/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.50072362]

Retard here. If mining bitcoin is no longer profitable how does the network even function?

[Anonymous No.50072399]

They do it in places where energy is nearly free

[Anonymous No.50072401]

>>50072362
The NSA is mining it to prepare an attack.

[Anonymous No.50072402]

>>50072362
How does the network function after all bitcoin have been minted?

[Anonymous No.50072444]

>>50072362
idk; when oil was literally -$ a barrel why were people producing it?

To stockpile you dingus

[Anonymous No.50072463]

Bitcoin reward schedule is fixed, what the miners really are doing is arbitraging electricity prices with bitcoin payout at current prices. If bitcoin price goes down miners mine less, usually by flushing out poorly positioned and levered miners.

[Anonymous No.50072522]

The network becomes completely compromised again at 10K because that is where profitability of the most efficient new gen models are. And what is really insidious about it is that they can be turned on at truly low volume times afterward for short 51% attacks.

[Anonymous No.50072534]

>>50072399
If you make a small power plant in an area with no grid power you can't sell your excess to the grid. If you have internet you can sell it using mining.
In that case how much you get is almost irrelevant, it's the only way to get money for your excess power that would be wasted otherwise.

[Anonymous No.50072559]

>>50072362
Miners eat the loss in the bear markets because they know it's gonna keep going up in the long run.

[Anonymous No.50072589]

>>50072444
Oil unlike bitcoin is a necessity so your statement is complete shit.

[Anonymous No.50072592]

>>50072399
This
Remote oil fields where they need to burn off extra gas is being used to generate power to running mining rigs.

[Anonymous No.50072613]

>>50072559
>Miners eat the loss in the bear markets because they know it's gonna keep going up in the long run.
No. They aren't altruistic. They make money off the spread between energy prices and BTC spot price. The recent hoarding was to prevent having to sell into low liquidity and tanking the price even more.
Only truly trapped overleveraged idiot miners like >>50072534 are going to eat losses.

[Anonymous No.50072661]

>>50072362
>>50072399
>>50072402
>>50072444
>>50072463
>>50072522
>>50072534
It always surprises me just how fucking little people who have spent YEARS on /biz/ actually know about crypto.
Like you literally haven't even read the wikipedia page lmao

[Anonymous No.50072691]

>>50072559
>>50072589
>>50072592
>>50072613
many more cases lmao >>50072661

[Anonymous No.50072695]

>>50072661
yes

t. havent read a single white paper or wiki but invested whole life savings in crypto

[Anonymous No.50072700]

>>50072661
>no questions dummies!

[Anonymous No.50072743]

Mining is a call option on the price of bitcoin. There is always a price at which someone will buy a call option. So there will always be miners. The network auto-adjusts to the amount of hash power provided.

[Anonymous No.50072784]

>>50072402
Miners will only receive fees from transactions and no new bitcoin. There is argument about whether this fee market will be sufficient.

[Anonymous No.50072902]

>>50072613
In the example given after covering the hardware everything is pure profit no matter how low the rewards go. There's never a reason to stop mining. That's an extreme example but it does demonstrate that there is no specific point where mining stops being profitable. If you were mining on consumer electricity prices you were always a retard destined to be edged out.
>>50072661
Could you make a more braindead post if you tried?

[Anonymous No.50072939]

>>50072784
Mining fees create a "tax" on Bitcoin which creates demand. That same fee also helps distribute BTC away from wallets a few Sats at a time. Finally, they stimulate money velocity within the network as miners collect fees but eventually sell or use the collected rewards. They definitely create value after the last Sat is mined.

[Anonymous No.50072965]

>>50072700
Yes, if you're on the internet and still ask ultra basic google-questions like "what is a car" then your dumb. If you also invest money in car companies you're completely retarded.

>>50072902
>Could you make a more braindead post
>says the guy who keeps parroting factual errors
lmao

[Anonymous No.50073050]

look for a utility company that has a coupon program.
2 weeks free energy and such stuff

[Anonymous No.50073059]

>>50072402
How does the network function after the year 2038 when the timestamps overflow?
>>50072965
>says the guy who keeps parroting factual errors
Your post does not contain any attempt to convey any information. The reason retards like you never say anything is because you're all scared little cuckboys. You're afraid to actually say anything because you know it's going to turn out to be retarded under scrutiny. You are braindead. There's nothing there.

[Anonymous No.50073165]

these are the people who babble on about price going up or down every single day. absolute fucking retarded freaks. I hate what Bitcoin has become. On the bright side, all of you will paperhands your coins to me in time because you have no idea what you purchased or how it works, you just think price go up. I want to see you lose it all you retards, gamble away and line my pockets. U were never meant to win.

[Anonymous No.50073176]

>>50072362
they do it for free

[Anonymous No.50073199]

>>50073059
You literally don't even know how mining difficulty works. It's so fundamental that you can't summarize crypto in 10 points without including it, and you still don't know lmao. Go ahead, explain it correctly without fucking up your parroted bullshit you posted earlier.
Here I will help you https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=hurr+durr+how+does+bitcoin+mining+woekr%3F

[Anonymous No.50073203]

Had a coworker talk about how he has a few acres of farmland and how he might use it to install farmland. That got me thinking: if I bought farmland and installed solar panels how much energy could I expect to generate in order to mine? Would it be any good just to offset the costs of electricity?

[Anonymous No.50073207]

>>50072399
>They do it ... free
did someone call?

[Anonymous No.50073217]

>>50072534
lmao so in other words crypto is proof of unnecessarily damaging the environment and increasing humanity's carbon footprint and keeping all of the product for yourself, like without even contributing to society via the grid, and doing it out in otherwise pristine wilderness
what a bright future it has hahahahahh

[Anonymous No.50073220]

>>50073203
> to install solar panels
I'm retarded.

[Anonymous No.50073252]

>>50073203
>spend 3m$ on land and equipment to make 5000$/month in profit
great idea retard.

[Anonymous No.50073350]

>>50072362
It's a game of chicken. When weak miners capitulate, total hash power drops until it's once again profitable for the remaining miners.

>>50072661
>>50072691
This anon is a retarded nigger.

[Anonymous No.50073475]

>>50073199
What's so hard about just stating what you think is wrong instead of making multiple blog posts with absolutely no content?
What the fuck is wrong with your brain? Nobody reasonable with a working brain would ever act like this. After making these posts you can't deny the objective fact that you're retarded.
It's even possible I agree with your criticisms of my points, I have no idea because you never fucking stated them you mindless vegetable.

[Anonymous No.50073576]

>>50073252
Your math is fucked. Farmland is $2-5k per acre. Let's say a few acres is $15k.
The question is what's the cost of solar panels + batteries, regular maintenance, taxes, etc versus the returns from small scale bitcoin mining.

>>50073203
It's an interesting question, I might do some back of the napkin math to check it out.

[Anonymous No.50073580]

>>50073217
If you had even a hint of an imagination or competence you would see that this process rewards sustainable green infrastructure. It's the only economic incentive to build a hydro dams for a random nigger village.
Even economies that can't sustain a power plant with their economic output can fund one using mining and use a portion of the output for their community.
The burger mind can't conceive of energy except in terms of oil and coal. If you're burning fuel to mine you're one of the retards that will end up bankrupt.

[Anonymous No.50073697]

The amount of idiot midwit answers in this thread makes me think we are still early. When the price is below Charles’ “bands” indicator it doesn’t mean that mining is necessarily unprofitable until it goes back above it. When miners unplug because too expensive to mine, difficulty goes down, it adjusts. Once difficulty is down, less energy is needed to mine and so the price can stay at the same level that whole time and still, miners profitability can be reinstated. If it went to something like 3k like retards are calling, difficulty would become so low you would probably be able to mine well with basic equipment. This would mean people flooding the network with shitty miners, and difficulty increases. It’s an opportunistic game, doesn’t have shit to do with the price as long as it’s cheaper to mine then to buy on market. Very rarely was it cheaper to buy than to mine, almost impossible now.

[Anonymous No.50073735]

>>50073217
Miners effectively seek out places with large amounts of surplus energy which allows them to increase their profit margins. Iceland for example likes mining because its effectively subsidising their expansion of geothermal energy. Rather than build 1GW they build 3GW and its okay because the miners swoop in to buy that extra 2GW. When the miners leave, the Icelanders have 3GW capacity, but maybe only 1-2GW demand, allowing them to do shit like sell power at less than a 1 cent per KWh and heat their roads so there's never ice on the streets.

[Anonymous No.50073748]

>>50072362
It's almost like bitcoin is an antiquated dinosaur that should be retired, or something

[Anonymous No.50073799]

>>50073697
finally someone with brains in this thread. it's a shame most people don't understand the game theory behind BTC.

[Anonymous No.50073813]

>>50073475
>what you think is wrong
You literally don't even know how mining difficulty works

[Anonymous No.50073831]

>>50073580
A lot of people don't understand that energy is work rather than some supernatural aura or something. I mean, "proof of work" says it all: it is proof of the necessary energy to solve a block.

[Anonymous No.50073853]

>>50073576
You don't need to do math when the answer is immediately obvious retard. You even forgot that you need equipment to mine too, not just solar panels lmao

[Anonymous No.50073861]

First major mining company becomes unprofitable at 13k, rest in the 8k range. You're welcome

[Anonymous No.50073871]

>>50073697
One guy made the point that at some low price there will be a lot of unused mining equipment around, maybe enough for an attack.
That's a possible issue, despite in practice usually other tokens absorbing the extra miners. The centralization of miner hardware production in general is also a problem.
>>50073813
Why do you think this? Why can't you be specific about what your problems with my posts are? What's wrong with your brain?

[Anonymous No.50073875]

>>50072362
If the supply is lower then the demand gets lower.
The miners hold their bitcoins through the bear and sell in the bull

[Anonymous No.50073903]

>>50073875
Miners literally leveraged themselves to buy new hardware and have been selling the past 3 months to pay off their debt. Check their financials before LARPing.

[Anonymous No.50073908]

>>50073176
It's the jannies who mined bitcoin from the beginning...

[Anonymous No.50074014]

>>50072743

[Anonymous No.50074081]

>>50073853
>hurr durr you even forgot
That's what "etc" means, dumbass. You are either a grade A troll or a drooling retard. Every post of yours is typical bullshit contrarian opinions with zero substance. Fuck off if you can't string together even basic logic and reason to back your claims.

[Anonymous No.50074138]

>>50073903
it's pretty hilarious and ridiculous. imagine being so retarded that if price of coin you mine goes back to a price it was at less than 2 years ago, you go bankrupt and/or have to turn off significant portion of mining rigs

the degree of leverage that is still yet to be wiped out in crypto is immense. the entire run up from the covid lows was an enormous low leverage long off the back of massive QE

[Anonymous No.50074227]

>>50072362
on pure it's going to moon thinking.

[Anonymous No.50074607]

>>50073203
Okay, I was going to do some math on this but it turns out this is a common question so there's already resources online giving estimates.

Let's start here (scroll to the end for quick summary examples)
>https://climatebiz.com/solar-powered-bitcoin-mining/

To summarize: solar powered BTC mining is viable but requires a substantial start-up investment. On the order of a few hundred thousand dollars minimum. Expect 5 year ROI for smaller scale operations.
Also IIRC, 5 years is pushing the boundary on lifespan of a typical BTC industrial miner, so expect to be buying all new BTC mining equipment after that. Luckily, the majority of the startup cost for a solar-powered BTC mining operation is the solar panels and infrastructure itself. There would also be periodic maintenance and other upkeep costs not considered here.
There's also a scalability factor to some extent (larger operations have a shorter ROI).
I'm guessing that if you cost optimized for areas with the best year-round sunlight, you could make this a worthwhile investment. However, you could also just simply sell the excess electricity back to the power grid instead, so YMMV.

[Anonymous No.50074771]

>>50073252
>>50073853
Also shoutout to this dumb mother fucker.
Like I said, his math is fucked. Per his example, if you sink millions into setting up a solar-powered BTC mining operation, expect ~$30k/month revenue with a 5 year ROI give or take.

[Anonymous No.50075172]

>>50074607
Nice work. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.50075405]

>>50074771
>monthly income as a constant over 5 years
see >>50072661 lmao

>>50073871
>Why do you think this?
because you keep talking about electricity costs as if that's relevant to OPs question lmao

[Anonymous No.50075774]

>>50075405
>because you keep talking about electricity costs as if that's relevant to OPs question lmao
Why can't you begin to explain yourself even a bit?
Seriously how can you be this fucked in the head? Why do retards like you keep posting anywhere? Absolutely no hint of self awareness?

OP posted a graph and a twitter post referencing price dropping below some index of electricity costs implying it's not profitable to mine anymore.
It's still profitable to many because the pay less for electricity.
Can you tell me what your fucking problem is now? Are you capable of any form of communication you subhuman nigger?

[Anonymous No.50075906]

>>50073199
>t. angry boomer who likes to pretend to be an expert on 4chins

[Anonymous No.50075959]

>>50075774
>explain yourself even a bit?
see >>50073199

[Anonymous No.50075978]

>>50073059
>How does the network function after the year 2038 when the timestamps overflow?
BTC uses unsigned timestamps unlike the signed 32-bit unix timestamp you're probably thinking of, max year would be 2106 not 2038 (hopefully it takes less than 80 years to upgrade to 64-bit timestamps)

[Anonymous No.50076116]

>>50075959
Say something retard. I don't understand why you would refuse to. Why post over and over just to absolutely refuse to say anything?
You don't seem to grasp the thread on any level and then accuse me of not understanding the bitcoin reward structure. If you were capable of thinking you would present your thoughts to resolve these discrepancies. The reason you don't is you know deep down you're a useless retard and everything you're saying is braindead.

[Anonymous No.50076161]

>>50072399
Satoshi said something socialist and idealistic about it on the forum that’s why I sold it all.

[Anonymous No.50076175]

>>50076116
>I don't understand why you would refuse to
you have spent over an hour refusing to spend 5 minutes reading articles spoonfed to you

[Anonymous No.50076276]

>>50076175
There's nothing there. I already know all this shit. You're the one claiming I don't and that my posts are inconsistent but absolutely refuse to elaborate.
What the fuck are you talking about retard? Why can't you just say it? What's wrong with your brain?
Use your words. Communicate your thoughts if you have any. Why haven't you? There's no possible justification. The only reasonable conclusion is you have serious brain damage.
Absolutely subhuman niggers like you dominate all discussions on every subject. You should not keep getting away with it. You're cancer that needs to be eradicated.

[Anonymous No.50076425]

>>50076276
>I already know all this shit
obviously not since >>50075405

[Anonymous No.50076534]

>>50076425
>obviously not since
Use your words.
OP specifically asked about electricity costs. If you sincerely want to understand what's happening here you will present your thoughts to resolve the discrepancy. You know, like sentient humans do.

[Anonymous No.50076634]

>>50076534
OP hasn't even mentioned anything about electricity you dumbfuck
what the fuck is even your point anymore? that nefarious if BTC crashes to $10k per this retard you're seemingly quoting the entire thread >>50072522
nefarious actors will quickly buy all excess mining equipment and then collude in perfect synchrony to 51% attack the network? do you realize how retarded you are?
>le centralization of mining hardware
that means certain parties can ALREADY attack the network regardless of price/costs/ whatever the fuck else
the guy you're arguing with is right, you are a fucking retard

[Anonymous No.50076774]

>>50076634
>OP hasn't even mentioned anything about electricity you dumbfuck
He posted a picture about electricity cost and asked a question about its implications.
>what the fuck is even your point anymore?
That you and your friend are demonstrably incompetent retards that should never post on any subject again.
>nefarious actors will quickly buy all excess mining equipment and then collude in perfect synchrony to 51% attack the network?
I mentioned that once as a possible issues. I never mentioned it again and not one of his replies to me have mentioned it.

[Anonymous No.50076799]

>>50076276
retard

[Anonymous No.50076824]

>>50076774
>I'm a midwit semi-literate faggot that sublty demands to be spoonfed on basic Bitcoin concepts
>why yes, I have absolutely zero arguments to present, I just want you to spoonfeed me
suck a bag of dicks

[Anonymous No.50076861]

>>50076534
>OP specifically asked about electricity costs.
And if you had any idea what you were talking about you would have linked him this >>50073199

[Anonymous No.50076895]

>>50076824
>sublty demands to be spoonfed on basic Bitcoin concepts
You refuse to even say what concepts I'm confused about?
I said miners with lower electricity costs aren't affected by the arbitrary line on the graph OP posted.
Some absolutely mindless nigger then started sperging about how I don't understand the basics of Bitcoin without elaborating at all. You then jump into the thread assuming he's talking about something completely different.
At least I'm semi-literate, you're both demonstrably completely illiterate.

[Anonymous No.50076919]

>>50076861
Why? Why would I assume everyone is a retard?
What in those google results changes anything I said?
There's more information to consider, there always is but everything I said is still valid.

[Anonymous No.50076933]

>>50072362
Crypto in general can function even if mining dies because of transaction fees. The fees can keep nodes operating. What people don't realize is that processing transactions is really cheap. A regular computer can process billions of bitcoin transactions per day for a few cents of electricity. What's expensive is mining. Mining is just a lottery. Most of the data they process is junk data. They are just hoping to be lucky and they get the one golden bitcoin(s) per block when mining so they get paid extra. The real transactions are hidden in the junk data so that's what causes bitcoin to be so inefficient. Bitcoin would instantly become efficient if 99.99% percent of the mining nodes were turned off.

[Anonymous No.50077065]

>>50076919
>Why?
to make him understand how crypto mining works. dummy.

[Anonymous No.50077083]

>>50072399
Bad engineering. Better to use that energy to power a steam turbine

[Anonymous No.50077110]

>>50072362
Difficulty will adjust itself and it will again profitable

[Anonymous No.50077133]

>>50072362
Profitability depends on how much you pay for electricity. If you have really low rates, or bought solar panels or something and the cost is already paid for, then it is still profitable to mine.

[Anonymous No.50077328]

>>50072362
there are botnets mining btc for free right now. and there are dozens if not hundreds of mining facilities the produce their own power from everything to microhydro to flare gas from oil wells. Also the price of production includes retail cost for asics and a ton of miners sold the top to pay for equipment I imagine.

[Anonymous No.50077409]

>>50073165
based Saylor poster

[Anonymous No.50078339]

>>50077065
That wasn't the question and the basics of difficulty adjustments are easily searchable like you pointed out.
You're sperging because instead of parroting the top google results I actually answered the immediate question and pointed out how irrelevant that graph is to anything. In your NPC mind that means I don't know the obvious parrot shit because why wouldn't I mindlessly parrot it otherwise. It's a fascinating insight into the brain of a mindless golem.

[Anonymous No.50078568]

>>50078339
>That wasn't the question
because OP has no idea how crypto works so his question isn't even valid
>easily searchable like you pointed out.
thanks for finally admitting that you were wrong.

[Anonymous No.50078731]

>>50078568
>you were wrong.
About what? Why can't you use words? Why did I have to infer every single thought you're acknowledging now like the predictable golem you are?
I'm absolutely empirically right about you being a useless subhuman retard like is demonstrated by the fact that you could have communicated your actual thoughts with two simple words if you weren't a retard.
Difficulty adjustment doesn't answer the actual question asked. You are wrong but what's way worse is the fact that you're cancer, a presence that drags everything down with you into incompetence and retardation. You infect everything you touch with a rot.

[Anonymous No.50078869]

>>50078731
Why are you wasting your time arguing with idiots?

[Anonymous No.50079143]

>>50078731
>About what?
see >>50075405

[Anonymous No.50079457]

>>50072362
>16057 production cost
this has to be a skewed average
there are US-based farms with ~10k production cost, today

[Anonymous No.50080674]

>>50079143
I already saw it and went deep into how retarded it is. You're unable to engage on any level.
>>50078869
It's interesting. Retards like him need conditioning, like training a dog. He already knows everything he said in this thread is retarded but he doesn't associate any emotional meaning to that. Like an untrained dog he doesn't understand why things don't work out for him. He needs to feel bad about his retarded behavior to ever become better.

[Anonymous No.50082093]

All of you in this thread are a bunch of mouthbreathing turbofaggots.
number goes up. simple as