Tax Evasion General // TEG

[Anonymous No.5005246]

Hey Bizbros,

Here's my plan to avoid paying taxes on my crypto gainz:

I will spend all of my crypto on purchasing mining equipment. Then I'll start an LLC dedicated to mining cryptos. At that point, all profits will come from mining, and will be taxed accordingly like a real business.

Only potential drawback is my crypto is stored on Coinbase right now, so the government may potentially know I had a significant amount of money stored away at one point ($200k+), but if it's spent and gone, then who's to say what really happened? I could just say I lost it on the market or something. Thoughts?

t. amerifag

[Anonymous No.5005313]

The U.S is a strange place

You guys sound like paranoid lunatics, the IRS can't be THAT good

[Anonymous No.5005346]

Do you think it's smart to purchase mining equipment right now? It seems like ROI timeframes are getting longer and longer and profit margins getting slimmer.

Also, if you register as a business, how are you going to explain where all of the expensive equipment came from?

[Anonymous No.5005396]

>>5005246
Love the name. Hail /TEG/

[Anonymous No.5005398]

>>5005246
my plan:
>cash out
>run

[Anonymous No.5005411]

>>5005346
>Also, if you register as a business, how are you going to explain where all of the expensive equipment came from?
I doubt anyone would ask.

[Anonymous No.5005456]

>>5005313
If you google "IRS understaffed" you qill find several news stories claiming that only 1% of returns filed get audited

I think we all get nervous anyway, I do as well.

[Anonymous No.5005472]

>>5005246
What is really to stop you from saying you lost it all?

Although then you can't really use to buy anything but candy bars and chips for the rest of ever.

[Anonymous No.5005474]

>>5005246
say you lost it in the bitfinex goxing.

[Anonymous No.5005532]

>>5005313
Thing is though, they didn't get Al Capone for anything except tax evasion

[Anonymous No.5005543]

>>5005411
Auditor here... They will most certianly ask. Actually it might even be the first thing they check.

[Anonymous No.5005563]

How does the IRS handle crypto that has been washed through Monero?

[Anonymous No.5005638]

>>5005456
That's because if they know you owe, they send you a letter saying pay up or else. They don't have to audit you if Coinbase shows you selling $200k worth of crypto and you haven't filed any gains

[Anonymous No.5005780]

>>5005246

Mining on a large scale is pretty difficult. Lot's of heat, and the machines are unreliable so you need some good software to automate reboots and stuff which all the good stuff is custom because people don't want others to get the upper hand.

[Anonymous No.5005857]

>>5005638
OP here

But that's the thing, I'm technically not selling for cash on Coinbase... I'm using Bitcoin to purchase mining equipment. All they'll know is I sent a bunch of BTC to some random address...

The mining equipment will be hosted in a foreign country. Once I've purchased th emining equipment, all I have to do is pay for electricity, and a modest rental fee. The venture is theoretically profitable because of a. the current price in BTC, and b. cheap electricity. Plus I'm buying the equipment at a slight discount. But these are just details.

So basically, I will be getting daily deposits of BTC into my wallet from this mining venture. I was thinking of considering this the be "profit" in terms of taxes for my "mining business". Does the IRS really care where or how I'm getting my BTC from the mining venture? Surely it's all a but too abstract for them at this point?

[Anonymous No.5005926]

>>5005857
But really, the profitability is of secondary importance to the main point of this thread. Really, I just want to know if this plan would succeed as a money laundering scheme.

[Anonymous No.5006202]

>>5005398
Run first you stupid burger, cash out in another country.

[Anonymous No.5006360]

>>5005246
>keeping his coins on fucking normiebase
>thinking about TE

LMAO

you are a stupid fuck

[Anonymous No.5006481]

>>5006360
Not really adding much to the discussion.

Facts are, most people start with crypto, or purchase crypto, through Coinbase, so developing tax evasion strategies for those users would help a lot of people keep their money.

I think my idea has a chance of working because Coinbase, or the IRS, don't really know where the hell my crypto is if its not on their database or held in the Coinbase wallet. For all they know I could have lost it.

[Anonymous No.5006656]

I keep seeing more and more faggots on this board complaining about this.
I have an idea on how to launder crypto money. There's 3 problems with it:
- my business partner doesn't want to develop this cause he's afraid of jail
- it's in a legally gray area in the same way that Obsidian messenger is a gray area "we are legit guys that are building a legit app, but we can't stop pedos and terrorists from using our app"; the problem is that while their solution is decentralized, my idea won't be so I can become a target for whoever investigates this shit.
- the more people use it, the more it will be known as "money laundering central" because people can't keep their mouth shut.

Anyway, if there's more interest for this I'll make a thread one of these days explaining it in more detail to gauge biz's opinion on this.

[Anonymous No.5006726]

>>5005246
crypto will create two industries
crypto financial detectives
and
crypto money laundering accountants

people like accountants are definitely going to need to learn how to program now

[Anonymous No.5006983]

just pay your god damn taxes like a good goy

[Anonymous No.5007041]

>>5005246
Will coinbase fees be write offs on my taxes?

[Anonymous No.5007116]

Ill gladly pay my taxes so I don't have to look over my shoulder for the government all of the time. Yea, it's capital gains and it sucks.

You know what sucks more than taxes? Prison.

[Anonymous No.5007154]

>>5005313
They are if they target you. It's just the matter of actually getting targeted by them so really most of us don't have anything worry about, but a few will be picked and strung up for the slaughter.

[Anonymous No.5007244]

>>5005246
Please consult a professional.
You plan is fucking retarded
You are fucking retarded.
Now that we have that out of the way. Where the fuck are you going to say you got the contributed capital for your new LLC? If your this retarded your probably to retarded to start a large scale mining operation. You'd likely see better return by leveraging you capital in the real estate market with a traditional 20% down mortgage. If you have less than 100k just slowly cash out using local Bitcoins. 100k to 4M just pay your fucking taxes and leverage that capital. 4m+ consult a professional.

[Anonymous No.5007280]

>>5007116
The only persons that needs to be in prison is the president of Bittrex and Poloniex.

[Anonymous No.5007366]

>>5007116

This. It's bullshit that Americans are taxed out the asshole on crypto but it's better than getting fucked by "Nasty Nate" in prison.

[Anonymous No.5007558]

Reminder that the purpose of crypto is to challenge the big government. You don't owe them slave dollars and you sure as hell shouldn't sell crypto to pay their bills. Its slavery. It is a moral issue. Don't do it.

[Anonymous No.5007587]

>>5007244
Bro, the thing is, you are approaching it like it's a traditional business, it's not.

I'm literally generating money out of thin air with this plan. The government has literally no idea how to gauge whether my overheads are realistic or not. This isn't a fucking store or laundromat.

Do really think the IRS knows how much a mining rig costs? Do they know how much electricity costs are? My rigs aren't even going to be in the US. My overheads are absolutely minimal. You are an idiot for making assumptions about my business model.

>IRS here, hey anon where did you get the BTC from

>my mining contract which I nought for next to nothing

>Uhh, sounds good, move along citizen..

[Anonymous No.5007821]

>>5005313

They are pretty incompetent, but when they come for you, they come hard to make an example.

[Anonymous No.5007845]

>>5005543

As long as you don't write off the equipment, it is not their business and they can't do anything about it.

[Anonymous No.5007950]

>>5005246

CPA here. You're a retard if you think that will work.

>purchasing mining equipment
>start an LLC
>dur hurr no trail with this

Fucking brainlet

[Anonymous No.5007997]

>>5006202
This poster has achieved objective intelligence.

[Anonymous No.5008040]

>>5007950
What if you just "happened to find" a pile of cash or gold burred in your backyard? Would that be taxable?

[Anonymous No.5008110]

>>5007587
Home much in gains you got? I'm sitting here compy at 1 mill and I plan to keep holding. But if I cash out I will pay my taxes in Canada instead of off shoring so I can comtinue to receive the CCPC small business deductions from anything I purchase with my gains. I'm looking to get 5 mill in gains then buy a 20 million hotel with 20% down at 10% cap and live off the 2 mill I make each year which will only be taxed at ~ 13% thanks to the small business deductions.

[Anonymous No.5008142]

>>5008040
yes, if you want to spend it in any credible amount.

[Anonymous No.5008215]

>>5005246
>>5007116
>>5007366
>>5008110
If you are Americans then why the fuck do you not just move to Puerto Rico?

[Anonymous No.5008221]

>>5005780
are GPUs so unreliable they actually go off while mining?

[Anonymous No.5008225]

>>5005246
>Start LLC in the Cayman Islands
>Start LLC in USA or Europe
>Cayman LLS sells licence to US/Europe LLC
>Whole profit goes to Cayman LLC
>0 % tax on profits

Works well enough for other businesses.

[Anonymous No.5008273]

>>5008225
Depends if you want to use that money for anything else. In Canada small business get taxed at a lower rate if they are owned by Canadian corporations.

[Anonymous No.5008304]

>>5005246
dog at my homework won't fly dude. that's like withdrawing 200k from a bank account and when they ask where did it go? oh, i accidentally flushed it all away, it's gone i swear.

[Anonymous No.5008798]

>>5005246
Uuuh, be careful, anon.
https://www.fool.com/taxes/2017/10/29/dont-be-a-bitcoin-tax-evader.aspx

[Anonymous No.5008895]

Honest question. If the IRS comes at you for tax evasion, can you just be like "oh shit guys honest misunderstanding, heres the owed taxes"?

[Anonymous No.5008914]

>>5005246
buy Monero. problem solved.

[Anonymous No.5009015]

I was hit by a drunk driver last year and got $45k tax free out of it (It came from the attorney general). I used that to invest since june and have tripled it since then. Would I need to declare my holdings??

[Anonymous No.5009614]

>>5005472
a tragic boating accident with my laptop

[Anonymous No.5009717]

>>5008215
Have you been to Puerto Rico? No matter how bad the rest of the United States is, at least it isn't PR.

[Anonymous No.5009760]

keep in mind that exchanges are only required to report investments >$20,000 so most of us are in the clear

[Anonymous No.5009848]

>>5007950

No, you are the retard. There is no paper trial. I'm sending my crypto to some random Russian bitcoin wallet, what the fuck is the IRS going to know about it? Think outside of the box, people.

[Anonymous No.5009875]

>>5005246

Good plan, OP.

You can also use crypto cards like TenX to pay for stuff from crypto and then act all dumb. "Hurr, but I wasn't converting it, I thought McDonalds accepts Bitcoin now, what u mean I have to pay tax for my burgers??"

In regards to keeping fiat on exchanges:
>"Hurr, but that was not real fiat, did you not read tether story? It is fake dollar, they can take it anytime, they are all scams anyway and can steal anytime, I can't even withdraw my money, it is all a bubble hurr durr, exchanges get hacked and take ur moni, it not real"

Then buy BTC back on the exchange, transfer that BTC to your hardware wallet (you can claim you lost it at this point), then use that BTC to buy mining equipment (transfer from another wallet) and have that be an investment in your business.

Basically, there are several ways to do this.

[Anonymous No.5009893]

>>5008110
Anon, impressive gains, you've already made it, congratulations. I'm sitting on ~$300k profit from crypto. Was thinking of putting ~$100k into the mining operation.

[Anonymous No.5009945]

>>5008895
no, by that point you will owe penalties or possibly much worse depending on how much.

they may actually let people self report for past years on gains that they didn't report without much punishment, but that hasn't been announced yet though.

[Anonymous No.5010026]

>>5005857
Uhh, if you have "profit" from "mining venture" you still have to pay taxes at this point, so wtf is the reason for this convoluted scheme? Unless your original coins are tainted? In which case just launder them via monero.

Really, and what happens when Bitcoin price crashes and your mining farm can't compete and goes out business? What will you do with all those graphics cards?

[Anonymous No.5010060]

>>5007116
See, kids, this is how a high inhibition beta cuck looks like.

Can't take the heat, milky boy?

[Anonymous No.5010177]

>>5008110
WTF? Your plan is to "make 5 million"? So you think Bitcoin will magically keep going up because reasons?

I'm in the same shoes, but I'm not that naive. I know this is a fucking bubble and I have cashed out enough not to feel like a loser when it bursts.

If you plan on mining saving your ass just know that you will get outcompeted and once the difficulty drops or rises you might just be out of the game. It is extremely competitive.

[Anonymous No.5010270]

>>5010026
I've already bought dollars on Cuckbase multiple times, short term capital gains tax is ~35%. I'd like to avoid taking that hit on my ~$300k profit.

Surely small business taxes are smaller? Actual legitimate question... I assumed it would be less than 35%, but you are right about the scheme being pointless if this is not the case.

I already calculated to see if the scheme would be profitable, trust me, I've taken multiple scenarios into consideration.

Now, for the sake of clarity. All the BTC for this venture is going to a Russian BTC wallet. All of the miners will be in Russia. Only costs to me as owner of the miners is for rental space and electricity (very affordable prices). All profit is going to my BTC wallet. Only thing that needs to be taken care of is taxes on these profits. Since they are not capital gains, I'm not sure how to treat them, but I thought maybe treating them as business profits may be a good start. Perhaps there are better methodologies that can be adopted.

[Anonymous No.5010306]

>>5010177
Nigger, BTC could easily make 10x gains at this point, it's not outside the realm of possibility, and we aren't even considering gainz made from holding other cryptos.

[Anonymous No.5010329]

>>5010270
Why don't you just do what Roger Ver did and denounce US citizenship and go to St Kitts, buy property there and then cash out with 0% taxes? There are plenty offshore jurisdictions with 0% or 5% low tax rates, why are you thinking of a way too convoluted method for no reason at all, just taking additional risk?

Just buy the BTC back with those smelly dollars and say you mad a mistake or something and thought those were tethers, then sell BTC via localbitcoins and get real cash on your hands or just sell BTC to your friends or something.

There are a lot of ways to turn it into cash without converting it via bank accounts.

[Anonymous No.5010341]

>>5010306
>Nigger, BTC could easily make 10x gains at this point, it's not outside the realm of possibility, and we aren't even considering gainz made from holding other cryptos.


It could also crash to 95%. Did you not see the post about ultra normie Insta models buying BTC packages? What more confirmation do you need that this is euphoria bubble reaching top?

[Anonymous No.5010394]

capital gains are taxed at ordinary rates until you've been there 10 years.

[Anonymous No.5010472]

>>5010341
>Falling for biz fud

Bro, people have been posting shit like that for months, and will likely continue to in order to convince you to cuck yuorself and sell your BTC.

>>5010329

Bro, I've seriously considered it, but giving up my citizenship is out of the question at this point. Also, selling for cash peer2peer or through a BTC ATM/TENX card is impractical with my level of profits. I'm not going to go to sleep with $300,000 cash under my bed, lol. I want that money in my bank account...

[Anonymous No.5010507]

>>5005313

[Anonymous No.5010620]

>>5005246
No you have it all wrong.
1.Cash out
2.FUCKING RUN
3.Buy land in siberia
4.Build mining rigs in siberia, with no need to pay cooling bills because -20 degrees F.
5.Become so rich that you can buy off the IRS
6.Move back to the U.S.

[Anonymous No.5010640]

>>5010472
>Also, selling for cash peer2peer or through a BTC ATM/TENX card is impractical with my level of profits. I'm not going to go to sleep with $300,000 cash under my bed, lol. I want that money in my bank account...

Right, you want to use "safe bank", but don't want to pay the price for using it aka taxes? Here is something else you might want to consider - buy index funds (stock ETFs) with crypto. How? This is how:
Transfer crypto to Mona.co, Tenx and similar cards. Then find a stock broker who accepts card deposits (they exist), then transfer the sums to this stock broker, you will end up paying about 5% in credit card fees and spread if the card company has any (TenX does not, not sure about others). Ok, but now you can buy stocks with). Buy a shit load of index funds and don't look back.

The time, effort and risk spent on your mining operation to "save on taxes" which might not even be that low for income from Butt mining.

>Bro, people have been posting shit like that for months, and will likely continue to in order to convince you to cuck yuorself and sell your BTC.

Yes, and it is becoming more and more apparent. And it is a good sell signal. Remember that old saying of shoeshine boy giving stock tips? Well, taxi and uber drives now are giving crypto tips. Even dumb sluts are buying crypto now. Normies are retarded and will dumb at first Wall Street orchestrated crash. If you don't know when to take your profits and when to click that "SELL" button you just end up a loser with a garage full of beanie babies. In this case - a Trezor full of cryptobutts.

[Anonymous No.5010708]

>>5006656
We don't need shit from you and your faggot friend. Its easy, get a credit card like Moneco or Netteller. Pay everything in life with crypto. Easy

[Anonymous No.5010842]

>>5005246
Good luck getting your assed rammed for money laundering you fucking idiot. Pay your taxes or fucking move somewhere you don't have to.

[Anonymous No.5010864]

>>5010708
Mona.co cards are not yet available.

First time hearing of Netteller. Do they provide crypto cards?

[Anonymous No.5010879]

>>5010842
Yeah, what he does sounds like going from "tax evasion" crime to "money laundering" crime for no reason, basically increasing your risk 10x.

[Anonymous No.5010953]

>>5005472
I was going to do this, probably a dumb method but was just going to throw my holds into my offline wallet and sell XMR on LocalMonero.

You don't have to pay taxes if you make under 30k, and that shouldn't be hard to fake if you keep enough off exchanges most of the time. But I'm definitely moving to a decentralized exchange ASAP.

[Anonymous No.5010988]

TAXATION IS THEFT

[Anonymous No.5010991]

>>5010329
>Why don't you just do what Roger Ver did and denounce US citizenship and go to St Kitts, buy property there and then cash out with 0% taxes?
Giving up your US citizenship requires you to prove that you've paid all of your taxes. (including taxes on money earned outside of the US)

[Anonymous No.5011026]

>>5010879
I don't even know how I'm supposed to pay my taxes legitimately, considering bittrex, whihc is one of the many exchanges i've used, hasn't even kept a complete record of all of my transactions (checked one of the .csv files today)...

But really, fuck paying taxes. Taxation is literally theft, those faggots in the government did nothing to produce my wealth, or the wealth of the entire cryptosphere. They can eat a dick for all I care.

[Anonymous No.5011234]

>>5007558
I agree it is a moral issue, it's fucking robbery. Look, I have no issue paying some taxes even though it's robbery. But I have never cashed out anything to myself, only made hunderds of taxable trades. So you're telling me I'm gonna cash out for the first time, to pay the government for risks I took, and good trades I made, that I haven't actualized on at all?

FUK THAT

pisses me off so much
and i gotta pay tax on the money i cash out to pay tax with, fuuuuuu

[Anonymous No.5011272]

>>5010953
Really?
I've heard so many numbers put forth for the level under which you don't have to pay taxes, from 11k to 80k

[Anonymous No.5011405]

>>5005246
Any place accept crypto for gold?

[Anonymous No.5011491]

Honestly, why can't I start a sole prop, say my crypto gains are buisness sole prop income, buy mining equipment with the gains, then depreciate it all in the same tax year using the exclusion rule?

I read the IRS publication and this is 100% legal since you can intertwine sole prop income and expense.

Any thoughts?

[Anonymous No.5011511]

>>5009717
No but I'm not American so can't get residence permit there
Otherwise I would move tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.5011625]

>>5006360
>normiebase

I'm guilty of this - and new - what are good recommendations? lets say I want to buy iota, ripple or dogecoin - how can I go about doing that?

[Anonymous No.5011667]

>>5007116
And thats when they start investigating. By paying them you wave a huge crypto flag above you

[Anonymous No.5011714]

>>5011491

Can someone refute this?

I work at a large bank in accounting and none of my coworkers who have CPAs can find fault with this

[Anonymous No.5011749]

>>5011405
jmbullion but theres a paper trail, mailing address etc..

[Anonymous No.5011874]

>>5005313
Did you that often rape has statues of limitations that vary by state? Murder has no statue of limitations. Neither does tax evasion.

[Anonymous No.5011883]

>>5010177
I've been holding since 2011.
>This is a bubble
No shit. It will pop like the rest and Bitcoin will come back stronger.

>>5009893
Thank you, but 1 mill isn't making it. Making it is making enough a year that you can live like a king and have enough surplus left to reinvest each year. I'm only 21 years old so I can tolerate much more risk than someone older. I'm blessed in that I've also started making money outside of Bitcoin. Last year my dad and I purchased a commercial building and this year flipped it for a net profit of 250K.

[Anonymous No.5011958]

>>5010991
Holy hell that's cheeky

[Anonymous No.5012022]

>>5005246
All deposits over 9999$ are reported to feds. So if you are playing with this kind of money with no paper trail, you will indeed get caught at some point.

Now I don't think getting caught is actually a big deal. Radio ads all the time for people who haven't paid back taxes. These ads characterize the IRS as just constantly bothering you to pay.

They don't come to your door and arrest you like these stupid millennials think on biz

[Anonymous No.5012063]

>>5011491
If you made trades and profited in FMV you owe capital gains no matter what you do with the money.

[Anonymous No.5012110]

>>5012063

Not true if the sole prop earned the income. The mining equipment would then be fully depreciated in the current year, iffseting the income

[Anonymous No.5012122]

>>5012022
>Now I don't think getting caught is actually a big deal. Radio ads all the time for people who haven't paid back taxes. These ads characterize the IRS as just constantly bothering you to pay.
>They don't come to your door and arrest you like these stupid millennials think on biz

I wouldn't recommend listening to this advice - the gov wants its cut and it can only get bad (more money lost in fines) to worse (loose even more money and jailtime)

[Anonymous No.5012146]

>>5011272
Look it up yourself, it's on the IRS website.

Or take a random internet strangers advice: If you make under 30k a year (crypto gains included), you don't have to pay any taxes. I had meetings set up for LocalMonero until I learned this. I was going full tinfoil.

[Anonymous No.5012152]

>>5012122
t. Millennial

The problem is widespread enough that it's a regular ad on multiple am fm radio stations.

[Anonymous No.5012195]

>>5012110
Well it ain't income tho, it's capital gains from trading. What do you do when they eventually get their hands on Coinbase, Polo, and bittrex trade records and see unreported trades? You're going to have to fraud to say you earned the money in some other way.

[Anonymous No.5012213]

>>5012152
ok, whatever you say - have fun

[Anonymous No.5012259]

>>5012195

The sole prop's buisness is trading crypto and mining. Since it's a sole member sole prop, I should be able to claim this as buisness income.

This is definitely gray. I would need to clearly define the sole props business as this.

[Anonymous No.5012333]

>>5009760

what does that mean? like if you've made more than $20,000 in gains? if you invested $20,000 at first? i put in $400 like two years ago and my coins are worth like $24k. would i get reported?

[Anonymous No.5012480]

>>5012146
>>5010953

That's not true at all. Short term gains are taxed at the same rate as income tax. Long term gains are taxed at 0% for the 10 and 15% tax bracket, which is where I think you're getting this from but if you traded your coins even once before 1 year they're not eligible any more for long term capital gains.

[Anonymous No.5012495]

>>5012259
You'd have to go back in time and establish your sole prop before you made any trades.

[Anonymous No.5012543]

>>5012495

Sole props don't need paperworked filed to become established on the federal level.

Depends on the state for state income tax.

[Anonymous No.5012596]

>>5012543
Apparently it's extremely difficult to be classified as a Trader in the eyes of the IRS instead of an investor.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB122039907716592937

[Anonymous No.5012683]

>>5012596

Hmm point taken.

I guess you could say holding the crypto properties is required for your buisness to hedge risk.

It's not really the same as securities trading as crypto is treated as poperty by the IRS, not securities.

Gray indeed, but I'm still not finding anything egregiously illegal with this plan. The CPAs at work and our Deloitte auditors agree, although they do warn I would be a prime audit target.

[Anonymous No.5012694]

>>5012683
>The IRS is piling up victories in tax court against individual traders who inappropriately use Section 475 MTM business ordinary loss treatment for deducting large trading losses.

Ruh roh

https://www.forbes.com/sites/anthonynitti/2013/08/29/the-tax-aspects-of-day-trading-do-your-purchases-and-sales-of-stock-make-you-a-trader-or-investor/#247c840e6ffa

[Anonymous No.5012707]

>>5012694
oops i linked the wrong article

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2014/02/28/knowing-the-rules-keeps-traders-out-of-tax-trouble/#354ca2447d3d

[Anonymous No.5012755]

LOL just pay the fucking taxes you retards why wouldn't you...

[Anonymous No.5012775]

NEET here

I have a huge mix of mining (both rented and self-built rigs) and trading. Massive amount of in/out for a relatively small gain (but large in terms of % compared to stocks I guess). Probably 10k in crypto buys, 12k in crypto sales, 5k in mining equipment, 6k in dedicated servers, and 20k in crypto holdings.

Do I just itemize everything and hold on to my butt or what?

[Anonymous No.5012799]

>>5012707

Yeah again, I'm not trading securities. I'm holding shitcoins to hedge my mining buisness in the event the mining operation coins go sour.

The intent is different.

[Anonymous No.5012802]

>>5011625
I'd like to buy ripple, made an account on gatehub yesterday. waiting for my bank info to get approved. what a cringey process.

[Anonymous No.5012811]

>>5012775
I should note that I have records of my purchases/expenses/sales but getting records of mining each individual crypto is going to be nearly impossible. It's just fucking absurd the amount of transactions I've done on the various blockchains. So not sure what to do about that desu

[Anonymous No.5012824]

i dont get why people are so worried about the irs and taxes

just wait for them to do an audit, might take years , if ever

then all you need to do is pay the tax bill, plus interest/penalties

you dont go to jail over afirst time offense anyway

[Anonymous No.5012852]

>>5012824
>i dont get why people are so worried about the irs and taxes
>then all you need to do is pay the tax bill, plus interest/penalties
>plus interest/penalties

[Anonymous No.5012857]

better caul sall xd

[Anonymous No.5012874]

>>5012755

Because the taxes are like 30%+. That shit will decimate my gains

[Anonymous No.5012876]

>>5011625
GDAx and polonieux

there are very easy vids on youtube that explain how to transfer between each if you want ripple for instance

[Anonymous No.5012881]

>$200k worth of btc stored in normiebase
>thinks he will make it

[Anonymous No.5012883]

>>5005563
lol they dont. The trail ends at Monero, that's the point of monero.

[Anonymous No.5012891]

>>5012874
jesus christ... that's horrible.

[Anonymous No.5012951]

>>5005563
>>5012883

can someone explain monero to a brainlet such as myself? people keep saying "use monero" but how does that help? like how am I able to actually buy shit with the money I made using monero

[Anonymous No.5012971]

>>5012874
>30%+
b-but hillary said taxes are too low!

[Anonymous No.5012979]

WHY THE FUCK DO THEY JUST HAVE TO TAX BITCOIN

[Anonymous No.5012996]

>>5010341
>muh bubble
Seriously kill yourself. We had snpp dogg, 50cent and others twitting about BTC and accepting BTC payments in 2014 and nobody gave a fuck.

And guess what, the normies that talk about bitcoin, 99.99% of them own 0 BTC.

And guess what, fiat is the bubble.

Bitcoin is going to be worth millions and you are going to kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.5013013]

>>5005563
Ok and then how do you go from monero to USD? And I mean USD, like bank account or cash.

[Anonymous No.5013055]

>>5010640
>muh normies

They DON'T matter.

>muh beannie babies analogy

Seriously end your life.

[Anonymous No.5013056]

>>5012951
In theory you change it back to bitcoin and then send bitcoin for things which is effectively anonymous as it has been washed through XMR

[Anonymous No.5013079]

>>5012824

lmao

[Anonymous No.5013199]

>>5012152
>dur i dun heard it on da radio these dumb kids on the fourthchan don't know nuthin
t. Retarded Normie Boomer

those ads are for poor people who owe a few thousand dollars in back taxes but are broke and need to settle. If you have real assets have fun getting them seized.

[Anonymous No.5013220]

This sounds like a pretty good plan. I think it would be legit. Mining expenses would be deductible

[Anonymous No.5013237]

>>5012951
It's simple, Most cryptos are super easy to trade, it's all on the ledger, literally a public list of transactions. Monero is not traceable, the buyer, seller and amount sent from every transaction is kept secret. So you trade your bitcoin for monero then transfer the monero to a decentralized exchange not tied to your identity, trade monero for whatever and there is no trail, absolutely no way to connect the money to you.

[Anonymous No.5013259]

>>5012480
Sauce? I'll try digging up my source too.

[Anonymous No.5013311]

>>5007116
>I'll pay them mafia tribute so they don't kidnap me later

[Anonymous No.5013335]

>>5013259

Source? That's common tax knowledge.

Look up the short term capital gains publication. Literally just google it.

[Anonymous No.5013397]

>>5013311
>i'll use publicly funded services and infrastructure without contributing anything
Ever try leaving mom's basement?

[Anonymous No.5013406]

>>5013397
>publicly funded at gunpoint

[Anonymous No.5013408]

I was just thinking. Hypothetically, I buy $1000 worth of btc from Coinbase. I take that $1000 worth of bitcoin and then move it to an exchange. I trade coins and now that $1000 is worth $10,000. I transfer that $10,000 to coinbase and cash out. Report that I bought and sold $1000 in my return and not bought for $1000 and sold for $10,000 and get taxed on a $9,000 gain. How does the IRS know what wallet is who's and who's it isn't? Thing is that they don't. All of the gain could've been given to me in theory by people over the internet. Am I wrong?

[Anonymous No.5013480]

>>5013408
they're looking at the fiat deposits etc dummy
if you want to hide it you need to find another way to cash out obviously

[Anonymous No.5013584]

>>5013480
But there really isn't a way for them to prove that you did what I described unless they were to get the records from the exchange

[Anonymous No.5013614]

>>5013584
>But there really isn't a way for them to prove that you did what I described unless they were to get the records from the exchange
yes but what you described is fucking retarded
if your goal is to hide your gains just buy monero and cash out using alternate means

[Anonymous No.5013660]

>>5012146

where are you getting this information? it simply isn't true. any trade is considered a taxable event.

[Anonymous No.5013677]

Are there any exchanges that let you cash out to a debit card, that they issue? It seems like you could get around taxes by having the money put on a debit card that's not tied to a bank account, provided the exchange doesn't report the cash out.

[Anonymous No.5013710]

>>5013055
fucking brainlet with the muh shoeshine boy
back in fucking 1820 when stockbrokers were getting their shoes shined by sambo on the corner, information about stocks, ect was only known and exchanged by a few circles of people. Then lo' and fucking behold the internet was invented and information travels instantaneously across the planet. shoeshine boy analogy doesn't apply here. Not saying the market won't crash sooner or later, but if you think you're the one who can call the top...got sum bad newz for you boyo

[Anonymous No.5013726]

>>5013614
I know Monero isn't traceable, but honestly how is it different if the IRS sees the $10,000 anyways?

[Anonymous No.5013729]

>>5013584

they're going to get the records and go after people bringing in a lot of money. it's only a matter of time. crypto is a wet dream for the irs and regulators once they figure out how to manage things. i'm guessing it will be through a massive amnesty plan involving fines and backtaxes and interest, like what they did to the swiss banks.

[Anonymous No.5013803]

>>5010991
Then go to china or russia where the US has no extradition treaty

[Anonymous No.5013810]

>>5012333

20k period for the year. Buy, sell, send, or receive. If you go above that they have to report it to the IRS. If not, they don't and there's no way the IRS will no about it unless you report it or get audited which is extremely unlikely.

[Anonymous No.5013828]

>>5013397
The mere fact that I am butthurt over taxes means that I have contributed taxes, numbnuts. I'm not saying I haven't benefited, but it's a third party getting a cut from all transactions of any kind conducted on it's turf for no reason other than it being on it's turf.

The state is no different than a mob boss busting kneecaps and burning stores over unpaid tribute.

[Anonymous No.5013851]

If you don't think the IRS is going hard on crypto this year, you're going to be surprised.

> coinbase

The IRS has 97% of all your user data currently. not a joke, it's been reported.

You will be made an example.

Don't fuck with the IRS, don't be an idiot.

[Anonymous No.5013897]

>>5013237
When tax man asks what happened to your monero, how do you report it?

[Anonymous No.5013910]

Honestly, it sounds scarier to report gains to the IRS instead of not reporting. Like it seems like you'd be painting a target on your back and it will lead to and audit.

[Anonymous No.5013957]

>>5005246
Nice plan bro


Let me know what American jail cells look like

[Anonymous No.5013982]

>>5013677
Because of money laundering laws, that's illegal in most countries.
I've never seen a crypto debit card that didn't have a low limit, like $300.

Believe me, I'd be running that kind of business if it was possible to do legally. Taking a 2% conversion fee would be more than worth the PCI-DSS compliance headache.


>>5013803
That literally doesn't matter. (you only have to do this if you are giving up citizenship) Millions of americans living abroad just don't report any of their earnings to the IRS.

You can just not pay taxes on gains realized outside the US. It's not rocket surgery.

[Anonymous No.5014019]

>>5013851
do you have to report anything if you just hold and never cash out for fiat?

[Anonymous No.5014108]

>>5014019
coinbase said they're going provide some sheet you print off with all your trades.

[Anonymous No.5014149]

>>5014019
and yes.
Even if you hold, you pay taxes (same with gold).

[Anonymous No.5014270]

>>5012881
Is kraken considered normie?

[Anonymous No.5014273]

>>5005246
when i started making huge amounts of money trading i paid 130k for a citizenship in a small country.
moved there and have been making the big bucks ever since.
i pay 2% taxes where im at now.

[Anonymous No.5014363]

>>5014149
What? that is absolutely retarded. I don't pay taxes on my shitty stock I am holding

[Anonymous No.5014403]

>>5014149
Wait, you have to pay taxes on commodities?

[Anonymous No.5014453]

>>5014149
wtf, taxes on gold? Isn't that only if you sell.

Let's say your investment increase 100k in value, and you pay 30k in taxes, then what happens if your investment drops to 0? Do they pay you back the 30k, I don't think that is quite how it works.

pretty sure you only pay taxes on income and capital gains. So if you sell for a profit then you would owe tax

[Anonymous No.5014472]

Just like other types of income, the cash you earn from selling bitcoin for a profit isn’t all yours: Uncle Sam wants a cut and considers your bitcoin to be taxable, according to the Internal Revenue Service.

That’s fairly simple — but bitcoins that are held as an asset will be taxed as a capital asset, just like stocks

[Anonymous No.5014486]

>>5013335
>>5013335
Not finding anything. I remember explicitly reading from irs.gov that if you make udner 30k annually pre tax you don't get taxed on capital gains.

[Anonymous No.5014515]

Here's a fucked issue that (to my knowledge) no taxman can answer.

WTF happens if you use btc to buy stocks? I used a site a while ago (1broker) to do just that.

[Anonymous No.5014542]

1. You don't pay taxes unless you cash out (fiat)

Send it to me in my country with no tax on crypto, I cash it out, I transfer it back to you in other ways, -5% service fee of course.

[Anonymous No.5014569]

No matter what, i'm not a CPA.

Don't take tax advice from fucking 4chan.

I pay a tax attorney to figure out all this shit for me.

[Anonymous No.5014636]

a lot of this info is new.

please read:
https://cryptodaily.co.uk/2017/11/warning-irs-tax-millions-bitcoin-trades/

[Anonymous No.5014685]

"Bitcoin exchanges, traders and related businesses should report yearly with details of US residents with virtual currency accounts with balances of more than $50,000 or US expats with similar accounts but with a $200,000 balance."

If you're like me and bought 20 btc (just for fun) way back in the day - i highly recommend getting someone to help you with this.

[Anonymous No.5014763]

>>5014515
You'd be taxed on the appreciation of btc and report your stocks at that cost basis for future gain/losses

[Anonymous No.5014781]

>>5013828
Yeah sure, if that same mob boss was also funding national defense, roads and other public infrastructure, police, social programs... literally everything that we depend on to have a safe and orderly society comes from taxes.

You sound like a child who has never left mommy's basement when you show such a lack of perspective. You benefit from most of the things that tax revenue pays for. Why do you think you're exempt from paying for it?

[Anonymous No.5014824]

>>5014781
I hope this is bait

> literally everything that we depend on to have a safe and orderly society comes from taxes.

yeah, so food, medical service, housing and clothing _all_ must be funded through taxes

fuck outta here brainlet

go get cucked

[Anonymous No.5014850]

>>5014781
>you benefit from the mob protecting this neighborhood, therefore you should pay

[Anonymous No.5014893]

>>5010988
You can yell that all the way to jail friend but it won't change the fact you'll be looking through metal bars

[Anonymous No.5014907]

>>5005246
Read the SEDM pulication The Trade or Business Scam

[Anonymous No.5014961]

>>5006481
No he means if you keep your coins on CB, there will be absolutely no way of evading the IRS.

[Anonymous No.5014971]

>>5014824
kek well if you take it to the most absurd extreme you can make it sound bad

Medical service is subsidized by the government even in the US, you idiot (and is fully covered by your taxes in every other first world country)

Your government, paid for by taxes, also makes it affordable and convenient to purchase those goods you mentioned. They also enforce the law so that no one can take away what you have.

Go ahead and tell the police that you don't feel their services are worth paying for, then I'll circulate that information to the local niggers, how does that sound?

[Anonymous No.5015064]

Anyone here pay taxes on altcoin trades?

[Anonymous No.5015080]

Most of you faggots earn less than 37 grand a year wagecucking anyway and the long term capital gains tax for that bracket is 0%.

The IRS also won't look too hard into trading between alts because the taxes from your lump profit would be the same as paying taxes on every single profit.

[Anonymous No.5015101]

>>5015064

yep, short term capital gains. i made enough trades that it's been a fucking nightmare to go through and put into a spreadsheet. fuck it though, i'm not going to jail.

[Anonymous No.5015152]

>>5015064
Nah, I transfer everything to Monero and then use localmonero. Only an idiot would pay taxes.

[Anonymous No.5015172]

>>5008798
Soooooo ethereum gains are ok?

[Anonymous No.5015195]

>>5005246
it's a barter exchange so you will owe capital gains tax. there's literally no difference between what you're saying, and cashing out and buying the miners with USD.

[Anonymous No.5015219]

>>5014850
This analogy is so dumb. You're far too stupid to outsmart the IRS, I suggest paying taxes for your own good.

[Anonymous No.5015265]

>>5014270
Normie isn't the word you're looking for. It's P____t.

[Anonymous No.5015286]

>>5005313
the IRS are basically on par with any other 3 letter agencys in the US. so yeah, it's not paranoia in the slightest.

[Anonymous No.5015295]

>>5005313
The IRS is the scariest branch of the judicial system, when they find someone avoiding taxes, they go hard

Remember, it is a felony to fail to report illegal income on your taxes, including money you got for sex, and/or money you made from selling illegal drugs\guns\ectera
So the years in jail and the fines you owe the fed both pile up fast

[Anonymous No.5015300]

>>5005313
You have no idea

You do NOT fuck with the IRS

[Anonymous No.5015339]

Can’t we just log in one day. Send it to a weird 3rd party, reset the password, contact Coinbase and say you can’t log into your account that you’ve been hacked, continue exchanging between multiple wallets, create a rabbit hold of wallet transfers.

Even if you eat $1000 in transfer fees, if you’ve got big money, that won’t be a problem.

Technically if you create a paper trail saying you fell victim to a phishing scam and someone key logged you, could this qualify as capital loss instead of gains ?

[Anonymous No.5015343]

>>5012755
Because taxation is theft and you're a massive faggot, gas yourself.

>Caught the shill

[Anonymous No.5015387]

>>5012881
Fuck off nigger, I started with 17k.

[Anonymous No.5015405]

>>5008798
They filed that to Coinbase for people who made big investments between the years 2010-2014.

They’re going after the whales that have so much money now, they can literally eat and shit bitcoins.

[Anonymous No.5015415]

>No tax on capital gains
That is one thing I like about this damn place.

[Anonymous No.5015423]

>>5015343
Yep the IRS is hiring shills to advocate for paying your taxes on 4chan LOL

There are a lot of massively deluded people on this board.

[Anonymous No.5015425]

>>5015339
coinbase doesn't even work without 2fa

[Anonymous No.5015468]

>>5013397
Well, theoretically, as taxpayers, we already paid taxes for that shit, so even by your own metrics, your argument fails. The government had literally nothing to do with creating crypto, or the trades we did. Gas yourself statist, neoliberal cuck

[Anonymous No.5015470]

>>5015425
Yes, but if someone were to use their gmail account as their email account, it’s not hard to download the google Authenticator app and bypass having a text being sent each time.

[Anonymous No.5015519]

>>5013677
Sure, I get the sarcasm, there's things like tenx, but you really buy sizable assets with a credit card can you?

[Anonymous No.5015559]

>>5013828
This guy gets it.

[Anonymous No.5015567]

>>5014971
>Medical service is subsidized by the government even in the US, you idiot (and is fully covered by your taxes in every other first world country)

my wife is a physician, her clinic accepts cash only, you are not smart

>Your government, paid for by taxes, also makes it affordable and convenient to purchase those goods you mentioned.

they make shit more expensive, all of these so called services that you think the government needs to provide could be provided in the free market

>They also enforce the law so that no one can take away what you have.

I get stolen from all the time from the government, not a good argument there

>Go ahead and tell the police that you don't feel their services are worth paying for, then I'll circulate that information to the local niggers, how does that sound?

it is proven in the courts that the police have no duty to defend me, they are reactive to situation. I live in a gated community and have home defense. Police are cheap compared to public education, both of which don't need to be purchased at the end of a gun barrel.

[Anonymous No.5015580]

>>5007587
holy fuck the stupidity here is astounding.

You are going to go to jail, and it blows my mind that you think you've even thought this through.

[Anonymous No.5015604]

>>5015219
>This analogy is so dumb. You're far too stupid to outsmart the IRS, I suggest paying taxes for your own good.

not an arguement. I probably pay more taxes than you, but go ahead and pay more if you think it is some moral obligation

[Anonymous No.5015610]

>>5015580

yep

he thinks the burden of proof is on the IRS

[Anonymous No.5015646]

>>5015468
>Well, theoretically, as taxpayers, we already paid taxes for that shit, so even by your own metrics, your argument fails.
That makes absolutely no sense my friend. Just because things were paid for in the past doesn't mean they don't incur continuous costs. Police officers need a salary. Roads need repair.

You can try to morally justify tax evasion all you want, but in the end you're just trying to be a freeloading kid. I also don't give a shit about your personal politics, this isn't political it's just you being a deluded manchild.

[Anonymous No.5015651]

>>5014781
That's what state taxes or meant to be for, dickface.

[Anonymous No.5015682]

>>5015195
I know that, but the difference is how will the IRS know that?

[Anonymous No.5015787]

>>5015646
a relationship predicated on theft has no moral authority

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_as_theft

go read

[Anonymous No.5015876]

>>5015567
It is rather typical of the gated community types to feel that they aren't obligated to support the very system that allows them to live their privileged lifestyle. Hilarious. Also, anecdotes aren't evidence you goof. Didn't they teach you that at private school?

[Anonymous No.5015894]

>>5015646
No, you misunderstand. I'm not against paying taxes. What I am against is the government taking my money in the form of capital gains tax, thereby profiting from something they had absolutely zero role in. The government did nothing to create cryptocurrency, and it did nothing to benefit the crpytosphere, and it had zero role in the painstaking trades I made. So they can fuck off. I will gladly pay state taxes to fund roads and schools and other vital infrastructure, but the Federal government can go fuck itself if it wants to bleed us dry with taxes to fund the military industrial complex and other corrupt extensions of the deep state.

Man child? Since you love sucking big government's dick so much, you must have a cuckhold fetish. How's this for name calling... fuck of redditor faggot, you have to go back.

[Anonymous No.5015970]

>>5012971
They are coming for that sweet 50%. Just imagine. You believe you finally made it at a million dollars+, but then you remember that half of it goes to Uncle Sam.
Have fun funding for the next war.

[Anonymous No.5016036]

>>5014971
Yeah except their service is shit and they line their pockets against the best interest of the population

[Anonymous No.5016040]

>>5005246
Tell them you were hacked, easy

[Anonymous No.5016044]

>>5015970
>That's not going to happen

[Anonymous No.5016070]

>>5016036
US police are a literal standing army on US soil with court approved zero-obligation to save the public from crime. Fuck the police.

[Anonymous No.5016078]

>>5015894
I liked you until it was apparent you had an inferiority complex :(

[Anonymous No.5016155]

>>5006202
This.

Cash out in Mauritius and live like a king

[Anonymous No.5016186]

I say this every time these threads come up but nobody listens. Use crypto to buy acid , sell it for cash and double your money in the process while making sweet gains

[Anonymous No.5016278]

>ITT

[Anonymous No.5016300]

>>5016186
lsd pepes make me so happy

[Anonymous No.5016470]

>Honestly, why can't I start a sole prop, say my crypto gains are buisness sole prop income, buy mining equipment with the gains, then depreciate it all in the same tax year using the exclusion rule? I read the IRS publication and this is 100% legal since you can intertwine sole prop income and expense. Any thoughts?

Could somebody explain this in more detail?

[Anonymous No.5016558]

>>5005246
they're probably still wondering how to moniter crypto, if you're gonna do that do it now before more regulations. worse case scenario you get fined 20k and have to go to a nice jail for a week

[Anonymous No.5016827]

>>5015876
you are basically arguing for slavery

you are telling me that I should should accept theft because I owe into the system

can you seriously not imagine a system that uses theft? were you bullied on the playground?

taxation is theft, you have no arguments against that, only ad hominems

[Anonymous No.5016907]

>>5016300
Saved

[Anonymous No.5016943]

>>5005563
okay well how do I cash out of monero? Do I do something like,
>convert to monero on exchange 1
>send monero to exchange 2
>sell monero into ltc/eth/btc on exchange 2
But this next part what should I do?
>cash out ltc/eth/btc in person
or
>cash out ltc/eth/btc to coinbase saying it was a gift

[Anonymous No.5017912]

>>5015894
If you think military is where all the money is going, you are wrong.

Social and Health benefits for fat niggers and spics is where the money goes

[Anonymous No.5018628]

>>5014781
My god you are a moronic cunt.

If your comment doesn't prove that normies have arrived, I don't know what will.

[Anonymous No.5018644]

>>5014971
>I don't understand how government and economics 101 work, the post.

[Anonymous No.5018978]

>>5010988
who else will pay to feed all the niggers and mexicans???

[Anonymous No.5018980]

>>5006983
Screw that, taxes on capital gains in burgerland are 25% that means I'd have to make 1,400,000.00 just to take home one million. $400,000 go to the tax man for no fucking reason at all. And that's just the federal tax, some states have additional taxes on top of that!

[Anonymous No.5019068]

>paying taxes to support niggers on welfare
>paying taxes for currency NOT supported by the gubmint

[Anonymous No.5019095]

>>5010953
>a decentralized exchange
such as?

[Anonymous No.5019312]

>start cook island trust
>start offshore LLC A under trust
>start offshore LLC B under LLC A
>start offshore bank account for LLC B
>move bags into monero/zcoin/zcash
>sell anoncoins for cash and deposit to LLC B bank account
>form new LLC under B for any large purchases
>even better use gains as collateral for loans