/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.51329100]

To Attack ETH POS Network: Here's how much of the staked supply you (or your group/institution/government) will need

>33% ($6.18B): delay finality

>34% ($7.13B): cause double finality

>51% ($10.69B): censorship, control over blockchain future

>66% ($13.84B): censorship, control over blockchain future and past

Luckily, no entity, government, or group of people could amass $13.84B... r.. r right??

This is where Bitcoin mogs Proof of Stake.....

No matter how rich you are, you cant just order the mining equipment to take control of Bitcoin, the supply chain just doesn't allow for it, you can't physically do it. And that is why old-money hates Bitcoin, they can't simply just take it over through force, due to limitations on mining equipment.

But now with ETH, old money can come in and just take it over because there's no actual real world shit required thats limited in nature that money can simply magically produce instantly.

The trillionaire Saudi's can for example just buy majority share of ETH next week, but they'd NEVER be able to buy enough mining equipment to take over Bitcoin.


Now if you think like old money does, old money wants to own AND control what they put their money into, with bitcoin they an only OWN, but they cannot CONTROL. With ETH after the merge, you can now OWN and CONTROL.

[Anonymous No.51329120]

>>51329100
That’s why ETH will win
Enjoy the black pill

[Anonymous No.51329126]

Someone wants in

[Anonymous No.51329137]

You're spamming this as if we're not a dead bear market board. I've read this 3 times now

[Anonymous No.51329189]

>>51329100
Proof of Stake a shit. Nevertheless there are many PoS L1's that would require even less money to pull off an attack like this and yet so far it hasn't happened. Not really sure why.

[Anonymous No.51329571]

>>51329100
maybe you should stop with the mental gymnastics and just buy ETH? sorry that you're a bit slow, but there's still time to secure some wei before your bitcoin becomes worthless

[Anonymous No.51331151]

>>51329571
no thanks

[Anonymous No.51331182]

>>51329100
Good, if they buy trillions of dollars worth of ETH I will sell my stack and retire kek

[Anonymous No.51331311]

>>51329100
Price stays when I buy duhhduhuduhuduhuh.
That is you summed up
Imagine being you retard, just multiplying numbers and make FuD, as if you brainlet had any idea how any if these attacks work.
Keep seething Plebcoiners - at least you have a nice useless collectible to remind you how much of a retard you are in the future.

[Anonymous No.51331349]

>>51331182
NOOOO YOU CAN'T HECKING DO THAT, THEY CAN BUY HALF THE SUPPLY BECAUSE THEY JUST CAN OK???

[Anonymous No.51331361]

>>51331311
hello sir have you had any nice curry today sir? I enjoyed a rich keema matar sir.

[Anonymous No.51331380]

>if they buy tons of ETH to take over the network it means price gongo up!!

Wrong. You’re thinking that they will go on spot and max bid to buy, no, they will slowly accumulate by shorting the market into oblivion

Most of ETH is owned by buy who already have a 1000X - 10000X return

[Anonymous No.51331399]

>>51331349
U don't need to buy half the supply, u only need to buy half of the staked supply. Eth has enough volume to do this quite easily over some weeks of time, and given the eth apy% will be so low for staking, this will mean the amount youll need to buy is more like 5% of the total supply as nobody will stake.

[Anonymous No.51332221]

>>51329100
in other news, eth btc is doing well

[Anonymous No.51332273]

>>51332221
not as well as you'd hope given its largest most anticipated upgrade is around the corner, wouldn't you say?

[Anonymous No.51332296]

You can 51% attack plenty of PoW protocols for less than $100k lmao at the end of the day nobody cares

[Anonymous No.51332345]

>>51332296
PFFF lmao you are a top tier retard my friend

[Anonymous No.51332385]

>>51331399
>THEY CAN JUST STAKE EVERYTHING AT ONCE BECAUSE... THEY JUST CAN OK???!

[Anonymous No.51332437]

>>51329100
but they'd NEVER be able to buy enough mining equipment to take over Bitcoin.

Can buy the equipment from all the miners who are currently going broke now, they don't have to buy new equipment.They can also rent hashing power very easily.
Also if you spend $6billion for the first 33% of the supply, the next 33% is going to cost a lot more isn't it my little genius?
Miners are incentivised to sell mining equipment, where as stakers are not incentivised to sell their stake as it costs them nothing to run and never needs to be replaced so actually you are basically 100% incorrect in all your arguments.
fucking idiot

[Anonymous No.51332488]

Why would anyone risk their $14B of ETH being slashed by attacking the network? And what would it accomplish? It would be a major cluster fuck, but devs could just hard fork an older version of the chain and "undo" any damage caused. Exchanges will do what they always do with any illegitimately obtained coins, they'll blacklist the old chain and move over to the new one.

I also don't buy that hardly anyone will stake ETH. Once withdrawals are enabled a lot more people will jump in.

[Anonymous No.51332684]

>>51332488

Also assuming a 5% APY you could be earning $700m a year just by staking your $14B of ETH. How much more could you realistically stand to gain by overtaking and attacking the network.

[Anonymous No.51332712]

>>51329100
this thread got really long the other day and literally no one explicitly mentioned the biggest issue of steaking services on exchanges controlling a disgusting % of the corns. everything else that was mentioned is cringe fud in comparison. alternatively, what if some gov says ok you can pay your taxes in eth bro, and they decide to not sell their ether? these things seem like the most exploitable routes into making eth censored and therefore worthless (or worth a lot less, at least)

the pow attack vector that seems the most plausible is going after all US miners and telling them to censor/attack the network or else. to be fair, idk which is harder but pos makes me extremely nervous and pow just makes me kinda nervous that its not good enough. i think realistically though, at this point, that if either corn is exploited by a gov/oligarch class fags ppl wont regain confidence in fake internet money for years. the only thing going for it will be how hilariously orwellian everything else gets making it still worth tolerating.

[Anonymous No.51332775]

>>51332684
because I can prevent certain people from transacting on the network, causing more than $13b of damage with my $13b. I can stop businesses, I can stop rival countries. I can open shorts on eth collateralized stables and daos and turn my $13b into more. Endless power.

[Anonymous No.51332889]

>>51329100
>you can't physically do it
imagine being so retarded
there's nothing magical about $1B-$2B worth of chips, it would take some time yes but that's it
in practice america would tell miners that they have to enforce kyc and that would be it, mining is increasingly centralizing in america

PoW is fundamentally unable to resist governments because consensus relies on resources external to the system. There's no way to print eth to take over PoS, but mining equipment can always be acquired in some way.

[Anonymous No.51332945]

>>51332775
all attacks in PoS are one time because others can move to a fork withotu the attacker.
Under PoW there's no defense. How do you fork away from an attacker with gpu miners ready? You can't. You lost.
PoW is a scam.

[Anonymous No.51332991]

>>51332273
and yet you’re talking about it. seems it’s done it’s job

[Anonymous No.51333025]

>>51332889
>in practice america would tell miners that they have to enforce kyc and that would be it
its not as clean cut as this but yes this is the attack vector that matters

>PoW is fundamentally unable to resist governments because consensus relies on resources external to the system
meanwhile in reality PoW enjoyers could play the game of "buy the rules" that literally every other special interest on the planet is engaged in. people that own and operate power plants are unironically aligned with this special interest as well.

to be clear i replied because i think you're being disingenuous and trying to reduce what might happen to gay non arguments. i've openly stated in my other post idk what i think is more secure pow or pos.

[Anonymous No.51333085]

>>51333025
>meanwhile in reality PoW enjoyers could play the game of "buy the rules" that literally every other special interest on the planet is engaged in. people that own and operate power plants are unironically aligned with this special interest as well.
people that own power plants sell energy, america would just buy energy for mining as any other market participant
attacking bitcoin with regulations: easy for a state, becomes trivial in a year when >50% of mining will be in america because of energy prices
attacking bitcoin with pure money: cost about $1B-2B, possible for everyone, but no way to profit directly.

The real reason nobody attacks bitcoin is because it's irrelevant. Bitcoin could disappear tomorrow and expect for speculators nobody would notice. No actual economy relies on it, so there's no motivation to attack it for anyone.

[Anonymous No.51333210]

>>51332991
not reflected in the price, and I'm certainly not buying
>>51332945
The defense is it cannot happen. You cannot get your hands on enough physical components required to take over the mining pool. PoS can be ruined by one cashed up retard with access to a computer.

[Anonymous No.51333239]

>>51333085
>america would just buy energy for mining as any other market participant
not an instantaneous attack
>attacking bitcoin with regulations: easy for a state
and eth is different? lol, lmao. its a real problem. you seem to be pretending it only exists for the orange coin however.
>attacking bitcoin with pure money: cost about $1B-2B, possible for everyone, but no way to profit directly.
sounds similar to eth but more difficult to profit

>Bitcoin could disappear tomorrow and expect for speculators nobody would notice.
imagine believing this. if btc or ether fails fake internet money is going to flounder desperately for years and years.

again you seem really disingenuous trying to reduce complex situations to gay non arguments and should feel bad for being such a fag

[Anonymous No.51333294]

is this pasta from years ago?

1) marketcap for eth is $200B, not $20B

2) marketcap represents the price p one coin was traded for at instant t. it does not mean there's an infinite supply of coins available for sale at price p

stick with bitcoin mate. i'll think of you and all the other retards as my ratio long keeps printing

[Anonymous No.51333303]

>>51333210
>You cannot get your hands on enough physical components required to take over the mining poo
it's one multi-month order to tsmc to get enough asics to 51% btc.
there's no longer a shortage and waiting times are short, so in theory if you started today, you would be ready in Q4 2023 at the latest
sha256 asics + rent enough gpus to kill any gpu fork, if it happens. You are renting first so you can clean the supply.
>>51333239
>and eth is different? lol, lmao. its a real problem. you seem to be pretending it only exists for the orange coin however.
because in eth anyone can stake, including me in my home. I don't need any pool. I can make my own blocks. Mining is controlled by giant corporations that can't hide, and to make even one block per year you need way, way more energy that can be supplied without industrial connection. That's why PoS in ethereum is decentralized, and PoW in bitcoin isn't.

Home mining was the initial idea, but it disappeared very fast because mining has infinite economies of scale.

[Anonymous No.51333336]

>>51329100
You can't buy that much ETH without simultaneously pushing up the price, you'd then need to create a lot of new validators, they reach social consensus to slash your coins, it would end up being a very expensive donation to the Ethereum Foundation.

[Anonymous No.51333387]

>>51333333

[Anonymous No.51333738]

>>51333303
>PoS in ethereum is decentralized
i responded to this but apparently my post is spam and im not writing it again so i will just ask :

why is it not a problem that a huge % of supply is on exchanges or other consolidated steaking approaches?

[Anonymous No.51333885]

>>51333738
>why is it not a problem that a huge % of supply is on exchanges or other consolidated steaking approaches?
because if they start to attack the chain they can be forked away
separately from that, once withdrawals are online I think their fraction will go down a lot as they charge fees

[Anonymous No.51334034]

>>51329100
mETHheads come back to me honey...

[Anonymous No.51334050]

>>51333738
>steaking

[Anonymous No.51334288]

>>51334050
S T E A K I N G your C O R N S

>>51333885
why is retards getting annihilated because they did stupid shit with their corns that they don't understand not a problem for ethereum, or, more broadly, the acceptance of fake internet money in general?

[Anonymous No.51334309]

>>51331380
you're retarded if you think someone can buy 50% of supply without the price going up significantly.

[Anonymous No.51334400]

>>51333885
> eth would survive forking out the exchanges