Is shorting immoral?

[Anonymous No.49838762]

I made a lot of money in the last few months by shorting crypto. If I tell it to anyone they act like I did something wrong or harmful. Of course they can't provide any valid criticism or they don't even know what shorting is.
I am just a wagie and I trading with my salary and it works really well. I bought a flat in january. Without trading it would take 30 years for me to hoard that amount of money to be able to buy a flat. Now I could buy another flat just from the profit of my last short. Is it a bad thing? Big bankers and wall street doing the same thing and they don't even have a real job.

[Anonymous No.49838786]

Shorting is the most pure and noble trade a man can make.

[Anonymous No.49838995]

Shorting is for making money in bear markets and longing is for making money in bull markets nothing more and nothing less, assigning moral values to it is pointless because the market is made by bank policy anyway so you might as well call the central bankers the real villains.

[Anonymous No.49839767]

>>49838762
Shorting isn't immoral. Activist shorts are unethical though. The majority of shorters lose everything when they become the blowoff top.

[Anonymous No.49840425]

>>49838762
shorting is immortal

[Anonymous No.49840456]

No, you help keeping markets efficient by betting against things that you consider mispriced to the upside. Thank you for your service.

[Anonymous No.49840467]

>>49838762
It’s Jewish, so yes.

[Anonymous No.49840470]

>>49839767

How is it unethical to inform retards that whatever they have invested in is a scam? It's much more immoral to not share that information and let everyone lose their money.

[Anonymous No.49840498]

>>49838762
Shorting is fine if you are hedging bets.

Shorting is downright evil, if you create massive ecosystem destroying shorts, and actively destabailize and run focused media and FUD campagins to fuel shorts and liquidations, destroying life savings in order to make your shorts work.

It's just a tool. Evil people do evil things with tools.

[Anonymous No.49840515]

>>49840498

complete nonsense. shorting helps keeping markets effecient by weeding out scams. the money gets lost because people invest in scams, not because short sellers reveal the scams.

[Anonymous No.49840559]

>>49838762
Part of your graphic you posted is cut off. Can you post the full version?

[Anonymous No.49840579]

>>49840515
>nonsense
That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Profiting off other people's suffering is fucked up.

Instead of trying to profit off the scams failures and fucking over innocent people, it would be responsible to promote financial education, regulation, and create alternate trustworthy systems which do work. Allow people to cash out and projects to fail organically, instead of taking out innocent people

[Anonymous No.49840629]

>>49838762
it depends what you're shorting and if your sizing is actually big enough to have an impact.

[Anonymous No.49840650]

>>49840579

Short sellers promote financial education by telling people why company A is a fraud. Financial education is ltierally what they do.
The way to pay for the work that is put into this education is to short things. They can't work for free and investigative journalism isn't profitable.

If you as a retail investor invest in a fraud it can end in two ways:
1) the company becomes worthless when the information reaches the market organically and you are left scratching your head
2) a short seller can inform you that the company is worthless. This gives you the option to get out before the collapse.

Palantir was a very popular stock amongst retail investors and on this board two years ago. Short sellers shorted this with a price target of 19 dollars when it was worth 30. Retail investors at this point had a chance to use the information to sell the top instead of riding it down to 7 dollars. This is a major service that short sellers provide and its a net positive for everyone.

[Anonymous No.49840651]

I don't have the brain capacity to understand how to do it, despite watching vids and reading guides.

[Anonymous No.49840686]

>>49840579
There are always two sides to a trade. There are no ethical arguments about muh suffering. Short sellers AND longs can get their shit rekt if they don't do proper due diligence.

[Anonymous No.49840718]

>>49838762
As immoral as buying something with no inherent value in the hopes to sell it to someone else for more than you paid.

[Anonymous No.49840743]

>>49840650
Nothing wrong with short sellling

I was referring to short selling in conjunction with market manipulation

[Anonymous No.49840768]

What is short selling?

Short selling firms hire a bunch of PhDs, do thousands of hours of research into securities and give it away for free. This is somehow a bad thing according to retards.
If anyone wants to do a large amount of research into any of my holdings and give it to me for free I'd be incredibly happy. I don't have time to do all that shit, I have a job.

[Anonymous No.49840777]

>>49840515
you dont get it, what the guy was saying is that it can create perverse incentives that end up causing more harm than good.

Imagine if people were allowed to take insurances on other people's property, and multiple times even. So i buy 10 fire insurances on your house and 10 life insurances on your life, then i will have an incentive to set your house on fire and kill you so i can make a lot of money.
Same way people who short stocks, futures and currencies have an incentive to do everything they can to damage companies and economies to make money

[Anonymous No.49840790]

>>49838762
You help regulate the money supply and prevent inflation
Imagine if people just got richer and richer simply by buying
It would be insane
Prices would go sky high
You're doing a good thing

[Anonymous No.49840795]

>>49838762
Not considering shorting as an innate part of the markets means you only expect them to only go up.

[Anonymous No.49840851]

>>49840795
that's retarded.
People can buy and sell, prices can go up and down, you dont need shorting.
Shorting is banned in several countries, sometimes momentarily sometimes permanently, sometimes only on some securities, people can still sell, prices still go up and down.

[Anonymous No.49840888]

Oil bro’s what’s going on?

[Anonymous No.49840927]

>>49840851
Shorting may be banned in the naked version generally speaking. Banning shorts is retarded.

[Anonymous No.49840933]

>>49840579
>Instead of trying to profit off the scams failures and fucking over innocent people, it would be responsible to promote financial education, regulation, and create alternate trustworthy systems which do work. Allow people to cash out and projects to fail organically, instead of taking out innocent people
you do it then, faggot

[Anonymous No.49841006]

>>49840579
>Instead of trying to profit off the scams failures and fucking over innocent people, it would be responsible to promote financial education, regulation, and create alternate trustworthy systems which do work. Allow people to cash out and projects to fail organically, instead of taking out innocent people
Fuck off naive retard. It’s everyone else fault but mine, right? Daddy government should dictate how I live and others live. You have no clue of what you are talking about, otherwise you would write this pathetic nonsense.
>>49840777
You insurance example doesn’t make sense. I get what you mean, but it’s always retarded examples that could not even realize themselves irl.

[Anonymous No.49841184]

>>49838762
Shorting is healthy as it is a tool to reign in over inflated markets and provide further incentive to not pump the market to face blistering values that cause people to dump everything at once. If shorting was banned, you'd get way more violent moves toward the bottom.

The bigger scam is futures which have absolutely DECIMATED oil markets. One of the healthiest things that might do some good for gas prices is to limit the speculation that goes on in derivatives on oil. It won't happen, but speculators definitely have a hand in how bad oil prices have gotten

[Anonymous No.49841284]

>>49838762
Let me guess you made 100 bucks off of a yolo short, then you took that as inspiration and larp about repeating it for another 100 days straight. Your going to find out really fast that that’s not how it works in real life.

[Anonymous No.49841285]

>>49841184
Wrong! Most of the time commodities’ price like the ones of oil and gas get lowered by speculation. The higher ones generally come from others factor, like politics or the cartels made up by the extracting countries.

[Anonymous No.49841348]

>>49841285
While you are correct, don't discount the role speculation can play. Speculation is like pouring gasoline on the fire of high prices. Does that mean that if we banned it, oil would drop back to 60/barrel? No fucking way, but I'd go as far to say that speculators are definitely one of the responsible parties that have pushed oil up to the peak of 120 and will have a hand in pushing it to 140 eom july and 160 August. Like all things in oil, it's obviously not one thing that is pushing it up (although the biggest is obviously Russia) but I don't think the fed can hike rates fast enough to push the speculators with excess money out of the market before peak oil this summer. Too many people are complacent in the "oh we're going into a recession so oil is gonna dump!" narrative when there is no sign at all of demand dropping even at these prices. Just my thought process but i have a huge oil long so i'm obviously biased. Just because I think speculation is driving price up doesn't mean I'm against it kek, altruism is for faggots

[Anonymous No.49841503]

>>49841348
Demand is only being limited by the fact that refineries are still at limited capacity and this is also why there is a disconnect between oil barrel and petrol prices.

[Anonymous No.49841530]

>>49841348
I don’t think you understand several things. Also, you are mixing up different concepts all together. Why should futures be responsible of oil’s high price? Are you mistaking cause and effect?

[Anonymous No.49841603]

>>49838762
If this is how shorting works then why the fuck does it lower the price?

[Anonymous No.49841655]

>>49841503
while refineries are getting hosed, the reality is that we also didn't build much of a surplus of crude in the last year prior to the summer driving and home building season and there's zero sign that crude can scale either. When OPEC says they can't meet the demand, you know you have a problem. otherwise you're on the money there. I think crude is due for a big upside so long as Biden is waging economic war against Russia by sacrificing European energy prices, kek

>>49841530
I think you're misunderstanding things. Futures contracts are HIGHLY speculative. I'm not claiming by any stretch that futures are responsible. But I am claiming that these have had a hand in accelerating the move to the upside simply because hedge funds that saw a risk of higher oil prices pushed contracts up higher. This has an overall effect on how much people will pay for oil at spot as well as how much miners can sell it at spot. (IE why bust my ass trying to sell all this oil at 100 when all signs are pointing that I'll sell it at 120). It's a cat and mouse game really.

Again -- this isn't the big reason as to why prices are going up. It's just something that goes hand in hand as speculation is something that can really pour gasoline on the fire of all the other factors that cause these kinds of things.

[Anonymous No.49841831]

>>49841655
>futures contracts are HIGHLY speculative.
More like they are inherently speculative. As many other financial instruments. But speculation is a process/toll. Nor good. Nor bad. I don’t see why you are treating it like the devil. Also, how does limiting speculation work? Do you know that when (crappy) regulations meet reality you end up with total annihilation. You cannot escape reality with a pen’s stroke. Besides, you are taking of how markets work. Markets are made up of people, people influence each others. Economics itself is a social science in the end.

[Anonymous No.49841888]

>>49841831
Oh I'm not friend, I think speculating is a healthy part of any market. I don't have "great answers here" though, it's a lot of calling out problems without solutions. It's an interesting tight rope to be walking. But the government is too busy trying to weasel their way out of this by implementing price controls and threatening companies to drill more oil rather than acknowledging they've worked themselves into a box.

Ultimately, people only hate capitalismwhen it isn't working for them because they're oblivious to take the hedges they need to when times are good, so poorfags then screech about how oil is too expensive. Nobody was complaining oil was too cheap when we went under 2 bucks a year or so ago kek

[Anonymous No.49841904]

>>49838762
no. shorting is a valuable function in markets. they create liquidity, and they add information to the system.
anyone who holds any argument against shorting, but cannot first concede these two irrefutable facts, has an axe to grind and can safely be ignored.
there are perfectly valid arguments, moral and/or ethical in nature, for even wildly wealthy people to simply choose not to participate in shorting (and beyond that also choose not to participate in futures/options, minimize use of margin/leverage).
you will eventually hear these arguments from sane, well-adjusted people. ignore those with an axe to grind.

[Anonymous No.49841942]

>>49839767
>Activist shorts are unethical though
not inherently. pretending you are an "activist" when you are just a promoter or anti-promoter, that is what's unethical.
the short position has no bearing on that. a long position works just as well for the same misrepresentation. the person is already a liar, their position may not even reflect their own advice.

[Anonymous No.49843709]

>>49838995
>Shorting is for making money in bear markets
you're right about that, i have a fren that I've been shorting Rfox and doge, and making good monie for a living, thou i tried it once and lost so much on Doge.

[Anonymous No.49843800]

>>49840579
It's not profiting off your suffering. It's profiting because I was right, and you're suffering because you were wrong.

[Anonymous No.49844326]

Shorting is immoral only in the event where you are borrowing assets from people who entrust you with holding them, then selling those assets in hopes of buying them back at a cheaper price.

[Anonymous No.49844614]

>>49838762
Lying to your customers and hiding the source of the interest you promised them while destroying their wealth by selling their assets against their will is immoral.

[Anonymous No.49844910]

>>49838762
It is, but it doesn’t matter. It crashes economies and businesses. If you don’t like it, sell if you own it and or buy something else that’s anti correlated or you think has value to invest in.
Greedy fucking fucks. It’s about building up things you think are valuable to society and being rewarded for it. Not gambling and economic warfare.
Simply not buying or selling and making you opinion known is enough for bad investments to fail.
Faggots

[Anonymous No.49845734]

>>49838762
How do you short crypto?

[Anonymous No.49845790]

>>49838762
Depends on wether you're an individual or an organization shorting against your own customers.

[Anonymous No.49845946]

>>49845734
>borrow product
>sell for $10
>price falls
>buy same product for $8
>return product to lender plus $1 interest
>you earned $1