/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.465839]

My uncle just tried to convince me cash will still be king in the occurrence of any event; economical, natural disaster, wwIII etc etc

is he right? Is it a bad idea to keep a tiny bit of physical silver

[Anonymous No.465858]

Gold and bitcoin.

[Anonymous No.465879]

>>465858
what would happen to bitcoin in the event of a devastating solar flare, where communications systems across the planet are wiped out? I'm not trying to make a point, I'm genuinely curious.

[Anonymous No.465886]

If hyperinflation occurs then cash will be toilet paper. Any other situation then it will be better than gold or silver.

[Anonymous No.465890]

bottle caps.

[Anonymous No.465898]

>>465890
this

[Anonymous No.465899]

>>465886
Wouldn't a disaster result in massive deflation as banks become inaccessible.

[Anonymous No.465902]

>>465899
yea guess I agree. I was counting financial disasters.

[Anonymous No.465903]

>>465858

>Bitcoin
>mfw

[Anonymous No.465915]

>>465839
So what exactly are you gonna do with silver once civilization is destroyed?
You're probably thinking 'oh but it's silver you have to accept it'
'what can I use that for?'
'what do you mean? it's silver? you have to take it'

And here's with another more useful material
'this is clean water. ill trade you for that dear carcass'
'hmm well we do need water but I don't think your water costs a whole carcass, how about half a carcass'
'sure thing'
Silver is good as a resource in modern days. But years up ahead, even we only have a severe market crash, the only thing that people will explicitly trade is oil and copper and similar resources, as someone with a bit of skills can actually put that to good use. Silver and gold despite powerful uses are in technology and technology only.

[Anonymous No.467261]

>>465915
The thing is silver and gold have been acceptable forms of currency since the 7th century BC. It's been considered a reliable store of value long before that. Even through disasters like the Fall of Rome, the Black Plague, WWI and WWII, gold and silver have maintained relevance.

Obviously, in a shitstorm kind of situation you're better off with things like tools, food, drugs, weapons, and clean water. But once the transitory period of anarchy has ended you can expect a return to a system that utilizes currency and you can bet that people will start storing wealth in silver and gold just has they have since the beginning of civilization.

[Anonymous No.467274]

>>465915
You are wrong and >>467261 completely nailed it.

In an economy of barter (say, medieval Iceland, where money didn't even exist), gold and silver are more relevant than ever - as a common reference, and as an exchange tool.
Peaks of anarchy are only temporary and local; and even there, people were historically trading gold and silver against food, services or whatever.

[Anonymous No.467390]

>>465915
You are an idiot.

[Anonymous No.467402]

>>465915
Even if society "collapses" it's gonna pull itself back on track pretty quickly.
Unless every source of information is destroyed, this means all books and electronic media, which seems unlikely to happen unless all of humanity is destroyed with it (or the whole world converts to islam).

And betting on society collapsing is pretty silly. But buying silver or gold wont hurt you, but you won't make decent gains either.
There are better things to invest in. Better to climb the socioeconomic ladder first.

[Anonymous No.467438]

>>465890
BottleCap cryptonote.

Make it happen.

[Anonymous No.467442]

>>465839
Cash is king during crisis, yes. But you need to protect your cash from being eroded by inflation. The dollar has lost something like 96% of it's purchasing power in the last 100 hundred years. You need to invest in the stock market to preserve your wealth. Best way is with low cost, well diversified index funds.

[a thoought No.467445]

two scenarios:a devastating natural disaster: farmers & thugs control food or desperation--medicine for a loved one--gold and silver can be useful.
Or, a friend hacks somebody important and has to escape to Mexico, Cuba or just become anonymous overseas gold/silver are good once again.

[Anonymous No.467544]

>>465839
No OP
here is evidence from a man detailing a war in Bosnia when SHTF. After a while cash was fucking pointless.

http://www.naturalnews.com/040249_bosnia_preppers_survival_strategies.html

A very interesting read

[Anonymous No.467948]

>>465839
>Libertarians tried to convince me that during a collapse/disaster/manginacalypse people will eat gold

[Anonymous No.467957]

>>467438
A cryptocurrency called bottlecaps has already existed for some time

[Anonymous No.468013]

>>465839
silver is decreasing in value now that it's no longer being used for photography overall so demand/price has plummeted.
If it's an economic collapse then you're probably safer bartering than using currency so you're on the right track.

[Anonymous No.468338]

>>468013

>what is solar panels for $500

[Anonymous No.468350]

>>465839
>is he right

Yes

>Is it a bad idea to keep a tiny bit of physical silver

Until you can get it for $5/oz and the bubble deflates, yes.

[Anonymous No.468353]

>>468350
>Until you can get it for $5/oz and the bubble deflates, yes.
When will that be?

[Anonymous No.468412]

>>465879
Outernet. look it up.

[Anonymous No.468480]

>>468353
when asteroid mining will become reality

[Anonymous No.468482]

>>468480
I can't wait for that and space kinda sucks anyway. It's full of radiation and rape monsters.

[Anonymous No.468505]

>>465915

>Silver and gold despite powerful uses are in technology and technology only.

Are you trolling, or are you really this stupid? I mean, /biz/ draws a lot of retards, but you're really remarkable.

>>465839

To answer your question, OP: it depends.

Cash is just paper by itself. It has value because the U.S. government says it does (legal tender for all debts public and private), and the U.S. government is currently a credible force.

If the "event" you refer to doesn't significantly damage people's faith in the government, cash will keep its value. However, if WWIII comes and Washington gets nuked and there's a total breakdown in the government, cash will be toilet paper.

So if you mean a disaster like an extremely devastating earthquake along the Cascadia fault, cash will still be king.

If you mean a disaster like multiple high-altitude EMP weapons being detonated over the continental U.S. with nuking of most of the U.S.'s critical government and military infrastructure, cash won't be worth shit.

Verdict: your uncle is mostly right but not terribly imaginative. At least he probably didn't touch you when you were a kid.

[Anonymous No.468526]

>>465839
Before 1971 and Nixon's closing of the gold window, everyone holding cash was invested in paper backed by gold. Now, many people holding cash are invested in paper backed by nothing and afraid of the risk associated with gold.

I think these people have it backwards. It was the gold that gave the paper value, not the paper that gave the gold value. Mainstream economists expected the value of gold to fall once it was separated from the dollar, but it has continually risen. Only the Austrian school predicted this divergence correctly.

I highly suggest reading this short book to learn more. Free pdf version:

https://mises.org/books/whathasgovernmentdone.pdf

[Anonymous No.468541]

>>468526
>continually risen
If by that you mean it has traditionally kept pace with inflation, sure. Gold is seen as a store of value. Enough people believe it that it becomes true.

>backed by nothing
It's 'backed' by the economy and demand for dollars. If you want to say that the dollar is backed by nothing, then gold is backed by nothing as well.

[Anonymous No.468547]

>>465839
Maybe buy stocks in Heckler & Kock?

[Anonymous No.468570]

>>468547
>Heckler & Kock?

[Anonymous No.468572]

During crisis, cash is king. Barter is more acceptable than during good times but medium of exchange is ideal. Even in hyperinflationary times.

Even if gold is more valuable, it is only a matter of time before a Jew decides to write claim slips against their gold, and then Nixon removes the need to back it with gold and it's happening all over again.

The current system took a long time to evolve but if it breaks it wouldn't be hard to rebuild it

[Anonymous No.468575]

>>468570
Buy stocks in companies that manufactures guns, because gun demand will rise in the event of disaster. This is not a serious suggestion.

[Anonymous No.468585]

>>468541
Yes keeping pace with inflation is what I mean. Since the OP is expecting some major event that could be inflationary, gold is a good asset.

I will add 2 bullish arguments for gold:
1) As a monetary asset. Most today view the world in dollar terms. If the OP expects a black swan event that would threaten the dollar's reserve status, the petrodollar, or the paper market more generally, there will likely be a rush to gold as a safe haven. Gold will likely take on its monetary role as it did before 71.

2) The paper market has put downward pressure on the spot price of gold because there are more GLD contracts than gold in physical existence. In a financial crisis, the paper market could be threatened, which would cause a divergence in the paper and physical prices. This would be extremely bullish for physical metal as people realize there isn't enough metal to fulfill their contracts.

>backed by nothing
You're correct that the USD is backed by demand for dollars. But the key difference between dollars and gold isn't demand, it's supply. Dollars can be printed; gold can't.

The Fed has every incentive to print money, and governments have every incentive to debase the money supply to inflate away their debts. Too many scenarios for high inflation or stagflation exist to name. Hedge accordingly.

[Anonymous No.468592]

>>468505
>It has value because the U.S. government says it does (legal tender for all debts public and private), and the U.S. government is currently a credible force.
That's not how currency works at all.

People use it because it's a strong reliable currency. Without people using it, it doesn't maintain it's value just because the American government says it does.

[Anonymous No.468618]

>>468592
Nope. Government decree creates the demand. People don't just use the dollar because it's a reliable currency. They are LEGALLY REQUIRED to use the dollar to pay taxes. If you have a business, you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to take dollars as payment. You can't just say "I only take gold".

Every government in history that has used fiat money has had legal tender laws. It's the most effective way to make people give up their real goods in exchange for paper.

[Anonymous No.468629]

>>468618
>They are LEGALLY REQUIRED to use the dollar to pay taxes
Right. This is why people use it; there is a consistent demand for it because Americans are required to pay their taxes with it. It doesn't have value, however, because America tells everyone it does.

[Anonymous No.468636]

>>468618
>they are legally required to use the dollar to pay taxes
True.
>If you have a business, you are LEGALLY REQUIRED to take dollars as payment
False. You are only required to if you don't specify otherwise beforehand (e.g. You can't sell something for $5k and then demand $5k worth of gold, but you can sell something for 5 ozt of gold). You can barter goods and services for other goods and services if you so choose (though such transactions are still taxed and the taxes must be paid in dollars).

[Anonymous No.468836]

>>468353
Blimey.

[Anonymous No.469057]

if the dollar is no longer worth anything due to some horrible event, then there are much bigger things to worry about than whether or not you've kept a little silver.

[Anonymous No.469198]

>>469057
True, but there is no harm in thinking about how to prepare for the medium to long term in a disaster situation as well.

[Anonymous No.469565]

>>465890
>>467438
>>467957
No, we need actual bottlecaps for when the world is bathed in nuclear fire. I'm up to 200+, have you started collecting?

[Anonymous No.470380]

>>465915
I hate to be that guy, but you are right on the level that civilization itself is destroyed completely...
Like if some incurable disease has been running rampant across West Africa, and the death rate is over 90%...and there was for some reason an outbreak that could not be contained...gold and silver would be totally useful. Maybe if you had enough to entice the masses to work for you it would be useful, but my god, does anyone think it is useful after in a real crisis? The US dollar just crapping out, and we need to pay for our Cheetos with silver coins? Get real fuck. we don't live in a society in which shiny things hold value.

[Anonymous No.471360]

>>467442
>200 years
>$1.00 of stocks = $10,980,000.00
>$1.00 of gold = $27.00

[Anonymous No.471362]

>>471360
That's a bit of a misnomer. Gold was not a vehicle of investment before 1970, as gold was still tied to US currency or something. I forgot.

[Anonymous No.471368]

>>471362
A penny hypothetically invested in a basket of stocks 200 years ago would be worth more than your 100 pennies in gold. This is the power of reinvested dividends and societal productivity gains vs. a primitive fascination with shiny metal.

[Anonymous No.471376]

>>469198
Yeah, well, gold and silver isn't it.

If you're wanting to prepare fro "medium to long term disaster" you need be over on /k/ asking for prepping advice.

[Anonymous No.471382]

I just wanna collect some silver so I can fondle it. Where's a good place to gets bars? Online or at a coin store or something?

[Anonymous No.471565]

>>471382
>at a coin store or something?

[Anonymous No.471685]

>>465899
Let me explain why either Hyperinflation or deflation == useless cash

Hyperinflation - cash is printed into meaninglessness

Deflation
1. debt defaults == bank defaults
2. cant access bank == can't access cash
3. cant access bank == can't transact non physical dollars
4. as number of banks open -> lim 0 , dollars become worthless because they can't be transacted
5. people find other ways to transact value

[Anonymous No.471714]

>>465839

I currently buy silver at the moment and will soon be buying gold but I am expecting a slight drop in silver so it's cheaper for the AU

[Anonymous No.471720]

>>471368
>pre 1916 - gold was fixed to an exact amount of dollars - preserving purchasing power of labor for almost 100 years
>post 1916 - gold turned into a reserve currency eroding purchasing power of labor
>post 1970 - gold went belly up and has been manipulated heavily futures contracts, gold leasing, ETFs and other mechanism
>worthless shiny metal
If it is so worthless why does the jew-banking elite care about it so much?

[Anonymous No.471793]

>>465839
When everything breaks down, the only thing that has worth is food, water and safety.

[Anonymous No.471794]

>>471368
>a basket of stocks 200 years ago

You mean stocks of companies that went bankrupt around 1842?

[Anonymous No.471829]

>>465915
>Silver and gold despite powerful uses are in technology and technology only.

>>471376
>Yeah, well, gold and silver isn't it.
>If you're wanting to prepare fro "medium to long term disaster" you need be over on /k/ asking for prepping advice.

Actually, silver does have practical applications for long term prepping beyond the possibility of its resurgence as a means of exchange because of the Oligodynamic Effect of silver on micro-organisms like bacteria and fungus. Silver eating utensils or brass doorknobs will disinfect themselves in a few hours. To this day, the water tanks on ships or airplanes are coated in silver. Prior to modern refrigeration, one of the ways that people made milk last longer was to drop silver coins in the containers.

[Anonymous No.471838]

>>465839
cash was king when vikings were running around pillaging everything

it will be king when the zombie apocalypse happens

[Anonymous No.472432]

>>471360
>implying stocks only go one way

[Anonymous No.472454]

>>465839
When shit hits the fan, guns are far more convincing in getting people to give you what you need than any currency. Invest in weaponry.

[Anonymous No.472468]

>>472454

guns + cows + bullets + drinking water + shelter

fuck yo nickels bitch

[Anonymous No.472510]

>>471838
Cash?
You wouldn't touch my euro currency with a pole, I wouldn't touch your dollars, and that's not even zombie apocalypse yet.

[Anonymous No.472517]

>>471838
The difference is that their cash was made of gold.

[Anonymous No.472640]

>>471794
What happened in 1842? Are you really that stupid?

[Anonymous No.472644]

>>472432
>faggot who doesn't understand diversification

[Anonymous No.472663]

If you are not already self sufficient enough to survive during a disaster scenario without purchasing and buying goods I suggest you look into FOOD, FIRE, SHELTER, WATER. It's always a good idea to have some precious metals and cash sitting around, but you need food and water nigga.

[Anonymous No.472677]

>>465858
>gold
Doubt so.
>bitcoin
If west decides to ban SWIFT's for Russia, then yes, this shit will raise fast

[Anonymous No.472739]

>>465839
Bullets, fuel, food, water are the best assets you will have if society completely falls apart.

Minor socio-turmoil, commodities are good though

[Anonymous No.472746]

>>472739
Also firearms, survival gear etc.

[Anonymous No.472952]

>>467274
>You are wrong and >>467261 completely nailed it.
Are you fucking retarded? If the "apocalypse" (total crash of everything) were to happen, I can guaraantee you that the only thing that matters is food, shelter, gas and stuff that you can actually use.

Your tiny bit of metal will be worth fuck all.

[Anonymous No.472954]

>>468505
>Are you trolling, or are you really this stupid? I mean, /biz/ draws a lot of retards, but you're really remarkable.
You're the retard here. Care to elaborate on what other uses there are for gold and silver? Oh, and they arent' used as payment, seeing as only food/shelter/weapons/ammo/gas matters in a real crisis situation.

[Anonymous No.472958]

>>471720
>If it is so worthless why does the jew-banking elite care about it so much?
It's not the jew elite that drives up the price of gold, it's retarded consumers like you who hop on the speculation train.

Oh, and gold is a fucking shit investment compared to stocks (as the guy you replied to showed).

[Anonymous No.472959]

>>472432
>implying there isn't such a thing as diversification
How can you be on /biz/ and still be this dense?

[Anonymous No.472975]

>>472952
Lol
True barter will never happen, there will always evolve some sort of currency

[Anonymous No.472998]

>>472975
Pretty sure he was concerned with survival, not barter.

[Anonymous No.473000]

>>472952
I agree, it is a much better investment to get food, water, shelter, fuel and protection than to spend your money on silver or other precious metals.


If one would like to invest in precious metals for the purpose of trading after an economic collapse they should first make sure that they have the basic necessities for living before they buy the metals.

[Anonymous No.473002]

>>472975
you cannot expect everyone to assign true value to a commodity with no utility.

moving to barter would be the smart thing to do because the assets hold value that can be identified by anyone.

[Anonymous No.473005]

>>472975
>True barter will never happen, there will always evolve some sort of currency

Let's create a crazy worst case scenario involving two men;

Man number 1 buys food and water before the collapse and thereby has everything he needs to survive through it.

Man number 2 buys a lot of silver before the collapse and thus must now barter the goods needed to survive.

What sounds like the better idea when the state has collapsed?

Man number 1 simply sits in his apartment and eats the food and drinks his water while armed with a kitchen knife to sucker 'stab' anybody that walks into his house while Man number 2 needs to move from apartment to apartment, trying to find somebody to buy food/water from while carrying something he claims is "super duper valuable."

Precious metals should be something you get after you have solved all your other needs.

[Anonymous No.473059]

>>472952
You are wrong and you are an idiot.

Study history.

>>473005
In your scenario, man number 2 can get out of the country thanks to his valuable metal, while man number 1 is stuck in his shithole, soon running out of food and water.

[Anonymous No.473065]

>>473002
>you cannot expect everyone to assign true value to a commodity with no utility

Sure, it's not like gold has been considered valuable for several millennia.

[Anonymous No.473156]

>>473005

Apartments? Knives? They're both dead.

There are a few examples in modern history of serious catastrophes. Radiating out from every population center, within 7 miles of major roads for 100 - 300 miles, you can expect every house and farm to be looted. Hiding with a knife in a kitchen isn't going to help. Especially since there are 88 guns for every 100 people in the US and about 37% of households contain at least one firearm.

>>472468

>cows

Large animals will be nearly wiped out across the country within a year unless they're in very remote areas. Cows are an easy target for starving people and they can bring just as many guns to the fight as you can.

[Anonymous No.473220]

>>473156
>Cows are an easy target for starving people and they can bring just as many guns to the fight as you can.
not if you're living in a commune and keep the cows hidden in turf buildings.

[Anonymous No.473359]

>>465839
Sneaky shelters will be the king.

[Anonymous No.473368]

>>473359
australia?

[Anonymous No.473370]

>>473368
Me or the shelter? I thought only Americans did prepping.

[Anonymous No.473384]

>>473370
>I thought only Americans did prepping.
I've seen a bunch of Swede and Norwegian prepper shit

[Anonymous No.473479]

>>473368
This bunker >>473359 is in upstate NY.