/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.49440896]

>the Central Bank can produce an infinite amount of money
>because the Central Bank is the monetary authority of the country, the bank has no bankruptcy procedure
>this means that there is no institution, power, authority or judge that exists within our country today, that can determine if the Central Bank's debts exceeds its liabilities and force it to be liquidated.
>this bank has more authority than any other governing branch in our country and is not controlled by any of the other branches
Why should I pay taxes then? Why doesn't the Central Bank just produce money to fill in the gaps of anyone who chooses not to pay their taxes? What's stopping them from just printing more money to pay off everyone's debt?

[Anonymous No.49441098]

>Why doesn't the Central Bank just produce money to fill in the gaps
they already do this
there's nobody to stop treasury from minting an infinite amount of treasury bonds and there is nobody to stop the central bank from purchasing all those bonds at any price no matter the fundamental value of it
now you know why it's called FIAT
inb4 that retarded faggot who has never read the SLR rule comes to talk about credit lending for private parties

[Anonymous No.49441149]

>>49440896
I've been wondering this myself since the Great Recession

[Anonymous No.49441150]

>>49441098
Then literally what's the fucking point of paying taxes? I might be able to see some argument made for state taxes but the FEDs can go fuck themselves.

[Anonymous No.49441174]

>>49440896
> What's stopping them from just printing more money to pay off everyone's debt?
They’ll say taxes are needed as a deflationary pressure
Translation: we print too much and use your taxes to balance it out some

[Anonymous No.49441211]

>>49440896
tell me you're a high schooler with only the most tenuous grasp of economics without telling me you're a high schooler with only the most tenuous grasp of economics

[Anonymous No.49441220]

>>49441098
Treasury bonds aren’t needed
That creates more public debt
With a fiat system the treasury could print a $100 trillion bill and pay off the whole debt at once but that would cause inflation
Which is stupid because they really don’t care about inflation
>>49440896
Based thread btw

[Anonymous No.49441221]

>>49441211
>t.Keynesian trying to rationalize his meme ideology

[Anonymous No.49441257]

>>49441211
Tell me you don’t understand any of this by offering no analysis or opinion on the monetary system
Go read a book, retard

[Anonymous No.49441272]

There's a few reasons they make you pay taxes
1. It counteracts inflation some
2. it keeps you using the fiat currency because you have to pay your taxes in the currency
3. it keeps you poor

[Anonymous No.49441294]

>>49441272
End of thread

[Anonymous No.49441317]

>>49440896
Because the act of paying taxes serves the same purpose as one of those shitcoins that burns a % of each buy/sell.

[Anonymous No.49441320]

>>49440896
>W-we just do, ok! Now prepare to die so we can save money on social security by killing you!
>oh, and here’s several trillion to the tbtf banks!

[Anonymous No.49441377]

>>49441272
>It counteracts inflation some
Will it ever rebound? Inflation is almost at double digits. They seriously can't think any of this is sustainable. When was the last time inflation went down?

[Anonymous No.49441382]

>>49440896
The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury
We are simply watching the collapse of a government. Those in power are seeking to extract as much wealth as possible before the ship crashes. I think they are surprised shit has lasted this long.

> What's stopping them from just printing more money to pay off everyone's debt?
Would create a lot of moral hazard. People would take on risky debt anticipating another bailout (hmm wonder if this happened post 2008 in the financial sector)
>Why should I pay taxes then?
You should not. Federal income tax is illegal and inefficient. State or local taxes are more justified.

[Anonymous No.49441719]

>>49440896
babys first time reading the bitcoin white paper?

[Anonymous No.49441796]

Based thread
>>49441272
>>49440896

[Anonymous No.49442229]

>>49440896
Excellent thread OP, glad to see such quality in a see of shitcoin shill generals

[Anonymous No.49442256]

>>49440896
You're a retard, your taxes are just like circumcision, it's you pledging to the jew your life and recognizing he is better than you, taxes are there to pay back the interests on a debt that's been printed out of thin air and lended to the government (the fed buying treasury bonds with printed shekels aka quantitative easing).
You pay for printed money with real labour kek.
>work a year
>company pays 120k€ for me
>I get 95k€ and they pay 25k€ to the government as taxes
>I pay 35k€ to the gov as taxes as well
>left with 60k€
>anything I buy is taxes at 25% so I only use 45k€ of real money
>save it to buy a house
>inflation cuts it in half
>eventually buy house
>I have to pay taxes every year for the house I own
>want a wife?
>you got to share everything you own with her once she divorces you (through no fault of her own really, women are like that when not controlled, and today they have been brainwashed into being whores)
This is slavery, the goal of wagecucking is just eating, and of course the 120k€ is an example, I make 48k€ as a good software engineer with a shit ton of leetcode mediums and hards, of it I barely rent and eat.
And of course, it's Paris so I have to endure niggers, ethnic statistics are illegal here but through observation I can say with confidence we have already been replaced, arabs are like beaners in the US, they're somewhat humans with crazy beliefs but they're homosapiens, niggers are legit monkeys.
So yeah but at least we're not speaking german amirite.

[Anonymous No.49442354]

>>49441220
Why would printing 100T that'll cover the debt cause inflation tho? Assuming the debt is sovereign

[Anonymous No.49442425]

>>49440896
>Why should I pay taxes then? Why doesn't the Central Bank just produce money to fill in the gaps of anyone who chooses not to pay their taxes? What's stopping them from just printing more money to pay off everyone's debt?
cause it's scarcity based. if you make money available like that it disincentivizes work; like what are seeing right now.
money exists as it does now so that we are all slave cattle.
it also keeps society running. it's a necessary evil that enforces the haves and have nots.

what you propose can work but then a select # of people have to get over their head that a few noble individuals have to keep working to keep society running. a new system will have to be replaced over many years to get rid of the old generation's sense of unfairness.
so many white collar jobs now are trash and do not add any real value to the economy, but they are there anyway so that the ponzi keeps running and so that the money-job connection is justified.

[Anonymous No.49442471]

>>49442256
It's time for a White Strike desu

[Anonymous No.49442482]

>>49442354
It’s because of the lack of taxes being extracted and less to do with the money because that debt would be paid either way.
Taking taxes from normies gives them less money to spend on stuff
Long term it’s probably deflationary though since high interest rates or any interest on govt debt filters to the market through banks

[Anonymous No.49442503]

>>49441220
>>49442354
all this debt, debt ceiling and treasury bonds stuff are vestigial leftovers of the gold standard system.
they're that way not because they're necessary, but because of laws.

[Anonymous No.49442524]

https://ourmoneyus.org/how-public-spending-creates-money/

this is the only other site I've seen which puts it this way - which simplifies the whole "sham" of government finances
>Because our federal government is a currency issuer, it does not need revenue from taxes or bonds in order to spend. Therefore, the way of understanding public spending, which offers the greatest clarity, is that whenever the federal government spends, it effectively creates the money it uses to pay the recipients of its spending. At the simplest and most superficial level, the government spends the money into existence by writing a check to the recipient. When the recipient deposits or cashes the check, the Federal Reserve makes sure the check clears. For beginner purposes it is that simple.
>There are deeper and more complicated layers to this process, entailing somewhat convoluted balance sheet operations, which are shaped by our gold standard history and are due for an update in order to simplify the mechanics of the process. However, we will focus on a simple, straightforward way of understanding the monetary system without getting hung up on the detailed mechanics.

[Anonymous No.49442545]

>>49442425
This is bullshit

Income taxes and corporate taxes disincentivize people from working
People aren’t working because of inflation putting too much money in the market. It’s because they need more money than McDonald’s is willing to pay

It’s common sense
>>49442503
Yep this system became obsolete the day the gold standard ended

[Anonymous No.49442557]

>>49442503
To pay a creditor, the federal government sends instructions (not dollars) to the creditor’s bank.
The instructions are in the form of physical checks (“Pay to the order of”) or electronic messages.
The instructions tell the bank to increase the balance in the creditor’s checking (M1) account.
The instant the bank obeys those instructions, new M1 dollars are created and added to the M1 supply.
The bank then balances its books by clearing the instructions through the Federal Reserve, which debits the Treasury, the owner of infinite dollars. No money is destroyed because infinite minus any amount, still is infinite.

When you pay creditors, you follow the same first four steps. The difference is in step #5. The Federal Reserve sends your instructions back to your bank, telling your bank to reduce the balance in your checking account. At that moment, the dollars you created with your check, immediately are destroyed.

There is a moment of time, between when your instructions create dollars and when the dollars are destroyed. Those dollars often are known as the “float.”

When you spend, the money you create — the “float” — exists anywhere from a few seconds to a day or two. When the federal government spends, much of the float is permanent. It stays in the economy. The rest is destroyed by federal tax collections.

The “float” money created by the federal government — the money that is not destroyed by taxes — is called the federal debt.

In short, federal spending creates dollars and federal taxing destroys dollars. The federal deficit is the net number of dollars added in any single year. The federal debt is the net total of all deficits.

Contrary to popular wisdom, the federal deficit and debt are not a burden on the federal government. They are not a burden on future taxpayers. To “pay off” any part of the federal debt, the federal government merely returns dollars that exist in T-security accounts. No taxes are involved.

[Anonymous No.49442560]

>>49442354
Printing 100 T adds 100 T to the total debt anon. Than the sovereign debt payments the country is servicing will be almost 4x what were paying at 27 tril. Then well have to print more just to meet our debt payments, which will add more debt. (Incase you dont realize the act of the FED "printing" money creates debt, the money being "printed" is really just money being borrowed that didnt actually exist(fractional reserve)...thats kinnndd of instrumental to understanding why this is all a scam).. following this just leads to a spiral of more and more being needed to be "printed". Its happened before.

[Anonymous No.49442587]

>>49441150
Compliance. More and more people are beginning to not comply. Interesting times ahead.

[Anonymous No.49442597]

>>49442545
I get gibs I stop working and go do my own shit. you and I are built different. If I had to choose between working at mcdonalds and UBI I'd choose UBI every time.
If I had to pick between my old jobs as a technical writer or ops supervisor and UBI I'd probably go UBI. they are some jobs that I might be interested in but for me free money stops me from working

[Anonymous No.49442621]

>>49442545
I get OP is asking about free money for taxes and debt but I take it to the next step of why not free money for everyone. it is because of scarcity.

[Anonymous No.49442649]

>>49442557
How much interest do we pay on that float

[Anonymous No.49442724]

>>49442560
Not if it’s the treasury
You’re talking about the fed
Every $ minted by the treasury is debt free or backed by something

[Anonymous No.49442877]

>>49440896
They already do this, just not for you.

[Anonymous No.49443002]

>>49440896
Welcome to MMT! :^)

[Anonymous No.49443083]

>>49441211
go back

[Anonymous No.49443138]

>>49441377
>They seriously can't think any of this is sustainable
they don't. that's the entire point

[Anonymous No.49443186]

>>49441150
>>49440896
Your government has interest to pay on the loans it takes out on your behalf from the private corporation know as the Federal reserve. They need you producing so the country still functions and they need their IOU covered

[Anonymous No.49443187]

>>49442587
Also political virtue signaling/division to allow poors and leftists feel better about taxing the 'rich' and making them 'pay their fair share'. Or to temporarily alleviate the guilt of self hating cuck wealthy liberals.

[Anonymous No.49443201]

>>49440896
You are a retard, anon.

The fundamental problem everyone on this board has is that they think governments don’t assume their infinite existence.

You buy US bonds because the US will be around in however many years it takes for those bonds to mature and then the US will pay you interest. The reason US bonds yield so little is that they are the safest financial instruments in human existence based on transacted volume and number of disparate holders.

Crypto only makes sense if you take as-granted some truly deranged bullshit about (((them))) instead of correctly blaming Milton Friedman for selling people on the bullshit idea that markets are somehow magical emergent AIs

[Anonymous No.49443228]

>>49442560
>>49442724
Borrowed from where? The debt itself is imaginary? Who's forcing the US to ever pay their debt? Why not just keep printing money endlessly?

Is it a question of foreign trust? Because the fact the US dollar is the reserve currency means that the consequences of the US economy will impact the rest even harder so there's a balancing trade here, Meaning that inflation is never actually bad because the currency losing its strength against goods can just be countered by printing money endlessly and increasing the money supply without any consequences.

[Anonymous No.49443244]

>>49441098
People have to actually subscribe to your bonds.

Just look at El Salvador. They had to withdraw their retarded volcano bond because even you collection of abject morons somehow could sniff that one out.

[Anonymous No.49443305]

>>49441221
>>t.Austrian_School_Senpai
>>I actively reject the concept of empirical truth

Haha those Keynesians what whack jobs amirite

[Anonymous No.49443325]

>>49441257
Wow almost like things changed in the world from the start of the 20th century to the start of the 21st. How is this a difficult gulf to bridge for so many of you /biz/cuits

[Anonymous No.49443374]

>>49443228
The US’ titanic internal market means that the largest holders of American debt are the American people and institutions. Goldbugs need to stop bugchasing.

[Anonymous No.49443383]

>>49443228
It’s all designed to fuck over the working class.
The treasury was given the power to print money before the fed.
There’s no need for a debt based system, especially with sound money/gold standard.

The treasury could by a presidential order, decide to pay off every bond with treasury notes they create out of thin air like the fed does with fed notes.
They can by law create money. The end of the gold standard should have ended this charade but boomers are incredibly ignorant of how money works.

It’s only purpose is to keep the fed in business and take profits from workers and give it to private banks.
Income taxes are unnecessary without a gold standard or hard money too.

[Anonymous No.49443415]

>>49443383
You are a retard who does not understand double-entry bookkeeping

[Anonymous No.49443427]

>>49443244
The fed buys most us bonds now
That’s the way it works for all central banks.
They can keep this farce going as long as the red prints dollars without backing

[Anonymous No.49443440]

>>49443415
Ok schizo
You really need to read a book because economists agree with everything I said

[Anonymous No.49443496]

>>49443415
you’re the retard, your posts don’t even make sense. are you on meth

[Anonymous No.49443498]

>>49443427
Can you explain using your own words why the Fed did vast amounts of QE during the Obama and Trump years while inflation hovered just above negative rates? Why the spike in inflation is happening around the world regardless of any individual state’s monetary or fiscal policies?

I’ll tell you right now: you cannot.

[Anonymous No.49443517]

>>49443440
Name them.

[Anonymous No.49443525]

>>49442256
That's the thing that kills me the most, you can be making better money than most of your peers but can functionally be in the same spot. As your income goes up your problems often scale to match and coupling that with inflation etc. is just a nightmare

[Anonymous No.49443526]

>>49443305
>Keynesian
Go diddle some kids you pedo

[Anonymous No.49443542]

>>49443496
You have not demonstrated that you understand double-entry bookkeeping. enjoy collecting your NFTs

[Anonymous No.49443560]

>>49443383
You don't even need to back it with gold. You just need to hand over the power to print money to the government and they just need to be responsible with when and why they print money. All the gold standard did was reign in the fed a bit. The core system was still flawed

[Anonymous No.49443588]

>>49441257

>Added Trump but not Bidenbux

[Anonymous No.49443589]

>>49443526
Enjoy your deflationary spirals


>>everyone who disagrees with me is a pedo

[Anonymous No.49443638]

>>49441320
It's pretty crazy how slimy and crafty the long nose tribe is with financial schemes, yet can't be bothered to use those powers to create a healthy and beautiful world. If oligarch jews in power would just chill, smoke some weed, and realize they don't need to act the way they do, we could all live in paradise. We have the technology to leave scarcity in the past

[Anonymous No.49443662]

>>49443560
>they just need to be responsible with when and why they print money
lol
lmao
No one should have the authority to create currency units. This will always lead to fuck ups

[Anonymous No.49443694]

>>49443662
Right we just have a finite amount of currency units to distribute among a population we also need to grow continuously.

[Anonymous No.49443716]

>>49441272
All good points, I'd add
4. It keeps you chained to the system. If you don't have to pay taxes, you can just accumulate some wealth, get a plot of land, get solar electricity, and move towards not having to be dependant on their system at all. That's the last thing they want

[Anonymous No.49443730]

>>49443498
Yes I can
The banks were paid excess on reserves for the first time in history starting in 08
The rates weren’t hovering above negative for most of Obama and Trumps terms they were around 2%, which is the target rate
Trump printed massive amounts in 2020 but also stopped the economy slowing the velocity of money
Supply inflation is important but increased velocity of money means the same dollar changed hands faster
Decreasing the velocity of money effectively slows price inflation
You’re a retard
>>49443517
Bailout by Neil barofsky
The mystery of banking by Murray rothbard
The fed conspiracy by eustace Mullins
The federal reserve conspiracy by Antony Sutton
The secrets of the temple by William greider
End the fed by Ron Paul
The roots of the fed by Laura sanger
The trillion dollar conspiracy by Jim marrs
Picrel
Start their but I have many more for you

[Anonymous No.49443733]

>>49443662
There are literally dozens of historical examples to prove you wrong. The biggest hurdle to get over is making sure the responsible people aren't executed and assassinated at the behest of the corrupt oligarchs

[Anonymous No.49443757]

>>49443694
I'm not saying we should have a finite amount. Many interesting ideas are popping up with different cryptos on how to solve this issue, and I wouldn't dare say I know how to solve it. All I'm saying is that if a group of people control the money supply, that's a recipe for greed, tyranny, and corruption
Also, I don't think our population is growing, we are having less and less people each day

[Anonymous No.49443787]

>>49443560
Definitely I agree
>>49443588
It’s an old pic
I hate both parties
>>49443589
>deflationary spiral
Hasn’t happened since the fed tightened the money supply in the Great Depression
You’re an absolute idiot

[Anonymous No.49443829]

>>49443730
holy fuck. he buttfucked you >>49443498
you should be embarrassed

[Anonymous No.49443834]

>>49442557
>>49442649

[Anonymous No.49443859]

>>49443757
Until we put it in the blockchain it has to be done by people
I like the way you think tho

[Anonymous No.49443874]

>>49443733
>dozens of historical examples to prove you wrong
Please name some, I'd love to get more informed and see what do you mean by this.

>the responsible people aren't executed and assassinated at the behest of the corrupt oligarchs
The fact that they are corrupt and in the oligarachy means they use any type of means possible to stay in power and get more power. These type of people are addicted to power, like a gambler all in with millions on a shitcoin. They will never have "enough" power or wealth, so if they need to assassinate, they'll do so as long as they can get away with it
There are plenty of powerful bankers and politicians that commit crimes every day, and we know about it, and we have proof of it. Yet, what can we do about it? There will always be zogbots ready to defend the tyrants for a paycheck

[Anonymous No.49443925]

>>49443730
based book list

[Anonymous No.49443958]

>>49443201
>>49443244
>>49443325
>>49443415
>>49443498
>>49443542
>>49443589
>>49443694
I hope this fag chokes on dick

[Anonymous No.49443997]

>>49443874
If you have a government or a kingdom that controls it's own money supply and has competent leaders you've won against oligarchs and would be oligarchs. The name of the game is controlling the money supply. Whoever controls it wins, that's why the only play left once a true peoples government takes control of their money is to kill the people in that government and replace them. Tally sticks is one example of functional money supply and economy, purely based off who was controlling it. Labor economies are another example. There's many examples and explanations in "money masters" by bill still. Countries and kingdoms have been waging war against private banks for literal thousands of years and it's been a constant back and fourth. There is no solely technical solution to this it requires political action and actually holding the government accountable so you can fend off corrupt private institutions.

To be frank I believe we've lost and it's hopeless

[Anonymous No.49444021]

>>49443498
Your posts are cringe
What should I expect from a Keynes supporter

[Anonymous No.49444036]

>>49443834
few hundy billy but what does it matter the interest is generated out of thin air

[Anonymous No.49444076]

>>49443997
>Money masters
I love that documentary
I couldn’t agree more with your post but the bankers have such a tight grip on our central bank it would be one hell of a fight to ever get control back

[Anonymous No.49444108]

>>49443730
please post more books like this. I’m making a list

[Anonymous No.49444118]

>>49444036
It doesn't go to us. We shouldn't be charged to print money.

[Anonymous No.49444182]

>>49443997
>>49444076
I will save that one for later. Thanks for the recommendation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm6oeRgxs0A

[Anonymous No.49444192]

>>49441150
Because if you didn't, the bonds wouldn't be covered.

Bonds.

BONDS

[Anonymous No.49444202]

>>49444118
it does; you can look it up. something like 37% is US individuals, 25% foreign
nobody is charged for it it does not come from tax revenues.

it's all accounting and parlor tricks, according to that guy who wrote it it's not even real debt. there's 30 trillion USD sitting in accounts at the fed, all outstanding treasuries can be settled with no further interest by returning the 30 trillion.

[Anonymous No.49444214]

>>49444202
We shouldn't be charged to print money.

[Anonymous No.49444240]

>>49443415
you bought into the grand consulted lie of govt finances
https://youtu.be/U_bjDAZazWU

[Anonymous No.49444310]

>>49440896
They CREATE money and LEND it to the US government. The guarantee that they will be paid back by the US gov is income tax. Yes, income tax revenue secures the debt owed to The Federal Reserve Bank. When the interest on the loan exceeds tax revenue, the US government will be essentially bankrupt. We are currently not that far off, servicing the debt is now like what, 65% of revenues?
The Federal Reserve Bank also creates money and lends it to other large banks.

[Anonymous No.49444314]

>>49444108
Hell yes. Keep reading anon.
The creature from Jekyll island
Who really owns your gold by William Gardner
The history of money and banking in the us by rothbard
Big oil and their bankers in the Persian gulf by dean Henderson
Collusion by nomi prins
The tyranny of the federal reserve by Brian O’Brien
Tower of basil by Adam lebor
Killing the host by Michael Hudson
The scandal of money by George gilder
America’s bank by roger lowenstein

Many on this list I haven’t read yet, they’re on my wishlist.
I encourage others to add any I’ve left out or any fed documentaries too