/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.507543]

Save my country /biz/.

We are reaching in France unparalleled levels of dormant capital, combined with mad unemployment levels.
Unused capital is perhaps the worst thing that can happen to an economy. You wasted your money on literally nothing.

We've got people not working, factories not used, and it's not like we're not wanting for manufactured products.

Obviously lean management can solve dormant capital issues for a company. But can it solve it for a country?
How would you valorize those assets and manpower?

[Anonymous No.507546]

>>507543
Give them to Africa.

You people should be ashamed, all those kids are starving and you're here bragging about unused wealth….

[Anonymous No.507578]

>>507546
Africa is already in the country, we're feeding Africa under the form of welfare.

Thank socialism for high taxes, they're sometimes getting more money from welfare than they would from a low-end job.

[Anonymous No.507581]

>>507543
Less taxes, less labor laws (easier to hire and fire people, no minimum wage, no maximum working hours), less civil servants, less syndicates, and less protected professions.

France = saved.

[Anonymous No.507586]

>>507578
>>507546
But what's causing it do you think?
Traditionally we blame high company taxes. But company taxes should "just" make us run out of capital, not make it inactive.
So where does the issue stem from.

[Anonymous No.507595]

>>507586
High company taxes + high cost of labor + high taxes for investors (on gains and yield) + high euro of course = money goes out of businesses, money doesn't go in.

[Anonymous No.507603]

>>507595
>money goes out of businesses
But in that goes, it's money (not really money actually, mostly physical assets) IN businesses that doesn't do anything.

[Anonymous No.507605]

>>507603
*in that case

[Anonymous No.507813]

>>507543
I'd try to increase production of luxury goods/near luxury goods and ship them to south east asia. Whereas before you exported clothing, parfume and handbags to the Chinese rich, now you can also do the same to the Malay rich/Indonesian rich. In between 300M people there, I'm sure at least 1% will be able to afford and would be willing to buy luxury products. Make other products more affordable, France builds great things (Dassault Falcon for example), but not many people got 50M in the bank to buy one. Leverage existing knowledge and technology to make a very lighter, small jet that can be significantly cheaper. All of that is placeholders of course... what is needed is real innovation and industries. Space mining? Research into using anti-hydrogen for energy based on what CERN did so far? Something new and risky.

[Anonymous No.507852]

>>507586
In Canada we also have unused capital

companies are not spending because the financial crisis taught them loans can be hard to come by and because they know demand is not there

[Anonymous No.507862]

To what extent can France change its national fiscal and domestic policies without running afoul of the EU?

At the basic level you need to make France a better place to do business while reigning in social programs.

(dumb american here)

[Anonymous No.508038]

>>507543
improve your human capital

that's codespeak for get rid of blacks and muslims

there isn't a single black or muslim country, or even city on the planet that isn't either completely poor, or an oil dictatorship. that should tell you something.

real valuations don't like, chump

[Anonymous No.508061]

>>507543

I like France. They're the last country with a legitimate shot of saving the Euro from Germany's insane insistence on export-led internal devaluation.

The only hope is to convince the Eurozone to create nontrivial (5% or so) inflation in northern countries to speed the adjustment process. Good fucking luck (I mean it!) doing that short of helicopter drops, though- the ECB can't even manage to create 1% inflation, much less 5%, and everybody knows the Germans hate your guts right now, considering they're probably about to send in the Wehrmacht over your budget.

[Anonymous No.509512]

>>508061
>they're probably about to send in the Wehrmacht over your budget
As a Frenchman I laughed.
Where you from?

[Anonymous No.509528]

>>507543
Biggest problem about France is the extreme negative cultural attitudes toward business people. Horrible public policies result from that.

[Anonymous No.509529]

>>507852

There's plenty of demand, it just can't afford the expense.

[Anonymous No.509574]

frenchfag heren

to save France We need to cut retirement funding.
let everyone save for their old days. tired of losing 40% of my money to pay for old people that live in a carefree economy where people were getting raise every year.
also need to remove anyone with risky behavior from health care... you smoke no more health care for you. you drink too much same thing.
remove double nationality and welfare to only french citizen.
mandatory military sevice again to teach respect and class mixing to brats. use this military as some big project worker.

also complete decentralisation fuck paris centralizing everything it would allow people to leave that shithole and work all around France

[Anonymous No.509625]

>>509512

'Merica.

>>509529

>L’offre crée même la demande

Jesus you guys are bad at being socialist. This sounds like something Reagan would say.

[Anonymous No.509655]

>>509625
So as an American your view is that it's bad to devaluate a currency in favor of exports, but rather that one should want inflation? To what end? What does having inflation have with helping a country out?

[Anonymous No.509664]

>>509655

>it's bad to devaluate a currency in favor of exports

Nonono. In normal circumstances, if a country suffers a large shock like Greece or Ireland, then its currency will tend to devalue relative to placed that do better, like Germany. This makes it more attractive to buy things from them and their economy gets a boost. Likewise, Germany's currency would go up in value, meaning that they export less and therefore ensures that their economy doesn't overheat. Having a floating exchange rate functions as a free-market mechanism to ensure things balance out and stay stable.

Europe doesn't have that. Neither does the US, but when things get bad in some states, US states just send one another checks in the form of federal taxes and spending and everbody's cool with that- nobody in NY really cares about (or even thinks about!) the fact that their money is going to subsidize Florida's problems, even though the total amount comes to around $100bn every year (or roughly five times Greece's bailout every single year like clockwork)

But Europe lacks both these mechanisms- they can't have a "Greek-Euro" and a "Germany-Euro" and everybody gets super butthurt about having to directly subsidize countries doing poorly. This means that, as a mathematical fact, the only way left to fix things is to have a differential in inflation rates between these countries.

Roughly speaking, this number needs to total around 30% for Europe to be "fixed"- to eliminate the rise in labor costs in southern countries caused by the bubble. Since Germany's inflation rate is 1.5% and the PIIGS is around 0%, that means your problems will be fixed in around two decades, which is, ah, shit performance.

By contrast, if Germany's inflation rate goes up to 4% or 5%, then problems will be fixed by the end of the decade without to much trouble. So that's the argument, in a nutshell, for why Europe needs more inflation to resolve their problems.

[Anonymous No.509665]

>>509528

This. Switzerland and France have been sharing an international airport (Basel-Mulhouse-Freiburg) for years. All of a sudden Paris wants to disregard the contract and tax the whole airport according to French laws. They destroy business, impede investments, create uncertainty, piss everyone off and believe people and companies will just comply.

[Anonymous No.509702]

>>507543
Whenever a company tries to start any kind of reform in France, all the employees just strike until the reforms are undone.

Stop relying on the government to wipe your ass and do everything for you, relax employment laws and lower taxes all around.

[Anonymous No.509711]

>>509702

>Free Market will fix it
hahaha

>>509625
That's literally the opposite of what I was implying.

As OP said, means of productions are there. Unemployed are there. Factories are there. But they stand still. Industry is capable of producing plenty of shit consumers can't afford.
Consumers can't afford shit because wages stagnate or drop. Wages stagnate or drop because businesses don't produce. Businesses won't produce because they don't see people buying they shit. People can't be buying their shit because they can't afford it. Goto 1.

Politicians are scared of inflation because of trauma from 70s.

Oh well, on the plus side at least the environmentalist could be modestly happy that consumerism is a bit less reckless than it could be.

[Anonymous No.509717]

>>508061
the german internal devaluation scheme isn't so insane, really. it has lead to insanely low prices within germany, an export boom, a strong currency, etc.

the main problem is that the other europeans refuse to or are incapable of working as hard as the germans, or being as smart and thrifty. Which pretty much makes the monetary union untenable

[Anonymous No.509722]

>>509717
reply from frenchfag.
i dont mind working as long as the money is just
the problem in france is that we have such huge taxes on net salary that it prevent any employer to raise someone cause it will cost em twice as much. same thing with hiring.
i cant hire anyone cause if i do the net benefit wouldnt cover the expanditure of a few new salary. also past a certain amount of workers you are to provide comitte and other thing that would require a full time job that cant be afforded because of taxes etc etc
france needs a 6th republic and a full décentralisation if it wants to survive but the politics dont have the balls to stop the retierement and healthcare system.

[Anonymous No.509723]

>>509717

The problem is that Germans have good infrastructure, rule of law, good reputation - all of that is good. But it's very difficult for 'periphery' countries to compete with that and bring their own environment up to the same standards when they are already in financial stress.

Yeah, either the monetary union or German resistance to fiscal transfers will probably have to give. Dismantling the common currency would probably be least politically painful thing to do.

[Anonymous No.509740]

>>509711
A free-er market wil fix it.

[Anonymous No.509766]

>>509740

Market has been free enough to reconcile growing imbalance between accumulated savings and lackluster investment spending.

Its solution? Overinflated financial sector and debt bubble.

Lower taxes and waive regulation and that's precisely where financial capital will pour.

[Anonymous No.509769]

>>509717
>the main problem is that the other europeans refuse to or are incapable of working as hard as the germans, or being as smart and thrifty.

So there's some inherent qualities to Germans that make them superior- a "master race" among Europeans, if you would.

The other nations work plenty hard- literally every country in the PIIGS works more hours per worker than Germany. The problem is that their wages exploded during 2000-2007 whereas Germany's declined, so it's cheaper to pay Germans to produce with their lower relative wages. This has to be corrected. Either those countries endure massive deflation and unemployment and destruction of capital (as little as 6% deflation will destroy pretty much any incentive for productive investment, whereas 6% inflation barely registers), or Germans pay a few percent more on their bratwurst. Guess which one is less damaging in the long run for all parties.

[Anonymous No.509872]

>>509664
Understood. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.509874]

>>509723
>german law
>pay and your charge will 'disappear'

[Anonymous No.510468]

>>507543
This is all you french faggots fault for the worlds problems, you killed the king and now the world is burning till this very day.

[Anonymous No.510481]

>>510468
this

Bring back Louis

[Anonymous No.510753]

>>510468
>>510481
Shut the fuck up you americunt dumbasses

If it weren't for this noble Frenchman you'd be part of the commonwealth today.

[Anonymous No.510895]

And Europe is heading for another recession so hold onto your butts France.

[Anonymous No.510898]

>>510895
yep that s what happen when you let some stupid crook at strasbourg decide who can enter the EU. fuck having shitty country like rep tchec, slovenia, ukraine, poland etc etc
should have stop EU at germany france spain italy and belgium.

rest is just coat tail riding beggar

[Anonymous No.511099]

>>509722
I am quite familiar with the situation.

Thankfully you guys are finally starting to dismantle the welfare state. Kick out the algerians and west africans and maybe your workforce can rise above iq 85 once again, and compete with the germans and swiss

>>509723
if the italians, french, and spanish want to be part of the first world, they will have to accept sensible welfare policy, and learn to do math. there's no if ands or buts about it.

dismantling the euro would put germany instantly in 1990s japan crash territory though, so draghi is holding merkel hostage at the moment.

the eurobond market is going to cause a worldwide collapse.

>>509769
germans have been the center of european industry since the end of the napoleanic era. even then, the french empire was an empire based off of trade connections, political unity, and sheer mgiht of the size of french territory. It was never primarily a technological empire, but one of administration.

Germany will probably always be the center of a civilized europe. The closer america comes to falling from its status as sole world power, the sooner germany can begin restructuring europe as a germanophone one.

Even if spain and italy were able to lower their wages vis a vis the germans, they have relatively little to offer.

an italian bachelors graduate has a lower reading level than a german or swiss high school grad.

their workers are worthless. revaluing their wages won't make them better at manufacturing small motors.

The primary markets right now, america, china, and japan, are currently retooling for production and management in southeast asia because even rice farming peasants without paved roads can do the job as well as the germans, and much better than southern europeans.

and no, it's not as cheap as you think.

[Shut it down. No.511223]

>>510753
>you'd be part of the commonwealth today.
>Implying that this would be a bad thing
>Believing the 'spreading freedumbs and democracy' bull shit narrative.

Lafayette was a good little Goy and so are you.

[Anonymous No.511225]

>>510753
>you'd be part of the commonwealth today.
>Implying that this would be a bad thing
>Believing the 'spreading freedumbs and democracy' bull shit narrative.

Lafayette was a good little Goy and so are you.

[Anonymous No.511238]

>>507546
"Africa" is the victim of first world farming subsidies making them unable to compete in a world market. It's not like the poor kid at school you give your extra pop-tarts to.

[Anonymous No.511242]

>>509702
this is a huge problem in Spain, too. Dunno about other countries, but Spain and France seemed pretty gimme moneys or I complain

[Anonymous No.511337]

>>509574
merrican, lived in france for a while
also can ypu make it so that the payed vacation thing stops.


the entire time i was there everyone was on vacation, and since i was in the south: Carcassonne to Nice all year people were on vacation somehwere.

made it difficult to actually get amything done

[Anonymous No.512384]

>>507543
merge into Germany and let Angela manage your shit

[Anonymous No.512411]

>>512384

germany pls. You're about to go into a recession in the next four months, you're hardly one to be giving advice.

[Anonymous No.512459]

>>512384
I say send all the unemployed French to Germany by rail car. I hear Germany has some under-utilized rails and plenty of housing in a camplike setting. Even stoves and delousing centers.