core, consciousness evolved as a memory system. It helps us remember the events of our lives—the whens, wheres, whats, and whos—which in turn can help us creatively and flexibly recombine them to predict or imagine alternative possibilities.

>It gets more mind-bending. Rather than perceiving the world in real time, we’re actually experiencing a memory of that perception. That is, our unconscious minds filter and process the world under the hood, and often make split-second decisions. When we become aware of those perceptions and decisions—that is, once they’ve risen to the level of consciousness—we’re actually experiencing “memories of those unconscious decisions and actions,” the authors explained.

https://journals.lww.com/cogbehavneurol/Fulltext/9900/Consciousness_as_a_Memory_System.19.aspx

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:55:48 2022 No.52421456 >>52421407 Not everything can be proved, not described. Pay more attention to your wording. A mathematical proof and a mathematical model of reality are two very different things and the latter is certainly not constrained as you say.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:55:59 2022 No.52421459

>>52421417
Any real model of qualia is impossible and will likely be logically proven as impossible. I think it's universal, a fundamental part of reality with no location or time, that really is the simplest assumption. This phenomena is then modulated by brains to form perceived identities around memories.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 05:57:56 2022 No.52421485 >>52421456 You have no clue retard. I mean described not proven. Any description that has any use obeys the basics of logic and part of reality has to be outside logic for logic to logically exist. It can't be described.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:00:06 2022 No.52421506 >>52421485 there is zero reason to assume this. you're doing this because muh computers. there's zero reason for me to accept the analogy of existence as just like the computer in front of me.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:04:43 2022 No.52421567

>>52421506
>there is zero reason to assume this.
There's no fucking assumption in that post retard.
Suddenly basic logic doesn't matter anymore because it leads to conclusions you don't like? Where is the exception? Why can't you say anything even slightly interesting you subhuman piece of shit?
Computers are physical implementations of logical systems. Logic isn't valid because muh computers but computers are a good way for retards like you to understand the basics.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:11:29 2022 No.52421647 >>52421567 Kek, you're really going off on him.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:13:13 2022 No.52421665

>>52421567
It's a garbage analogy for the conclusions you're trying to force. To say that existence is an implementation of a logical system is a giant assumption. I hope the irony is not lost on you that for someone on a crusade against determinism you're going through hoops to invent these causal relations.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:18:36 2022 No.52421726

>>52421665
>To say that existence is an implementation of a logical system is a giant assumption.
Is the opposite of what I'm saying. What is wrong with you retards? Seriously?
Our coherent descriptions need to obey logic, it's what makes them coherent and useful. This means logic demands we can't describe parts of reality.
I'm on a crusade against retardation. If you could simply say anything even slightly coherent or something that demonstrate the slightest hint of thought you would get a different reaction. I'm not triggered by any specific conclusion but the utter destruction of reason the cult of "atheism" has spread.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:23:29 2022 No.52421777 >>52411985 You went to a podcaster to have your intellectualism talked at you, shit which he regurgitated into your ears which you could have read for yourself. By default, that makes you dumb.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:24:47 2022 No.52421794 >>52421726 >I'm not triggered by any specific conclusion but the utter destruction of reason the cult of "atheism" has spread. I'm surprised you don't at least believe in theological determinism then

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:30:38 2022 No.52421878 >>52411985 >>52412064 he is a jew

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:31:39 2022 No.52421887 >>52412365 >hatred for Islam HE IS JEWISH

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:32:05 2022 No.52421889

>>52421726
There is not a single logical axiom that I know of that says you can't describe parts of reality. This is an invention of yours. It might not even be wrong, but it's simply unfounded. Godel's incompleteness theorem says nothing of the sort, mathematical models of reality are not conjectures to be proven, they are only descriptions that must conform to observations and have predictive power. This empirical reality cannot be separated from logic or be made subordinate to it. The attempt to do so is a very causal mindset. There is no need for that to be the case in a non-deterministic world. Remember, a non-deterministic world does not have an ordered causal structure.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:33:28 2022 No.52421906 >>52421887 Islam is a gutter religion a literal death cult, demonic, evil.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:34:43 2022 No.52421918 >>52421906 it's certainly not a death cult.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:38:48 2022 No.52421977 >>52421918 oh okay ill simply ignore all evidence and take your word for it just a coincidence they yell allah akbar before doing a suicide bombing ha ha

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:39:40 2022 No.52421991 >>52411985 Another leftist deranged by Trump. Sad.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:39:55 2022 No.52421995 >>52411985 >this midwit has no fucking clue about anything If you didn't understand this point by like 2013 or so, it's you who is the midwit, anon

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:40:55 2022 No.52422004

>>52412166
If you believe that reality is governed by laws then you are by definition a determinist. If its not goverened by laws then there is fundamentally randomness at the core. If the core of reality is random then how the fuck can we conceive of logic. Believing that there are laws - aka - a determined reality doesnt make it feel and less like free will is an illusion, even if it is.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:41:25 2022 No.52422011

>>52421977
Death is often the undesired consequence of the pursuit of virtue. You might not agree with their virtue but to call it a death cult is retarded. These religions are very adamantly against death chasing. In Christianity at least it's one of the gravest sins.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:45:24 2022 No.52422077

>>52421794
I don't post based on "belief". I can argue for or against anything you want. The point is to fucking think and work based on formal rigid logic that you can justify and reproduce instead of purely vague intuition that can be easily manipulated by demon possessed propagandists like Sam. Why do you have to murder so many babies all the time?
>>52421889
>I never read about this laid out and spoonfed to me like this by my favorite influencers so I will refuse to even try to actually think
That models and descriptions don't need to be proven is irrelevant. Any coherent description is equivalent to a logical model. It has at least supposed predictive power, it's a description of some kind of causal relationship or it's not a description at all. All you have to do to definitely prove me wrong is present even one counter example where you describe something without using causal relationships. Axioms leading to conclusions are a form of causal relationship.
>This empirical reality cannot be separated from logic or be made subordinate to it. The attempt to do so is a very causal mindset. There is no need for that to be the case in a non-deterministic world. Remember, a non-deterministic world does not have an ordered causal structure.
This is pure horseshit. Nobody on the planet would read that in the given context and parse any information from it. If there's no causal structure I can't describe the thing. There are no "why" questions to answer, nothing to say.

It blows my mind every time that there are millions of retards exactly like you in the world and thousands posting on these boards. All the same programming, no deviation at all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:47:11 2022 No.52422104 >>52422004 >then there is fundamentally randomness at the core Nope. Randomness is something you can conceive of in place of laws but what you can conceive of does not limit reality.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:53:06 2022 No.52422196 >>52412166 I’m materialist but not a determinist. Matter can have free will of the kinds worth having.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:55:24 2022 No.52422227 >>52416341 His retarded argument is that the laws of physics somehow precludes a chess computer from picking the best option that conforms to the rules of chess.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 06:56:36 2022 No.52422247 >>52422011 your virtue is killing the nonbelievers like i said, disgusting gutter religion that belongs in medieval times

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 07:01:24 2022 No.52422326

>>52422077
At this point point you're gonna have to elaborate further because I have no idea what you're saying or even trying to prove anymore. It strikes me that you might be one of those autistics who starts splitting hair over semantic nuances, so I'll point out that my view of the world is one non-deterministic foundations out of which a statistical determinism emerges, although I am aware of those who believe in superdeterminism and am open to that idea as well. Beyond that the causality of the so called rules of physics is another matter that has nothing to do with this thread, but I am not convinced that it might not ultimately have a similar structure as well.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 07:03:16 2022 No.52422355 >>52422247 I am pretty sure their virtue is serving the divine order of the universe, and righteously warring against those who stand in its way

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 07:15:06 2022 No.52422529

>>52422104
there isnt much of a way to discuss anything about philosophy if you cant even agree on a basic starting point. you cant get more fundamental than the concept that reality is governed my a set of forces acting within some framework of laws. i would argue that the laws of nature must follow a logical set of rules in order for life forms to come into existence that are able to conceive of logic and thus determine the concept of laws in order to learn more about the nature of reality. free will feels real, even if at the lowest layer of reality there is just a complex set of dominos falling, and everything is already preset.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 07:17:18 2022 No.52422563

>>52422326
The main point is people infected with the atheist mind virus need rehabilitation.
>non-deterministic foundation
Which is a non causal cause and a breakdown of logic, the thing I'm arguing for. Historically scholars would call that God.
You can directly observe a phenomena that behaves the same way, the qualia in which your apparent will is expressed. Life and consciousness comes before time and space, those are there to serve life which is why you won't find alien life in this space.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 07:20:13 2022 No.52422596

>>52422529
>. you cant get more fundamental than the concept that reality is governed my a set of forces acting within some framework of laws
Can you consider the possibility that this may be insane modern atheist dogma that murders babies? You have no real reason to believe this, it's just something you would like to be true.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 07:37:16 2022 No.52422812

>>52422563
Again, "breakdown of logic" is a big and unfounded term to throw out. Nothing ever breaks down other than the models we clumsily stitch together to explain reality. If you wanna call that god then go ahead, the problem is that the god of the historical scholars is something extremely specific and human oriented, much different from arbitrary events happening outside of your lightcone. Conscience is certainly a peculiar phenomenon, if for no other reason because of its role as an anthropic principle filter, which is why there are no aliens and we're probably living in peak civilization.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 07:37:27 2022 No.52422817

>>52422596
not sure how believing in logic leads inevitably to slaughtering babies. my view of reality leaves room for morality and love being fundamentally part of reality. as well as there existing higher powers. im just saying that whatever does exist there must be some laws governing the function.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 07:38:22 2022 No.52422837 >>52412160 literally this simple

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 08:20:14 2022 No.52423346

>>52422812
>you wanna call that god then go ahead
It's not about what I want but the history of the terms and analysis of these ideas.
>the problem
Is that you're a retard, unable to think. Even barely mentioning terms like "god" cause these predictable rants about how little you know.
>breakdown of logic
Is exactly what we're fucking talking about.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 08:22:54 2022 No.52423380 >>52411985 he's a bullshitting heeb and even his phd thesis is bullshit woe to any nation that considers scam artists like this kike an "intellectual"

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 08:24:06 2022 No.52423388 Materialists are mentally stunted. The NPC meme is real but it only applies to people who think their thoughts are not their own.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 08:29:28 2022 No.52423445

>>52422817
Believing you can model/describe everything is the kind of arrogance that leads to a fall. It's also logically impossible. The same rules you're appealing to say there has to be something external to those coherent rules dictating them. The rules can't define themselves and also be conceivable to our minds.
We material creatures are subject to laws but the idea is omnipotence isn't, it's omnipotent. In the more anthropomorphic conceptions it dictates the laws based on pure conscious will, the thing more fundamental than language/logic in our immediate experience.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 08:32:41 2022 No.52423478 >>52412283 I have to believe in free will, I have no choice.

Anonymous Mon Nov 14 08:39:44 2022 No.52423556

>>52416341
>previous conditions determine future ones just as a ball is forced to go from point a to point b given the right force, it has no choice
Reality is fundamentally quantum and randomness is inherent and inescapable, you determinist bitch.
>Qualia is real, Christ is king.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 14 09:07:52 2022 No.52423842 >>52411985 lol this dude popped moly and thinks he's some enlightened guru. imagine falling for the Sam Harris shill

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