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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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49670806 No.49670806 [Reply] [Original]

Explain why stocks have value without saying "you can sell it to someone else for more"

>> No.49670831

A stock doesnt have "value", it's basically just like betting on success of companies.

There is nothing wrong with this though.

>> No.49670865

>>49670806
do you know what a dividend is anon

>> No.49670870

>>49670831
>pay money for something that has no value
Wanna rephrase that?

>> No.49670893

>>49670806
You're literally owning part of the company + possible dividends

>> No.49670923

>>49670893
>owning part of a company
So what?
>possible dividends
>possible
let me invest money so I can possibly get a return sounds very intelligent

>> No.49670945

>>49670806
Stocks of businesses are valuable because the business produces goods or provides a service that eventually cause the company providing them to grow in value, thus increasing the value of its stock. Crypto, on the other hand, takes your real money and exchanges it for internet play money, which you can trade with, then when you try to sell and cash out, you get paid with fake money that you need to depend on others being willing to trade their real money for in order to actually profit.

>> No.49670977

>>49670945
>Stocks of businesses are valuable because the business produces goods or provides a service that eventually cause the company providing them to grow in value, thus increasing the value of its stock.
How is this any different from your criticism of crypto (i hate crypto btw)

>> No.49671004

>>49670865
He doesn't because they don't matter anymore. hell look up b an c class shares, you don't even get voting rights with those, totally pointless but people invest regardless.

>> No.49671005

They represent ownership of companies which create something of value to society, plus said company own assets of non zero value.

>> No.49671010

>>49670806
because you own a part of a business that holds real life assets that have value

>> No.49671030

>>49670806
Daily reminder that every single finance asset like stocks,bonds,debt,crypto,money etc are all purely parasitical in nature and serve no purpose nor have any inherent value. Finance and economics are pseudoscientific make believe garbage, capitalism is inherently unstable,unsustainable and exploitative and every single financier or crypto dudebro is a literal parasite. I sincerely hope every single one of you parasites burns in hell alongside your precious stock market and blockchain

>> No.49671044

>>49670923
>So what?
What do you want me to say? Are you a filthy commie or what?

>> No.49671106
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49671106

>>49670923
>let me invest money so I can possibly get a return sounds very intelligent

>> No.49671115

>>49671005
>>49671010
>>49671044
What value do I get for having a paper that says I own 1 gorillionth of a share of said company?

>> No.49671161

>>49670893
No you do not lmao

>> No.49671308

>>49670977
crypto is entirely speculative
stock market is only partly speculative
big difference, even if we ignore intrinsic value
also owning equity benefits greatly from centralization which is slowly but surely happening to crypto as well but the latter actually loses value there lol

>> No.49671319

>>49671161
Are you dumb? Why would Musk try to get over 50% of twatter stonks if it means nothing? Why am I even arguing with room temperature IQ niggers?

>> No.49671328

>>49670923
>let me invest money so I can possibly get a return sounds very intelligent
Literally yes. What is the problem here?

>> No.49671349

>>49670806
It entitles me to receive dividends.

>> No.49671376

>>49671328
You buy a share and that share can maybe pay dividends. You can be a cuck holding Alphabet stock that will never actually get any money from them.

>> No.49671423

>>49670806
depends on the equity.
>you can sell it to someone else for more
if the company wants to manipulate their stock price, they issue buybacks.
the stock market is also effectively manipulated through QE, which is still 'someone else buying it'.
if the company has no growth, they'll provide dividends (e.g. get $0.15 per quarter on a $300 share lol).
so more or less besides dividends, yea, the only reason you would buy it is because the government has told you that's how you build wealth and you're hoping the next generation does the same thing.

>> No.49671524

>>49670831
Unless that company goes under and the money from that bet is from a debt from another company which is tied to a bank which is tied to the FED which was lent out and then the whole economy implodes.

But other than that, ye its fine.

>> No.49671623

>>49671319
They would owe him money, not the company hahahaha.

>> No.49671654

>>49671376
>You buy a share and that share can maybe pay dividends. You can be a cuck holding Alphabet stock that will never actually get any money from them.
Yes. What do you not understand?

You buy a stock that pays dividends and you get dividends. Or you buy a stock that puts its money into growth. That stock might give you dividends in the future. Or the company might use its money to buy back shares. Or the company might have a bad business model and wont make any money. Maybe you lose it all

You are risking capital and are paying opportunity cost in the hopes that you will get back more capital in the future. You choose what company you invest in. Do you want a company with low risk/low reward or do you want a company with high risk/high reward. Maybe you are a retard and even chose high risk/low reward. You choose the risk.

Where is the problem? What is annoying you here?

>> No.49671709

>>49670923
>Wat u mean investing risky, grug no like.

>> No.49671720

>>49671524
the who 'intrinsic value' investing is bullshit.
even if you own class A shares, if the company goes bankrupt, you get nothing during a bankruptcy, only secured creditors and there are usually three groups of secured creditors before you.
Class B & C, there is absolutely no value.

>> No.49671728

>>49670945
>internet play money,
Lowest IQ take, I bet you don't understand how mining works.

>> No.49671758

>>49671030
>serve no purpose nor have any inherent value
You people need to fuck off to bunker chan and stay there.

>> No.49671771

>>49670806
Because I expect the company to release product X betting on the success of it meaning that the demand on the stocks will rise once the product gets announced.

>> No.49671773

>>49671030
Hell isn't real, sweaty.
For a faggot with no coins and no money you sure are upset about something you have supposedly zero stake in.

>> No.49671792

>>49671654
What if a company thinks it can grow forever and never pays out dividends?

>> No.49671823

>>49671654
because dividends don't pay shit unless you bought shares several years before the stock being worth a damn.
e.g. dillards trades at around $300 and dividend at $0.15. that return is so abysmally low they only way that anyone would give a shit about that dividend is if they bought dillards at $25 a share and with it at $300, no one who bought at $25 is going to continue holding for 15 cents a quarter, they're just gonna pocket the $275 difference, because it would take thousands? hundreds of thousands? of years to break even if you didn't sell.

>> No.49671890

Companies have physical assets which is part of the valuation of stock. In more abstract sense, stock is a means to generate company income into productivity improvement and innovation - the engine of traditional capitalism.

This is in comparison to shitcoins which are an ethereal scam propped up by useless idiots and a small circle of shysters.

>> No.49671895

>>49671792
oh, you must be referring to FAANG.
yea, they just continue to grow indefinitely until inflation hits really hard and we have a major recession, at which point everything becomes 40% of it's 'value'.

>> No.49671959

>>49671890
but that's not true at all.
when they publish their liabilities/revenue etc, they're brand will be listed as an intangible asset, that's worthless, but will be on their books valued at like 10-20% of their companies assets.
If they declare bankruptcy, you get nothing, which shits on the financial driven investing theories.

>> No.49671988

>>49671115
It confirms your legal ownership of 1 gorillionth of a share of said company. Are you trying to argue against the ownership of property here?

>> No.49672082
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49672082

>>49670806
stocks are supposed to be sold to people just for the dividends
then some genius realized you can trade and speculate stocks with each other to get more money
thus, the stock market was born

>> No.49672121

>>49670865
90% of the NASDAQ has never paid dividends.

>> No.49672135

Here's one: stocks have value because the company makes things and hopefully profits. If another company or entity wants to buy the whole company they have to buy it from you if you own the stock.

>> No.49672177

>>49671792
>What if a company thinks it can grow forever and never pays out dividends?
Then don't buy that company and buy another one? You have the responsibility for your money. If you don't trust Berkshire or FAANG, buy something else. If stock buybacks to increase the value of your share are not enough, buy something else.

>>49671823
>dillards
Who forced you to buy dillards at 300$? Did the Gestapo kick in your door at night and forced you to sign anything? And what is wrong in taking profits? As written previously there are multiple ways to make profit in stocks. One of them is dividends. You are responsible in choosing which companies or sectors you invest in.

What point are you even trying to make here? What is the key issue you don't like? That there are companies that don't pay enough dividends?

>> No.49672220

Centuries ago stocks were a fraction of a company's assets-liabilities. The problem came when speculative jeuden came along and let companies manipulate their balance sheet with garbage like 'goodwill' 'brand awareness' and 'future earnings'.

>> No.49672241

>>49670806
Companies that make a real product make money and then in turn pay a dividend to their investors. Warren Buffet earns millions of dollars in dividends every day.

>> No.49672285

>>49672121
Why would anyone smart buy stocks from the nasdaq?

>> No.49672351

>>49671959
>when they publish their liabilities/revenue etc, they're brand will be listed as an intangible asset, that's worthless, but will be on their books valued at like 10-20% of their companies assets.

Brand *does* carry value. What you're making here is a superficial argument that trust is valueless.

>If they declare bankruptcy, you get nothing, which shits on the financial driven investing theories.

In liquidation shareholders are last in line, they can still get something from the process after debts are paid. For this position they do not hold liability on the companies debts.

Anyway, what you're now trying to argue is that risk invalidates reward which is not only false when looking at the holistic market but also deontologically wrong when looking at capitalist theory. You buy shares in a company, those shares confer a variable degree of ownership both at present and future reward, the company uses that money to innovate, operate etc., sometimes your investment in that activity produces reward or failure but from a macro perspective the pie has consistently grown.

>> No.49672459

>>49670806
Explain why cars have value without saying "you can drive it somewhere"

>> No.49672471

>>49672177
you're intentionally being retarded.
no, no one is forced to participate in the stock market.
yes, it's only logical to take profits.
you were insinuating buying a speculative common share is reasonable and he argues only common shares with dividends make sense as financial instruments.
you're more wrong then him, but you're both wrong.
dividends don't pay shit and common shares have no value, other then the value may go up due to market manipulation, e.g. QE or share buybacks.
the intention of the stock market is to allow companies to raise revenue to new projects/products, and in return, you are supposed to get something, for fronting the money. the modern reality is that you get nothing from buying common shares, because they're just privatized money printers for businesses, basically the same as any cryptocurrency company selling utility tokens.

>> No.49672544

>>49670806
Stocks represent ownership of a business. Are you asking why owning a business has value you fucking retard? kek

>> No.49672594

>>49670870
>>49670923
I flip a coin and every time it lands heads, I'll give you a dollar. You have to pay me 0.49 cents for every time I flip though.

>> No.49672652

>>49671004
>>49672121
You're not buying it for this year's dividends, brainlets.

>> No.49672672

>>49670806
It entitles the owner to dividends
It confers voting rights.
It entitles the holder to a portion of proceeds from liquidation of the company.
It represents part ownership of a company.

>> No.49672704

>>49672351
The brand has absolutely no value during a bankruptcy.
The only way it can have any value is if a competitor decides they want the brand, but would buy the company prior to bankruptcy proceedings moving forward. Which, you're being disingenuous, because that rarely happens, because logically, why would you pay off another companies debts before bankruptcy, when you can let those debts be written off. At which point, all the original common stock is discarded and new stock is issued, to new secured shareholders, after restructuring.
Again, the brand will be on assets as a huge portion of the companies assets, but no one will actually buy it, which means it has no value.
>In liquidation shareholders are last in line, they can still get something from the process after debts are paid.
good, so you clearly understand common shareholders get nothing during a bankruptcy.
>Anyway, what you're now trying to argue is that risk invalidates reward
never stated that. All I pointed out is 'true value investing' is bullshit. doesn't mean you can't make money off common shares. but you can't for any rational reason without market manipulation, stock buybacks/QE/merger & acquisitions.

>> No.49672749

>>49670806
fuck you Im not doing your homework for you

>> No.49672774

>>49672594
based. this is a very simple analogy that describes the modern stock market intelligibly.

>> No.49672961

>>49670806
because someone else will buy it off you for more,

>> No.49673034

You partially own a company. It really is that simple. The fact that a typical retail holder's portion of a large company is tiny and irrelevant in the grand scheme of things is a difference of degree, not of type.

>> No.49673302

>>49672471
>the modern reality is that you get nothing from buying common shares, because they're just privatized money printers for businesses, basically the same as any cryptocurrency company selling utility tokens.
You are the retard here. The point I am arguing is that it is absolutely your fault if you are in the situation you describe. You know the shareholder policy of the specific company and it is your fault if you gave them money. Nobody is forcing you to buy stocks. Mining and commodity stocks pay out extremely nice dividends and I am very happy with them.

>> No.49673622

>>49673302
oh fuck off.
before you purchase an equity, no, you don't go review all the legalese in the SEC filings. let alone the historical filings.
you want to try to pretend the market operates rationally but just individual purchasers don't 'do enough research'.
your mining stocks are dogshit and will likely go bankrupt. that's what they do.
They will stave off bankruptcy as long as they can by continuously diluting you and raising more capital. and they will sell their gold and silver at a discount even while the prices rise.
you are an incredibly stupid, but good goy.
Isreal is our greatest ally.

>> No.49673953

>>49673302
hold on, I'm not done with you yet.
you understand the higher the dividend yield, the greater financial stress the company is under, right? or are you too retarded to understand dividends are best case, offered because the companies growth is stagnant?

>> No.49674101

>>49672594
So you pay him on average .01 per flip?

>> No.49674152

>>49670865
Yeah there are so many great Dividend stocks performer. Much wow. Very amazing.

>> No.49674178

>>49670806
If you don't sell your stock you can also get a payback with stockbuy backs or dividends. The only companies that does neither are either companies that will go bankrupt in the short term or growth stocks.

>> No.49674312

>>49671115
You buy it hoping that one day is going to worth more because you think the company is going to be great.

It's like having children, but you can sell them any time you want.

>> No.49675190

>>49674101
Yes. Take that as the average, long-term return of your stock.

>> No.49675226

>>49670806
IF I BUY ENOUGH, I OWN THE COMPANY

>> No.49675904

>>49672652
They have never paid dividends, retard. You are basically buying the promise that they might pay dividends one day.

>> No.49675956

>>49672672
>It entitles the owner to dividends
like a staked shitcoin
>It confers voting rights.
like a shitcoin
>It entitles the holder to a portion of proceeds from liquidation of the company.
in the last place after every other creditor
>It represents part ownership of a company.
like a shitcoin

>> No.49676018

>>49675956
What physical assets does your shitcoin entitle you to?