THE FED HAS NO POWER

[Anonymous No.49812155]

What do you guys think about what these 2 Jews say about how the Fed has no real control or influence over financial markets?
Yes it flies in the face of accepted theory but if you start listening to their entire thesis about the Eurodollar futures market, it starts to fit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUIOP7NPySY
I feel like this is the most interesting financial channel on Youtube that almost no one is talking about

[Anonymous No.49812337]

>>49812155
Jeff was calling for CPI to roll over back when it was still 4%ish...
but I think he's still right about this current economic shitshow ending in a deflationary crunch precipitated collateral scarcity

[Anonymous No.49812385]

>>49812155

Jeff was calling for CPI to roll over back when it was still 4%ish...
but I think he's still right about this current economic shitshow ending in a deflationary crunch precipitated by collateral scarcity

[Anonymous No.49812439]

>>49812385
Yeah he's better at discussing macro and his theories on the underpinnings of the current monetary system rather than calling short-term moves.

[Anonymous No.49812492]

>>49812155
in 2020 I think these guys denied that the future will have high inflation
why would I listen to these faggots?

[Anonymous No.49812546]

They are absolutely right. Economists are the most retarded professionals on the planet.

[Anonymous No.49812563]

>>49812492

We haven't seen high inflation so they are still not wrong. If you listen to the podcast you will learn that inflation and high CPI numbers is not the same thing.

[Anonymous No.49812864]

>>49812563
> If you listen to the podcast you will learn that inflation and high CPI numbers is not the same thing.
Ok develop
> If you listen to the podcast
I can't stand inefficiently listening human ramblings for hours and hours
Do you have a book or something ?

[Anonymous No.49813036]

>>49812155
>MUH MILKSHAKE
There, it's all they ever say

[Anonymous No.49813061]

>>49812563
>inflation and high CPI numbers is not the same thing
Is this their cope now? Inflation means whatever I want it to mean to win an internet argument? Both prices and monetary supply are way up, so yes inflation is high no matter how you count it. But I guess MUH MILKSHAKE says otherwise so they have to cope

[Anonymous No.49813116]

>>49812864
Jeff’s been toying with the idea of a book for a while but for now the only way to get a grasp on his take is to listen to 200 hours of podcasts

If you’re interested he did a podcast with Robert Breedlove where he broke down his take on the Eurodollar system a little more coherently

[Anonymous No.49813490]

>>49812155
>>49812385
>>49812439
We are in deflationary times now and have been for over a decade.
Deflation/Inflation are forces and not defined by prices.

Historically it was the LITERAL volume of money (austrians), but for practical purposes it's an interplay of this and the acutal prices.
They've inflated the volume of money to such an incredible degree since 2008 to FIGHT DEFLATION.
They are now losing that fight.
Prices (already artificially low based on economic circumstances) will eventually actually go down because of the massive shit show coming.
tldr; it's been deflating for 15 years.
t. liquidator that sees real prices at the end of all this daily.

[Anonymous No.49813545]

>>49813490
Can you develop why we are in deflationary times ?

[Anonymous No.49813730]

>>49813545
Milkshakers believe that literally everything is deflationary because dollarinos always leave US since the rest of the world is in constant need of USD, especially during times like these. So they keep repeating how every crisis is deflationary for US because every crisis requires USD to leave US shores. Apparently they repeat it even now when inflation is impossible to ignore. At this point it's like a milkshaker cult

[Anonymous No.49813768]

>>49813545
Depression, lack of demand, and artificial markups.

Supply and Demand.
In the past you "made money" by actually creating a product, good, or something of tangible value.
So if you had a dollar, it represented actual production, meaning you could spend it safely and it was REAL DEMAND.

Now the attempt to "create demand" (printing money) without creating anything in reality.
This creates a vicious cycle of artificial demand vs ACTUAL demand.

With real demand being low, they fight it with fake demand, and eventually the fake demand spends up all the real resources (or too much of them) and leads to a realization that there is no real demand for the supply and price plummets.
Only more printing can stop this. On and on.

One way they get rich is they artificially jack prices up to accommodate this "new demand." You see $10-15 kitchen knobs and hinges on the retail side when they cost .30 to produce. This is of course to get rich, but the corporations KNOW THEY HAVE TO DO THIS because it's all part of siphoning the demand back up.
They are all in on it and know they can't lower prices to "compete" better or the cycle will collapse on them.

Basically the jig of fake demand comes up and people realize there is no demand left at all.
Then I buy truckloads of stuff for .02 on the dollar.
Production creates demand. Nothing else.

tldr; The fed acts as if money is demand. It's not.

[Anonymous No.49813795]

>>49813730
Read what I say here, then kys.
Do you really simplify things to the degree you do because you are smart? Or do you do it to keep from thinking?
Examine your response to what you assumed I'd say and then compare it to what I said.
Do you assume to much?
Do you always assume to much?

[Anonymous No.49813809]

>>49813730
>>49813795
Here I meant - >>49813768

[Anonymous No.49813851]

>>49813490

[Anonymous No.49813891]

>>49812563
>money supply up
>prices up
>"N-no! That isn't inflation, b-because it just isn't, ok?!?“

[Anonymous No.49813901]

>>49813036
following DXY, EMB lately?
starting to look a little milk-shaky...

[Anonymous No.49813919]

>>49813851
It's funny "arguing" with brainlets.
Inflation and deflation are RELATIVE terms. We would not even need them if it weren't for central banking.
They really only make sense in that regard.

I'm not sure the point of your chart at all because I have to have my mind swirl a million miles an hour to see how it's relevant to what I said.

Things have deflationary or inflationary FORCES. They are not inflationary or deflationary in and of themselves.

[Anonymous No.49813958]

>>49813795
Don't get your panties in a twist, this is a milkshaker thread. I don't know who the fuck you are, but I do know who the faggolios in OP post are and that's what they believe
>>49813901
Contrary to what the shakers think it's possible for everyone to inflate together

[Anonymous No.49813976]

>>49813901
not in the way you think, it's less of a milkshake and more like a balloon being rapidly inflated before it pops
>>49813919
cope

[Anonymous No.49813988]

>>49813919
>from my prospective, inflation IS deflationary!

[Anonymous No.49814003]

>>49812155
jews lie like they breath

[Anonymous No.49814028]

>>49813919
>duuuude up and down are relative terms
>what do you mean you're going up the ladder, gravity pulls you down every second, there's an upward FORCE and a downward FORCE
You're the blackest gorilla monkey if you think you're making an actual argument here. You're just repeating the completely meaningless milkshaker cope, I've hear it many times.
Stop arguing semantics. Prices are going up and so is the monetary supply. If this isn't inflation, come up with a new word for this phenomenon, go ahead

[Anonymous No.49814057]

>>49813988
>>49813976
>deflationary times
>deflation
Don't worry. I'll sell you all the stuff I'm currently buying at 20x in a couple years.
Wholesale prices are going lower every day.
I just bought 100,000 pieces of hardware for 25% of production cost a couple weeks ago.
I import about a million a year so I know baseline costs of stuff in my industry.
I buy truckloads under production cost every month.

The reason?
Despite all the money, THERE IS NO REAL DEMAND.
That's deflationary.
Just because you create a bazillion quadrillion monies does not change this REALITY.

[Anonymous No.49814075]

>>49813768
>This creates a vicious cycle of artificial demand vs ACTUAL demand.
How is that not inflationary ?
>With real demand being low, they fight it with fake demand
Demand "too low" in relation to what ?
Fake "demand" ? Only thing you can do is messing up with the supply of money.
>Production creates demand. Nothing else.
Not sure about that, demand precedes production. (Problem/Desire -> Solution (Product/Service))
>tldr; The fed acts as if money is demand. It's not.
A demand for money ? There isn't a demand for money there is a demand for product & services.
Or maybe I misunderstand you

No I don't get you. If you have some concise reading material, i am interested, by curiosity

[Anonymous No.49814113]

>>49814057
>i'm buying
>there's no demand

[Anonymous No.49814128]

>>49814028
But you aren't reading what I'm saying.
YOU are hung up on semantics. Try to get the actual picture I'm drawing.

REAL DEMAND is goods and production.
FAKE DEMAND is money printed.

You guys are entirely absorbed in measuring everything with dollars.
You have been assimilated.
You measure everything in dollars.
Start thinking in terms of real goods and it will get a little clearer to you.
You are totally absorbed in their world of fake money and measure everything in that regard with no thought to what is actually happening.

I move real goods by the truckloads and spend well over a million dollars on actual deliverables a year. RELATIVE prices are diving on everything but fuel and commodities.

[Anonymous No.49814134]

>>49813919
Kek, you think you are smart but you are really stupid

[Anonymous No.49814153]

>>49814113
Why argue in bad faith?
Do you really not understand that I meant there is too little demand and was using "no" for effect?

If there are 500 people and I say "there's no soda left!" and then you find a single can in the back of the fridge (me since I'm the only one with money it seems these days), does that change the reality of what I said?
499 people are going without soda.

[Anonymous No.49814184]

>>49813061
>Is this their cope now? Inflation means whatever I want it to mean to win an internet argument
basically
inflation originally meant the expansion of the monetary supply
then they changed the definition into "increase of prices" because they wanted to make the concept of monetary supply expansion less controversial
then they noticed how inflation was at unacceptable levels by their metrics, so they changed their metrics and cherrypicked prices to make inflation appear lower (by around 50%)

at this rate i fully expect the very word "inflation" to be removed from the vocabularies and be replaced with "price gouging" or "profiteering", fully blaming the suppliers/producers and utterly removing any responsibility from the government
the very idea that printing money causes prices to rise will be disregarded as a conspiracy theory by the "experts"

[Anonymous No.49814210]

>>49814075
>How is that not inflationary ?
My first post I said "deflationary times". Not "deflation."
Because you are measuring everything in dollars only and have no regard for real goods.
If you do that of course. But it won't give you an understanding of what is really going on.
Money is entirely obfuscating of reality the more the print.
That's literally the problem with printing.
>Only thing you can do is messing up with the supply of money.
No. That's fake demand.
You can PRODUCE, which creates actual demand.
If I produce more meat than I can eat, I've created demand for other goods.
That is how demand is created in a healthy economy. By PRODUCING more than you consume.
Printing money tricks people thinking there has been production.
They soon realize there hasn't been and prices on consumer goods collapse because no one has the PRODUCTION to afford them.

This is another issue that since you are serious I'll add in.
There will be tiers of goods.
Commodities and fuel and etc will likely always go "up" in price measured in dollars.
But relative to other goods?

Consumer goods and actual economic resources behave differently.

[Anonymous No.49814226]

>>49814134
I'm so stupid that I'm rich and married to a hot neurologist and have 20 employs. Damn, if only I were smart!
Stay poor.

[Anonymous No.49814274]

>>49814210
>production creates demand
what?

[Anonymous No.49814317]

>>49814274
Read a book on economics from before 1900.

Or just this here from my last post
>No. That's fake demand.
>You can PRODUCE, which creates actual demand.
If I produce more meat than I can eat, I've created demand for other goods.
>That is how demand is created in a healthy economy. By PRODUCING more than you consume.
>Printing money tricks people thinking there has been production.
>They soon realize there hasn't been and prices on consumer goods collapse because no one has the PRODUCTION to afford them.

[Anonymous No.49814322]

>>49813036
huh? no it isnt.

[Anonymous No.49814348]

>>49812155
can't watch
the guy on the right is totally unable to form coherent linked thoughts and keeps rambling about shadow money or some other inane shit. keeps jumping from thought to thought without any framework. that is always a clear sign that he does not understand what he is talking about

[Anonymous No.49814395]

>>49814274
To make a point that might help.
This is why the Fed prints money to "stimulate demand." It's a tacit admission there is not REAL demand.
The money they print makes plebs think there has been production as the function of money is ingrained over millenia.
So then they over consume, need to go to debt to continue, need to import cheap shit to accommodate, etc. on and on.

Demand without production is a hell of a drug.

[Anonymous No.49814408]

>>49813116
thanks jeff. ill watch this podcast

[Anonymous No.49814429]

>>49812155
They're not wrong, the economy is beholden to the arbitrary whims of subhuman goyim cucksumers. This is why we need automation and communism.

[Anonymous No.49814435]

>>49814210
>My first post I said "deflationary times"
Yes but I don't get your logic.
>Because you are measuring everything in dollars only and have no regard for real goods.
No I don't think do
>No. That's fake demand. You can PRODUCE, which creates actual demand.
Neither printing money nor producing necessarily "creates demand"
It's not because you produce something that it will be sold ...
>If I produce more meat than I can eat, I've created demand for other goods.
You created demand for other goods by producing meat ? Huh ?
No you just responded to the demand of eating meat by producing meat, that's it
>That is how demand is created in a healthy economy. By PRODUCING more than you consume.
I really don't understand your logic of production creating demand
The demand is already there in the first place and there is only so much of it, as everyone as a marginal utility for meat
>Printing money tricks people thinking there has been production.
When it inevitably ends up jacking up prices not really no, in the very short term maybe

I still don't get why you think that we are in "deflationary times" (prices will go down in the future)

[Anonymous No.49814463]

>>49814128
bank loans create money not a printer ?

[Anonymous No.49814499]

>>49814435
>Yes but I don't get your logic.
The fed printing is an open admission of this.
They are fighting deflation. That's what they do with housing constantly.
Not sure what's hard to get about that.
>It's not because you produce something that it will be sold
Look, I know people like to argue. But you make it farther TRYING to understand a point than trying to make sure you don't.
YOU HAVE TO PRODUCE FIRST.
No?

Or can we all stop working and the fed just prints money?
You know the answer.
We are online and pretending not to follow arguments is a bad strategy for both sides.
We don't have time to type out a Misesian treatise explaining every detail.
Use your imagination.
>created by producing huh?
Yes. How else would I have anything to trade for other goods?
You are so divorced from reality you aren't thinking at all.

If you never produce, how can you demand goods?

[Anonymous No.49814518]

>>49814317
>That is how demand is created in a healthy economy. By PRODUCING more than you consume.
Isn't the supply being created?

[Anonymous No.49814536]

>>49813958
>Contrary to what the shakers think it's possible for everyone to inflate together

If that's a forgone conclusion it's not priced into the current bond market.
The Fed tightening up till now has pushed Junk and EM sovereign yields to March 2020 apocalypses levels.
If inflation persists for another year or so (or more?) and the Fed kept hiking rates 50 -75 BP (or more?) every FOMC meeting; hyg and emb are going to get their guts ripped out; probably fall right through the 2008 floor, no?

[Anonymous No.49814541]

>>49814463
But did they produce a real good?
I am OF COURSE using generalities.
Am I supposed to type out long hand the exact definition and situation in which every term I use is appropriate?
They've created money without producing anything.
Is that simple enough for you to follow?
The mechanism is almost irrelevant.
ARTIFICIAL DEMAND.
or...
MONEY WITHOUT PRODUCTION.

[Anonymous No.49814559]

>>49814518
Supply creates demand.
This is basics dude.
I can tell you aren't well read.
Read Mises' Human Action to start.

How you demand something that doesn't exist?

[Anonymous No.49814565]

>>49814463
Before the financial crisis of 2008, a central bank would typically set policy by picking a target for the interest rate that banks charge each other for over-night loans of reserves—in the US, we would say that the Fed set a target for the federal funds rate.
Suppose the Fed target is 5 percent.
If the economy is on an upswing and the commercial banks spot numerous profitable lending opportunities, they begin advancing more loans to new borrowers. Other things equal, more and more banks would find that they need extra reserves in order to satisfy their reserve requirements (or simply to bolster vault cash to accommodate the increased activity from more customer deposits).
If the Fed didn’t take any action, then the banks’ increased clamoring for reserves would push up the market interest rate on overnight loans of those reserves, perhaps to 6 percent. In other words, in an environment where the banks perceive new lending opportunities, their activity would tend to push the actual federal funds rate above the Fed’s desired target federal funds rate.
In order to maintain its target, the Fed would have no choice but to engage in open market operations, in which it would buy new assets and create more reserves, thus pushing the actual fed funds rate back down to the desired 5 percent target.
This is the kind of mechanism that the authors of the Bank of England study (https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy)) have in mind, in which the central bank passively responds to the banks’ “needs” for reserves.
However, this is largely a matter of semantics. It is still the case that the central bank controls the total quantity of base money, and that the commercial banks can’t create new reserves. The textbook description is still correct: When the fed funds rate is 6 percent and the Fed wants to push it down to 5 percent, the Fed must buy assets and inject new reserves into the system.

[Anonymous No.49814601]

>>49814274
He's saying the only way demand comes into existence is if a society produces more than it consumes. I.e., if he produces more meat than he eats, this extra meat can be traded for things he wants. If he does not have this surplus, the value necessary for him to trade for other things has not been created. Think of it as a value model. If a whole society can create this extra value, it allows for demand to exist. Without excess production of value beyond one's basic needs, there is no created value left to be traded amongst each other. People just make do with less. In America's situation, we don't export goods. We export the dollar, and only able to do so because it is the global currency. As soon as the faith in our dollar is eclipsed by another currency, we're in deep shit because we have relied on this and allowed production of value elsewhere to decline. So, by printing dollars, there is excess cash in the system, as if extra value had been created. But it has not. Fed jew tricks.
Make sense?

[Anonymous No.49814630]

>>49814057
how do i get started doing this anon?
do i just buy lots of door hinges?
how do i shop for cheap below production cost construction hardware?

[Anonymous No.49814632]

>>49814559
>How you demand something that doesn't exist?
The desired object is simply responding to the underlying Need/Problem/Desire of someone.
You don't desire the new hyped car itself, you desire the projection of what will come with it.
You don't desire the new MuttBigMac++, you are just hungry while wanting novelty and a nice taste in your mouth.

[Anonymous No.49814647]

>>49814601
Bingo and thank you.
Our dollars are tricking the world into thinking we've produced something at the heart.
This is all carry over thinking from when it was true.
Money worked for all of known eternity in the way this anon describes.
It became REPRESENTATIVE OF PRODUCTION.
That is no longer the case and it makes understanding and following the economy impossible if you fail to comprehend it.

[Anonymous No.49814705]

>>49814630
I did a thread earlier this week after I made a nice sale.
Join liquidation mailing lists. Find as many as you can.
Get storage space. You need space to store things for a time while you flip them.

Even a two car garage can be used by a small timer to buy up estate sale lots and flip them.
You can't take advantage of a good deal if you can't take delivery.
STORAGE SPACE is the first thing you have to do.
While doing that find as many closeout and liquidation businesses as you can.
Contact local auctioneers.

Think about and find your niche.
It takes a good deal of knowledge to know what can be properly or effectively "flipped" (for lack of a better word).
I store stuff for ten years sometimes before making a 20x sale on it.
Not ideal, but I have massive storage space and a retail operation I feed it through at a trickle until I can sell the lot.

[Anonymous No.49814726]

>>49814632
You can't make any of that shit without mining or farming moron.
Jesus Christ.
Dream all you want, you must produce first.
It's no a chicken and egg thing.
NECESSARILY production comes first.

[Anonymous No.49814750]

>>49814559
Demand creates supply. Why would something be produced if there is no demand for it?

[Anonymous No.49814789]

>>49814499
>They are fighting deflation. That's what they do with housing constantly. Not sure what's hard to get about that.
So it's inflationary then ?
>YOU HAVE TO PRODUCE FIRST.
Yes of course
>Or can we all stop working and the fed just prints money?
Obviously no
>If you never produce, how can you demand goods?
Never said that you didn't need to produce anything at all.
>>49814726
>You can't make any of that shit without mining or farming moron.
Who said to the contrary ?
You farm wheat because you need to eat in the first place.
So the demand for not dying of hunger preceded the production of wheat in the first place.
So the statement "Production creates demand" is backwards

Can't we focus on the whole deflationary thing instead ? Still don't get your logic.
If you want to argue that they created bubbles/malinvestment with their central planning cool I'm with you 100%.

[Anonymous No.49814828]

>>49814750
They are intertwined of course, but you have to produce to demand.
Typically we aren't discussing survival mechanisms.

Yes, if you are hungry, it might make you produce food.
But no one ever "wanted" a TV into existence.
It was created after thousands of years of humans accruing resources and EXPENDABLE income because of their ever increasing productive capacity.
There is subsistence of animals and then there is the human economy with a plethora of goods.

Did the plebs demand Iphones?
Did they demand TVs?
Did they demand McD's?

These are all things that come from production over the amount needed to subsist.
There is some grey area to it I admit because I'm not a prick.
But production has to come before demand in a modern economy.

[Anonymous No.49814866]

>>49814705
>waiting 10 years to sell rusty kitchen knobs and door hinges
thanks for the response but that shit seems too hard.
t. zoomer
how the fuk do u even get the knowledge to identify could hardware to sell? did you work in construction as a tradesman?
how do i overcome the lack of information?

[Anonymous No.49814892]

>>49814789
>So it's inflationary then ?
What? Money printing?
If by "inflation" you mean prices then yes.
But this is why I talk about forces and not absolutes.
Things are constantly moving around in relative prices.
Just because there is a temporary state of affairs measured in dollars doesnt mean there isn't another state of affairs in the relation of one good to another.
Oil price is going up.
But in relation to other goods it's "deflating" as one gallon of gas now buys two cheeseburgers instead of one.

Insisting on looking at everything from a dollar perspective skews drastically what is actually happening with real goods and their relationships.

[Anonymous No.49814924]

>>49814789
>You farm wheat because you need to eat in the first place.
But after you have food and shelter then what?
We aren't animals.
There is base animal behavior and then the human modern economy.
Base animal behavior doesn't lead to the jet engine.
The jet engine wasn't produced so that the guys working on it could eat.

[Anonymous No.49814966]

>>49814866
>ten years
Typical zoomer only hears a small portion and it's the demoralizing portion.
That was "not ideal" as I said and it is surely atypical.
MY POINT was that you need space to store stuff.
And no, it doesn't rust. It's bagged and in a dry area.

You learn by doing. Another thing zoomers never do. They never act. They perpetually find reasons not to act.
Go on HiBid.com right now and search what's for sale within 50 miles of you.
FUCKING START.

[Anonymous No.49814997]

>>49814892
>If by "inflation" you mean prices then yes.
Then what is the thing that we disagree on
>Things are constantly moving around in relative prices.
>Just because there is a temporary state of affairs measured in dollars doesnt mean there isn't another state of affairs in the relation of one good to another.
There is a temporary state of affairs measured in anything against anything all the time
>>49814924
>But after you have food and shelter then what?
Then you aren't hungry so you can build up from here by satisfying your other problems/needs/desires of yourself and other people by producing good & services.
>The jet engine wasn't produced so that the guys working on it could eat.
The jet engine is produced because there is demand for people to travel. (So demand preceded production yet again)
People don't travel by plane because a jet engine was produced ... that's backwards

[Anonymous No.49815000]

>>49813730
this. all the US has to do is make one critical fuckup and 100% of those foreign-held treasuries are sold -- but to which buyers? if the fed is forced to buy, the currency itself is dead. but anything short of that is still a long, slow decline.
in the news it will read as a "new global order, yet again, promise we'll get it right this time" and summits will be held in europe. US influence will wane because it has purchased it solely with the projection of military might, nothing else. i am sure elites will try to make this process as orderly as it can so as not to disturb various tax bases around the world (i.e. no civil unrest).

[Anonymous No.49815012]

>>49812155
>we don't control anything, that's antisemitic

[Anonymous No.49815043]

>>49813768
>corporation A and corporation B both sell a doorknob that costs 30 cents to produce
>corporation A sells it for $14.99 (because magic assumption reasons)
>corporation B "CANNOT" sell it for $14.98 they "KNOW THEY HAVE TO DO THIS"
milkshakers failed micro without knowing how, but believed all of macro. it's a weird world.

[Anonymous No.49815101]

>>49814997
>The jet engine is produced because there is demand for people to travel.
Did people just trying to stay alive have demand to travel?
Or did that demand come to be because they had expendable resources from producing?

If you want to be an animal, then demand creates supply.
If you want to be a human, then production creates demand.

I'm not sure we disagree on much but nuance. I don't see "inflation" and "deflation" as things to be measured in dollars as doing so obfuscates entirely what is really happening.
Once you stop looking at it in dollars it becomes far more clear what is happening.
Then your understanding of what will happen in the economy clears up.

Why have I been sitting on $500,000 cash? Why do I continually get things cheaper and cheaper with that cash?
Because no one else has cash.
Why?
Why?
Hard to say, but I'm experiencing deflation because I have it.
Those that don't have it are experiencing inflation.
(generally, certain goods of course I pay more like everyone like gas)

[Anonymous No.49815141]

>>49815043
Do you not see the same goods selling at the same price at all corporations?
Or within 5%?

Why do retards PURPOSELY miss the point?
You don't see one selling it for half the other place EVER? Do you?
No. You don't.

[Anonymous No.49815147]

>>49814647
No problem. I've recognized you from threads before. Thanks for the intelligent discussions.
>>49814789
To his point, the reality is "basic core survival needs" is literally Africa. Stick and dirt hut. Dirt floor. No medical. No car. No TV. No phone. Shorter life span and lower quality of life? Probably. Also debatable. But in reality living in a first world country had blinded most to what "basic needs" really are to survive. It's much lower than you think. Those very, very basic needs can be real demand, like the wheat, yes. But let's be honest, demand in the sense that we are talking is far beyond that. It's wants. TV is a want. Call phone is a want. Car is a want. Thanks to social programs, you can have literally nothing and produce literally nothing and a soup kitchen will still feed you, and a shelter will still house you. Practically speaking, any first world economy demand is created by wants, not needs. Money/currency is just the intermediary, a method to store value created in a "stable", easily broken down system of barter. But as with any system of barter, you must have goods/services/value to trade. Individually, and as a society to allow demand to exist, there has to be excess production. Otherwise, jew tricks with money supply has done jew things to make it appear as if things are well. But they are not. I wish more people could grasp this concept when they vote and push for the govt to produce more social programs, or cheer free gibs. Enjoy the ride, we're all on here together. I'm likely going down with you.

[Anonymous No.49815172]

>>49815043
Retards deserve to be shamed.

[Anonymous No.49815194]

>>49813490
>Open with assertion that deflation/inflation aren't defined by prices
>Conclude that we are going to have lower prices in the future and therefore deflation
Look we're not all about to learn whatever private contrarian jargon you have bouncing around in your head to understand your point, clean up your thoughts here or fuck off.

[Anonymous No.49815239]

>>49815194
What economists of the past have you read?
I see this communication problem typically with people that have no historical perspective.
Have you even read Keynes?
Even he had a general understanding of this enough to attempt to deny it.

[Anonymous No.49815244]

>>49814966
Checked. I'll be doing this as well. I'm ironically jumping from my shitty lifeboat of a job right now. Good money but it's literally killing me and my family life. I've got a year of survivable contract work lined up but I've got to figure something out. Had 50k in eth to use as capital for something, but that's worthless now. Fuck it. Dick in my hand, I'm jumping. I'll work it out on the way down. Thanks for the threads, I'll be looking into it.

[Anonymous No.49815270]

>>49815244
Good luck.
YOU MAKE MONEY WHEN YOU BUY.
If you see a brand new xbox for $5, you KNOW you can't lose.
(extreme example that will never happen of course)
But you make money in this business on the buy. The more you know, the more you know where you can unload certain goods, or where the actual deals are.
Don't get into furniture if you don't know shit about furniture (not telling you, telling lurkers).
Cheers. Kids getting me too busy to do this much longer.

[Anonymous No.49815329]

>>49812155
Who the fuck are these clowns?

[Anonymous No.49815334]

>>49815270
Same to you and thanks for the info. I'll look for you in other threads.
> The more you know, the more you know where you can unload certain goods, or where the actual deals are.

That's the crux of what has to be sorted. Right there. The rest is just logistics

[Anonymous No.49815344]

>>49815101
>Or did that demand come to be because they had expendable resources from producing?
They have expendable resources from production because they responded to demand of other people by producing something. (So the demand was here before the production)
A stargate teleportation system isn't produced by anyone right now, but it is still in demand at least by me because I would like to be able to travel anywhere instantly (An upgrade from the jet engine, because I don't care about the product itself, I care about travel time). (Demand before production)
>Why do I continually get things cheaper and cheaper with that cash?
last time i checked everything is more and more expensive with all fiats long term

[Anonymous No.49815562]

>>49815344
I feel like you argue to argue.
> They have expendable resources from production because they responded to demand of other people by producing something.

And those people can only have that demand because they also produce something of value beyond what is consumed. The excess value is what ALLOWS demand. Think of it as a system instead of an individual.

> A stargate teleportation system isn't produced by anyone right now, but it is still in demand at least by me because I would like to be able to travel anywhere instantly (An upgrade from the jet engine, because I don't care about the product itself, I care about travel time). (Demand before production)

And where are you going to find the funds to create said demand for your standards
Stargate? If elon musk created one tomorrow, and sold it exclusively in ebonia to starving ebonians, what would the demand be?

>Why do I continually get things cheaper and cheaper with that cash?
last time i checked everything is more and more expensive with all fiats long term

He's not talking long term. He's talking right now. If you stopped trying to figure out how to refute, and instead used that energy to digest what is being said, you'd realize he's telling you something very important about what is going on in America right now. He's not the only one. I see it too. Don't assume it's schizo talk just because you can turn arguments with it. There's something to be learned from everyone

[Anonymous No.49815621]

>>49815344
>if I dream and dream and wish REALLY HARD
This is what your post says.

As the other anon pointed out. WANTS.
Wants are not DEMAND.
Think about the etymology here.
You can DEMAND things if you produce.
If you don't, you are just wanting and wishing.
There is a difference and it's larger than one might think.

[Anonymous No.49815648]

>>49815562
>If you stopped trying to figure out how to refute, and instead used that energy to digest what is being said
This is the crux of midwit mentality.
I spend almost all my time TRYING to understand the underlying point of even people I think are retards, because it's possible they have something to add to my perspective and just don't have the words.

Meanwhile, people like this guy go as far as they possibly can to make sure they don't understand your underlying point as if it's a win for them to not understand.
kek

[Anonymous No.49815760]

>>49812155
If the Fed has no power:
>Why has a Fed hiking cycle coincided with a recession almost always
>Why has the CPI not rolled over despite Jeff claiming that inflation isn't happening
>Why is "Don't fight the Fed" an aphorism

[Anonymous No.49815781]

>>49815648
Making the standard allowance of assumption that this anon is NOT doing this - I think we both know many people are more interested in feeling that they are correct, rather than actually being correct.

The simple task of admitting you may be wrong, even on occasion, has toppled many otherwise great men in history

[Anonymous No.49815788]

Also how does "No inflation!" explain massive rent inflation?

[Anonymous No.49815883]

>>49813919
there is a nugget of truth in your statement

inflation and unemployment truly dont matter because they are fudged numbers by definition. the friedman and chicago boys are supposedly the "right wing" of economics, they believe the economy to be controlled with monetary policy by focusing on inflation; the keynsians think you can do it fiscally

BOTH OF THESE CAMPS ARE FUCKING WRONG!!! go look to austrian economics for the win

[Anonymous No.49815904]

>>49815760
Recessions are typically determined by speculative market performance

Which is largely based upon companies playing with printed money and debt

Which is the exact mechanism the fed gets to play with.


It's all a big game of Monopoly

It's literally just a big fucking board game, and the barrier to entry is that no one explains the rules beforehand. You have to figure them out for yourself

[Anonymous No.49815920]

>>49812155

Reminder that these clowns said inflation had peaked in Q2 2021. Reminder that these clowns were long $TLT at $150.

"muh Eurodollar"

[Anonymous No.49815986]

>>49813061
>Is this their cope now? Inflation means whatever I want it to mean to win an internet argument?

Yes, basically all their 2020 & 2021 calls are horrendously wrong so they've latched on to the Austrian definition of inflation.

See also; David Rosenberg, Raoul Pal, Eric Basmajian, Mike Green, Steven van Metre etc etc. All the deflationists were complacent, they missed the lagged effect of government stimulus, missed the lagged effect of green policies on energy prices.

[Anonymous No.49816008]

>>49815562
>And those people can only have that demand because they also produce something of value beyond what is consumed.
I've said the same thing. And they identified the opportunity of producing it because the underlying demand was already here (Because the demand is not for the product itself but the problem/desire it solves).
>The excess value is what ALLOWS demand.
I agree.
That is different from stating that you are suddenly hungry because someone somewhere produced wheat ("Production creates demand")
>Stargate? If elon musk created one tomorrow, and sold it exclusively in ebonia to starving ebonians, what would the demand be?
Still very high (instant travel, difficult to argue), but there would be no production.
>He's not talking long term.
Short term it's undeniable yes but without a proper explanation/theory that doesn't say anything about what will probably happen in the mid/long term future and I was originally trying to ask about this before falling down in autistic semantic traps
>>49815621
Ah so now you make the distinction between "wants" and "demand" then finally after 4 posts I have a proper consistent response
But then the statement "production creates demand" isn't really interesting as it's tautological if you can't demand something if it's not produced by its(/your) own definition...
My point was that you have needs and desires no matter what is produced around you, and the person that will produce anything will always do it because he identified that (now called) "wants" for himself and others

[Anonymous No.49816023]

>>49815883
>go look to austrian economics for the win
I'm entirely based in Austrian economics and have read Mises, Rothbard, Hoppe, Ricardo, on and on.
But I have my own quibbles and nuances as any thinking person does.
HUMAN ACTION is the most epic work of anything in the past 200 years easily.
Just the name flies in the face of all faggots.
It's about HUMAN ACTION.
Not your buzzwords. Not your fake money.
HUMAN ACTION.
He's so based he called his economic treatise HUMAN ACTION.

Even Rothbard wasn't that based.

[Anonymous No.49816065]

>>49812155

>Everybody is a Jew!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.49816152]

>>49815920
>"muh Eurodollar"
So what even is the whole theory as not a single soul is able to explain it succintly and I can't find any book written by "snider".
How can this guy have that many people talk about him while never even writing in a concise way his thoughts

[Anonymous No.49816169]

>>49816065
who are you quoting, fucktard? these 2 are ethnically Jewish.

[Anonymous No.49816184]

>>49812155
I, too, treat comic book fan and Virgin mcCuck as my surrogate brain when it comes to finance.
Do they have their own altcoin to buy? I can still remortgage my house

[Anonymous No.49816204]

>>49814226
Holy, how insecure can one man be

[Anonymous No.49816222]

>>49813919
>I have to have my mind swirl a million miles an hour
it's rather obvious lol

[Anonymous No.49816225]

>>49812155
Try plebbit. They're more likely to fall for this keynsian nonsense. Also sage.

[Anonymous No.49816314]

>>49812155
Fed have the power to cause inflation and make it harder for poor to buy goods.

[Anonymous No.49816353]

>>49816023
Your theory depends on the central banks eventually moderating their printing. But if the Europeans stop printing money southern europe collapses, and if the fed stops printing pretty much all of the non-US collapses because of the deflationary forces you mentioned. Have you considered that they would rather keep printing and inflating forever than let things pop?

[Anonymous No.49816366]

>>49816152
Their point is that the money supply is effectively controlled by private banks who create new money by lending, rather than the government (treasury and the fed). The fed is reacting to change in the economy, capital markets, money supply, etc rather than being the driving force of the change.

I like that they shine a light on the fact that private banks create money and tell NPCs that QE isn't money printing, but they are too married to their contrariansim so they simply ignore the current inflation that was created by retarded politicians who shut down the economy and then turbocharged demand with fiscal stimulus. They have been stuck in "deflation in 2 more weeks" for more than a year now, it's unwatchable at this point.

[Anonymous No.49816386]

>>49816152
it's something not taught at university and only known by industry insiders who write for other insiders. There's no easy way to learn it, "the rise of carry" and "capital wars" are both good books but they assume you already know the basics

[Anonymous No.49816388]

>>49815239
>this communication problem
It's your communication problem you dumbfuck tryharding freshman. I'm *generously* assuming that you have some actual point to make, and telling you that the way you're making it is logically inconsistent.

[Anonymous No.49816411]

>>49816353
>Have you considered that they would rather keep printing and inflating forever than let things pop?
Isn't this economic history 101 ? It always end up like this, why would it be different this time

[Anonymous No.49816472]

>>49816411
exactly. This is also what Dalio used to say all the time. The bureaucracy chooses the easy option and pushes the problem forward every single time.

The only reason we've made it so long is because American scientists, engineers, and programmers and Chinese industrialists caused so much productivity gain for so long

[Anonymous No.49816507]

>>49813061
>cope
No his point is in how each type is solved. Inflation is solved by reducing money supply, CPI currently is solved by inducing a recession to create less demand for goods in a market of scarcity. If you call them the same thing then you miss the distinctness that allows you to fix the problem.

[Anonymous No.49816613]

>>49816366
>Their point is that the money supply is effectively controlled by private banks who create new money by lending, rather than the government (treasury and the fed).
Do you have something to say about this: >>49814565 ?

[Anonymous No.49817016]

Who are these two kike retards and what is milkshaking?

[Anonymous No.49817017]

>>49816507

We could have a recession and inflation only fall to 3%... compounded over a decade money is depreciating at a brisk pace.

Snider and his Fintwit buddies always claim consumers will "reject high prices" thus CPI resolves itself.

[Anonymous No.49817065]

>>49817017
I agree, I’m just saying there are distinguishing factors and they’re defined that way so that they can be approached as different problems.

[Anonymous No.49817114]

Tbh after they had Alfonso Peccatiello on I exclusively follow his macro instead. His explanations are more concise and he has a better record of outcomes of his analysis

[Anonymous No.49817175]

>>49816008
>then finally after 4 posts I have a proper consistent response
These are things that were obvious if you were making any attempt to understand what I was saying.
The other anon even elucidated the point for me in an entire paragraph explaining the difference and you still continued to not understand when talking to me.
It's tiresome and gains you nothing.
You don't even get upvoats here.

[Anonymous No.49817230]

>>49816353
>my theory
My theory doesn't depend on anything.
It's a logical progression of what necessarily has to happen given certain policies.
Economics explains effects and incentives.
It doesn't make judgements on what should or shouldn't happen.

For example, an Austrian wouldn't be "against" minimum wage. He would simply be capable of explaining what will happen as a consequence of the incentives one creates.
>>49816388
So you haven't even read the normie mainstream Keynes and it's my problem you don't understand. Got it.

[Anonymous No.49817297]

>>49814750
Someone gets a job and produces something. They then get paid and demand stuff you ape

[Anonymous No.49817463]

>>49816225
>whatever I don't understand is keynesian
lol

[Anonymous No.49817516]

>>49817114
Alfonso and Blockworks have been killing it with the content
top tier stuff recently

[Anonymous No.49817561]

>>49816613
The interest rate on interbank lending isn't influenced by the scarcity of what you call base money (reserves held on the banks' balance sheet and reserves held at the fed's balance sheet), because there is no scarcity there. The (perceived) drop in quality of debt offered as collateral for interbank lending is what blows up the lending rate.
The biggest thing QE does - and I think I disagree with the eurodollar university guys on this - is pushing riskfree yields down which pushes institutions furter out on the risk curve, meaning that banks and participants on capital markets are incentivized to lend to riskier borrowers to continue to earn the yield they did before and the yield they are in many cases contractually or business model-wise obliged to earn and deliver to their clients. The fed isn't printing money and handing it out, they are incentivizing/pressuring financial institutions to lend more than they would otherwise do based on market signals, effectively expanding the circulating money supply (or preventing it from contracting in an economic downturn) without actually handing out cash.

I do agree that things looked different before '08 and the start of QE in the US, but I think reserve requirements don't actually exist like most people assumed it would for a long while before that, but I'm not a law expert so I can't really reasearch that outright.

[Anonymous No.49817596]

>>49817114
>>49817516
if you like alf, then that's cool but he's clearly a brainlet compared to these Jews.

[Anonymous No.49817787]

>>49817561
QE increases the riskfree yield, as explained in "capital wars" and clearly observable through the data. The main function of QE is creating a risk-on environment which leads as you mentioned to increased lending + increased perceived value of mediocre collateral. This + risk-on effect is so strong that the riskfree yield goes up even though the amount of money/credit in the economy increases

[Anonymous No.49817856]

>>49816184
>comic book fan and Virgin mcCuck
Nagger detected. That's exactly the people I *want* to learn economics from, you colossal fucktard. Or you think some 2IQ gigachad will understand this subject better?

[Anonymous No.49817930]

>>49814184
>at this rate i fully expect the very word "inflation" to be removed from the vocabularies and be replaced with "price gouging" or "profiteering", fully blaming the suppliers/producers and utterly removing any responsibility from the government
>the very idea that printing money causes prices to rise will be disregarded as a conspiracy theory by the "experts"

Yep, it's already happening in slow motion. How many niggercattle even recognize inflation when they see it?

[Anonymous No.49817990]

>>49812546
Austrian economics is the only real economics. Everything else is cargo cult nonsense.
But politicians don't like Austrian economists because they always say "Leave the fucking market alone!".

[Anonymous No.49818076]

>>49816169

Seethe.

[Anonymous No.49818096]

>>49817114
>they had Alfonso Peccatiello on I exclusively follow his macro instead

Twitter search what he said on inflation, check his old interviews where he talks about demographics. It doesn't matter how smart these people are, they were all blindsided by the inflation & bond yield outbreak.

They were 180 degrees wrong, anyone who acted on their predictions got cleaned out. Just ignore these clowns and own Stocks, Bonds, Gold, the exact % here or there doesn't matter, tune out the noise. Market timing & predictions are a game of luck not skill.

[Anonymous No.49818160]

>>49817990
This is why I've tried to tell Austrians, who are usually total autists, that their tact is wrong.
They shouldn't be telling people what to do.
They should be explaining what will happen flatly and not making recommendations.
Would get a lot further that way.

As I said above, you aren't "against" the minimum wage, but you can explain the negatives that come along with it.
Feeling good can literally override other benefits because value is subjective.
For some people feeling good is better than having low paying jobs.
For people that want those jobs, it's neither pays the bills nor makes them feel good.

Stay out of telling people what to do. Just explain.
They will figure it out if you explain it well enough.
Clamoring for or against policies really doesn't get you anywhere in the last 200 years worth of political climate.

I saw things like "Yea I am for a higher minimum wage because I don't care if it raises unemployment, it's worth it."
Then you get questions from people that are legitimately trying to understand why you think it raises unemployment but are still for it.
It offers a unique perspective that actually might draw someone in because you agreed with their end.

Now, I'm not for a minimum wage. But all fair in love and war. You have to bait conversation and really draw them in.
Austrians, being autists, are horrible at this.

[Anonymous No.49818207]

>>49817990
To be clear.
To be a TRUE Austrian you must understand that value is subjective.
THEREFORE, you literally CAN'T say the minimum wage is bad.
What if everyone values feeling good over any of the negative effects?

A true Austrian, understanding subjective value. can't make policy recommendation except to explain their consequences.
People could literally WANT to live in shit.
They could value the sty over anything.
That is what is called an "ideal" and humans are capable of many ideals they value more than tangible goods or your ideals.

[Anonymous No.49818209]

>>49818076
confused about what I'm seething about, please clarify so I can properly seethe

[Anonymous No.49818409]

>>49814184
I'm seeing so many retards claiming what we have now isn't inflation

We have sub 80IQ useful idiots like>>49818207
>>49818160 that have to have multiple rotating subjective definitions of inflation just so he can keep his own NPC belief system consistent.

[Anonymous No.49818725]

there is some truth to this argument - capitalism is by its nature deflationary. Excess production drives prices down, if the economy was functioning as intended prices would only go down except for some commodities which become scarce. however, our money is broken and inflation caused by money devaluation is balancing the price decrease incurred by improved production. the only items which have reduced in price are technology items, TVs smartphones etc. all else have increased. If you have been all cash since 2000 the only thing you could buy more of and in higher quality would be cellphones and tv screens, broadband connection etc

[Anonymous No.49818778]

Merge mining with bitcoin serves the main purpose of giving the syscon platform the second highest hash rate in all of crypto; thus making it virtually impregnable.

[Anonymous No.49818876]

>>49818096
Yeah everyone was blindsided by inflation because Covid was an anomaly that caused a massive global supply chain constraint. Money has been ‘printing’ at the same rate since 2008 so why is it we’re just now seeing higher inflation than usual? Gee, can’t imagine why..

[Anonymous No.49818897]

>>49814559
>Supply creates demand.
what an actual fucking brainlet you are

[Anonymous No.49819173]

>>49815904
>Recessions are typically determined by speculative market performance
Right as if the Fed doesn't play a role in encouraging speculation or in tightening financial conditions via the monetary policy. That's the whole point. The Fed actually does matter.

>>49815920
>long TLT at 150
Rekt

[Anonymous No.49819223]

Why are these "macro gurus" all shocked by inflation when any idiot on /biz/ could tell you that we'd have inflation by printing 41% of all dollars during COVID and then creating a supply shock on top of that due to lockdowns?

[Anonymous No.49819410]

>>49812155
LOL

pretty smart angle

[Anonymous No.49819446]

>>49812155


pretty smart angle

[Anonymous No.49819627]

Back to your containment thread boomer rock chud.
Crypto chads run these streets

[Anonymous No.49820049]

>>49812155
>THE FED HAS NO POWER
the way you act, the way you think, your personality. they control it. they own your soul.

[Anonymous No.49820137]

you'll know who you really are when they raise the interest rates to 10% overnight.

[Anonymous No.49820314]

>>49818876
only MacroAlf, Jeff Snider, Steve van Metre etc, were loading up on long bonds in summer 2020, many other financial commentators were more cautious. These guys were locked into their own narrative.

[Anonymous No.49821140]

>>49818207
Minimum wage is not a price on the free market though, is it fuckwit? It's not like people have voluntarily decided on an arbitrary minimum wage. The government has forced employers to adhere to it.

[Anonymous No.49821584]

>>49817175
Jesus stfu already 40 posts in, this isnt plebbit not to mention your jewish tricks are not my idea have fun selling lampshades kike we are coming for you lol

[Anonymous No.49821679]

>NSA
>everything online
>feds are powerless

[Anonymous No.49821985]

Guys do i hold on to my TLT leaps?

[Anonymous No.49822522]

>>49821985
what was your buy-in? I'd just hold onto them now.

[Anonymous No.49823040]

>>49820314
Alf hasn’t been long bonds yet. Steve is a moron and thought there’d be a short squeeze on TLT and Jeff I only listen to in order to understand technicals of macro and how reserve and collateral systems work.

[Anonymous No.49823208]

>>49822522
have august and september calls, a week ago, so they are bleeding a bit , bought extra october 108 calls that i cashed it now for 1000 bucks profit, but feeling regrets already. So wondering whether i should load on more

[Anonymous No.49823270]

>>49812155
Everyone is backed into a corner.
FED wants to continue to exist, polticians want to get elected, banks want to profit.
It's a mexican standoff. They are all pointing fingers at each other pretending they are loaded guns and take turns narrating how they turned into bad guys like your anime villains.
>FED can't stop bailing out politicians or they'll villify them, politicians can't stop bailing out banks or they'll villify them, banks can't stop committing fraud or the FED will impoverish them.

[Anonymous No.49823375]

>>49823208
too early to buy TLT calls imo, I think the true panic hasn't even begun yet.

[Anonymous No.49823424]

>>49823375
i just see the eurodollar future curves inverted into 2022 already, kinda fomoed in desu senpai not gonna lie, i will keep buying calls for now though

[Anonymous No.49823636]

by the way Jeff snider appeared for the first time in zerohedge today

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/sorry-chair-powell-even-frbny-now-forecasting-serious-accelerating-recession-risk

[Anonymous No.49823713]

>>49813490
>t. liquidator that sees real prices at the end of all this daily.
what is this?

[Anonymous No.49823817]

They are by no means wrong now, are they?? And we all know it, don't we? I actually don't feel like arguing too much at present...
But freedom to make more money is non-negotiable Anons!!!

[Anonymous No.49823821]

>>49814057
>Don't worry. I'll sell you all the stuff I'm currently buying at 20x in a couple years.
what stuff is that?

[Anonymous No.49824046]

>>49814750
>Demand creates supply. Why would something be produced if there is no demand for it?

What he's saying is before the iPhone was invented, people did not know they wanted an iPhone. It had to be produced first before people realized "oh that looks like a good product, I want to buy one."

When you have a surplus and everyone's basic survival needs are taken care of, people use the surplus to invest and create new things / inventions / products. If it is a useful product then the market will begin to have a demand for it, thus

Surplus leads to new products which leads to new demand for those products

[Anonymous No.49824109]

>>49814075
>A demand for money ? There isn't a demand for money there is a demand for product & services.
How to increase demand for product and services? I know! We'll just import millions of 3rd worlders and give them never-ending gibs so they can buy shit without ever contributing to anything! But at least they're stimulating the economy!
The Middle East is a shit hole? I know! We'll just give them Trillions$$$ in gibs for "muh Oil", so they can pay other countries to build their countries for them!

[Anonymous No.49824324]

>>49823636
No, he's been on it a few times before, zerohedge just deletes old stuff because they're faggots

[Anonymous No.49824421]

>>49824046
And then after inventing the fax machine the company went bankrupt because no one used it

[Anonymous No.49824430]

>>49814226
>neurologist
Anon, I-
You do realize that most of the Medical Industry is a complete scam right?

[Anonymous No.49824508]

>>49814317
>If I produce more meat than I can eat, I've created demand for other goods.
So someone producing millions of Typewriters increases demand for Computers? I'm not sure about that one.
>Printing money tricks people thinking there has been production.
Correct.

[Anonymous No.49824714]

>>49814463
>bank loans create money not a printer ?
Yes.
If a bank "loans" you money to spend, they are expecting you to pay them back. The bank doesn't have to have any money to loan you money. But when you pay them back that money they """loaned""" you, then suddenly the bank DOES have money.
If the bank "loans" you money, and you don't pay it back; the bank loses NOTHING. If the bank "loans" you $1,000,000, but you only pay them back $100; the bank just profited $100. As we learned from 2008, it makes no difference what-so-ever if the bank is "in debt". To them, that debt is just "imaginary".

[Anonymous No.49824825]

>>49814499
>That's what they do with housing constantly.
Also, when you consider that foreign countries can """invest""" in Western housing markets (China, Blackrock, etc), they are effectively using the Western citizens as a source of revenue to exist in their own countries.

So they can just ask Western banks to give them loans to buy US houses, and then rent or AirB&B those out to American citizens, so those American citizens pay off the foreign investors' mortgages while pocketing the profit.

Western governments NEED to start regulating housing, because things are beyond fucked up right now.

[Anonymous No.49825227]

>>49824421
>And then after inventing the fax machine the company went bankrupt because no one used it
that's not true, the fax machine was used for a while

>In the year 1970, 25,000 fax machines were in use, by 1980 there were 250,000 fax machines. The numbers grew even faster, from 1985 to 1990 fax machine use grew from 500,000 devices to over 5 million (“Stars: Fax Machine.”)

[Anonymous No.49825269]

>>49824825
>>49824714
>>49824508

you better not be the same schizo as the silver shill and you better not try to shill Bayhorse again. you have a similar posting style

[Anonymous No.49825311]

>>49815239
>I see this communication problem typically with people that have no historical perspective.
You don't need to know history to understand the economy. I'm sorry, but you can't read the future by being a History-Autist. Things happen in the real world that can completely fuck up any of your "predictions".

[Anonymous No.49825517]

>>49815760
>If the Fed has no power:
They honestly don't have as much power as people think. The Banks that are allowed to """loan""" money to people, and NGO's that receive Government financial assistance DO have a crazy amount of power.

[frenanon No.49826128]

>>49817297
>Someone gets a job and produces something.
Well, there's actually no reason at all this needs to be true. You think people who get loans from Banks so they can buy Houses, and then rent/AirB&B those Houses out are producing value? No, they're not, they're just siphoning money from people. Or, you could:
>Get business loan for """vaccine development"""
>Create shitcoins
>Use the business loan to pump shitcoins you own
>Sell vaccines to governments around the world
>Have other people buy your over-valued shitcoins, while you collect various currencies they used to purchase your shitcoins (U$D, Yuan, Ruble, etc)
>Use those currencies to pump your """Vaccine Company's""" stonks
>People invest MORE money into your pseudo-company because they see your stonks are rising!
>Use that money to pump up your shitcoins
>People buy your shitcoins because apparently your shitcoin is increasing in value because reasons
>Use the increased value of your shitcoins to pump your pseudo-company's stonks
>....
>repeat

[frenanon No.49826483]

>>49818725
>if the economy was functioning as intended prices would only go down except for some commodities which become scarce. however, our money is broken and inflation caused by money devaluation is balancing the price decrease incurred by improved production
It's because the people in charge of current Government policies and legislation are using money to "equalize" the world, by removing the barriers between 1-3rd world countries, and making the whole world a 2.5 world nation, instead of allowing any nation to be TOO prosperous. Because that would be "unfair".

[frenanon No.49826822]

>>49825269
>you better not be the same schizo as the silver shill and you better not try to shill Bayhorse again. you have a similar posting style
No, I'm not the silver/bayhorse shill. Nothing in my posts has anything to do with those as far as I'm aware.

[Anonymous No.49826852]

>>49813919
>i call something with another name
>how do people don't understand me on my terms? i must be so smart
schizo tier narcissist

[Anonymous No.49826894]

>>49814226
Nigger can't even speak English how the fuck could you hire people

[Anonymous No.49827337]

>>49816204
Meh.
Don't call someone stupid if you don't want them to hit you with reality.
I also took the SAT in 6th grade.
Cope faggot.

[Anonymous No.49827440]

>>49826852
It's not me, it's literally the greatest economists of all time.
I'd likes to have had all these ideas myself.
Words change over time and usually to become a weapon against you.

[Anonymous No.49827462]

>>49827337
>>49827440
Im OP now drunk from the gold course phone posting.
Cope everyone.
Inflation is deflation.

[Anonymous No.49827488]

>>49827337
>>49827440
>>49827462
Nm.
I'm not OP, I'm the guy that responded to OP everyone is arguing with.
Birdied 3.
5 footer straight in.

[Anonymous No.49827952]

>>49821140
lmao
What if everyone prefers that?
You don't consider yourself an Austrian do you?
So, what I said, does not have to apply to you.
You are like a WOMAN, who can't and won't here qualifiers lie "if" and "when".
You have to take what I said before "if" as established.
It's a thought and logic exercise.

Unless you can argue against me using an Austrian perspective you are saying fuck all no matter how true it is.
Value is subjective.
If everyone, IF IF IF prefers to feel good than examine economic reality you literally cannot argue against it as being "wrong."
Are you trying to push YOUR subjective values on others bro?

[Anonymous No.49828004]

If the 500% the money supply and prices have only risen 250%. That's deflation.
COPE AND SEETHE. BACK FROM THE COURSE ABOUT TO DRINK WHISKEY.

[Anonymous No.49828025]

>>49827337
>>49827440
>>49827462
>>49827488
>>49827952
>>49828004
Also I fucking LOVE /biz/ when everything is economically in the shitter.
How is this thread still up?
Love it.

[Anonymous No.49828066]

CETERIS PARIBUS

I've fucking got it ironed out for midwits now.

ALL THINGS EQULAL.
ALL FUCKING THINGS.
5x the money supply means 5x higher prices.
We haven't seen that.
We've seen a 5x in the money supply and a doubling in prices max on even the most inflated prices.

This is deflation in price RELATIVE TO MONEY SUPPLY.
Prices have not reflected the amount of money printing properly because of deflationary pressures.
DEFLATION RELATIVE TO MONEY SUPPLY.

[Anonymous No.49828110]

>>49828004
>prices rise
>that’s deflation
Jej?
>>49828066
Why does it have to be relative to the money supply - because you said so? That’s not deflation if prices rise from their previous price level

[Anonymous No.49828166]

>>49828110
Go with me.

You have a pizza, eight slices.
There are 8 dollars.
What's a slice of pizza?
A dollar? Right?
Surely.

So now there are $16 dollars.
What's a slice of pizza?
Two dollars right?

So where we are currently is that The dollars have risen to $40.
But pizza slices are still only $3.

This is deflation of prices relative to money supply.
Which is all that people with money care about.
Benefits them massively.
But if you have no money...of course you're fucked.

[Anonymous No.49828190]

>>49828110
But this is what I've been attempting to explain the entire thread before getting drunk.
There is deflation in real terms relative to money supply.
But this can happen, and of course does happen, as prices rise.

[Anonymous No.49828211]

>>49828066
What is money velocity ?. Money sitting in the bank does not equal money circulating. Inflation is a lagging indicator of the increase in money supply and it is directly correlated with the demand of the money. ALL OF THE WORLD wants USD you cant trade oil without USD and even with that amount of demand we still see inflation, That is the definition of insanity.

[Anonymous No.49828274]

>>49828190
>40 posts by this ID
>duuuude money supply inflation is huge but price inflation is merely gigantic, therefore there is no inflation
How are you still going you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.49828283]

>>49828211
Yes, money velocity is surely part of the factor here.
If it were instantaneous then we'd see the prices 5x as soon as supply 5x'd.
But that is impossible.
They are just wasting as much of it as they can as one of their greatest strategies.

The amount of ditch digging going on is ridiculous.
Just look at bitcoin, kek!

[frenanon No.49828302]

>>49828066
>5x the money supply means 5x higher prices.
>We haven't seen that.
Of course, that's because it's not that simple.

Let's say you have a society of 100 people.
Now let's say you give out $100Million to 100 people; so $1Million per person.
Those 100 people will have the same purchasing power as before they got the $1Million.
So they scale their prices to accurately reflect the "value".

Now let's take that same society of 100 people, but do things a little differently.
Let's say you gave 1 person $100Million.
That 1 person now has considerably more purchasing power than others.
The 99 people will still be trading things close to their original value, and it will take a while until the prices increase due to the fact that the $100Million isn't instantly injected into the economy.

[Anonymous No.49828309]

>>49828274
You actually explained it correctly. You just miss the implications like most people.
I don't know how I'm still here either.
I played 27 holes for god's sake.

[frenanon No.49828395]

>>49828274
>40 posts by this ID
Not everyone has an entire team (or VPNS) they use to be able to steer conversations.

[Anonymous No.49828445]

>>49828395
What direction is it being "steered"?
kek

[Anonymous No.49828615]

>>49812155
This is an age old Jewish trick and all advocates for centralization/ZOG act as if the FED is powerless. The truth is once they get a CBDC it's game over for banks, financial institutions, the government, democracy (was gay and horribly perverted from what happened in ancient grease anyway) and etc. Well they stand to profit as well if they play ball of course. But the FED won't need institutions any longer to borrow or anything really it will just be their word and you literally are powerless against an institution that can never be audited, questioned or held accountable in any meaningful way.

[Anonymous No.49828976]

>>49817561
This still hasn't been refuted deflation tards.
>>49828302
This still hasn't been refuted deflation tards.


BRO BOR BRO if you ignore the velocity of money and higher equity prices and higher CPI and higher commodity prices then technically inflation is low!

[Anonymous No.49829181]

>>49812155
FED is scared shittless trying to avoid what it did around 2004-2008 which is to increase interest rates by 3-5% and initiate an economic downturn like it did back then.

[Anonymous No.49829477]

>>49829181
its not worth it to cause a recession when its not going to fix supply issues or inflation, the bulk of inflation is energy related, Russia is cutting off Kazahkstan from exporting more oil to fuck over the Euros and to scare the Kazahks into behaving, Columbia just elected some shitty new president(?) who will cut off oil exports/production(?), no one will build a new refinery, domestic oil production can't go any higher, this is not the Feds issue to deal with, its economic policy failing globally.

[frenanon No.49830514]

>>49829477
>its not worth it to cause a recession
What IS a recession? I've never really figured that out.

[Anonymous No.49830996]

>>49812155
Don't share these gems with this group of degenerates, you gay cunt OP.

[Anonymous No.49831395]

>>49814057
Are you arguing that the velocity of fiat money causes inflation rather than the creating of fiat money?

>>49814128
>RELATIVE prices are diving on everything but fuel and commodities.
>>49814601
This is making more sense to me.

>>49815239
>I see this communication problem typically with people that have no historical perspective.
Bro, I am going to be fair and honest here. You are a poor communicator. You have bizarre syntax, you are quick to anger, you are arrogant. You obviously know a lot about economics, but your ability to communicate is terrible.

>>49815781
>The simple task of admitting you may be wrong, even on occasion, has toppled many otherwise great men in history
Based.

>>49818409
>We have sub 80IQ useful idiots
That's not true, dude.

>>49828066
>>49828166
>>49828190
>This is deflation in price RELATIVE TO MONEY SUPPLY.
Prices have not reflected the amount of money printing properly because of deflationary pressures.
DEFLATION RELATIVE TO MONEY SUPPLY.
Checked. I think he is right, /biz/bros. Drinking may make (You) more coherent.

>>49828283
It will eventually become inflationary though, after a short relatively deflationary period.