What are the best index funds available in the E.U. for European investors wanting to do a three-fund portfolio, since we often can't buy Vanguard and other American stuff?

File: 773 KB, 1137x1689, newsshow21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Sep 2 14:31:20 2014 No.467252 [Reply] [Original]

What are the best index funds available in the E.U. for European investors wanting to do a three-fund portfolio, since we often can't buy Vanguard and other American stuff?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 15:06:10 2014 No.467281 Eurobump

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 15:24:59 2014 No.467300 Austriabump

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 15:59:20 2014 No.467336 Belgiumbump

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 16:01:19 2014 No.467338 DB has ETFs

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 16:02:59 2014 No.467340 >>467252 Why can't you buy Vanguard? Just do it through an online broker and you won't need the high minimums when you go directly to Vanguard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 17:16:14 2014 No.467418 >>467252 iShares ETFs

>>	iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Tue Sep 2 17:27:52 2014 No.467424 http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/EU_investing

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 18:03:43 2014 No.467444 >>467424 >withholding tax wtf is this shit, i've never heard of this before

>>	iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Tue Sep 2 18:21:21 2014 No.467460 File: 8 KB, 197x256, download (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>467444 U.S. funds aren't designed for non-U.S. investors. That's why OP and others need to ask about alternatives.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 18:55:00 2014 No.467500 >>467460 so international diversification is gay then? just invest in your own country?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 19:07:57 2014 No.467515 >>467500 No, he is just a self centered american. We have alternatives in the EU too, besides ETFs Try to find the foro of investing of your country, you will find that there are founds with exposure to U.S. market.

iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Tue Sep 2 19:17:04 2014 No.467522

>>467515
>No, he is just a self centered american.
WTF are you talking about, Europoor? I never said anything about what EU investors should or shouldn't do in regards to owning U.S. stocks. All I said is that EU investors who purchase U.S.-domiciled funds will owe U.S. withholding taxes, which is a fact. That's why EU investors don't put their money in U.S.-domiciled mutual funds.

I know you think its cool to bash Americans, but get your facts straight before opening your mouth.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 19:21:18 2014 No.467527 >>467522 So in your experience is international diversification not worth it? I'm UK by the way and wanted to have some international diversification but didn't know about withholding taxes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 19:23:48 2014 No.467530 >>467522 Question. I own a vanguard etf for developed countries around the world. American here. Do we pay taxes for those or is that built into the index fund? God damn does it feel good to be an American.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 19:25:40 2014 No.467531 >>467530 >Do we pay taxes for those or is that built into the index fund? Well even if it's in built into the fund's distributions, you're still losing money. Would you pay 15% management fee? No. So why pay a 15% stealth tax?

iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Tue Sep 2 19:30:37 2014 No.467537

>>467527
Yes, international diversification is very important. And you only pay withholding taxes if you invest directly in a U.S.-domiciled financial institution. Look for a U.K. financial institution that offers the ETF or fund that makes sense to you.

http://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/UK_investing

>>467531
The fund pays the taxes for you. The expense is built in to the performance numbers. Furthermore, you may be entitled to a tax credit for foreign taxes paid. (BTW, the foreign tax credit is a dollar-for-dollar reduction in your taxes, which is why >>467531 is a fucking moron.)

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 21:14:33 2014 No.467626 >>467537 >The expense is built in to the performance numbers. Yea but you're still losing 15%. That 15% would otherwise be saved and compounded if you were in the US. That's a pretty big deal.

>>	iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Tue Sep 2 21:24:52 2014 No.467640 >>467626 No your not. If your fund pays $5 of foreign taxes on your behalf, you get a $5 tax credit. That's a complete wash. You haven't lost a thing.

Anonymous Tue Sep 2 21:26:51 2014 No.467642

>>467640
>If your fund pays $5 of foreign taxes on your behalf
Right but they're getting that $5 from charging higher fees that they otherwise wouldn't have charged. So the expense ratio would be higher to account for this, right? I find taxes confusing, so please forgive me if I'm being an idiot.

iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Tue Sep 2 21:38:13 2014 No.467650

>>467642
The taxes that a fund pays have nothing to do with the fees that they charge. The fund pays the taxes out of the fund itself.

At year end, the fund sends out 1099 forms reporting the taxes it paid on my behalf. I then get to claim those taxes as a credit on my personal 1040 tax form. So if my share of the fund is worth $5 less because of foreign taxes, I pay $5 less to the I.R.S. than I normally would be required to pay. So I lost $5, and then I gained $5. No difference.

At the end of the day, there is no change to my net worth. Therefore there is no harm to me from foreign taxes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 2 23:07:50 2014 No.467764 If you want to know about europeans investing in usa, talk with an european who invest in usa, not waste your time asking an american..

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 3 05:07:39 2014 No.468023 I'll send an email to my broker with this question

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 3 10:22:04 2014 No.468196 >>467650 >The fund pays the taxes out of the fund itself. I guess that's even worse then. Because all the fund's investors are being penalised just because of a few foreign investors.

iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Wed Sep 3 14:21:40 2014 No.468401

>>468196
No, this has nothing to do with a fund having foreign investors. A fund owes foreign taxes because it makes investments in foreign domiciled businesses, which is the whole purpose of the fund.

I'm trying to be nice because I think you're honestly confused, and not trolling, but please stop drawing conclusions about things that you don't know anything about. If you have questions, feel free to ask them. But making wrong statement after wrong statement doesn't help anyone.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 3 14:40:53 2014 No.468426 >>468401 Are you european, from which country?

>>	iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Wed Sep 3 14:46:09 2014 No.468432 File: 12 KB, 327x154, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>468426 >pic related

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 3 16:07:28 2014 No.468519 >>468432 Oooo, now I understand everything. What the fuck are you doing in this thread then?

Anonymous Wed Sep 3 16:19:27 2014 No.468548

>Hey guys look, an european thread
>AMERIKA FUCK YEAH!
>and that's why we are the number ones and yuroop is not
>AMERIKA FUCK YEAH!
I thought that it was a /biz/ness board, not a retarded /pol/tier Europe vs America childish shit.
OP you have alternatives to invest in america, is not everything black or white like the autists had told you in this thread, do your research in a serious web with adult users.

iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Wed Sep 3 16:29:41 2014 No.468561
File: 1.16 MB, 307x465, EX1_383_premium.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>468519
Sorry, but you don't get to decide who participates in which threads. And since I know a lot more about global investing than you, at least I bring something of value to the discussion.

>In other words, don't test me child.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 3 17:33:26 2014 No.468626 >>468401 Sorry iHaz. You're right, I am confused. If a fund you're invested in is paying taxes to foreign countries, then that must eat into the return somewhere? I would just be better off investing in my own country?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 3 17:39:54 2014 No.468635 File: 2.51 MB, 1946x4914, 1403506659768.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>468561

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 3 17:41:25 2014 No.468637 File: 118 KB, 527x628, 1408403152252.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>468561 :)

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 3 17:45:26 2014 No.468640 File: 13 KB, 236x285, 1337103462748.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>468635 #rekt

iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Wed Sep 3 18:22:05 2014 No.468675
File: 49 KB, 798x331, Clipboard01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>468626
>If a fund you're invested in is paying taxes to foreign countries, then that must eat into the return somewhere?
Yes, but usually it's worth it. If my international fund is returning 70% while the S&P 500 is only returning 35%, I don't care about some taxes being paid.
>pic related

And if you want to add international exposure to your portfolio, its unavoidable that you'll be exposed to foreign taxes one way or another.

Furthermore, all funds incur expenses, whether it be trading costs, advisory fees, third-party management fees, or taxes. What matters as an investor are (a) the fees you pay, (b) the net performance of the fund, and (c) the role of the fund in your overall allocation strategy.

>>468640
Hehe, yeah, I wrecked that guy so bad he left /biz/ and hasn't posted since. I almost feel sorry.

Anonymous Wed Sep 3 19:23:19 2014 No.468748

>>468675
Thanks for clarifying the deal with taxes and international investing. I noticed earlier in the thread that you said only if I invested a U.S. domiciled institution would i incur withholding taxes. So if I can invest in a mutual fund/ETF that's domiciled in the UK/Ireland/Luxembourg, I should pick that option instead?

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 3 20:17:36 2014 No.468815 >>468561 >And since I know a lot more about global investing than you How do you know what I know are you a wizard?

iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Wed Sep 3 20:38:51 2014 No.468832

>>468748
>So if I can invest in a mutual fund/ETF that's domiciled in the UK/Ireland/Luxembourg, I should pick that option instead?
Generally, yes. I've posted investing information links for both UK and EU investors in this thread. I encourage you to read the one that applies to you.

>>468815
>How do you know what I know are you a wizard?
Call it an informed inference. I stand by my theory until proven wrong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Sep 3 21:24:31 2014 No.468895 >>468832 >Generally, yes. I thanks, i really do appreciate you answering my dumb questions.

Anonymous Wed Sep 3 21:31:00 2014 No.468912

>>468832

How ca I buy stock without fees? I have like 1000 bucks. How do I invest it? Last year I had around 8000 to play with but my bank wanted proof of at least 50 k in assets before letting me invest. I don't have that. How does someone with small currency like myself start investing?

>>	iHaz !MILLiOnz/Q Wed Sep 3 22:10:48 2014 No.468959 >>468912 I don't recommend investing until you have (a) 6-12 months of living expenses set aside in cash as an emergency fund, and (b) at least $3000 of money that you won't need for any other purposes for at least 5 years.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 4 01:22:31 2014 No.469205 >>468832 Nice pompous words but you are wrong >>468912 What he is saying is basic finance. tl,dr: read a fucking book and learn before invesing

Anonymous Thu Sep 4 11:35:26 2014 No.469606

I'm from Latvia and I have looked everywhere, but can't find proper way to invest in Vanguard US total stock market index funds.

schwab.com does not open to Latvians
optionsxpress.com does not also
nor does
etrade.com
ameritrade.com
...
Anything else.

I asked DNB bank and they have some Vanguard ETF's, but no option to reinvest dividends, which sucks big time, furthermore I have to buy them with EUR and that's currency risk.

What do?

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 4 11:38:11 2014 No.469608 File: 309 KB, 666x1228, Screen Shot 2014-09-04 at 18.37.26.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Why no Latvia??? SHEEET! Looks like I'm gonna have to start investing in domain names and that's it!

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 4 14:36:17 2014 No.469746 >>469606 >What do? Don't worry, there has to be a way. Let's wait that an eurofag investor with experience appear to clarify the panoram

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 4 14:49:05 2014 No.469766 >>469746 There is a solution for most EU countries. France, Germany, Britain, Italy, but I'm from the Baltic states and nobody gives a shit about the Baltics.

Anonymous Thu Sep 4 15:00:33 2014 No.469780

I'm 70% in iShares MSCI World (developed countries), 30% in iShares MSCI Emerging markets (developing countries and China).

Both are cheap (0.21 and 0.25%, respectively), and they reinvest dividends so you get rid of the double taxation problem that dividend-offering ETF:s have (Vanguard amongst others).

I get them for free since my broker has a deal with them so brokerage customers can do monthly investments, starting as low as 50 euros/month, for zero brokerage costs.

Add some bonds to that and you've got a nice EU-domiciled, dividend-reinvesting three fund portfolio.

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 4 17:41:53 2014 No.469921 Someone pls to explain ETFs

>>	Anonymous Thu Sep 4 18:07:09 2014 No.469950 >>467252 Not trading the S&P. What the fuck? And I am in Europe. Trade out of Malta.

>>	Anonymous Fri Sep 5 03:54:15 2014 No.470494 >>469950 wut?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 6 02:39:08 2014 No.471481 >>470494 wut what?

>>	Anonymous Sat Sep 6 03:02:29 2014 No.471497 >>468548 shut ur mouth u europoor

Anonymous Sat Sep 6 11:35:14 2014 No.471815

Please don't listen to American investors on the topic of investing in American asserts from overseas they will have never crossed this bridge.
Speak to a broker in your country>

The form you are looking for is w8ben
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw8ben.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/uac/Form-W-8BEN,-Certificate-of-Foreign-Status-of-Beneficial-Owner-for-United-States-Tax-Withholding
Do your own research though

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/biz/ - Business & Finance