65 percent of the stake controlled by exchanges,

[Anonymous No.51450958]

100% of exchanges controlled by the US and other governments. 0% of pow being wasted energy since 100% of it is going to securing the network and decentralization.

[Anonymous No.51452156]

This is the dead of ethereum, I have no idea how people are able to act smug at minerfags, they were the one that fuled their entire pseudo ponzi, now it's just a real ponzi.
They even burn fees lmao, for what fucking reason other than price go up did they do 1559 and PoS

[Anonymous No.51452196]

This is fine

[Anonymous No.51452210]

>>51452196
the memes are true

[Anonymous No.51452386]

>>51450958
downgrade to shitcoin successful

[Anonymous No.51452536]

>>51450958
>B-BUT THE ENVIRONMENT HAS BEEN SAVED

[Anonymous No.51452703]

>>51450958
China controls all crypto’s except Ethereum. Expect to see a lot of anti Ethereum as the CCP uses its ASIC miners to endlessly spam this board. If you’re actually interested in crypto, Ethereum is your best bet as it’s properly backed and it’s devs are doxxed. It has a proper white page and it’s goals and growth are clearly stated. You won’t find these things with CCP coins. Ethereum is a stable coin designed to actually be useful. It’s not a hedge for the Chinese and Russian military, unlike bitcoin and it’s forks.

[Anonymous No.51452907]

>>51452536

[Anonymous No.51453022]

>>51452536
>saves 0.02% of the environment
great job! I love how vitalik posted fake information on twitter saying it's 0.20%

[Anonymous No.51453432]

>>51452703
kek
I'll stick with my based USA Chad corporation Ripple thank you.
I don't like Russians or Furries.

[Anonymous No.51453534]

ETH 51% itself, it's over. They worked out the math on POS back in 2015 lmao centralization is guaranteed over a long enough time period

[Anonymous No.51453549]

>>51452703
mETH heads are something else

[Anonymous No.51453610]

>>51452196
what % of pow blocks are produced by the top mining pools?
>>51450958
>>51452156
>>51452386
>>51452536
>>51452907
>>51453022
>>51453432
>>51453534
>>51453549
late adopter maxibaggie cope

[Anonymous No.51453684]

>>51453610
"late adopter"
Why would I adopt this JPM controlled shbitcoin?
The tech itself is absolute SHIT, compared to some of the newer coins, seems like mETHheads are doing great now, as their shitcoin plummets after the "bullish merge"

LMAO

[Anonymous No.51453755]

>>51453610

If a group controls 51% of hash you can always fork the chain, also this is pretty much impossible to do as you would need the largest pools to cooperate and brick their own chain.

You may say this is similar to PoS in that the largest validators could unite to commit a 51% attack if they had enough of a stake, but the difference is it’s easier to control PoS because once you have the coins, it’s over, you own that power as long as you hold the coins, with PoW, hashrate is in flexible supply, you can always add or takeaway hash to determine the degree of decentralization.

Also PoW coins took actual work to make, which contributes to their value, PoS tokens are literally pulled out of the creators ass and delegated to his chums, like some kind of aristocracy.

[Anonymous No.51453793]

>>51453755
Pretty good explanation

[Anonymous No.51453861]

>From one day to the other, ETH went from being of the most decentralized coins to one the most centralized
>Proof of Stake
More like Proof of Shit, lol!

[Anonymous No.51453864]

>>51452536

[Anonymous No.51453866]

>>51453755
Checked

[Anonymous No.51453871]

>>51450958
S-should I move my contracts then to ada?

[Anonymous No.51453911]

>>51452196
>>51452210
>>51452156
>>51450958
>>51452703
>>51453755
Wait until Fed banks enter the arena (Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citi). Then the fun begins.

[Anonymous No.51453988]

>>51453911
All of ETHs value, stems from JPM and jewscahs lol

[Anonymous No.51454073]

>>51453684
low iq
>>51453755
an attacker does not need to physically control 51% of hashpower to fuck with PoW, as block rewards decrease it becomes more vulnerable to adversarial incentives offered by an attacker to harvest hashes from rational miners seeking the best yield. claiming that is easier to obtain 51% of PoS stake than 51% of hashpower is also completely unfounded (show your work, don't pull cope narratives out of your ass). Furthermore, saying "it's over" in that unlikely scenario is also ridiculous, given that the honest 49% could simply fork away from the bad actor and make the controlling 51% stake completely worthless, permanently.
>Also PoW coins took actual work to make, which contributes to their value
this is a logical fallacy, work does not equal value, a ditch dug by hand for 10 hours is not more valuable than a ditch dug in 30 minutes by a backhoe
>PoS tokens are literally pulled out of the creators ass and delegated to his chums, like some kind of aristocracy.
I get that this ebin democracy bullshit will be your narrative now (which is hilarious given that coiners have literally always styled themselves as cryptobarons ruling their normoid slaves from their citadels) but PoS is inherently more democratic and accessible to random people to join and develop versus the imposition of needing to buy and maintain hardware devoted to heavy computation and the inherent regional iniquities of energy costs

[Anonymous No.51454121]

>>51450958
Right because mining pools where so much better

[Anonymous No.51454208]

>>51454073
So what happens when the primary stake holders start to censor transactions because OFAC told them to?

[Anonymous No.51454302]

>>51450958
but muh environment!!!

[Anonymous No.51454339]

Imagine believing in man made climate change. kek

[Anonymous No.51454472]

>>51454073

Wrong, you do need to own 51% of hash to 51% attack PoW, that’s literally a requirement. As for the block reward, maybe long term that could be an issue for something like Bitcoin, but it won’t be for something like Doge which doesn’t have a halveninf mechanism and can pretty much be sustained through block rewards in perpetuity.

Also, again, owning 51% of the hash is harder than owning 51% of stake, because hashrate isn’t constant and not something any single party can control, but coin ownership is something that can be controlled as any dedicated attacker can just amass coins and there is nothing any other party could do to stop them.

You can hardfork PoS all you want, but the fact is it’s still harder to attack PoW because it’s security is based on hash, not on token ownership.

Work does equal value. I can’t just whisk a ducking bitcoin out of my ass, it doesn’t matter if it was mined with a laptop in 2010 or an asic farm in 2022, it still took work to create the coin, it’s valuable partially because it cannot be counterfeited in any way, YOU MUST mine to mint new bitcoin, there is no other way of creating it.

Meanwhile PoS you literally just printing tokens in your glorified excel database and then distributing shit to all your friends and then guaranteeing them power in perpetuity to control the network.

With PoW, early adopters are rewarded for bootstrapping the network by getting the lion shares of early coins, but this has zero impact on the actual function and governance of the blockchain. They still had to invest in the hardware and electricity to produce those coins and secure the network. With PoS you have to do fucking nothing, it’s fundamentally worthless.

You honestly sound like a massive fag.

[Anonymous No.51454480]

holy shit i love ETC now

[Anonymous No.51454520]

>>51452536
just wait for governments to ban PoW and big companies to stop using PoW for green washing concern.

[Anonymous No.51454521]

>>51454073
>this is a logical fallacy, work does not equal value, a ditch dug by hand for 10 hours is not more valuable than a ditch dug in 30 minutes by a backhoe
No but socially necessary labor does. And machines do not create value which is why it's cheaper to do things with a backhoe than an army of laborers

[Anonymous No.51454528]

>>51454073

[Anonymous No.51454560]

>>51450958
Wow not enough replies to your copypastes in all the threads you spammed it in, so you have to make your own?
I don't even disagree with the point you're making but this is pathetic faggot behavior

[Anonymous No.51454595]

>>51454560
You misunderstood, I don't give a fuck to get replies, because the fact the replies do not exist means the arguments don't.

[Anonymous No.51454641]

>>51452703
>China controls all crypto’s except Ethereum
retard

[Anonymous No.51454652]

>>51454472

Also there are only ~13,000,000 staked ETH, so it would take ~6.5 to 13 million stake ETH to 51% attack the network, that is waaay cheaper than buying enough infrastructure to control 51% of the hash. An adversary could even hedge their attack by shorting an equivalent amount of ETH that they used in an attack, so even if they lose their stake to a hardfork, they would still make money and completely ruin trust in the network.

[Anonymous No.51454674]

>>51454641

So what’s going on in China, are people just faulting the mining ban there? Looks like it.

[Anonymous No.51454683]

>>51454472
>Wrong, you do need to own 51% of hash
Wrong, you need much less than that. it's actually like 30%

[Anonymous No.51454710]

>>51454652
The most interesting thing about all this shit, is how people still consider infallible gurus a few brainlet devs that happened to be at the right time and at the right place. Do Kwon was nothing compared to what might happen.

[Anonymous No.51454738]

>>51454674
>So what’s going on in China
it's all illegal mining

[Anonymous No.51454805]

>>51454738

based

[Anonymous No.51454840]

>>51450958
does ehterum move to proof of stake mean that it needs chainlink?

[Anonymous No.51454843]

>>51452196
Can anybody explain flashbots? Aren't those supposed to make transactions inevitable even if the majority of bosses are malicious. How does that work?

[Anonymous No.51454860]

>>51454121
The most commonly debunked fallacy. Pools are just random Joes mining; they can change pool or even asset in seconds; nobody controls what algorithm they use.
pos is coins locked on-chain; most of them by known registered exchanges and other entities; all of them directly ordered by governments if needed.

[Anonymous No.51454889]

anyone got those eth is pre mined screen cap?

[Anonymous No.51454956]

What happens to ETH when Vitalik has a stroke because of the clot shot? Will it still be numbers-go-up technology?

[Anonymous No.51454985]

>>51454956
he works hard, for that to not be needed, and it to die on its own

[Anonymous No.51455003]

>>51454889

No but I have Vitalik saying PoS is shit: https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/07/05/stake

> proof-of-stake systems are ultimately permanent nobilities where the members of the genesis block allocation always have the ultimate say.

> it also gives the nobility a permanent profit-making privilege, and not just voting rights

> proof-of-stake chains are completely self-referential

and so on.

[Anonymous No.51455054]

>>51453911
>POS
>print infinite money and not have to use real resources to create new money
>shitcoiners think this is a good thing cause muh environment

[Anonymous No.51455067]

>>51455003
>Ultimately, this boils down to a philosophical question: exactly how much does decentralization mean to us, and how much are we willing to pay for it? Remember that centralized databases, and even quasi-centralized ones based on Ripple consensus, are free. If perfect decentralization is indeed worth $100 billion, then proof of work is definitely the right way to go. But arguably that is not the case.
I like how he admits he centralized it.

[Anonymous No.51455104]

>>51452156
the real ponzi was JP Morgan being the market maker in the beginning, spoofing and guaranteeing buy/sell orders when there were no real participants. It's a open secret as all great scams started out this way: Amazon, Alibaba, the Fed, etc.

[Anonymous No.51455154]

>>51455067
> I like how he admits he centralized it.

He floats the idea that there is a middle ground, that one can achieve a careful balance between centralization and decentralization, when the reality is that a system will always tend towards one or the other extreme.

The whole article is a roast of PoS very carefully worded to make it seem like there is hope of one day finding a solution to all the problems associated with it...

[Anonymous No.51455161]

>>51454860
watching the ETH merge stream was blackpilling. a bunch of soiboy canadian faggots are running this show.

[Anonymous No.51455179]

>>51453755
all fiat currency are in principle fraudulent when they dilute the capital stock without adding goods or services. POS is just more of the same shit.

[Anonymous No.51455193]

>>51455154
The fact he's into some legitimate lunacy, e.g. believing humans may live literally forever in his lifetime, I'm not very confident about anything he claims.

[Anonymous No.51455218]

>>51450958
Why have people accepted calling the PoS fork ETH, and the real chain ETHW? We should have the PoW chain be ETH and the PoS fork be ETHS

[Anonymous No.51455225]

this is it folks, your final warning.
you're tied to train tracks and you never know when the train will come. when it comes, and the moment the US decides to censor a transaction on ethereum, this shit is over

[Anonymous No.51455282]

>>51455218
because it influences how you feel about it

[Anonymous No.51455385]

>>51452156
Not a Ponzi when people actually use the network, the native currency has demand and value based off people actually using it rather than stockpiling and sitting on it because there's nothing to do on read ghost chains with 5 transactions per day.

[Anonymous No.51455437]

>>51453755
>
You may say this is similar to PoS in that the largest validators could unite to commit a 51% attack if they had enough of a stake, but the difference is it’s easier to control PoS because once you have the coins, it’s over

Opposite, actually..Once you have the mining rigs, it's over. Your PoW Network has to change it's consensus to cope. With PoS you just fork away and they literally have nothing but worthless coins they spent billions on.

[Anonymous No.51455444]

>>51455218
>Why have people accepted calling the PoS fork ETH, and the real chain ETHW?

Why? Because Vitalik said so.
Having a leader means you don't have to use logic to make decisions.

Why do you think they called it "the merge" ?
A merge is the exact opposite of a fork. They didn't want people to think of it as being a fork because it didn't suit them. It's purposely misleading.

[Anonymous No.51455458]

>>51455218
You need to get a team of competent devs on the PoW form first. They couldn't even pick a proper chainID or have a block scanner set up in time.

[Anonymous No.51455469]

>>51452196
The fucking irony of the situation
Do these faggots ever just ask themselves where is my crypto being stored?
Coinbase only has this amount because of the retards giving them the money to do so. Take it out of the exchange and put it in a trezor or wallet Jesus Christ

[Anonymous No.51455477]

>>51452536
mfw i'm still mining

[Anonymous No.51455602]

>>51455437
>Once you have the mining rigs, it's over.
Once you have the coin supply, it's over.
>Your PoW Network has to change it's consensus to cope.
You PoS Network has to change its consensus to cope.
>With PoS you just fork away and they literally have nothing but worthless coins they spent billions on.
With PoW you just fork away and they literally have nothing but worthless asics they spent billions on.

Everybody with asics would get rekt, which is great, bitcoin was intended to be mined on your home computer's cpu anyway. We should have forked to an asic resistant algo a long time ago, because if it happens now the hashrate will drop so much that it will be a looong two weeks before the difficulty adjusts and blocks are mined regularly again.

[Anonymous No.51455604]

>>51453755
based
>>51453610
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.51455605]

>>51450958
e

[Anonymous No.51455618]

>>51455469
>Take it out of the exchange and put it in a trezor or wallet Jesus Christ

Too complicated for normies. That's why we can't have nice things.

[Anonymous No.51455984]

>>51453755
Checked. Glad I only did a test stake with one ETH on Coinbase. They promised me interest, they promised me it would automatically convert to ETH2, and they promised me I could reap the rewards and trade once the merge was complete.

Imagine my fucking surprise when the fags now only let you wrap it and trade their fake cETH or whatever the fuck that is. Basically those absolute shysters are going to keep their 30% of the market staked and use their customers for liquidity.

Glad I kept most of my shit in my own wallet. Never trust a centralized exchange. They exist to enrich themselves alone.

[Anonymous No.51456005]

>>51453861
This. Not amused.

[Anonymous No.51456050]

>>51455618
You can't take it out of Coinbase. It's still locked. You can only trade their wrapped version of ETH.

[Anonymous No.51456115]

>>51455218
the real chain is and always has been ETC, but most people don't even know that. ETH is the fork.

[Anonymous No.51456139]

>>51455444
ETH is inherently centralized. There is no competition for the best idea and the best form of currency when a messiah can just veto it

[Anonymous No.51456239]

>>51454472
When will you dumb shits realize that you can buy mining rigs just as you can buy stake? You think the extra effort of paying a company to manage it will stop banks?

On the other hand: When someone runs a majority-attack on pos, you can fork it and exclude the bad actors. With pow the dishonest machines can be just reused to attack the fork, thus gaining you nothing.

Your turn.

[Anonymous No.51456262]

>>51450958
Yeah, guys, it is literally over for ethereum. I got out of it before the merge and that’s that. Investing in successor coins.

[Anonymous No.51456288]

>>51455469
I literally cannot afford to, too expensive.

[Anonymous No.51456310]

>>51455602
No though. You are literally just spouting nonsense

[Anonymous No.51456492]

>>51455984

And I bet you that they will never list the ETH PoW chain just so they can dump those coins and make a sweet profit instead of crediting them to their user's accounts.

[Anonymous No.51456662]

>>51456239
>On the other hand: When someone runs a majority-attack on pos, you can fork it and exclude the bad actors. With pow the dishonest machines can be just reused to attack the fork, thus gaining you nothing.

Explain to me in details the mechanism for excluding the bad actors on PoS and why the same mechanism or another mechanism is not possible on PoW. I suggest you start by explaining what it is the bad actors are doing. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.51456750]

>>51456239

except to 51% eth right now you’d only need ~6.5 million ETH, and you could hedge that attack with a short position so you would gain something for bricking the network.

How much would it cost to buy enough hash to 51% BTC? Good luck with that.

[Anonymous No.51456813]

>>51456662
The only way to do that on PoW is to change the hashing algorithm which punishes ALL miners simultaneously, not just the bad actors. There is no way to laser-target bad actors on PoW.

[Anonymous No.51456889]

>>51456662
Think for a minute for yourself. You know which coins where used in the attack, so you void them in the fork. With pow see >>51456813

>>51456750
>cover with shorts
That’s at least a good attempt. Although my intuition tells me me that „shorting something, buying it up and running it into the ground“ is not sustainable; maybe it is with leverage. Would need find counterparties though, no?

[Anonymous No.51456912]

>>51450958
Bullish for LUNC

[Anonymous No.51457005]

>>51456750
And the „bitcoin big“ argument is such crap, would almost consider it a troll if I would not know maxis to be serious. What if - we instead made some better tech big? One supporting smart contracts for example? It’s like saying „everyone is using snail mail, this arpanet shit will never catch on“. You are like my boomer cousin who sends me the same generic WhatsApp invite via SMS each year because his ant brain can’t handle the idea of switching out a technology for better one.

Btw ETH stinks as well. Utxo is goat. But I said too much already.

[Anonymous No.51457028]

>>51455602
>Everybody with asics would get rekt, which is great, bitcoin was intended to be mined on your home computer's cpu anyway. We should have forked to an asic resistant algo a long time ago, because if it happens now the hashrate will drop so much that it will be a looong two weeks before the difficulty adjusts and blocks are mined regularly again.
that happened in 2017 dumbass

[Anonymous No.51457088]

>>51452196
NO REFUNDS

[Anonymous No.51457196]

>>51456262
I hope the baby is black.

[Anonymous No.51457296]

>>51454472
>dedicated attacker can just amass coins and there is nothing any other party could do to stop them.
Thats literally incorrect. The attacker can be forked out. Its the primary defense mechanism of POS. To ignore it just proves you have room temp IQ

[Anonymous No.51457335]

>>51455385
>Get a load of this Goy

[Anonymous No.51457366]

>>51454889

[Anonymous No.51457369]

>>51455444
>Why? Because Vitalik said so.
>Having a leader means you don't have to use logic to make decisions.
You're in a cult anon

[Anonymous No.51457404]

>>51457296

retard, there is nothing stopping someone from buying coins

>let’s just slash and double play this global mission-critical super computer bro, what could go wrong!

Meanwhile PoW Bitcoin has never been 51% attacked in its entire history,

[Anonymous No.51457463]

>>51452196
they need to make it so the ammount of eth you have isn't a lottery ticket. no matter how much you have you get one ticket and thats it. otherwise this shit is just like PoW with only a handful of early adopters getting rich and running everything.

[Anonymous No.51457486]

>>51457366

most of those are probably exchanges, but still such distribution, much decentralized!

[Anonymous No.51457564]

>>51452156
no pow coin has any value
miners dump on people, people get nothing back

[Anonymous No.51457569]

Oh wow, ETH goes PoS and the SEC immediately announces PoS are probably securities contracts. Right on que.

CoinDesk: SEC's Gensler Signals Extra Scrutiny for Proof-of-Stake Cryptocurrencies: Report.
https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/09/15/secs-gensler-signals-extra-scrutiny-for-proof-of-stake-cryptocurrencies-report/

[Anonymous No.51457577]

It's backed by nothing now. Unfortunately eip1559 was the last thing Ethereum needed. Not this POS that will just keep selling pressure. It's unbelievable that they are genius on making a merge but fucking retarded with the tokenomics

[Anonymous No.51457645]

>>51457564
>miners dump on people, people get nothing back
miners dumping is a good thing, you are retarded if you think centralizing token supply to wealthy people is desired

[Anonymous No.51457649]

>>51456813
>There is no way to laser-target bad actors on PoW

How come? How does one laser-targets on PoS and why is that impossible on PoW?

[Anonymous No.51457662]

>>51456889
>You know which coins where used in the attack, so you void them in the fork

What prevents us from doing the same thing on PoW?

[Anonymous No.51457670]

>>51454652
>so it would take ~6.5 to 13 million stake ETH to 51% attack the network, that is waaay cheaper than buying enough infrastructure to control 51% of the hash
No, it cost between $1B and $2B to fully take over bitcoin.
>>51455225
once american government decides to force block generators to enforce sanctions bitcoin will fall because it has no defense.
Ethereum will fork away.
>>51455602
You can't fork away in PoW like that. Asic miners can rent gpus and mine at a loss to kill any fork. Which is what would happen.
>>51457645
this is literally the only good point about pow, but the distribution has mostly ended in btc too anyway.
>>51457649
because every validator has a different address and it takes months (if not years) to move millions of staked eth to other accounts

in PoW, all hashrate is fungible, you can't just ban some specific asic

[Anonymous No.51457682]

>>51457670

>No, it cost between $1B and $2B to fully take over bitcoin.

moron

[Anonymous No.51457690]

>>51457682
calculate it yourself.
those asics didn't come from the sky. Somebody bought them.

[Anonymous No.51457712]

>>51457670

>once american government decides to force block generators to enforce sanctions bitcoin will fall because it has no defense.
Ethereum will fork away.

BTC hashrate is at ATH and mining continues in China despite ban.

Meanwhile major exchanges are the biggest validors on ETH, government could crack down instantly and take control of the network.

[Anonymous No.51457742]

>>51457712
>BTC hashrate is at ATH
yes, almost 40% in America.
Very close to majority.
One executive order and they will be forced to censor whatever.
>Meanwhile major exchanges are the biggest validors on ETH, government could crack down instantly and take control of the network.
That's not even true. Coinbase is only 14.5%. Lido has global validators.

[Anonymous No.51457747]

>>51457690
The dynamic you describe has been true for all of Bitcoins history.
If it’s that simple, why hasn’t BTC been successfully attacked yet?

[Anonymous No.51457752]

>>51455602
asic resistance is stupid and defeats the purpose of actual pow.

[Anonymous No.51457765]

>>51457747
Because it's an irrelevant ponzi. Why would anybody attack btc right now? Literally nothing of importance relies on btc continuing to operate. Attack is indeed too expensive to rob an exchange, which is very hard due to kyc now.
Thus there's no military nor a financial motivation.

[Anonymous No.51457779]

>>51457742

The hashrate will just move from American if that happens, it’s not a big deal. Besides the Chinese still mine it and they have a much more authoritarian government, you are believing memes.

[Anonymous No.51457798]

>>51457779
It won't move from America because America has cheapest electricity. So non-censoring miners would be outcompeted by censoring miners.
What would happen are people gradually accepting 'censoring terrorists' and that would be it.

[Anonymous No.51457816]

>>51457779
>Besides the Chinese still mine it and they have a much more authoritarian government, you are believing memes.
America is much worse at censoring financial stuff globally. China just keeps to itself.

[Anonymous No.51457836]

>>51457569

Holy fuck. That's the real news.

[Anonymous No.51457856]

>>51457798

it’s cheaper to attack Ethereum than Bitcoin. sure you can slash but then your mission critical network is fucked.

also, less hash means easier to mine, means more profitable to mine with more expensive electricity. again not a big deal if US bans.

[Anonymous No.51457907]

>>51457836
there's no legal way solo staking in ethereum fits the security definition
highest risk: staked derivatives
medium risk: DPoS
if you have to run a node it's not a security, simple
if you give someone else funds to stake, then maybe
>>51457856
No, cost of slashed eth in a 2/3 attack would be much higher.
>but then your mission critical network is fucked.
there would be chaos, but a fork would function again.
>again not a big deal if US bans.
It won't be a ban, it would be an order forcing censorship of ofac sanctioned addresses and potentially ignoring blocks that break sanctions.

Anyway, the threat of slashing is enough. Coinbase already promised to shut down the service if they are forced to censor. Which is the best outcome in that situation. Nobody particularly wants to delete eth staked by random people.

[Anonymous No.51457921]

>>51454520
just wait for governments to ban PoW
good luck with that

[Anonymous No.51457924]

>>51457798
what do you mean censoring, you mean censoring that one address that did illegal stuff and which will never get reused again? kek
also the censored transaction will end up going through anyway since there are others miners outside the country which aren't censoring it

[Anonymous No.51457926]

>>51454840
Yes

[Anonymous No.51457943]

>>51457670
>because every validator has a different address and it takes months (if not years) to move millions of staked eth to other accounts

So the laser-target technique is to target an address?

In a PoW 51% attack all the attacker can do is to double-spend coins that they already own. So it would also be possible to "laser-target" their address. Maybe the mechanism for this is not already "built-in" like it is in PoS (where it's needed by design) but nothing prevents good actors from agreeing on freezing or even slashing certain addresses as part of a fork. This way the attacker needs to acquire new coins to continue his attack.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Anonymous No.51457973]

>>51457742
>One executive order and they will be forced to censor whatever.
>>51457670
>once american government decides to force block generators to enforce sanctions bitcoin will fall because it has no defense.

Cope. The only chains impervious to that are privacy coins like Monero.

[Anonymous No.51458020]

>>51454520
>>51457921
the entire point of PoW is decentralization, EXACTLY because it would be resistant even to governments attacking it.

people have forgotten what the OG devs even tried to do.

[Anonymous No.51458027]

>>51457924
>what do you mean censoring, you mean censoring that one address that did illegal stuff and which will never get reused again? kek
they can sanction addresses with btc, dunno if any currently are
>also the censored transaction will end up going through anyway since there are others miners outside the country which aren't censoring it
not if American miners own >50% and orphan those blocks.
>>51457943
>Maybe the mechanism for this is not already "built-in" like it is in PoS (where it's needed by design) but nothing prevents good actors from agreeing on freezing or even slashing certain addresses as part of a fork. This way the attacker needs to acquire new coins to continue his attack.
I don't understand what do you mean here. You don't need btc to mine btc. Consensus relies on external resources.
>>51457973
Monero is trivial to destroy in its entirety due to negligible block rewards. Honestly I could afford to do it. It's like people forget those block rewards are supposed to be high.
Of course, I have zero financial incentive to do so, but - trivial for any government too.

[Anonymous No.51458030]

>>51457907

you are seriously underestimating how hard it would be to get enough hash power to 51% attack Bitcoin. It would have happened by now if it was feasible, there is too much money on the line.

The problems of PoS extend for beyond adversary attacker resilience.

[Anonymous No.51458065]

>>51452156
PoW tokens aren't needed. PoS tokens aren't needed either but at least the infrastructure is cheaper. Everything will be PoS in the end.

[Anonymous No.51458068]

>>51458030
>It would have happened by now if it was feasible, there is too much money on the line.
there's no conceivable way to profit from such an attack because no real world economy relies on bitcoin.
All you can maybe do is to try to double spend an exchange, which is impossible for billions worth of (eth?) because how do you even withdraw that much? with what btc?

No, the only realistic attack is for a non-profit reasons - and realistically it would happen with regulations first, not outright buying.

[Anonymous No.51458072]

>>51458030
there is too much money not from doing the attack, but from mining with that much power

[Anonymous No.51458080]

>>51458027

Minero and even BTC get transactions/block rewards wrong. Doge coin has one of the best models I’ve heard of because miners can receive block rewards in perpetuity while keeping transactions fees minimal (enough to prevent denial of service attacks).

[Anonymous No.51458103]

>>51458027
even if america have more than 50% hashrate is doesn't mean they will censor 100% of transactions

[Anonymous No.51458145]

>>51458030
btw it's not theory. The guy that 51% etc apparently lost 200k eth (!) on the attempt. It's really, really hard to figure out how to actually profit on a 51% attack right now.

If ethereum got tokenized real world assets while on PoW and economies actually started relying on it - then yes, you could eg. censor company's assets and short it on the short market, many possibilities
>>51458103
it's true, but it means they technically can - one executive order away.
Unlike staking, mining on a significant scale can't be hidden.

[Anonymous No.51458149]

>>51458027
>I don't understand what do you mean here. You don't need btc to mine btc. Consensus relies on external resources.

You need btc for a 51% attack, because a 51% attack simply allows you to spend your coins twice. If you don't have coins you can't do an effective 51% attack.

If you don't understand that you've just demonstrated that you don't know what you are talking about (which we already knew). Congratulations.

[Anonymous No.51458160]

>>51457564
>no pow coin has any value
>>51457765
>irrelevant ponzi
>>51458027
>I could afford to do it.
Moron, you're only fooling children with your diversion propaganda. Point is that PoS is centralization; governments being able to order it controlled; your piece of shit violates the entire point of OG devs' work.

[Anonymous No.51458166]

>>51458149
No, you're thinking of a double spend attack. A 51% attack means you control the chain, a double spend attack is one of ways to utilize that control. You don't need any btc to censor - you just mine blocks without some addresses and orphan blocks that have it.

[Anonymous No.51458186]

>>51458160
Daily monero block rewards = $60,965.22
This is nothing.

[Anonymous No.51458194]

>>51458149

really? damn you learn something new everyday… I thought a doublespend attack meant the attacker could literally rewind or rewrite any transaction. I didn’t know the attack was limited to just the attackers own coin, doh.

[Anonymous No.51458196]

>>51458166

And what can you do with a 51% attack when you control the chain? (except double spending)

[Anonymous No.51458209]

>>51458196
I can prevent whoever I want from making any transactions.
For example, I can enforce kyc. If you don't send me your id and register your addresses your transactions are banned.

[Anonymous No.51458214]

>>51458166
>No, you're thinking of a double spend attack. A 51% attack means you control the chain, a double spend attack is one of ways to utilize that control. You don't need any btc to censor - you just mine blocks without some addresses and orphan blocks that have it.
>>51458196

I see, so you're saying someone would spend billions just to prevent others to transact (most of the time). Alright. I'm not too worried about that.

[Anonymous No.51458229]

>>51458214
>I see, so you're saying someone would spend billions just to prevent others to transact (most of the time).
The adversary here is US government telling miners to censor eg. Iran, and potentially mining itself to get to >50%
This is the single most likely attack.

[Anonymous No.51458241]

>>51458194
>I didn’t know the attack was limited to just the attackers own coin, doh.

Not your keys not your coins.
You can't mine a valid block that says you spent someone else's coins if you don't have their private key to sign the transaction.

[Anonymous No.51458272]

>>51458229
> The adversary here is US government
who doesn't need any of that shit to control eth,
they can just order the exchanges directly.

[Anonymous No.51458299]

>>51458229
>The adversary here is US government telling miners to censor eg. Iran, and potentially mining itself to get to >50%
>This is the single most likely attack.

That's fine then. I can wait until my transaction gets mined. They have to control 99% of the hashrate for it to be annoying (and that means they'd need 100x the current hashrate).

[Anonymous No.51458304]

I mean, someone in another thread said it best.

With mining pools, these are voluntary collectives where miners pool resources, like a labor union. They are highly liquid and miners can opt to leave pools at any time if the pool starts to misbehave.

Compare this to ETH where the largest exchanges and Lido control the lionshare of staked ETH, which are illiquid accounts, you can clearly see there is too much centralization.

[Anonymous No.51458307]

>>51453755
Note how this post fails to mention slashing to prevent said 51% attacks. Bad actors will lose their coins.

[Anonymous No.51458329]

>>51458272
American exchanges don't even control enough eth to do that.
Even if they did, that would mean a anti-censorship fork.
>>51458299
no, if you control majority you can orphan blocks of other miners. >50% is enough to force any censorship.

[Anonymous No.51458370]

>>51457907
>mETHhead logic
Solo staking won't/can't be regulated by the SEC. However, every contract will be a security. And, in the near future, with banksters controlling the majority stake, they will censor/regulate everything built on ETH.

[Anonymous No.51458380]

>>51455477
you're throwing money away, nothing is profitable to mine

[Anonymous No.51458386]

>>51458370
what do you mean by 'every contract'
every smart contract on ethereum? what?

[Anonymous No.51458408]

>>51458329
> "I only care about American exchanges"
Not only that's a silly argument in itself: the US government controls more than its own exchanges and the US government is not the only government in the world either.
The worst part is: those are still diversion tactics to the main point; not everyone has 32 eth; and everyone that does have 32 eth: is locked on-chain
Miners do not have their wealth locked on chain; they can even switch pool or even coin; your piece of shit violates the OG goal of crypto itself.

[Anonymous No.51458412]

>>51458307

bro it’s not decentralized, it’s like owning shares in a company, you have control of the network in perpetuity as long as you have your tokens.

[Anonymous No.51458426]

>>51458329
HAHAHA greedy eth retards will never fork against their own bags. We learned this in the BTC/BCH and ETH/ETC forks. Are you fucking kidding me, look at tornado cash

[Anonymous No.51458432]

>>51458426
>Are you fucking kidding me, look at tornado cash
it's not censored

[Anonymous No.51458462]

>>51458432
It is literally just mixing your crypto woth tainted coins at this point.
Eth and BTC users love censorship. It is easier to shill bags

[Anonymous No.51458480]

>>51458386
Did you see Gary Gensler's statement? Yes, every L2 is a security even if the US makes ETH a commodity. And ETH has little use case without EVM utilities.

As for censoring, if the OFAC tells Coinbase to censor a transaction to North Korea they will censor zee transaction. No one at CB is doing 30 years in the Federal slam on principle. For that matter CB as a stake holder will largely be irrelevant once Fed banks become the primary stake holders.

[Anonymous No.51458495]

>>51458329

Oh right, I see now. In terms of censorship resistance that's quite a big difference indeed.

Ima look into PoS/PoW hybrid chains, maybe they can offer the best of both worlds (assuming what they do is forcing miners to both hash and stake).

[Anonymous No.51458500]

>>51458145
it doesn't matter if they censor or not, it will go through sooner or later

[Anonymous No.51458506]

>>51452196
And here's why that's a good thing!

[Anonymous No.51458512]

>>51458462
ok but how is that relevant. this is completely outside of PoS/PoW
>>51458480
why would l2 be a security? what does that even mean. L2 doesn't even need a token.
>if the OFAC tells Coinbase to censor a transaction to North Korea they will censor zee transaction
the more important part is if they orphan blocks with it

an important fact you're missing is that all this staking distribution happened before the tornado sanction, people are much less happy about staking on coinbase now, but can't move until withdrawals

[Anonymous No.51458527]

>>51453684
You're actually retarded, anon. Or a third worlder/ESL; he was implying you are a bitcuck.

[Anonymous No.51458526]

>>51458432
>Tornado Cash
Not censored yet. But OFAC sent the shot across the bow. The creator is in jail pending some unknown charges. The code is now illegal for US users. Now, if OFAC goes to an exchange and does tell them to censor, what's the exchange going to do? Tell the US Government to fuck off? Let me know how that goes.

[Anonymous No.51458530]

>>51458526
well coinbase sued the us government and promised to shutdown staking if they are forced

[Anonymous No.51458536]

>>51458512
If eth users aren't livid about TC censorship, they're not going to do shit about staker censorship. They can't do anything to protest but sell.

[Anonymous No.51458552]

>>51458536
everyone got angry, what do you want people to do exactly? armed revolution?

[Anonymous No.51458557]

>>51458512
>L2
I am talking about every L2 token, like mostly everything built on ETH. And it is a security of the SEC says so. See XRP.

[Anonymous No.51458575]

>>51458552
No, 10% of eth users who are educated cypherpunks got angry. 90% of eth users who are normalfag speculators don't do shit. This will be same reaction to staker censorship.

[Anonymous No.51458582]

>>51458575
maybe if those 10% are whales that control 80% of the supply

[Anonymous No.51458587]

>>51458530
>CB
CB is a piker in the world of finance. Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citi will become the primary stake holder and will use this position to maintain the current regulator/government/bankster cartel. You vill own nothing and you vill be happy.

[Anonymous No.51458593]

>>51458582
>maybe if those 10% are whales that control 80% of the supply
maybe BUT those 10% are whales that control 80% of the supply*

[Anonymous No.51458596]

>>51450958
who do you think was doing the mining in the first place
obviously this was never decentralized tech, the validation process is too detached from the mining process, it was designed to be centralized from day 1

[Anonymous No.51458603]

>>51458587
if financial institutions manage to buy majority of eth, that means eth goes to trillions in market cap first

[Anonymous No.51458610]

>>51458530
> sued the us government
The courts of the US are part of the US government. You promote a plutocracy.

[Anonymous No.51458615]

>>51458575
Ever heard the Bankless podcast? This is when I realized mETHheads are reddit tier thinkers

[Anonymous No.51458623]

>>51458603
> I want someone to buy a majority of eth
You support a plutocracy furthermore.

[Anonymous No.51458631]

>>51458610
>You promote a plutocracy.
every system is some version of a plutocracy, the only question is what type of wealth determines power
in pow, it's external resources, which gives corporations and states power
in PoS, it's coins, which gives early adopters power
that's it, that's your choice, there's no 'power to the people' choice

[Anonymous No.51458638]

>>51458495
>>51458329

Actually, censoring means not mining selfishly anymore, and non-selfish mining would be pretty easy to detect. If someone mines a block that doesn't include the transaction in the mempool with the highest fee... just ignore that block. So now instead of censoring, all they're doing is sanctioning.

So yes, a censorship attack right now would work, but I think it would be pretty straightforward to fork with a workaround.

I'll look more into it, it's interesting stuff.

[Anonymous No.51458641]

>>51454520
this, BTC will be banned, they are already drip feeding this signal to media. it'll be labelled eco terrorism. you wait and see. crypto is dead

[Anonymous No.51458670]

>>51458631
Fuck off with that debunked propaganda; as I said: you reek that you only try to fool children here.
Pools are mainly common Joes who can switch pool or even asset at any time.
PoS is PROGRAMMATICALLY a plutocracy and even the entry price is steep.

[Anonymous No.51458672]

>>51458603
Correct. ETH will become a 5 figure assets, it might even flippen. Then, the banksters will exert controls like censoring. At that point, all of the redditors will have to decide if they want to social slash their massive ETH bags down to ETC levels. They won't. That is not the hill they will die on. They will comply and accept the social controls put in place.

[Anonymous No.51458700]

At the end of the day we have two camps here. Those who openly want centralized government controlled e-coins and those who are talking about the OG reason crypto exists in the first place.

I'd suggest to ask for your local bank to hold your wealth if you're so eager for centralized government control.

[Anonymous No.51458702]

>>51458380
kek i'm not mining on my own dime
fuck my landlord

[Anonymous No.51458717]

>>51458638
Selfish mining is something separate, dunno why you mentioned it
>If someone mines a block that doesn't include the transaction in the mempool with the highest fee... just ignore that block
mempool isn't part of the consensus, it's impossible

ethereum actually has a very complex research going on to prevent censorship by allowing earlier validators to force future validators to include transactions
this is to prevent orphaning blocks as a way to enforce censorship
https://notes.ethereum.org/@fradamt/H1ZqdtrBF

bitcoin just ignores the issue thinking the original design is magically censorship resistant
>>51458670
>Pools are mainly common Joes who can switch pool or even asset at any time.
normal people are completely irrelevant in PoW. Normal people can actually generate blocks in their home in PoS.
It's not even comparable.

[Anonymous No.51458746]

>>51458717
> normal people are completely irrelevant in PoW
Fuck you and die. Your entire propaganda about it is based on "pools being too big". They are too big because the common Joes flock to them you piece of shit; but they don't HAVE to flock to them; with PoS their wealth would be locked on chain.

[Anonymous No.51458749]

>>51458717
>normal people are completely irrelevant in PoW. Normal people can actually generate blocks in their home in PoS.
It's not even comparable.
CPU mining?

[Anonymous No.51458776]

>>51458717
>>51458746
For reference, I generated a monero block last night on my laptop with P2Pool.

[Anonymous No.51458778]

>>51458631

this is fucking bullshit

pow is capitalism
pos is fuedalism

[Anonymous No.51458816]

>>51458746
>but they don't HAVE to flock to them
Pools are obligatory in PoW because of how small the chance to make one block is.
It's possible to stake $10M worth of eth on a home pc, but $10M of asics is a really big operation.
>>51458749
you won't mine a btc block on a cpu in a million years
>For reference, I generated a monero block last night on my laptop with P2Pool.
because daily block reward is $62k which makes it insecure
>>51458778
There's nothing capitalistic about useless work for the sake of work.
The only system it resembles is marxism.

[Anonymous No.51458819]

There's no point discussing it much. Ask people if they want a system that the rich MUST control it or a system that that nobody SHOULD control it.

You'll get the right answer.

[Anonymous No.51458826]

>>51458717
>mempool isn't part of the consensus, it's impossible

Well, some kind of heuristic then. Granted it's not as straightforward as with PoS.

>>51458717
>bitcoin just ignores the issue thinking the original design is magically censorship resistant

Bitcoin is basically set in stone. Which is both its strength and its weakness. But in the face of adversity it should be possible to change it. Eth pulled the DAO fork, so it proves anything is possible.

[Anonymous No.51458830]

>>51458816
> how small the chance
It doesn't matter. They don't have to be on the same pool. They don't even have to go to someone else's pool and they can invite others to their own.

[Anonymous No.51458869]

>>51458819
>PoS
random anon with a computer
>PoW
big company with employees owning pic related
that's what you are defending
>>51458830
going to another pool won't help you if you're mining in America, like most miners will be in 2023.
Good luck hiding pic related from the government.
If you're mining with one asic in a home - you're irrelevant compared to pic related

[Anonymous No.51458876]

>>51458816
>you won't mine a btc block on a cpu in a million years
I'm talking about monero, I don't care about BTC. We use the CPU-limited RandomX proofs.

[Anonymous No.51458934]

>>51458869
Fuck you and die you propagandist piece of shit. Not everyone has 32 ETH and most of the stake is already controlled effectively by the US government and other governments by the known entities who own the stake.

You will never prove plutocracy is the right approach you piece of shit and you will never prove you are even crypto anymore.

[Anonymous No.51458950]

>>51458869
kek

"What I have done" -- Satoshi upon seeing a mining operation

Still better than PoS but def a silly way to spend earth's resources.

[Anonymous No.51458968]

>>51458934
>Not everyone has 32 ETH
yes, but many more people have 32 eth than own big mining facilities.
It's also much easier to be anonymous.
>You will never prove plutocracy is the right approach
Both PoS and PoW rely on different forms of wealth to control consensus.
Why is a mining company better than one random guy who accumulated eth for years?

[Anonymous No.51458999]

>>51458950
Don't fall for the plutocratic piece of shit. 0 energy is wasted; 100% of it goes to decentralization.

Their ONLY argument is if that room goes to 51% on network hash and it's less than 0.1%.

[Anonymous No.51459014]

>>51458968
Shut the fuck up and die. Only if that room goes to 51% total hash rate you have ANY argument.

You arguments only work on extremist leftist children from reddit.

[Anonymous No.51459039]

>>51459014
Mining facilities are impossible to hide because they're too big and consume too much energy.
This means they will enforce regulations.
Staking only requires a pc and internet.
It's much, much easier to do it anonymously.

[Anonymous No.51459040]

>>51452536
miners are compensating

[Anonymous No.51459060]

>>51459039
Moron, you START with plutocracy with proof of STAKE. Satoshi starts with at least trying for NOBODY to have 51% hash rate.

[Anonymous No.51459080]

>>51459060
are you a salty gpu miner because you have zero arguments, just irrational anger

[Anonymous No.51459104]

>>51459080
I have never mined since the first days of crypto. The point is at the core of what PoS is.
It STARTS with requiring a plutocracy while PoW tries to have neutrality.

[Anonymous No.51459126]

>>51459104
Mining hardware is a form of wealth.

[Anonymous No.51459142]

>>51459126
It is not locked-on chain, it does not directly control the chain BY CODE, and nobody can do ANYTHING if they don't have 51% of the world hash rate.

[Anonymous No.51459181]

>>51459142
you can't censor the chain without majority of stake too, so what's the problem exactly

[Anonymous No.51459201]

>>51459181
That's the point of the OP. There is already majority of the stake by known entities, all of them in a position to be directly ordered by the US and other governments (and if it's not easy yet: it's in a position to become easily worse).

[Anonymous No.51459306]

>>51456239
Do you retards honestly think the 'attack' is going to be straightforward? Coinbase will be told
>you are either with the terrorists/russians or you are with us
And people will accept it as wallets are frozen.

[Anonymous No.51459323]

>>51458876
>I'm talking about monero, I don't care about BTC. We use the CPU-limited RandomX proofs.

If bitcoin had RandomX since day 1 it would have been the same. We'd have rooms full of powerful custom designed CPUs and you couldn't mine a block in a million year.

>>51458816
>It's possible to stake $10M worth of eth on a home pc, but $10M of asics is a really big operation.

This is unfortunately so true. How many bitcoin maxis even bother mining (in a non-insignificant way)? It's probably close to zero. Whereas staking is easy as pie.

(I still think PoS is shit but for other reasons)

>>51458999
>Don't fall for the plutocratic piece of shit. 0 energy is wasted; 100% of it goes to decentralization.

I know the benefits outweigh the cost, but I still wish there was a better solution.

Imagine if you told people that you leave your car running at all times because that's how you secure a payment platform (and make few bucks). How could they not look at you like you're fucking nuts? And wait until they see the guy who bought a 100 Ferrari's and keeps them idling in a big garage. lmao.

It doesn't make it any less revolutionary and worth doing, but you gotta admit it's pretty silly.

[Anonymous No.51459334]

>>51450958
who cares, Ethereum was already centralized. Any PoW algorithm that doesn't utilize CPU dominance is centralized and easy for a government to attack because the majority of hash rate will be put together into warehouses or large farms when the hash rate should be spread thin amongst many.

[Anonymous No.51459375]

>>51459323
So funny, rooms full of CPUs wouldn't exist because it wouldn't be profitable. You can't just easily link up a bunch of CPUs like you can GPUs or ASICs.

[Anonymous No.51459378]

>>51459201
>There is already majority of the stake by known entities
Coinbase has 12.5%, lido is international and distributed internally, binance is not american
while american btc miners are almost at 40% and they are known - because they are all registered companies

and the pool distribution happened only before the tornado sanction, people will withdraw and solo stake after withdrawals

[Anonymous No.51459380]

>>51459104
>It STARTS with requiring a plutocracy while PoW tries to have neutrality.

That's actually kind of an argument in defense of Ethereum, which started with PoW then switched to PoS, which is infinitely better than "pure" PoS, because if you start with PoS all you get is absolute self-referential horseshit.

[Anonymous No.51459455]

>>51459323
>We'd have rooms full of powerful custom designed CPUs and you couldn't mine a block in a million year
There is no such thing, as any randomx-optimised CPU will not be able to compete on price/performance with the massive economy of scale of generic CPU. Also, monero mining is not profitable. There is no reason to create a server farm for profit unless you can reliably steal electricity and hardware.
Also, we have implemented P2Pool. everyone gets small shares of a mined block so there is no need for centralized pools.

[Anonymous No.51459484]

>>51459375
>So funny, rooms full of CPUs wouldn't exist because it wouldn't be profitable. You can't just easily link up a bunch of CPUs like you can GPUs or ASICs.

Most retarded shit I read all day. Amazing.

[Anonymous No.51459586]

>>51459484
What do you know about XMR mining? There are no "CPU mining farms", retard it's just botnets and home miners. There is no barrier to entry in CPU mining so it's not profitable to do EVER unless you straight up steal electricity.
If you have that much CPU power in one place, you can rent it out to do useful shit instead.

[Anonymous No.51459781]

>>51459126

except miners are forced to sell so in fact give back to the community by providing liquidity on the network while also securing the network

>>51459380
PoS just enforced plutocracy as the rich just gain more and more control over “consensus”.

Sure you have to have a lot of money to own a big mining farm but it comes at a cost and the coins get redistributed eventually. Also the mining itself doesn’t give the miners control over the network, they just execute the mining software.

>>51458816
>There's nothing capitalistic about useless work for the sake of work.
The only system it resembles is marxism.

okay, now I know you are a moron. The entire point of work is to reach consensus, not your aristocratic kumbayah where nodelords just vote on which block they like the most. Freedom unironically isn’t free.

It’s not Marxist you cretin, it’s capitalist. PoS is fucking fuedalism.


Finally, answer me this. Which makes more money, $10,000 staked in shithereum at 3.4% apy or $10,000 spent on an asic mining for 12 months. Obviously electricity price will determine profitability, but the answer should be clear.

[Anonymous No.51459798]

>>51459455
>Also, monero mining is not profitable.

The only reason for that (that I can think of) is that a large enough share of the hashrate comes from people mining for the sake of it, unconcerned by profits.

If Monero was mainstream the price would be much higher, making mining profitable, and there would be CPU farms. Am I wrong?

[Anonymous No.51459817]

>>51459781

also any fucking Joe can mine, it’s not like you need to run some kind of mining cartel to make any money, your profitability is only limited by the price of electricity/hardware. Even poorfags could mine as long as they had cheap electricity.

[Anonymous No.51459826]

>>51459586

Yes, but it's not because they're "difficult to link".

[Anonymous No.51459923]

>>51459817
>also any fucking Joe can mine

Yeah but they won't bother. Nobody wants to babysit an asic. Beside it's a fire hazard. But they'll happily make a few click in order to stake. That's why zoomers love PoS. It goes with the times.

[Anonymous No.51460040]

>>51457569
Finally. It is not sacred bitcoin that is going to be banned, but vulgar ethereum. The heretics will pay the price for desecrating our holy creed.

[Anonymous No.51460227]

>>51459378

So is staking on Lido safe or not?

[Anonymous No.51460293]

>>51454073
>this is a logical fallacy, work does not equal value, a ditch dug by hand for 10 hours is not more valuable than a ditch dug in 30 minutes by a backhoe

That's not what this is. This is going from digging a ditch to just saying a ditch was made and then jerking off

[Anonymous No.51460303]

>>51457682
>It cost 2Bil to control a Network value at 400Bil at the moment

The amount of stupidity coming from this guy on his firsst sentence

[Anonymous No.51460348]

>>51452703
>glownigger copium
you hate to see it

[Anonymous No.51460391]

>>51457752
Not him but ASIC's helps with the centralization of a Network, the point of Decentralizing with crypto originally was to mine the coins by using consumer grade technology aka consumer CPU's/GPU's, no specific machinery to mine the coin.

The only reason why BTC allow ASICS is because the Network grew way too fucking fast, making it impossible to sustain the Network security unless ASICS were introduced, new GPU only coins have the benefit of organic grow.

[Anonymous No.51460638]

>>51452703
CCP Chang detected

[Anonymous No.51461378]

not like groups of people aren't doing a big chunk of the mining before the merge...

both POW and POS run on the same illusion

you can mine yourself
you can stake yourself

but the big chunk is still done by small groups of people with billions of money

[Anonymous No.51461777]

>>51461378
I think the biggest difference is that when you contribute hashing power to a pool, you're not putting up your equipment at risk of theft. With staking you have to provide your ethereum and there is always this inherent risk of theft. I think the first big heist on ETH POS will sour most people's opinions on it.

[Anonymous No.51461984]

>>51461777

You can pool stake while keeping custody afaik.

[Anonymous No.51462270]

>>51458869
Try to clear your thinking
There is nothing magical about PoS that somehow gives the little weak anon superpowers
PoW and POS both favor the strong, and cartels of strong organized men, as is natural, following laws of god and the multiverse
If you think more clearly you will see war is beautiful & natural. I love war. PoW is an extension of war into cyber space. Because the cartel of attacking miners can be detected & counterveiled. Hashpower is physical, and can be physically attacked
POS is just an abstract game. There are strengths, but security is the weakness. You will never know when the network is under attack or whereabouts of the censoring cartel. They just get richer and there is absolutely no way to counterveil. If this is what you want then be honest

[Anonymous No.51462356]

>>51450958
work as designed. GO for institution to join the party. who give a fuck about the tech or if it is in crypto spirit. I just want it to go higher and sell. Is this /philosophy ?

[Anonymous No.51462613]

>>51457463
>t. doesn't know what sybil attacks are

[Anonymous No.51462733]

>>51459323
> t it's pretty silly
It's not silly. It's the price for decentralization. The alternative is to have 1 guy solving it all ..and 1 guy manipulating it all.

[Anonymous No.51462768]

>>51462356
> in crypto spirit
it rapes the crypto spirit and it's not crypto anymore
it's plutocracy
it's centralization

[Anonymous No.51462796]

>>51462270
> both favor the strong
difference is, PoS REQUIRES a plutocracy (and starts with a guaranteed one), PoW TRIES to have neutrality (avoidance of 51% attacks) and begins with neutrality (lack of 51% attacks).

[Anonymous No.51462944]

>>51457973
>privacy
The essence of privacy is not to evade government orders or policies rather it is to shield wallet transactions from the public view.

[Anonymous No.51463527]

>>51452196
How can I stake to bring this down (by 0.0001 blocks / 1000)?

[Anonymous No.51463770]

>>51462944
kek. Jeets think privacy is all about money laundering.

[Anonymous No.51463858]

>>51458672
It's like people don't understand what The Great Reset is all about.

[Anonymous No.51463913]

>>51459378
You already admitted the big boy banks will take over the majority of the network and facilitate whatever the feds want done, Blackrock is already considered the 4th branch of the government.

[Anonymous No.51464051]

>>51458020
Okay but which will make me money? The glowie centralized coin that could see widespread adoption? Or the decentralized coin that governments hate?

[Anonymous No.51464078]

>>51458700
Which will make me more money?

[Anonymous No.51464093]

>>51464051
>>51464078
point is it's not crypto anymore, just some e-coin a literal bank would release.
you can't claim it's part of a crypto investment or trade at all anymore.

[Anonymous No.51464109]

>>51452703
kys you retarded eth bagholder

[Anonymous No.51464114]

>>51464093
ok but who cares

[Anonymous No.51464122]

>>51464093
I know what you mean, but anon I'm poor. And personally I've seen who wins in the end. Not the little guy. Globohomo does, everytime. But really its not even about that, I just want to pump what little bags I could afford. If its some government e-coin o some decentralized based coin, it makes no difference to me. I'd love to see the true vision for crypto happen, sure, but I just need money anon. And frankly I'm far too blackpilled to give a shit.

[Anonymous No.51464137]

>>51464114
>>51464122
It's irrelevant what predictions you do for the price. I could claim a government e-coin is shit and you could just hold fiat.

The main point is that the OG devs didn't use PoW because they hated the redditor vegans but because they wanted pure neutrality by avoiding 51% attacks and government control; eth just gave government control; but even if they claim they don't try to give government control: they gave FROM DAY ONE plutocracy control.

[Anonymous No.51464147]

>>51464137
Again, how will this effect the price?

[Anonymous No.51464149]

>>51464147
I said
>It's irrelevant what predictions you do for the price [it's subjective]. I could claim a government e-coin is shit and you could just hold fiat.

[Anonymous No.51464159]

>>51464149
fiat doesn't pump

[Anonymous No.51464164]

>>51464159
it doesn't go to 0 either, and a government would probably first protect its fiat, than an e-coin they took over because devs were brainlet.

[Anonymous No.51464179]

>>51454520
RandomX

[Anonymous No.51464181]

>>51454641
Kazakhstan will truly become the new center of the world as foretold by astrology
Navel of the world in the new Age of Aquarius

[Anonymous No.51464192]

>decentral ledger
>two dudes make >50% of the blocks
Oh vey

[Anonymous No.51464271]

>>51450958
monero was always the answer wasn't it?

[Anonymous No.51464490]

>>51454641
>All crypto is bitcoin or ethereum

[Anonymous No.51464525]

>>51450958
I trust smarter people than you anon
Vitalik has consistently been a class act

[Anonymous No.51464560]

>>51464525
He believes that he will literally live forever, "because new revolutionary tech".
Are you also that dumb?

[Anonymous No.51464958]

>>51464560
ETH is going to be the normiecoin, why do you still bother? countless projects out there are staying true to the original SN idea, why do you seethe at ETH moving forward (or whatever the direction...)

[Anonymous No.51464973]

>>51459781
>miners give back to the community by dumping on them
what the fuck am i reading
pow in 2022 is really third-world magical thinking garbage

[Anonymous No.51464981]

>>51464973
freedom isn't free. fees/mining is what you pay to have decentralization.

your local bank has also 0 fees but it's controlled by the state.

[Anonymous No.51465893]

>>51458934
>all that btc maxi cope propaganda
hey, fucktard. you can stake with rocket pool with 16 eth. you'll be able to stake a little bit with liquid staking. other chains like avax require just 25 avax to delegate and earn yield.

[Anonymous No.51466872]

Ethereum POS is broken and controlled by whales. You can't unstake once staked and to stake by yourself you need 30k usd+ of ETH. Compare that to ICP or NEAR where anyone can freely stake any amount at any time for between 10 and 20% APY. Ethereum isn't POS, it's a ponzi.

[Anonymous No.51467121]

>>51465893
You are a moron. The point is not how to suck the cock of the plutocracy, the point is that eth is PROGRAMMATICALLY a plutocracy now from day 1.

[Anonymous No.51469473]

>>51467121
pow suffers the same problem. govs can still force miners in the western world to censor tx. ok you can fork once, then what.
gj trying to control ALL PoS blockchains.

[Anonymous No.51469574]

>>51469473
debunked all the time; the "big pools" are random joes; they can switch pool at any time and they can even switch asset entirely.

pos has your wealth locked on-chain; most of it is already controlled by big known entities; it's easily controlled by governments.

worse of all: it's programmatically a plutocracy from day 1; pow tries from day 1 for nobody to have 51% hash power. unequal.

[Anonymous No.51469821]

>>51469574
>they can switch pool at any time
when a gov physically seizes the miners?
>muh premine
~90% of that premine was offered in a public presale that involved nearly 10,000 Bitcoin addresses, followed by 5 years of brutal market redistribution.

[Anonymous No.51470126]

>>51469821
you can't physically seize anonymous people.
the exchanges though have literal human IDs.

keep supporting the plutocracy of the preminers.

[Anonymous No.51470277]

>>51470126
>you can't physically seize anonymous people.
by miners i meant asics of course
>keep supporting the plutocracy of the preminers
seethe more mincel. nobody cares about your day 1 purity. nobody cares if the creators or those who funded them got more coins. they already traded part of that for fiat

[Anonymous No.51470365]

>>51457779
So coinbase now owns Eth. lol

[Anonymous No.51470369]

>>51455469
Bro Eth hasn't even coded in a withdrawal function for staking.
It will be like this for 6+ months at least.

[Anonymous No.51470385]

funny how most didn't realise that centralisation of power was inevitable and you were buying L1 with bettuh tech rather than stacking up to be one of the elites in this new system. Not late to do so, buy now and don't be a hater down the line.

[Anonymous No.51470429]

>>51457670
>Ethereum will fork away.
Lol no you can't.
You assholes can't even run a node or cash out of staking.

[Anonymous No.51470431]

>>51459798
it’s always been interesting to me how brutally unprofitable XMR mining is. I think this is for two reasons:
1. unlike with Bitcoin + ASICs, people mining XMR really are doing it on common sunk-cost PCs, oftentimes using flat-rate electricity, so they’re not technically running at a loss, and
2. many in the XMR community prefer to mine instead of buy through an exchange for privacy reasons, and are willing to effectively pay a small premium for that privilege

[Anonymous No.51470475]

>>51470431
XMR miners are all botnets and FPGAs, lol.
Nobody mines that legit it's all cheated hash and algorithms change all the time.

[Anonymous No.51470661]

>>51470475
There is no way you can mine XMR on an FPGA anymore. it's not competitive with off-the shelf CPUs.

>algorithms change all the time
Not since RandomX.

[Anonymous No.51470685]

>>51457564
Based, of course the miner losers are seething. Taking screen caps in this thread for later use.

[Anonymous No.51471002]

>>51470277
> nobody cares if they are FUCKED IN THE ASS by the plutocracy of pos
you don't
people with brains do.

[Anonymous No.51471094]

>>51464149
so everything you're saying is meaningless and we'll still get rich buying ETH? ok then, thanks for the history lesson champ

[Anonymous No.51471095]

>>51471002
nobody is fucked in the ass, powcel. you are so mad since the succesful merge and all the relevance and innovation happening on pos chains. the flippening is inevitable

[Anonymous No.51471860]

>>51471094
>>51471095
> I suck the cock of the plutocrats, I piss on the face of crypto, and I use government controlled e-coins.

[Anonymous No.51472490]

ETH holders got BTFO'd

[Anonymous No.51472598]

>>51471860
nice retort. i'm here to make money retard. i don't give a shit about fundamentals. i'll be buying at 1k and selling at 5k eoy. simple as

[Anonymous No.51473376]

>>51472598
If you don't give a shit about fundamentals, why are you in these markets, and not on the Indian stock exchange?

[Anonymous No.51473508]

>>51472598
lmao ur a delusional retard

[Anonymous No.51473621]

"crypto currency was a mistake"
- satoshi nakamora

[Anonymous No.51473640]

Better buy TSUKA ETH fags.

[Anonymous No.51473666]

>>51473621
"welcome to the party pal"
-nakatomi plaza

[Anonymous No.51473707]

>>51452703
Didn't China banned crypto mining last year?

[Anonymous No.51473857]

You'd better hope those exchanges don't decide to go net short

[Anonymous No.51473929]

>>51457463
Then Rick people split their funds over 1000000 wallets and make even more

[Anonymous No.51474041]

>>51450958
No thanks, I'll stick with Monero

[Anonymous No.51474096]

>>51455104
Do you have evidence of this? I always thought the original market maker was Alameda.

[Anonymous No.51474122]

>>51450958
I expected it to dump harder than it is, but it is dumping. It's going to bleed all the way down as people come to realize that it's pointless to hold a coin whose protocol is just whatever (((exchanges))) and (((whales))) say. Get out of this white while it's still up over 0.07 BTC per ETH. That's a steal!

[Anonymous No.51474176]

>>51452196
I'm waiting for the exit pump then I'm selling all of it.

[Anonymous No.51474234]

Why is everyone concerned about ETH suddenly when we have been using PoS L1s for a long time without 51% attacks? (ADA, AVAX, etc)

[Anonymous No.51474283]

>>51474234
because nobody actually uses those chains

[Anonymous No.51474324]

>>51474234
because it's the only crypto that moved from pow to pos, also #2 on coinmarketcap

[Anonymous No.51475081]

>>51471860
>>51469574
https://twitter.com/ercwl/status/1570675496794591233

[Anonymous No.51475179]

>>51474234
they're all shit.

>>51475081
again: not the same. miners can just switch pool or even asset anonymously. stake baggers have to be locked on-chain with their addresses and in most cases with their real IDs.

[Anonymous No.51475382]

>>51450958

[Anonymous No.51475432]

>>51450958
is there a simple way to stake less than 32 eth and avoid exchanges?

[Anonymous No.51475469]

For the longest time I really did believe that ETH was a genuine attempt to make blockchain tech useful and not a ponzi. But I just can't wrap my head around why "le deflationary burn mechanic" is in any way a useful feature of Ethereum other than "green line go up." So this thing is actually going to die now and it won't even have time to redeem itself with any of the planned future scaling developments that are currently in the "just trust me bro" phase.

Time to admit that blockchain and crypto is just not very useful. It's a solution in search of a problem. Less secure than conventional banking, more expensive, more transparent (oh, you're sending me crypto? here's my address, enjoy viewing my balance and my entire transaction history). Who is this even for?

[Anonymous No.51476080]

>>51475469
The OG purpose of crypto is to not be government controlled / decentralized. PoW does it perfectly or at least optimally and your local bank does 100% the opposite so by definition your local bank can not replace it.

PoS is algorithmically a plutocracy and in practice government controlled because the plutocracy is often IDed entities like exchanges so it violates the OG purpose ..algorithmically and practically.

[Anonymous No.51476184]

>>51454208
The ADL parties all night

[Anonymous No.51476222]

>>51475432
rocketpool

[Anonymous No.51476229]

>>51454302
That pink haired bitch has a brain

[Anonymous No.51476271]

Lido mined a block which had a Tornado.cash transaction in it yesterday. Lido has now violated US sanction and the entire staking pool can be target and seized, rendering steth instantly worthless. ETHfags are fucking insane. The US government can now, with cause, at any time they want, destroy the largest staking pool. This is a complete fucking disaster.

[Anonymous No.51476359]

>>51473857
Interesting. Anyone have any counter arguments to this? On a sidenote I'd assume this could become a major problem for DAO based projects. The main rationale is the DAOs have the best interest of the platform in mind because they hold equity in the form of governance tokens, but going net short their incentives flip too. Never thought about this before. Maybe this is a reason why a large part of the space has become so pro regulatory

[Anonymous No.51476542]

>>51476359
I like how some of them try to see if eth can prevent shorting on-chain.
It's irrelevant what the chain does. The attacker can short on-exchange.

[Anonymous No.51476620]

>>51464490
>t. can't read

[Anonymous No.51476672]

>>51476542
So the eth people have at least recognized this problem? What is Vitalik thinking? He's a smart guy, r-right. Maybe Vit is about to move on. For avantgarde people crypto is a 2017 thing

[Anonymous No.51477055]

>>51459781
This question interested me so I did a back of the envelope. At today's prices you could get 5 S19 pro antiminers. If you can source 10 cents a kilowatt they'll make you 67 bucks a month. So it's 804 bucks a year with btc, or 340 bucks a year with Proof-of-Vitalik

[Anonymous No.51477087]

>>51476672
He is a controlled golem, so the question is akin to asking, what will Hillary Clinton do when the Rothschilds tell her to shine their shoes?

[Anonymous No.51477103]

>>51474234
All the PoS shitcoins that have preceded ETH have actually benefitted from total centralization. Look at this shit.

https://fortune.com/2022/06/02/solana-shutdown-longest-time-offline-transaction-durable-nonce/

If you have total complete control over consensus in a PoS coin the only thing you have to do is not censor transactions to give the illusion of being a cryptocurrency. This has been allowed as regulators don't understand these shitcoins and have not made demands. Not to mention nothing useful happens on them. A centralized PoS coin is just a sharded SQL database with replication.

[Anonymous No.51477386]

>>51476672
>So the eth people have at least recognized this problem?
do you think the eth gigabrains never thought of this?
https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/1301298086027821056

[Anonymous No.51477419]

>>51476672

[Anonymous No.51477890]

>>51477386
>>51477419
Wow Vitalik is even dumber than I thought. The security of ETH is now tied to its market price. If a large staking pool gets slashed, even if it is insufficient for an adequate attack, ALL of the clients whose funds are allocated in that pool have their ETH go to zero, and the staked token they were issued goes to zero, and the reliability of the ETH ecosystem is threatened and ETH is perceived as less valuable, substantially lowering the price, meaning that the slashed coins go to the large stakers and the cheaper ETH is bought up to buy even more centralization. Also this retarded tweet assumes a zero cost of energy for PoW mining and fails to account for the fact that the attack has to be successful to damage the protocol whereas even unsuccessful attacks on ETH will completely fuck it up. This guy is literally retarded.

[Anonymous No.51478123]

The mETH cope is very real. Smart contract chains are essentially dead, or just globohomo abominations.

[Anonymous No.51478153]

>>51452196
Lido is 28 decentralized operators dipshit.

[Anonymous No.51478365]

>>51452703
Skitso cunt

[Anonymous No.51478433]

>>51450958
Vitalik looks like he molests kids.