/XMR/ Monero General

[Anonymous No.49512476]

Welcome to the Monero General, dedicated to the discussion of the world's leading decentralized P2P privacy cryptocurrency!

Monero is secure, low-fee, and fungible, meaning users can send XMR around the globe despite corrupt governments or broken financial systems. Innovative privacy features such as Ring Signatures, Stealth Addresses, and Ring CT ensure that Monero's blockchain is obfuscated -- In other words, the financial history of all Monero users is encrypted from the prying eyes of adversaries on a public blockchain, with transactions being visible only by a user willingly providing a view key.

Monero has also improved upon the scaling downsides of current popular cryptos. To avoid high fees, dynamic block size ensures that the size of the blocks will increase as the amount of transactions increases. Further, the mining network algorithm RandomX establishes that anybody with a CPU can participate in mining, preventing the ASIC miner domination that creates a high barrier of entry. Lastly, the mining network will be preserved by Tail Emission -- instead of the block reward falling to zero like with Bitcoin, the block reward will gradually approach 0.6 XMR in June 2022, where it will forever stay. This constant linear inflation means the inflation rate will asymptotically go to zero while continuing to provide an incentive to miners to maintain the network.

If you still have questions, feel free to ask and a MoneroChad will be with you shortly.

XMR Redpill: https://youtu.be/wq6w03E2DS4

XMR Stats: moneroj.net

USE Monero: https://cryptwerk.com/pay-with/xmr/

OFFICIAL WEBSITE - getmonero.org

WHERE TO GET MONERO?

>KYC:
Kraken
Binance
Bitfinex

>Non KYC:
LocalMonero
Morphtoken
Bisq
Kucoin
Tradeogre
Crypto ATMs
see: kycnot.me

>Mining
archive.is/TWOah

HOW TO STORE MONERO?

>Desktop
Official Gui/Cli
My Monero
Exodus
Feather

>Mobile
IOS: Cakewallet
Android: Monerujo

[Anonymous No.49512516]

PREVIOUS THREAD: >>49464155

[Anonymous No.49512518]

Justin is up to something... I know it

[Anonymous No.49512550]

STOP MINING IN MINEXMR
>START MINING IN P2POOL
STOP MINING IN MINEXMR
>START MINING IN P2POOL

P2Pool combines the advantages of pool and solo mining; you still fully control your Monero node and what it mines, but you get frequent payouts like on a regular pool.

P2Pool has no central server that can be shutdown/blocked because it uses a separate blockchain to merge mine with Monero. There's no pool admin that can control what your hashrate is used for or decide who can mine on the pool and who can't; It's permissionless!

Decentralized pool mining (P2Pool) is pretty much the ultimate way to secure a PoW coin against 51% attacks. When P2Pool reaches 51% of the total network hashrate, Monero will be essentially invulnerable to such attacks.


YOU CAN NOW MINE IN P2POOL DIRECTLY FROM THE MONERO GUI WALLET!

If you have a PC or laptop:

1. Download Monero GUI
https://i.imgur.com/ZGefPef.png

2. Pick 'Advanced' mode
https://i.imgur.com/4c0uSE4.png

3. Set up your wallet
https://i.imgur.com/4lMKh00.png

4. Keep the default Daemon settings "Start a node automatically in the background"
https://i.imgur.com/maACmmT.png

5. Once sync'd, go to Advanced->Mining and pick 'P2Pool'. If you have a laptop or low-end PC (~50 kH/s) pick "Mini" pool, else pick "Main"
https://i.imgur.com/E60JeMG.png

P2Pool-compatible remote nodes if you do not have your own local copy of the blockchain:

>p2pmd.xmrvsbeast.com - (Western Europe) (rpc-port 18081, zmq-port 18083)
>myxmr.net - (Northern Europe) (rpc-port 18081, zmq-port 18083)

OTHERWISE SWITCH TO A SMALLER POOL, IT TAKES YOU 30 SECONDS AND YOU CAN JUST SOURCE A DIFFERENT CONFIG FILE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO FUCK UP YOUR EXISTING ONE.

Many inexperienced miners think that big pools give better profits which is not the case. Your profits in the long run depend only on your hashrate, not on the pool's hashrate.

https://web.xmrpool.eu/xmr-monero-easy-mining-guide.html
https://monero.hashvault.pro/en/getting-started
https://www.supportxmr.com

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49512563]

Reporting in

tor irc- https://pst.klgrth.io/paste/tzm4s
Aliases- https://pst.klgrth.io/paste/bjbx3
Extras- https://pst.klgrth.io/paste/daxte
Nodes- https://pst.klgrth.io/paste/ke2k8
Mining- https://pst.klgrth.io/paste/c7na4

[Anonymous No.49512589]

*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****
>*****/XMR/ Monero General Info-Dump*****


Learn more about Monero's key features and excellent future prospects, have some common misconceptions dispelled and discover the cold hard facts about Bitcoin, Zcash and PirateChain. Also featured is a noob-friendly buying, storage and wallet guide.


>Monero: it's what new Bitcoin users think they bought. Every feature, explained
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org


>Why Monero is so untraceable: a rundown of the powerful stealth tech Monero utilizes
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroIsUntraceable


>The Writing on the Wall: Monero replacing Bitcoin as the new standard
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#MoneroReplacingBitcoin


>Breaking News: no, Monero still isn't traceable
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#RecognizingTraceabilityFUD


>Vaporware: why nobody is worried about CipherTrace's magic crystal ball
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#CipherTraceFail


>Very Clever Math: how we can verify that the XMR supply isn't being inflated
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org/#MuhInflationBug


>Pssst, wanna buy some Monero? Follow these simple how-to guides
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BuyAndStoreMonero


>Bitcoin: The Original Non-Fungible Token
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#BitcoinBlackpill


>Why Monero is Better than Zcash: the "privacy coin" criminals won't touch
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#ZcashBlackpill


>The Lowdown on PirateChain: why this Zcash clone is considered a scam
https://moneroinfodump.neocities.org#PirateChainBlackpill


>LATEST UPDATES

- added Proof-of-Stake update to Zcash Blackpill
- added list of available desktop/mobile wallets
- expanded all sections with more relevant info, graphics & videos
- added easily linkable headers and sub-headers (link icon to the far right)
- added a new section about traceability FUD

[Anonymous No.49512615]

>The irrational exuberance of cryptocurrency investors

Irrational exuberance is characterized as a hype-fueled mania that causes investors to massively overestimate an asset's real-world value. In this delusional state, investors tend to become so smitten with expectations of greater profits that they disregard the assets’ potentially weak fundamentals and drink the proverbial Kool-Aid.

This then leads to them recklessly and repeatedly buying into whatever asset is currently rising in the charts, thereby triggering and/or sustaining an asset bubble. This bubble is kept inflated solely by the mass delusion that the market price is justified and will only keep going up in future, effectively becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Note that bubbles can last for years, especially in an age of easy investor on-boarding. However, when history inevitably repeats and the bubble bursts that optimism invariably turns into panic as the asset crashes back down to its real-world value.

In finance, the "greater fool theory" suggests that one can sometimes make money through the purchase of overvalued assets—items with a purchase price drastically exceeding the intrinsic value—if those assets can later be resold at an even higher price.

In this context, one "fool" might pay for an overpriced asset, hoping that he can sell it to an even "greater fool" and make a profit. This only works as long as there are enough new "greater fools" willing to pay higher and higher prices for the asset. Eventually, investors can no longer deny that the price is out of touch with reality, at which point a sell-off can cause the price to drop significantly until it is closer to its fair value, which in some cases could be zero.

This effect is often further exacerbated by herd mentality, whereby people hear stories of others who bought in early and made big profits, causing those who did not buy to feel a fear of missing out.

[Anonymous No.49512642]

Never forget what this is ultimately all about.

[Anonymous No.49512643]

>>49512476
People still buy this obvious pedophile coin? I hope they know that anyone that interacts or even purchases Monero gets automatically put on a list.

[Anonymous No.49512701]

>No tail emission = Bitcoin is fucked

Right now, at the current hashrate, miners break even on energy expenses at a BTC price of $22K. Post 2024 halving, that break even point, at the current hashrate, goes up to $44K. If BTC does not go to $44K, miners will be unprofitable and hashrate will have to drop (miners going out of business) to reduce the cost of securing the network, also reducing the security.

If you know anything about the power of 2, you already know that things get very big, very fast. If we’re 3 halvings into 32 total halvings, then the estimated break even point for miners at current hashrate going into the last halving would be:

$22,000 * (2^27) = $2,952,790,016,000 per BTC

$2,952,790,016,000 per BTC * 21 Million total Bitcoin = $62,008,590,336,000,000,000 BTC Market Cap

The block rewards shrink so fast that after enough halvings bitcoin would eventually require a $2.95 trillion price per Bitcoin and a $62 quintillion market cap to sustain the current cost of $7.15 billion/year.

Even if these numbers were somehow realistic, can you imagine securing a $62 quintillion market cap on only $7.15 billion/year of hashrate? LOL.

And that’s assuming energy costs do not increase at all over the next 120 years, which they will.

So basically BTC mining will eventually become so unprofitable the hashrate (network security) will shrivel up UNLESS it is subsidized by BTC transaction fees.

https://cryptostackers.substack.com/p/bitcoin-is-not-a-store-of-value

[Anonymous No.49512711]

>>49512643
>He's not on a list with his frens

NGMI

[Anonymous No.49512778]

>>49512643
thanks for the buy signal. YWNBAW, you kiked faggot.

[None !fxjPc9dvjM No.49512816]

>https://www.monerochan.art/

[Anonymous No.49512831]

I will soon reach my goal of a XXX XMR stack. So I was thinking of diversifying my crypto holdings.

I am interested in DERO and KDA.

Does Kadena have a proper technical whitepaper? The 3 on their site are all shit tier normie ~10-pagers.

Kaddex seems promising, especially if they will list XMR.

What are your thoughts on a potential Moneroesqe anonymous crypto with smart contract capabilities native to the Kadena ecosystem?

t.not a tranny.

[Anonymous No.49512880]

>dont buy Monero its used to buy CP and DRUGS
isnt the most common currency used by criminals the USD, simply because its the most globally accessible?
Do these people ever think critically?

[Anonymous No.49512902]

Can someone link me a good guide on how to set up a private full node? Shit ive found so far was either outdated or had mistakes in it

[Anonymous No.49512957]

>>49512880
let's hire someone to push his shit in for like 2 XMR. kek.

[Anonymous No.49513052]

>>49512518
Who, the fag?
Meds, are you taking them anon?
This kid has no influence over the protocol.
He barely, if ever, talks on #monero-dev. He talks a bit on #monero-community and was forced to create his own workgroup called Monero Space where he could implement the "community rules" he wanted, since the overall community on IRC agreed that no rules was the best rule.
Now I'm not the biggest fan of faggots but it would be a disservice to not admit that he did good job talking about and promoting monero in 2016 when literally no one gave a fuck. He organized meet ups and monero clubs in his city to talk about monero. This should serve as a reminder that you should organize meet ups too or at least start red pilling your close friends and family on monero.
The battle against global tyranny is won by men getting together in small tribes and opting out on their own rules. More "monericas" have to appear elsewhere, at local levels. Circular economy is not a meme and if we get to have different circles of economies operating under the same standard it will make it easier to connect these economies without the influence of tyranny, without the influence of legacy power.

>>49512831
Yes, you're a transexual. I'm sorry this has happened to you.

>>49512902
The default state of a node is a "private full node". Just run monerod and sync the chain. You can run it behind Tor if you wanna go full schizo.

[Anonymous No.49513147]

Tapping in

[Anonymous No.49513177]

>>49512643
People said the same thing about Bitcoin.

[Anonymous No.49513189]

>>49512330
I'm using exodus right now, is that recommended at all or no

[Anonymous No.49513218]

>>49512816
Badass Desu

[Anonymous No.49513344]

>>49512816
holy shit

[Anonymous No.49513354]

>>49513052
good luck "redpilling" normies, m8.

[Anonymous No.49513476]

>>49512476
Bros im thinking about putting some money in wownero.. I love moneroo, but I'm still a degen at heart.

[Anonymous No.49513618]

>>49513189
I use it (desktop). works fine for doing swaps.
it is closed source though.
remember to set a password, which is required to get to your 12 word seed.

[Anonymous No.49513650]

>>49512816
Based

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49513661]

I <3 infodump anon
I <3 thread regulars

[Anonymous No.49513705]

redpill me on using remote nodes, is it really that risky?

[Anonymous No.49513706]

>>49513354
Thanks, although I'm not willing to redpill "normies" (whatever the definition) on monero. I will redpill those who are currently showing strong signals of distrust in the government & media, and those who seem to be living without any perspective for the future due to the legacy game being rigged. I will not offer anything more than what these people are already looking for: an alternative.
Many are waiting for a savior, a hero, a mythical man who will wave a wand and make everything good again. Those who already understand that this is only a dream and that the future is shaped by our collective hands will be more prone to hear about monero and understand its sociological implications. These are the people I'm willing to waste my time on.
It's hard to properly articulate these things and how monero is important for the future, but it's imperative for the betterment of the world. I will stumble quite often in my journey but I will pick myself up and try to do better next time.

Or I can be a nihilistic defeatist loser who will stack monero mindlessly until modern society falls into complete chaos and my community and my people are destroyed by hordes of niggers.

[Anonymous No.49513985]

>>49513706
>Or I can be a nihilistic defeatist loser who will stack monero mindlessly until modern society falls into complete chaos and my community and my people are destroyed by hordes of niggers.
Yeah that's my plan
I'm accumulating until the day when the internet fails

[Anonymous No.49514113]

>>49513705

[Anonymous No.49514162]

>>49513618
kek I hate those questions

[Anonymous No.49514172]

mine in p2pool mini

[Anonymous No.49514188]

>>49512476
Anyone got the Monero IQ curve meme?

[Anonymous No.49514201]

>>49514188

[Anonymous No.49514219]

>>49514162
Just generate a second password for them

[Anonymous No.49514230]

>>49514201

[Anonymous No.49514314]

Why is my first btc to XMR exchange on Cake Wallet taking over 5 hours and counting?

[Anonymous No.49514367]

>>49514314
>exchange on Cake Wallet
You're using an exchange called ChangeNow. Enter the "Order ID" that must be appearing somewhere on Cake Wallet on this page [https://changenow.io/status-page] to see in which status the transaction is stuck.

[Anonymous No.49514470]

>>49514188
Another variant

[Anonymous No.49514471]

>>49514314
BTC is a piece of garbage shit trash and orders are probably failing to transact - or took too fucking long to finalize that the 'swap price' agreed on can't be met and will be stuck in limbo until XMR/BTC get back to parity with whatever the swap rate was

What >>49514367 said is probably your best bet - because these sort of services usually just hang unless you go into the service and click something to try pushing it through again - fortunately, the exchange has technically already been done, so this won't impose additional trade fees (probably). It's just going to re-ping their system to see if the swap is within their margins to authorize release of funds.

[Anonymous No.49514552]

>>49514470
Thanks, but I was specifically looking for the other one.

[Anonymous No.49514616]

>>49513052
> The default state of a node is a "private full node". Just run monerod and sync the chain. You can run it behind Tor if you wanna go full schizo.
So I should just run the wallet on my server? Or can I connect with another laptop to my servers wallet program?

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49514699]

>>49513705
It's one big grey area. On the whole, you're probably going to be just fine and there will be no funny business, but you can all but eliminate the possibility of funny business by using your own node (and if you forward p2p ports you strengthen the network)

[Anonymous No.49514786]

>>49513661
Infodump anon is fucking annoying. We don't need like 7 posts at the beginning of every thread.

[Anonymous No.49514851]

>>49514786
>Infodump anon is fucking annoying. We don't need like 7 posts at the beginning of every thread.

[Anonymous No.49514860]

good time to buy monero or do you guys think it will dip any further?

[Anonymous No.49514954]

>>49513706
Quite happy with my Ag/XMR stack. Looking for other shit to nihilistically horde.

Love this poster btw, I want one where the woman is Monerochan and the soldiers are Wehrmacht and SS.

[Anonymous No.49514996]

>>49513661
he really do be the backbone of /XMR/ doe...

[Anonymous No.49515005]

>>49514616
If you want to run the node on a different device and network than your wallet, then you will need to open port 18081 on your router.
You will run the monero daemon with these flags:
--restricted-rpc --rpc-bind-ip <your_node_device_ip> --confirm-external-bind

--restricted-rpc : restricts API to view-only commands and do not return privacy sensitive data
--confirm-external-bind : confirm you consciously set --rpc-bind-ip to non-localhost IP and you understand the consequences
monerod reference documentation: https://monerodocs.org/interacting/monerod-reference/

If your wallet device is in the same network as the node device, then simply use your local IP address to connect to it. if you're outside (i.e. using your phone elsewhere) I think you can use a free dynamic DNS service like noip.com and connect to it.

[Anonymous No.49515050]

>>49514786
while they may be annoying for the first microseconds of scrolling past them, they are useful for newbies coming onto Monero for the first time, you were a noob at one point too, you know.

[Anonymous No.49515096]

>>49514860
just dca, m8.

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49515308]

Okay this might be a dumb question but I'm curious.

HOW are bitcoin wallets blacklisted? Are they just constantly monitored and then folks are dispatched to pick up whatever identity they're later linked to when funds move? Is there a massive cohort of nodes that will simply refuse to broadcast txs from wallets listed in a database of some kind, or do the organizations who control wallets simply agree to not accept transactions from them? if so, how is this actually accomplished? I realize "security through obscurity" may be a factor here, any info is helpful.

[Anonymous No.49515486]

I'm slurping from kyc and you can't stop me

[Anonymous No.49515495]

>>49515308
>HOW are bitcoin wallets blacklisted?
1,461,501,637,330,902,918,203,684,832,716,283,019,655,932,542,976

[Anonymous No.49515530]

Monerochans, give a visit if you are interested: >>>/pol/381771466

Global Hyperinflation General /GHG/ #53

[Anonymous No.49515543]

>>49515050

Exactly. I'm highly suspicious of anybody trying to supress access to information.

We're in a propaganda war and must consistently counter the incessant FUD with clearly presented and easily digestable facts.

So keep up the good work, Goebbels-anon.

[Anonymous No.49515584]

Can anyone explain to a normie noob non tech person what the “connections” and “peers” are all about in monerod? As I said in last thread. I just downloaded a whole node within last month. Haven’t been buying or selling or doing any my own transactions since cuz I got no more money to buy moner with right now. But for my next transaction I don’t wanna use remote. My monerod kept telling me to open port 18080 so I did that. Never opened a port before dunno even what that is. But then I started seeing IN connections whenever I typed “status”. Are these other peepo using my node? I got in trubba because my family couldn’t watch tv. So the whole time I’ve been “running a node” it took almost zero noticeable bandwidth. Now it’s chugging bandwidth. How was I downloading node with port closed? What are this “IN” connections. I had plenty of OUT before opening port. Can I limit how many people can use my node? It’s too much, but if I do this, like if I close connections will it mean I shut myself out of my own node?

[Anonymous No.49515613]

>>49514786
>We don't need like 7 posts at the beginning of every thread.
yes we do
it helps a lot

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49515675]

>>49515495
neat

[Anonymous No.49515681]

>>49515584
first look at picrel >>49515005

[Anonymous No.49515881]

>>49515308
Much to the bitcoiners dismay, there are several ways to censor bitcoin. Virtually all censorship relies on third-party software that identifies either an address or a UTXO as "bad". This identification happens by comparing every address and UTXO directly against a centralised database controlled by the institutions responsible for banning/unbanning (usually governments). Miners can therefore choose not to add transactions coming from these addresses by constantly querying the database.
The second way of censoring does not rely exclusively on a specific address or UTXO, but with the help of other data. This is done by blockchain analytics software that aggregate information from several different sources to assign a "score" to the address/UTXO in question, if this score is too low or negative, it receives a warning flag. This warning is *only* relevant when the address/UTXO passes through a service that queries this score. Exchanges do this, and if the score is too low your bitcoin is confiscated and you are questioned to justify the its origins. Payment processors such as BitPay can also use this service to refuse addresses/UTXOs. You can expect that everything that is "regulated" will do this, because not doing so will be outlawed.

In peer-to-peer fashion, the only possibility to censor a transaction would be if all miners decide to never include it in any block, which is unlikely. But even if you can send your bitcoin elsewhere, if all the infrastructure built around it uses blockchain analytics services, then your bitcoin will be either confiscated, refused, or have lower value because of its bad score.

Every UTXO and address have a score. This is already the case. Some block explorers like Blockchair even gives your a "privacy score" for each transaction.

[Anonymous No.49515891]

>>49515308
>HOW are bitcoin wallets blacklisted?

I’m a newb about all this shit I’m glad I was at least a little smart and avoided exchanges though(they didn’t seem cryptic to me they just seemed like a regular bank so I avoided them). But I’ll try to explain what I know so far. Bitcoin is a public ledger. It works great for peer 2 peer transactions and stuff because it was of course what Ross ulbrichts Silk Road used for pretty much everything. It’s pure proof of work meaning it’s truly decentralized. But there’s a MAJOR flaw in the system, forgive good ol satoshi though, it was a new thing. Bitcoin doesn’t have full fungibility. It is a wide open ledger. Anyone can see all the transactions, were the coins are going, which wallets are the most full. You can sell me something then tomorrow I can tell you I know your balance and so if you wanna do business with me your at a disadvantage cuz I know what you got. The alphabet agencies thus monitor the shit out of bitcoin because it’s so god damn easy. And if you dealt me some drugs at some point and then I got busted by the glowniggers then they tracked my bitcoin to your wallet you’d get in trouble and if you bought a car from 100% innocent person that innocent guy would get his bitcoin frozen if he deposited into an exchange. And that guy who bought the car will have to prove his innocence to the exchange/feds before he can get his dirty coin back. If he can get it back at all.

[Anonymous No.49516416]

>>49515584
>Can I limit how many people can use my node? It’s too much, but if I do this, like if I close connections will it mean I shut myself out of my own node?
If you opened 18080 it means people are syncing their blockchain by downloading data from your blockchain. It doesn't mean people are sending transactions via your node. That would be another port and you would need to run the daemon with extra flags.
You can limit bandwidth usage running the daemon with:
--limit-rate-up <number_in_kB/s>
--limit-rate-down <number_in_kB/s>
You can limit IN/OUT connections with:
--in-peers <number>
--out-peers <number>

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49516614]

>>49515881
thank you, fren!

[Anonymous No.49516727]

anons, i bought at 240 last year
do i sell now and wait or do i hold?

[Anonymous No.49516767]

>>49515681
I guess it’s making sense. Just don’t open 18080? But I can still use it if closes right? If I close it again it’s gonna keep giving me that annoying message to open it though…
Is there anything beneficial to me to going full green and runni mg fully public full node? Probably not. Just something you do out of goodness of your heart because you believe in the principles of people controlling their own money and not the banks. Which I am one of those people. I just really don’t have the bandwidth to donate at this time. Sorry guys. ;(

[Anonymous No.49516817]

>>49515486
Same, I want to make them dry.

[Anonymous No.49516862]

>>49515881
Wait a minute what the fuck??? Miners on a “decentralized” cryptocurrency practice censorship without the whole blockchain itself? This makes zero sense and sounds like the traditional globohomo banking system to me.

[Anonymous No.49517079]

>>49516862
Marathon Miners Have Started Censoring Bitcoin Transactions; Here's What That Means
https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/05/07/marathon-miners-have-started-censoring-bitcoin-transactions-heres-what-that-means/

>The Marathon OFAC pool, which was first announced in late March, “refrains from processing transactions from those listed on the U.S. Department of Treasury’s Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons List (SDN)” to stay “compliant with U.S. regulatory standards,” according to the company.
Some time later Fred Thiel became CEO of Marathon and stated they're not enforcing this anymore, allegedly. But it tells you exactly what to expect in the future.

[Anonymous No.49517298]

>>49512701
You're retarded. Miners get fees. Fees have averaged generously 1.5-2% of the block reward. This means that fees will need to either get ~50x higher to maintain the current level of security, or security will drop 98%, or a combination of the two. I agree with your main point but your math is fucked. I don't believe the current hashrate is enough to properly secure $1.5m bitcoin.

[Anonymous No.49517533]

>>49517298
I agree that post is pretty retarded. The rest of the info dumps are cool but that one is so speculative it’s not very useful. It doesn’t even mention the fee market that btc obviously needs to support The miners.
tldr bitcoin is still shit but so is that post

[Anonymous No.49517578]

>>49517079
So…. Bitcoin has basically become a CBDC. Good thing I never picked up shitcoin. Even back when it mooned. It’s a pile of shit now. But people are always going to keep its price around 30k because they are fucking sheep.

[Anonymous No.49517606]

>>49517533
Is that an info dump now?

[Anonymous No.49517609]

How quick are transactions now days?

[Anonymous No.49517644]

>>49512701
Jesus did you people even try to learn how blockchain works? Blockchain doesn't need miners. if mining is unprofitable, miners will leave and guess what - fuck them, because others willmjust split their rewards.
This is such a nothing burger it is not worth mentioning.

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49517679]

>>49517609
full fat on-chain I've had txs get stuck in mempool for days, but typically 30-90 mins if you pay an average fee

[Anonymous No.49517691]

>>49517578
I doubt the price of bitcoin will be stable at 30k long term. Likely it'll either become more widely adopted and appreciate in value, or become obsolete and slowly bleed out.

I dont think regulatory issues will ever really cripple a cryptocoin, because people just comply and the government gets what it wants.

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49517695]

>>49517679
durr durr durr I assumed this was in response to the BTC posts I was reading. Monero transactions take like 1-20 mins depending on fee structure.

[Anonymous No.49517784]

>>49517644
You mean… we can have fully functioning cryptocurrency without consuming terawatts of electricity from coal burning power plants?

[Anonymous No.49517944]

>>49517691
>I dont think regulatory issues will ever really cripple a cryptocoin, because people just comply and the government gets what it wants.

If anything it’ll raise its value because normies and moon faggots love it. They live “muh environmentalism” and they hate “darknet markets, money launderers, and drug dealers, taliban, and omg illegal firearms dealers!!” So any crypto that bans all the boogeymen that the government invents out of thin air makes normies and soi boys leap and jump for joy and buy like crazy hoping for another moon. Monero will never moon like bitcoin did. Which is a good thing because I just want anonymous digital cash not controlled by a government. I can already chase moons in the fucking stock market.

[Anonymous No.49517997]

>>49517944
Forgot pic related which clearly depicts what happened with “crypto” currency.

[Anonymous No.49518027]

>>49514786
they helped me a lot when i first started to really learn about xmr

[Anonymous No.49518134]

>>49517944
>If anything it’ll raise its value because normies and moon faggots love it.

The general normie sentiment about crypto is increasingly negative, more and more of them think its a scam.

>Monero will never moon like bitcoin did.

Alas, I fear once the "buy stock in transnational organized crime" narrative is sufficiently primed by growing criminal adoption the speculators and moonfags will ape in en masse, trigger the long-awaited privacy bubble and send this shit to Mars. :(

[Anonymous No.49518135]

>>49517606
The past few threads I’ve seen it attached to the first few posts so I believe it’s being copy pasted like it’s 100% accurate. Bitcoins mining situation is probably untenable but it makes us looks stupid if we’re resorting to hyperbole to explain why it’s bad.

[Anonymous No.49518138]

>>49515881
could this issue be worked around by using a atomic swap into XMR, or would using bad BTC making the atomic swap difficult.

[Anonymous No.49518187]

>>49518138
come to think of it, i have no clue how atomic swaps work. i need to look into that.

[Anonymous No.49518336]

>>49517609
they can be seconds when the tx hits the mempool, and the seller sees it. once the tx is sent, there is no changing it. no need to wait for the next block to be mined due to the fee structure. the tx will get mined.

[Anonymous No.49518378]

>>49518138
>could this issue be worked around by using a atomic swap into XMR
If the issue is you trying to get rid of tainted bitcoin, yes, you can circumvent it by atomic swapping for monero. But the people doing the swap usually understand they can get dirty bitcoin so you can expect to pay a hefty premium for the monero.
But the issue is not you trying to get rid of tainted bitcoin. The real issue is that tainted bitcoin exist, and that checking its "score" will most likely be the standard when dealing with legacy institutions.

[Anonymous No.49518401]

hello frens keep up the good work is this a good time to buy xmr?

[Anonymous No.49518541]

>>49514851
no I am an oldfag in these generals.
This same anon kept increasing his posts in the past, and at one point there was literally 15 posts at the start of every thread. It's fucking annoying. A couple is fine but he is starting to overdo it again.

[Anonymous No.49518612]

>>49518401
well, it is cheaper than before, still might get cheaper. the DIX keeps getting stronger, thus our collective crypto loss, despite inflation. fucking fed.

[Anonymous No.49518883]

>>49513661
>I <3 thread regulars
this general always has the same IP's posting
maybe a couple outsiders will join and ask some questions, but the core of /xmr/ posteage is composed of the same people every single thread every single day every single week every single month every single year

[Anonymous No.49519440]

is there a movie sort of related to monero?

[Anonymous No.49519552]

>>49519440
The Greatest Story Never Told.

[Anonymous No.49519590]

>>49519552
thanks
already saw it

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49520052]

>>49519552
Great, I looked it up on clearnet and now I'm on a watchlist. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.49520061]

>>49519440
https://moneromeans.money/

[Anonymous No.49520114]

>>49512476
I like pirate chain better

[Hodlin Caulfield No.49520187]

>>49520114

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49520983]

[Anonymous No.49522084]

>>49520052
Everyone ITT is already on a watchlist.

[Anonymous No.49522178]

>>49519440
Princes of Yen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5Ac7ap_MAY

[Anonymous No.49523392]

[Anonymous No.49523652]

>>49522084
good point

[Legalize rape No.49523670]

>>49522178
LEGALIZE RAPE

[Anonymous No.49524028]

>>49522178
watched it. fucking wef, they need to be stopped.
reaffirms my love for monerochan.

[Anonymous No.49524099]

>>49522084
>already on a watchlist.
plebs. I play poker on saturdays with my handler, in minecraft.

[Anonymous No.49524121]

when we finna get rich niggas

[Anonymous No.49524331]

>>49523670
It's only illegal if you get caught.

[Anonymous No.49524406]

>>49524121
>when we finna get rich niggas

[Anonymous No.49524765]

>>49524406
>get rich
>instantly buy sports car
Why do so many people do this?

[Anonymous No.49525532]

Is there a-...*ahem* monero chan honey select card? Or VAM model?

[Anonymous No.49525877]

>>49524406
it just needs to beat inflation and be tragically lost in boating accidents

this is not about the moon mission, thank you anon

[Anonymous No.49525911]

>>49524765
low iq

[Anonymous No.49526738]

[Anonymous No.49528191]

>>49524765

Vanity is a helluva drug.

[Anonymous No.49528570]

>>49524121
>when we finna get rich niggas
soon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRxalfwCS5E

[Anonymous No.49529110]

>>49525532
what do you want one of those for?

[Anonymous No.49529692]

>>49524406
>>49525877
I mean, I do think there is an actual likely hood we could do quite well one day, its all about supply demand, if demand goes up then the price will likely go up.

that being said, I like how /xmr/ doesn't like to talk about moon missions, its a nice breath of fresh air from the usual crypto mentality.

[Anonymous No.49530289]

>>49515881
>Some block explorers like Blockchair even gives your a "privacy score" for each transaction.
Yoru post is great but this is completely irrelevant, that score is just based on what your transaction looks like. E.g. if you reuse an address, they'll flag it saying "careful!". If you send a very round amount, they'll flag it saying "this makes it obvious which output is the payment and which output is the change, careful!". Etc.

[Anonymous No.49530326]

>>49516862
>Miners on a “decentralized” cryptocurrency practice censorship without the whole blockchain itself?
A miner can include whatever transaction it wants in a block, this is normal. A miner could decide to "censor" everyone and only include their own transactions, simple as that.
The issue is of course that the public ledger gives miners enough information to be able to attempt to censor actual people/entities by tracking the movement of UTXOs. (This gets even funnier on smart contract chains like Ethereum, where you have complex shit like arbitrage among tokens in smart contracts and if you find a profitable trade, a miner can just copy your transaction for themselves, include their own and exclude yours, just grabbing your profit.)

[Anonymous No.49530457]

good morning xmr
https://looptube.io/?videoId=fVeI5xcnsd8

[Anonymous No.49530528]

>>49517298
>>49517533
"Muh fee market" is definitely the intended solution and Satoshi's vision and all that, but in practice it's not workable. That article calculates the current electricity cost of a single transaction at around $80, conservatively. And if the network continues to rise in value, and you want to maintain proportional security by increasing the mining power, then the cost per single transaction will increase proportionally.

The issue is that nobody wants to pay $80 per transaction. There is no actual fee market. The last time the network was severely congested for an extended period of time - around the BCH split, and the mooning back in 2017 - people rapidly expanded use of altcoins, and "layer 2 scaling" immediately became the hottest new meme. The fee market back in 2017 should have been a feature, a fantastic breakthrough of Bitcoin becoming close to economically viable, and yet it is widely considered by everyone to be a huge problem and one of the main issues "plaguing" Bitcoin. Everyone wants to "solve scalability" and make transactions cheaper, generally by decongesting the chain as much as possible by moving off-chain, using alt-coins or even moving off-chain into alt-coins such as using various wrapped bitcoin assets.

The only people who would be willing to pay $80 or $160 or $300 fees per transaction would be huge traders moving five or six digit dollar amounts per transaction. Bitcoin would become an inaccessible large-value transaction ledger, not a peer-to-peer ledger for the common man. While not fundamentally impossible, this would require a huge shift in the usecase of Bitcoin - not least of which being the requirement for such large traders to be active enough to actually fill up the ledger with their transactions. I just don't see it happening.

[Anonymous No.49530625]

>>49517644
>>49517784
The fewer miners you have, the cheaper it is for someone to spin up their own miners and take unilateral control of your chain. This is basic stuff niggers.
I can fork Bitcoin and call it Bitsneed and mine it on my laptop and I'll be consuming like 40-50W of electricity. It'll work perfectly fine until someone decides to mine it on a slightly better laptop, or on two laptops, or on a desktop, or just grab the free credit tier on AWS, and dwarfs my mining power and double-spends all the coins to himself.
Now imagine if Bitsneed was trading for $30k because people are retards or something, and you could double-spend millions of them using the free tier on AWS and make billions of cash for free.

This is reductio ad absurdum, but the smaller the mining power, then a) the more likely it is to be profitable to execute such an attack, and b) the less capital and upfront investment (e.g. into hardware, etc.) is necessary to do so.

[Anonymous No.49530709]

>>49530528
>Bitcoin would become an inaccessible large-value transaction ledger, not a peer-to-peer ledger for the common man. While not fundamentally impossible, this would require a huge shift in the usecase of Bitcoin - not least of which being the requirement for such large traders to be active enough to actually fill up the ledger with their transactions. I just don't see it happening.
Isn't this already the case?
Who is buying btc? Banks, "investors" and other degens spending millions.
Who is using btc as peer to peer cash?
Almost nobody. Everyone just buys and holds on exchange hoping numbers go up.
Eventually they sell it on the same exchange and therefore they have no idea that something like a tainted btc exists and that fees are so ridiculously high.

[Anonymous No.49530800]

>>49530709
Bitcoin is still the default cryptocurrency for normies to ape into.
I don't know, maybe you're right, and maybe the $200 fee market is on the way to becoming sustainable.

But the other thing is that it doesn't just have to be theoretically sustainable, it has to actually happen. Those banks, "investors" and degens needs to actually compete for block space and pay those fees. If blocks are empty enough that you can get in next block on a $2 fee, then they're not gonna crank it up just out of the goodness of their hearts.
And right now there's nowhere near enough transactions to drive fees up. Even during congestion spikes, you can get in comfortably on like 15-20 sats/vbyte, and pretty much guarantee priority inclusion in the next block with maybe 30 sats.

[Anonymous No.49531352]

>>49530528
The article argues that the users pay for the btc system in two ways, because the miners have to sell their mining rewards and the fees they collect to cover their energy costs. If the mining rewards become so low that the miners can’t cover their energy costs anymore and not enough users are willing to transact when the transactions fees get higher, the security of the system suffers.

But do the tail emissions of monero really help in that regard? In the end, monero (just like btc as outlined in the article) would have to constantly rise in price to incentivize enough mining, thus leading to higher energy costs for mining, thus puttting constant downward pressure on the price because miners have to sell their mining rewards to cover energy costs. What am I missing?

[Anonymous No.49531645]

>>49531352
The article is about PoW generally, the guy is a PoSfag. The "downwards pressure on the price" is called inflation. Gold production inflates the supply of gold at around 1.5% a year just going by super rough wikipedia estimates (180000 tons mined, 2800 ton/year production). This is nothing new.
The cost of mining is what secures the network. The more expensive mining is, the harder it is for a malicious party to hijack it. The total cost of the network is directly dictated by the profitability of mining (assuming an efficient market). In other words, the rate of inflation pays for the security of the network, alongside transaction fees.

So for Bitcoin that presents a bit problem, because its rewards will keep dropping, and eventually go to zero. And transaction fees are NOT currently keeping up, and are not set to replace mining rewards. Inflation of 0% sounds enticing, except for the fact mentioned above that inflation pays for network security, and with inflation at 0% the security is ENTIRELY paid by the pitiful amount that fees bring in.

Monero's tail emissions ensure that inflation drops off very very slowly over time. The network is currently very reasonably secure with the tail emission reward, and this reward will now remain constant indefinitely. Due to the increasing supply, this will cause the actual value of 0.6 XMR to drop, but it will do so asymptotically over many many years. In theory, eventually, this may still harm the security of the network. However unlike Bitcoin it will never actually go to zero, and by then we may well have a better solution for paying for security.

[Anonymous No.49531730]

>>49530289
I disagree that it's irrelevant, my example demonstrates how bitcoin's public and transparent data accessible to all allows private entities to independently create their own "score" for it. Would you be able to do the same thing on monero? Pro-tip: you wouldn't.

[Anonymous No.49531835]

>price simply won't go down even after big btc dumps
it's ogre...

[Anonymous No.49531901]

>>49531645
But how did the devs arrive at the 0.6 xmr reward? There is no guarantee that 0.6 xmr incentivizes enough miners when 0.6 xmr will be such a tiny amount in proportion to the whole system in the future. The one thing that it solves is that every user continues to pay the miners for securing the network and not just the users who fill a block.

[Anonymous No.49531940]

>>49531352
>constant downward pressure on the price
Now when I was talking about inflation I mentioned it in a pretty abstract manner: the value of 1 bitcoin or 1 monero becomes very slightly lower after every block, relative to its value in the previous block.

In terms of dollar amounts, I don't think it's particularly relevant because you have to consider cost to attack vs. revenue from an attack. If coin A has a market cap of $1000 and coin B has a market cap of $1 trillion, and coin B is 1,000,000 times more expensive to attack than coin A, then they are equally secure against rational actors. Coin A is insecure against irrational actors who might drop a few bucks on it for the lulz, but both Bitcoin and Monero are far out of reach of that. It may still be worth thinking about irrational actors with huge funding, such as malicious governments, but then we get into things like cost to assemble the hardware for an attack and that's a whole topic in itself.

Rather my point is that if a certain % of inflation is enough to secure the network, then the dollar value of the coin doesn't matter. The issue with Bitcoin is that it's driving the % inflation into the ground. As the article says, you need Bitcoins to be worth quintillions to maintain the same hashing power as they are right now, when the reward will be like 0.000003 BTC or whatever. The issue is that when the network is worth that much, if you have the same cost of attack as now, then someone will just buy enough miners to double-spend a ton of coins and make an insane profit.

So, this much about security or insecurity due to inflation. What's my opinion on the actual impact of the inflation? Complete non-issue. If you can inflate by ~1% per year to maintain security, you're doing better than gold, and WAY better than the vast majority of relevant fiat currencies in the world. Whether the dollar value of your crypto rises or falls is going to be dominated by market conditions, not your inflation rate.

[Anonymous No.49531950]

>>49531730
> Would you be able to do the same thing on monero?
You technically could, but it requires all private view and transaction keys to be able to discern lol
It's complicated, there needs to be a sufficient incentive in order to do so. I just don't see it happening.

[Anonymous No.49532006]

>>49531352
A couple more things worth mentioning is that article's general stance on PoS. It argues that it's more friendly to "small fish" due to allowing staking delegation and not requiring technical knowledge to set up a miner, but the issue is not small fish friendliness, but rather big fish friendliness. PoS is extremely well suited for a small number of big whales to just buy up a controlling portion of the stake. Some networks add "limits" on staking - I think ETH 2.0 limits it to like 32ETH - but there's absolutely nothing stopping sybil identities.

PoW CAN become extremely centralised, but it can also be remedied. Bitcoin has one of the worst PoW setups, and the article focuses on that. Monero fixes a ton of problems with Bitcoin - the biggest one being of course the requirement for ultra-specialised hardware to be competitive. Making mining viable for normal people on their normal computer was a big goal for Monero for this very reason, and so far they've more or less achieved it.
Another problem is centralisation through mining pools, and again Monero has a successful p2pool implementation that eliminates this issue. All that's needed is wider adoption now.

[Anonymous No.49532068]

>>49531730
Well all you're basically saying is "guys Bitcoin has a public ledger lololo". Which, like, yes, no shit bro.
>Would you be able to do the same thing on monero?
Technically, yes, kind of. IIRC there are potential weakenings in the anonymisation if you do retarded shit, like receiving from an exchange and immediately re-sending back to it from your wallet, especially if you're moving the same amount around. These transactions could then be flagged as having reduced privacy - while all other transactions that don't suffer from such issues would be scored as "a-ok".
This would be basically the exact same thing as blockstream's privacy score for bitcoin transactions.

[Anonymous No.49532120]

>>49531901
>when 0.6 xmr will be such a tiny amount in proportion to the whole system in the future.
Inflation per year is the key metric. If inflation is at e.g. 1%, that means that every year miners get approximately 1% worth of the total network market cap as rewards, and therefore can spend an amount close to this (but slightly lower) on mining costs while remaining profitable. Thus, that dictates your network security.

Long term the % inflation will drop, yes, but that will take many many years. I do mention this in my post.

[Anonymous No.49532596]

DOOOMPA

[Anonymous No.49532771]

>>49532068
>Well all you're basically saying is "guys Bitcoin has a public ledger lololo". Which, like, yes, no shit bro.
What a moronic comment. Imagine being unable to understand that transforming bitcoin's transparency to real metrics is a big deal, that the first examples are starting to appear publicly and it should alert people everywhere of what is to come.
But I guess it's better to say it's irrelevant and take a "hehe I told you this would happen bro" attitude.
Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.49532993]

>>49532068
>Technically, yes, kind of. IIRC there are potential weakenings in the anonymisation if you do retarded shit, like receiving from an exchange and immediately re-sending back to it from your wallet, especially if you're moving the same amount around. These transactions could then be flagged as having reduced privacy - while all other transactions that don't suffer from such issues would be scored as "a-ok".
>This would be basically the exact same thing as blockstream's privacy score for bitcoin transactions.
Literally unfeasible. You can't monitor outputs across the chain successfully on monero. All that it takes would be to send the outputs again at a later date to some other wallet (or even the same wallet).
You can't keep tracking outputs in the monero blockchain, capisce?

[Anonymous No.49532996]

>>49532771
>Imagine being unable to understand that transforming bitcoin's transparency to real metrics is a big deal,
Yes it fucking is but my point is that the specific example of blockstream's privacy score is NOT that. They're not analysing the blockchain, they're just looking at whether the transaction's structure follows some simple rules.
As I mentioned, you could indeed build the exact same thing for Monero, even though you can NOT build an actual blockchain metric analyser for Monero.

[Anonymous No.49533029]

>>49532993
Did you even read my post?
>All that it takes would be to send the outputs again at a later date to some other wallet (or even the same wallet)
Yes, all that it takes is to not make a retarded transaction. Then it won't be a retarded transaction anymore.
But if you don't do that then it's retarded and it can be flagged as retarded.

[Anonymous No.49533470]

>>49533029
The problem is the inability to see the "big picture", as Americans like to say. Your argument is that it's possible to look at a transaction in monero, and if it had a specific characteristic of being withdrawn from an exchange and redeposited after 10 blocks, an observer working with the exchange could assign a "privacy score" to that specific transaction. And consequently, that is the same thing that Blockchair is doing.
It seems clear to me that you either can't understand the implications this has on bitcoin, that is unaffected on monero, or you're playing dumb for some reason.
Flagging transactions in bitcoin allows the outputs and addresses belonging in such a transaction to be tracked ad infinitum and that score might or might not have an impact. The same is not applicable in monero (even in the proposed scenario), and so the implications for user privacy are vastly different. So private institutions creating their own scores is something bad for the users in the long run and they should be aware of it, and no, you can't do the same on monero, it would clearly not be "basically the exact same thing", lol.

[Anonymous No.49534261]

[Anonymous No.49534481]

>>49533470
>And consequently, that is the same thing that Blockchair is doing.
>It seems clear to me that you either can't understand the implications this has on bitcoin,
Ohhh, wait, I'm retarded. I mixed up Blockchair and Blockstream.
Blockstream's "privacy score" is a nothingburger and matches what I claimed to be possible on Monero too. Blockchair's score is completely different and much more involved, and yes it's definitely not possible on Monero, and you are 100% correct about it.

My bad.

[Anonymous No.49534644]

>>49517944
>Monero will never moon like bitcoin did. Which is a good thing
Somebody gets it; a good product has sustained, organic growth without weird spikes and dips that aren't clearly caused by the broader market. Likewise, the world is big and complicated; any product promising to take over all use cases is either a scam or going to shoot itself in the foot.

>>49518134
>The general normie sentiment about crypto is increasingly negative
Good. Crypto has sucked since Ethereum got big at the latest and it's a shame that Monero is forced to share technology with it because blockchains themselves are bad; we just don't have any other option for what we want to do.

>the speculators and moonfags will ape in en masse
Ironically, friction will be your friend here; your average speculative idiot is not going to buy an asset they have to obtain with unmarked bills lmao.

[Anonymous No.49534692]

>>49522178
A must-watch for any Japanese nationalist, as well.

[Anonymous No.49534836]

>>49517944
>Monero will never moon like bitcoin did.
Lol keep dreaming.
The fundamentals of Monero go a long way. We are in the clout building stage right now. Continued organic dark net growth is now seeping into other markets. More and more normies are learning about and using Monero. It's only a matter of time before institutional money comes pouring in.
Additionally, due to what has likely been price suppression, the future bull run for Monero will be meteoric. I would not be surprised to see 5 digits within the next several years.

[Anonymous No.49534935]

>>49534836
The more CEXes paper trading XMR that get shut down, the higher the price goes. If you don't mind the KYC hit, buying on CEXes and withdrawing only accelerates the upward pressure.

[Anonymous No.49534943]

>>49517997
>“crypto” currency
The Crypto™ industry is ruining almost as many tech/cultural terms as Apps™ did.

The "metaverse" used to be an academic term for emergent virtual spaces, now it's scam token garbage.
"Decentralization" used to refer to people running their own software to prevent power abuse, now it's scam token garbage.
"WAGMI" used to be a neutral phrase of Internet camaraderie, now it's scam token garbage.
"Tokenization" used to refer to the study of how discrete actions are represented across computer networks, now it's scam token garbage.
"Airdrop" used to be a feature on iOS and macOS, now it's scam token garbage.

And, of course, "crypto" itself used to refer to using cryptography to keep your data safe and your communications secure, and now it's scam token garbage! A bunch of centrally hosted poker chip mills funded by fucking Andressen Horowitz.

It's as if they WANT to artificially narrow the range of technological thought.

[Anonymous No.49534952]

>>49534644
>your average speculative idiot is not going to buy an asset they have to obtain with unmarked bills lmao.

DEXifcation = buying zero-KYC Monero will eventually become as easy as torrenting porn.

[Anonymous No.49534960]

>>49534836
Doesn't "mooning" imply massive sudden upticks in price, though? You're just describing the rise in price that comes from mass adoption. Or is that what "mooning" is?

[Anonymous No.49535051]

>>49534960
Monero's growth right now is entirely organic. You look at the tx totals or if you do research into dark net markets, and all the signs are there that this is not a meme. It is literally random noobs who don't care about cryptocurrency that use Monero because they NEED to. This has been happening the past two years and by this point the dark net markets are majority Monero. Within the next few years it will be entirely Monero.
So with this increase in adoption we will fare much better than other cryptos during this bear market, and as things continue to incrementally improve you will so "defectors" from bitocin/bcash/litecoin who recognize Monero's resiliency to the bear market and also it's growing adoption.
Eventually, you will have influencers who will support Monero (Someone like a Saylor or a Musk or major hedge funds) and after that all bets are off, as we have extremely low inflation and a bunch of mature holders who have studied these crypto markets and understand how undervalued Monero is.

[Anonymous No.49535144]

>>49535051
Oh, I'm aware of all that, but I still don't think Monero is going to eat up the entire payments world. Maybe (close to) the entire crypto world, sure, that I see happening, but I still think fiat will be the standard for payments people don't want tracked.

[Anonymous No.49535191]

>>49535144
>fiat
>don't want tracked
Have you been asleep since September 10, 2001?

[Anonymous No.49535207]

>>49512476
DOOMPA

[Anonymous No.49535218]

>>49535144
crypto is still a good 20 years away from being the standard for payments. I think CBDCs need to come around first but it is inevitable that Monero will survive in the long term.
Society will be cashless in the future. It is the sad reality. They want more control.

[Anonymous No.49535221]

>>49534644
>any product promising to take over all use cases is either a scam or going to shoot itself in the foot.
To be fair traditional cash covered more or less all usecases for quite a long time

[Anonymous No.49535290]

>>49534836
>It's only a matter of time before institutional money comes pouring in.

Its unlikely that mainstream institutional capital will be flowing into privacy coins considering its probable that at some point in the future the gloves will come off, governments absolutely do not want Wall St playing with this tech.

But it don't matter, transnational organized crime fills that role quite nicely: a multi-trillion dollar industry that doesn't play by the rules and is highly incentivized to seek out anonymized modes of money transmission.

[Anonymous No.49535480]

>>49535290
>Its unlikely that mainstream institutional capital will be flowing into privacy coins c
Monero is not a privacy coin. Stop saying that.
Monero is a cryptocurrency. It happens to have privacy features, true, but calling it a "privacy coin" is implying that Monero should be labeled as something different. This is a jewish media trick.
And also they said the exact same thing about Bitcoin in the early days. This of course was long before the KYC/AML regulations that are heavily enforced, but in the early days Bitcoin was looked at as a drug coin. In fact, people still view Bitcoin in that way.
The reality is that there is nothing that really separates Monero from Bitcoin when it comes down to compliance. The smart money is aware of this and stacking while it is still undervalued.
But whatever, it doesn't matter anyways, as Monero will continue to grow because its fundamentals are simply too strong.

[Anonymous No.49535681]

>>49535480
>Monero is not a privacy coin. Stop saying that.
Monero is a cryptocurrency. It happens to have privacy features, true, but calling it a "privacy coin" is implying that Monero should be labeled as something different. This is a jewish media trick.

Good eye. Subtle things like this is how they overthrow systems they don't like

[Anonymous No.49536034]

Don't disclose your personal stacks of course but let's say in a more than ideal world what's a comfy amount of XMR for an anon to hold or even % of his/her total investment folio?

I know some of you (secretly more of you that like to admit) are holding this coin in hopes of some decent price appreciation over the next decade, but for those of you prepping for SHTF type scenario, what real world utility do you think monero will have in a CBDC future? Is it likely that monero will become a stand alone medium of exchange even though it has the steepest learning curve of all crypto? Will monero ever transcend the darkweb/edgy cyberpunk stigma and appeal to the normie market to force more adoption?

Lend me your thoughts monerochads

[Anonymous No.49536069]

>>49535290
>transnational organized crime fills that role quite nicely: a multi-trillion dollar industry that doesn't play by the rules and is highly incentivized to seek out anonymized modes of money transmission
Well put

[Anonymous No.49536094]

>>49512563
Who t f are u?

[Anonymous No.49536206]

>>49536034
>Don't disclose your personal stacks of course but let's say in a more than ideal world what's a comfy amount of XMR for an anon to hold or even % of his/her total investment folio?
I would say that it is different for everyone. Comfyness is holding any amount of Monero. But the general rule is that anything over 100 XMR is "making it".
> what real world utility do you think monero will have in a CBDC future?
Monero wouldn't be inflated by quantitative easing. It would have demand because of its low fees, its privacy, and the fact that it isn't pozzed by the federal reserve.
>s it likely that monero will become a stand alone medium of exchange even though it has the steepest learning curve of all crypto
What learning curve? Monero is great because all you have to do is download a wallet and use it. Sure there are more advanced concepts but Monero is simply a cryptocurrency with advanced features built in.
>Will monero ever transcend the darkweb/edgy cyberpunk stigma and appeal to the normie market to force more adoption?
100%. We are already seeing this with transaction data from Coincards and Cakewallet, which show that Monero has tremendous demand relative to where it is currently priced. Long term we will see a continued rise in transaction amounts compared to Bitcoin because of Bitcoin's high fees and nonexistent privacy guarantees.

[Anonymous No.49536287]

>>49536034
If you think there will ever be 19 million users of Monero, all you need is 1 XMR to be in the top half of owners.

[Anonymous No.49536385]

>>49536094
just a guy on the internet

[Anonymous No.49536444]

>>49535480
>Monero should be labeled as something different. This is a jewish media trick.
Never though about it like that.
They got me.

[Anonymous No.49536503]

>>49535218
Crypto is never going to be the standard for payments because its one use case that justifies its absurd inefficiencies is privacy, which no one who makes decisions actually wants.

The only use for a cryptocurrency is still the only one Bitcoin debuted with: PayPal for illegal activities. Beyond that use, crypto is completely useless.

[Anonymous No.49536516]

>>49535221
Yes, but cash isn't a product, it's a technology, a standard. Monero, by contrast, is a tech product, a very good one, to be sure, and one that will probably assume a monopoly in its niche the way the Web did, but a product nonetheless.

[Anonymous No.49536518]

What's the current status of Tari?
Ded?

[Anonymous No.49536535]

>>49535480
>Monero is a cryptocurrency.
I'll do you one better, Monero is not even a cryptocurrency, it's a payment system that uses cryptocurrency technology and will remain that until the term "cryptocurrency" goes back to having the meaning it had in 2011.

[Anonymous No.49536574]

>>49536503
How can you seriously write that at the time of record inflation and a trend of trying to ban everything slightly controversial?

[Anonymous No.49536646]

>>49536034
>Is it likely that monero will become a stand alone medium of exchange even though it has the steepest learning curve of all crypto?
I'm a total retard and find Monero dead fucking simple to use. Send Monero. Receive Monero. Hold Monero. That's it. Compare that with all of the abstract shit that is piled onto ETH and ETH shitcoins like "Smart Contracts" and "Staking" and "Gas Fees" and whatever else. Not to mention the really far out there projects like ICP that are trying to literally be and serve all the purposes of the Internet. It's enough to make retard's heads like mine spin. Nah, I'll stick with boomer grug coins like XMR and maybe a little BTC for exchanging.

[Anonymous No.49536660]

>>49536574
>record inflation
People will use other things before they use crypto: precious metals, company scrip, fucking WoW gold, etc. The only reason you'd pick a cryptocurrency is if black market transactions become illegal, which is covered under the "PayPal for illegal things" use case.
>banning everything
Again, this falls under the "PayPal for illegal things" use case.

If it doesn't need to be private, it doesn't need crypto. If it does need to be private, only one crypto works.

[Anonymous No.49536675]

>>49536034
>even though it has the steepest learning curve of all crypto?
Send some XMR as a test; I guarantee you that it will be one of the EASIEST crypto experiences you've ever had.

[Anonymous No.49536701]

>>49536646
someone post that anon's "private smart contracts are retarded" rant about why ETH is so terrible.

[Anonymous No.49536798]

>>49536660
>If it doesn't need to be private, it doesn't need crypto.
counter point : banks. Legitimately fuck banks

[Anonymous No.49536838]

>>49536798
There's literally nothing wrong with using a bank if it's a transaction you don't mind the government knowing about and taxing, though.

My point isn't that crypto is useless, it's that it has ONE actual use, privacy, which only Monero does.

[Anonymous No.49536982]

>>49516727
Hold friend.
This is your hedge against globohomo. You can watch again soon situations like the Canadians freezing bank accounts over civil protests, knowing this will be able to be implemented under any gov w centralized banks, and you will be ready to transact without permission under parallel economy.

[Anonymous No.49537027]

>>49536660
>People will use other things before they use crypto: precious metals, company scrip, fucking WoW gold, etc.
That's because these have the first mover advantage.
Precious metals have been here forever but aren't really good at the using as currency bit, definitely not in internet age.
Companies go down, games pull the plug etc.
Crypto is still new and most of people still thing it's a scam/pyramid (which mostly is).
Once it matures I thing things will change.
Decentralized currency that can spend around the world in matter of minutes is just too good not to use.

[Anonymous No.49537054]

>>49536798

>>49536838
Is correct. You need clear transaction history built if you wish to do anything like buy property in most places without drawing attention. It’s abhorrent but needed

[Anonymous No.49537214]

>>49537027
The problem is that crypto is expensive; you're paying to maintain this very wasteful kind of state storage that you don't need if there's someone anywhere you can trust. That's why crypto has largely been limited to money; it's the one use case where trust is scant enough to justify the expense.

I predict Monero will be big, but underground. You won't use it unless you need to, but you will need to from time to time.

>>49537054
This. I do all of my legit stuff in the clear and all of the stuff I really don't want getting out with Monero and I never swap between fiat and XMR, ever. There's a wall between those two parts of my life, as if it they were being lived by two separate people.

Having very obvious things missing from your public record is basically screaming "ARREST ME", not to mention that mixing your private and public online lives in any way means that private things WILL bleed out into your public records.

[Anonymous No.49537221]

>>49536838
trustless ledger/transaction

This has value between large institutions, even if only for their clients.

For sure, crypto isn't significantly useful for daily transactions. But public ledgers for mediating large infrequent exchanges between parties is fine.

At which point - fuck banks. Here's the ledger it's on the up and up. Property now.

[Anonymous No.49537262]

>>49536034
>for those of you prepping for SHTF type scenario, what real world utility do you think monero will have in a CBDC future?

I think that in the best case scenario, 'the darknet market' will transition to 'the market' due to government interference in global commerce, ironically. Sure, people will spend their Fedcoin on approved items from approved retailers, but small business owners (including drug dealers and hookers) will not only reject Fedcoin, they won't be able to accept it. Either their FedNow accounts have been banned, or they can't afford the taxes and the negative interest rates.
So you'll end up with a 'not really black market' like they had in the soviet union, since literally everyone was using it. The market will use XMR because it's illegal to use legit coins, similar to the Roman hooker tokens.

[Anonymous No.49537375]

>>49537221
The problem is that large institutions don't need trustless ledgers because they're all keeping their own copies already without needing blockchains and can arbitrate settlements among themselves. The only reason you need a blockchain is if no one using your trusted ledger can afford to run a giant server farm, which all these banks can.

That was the whole value proposition behind Bitcoin, the same level of institutional trust without the need for an institution to, you know, trust.

[Anonymous No.49537417]

>>49537262
Yes. Best case scenario is if everyone uses Monero and no one admits it. It's also equally likely that the grey market you describe uses some other form of currency (maybe even FedCoin if the Fed looks the other way on people buying food with their money so there aren't food riots) and Monero is used solely by really illegal people.

Obviously this is the worse outcome because then every government would have a huge incentive to shut it down that wouldn't be there if half the people in the country had XMR bags.

[Anonymous No.49537722]

>>49537375
>The only reason you need a blockchain is if no one using your trusted ledger can afford to run a giant server farm,
or clients stop using banks because they don't trust their ledgers

fuck banks

[Anonymous No.49538576]

[Anonymous No.49538607]

>>49536034
There is no problem in acquiring monero awaiting an appreciation in value in the future. You can save ?? XMR today expecting to buy a home in the future for ?? XMR. The fundamentals of the protocol allow for such capability, considering its emission rate is lower than the fiat emission rate. This and other features of the protocol position monero to be a major competitor to CBDCs.
About transcending black markets and being more attractive to "normies", I believe this is inevitable. The last few decades are completely alien from the point of view of human history, where most of the western population lived in peace, in high trust environments and with high trust in politicians and public institutions, who at least seemed to be aligned with societies interests. The last 5 years in particular have served to warn you that such a period is over. Contemporary western societies have never been more divided and trust in rulers and the elite has never been lower. In such an environment a tool like Monero is simply brilliant. A way to store and move money without third parties knowing about it. You cannot hope for anything more valuable than that in an environment that can quickly become hostile towards you. Today things seem to be under some control, but all it takes is one sociopath politician to start freezing the bank accounts of anyone peacefully demonstrating against the regime (ring any bells?). Maybe you don't have much fear because today the person in power is someone you like, but in 5 years time that might not be the case anymore.

[Anonymous No.49538810]

don't worry about me
im just driving around

[Anonymous No.49538859]

>>49536503
>The only use for a cryptocurrency is still the only one Bitcoin debuted with: PayPal for illegal activities. Beyond that use, crypto is completely useless.
This is a short-sighted view of the potential of a protocol like monero, or even bitcoin in this case.
In addition to being able to carry out any kind of transaction privately (whether or not it is considered an illegal activity in your jurisdiction), the monetary policy of the protocol is just as important as the technologies that guarantee its anonymity.
To make it even simpler to understand. What would you consider superior, a protocol like monero, which is private and has a sound monetary policy, where the issuance rate has been considered ahead of time to remain below gold inflation, and which constantly decreases to zero.
Or a cryptocurrency as private as monero, but with an issuance rate that mirrors that of the US dollar, therefore decided by the people in charge of the Federal Reserve?
If the only function of a protocol like monero is to be the PayPal for illegal activities, the answer that is consistent with your view is that there is no difference between the above options.

You probably also never had to send money abroad in your life if you can't see how in this case cryptocurrencies are vastly superior than fiat in every way possible, including taxes, fees, speed and even convenience.

>People will use other things before they use crypto: precious metals
I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to actually use precious metals as money in real life scenarios. Maybe if you think we will live a in post-apocalyptic world.
For the other things you mentioned people will use as money before crypto, I highly doubt it. Maybe for some short term. If people are ditching fiat for WoW gold they will jave to smart up quickly enough to go for bitcoin and monero before Blizzard freezes their accounts :-)

[Anonymous No.49539331]

>>49537417
I'm oddly hopeful that the grey market will form and flourish. Normies, for all their faults, are more than willing to skirt the law if
>It's easy to do
>It's highly beneficial
Everyone likes to pretend that normies are the perfect little goyim, but the fact is that file sharing blew up because some normie shared a leaked single he found on napster with his normie DJ friend puts a hole in that theory. Normies were the ones who let me know about limewire after napster shut down, then bittorrent/piratebay after that became unusable, then 123movies in college when the college admins blocked torrents. The only reason Netflix took all of that over is because normies couldn't ublock.
Monero is just as easy to use as napster in 2000 imo. Normies will flock to it once it's benefits are way more obvious

[Anonymous No.49539618]

>>49534943
> It's as if they WANT to artificially narrow the range of technological thought.

WEF doesn’t want its sheep escaping their centralized banking system. If citizens of he world all start collaborating via a decentralized money system that the world governments can’t control, they are shitting their pants, coping, seething, and dilating about the thought that humans might become free from the shackles of government and Stone Age systems of conducting business like a fucking centralized bank. You know how many boomers are freaking out about this right now? As they forget that they really should just be planning out how their gonna pay for their nursing home fee and then their funeral? Yeah.. I don’t know why so many people are scared of the fucking freak klaus Schwab. He’s so huge and powerful yet it’s so fucking funny how irrelevant he’s going to become very soon here. Same with George soros. And your damn right the rothschilds and rockefellers and the fed is going to end, maybe not by silver but by cryptocurrency(probably monero unless something better is made). If the rockefellers are smart. There buying monero themselves. It’s the only way there gonna keep their yacht’s and mansions. But at least they won’t be able to fund baby killing wars anymore. John Lennon predicted the future! World without countries. Of course…. That’s about the only accurate prediction he made, there WILL be property, religion, money, and you will be happy. Well just end all the faggot fuck world leaders who send us to war for their desires just by running full nodes! Not a single bullet required.

[Anonymous No.49539890]

>>49536034
>but for those of you prepping for SHTF type scenario, what real world utility do you think monero will have in a CBDC future?

Obviously if your in an oppressive regime like Canada during the trucker strike, CBDC is not going to be your go to currency.

>Is it likely that monero will become a stand alone medium of exchange even though it has the steepest learning curve of all crypto? Will monero ever transcend the darkweb/edgy cyberpunk stigma and appeal to the normie market to force more adoption?

I don’t want it to ever transcend the dark web/edgy cyberpunk stigma. Literally has its place and it’s use. It’s a tool for the little man to be able to stand a chance in a world of oppression and censorship. It really shouldn’t have any more “stigma” to it than cash in a safe in your home, only difference is that this is a digital version of cash in a safe. Perfectly normal and decent people stack cash in a safe. But it’s something the Taliban and the mafia does too. So some may think anyone with cash in a safe is evil and up to nefarious things. But couldn’t be further from the truth. Privacy is always going to be important for a society’s sanity. Privacy of their assets and money is too. And privacy is something that’s been under attack since fuck head George w bush did his whole “war on terror”

[Anonymous No.49540353]

One of the few things I don't like about Monero is how much one coin is worth.
Imagine for a second that Monero has caught on, and normies are using it now. You walk into a store to buy a candy bar, and the cashier says:

>"Alright sir, that will be zero point zero zero six XMR, plus zero point zero zero zero four XMR sales tax. Would you like to make a small donation to the Disabled Veteran Child Canines of America Foundation? It's only an extra zero point zero zero zero zero seven Monero, and it's for a good cause."

It probably seems like a silly thing to complain about, but I really do feel like it could get in the way of transactions

[Anonymous No.49540490]

>>49540353
>It probably seems like a silly thing to complain about, but I really do feel like it could get in the way of transactions
It doesn't. Monero is like any other unit of account, but also being more divisible. Using terminology such as picrel is simpler.

[Anonymous No.49540512]

>>49540490
Sauce on image?

[Anonymous No.49540571]

>>49540353
They'd just denominate transactions in piconeros like transactions used to be denominated in cents when the dollar was strong.

[Anonymous No.49540577]

>>49540512
Screenshot is from a website I don't remember, but the MoneroPedia link mentioned is this:
https://www.getmonero.org/resources/moneropedia/denominations.html

[Anonymous No.49540768]

>>49531901
You're leaving out the fact that monero mining is designed to appeal to the little guy. BTC mining requires massive super computers at this point but monero mining is done and will always be done by people with a little extra CPU to spare and the returns will be much greater to those people than to massive mining ops.

[Anonymous No.49540982]

>>49540353
QR codes will be presented to the customer. This is further expected as Seraphis addresses will be larger as well.

[Anonymous No.49541680]

Been like that for a while now, local node is fully synced.

[Anonymous No.49541741]

>>49540982
That's badass

[Anonymous No.49542204]

i hit break it territory, i need more though

[Anonymous No.49542671]

>>49535144
Paper cash is getting pretty traceable. Money sorting machines are able to scan codes on cash as it is sorted and is able to log these and report it back to banks. It allows banks to measure where money is being spent and build a history of expenditure.

[Anonymous No.49543048]

>>49542671
lol monero baggies thought the tail emission was bullish.

Monero is the equivalent to a yield farming token.

Cult like holders treat it as sanctity, while malicious actors siphon off all XMR that they can using botnets.

[Anonymous No.49543264]

>>49543048
very nice, I'll be adding this to my fud collection

[Anonymous No.49543394]

>>49543264

Love me some spicy FUDpasta! Post em if you got em.

------------------------------------------------------

Somebody explain to me why Monero won't support organised crime.

Your argument is that it supports privacy. At what cost?

Terrorism, drug cartels, human traffickers and cyber attackers will all use Monero as it's to _their benefit_ to easily be able to operate anonymously. Then you have the problem with poor data protection laws.

Only the EU has strong data protection laws: GDPR. Google it for those unsure. In short, companies get fined if they do not take proper steps to protect the data and information of EU citizens. No other nation has laws equivalent to this than the EU.

So while Monero might help you with your need for privacy. You cannot deny that it's also a tool to help criminals. Therefore you are supporting crime at the same time.I cannot support a token that only enables organised crime.

Monero makes it easier for transactions to occur stemming from illegal activities such as hard drugs, child trafficking, slavery, etc. You could possibly do all those examples in fiat or BTC but that hardly happens because you can easily trace those transactions.

Therefore the only reason to use Monero is to mask your transactions. Not for "privacy" but to avoid authorities. If your hiding your activities, whose to say you're paying your taxes legally?

What's stopping all cyber attackers to start demanding XMR since it's so encrypted?

The token literally supports organised crime because it allows them to easily hide their crypto movements. That's the problem I have. Your right about privacy enables illicit crimes. That's an issue to me.

If I have the ability to destroy a child tracking ring, I will choose to end it. I will be sick to the stomach if it operates and I willingly know it does because I support the token they use. That's why I'm against Monero.

[Anonymous No.49544417]

[Anonymous No.49544513]

>>49544417
that thigh gap is just too much. looks bad

[Anonymous No.49545213]

>>49543394
Holy fuck that's one retarded wall of text

[Anonymous No.49545505]

I shit on all Monero tard that use privacy as their main talking point when the problem with Bitcoin was solved with MIXER

BTFO Monero tards

[Anonymous No.49545517]

*blocks your path*

[Anonymous No.49545602]

>>49545517
>*blocks your path*
said korea to ltc

[Anonymous No.49545952]

>>49545602
If that's bad for ltc then xmr is completely fucked

[Anonymous No.49545977]

>>49514786
>We don't need like 7 posts at the beginning of every thread.
yes we do

>>49515543
I'm highly suspicious of anybody trying to suppress access to information
Same

[Anonymous No.49545990]

>bought at $182 thinking it will bounce up
man, I hate this

[Anonymous No.49546094]

Do you guys think it's better to hold savings in BTC and transact in XMR, or do you think Monero will appreciate more than Bitcoin in the coming years?

[Anonymous No.49546509]

>>49544513
what matters more is how many children she can birth.

[Anonymous No.49546909]

>>49545517
Check XMR/LTC ratio
LTC doesn't feel so good.

[Anonymous No.49547084]

>>49546094
Struggling with this also. Xmr has definitely gained strength organically against btc since I began but nowhere near high. When btc tanks the market though, xmr gets crushed with everyone else.

[Anonymous No.49547169]

>>49545952
Not really. Xmr would likely never be on those exchanges if they delisted ltc for mimblewimble rollout so would not feel any affect.

[Anonymous No.49547968]

>>49543394

[Anonymous No.49548248]

>>49546094
>>49547084
see >>49512701
the article didn't make mention that some sha256 miners will also merge mine with other coins. not sure how that wold play out in the article's model. In any case if miners shut down as they become unprofitable, the "number go up / network effect" types might get a bad feel about the hash rate going down.

[Anonymous No.49548289]

>>49546909
He was mkultra, just saying

[Hodlin Caulfield No.49549437]

[Anonymous No.49550699]

When are we getting rich lads?

[Anonymous No.49551161]

>>49546509
amount cannot be disclosed

[Anonymous No.49551862]

[Anonymous No.49551916]

>>49550699

[Anonymous No.49552624]

>>49550699

Next Thursday.

[Anonymous No.49552648]

>>49537722
Why would I stop trusting a bank's ledger?

The theft that banks do isn't because they're lying about what's on their books, it's because they put things on their books that are bad and dare the government to tell them not to hold those things. (See: the subprime crisis, money printing, etc.)

A bank that openly lies about what's on their ledger is a bank that will soon be gang banged out of existence by other banks, central banks, governments, etc. They can only pillage effectively if they know what they have and where they have it. A bank might get away with blatant theft from client accounts for a short time, but that's a HORRIBLE idea because literally every other institution will smell blood and attack.

The risk of having assets on a bank ledger isn't that people CAN'T see it, it's that the bank CAN see it.

[Anonymous No.49552662]

>>49539331
>Normies were the ones who let me know about limewire
Pessimistically, the '90s and '00s were a rare high point in computer literacy because everyone needed those skills for work. Normalfags are dumber now.

[Anonymous No.49552694]

>>49552662
true, I work in IT and kids who are supposed to be computer savvy only know how to install apps on their phones and don't even know basic file structures.

[Anonymous No.49552731]

>>49538859
>If the only function of a protocol like monero is to be the PayPal for illegal activities, the answer that is consistent with your view is that there is no difference between the above options.
Saying that Monero is good because it isn't insanely debasing itself is like saying your car is good because it moves; it's a baseline, not a bragging point. The same strong suit could be said of WoW gold.

>You probably also never had to send money abroad in your life
Being completely unable to use any non-XMR crypto to send money abroad for a reasonable rate/at a reasonable speed is actually one of the things that made me realize that most crypto is utter garbage, actually.

>>49538859
>I don't think you appreciate how hard it is to actually use precious metals as money in real life scenarios.
Bitcoin will always be impossible to use because it's a Chinese mining speculation operation at this point. Monero is the only currency that actually works and it's precisely because it seeks to ONLY be a payment network.

[Anonymous No.49552811]

>>49552694
Kids now literally cannot use a file manager. They just stare blankly at it. You ask them to send something and you're LUCKY if they send over a google drive link with permissions set up right.

It's not their fault, of course, but it's very depressing.

[Anonymous No.49552876]

>>49536701

[Anonymous No.49553558]

>>49552648
Look at Canada's truckers and see how a bank can just cross you off a ledger for wrong-think under orders from politicians. If your funds can be confiscated at a moment's notice how can you trust that system? There is a reason people keep cash under the bed.

[Anonymous No.49554079]

>>49552648
>Why would I stop trusting a bank's ledger?

Because a bank's ledger can't tell the difference between
>a dollar
>a receipt for a dollar
>a counterfeit dollar (fed reserve notes, eurodollars, dollars that were printed on non-US treasury machines, etc)
>a counterfeit receipt for a counterfeit dollar (dollars that were 'loaned' into existence, digital dollars, bank reserves)
>bonds that are supposed to pay out in counterfeit receipts for counterfeit dollars
>counterfeit bonds that are supposed to pay out counterfeit receipts for counterfeit dollars (banks loan eachother T-bills in a way so that no one actually knows who is holding a real T-bill and a paper claim on a T-bill)

When they can't figure out who owes who what because no one actually knows each other's holdings beyond 'dude trust me', you get the 2008 financial crisis

[Anonymous No.49554627]

>>49553558
Oh, I'm not saying trust banks to be ethical, I'm saying there's no need for people to use and non-monero crypto because banks are already perfectly incentivized to keep track of all of your normie purchases.

The one use case of crypto is privacy, and only Monero offers that. Bitcoin is just a bank account but you don't even get FDIC.

>>49554079
A bank's ledger CAN tell that, though, because they all get their money from sole sources of trust (central banks) and invest huge amounts of money into detecting counterfeits on all their on-ramps to their existing digital currencies. CBDC's would actually be nearly impossible to counterfeit, which is part of why they're dangerous.

What you're referring to as "counterfeit" T-bills and dollars are actually dollars the banks have been given permission from the Fed (or the Treasury dept.) to will into existence. Their presence in the bank ledger is actually what MAKES them real.

>you get the 2008 financial crisis
2008 wasn't caused by banks not knowing who had what, it was caused by banks not knowing that the "what" was worth dog shit (or ignoring it because they knew they could just print/steal money to bail out their losses) After 2008, the one problem people DIDN'T have was not knowing how much shitty debt they now owned.

In summation, I hate this narrative that crypto is somehow "more efficient" than centralized financial institutions. If you want efficiency, use Visa. It works. For the price of your privacy, you will be guaranteed that your transactions will be fast and not tampered with. Crypto will never match that because it's inefficient by design. Any system that computationally guarantees privacy is going to be much more inefficient in terms of transaction volume, and THAT'S FINE because privacy is very valuable and is worth the cost. But you need to make sure that this system actually DOES protect privacy.

This is why I say XMR is the only cryptocurrency worth having.

[Anonymous No.49554664]

>>49545990
*Laughs in $200 hard buy-ins*

[Anonymous No.49554756]

>>49546094
Statistically BTC will increase in price because the rewards halve, investing in it is a safe bet to increase your overall wealth over a long period of time.
Buy and Forget you bought and do other things with your life.

XMR is meant for use in everyday life that you don't want your Government to know what you're buying / selling to someone to avoid paying tax on.
:)

But that's just my humble observation

[Anonymous No.49554840]

>>49552731
>Saying that Monero is good because it isn't insanely debasing itself is like saying your car is good because it moves; it's a baseline, not a bragging point. The same strong suit could be said of WoW gold.
You were the one who said that the only use for a digital currency like monero is "PayPal for illegal stuff bro".
Do you even understand how useful of a tool money is? It feels like you never really read a book on the subject.
It wasn't said that monero is good because of the issuance rate. It was said that monetary policy is one of the attributes to be considered when evaluating the usefulness of a specific currency to work as a tool to preserve value in the future.
It's much more than "PayPal for illegal stuff hurr durr" and hopefully you will understand that at some point in the future.

[Anonymous No.49554930]

>>49554840
OK, I'll bite. What's a use case of crypto that isn't served better by Monero (buying illegal things online because fuck you it's my business) or Visa (literally any other transaction)?

[Anonymous No.49555037]

>>49554930
What is there to bite?
You said here:
>>49536503
>The only use for a cryptocurrency is still the only one Bitcoin debuted with: PayPal for illegal activities. Beyond that use, crypto is completely useless.
>Beyond that use, crypto is completely useless.
The only use for a cryptocurrency is PayPal for illegal activities, and beyond that it is completely useless.

Have you been informed that monero IS a cryptocurrency?

You're stating that monero's ONLY use is to be used as a currency for illegal activities.
You really can't imagine any other use for sound digital money?
Really?

Please be consistent.

[Anonymous No.49555284]

>>49555037
>You really can't imagine any other use for sound digital money?
No, I can't, because a cryptocurrency is a KIND of digital money, not digital money in and of itself. See pic related.

"Cryptocurrency" commonly means a digital currency database that's collaboratively hosted on an online network that maintains state through a blockchain. Blockchains are inefficient and expensive relative to any other form of data storage we use because they're designed to solve one very specific problem (maintaining state on multiple machines that hate each other) at any cost. You pay a premium for that in terms of efficiency.

If I don't need/want my transaction to be private, I do not need a cryptocurrency and can use any other thing in pic related to send my money online. If I DO need/want it to be private, Monero covers that use case better than any other option, and so is the only cryptocurrency that's worth using.

But, yeah, unless you need to securely/anonymously send money online, you don't need crypto at all.

[Anonymous No.49555666]

>>49554756
>Statistically BTC will increase in price because the rewards halve

You mean historically. And past performance is absolutely NO guarantee of future outcomes, especially now that chain analysis and regulations are starting to become evermore onerous.

Not to mention the aforementioned security implications of BTC halvings.


>investing in it is a safe bet to increase your overall wealth over a long period of time.

"safe bet" LMAO yeah, Bitcoin can't even hold the darknet but its totally going to keep conquering everything else and NGU forever


>Buy and Forget you bought and do other things with your life.

Tell that to the poor fools who bought into the hype at $69K


>XMR is meant for use in everyday life that you don't want your Government to know what you're buying / selling to someone to avoid paying tax on.

I don't want the government knowing:

>what I spend my crypto on
>when and where I move my crypto
>how much I'm sitting on at any given moment

Monero fits the bill for all 3, Bitcoin nada.

[Anonymous No.49555881]

>>49555284
>unless you need to securely/anonymously send money online, you don't need crypto at all
Why does that have to be limited to exclusively illegal activities? Your words, not mine.

Is it an illegal activity to use a cryptocurrency as a store of value, compared to Argentinian Pesos? Would you say that trying to protect value from retarded monetary policies useless?
Are you going to argue that I don't need cryptocurrency like monero for that, because I can use WoW gold for the same purpose? Does the existence of WoW gold mean the removal of monero's usefulness to act as a tool to preserve value?

Is it an illegal activity to send money abroad to a family member? Would you say that trying to send money abroad, that is settled and made available in minutes, is useless?
Are you going to argue that I don't need a cryptocurrency like monero for that, because I can use CS:GO keys for the same purpose?
Does the existence of CS:GO keys mean the removal of monero's usefulness in acting like money that settles faster than any legacy payment processor?

>If I don't need/want my transaction to be private, I do not need a cryptocurrency and can use any other thing in pic related to send my money online.
It is not because you have multiple options to perform one type of transaction that this confers the designation that all cryptocurrency is therefore useless?

[Anonymous No.49556051]

>>49554627
I see what you mean now. I hate how delibrately obtuse all this banking shit is.
And I agree, crypto is not supposed to be more 'efficient' than traditional banking. The only thing it might be more efficient in is in settlement times, and that might be changing soon with ISO20022 and CBDCs.

>CBDC's would actually be nearly impossible to counterfeit, which is part of why they're dangerous.

Can you expand on this?

[Anonymous No.49556288]

>>49512643
if you aren't on some kind of list I don't know that you even count as a sentient human being these days.

[Anonymous No.49556340]

>>49535480
unfathomably based

[Anonymous No.49556377]

>>49556288
You're on the top 10 list of world biggest faggots.

[Anonymous No.49556507]

>>49536660
>>banning everything
>Again, this falls under the "PayPal for illegal things" use case.
Buying a mouse on ebay after saying "nigger" on twitter is something you'd call illegal then? Because that's the way our world is headed in the near future.

[Anonymous No.49556511]

>>49555666
>satan has spoken

[Anonymous No.49556566]

>>49556511

[Anonymous No.49556640]

>>49556566
CHecked

[Anonymous No.49556842]

>>49555881
>Why does that have to be limited to exclusively illegal activities?
Because if you use crypto for everything you are either:
A) Using Monero, in which case the feds will pound your ass because anyone who pays the rent in online drug money is Clearly A Criminal™.
B) Using Bitcoin/some alt coin, in which case you're just using Visa with extra steps and massive transaction fees.

>Is it an illegal activity to use a cryptocurrency as a store of value
In many places, yes, it is. In China, having undisclosed crypto wallets is illegal. In Saudi Arabia, holding bitcoin counts as an unregistered investment. In the West, failure to disclose your crypto to the financial system counts as tax fraud and spending your crypto on dissident political causes is effectively illegal unless a Federal judge hasn't watched MSNBC that morning. Again, if you are using crypto for something that is legal beyond a shadow of a doubt to the point that you'd be comfortable declaring that use to the police for fun, you do not need to be doing that thing with crypto.

>Does the existence of WoW gold mean the removal of monero's usefulness to act as a tool to preserve value?
If privacy is not a concern, things like MPesa or PayPal or even WoW gold will always be cheaper and faster to use than Monero. Monero's selling point is privacy. The transaction speed and cost being low makes Monero USABLE, but no one is using Monero just because it's fast.

>Is it an illegal activity to send money abroad to a family member?
In certain countries, yes. In Saudi Arabia, remittance payments are virtually illegal. If North Korea discovers that you have sent or received any money without permission, even in the country, they shoot you. Have any Russian friends? Good luck sending them any money now.

Every use case where Monero is the only option (and there are many) stem from one factor and one factor only: it is the only way to send money PRIVATELY.

[Anonymous No.49556897]

>>49556566
checked

[Hodlin Caulfield No.49556973]

>>49556566

[Anonymous No.49557015]

>>49556051
Sure. Right now the Fed doesn't actually print money and dump it into the economy, because the Fed is just one institution and at the time it was created everyone in the US had a local bank. So when the Fed wants to create new money out of nowhere, it buys securities, usually Treasury bonds, just like the ones you can buy yourself.

Now, because the Fed is the CENTRAL bank, it doesn't actually have to come up with the money to buy them; it just takes the Treasury bonds from the banks and updates the values in their books to show that Bank A now has $10 million more in their vault. This used to be done with physical certificates and bills, but now is done with computers, for obvious reasons. Bank A is then free to use that money however they like. They can loan it out to you, invest it in the stock market, save it for a rainy day, or, as is still commonly the case, order fresh new bills from the US Mint to load up into their ATM's, where you pick them up.

Because the Fed is not involved in any of those decisions, this means that your Visa card payments don't involve the Fed. Nor do your cash transactions; even YOUR bank has a hard time tracking paper. This is what makes counterfeiting possible, a lack of surveillance ability. Visa, of course, DOES surveil everything, but cash still can't.

Enter the CBDC. The CBDC is a digital dollar managed DIRECTLY by the Fed. You want to spend money, you tell the Fed. You want to deposit money, you tell the Fed. The Fed wants to fuck with your account balance, you have NO WAY of stopping them because no other bank in the US is allowed to issue a digital dollar. CBDC's wouldn't BE the dollar, of course, but would quickly grow to eat the use cases of Visa and your local bank's online services and further escalate a war on cash.

That's why they're so horrible. Imagine Jerome Powell IN YOUR WALLET, forever.

[Anonymous No.49557041]

>>49556507
>Buying a mouse on ebay after saying "nigger" on twitter is something you'd call illegal then?
Yes, unironically. Saying no-no words online is already illegal in many countries.

[Anonymous No.49557102]

>>49557041
Then I think you'll agree that "illegal purchases" will become very much mainstream. I thought you were talking specifically about like darknet markets and stuff, but if the entire politically right-wing population becomes illegal on paypal, that's indescribably bullish for crypto and unironically means Monero goes to like $200k.

[Anonymous No.49557175]

>>49557102
>I think you'll agree that "illegal purchases" will become very much mainstream
Absolutely. I was discussing with another anon higher up in this thread about whether the impending massive grey/black markets resulting from hyperinflation and mass-scale financial censorship will be all Monero (really good) or if the US government will quietly let them use the dollar, leaving Monero at higher risk because it'll solely be the serious criminal's choice.

>bullish for crypto
Bullish for Monero, yes. I predict a crypto crash that will leave Monero and one or two others (BTC and ETH, likely) and nothing else, and of these, Monero will be the one that's actually used.

>Monero goes to like $200k
My guess is more conservative; a few thousand per coin, or whatever astronomical sum of USD is worth a few thousand 2022 dollars a few years down the line if hyperinflation really kicks in.

[Anonymous No.49557179]

>>49556842
Ha, OK, I understand now. You should be more clear with your words because it's really hard to understand what you mean.
So basically, *IF* I live in a place where just having monero is illegal, and *IF* i live in a place where sending money abroad is illegal, then monero is **useless**, unless I want to do something illegal. I can see your reasoning if you're exclusively working under these assumptions. Ok. Got it.

[Anonymous No.49557397]

>>49557179
I'm not saying it's useless at all; I'm saying it's the only crypto with an actual use.

[Anonymous No.49557408]

>>49557175
>My guess is more conservative; a few thousand per coin, or whatever astronomical sum of USD is worth a few thousand 2022 dollars a few years down the line if hyperinflation really kicks in.

You also have to factor in the FOMO effect. The "Monero will flip Bitcoin" prophecy has been around for years now so the slightest inkling that it might actually be happening will send a tsunami of speculators rushing into XMR all hoping to get in early on the next Bitcoin, thus triggering a bubble and fulfilling the prophecy.

I would reckon the tipping point would be somewhere around $1000.

[Anonymous No.49557433]

>>49557408
True, but also remember that institutional money is less likely to pour into a project that's designed to evade surveillance.

[None !!ZrnK6IK8Nit No.49557519]

>he didn't compile from source
>he didn't git fetch --all --tags NOR did he git checkout --tags -b master

My man is running around with monero-wallet-cli version ??? on his shit

[Anonymous No.49557557]

>>49557433

As has previously been mentioned, transnational organized crime fills the "institutional investors" niche nicely.

>>49535290

[Anonymous No.49557978]

>>49557557
Maybe Kim helps us out, too.

[Anonymous No.49558024]

>>49554664
Laughs in @435 Euros and life savings.

[Anonymous No.49558229]

>>49557015
>That's why they're so horrible. Imagine Jerome Powell IN YOUR WALLET, forever.

Yikes. I forget how decentralized our current banking system is compared to what it could be in CBDCWorld.

>>49558024
Chuckles in $210ish average buy-in while crying inside about not buying at $120 while I had the chance

[Anonymous No.49559469]

I wonder what my boys in /XMR/ Monero General on /biz/ are saying.

[Anonymous No.49560258]

[Anonymous No.49561175]

[Anonymous No.49561309]

>>49556842
> In many places, yes, it is. In China, having undisclosed crypto wallets is illegal. In Saudi Arabia, holding bitcoin counts as an unregistered investment.

I’m completely ignorant of China. I know there pretty oppressive, but that for a chink it’s no big deal because… well their bug people so they just obey the law and since they don’t have diversity they pretty much all agree with each other and their government.
But this really makes me imagine that they are a country with little to almost no organized crime at all, unless there organized crime groups specialize in mainly victimizing people outside their own nation. But let’s say your a chink and your secretly a big libertarian anti government chink(do they exist?). Would you know about something like monero? Or is it all news censored out there? Would a chink be able to get VPN, tor, and trade crypto p2p on local monero or bisq mailing paper yuan by mail for monero? Hell I’d buy change yuan for monero via mail lol. He’s the one in more deep shit than I. From what I understand VPN , tor, is all illegal there but I figured these technologies are designed to bypass the laws of oppressive fuck wads like Winnie the Pooh.

[Anonymous No.49562066]

Just slurped.

May or may not officially have a sui stack.

[Anonymous No.49562249]

Moneroniggers on suicide watch

[Anonymous No.49562345]

>>49562249
>zigger

[Anonymous No.49562553]

>>49562345

Cope harder, pedocoiner.

[Anonymous No.49562613]

can someone tell me what in+out peers mean when running a node?

[Anonymous No.49562711]

>>49562553
>double zigger

[Anonymous No.49562739]

>>49562613
in peers means other nodes sending you blockchain data
out peers means other nodes you are sending blockchain data to

[Anonymous No.49563182]

>$162

God this coin is so good and so bad at the same time

[Anonymous No.49563273]

>>49563182

Buy Zcash and thank me later.

[Anonymous No.49563465]

>>49563182
What are talking about? Most coins have reached ATL today, ZEC almost did this. Monero was dumped to $114. It holds extremely good. But I am buying it at $60, yes. Btw ZEC will be $10 at that time.

[Anonymous No.49563691]

>>49562739
uh, I thought it was the other way around

[Anonymous No.49563702]

>>49562345
For a few threads now, the ztrash shills waits for the monero general thread to reach ~280 posts to start spamming his retardation. I recommend you don't feed it any (You)s.

[Anonymous No.49563805]

>>49514786
>Infodump anon is fucking annoying. We don't need like 7 posts at the beginning of every thread.
>>49518027
I still go back to them periodically for a link I forgot...

>>49554930
>Why do people hate being able to support reporters under repressive regimes?

[Anonymous No.49563847]

>>49563465
I'm talking about the fact you lose money if you hold this. XMR gets wrecked when BTC crashes but doesn't pump so good when BTC pumps. I wish XMR would become the stablecoin of crypto markets instead of fluctuating like this.

[Anonymous No.49563984]

>>49563691
in peers means downloads. Data comes in.
out peers means upload. Data goes out.

[Anonymous No.49564199]

>>49563702

You can't stop what is inevitable, cuck.

[Anonymous No.49565309]

[Anonymous No.49565515]

>>49562739
thank you anon

[Anonymous No.49566383]

I spent most of my spare money at $180 a few days ago.

https://is2.4chan.org/wsg/1654315576744.webm

[Anonymous No.49566510]

>>49512476
How do I buy and store monero completely anonymously?

[Anonymous No.49566570]

>>49566510
Anonymous storage is just creating a wallet, the official GUI is the best. You can buy/obtain it anonymously through cash-by-mail deals on LocalMonero or through mining it.

[Anonymous No.49566597]

>>49566570
What about this nano sd storage usb wallet thingy is it a scam?

[Anonymous No.49566627]

>>49566570
Ledger nano x. Is that anonymous?

[Anonymous No.49566662]

>>49566570
Also do I need to mask my IP when using the wallet or making a transfer? What ends of the entire transaction require local encryption?

[Anonymous No.49566864]

>>49566627
>>49566662
The anonymity is through Monero's protocol, you shouldn't have any privacy concerns with a Ledger device. As for masking your IP, if you want extreme privacy even from your Internet Service Provider you might have to rout everything through TOR or I2P. I'm not an expert on that though.

[Anonymous No.49567458]

Not slurping until 120

[Anonymous No.49567508]

NEW THREAD: >>49567492
>NEW THREAD: >>49567492
NEW THREAD: >>49567492
>NEW THREAD: >>49567492
NEW THREAD: >>49567492
>NEW THREAD: >>49567492