There where no eThEreUmMaXis, just us greedy newfags vs common sense and experience>ETH is first self sustainable chain (currently deflationary, but what's more important not overpaying for security like BTC or inflating and dumping on users because not sustainable like every other L1)>only decentralization focused l1>EVM is only thing that is standard in this shitshow>devs just attracted to ETH like flies>every 0 to 1 idea born on ETH>dexes like UNI are clearly future after FTX shitshow>on chain lending/borrowing like AAVE is clearly future after Celsius shitshow>Every problem they have (and there are many) they tackle in public and transparent way, everyone is included and welcomed to build, huge difference from following alt l1 cult of personalitys empty promises and praying they deliver >only real pos downside is shitty distribution -offseted by 6y of mining DESU when I do deep introspect I just wanted to be first and smartest guy in the room for once but part of self growth (and hopefully making money later) is admitting I was wrong.Took me 2y to finally see light, don't know how you 5+y fags still here and blind, swapped all in ETH, will learn how to build validators, and dca in every major dip in years to comeU can start your standard ETH is myspace X is facebook shit fiesta now (used to do that to), when you realize you are wrong see you on other side.
na, its still spaghetti code and likely to be replaced down the road and when some new cycle arises there are 1000s that will drain eths liquidity and users and only chainlink will profit of it. But for the time being eth is more deflationary than btc
>>52339388spaghetti code and likely to be replaced down the road is argument used for 2 cycles now brother.I can tell you are not ready to open your mind for truth yet
>>52339388There are banks running 60 yo spaghetti code. I doubt Ethereum's codebase is that bad.
As a fan of spaghetti, I guess I'm sold. Lets pump ETH
>>52339744Its not, the deeper you dive the more you see how wrong every generic fud for years isGeth IS spaghetti code, but Erigon and new execution clients are 10x better +consensus ones like prysm are mint and built from scratch.What brings me to other point its only chain (I know of) with multiclient approach meaning if 1 client fails chain keeps on chugging.Shit like this not being discussed on biz but shit like "spaghetti code" thrown around gaslighted me for so longPretty sure biz sucks as informational hub kek
>>52339279Bitcoin is too entrenched to be replaced by Ethereum. It's the big daddy creator of them all. The name is forever in the mind of the normie like iWhatever and .com. Besides that it's now used by governments.Ethereum is the first practical implementation of a smartchain so it is also entrenched. It is now the biggest PoS chain. Bitcoin could never challenge Ethereum by updating its code.These two freaks are forever married to one another like gay lovers and I'm sure we all can agree Ethereum is the twink
>>52339982/biz/ is a meme hub, nothing more. I just come here to see what colour jaks are being posted.
>>52340134Kinda agree BTC is meme forever inscribed in minds of people at this point and brand that will never die.But that was not a point I actually didn't bashed BTC...I do think ETH outperforms and flips eventually, this is first bear market where it already outperforms from what I can tell.
>>52340526if meth heads find a way to keep usage high and increase deflation, it eventually will, but the competition is not sleeping
>>52340630They already have l2s will just timestamp enough eth on l1 to keep it permanently deflated.My problem with competition is after 2y of dabbling on xyz chain is:>its all EVM anyway>its all black box of development ("trust us we will deliver") while ETH got real crypto ethos approach ("hers issue all welcome to build it")>I just don't see any 10x innovation over ETH only marketing pitchesI don't think L1s will die, there will always be newfags faling for new shills and lowcap l1s outperforming, but after years I'm ok whit ETH being best r/r hold.Bonus is I can participate, run validator and get that sweet yield.
>>52340881even btc has started to look into layer 2 smart contract chains, I dont expect maxis to ever get their ass up, but at least eth fags are working. I have to agree with your OP, for some weird reason that chain draws devs like a candle draws moths.non is going to dieat its core eth due to its open approach is a perfectly substituable good
>>52339279I agree that eth is not going anywhere and that it has a lead in smart contracts that is not gonna be passed any time soon, but that doesn't change the fact that I fucking hate that chain, its coin and vitalik himself and will not support their ecosystem even for a second. I'll happily stay on the outside even as you all make money.
>There where no eThEreUmMaXis, just us greedy newfags vs common sense and experienceof course altmaxis exist, its just you have to be delusional to be an altmaxi because you need severe cognitive dissonance to believe one alt out of thousands is special, but that the only unique asset in this space, bitcoin, isn't.didn't read the rest of your long, feminine post.
>>52341599ExaclyIts not ethfags big plan, I think its just nature of competitive market makes ETH promise land for devs, something like Murica during colonization.1 thing fag Vitalik did so RIGHT is made chain open for everyone (went so far to dress like tranny and signal to everyone they are not weirdest person in the room) so we have like 10+ real scaling teams, 6+6 client teams, and 1232131 daap teams.Bitcoin community just shot themselves in foot because they went all PTSD after block wars and had only one consensus over "right" way to scale and ended up with overengineered payment channel lightning.In contrast competitive dev market of ETH made same tech (Raiden lol) obsolete in 1 year, went for plasma (dead end) and than from plasma discovered optimistic and than endgame of zk rollups.Irony is rollups only need decentralized chain to settle and even bigger irony is btc is still most decentralized chain while eth just second so btc can leach from all eth research but they don't want to have discussion of opening opcodes for starks etc....Think it just boils down to open approach and building as you say, eth went from rightfully criticized as "no monetary policy" to combination of perfect algorithmic monetary policy (1559+pos) where they don't overpay for security and still have clear monetary guaranties while everyone (including me back in the day fudded them)In meantime BTC guys are still in "but energy=value mental gymnastic loops".I do think BTC is huge invention and indestructible brand value but turns out community of builders>community of shizo bagholders....
>>52341599whats funny is if the midwit ethmaxi arguments magically become true, and bitcoin can't supplement enough fees via l2s for security, then eth dies in the same way when everything but settlement happens on l2 networks.the fate of bitcoin and ethereum are identical in regards to the transition to layer 2 networks for both security, value, and scalability. either it works or it doesn't work at all.
>>52339279Centralized garbage chain. If the government says "jump" Vitalik will only ask "how high?". Only serfs buy this.
>>52342139I agree on the btc take, but maybe some rethink and open up, which would make competition more interesting, but yeah, eth marketed itself well to be the dev hub, no matter how much of a freak you are. We see where it goes, nothing is written in stone>>52342169you can always change the code if consensus is reached
>>52339744>There are banks running 60 yo spaghetti codenot only banks but also large corporations I believe with time they will come to realize the edge most enterprise blockchains, like Geeq and others, have. Most spaghetti code is replaceable over time. Some don't even have a well structured hub-and-spoke model.
>>52342169>whats funny is if the midwit ethmaxi arguments magically become true, and bitcoin can't supplement enough fees via l2s for security, then eth dies in the same way when everything but settlement happens on l2 networks.L2s actually pay to l1 for security so that docent standhttps://ultrasound.money/#join-the-senpaiLook burn lb and how much gas are OP and ARB guzzling allready in apha and beta now imagine when they are done and add 5 more l2s Zksync,Stark, scroll and so on...More usage of l2 more sustainable eth and eth becomes just settlement layer selling security.Not sure LN can support BTC even if whole world uses it, and while we are at it its alarming none wants to discuss how halvingss are security bombs if there is no solution to no more rewards issue ("its in 10y bruw").But i don't think btc haves to fix anything it can have huge value as bar of gold or hi valuable nft (what at its core it actually is -valuable collectable), post was more related to my experience and revelations about l1s and smartcontracts after jearking 2y on l1 chains
>>52340134The contract is absolutely right. The purpose for which it was created will remain indestructible, and this will disrupt many payment systems. This has gained more acceptance among regulators and the government. We have gone too far to be stopped.
I hit 1.5 million in April 2021 and almost all of it is ETH. I will hit well over 2 mil, most likely 3 million next ATH. I started buying in early 2017. OP sees the samething I do... I feel sorry for an investor that doesn't see this. SOL was the last hope as an ETH killer... and that now ded. Eth is the gwei. DeFi is the way out of Jewish financial oppression but half of you knobs can't even see it...
>>52342895>DeFi is the way out of Jewish financial oppression but half of you knobs can't even see it...This gets me every time how some old cyperus cant see this blinded by hatred.Btc is fine but in state as it is but there's no true financial freedom while we depend on legacy financial rails. You don't have to own 1 and hate another....And for OP, made only 200k this cycle, but my hope is to stack as madman this bear and run my own validators so even I make it next cycle.Don't think I'm dumb, just bit late, but browsing biz makes me feel like better not dumb and late than forever wrong and poor.
>>52343356What are your thoughts about other L1's. People here seem enthusiastic about AVAX as a competitor for ETH due to its better scaling potential.
>>52342419if l2s are expected to pay high prices for security, then the ethmaxi "argument" about bitcoin fees is null and void. just pointing out how most altmaxi arguments fall to pieces when put into context.lightning is simply one type of l2, specifically for payments only, not a blockchain because linearity is not a concern as it would be if it was a smart contract based network like arb/opti/zk. ethereum is trying to scale execution with its l2s, not payments. two entirely different usecases, and using any of the execution l2s only for payments would be highly inefficient.
>>52343633But it is not because LN transactions don't use 1% of btc low capacity even if they do 50x volume from here, they do not timestamp on chain they only pay fees for opening/closing channel, right?I know what ln is actually planning to run ln node after I'm done setting up first 3 eth validators this week, so not hater just using logic, you are same time right (how it works premise) and wrong in conclusion, by sheer fact ln does not post proofs on chain means it cant be significant source of fee revenue for miners. >>52343465Dunno man tried them all and tried to learn as much as I can but theres so much gaslighting in L1 lands lol.Avalanche got like 5x better consensus mechanism than eth that's a fact. But fact is also:consensus is not scaling bottleneck not even in to 5;C-chain is pure geth fork (EVM);All usage was bullmaket incentives;Chain is not profitable (non other than ETH is at this point) they print tokens to secure chain=sell pressure;Leadership is gaslighting facts;SO i guess tech is real and its not worst chain?Problem is we are talking about code and technology in my mind whit zks-everything will scale eventually so l1 battles are not scale based, its users, devs, trust, decentralization in the end.
>>52343982the point is nobody is building "lightning" for ethereum because there's even less interest in paying for things in eth than there is in btc.if fees become a concern, which so far there's zero evidence of, lightning will be but one of many l2 networks.
>>52344149Wrong.Noone wants to pay with eth or btc for obv reasons that we agree.Than remind me what's the point of payment channels that are not peddling stables?Also I can't prove negative but that's not the point, there's also no proof fees will not be concern. P1:Inflation+fees pays people who are securing network.P2:Inflation is goin to 0 and fees are negligible (empty blocks)What is your conclusion here?There is no evidence people who secure network will be payed in future....>>52344149>lightning will be but one of many l2 networks.now this is now just silly, we discussed this already, where are this imaginary l2 and how you implement them whiteout hardforks?
>>52339842Bitdao already doing that
>>52341599>eth fags are workingThis is the only thing that matters.If you've ever been to an Ethereum conference you just can't ignore it, it's full of diligent devs, math-heads and security people.I have no doubt in my mind BTC will just go by the wayside in the long term, it's just a roach resilient meme like dog trash.Nothing interesting comes out of other ecosystems.
ExaclyAlso based OP I had same revelation this year finally. It's not perfect but it's least shitty thing in this clowntown and devs are everything at end of the day. Went on some avax/near shitty conference 1y ago it was full of shills and salesman pitches and suits peddling dreams, one look at devcon and you can tell what's only real game in town....
>>52340134true, POW and POS will always co-exist
>>52342202also this; anonymous creator > public figure
>>52344726I do not often agree with Richard, but his assessement of btc being a hard capped casino token for cex margin trading is pretty spot on.But then again, is margin trading ever going to come out of fashion? Get rich quick is always selling
>>52344718Alameda Research is one of the biggest holders of BitDAO.No one should touch it now
>>52339279>dexes like UNI are clearly future after FTX shitshowyeah I'm gonna long UNI after the market calms down
doesnt it still cost like 0.1eth to send 0.000001eth? Aka spend 19r8403729203 dollars to send 10 bucks
>>52346375I dont think eth devs plan on using it to pay for coffee, that is what roll ups are there for
>>52345521Sure but I assume BTC will be last monolitic POW coin because of gigantic infrastructure around it and that's fine and kinda bullish for BTC.>>52345557Also yeah but that's not ETHS fault none can replicate immaculate conception anymore.Also as much as it is pro for crypto You can see some cons, because without literally any even rough ideas about goals and future of it -many religious zealots pop out trying to influence community...>>52346375No it cost like 0.01$ to move eth on l2s (and will be 50x cheaper soon) and l1 chain (stakers) get payed.Get up with program its not 2017 anymore.I don't know lads, to many of you agree and frontrunned me prob in this revelations was sure I will get flamed much more by L1 bagholders, did everyone capitulate already, seems to early?This thread just 1y ago would get buried in "premine shitcoin","myspace of crypto" spam....
>>52346437>>52346754So you guys just use matic or something? What is eth for if not as a currency
>>52339279Hi op, I've been in the dapp building space for 6 years, got in before it was cool. I'll tell you why I'm not bullish on ETH anymore. 1) its too public, methods of privacy have been hamstringed by the state2) Block proposition and/or validation will likely have to be baked in at the protocol level, only Maximally extracted value txs will be considered, unless your protocol has some weight in the process to do it on behalf of the team3) social slashing hegalian dialectics quagmiring the chain
>>52346801Think Matic is complicated because they are just shitty POS sidechain not true l2 but apparently they are buisness giga brains who used shitty POS sidechain gains to buy top 5 Zk teams so future should be bright for it kek.lately for stables I used mostly OP and ARB and really excited about zksync 2.0, but what I'm most excited is learning how to build and run validators and get that sweet fees+mev from everyone else using L2s.
>>52346962check the ethbtc chart, what do you see?
>>52346882Hi I'm 2y here (but I learn and go trough shit fast due nature of my profession, at least I think....) and I agree that holly grail should be private smart contracts but think none is even close to it, so future is prob compromise -privacy on app layer (something like Aztec?).I also find that one of most fascinating things in eth land is disconnection between application layer and base layer builders, so weird its like 2 worlds.On you points:>1. AgreeBut its kinda ironic that ETH is first who will be state attack tested so they must be doing something right>2.On the fencePBS is still in early days, we have tools to fight back and prob smartest ppl I ever listened working on that issue>DisagreeSocial governance is layer 0 and UASF and social slashing looming over bad actors (lets say cex staking pools bending to ofac) like nuclear option is good weapon to haveIf I was here 2016 i for sure would be ETC "code is law guy", but after seeing what ETH community built and what wasteland is ETC i arrived to conclusion people are always layer 0.There can be 42 million bitcoins moment we get nodes to run update (not happening just saying people are wizard of oz behind code). As per your screenshots, yeah i get the msg but I just runned TC transaction yesterday and flashbot and ofac complaint censoring is actually in decline now, when PBS is implemented should be even better.I can see its not ideal, not blind but sheer fact that eth is at this stage and not bitcoin and army of brains working to defend it -makes me bullish not bearish.
>>52347018IDK anything about charts bruw... Having sad that 0.075 ratio looks much better than 0.018 early 2020 when i started my crypto journey dough.
>>52346882If you would ask me what's my biggest gripe I would add 4.Its been soon 3 years since beacon chain launched and to stake it in self custodial way I need to fuck around linux, terminals, hardware, 2 clients talking to each other etc.If they just focused efforts on easy UI for self staking so much less eth would be in hands of exchanges!Its fixable over time I guess but seems like ball was dropped by eth nerds 2-3 years ago in first place.
>>52344291not interested in trying to discuss with someone that doesn't actually understand the difference between lightning and full-stack settled layer 2 networks.
>>52347512Your not interested to discuss because you are out of your depth, you literally displayed it in your 2 posts.Only fees ln gives to btc are from open/close channel action by user.L2s are literally timestamping and burning eth every few mins as we speak. I can only ask again what are those l2 networks on BTC that PAY for BTC security in fees?
>>52347286>that holly grail should be private smart contracts but think none is even close to it, so future is prob compromise -privacy on app layer (something like Aztec?).aye, technologies like Zksync, and the idea of zero knowledge nand and turing complete homomorphic encryption showed the promise. However, if not even a zero-knowledge mixer can get off the ground without being attacked by the gov't than where does that leave the more extreme functional encryption schemes? I'm keenly looking out for this happy medium, what sort of privacy preserving cryptographic protocol wont eventually get shut down because some NORKs launder funds through it?2)PBS is still in early days, we have tools to fight back and prob smartest ppl I ever listened working on that issueaye, as I always say, i dont think there is a silver bullet to MEV, and as more value gets appended to blocks with more degrees of freedom i totally forsee graphics card farms not dedicated to mining, but to trial and erroring block composition to maximize MEV, the tip is your consent to being sandwiched.>Social governance is layer 0 and UASF and social slashing looming over bad actors (lets say cex staking pools bending to ofac) like nuclear option is good weapon to haveyeah, though my point is that this could create a 'bad faith' situation where non blockchain interests same fag both sides of a spat with the intention of just shitting on everything, sybill greifing is probably a better term>>523474693 years ago we were still high off the "we'll never pay more than 7 cents a tx' and we havent seen what happens to geth if try to fork and scale it like bsc tried. Hell even now we gotta choose between deterministic proxy with truffle or console.log with hardhat, we cant even get our own tooling down pat
>>52347469on the bright side, cexe are unlikely to dump on staking unlock
>>52348395>3 years ago we were still high off the "we'll never pay more than 7 cents a tx' and we havent seen what happens to geth if try to fork and scale it like bsc tried. Hell even now we gotta choose between deterministic proxy with truffle or console.log with hardhat, we cant even get our own tooling down patYeah this is gap in my knowledge, I always forget things weren't "simpler" back than prob just more uncertain..I also don't get it why ETH fags so mad on bsc its literally perfect testnet to see how much we can push/juice geth before it falls apart in production and under heavy usage...I agree whit lot of your points (and googling NORK lmao) good chat bro.
>>52348698good luck on your journey man, perhaps we'll find each other on a project someday
>>52347286>privacy on app layer (something like Aztec?).You mean something like Railgun? Aztec is more of a L2 centralized privacy tool
>>52348395>what sort of privacy preserving cryptographic protocol wont eventually get shutThe type with no admin or multisig keys, no nodes or validator other than Ethereum network nodes.
>>52350198https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tornado_CashI dont believe tornado cash had any admin keyshttps://www.coincenter.org/education/advanced-topics/how-does-tornado-cash-work/#:~:text=Relayers%20allow%20users%20to%20process,sanctioned%20Tornado%20Cash%20smart%20contract.they had operator verifiyer they depreciated in 2020 and additional relayers that live in a docker container were technically optional, i'm not sure yet if they could be tacked on by outsiders or needed permission from the core team however, could countIs your bet strong enough in the face of prison time to bring these technologies online?
>>52339279Multi-chain is the future. Best time to pay attention to cross-chain functional projects.
>>52342577Now, simplified authorization is needed to get millions of normies onboarded
>>52348698>perfect testnet to see how much we can push/juice geth before it falls apart in production and under heavy usageWhy do you need to test something that's already well known behavior under retarded parameters?Maybe they're mad because a grifter larps as if he knows his shit, pulls in a crowd, then sets them on fire? Lucky that we're only trading JPEGs and farming inflationary tokens.
>>52339279there is no future without the metaverse let that sink in
>>52343465man shut the fuck up! avax ain't even in competition with sylo
>>52351634this is exactly why am keeping up with holoride and their impressive vr tech
>>52339279You forgot that there’s also no levered player like Saylor.
>>52339388>what is refactoring codeu realize it's possible to fix old code right? also most of eth is independent third party contracts... totally outside of the realm of core devs
>>52351000Yeah, if we must ever scale and expand, there is a need for that. This is one of the few reasons I like chains that are patented. This will make it possible to overcome existing barriers to blockchain adoption.
>>52339388>spaghetti codebot tier opinion, regurgitated every day and never elaborated on. stupid faggot npc, bagholder fudding for cheapies, or a robot, which is no different to a stupid faggot npc desu
Awesome thread OP. I know you're running validators soon. I want to but feel like it would be a mission. I missed out on matic, any other layer 2 you you think will moon?
>>52350782>Is your bet strong enough in the face of prison time to bring these technologies online?Think indirect damage is worse than direct in TC case with this type of shit somewhere there is next 0 to 1 idea guy like Hayden that will just fuck off from this industry because he dislikes prison....>>52351108I'm not OG and even I cached up fast that in this shitshow grifters gona grift, no point in being mad?>>52352546This is good point i should added yeah.Than again contagion after sailor would just crash everything anyway?>>52355509Yeah I'm also surprised this cough on and is not drowned in regular bizz spam wtf....Don't know, that's good question, truth to be told I don't see why l2s need token at all (mby sequencer mev capture later on?) besides "governance" meme.One think I noticed when i entered space early 2020 everyone was like "whats purpose of defi tokens" than they discovered "purpose" of defi tokens is to go 1000x and you seethe from sideline lol (looking at aave early 2020 chart) so there's lesion in that I think.Ah and sidenote, as this chad already noted here >>52348395 not only we prob end up fighting/extracting mev with simulations on GPUs, many upcoming ZKrollups will have GPUs doing sequencer calculations and it would be ironic twist of fate we and up in:>destroyed GPU market for years with mining>GTFO from POW to POS mining in shambles>miners capitulated sell GPUs for pennys>in 1-2y we end up in new validation of ZKs/Mev mining boom all over againNow that would be funny >>52348810Same to you!
This thread has disproven all the fud that exists tomorrow I will repent and sell all my BTC and SCAMCOIN moonshots all in ETH and it's pillars UNI AAVE PNK etc
Shit OP, Reasoning solid, arguments strong, def made me think about things and reaserch some new terms, thank you on thread again.
>>52339388Just why would anyone not yet see Avax is the literal future
>>52343465What about layer 0?
>>52357974Layer 0 is recognized for scaling as well, and Geeq comes to mind as a candidate for superiority. It also prioritise security through its own innovative protocol.
>>52357724>Just why would anyone not yet see Avax is the literal futureAaaaand we had good run boys, pack it upLets revisit this talk in 2y, I have good feeling about this thig thing called ETH
looks like its inflationary againtime to jump ship
>>52340134>Bitcoin is too entrenched to be replaced by Ethereumroflmao its used for nothing except speculationthere's no real entrenchment, just laggard retards like you who don't know you've been bleeding relative value for years and will continue to do so
>>52339279eth is going to be lock-step with fedcoins. they'll freeze your accounts eventually. never buy extremely centralized shit. every single layer 2 solution is better than eth.