Bitcoin's value proposition does not make sense

[Anonymous No.4558264]

Lately Bitcoin is being described as a "store of value". But what value does Bitcoin have, exactly? It's often compared to gold, yet gold has industrial and jewelry uses; its scarcity drives the price.

On the other hand, Bitcoin would be literally useless were it not a pseudo-currency (not fungible). But at the present moment transactions are expensive and slow, thereby negating Bitcoin's original value proposition. SegWit didn't really change things, and LN is years away. There are plenty other coins that are objectively better for transacting.

Please enlighten me, what exactly is Bitcoin's point? Its head start is getting slimmer and slimmer. Sooner or later it will be overtaken by sounder coins. Currently it just seems like a speculative bubble to me.

[Anonymous No.4558299]

>>4558264
Bitcoin is a bank vault which you can access out of thin air at anytime anyplace without anyone's approval or consent.

Now, imagine that you have over $50MM and you will begin to see the value.

[Anonymous No.4558330]

>>4558264
You hit the nail on the head. It is purely speculative at this point and is turning into a ponzi. Buy other cryptos that are actually transactable.

[Anonymous No.4558360]

>>4558264
The only reason it still has value is because people have been convinced to do autobuys
If it hits 100k a coin it still won't be used as currency because of transaction times

[Anonymous No.4558387]

>>4558330
>>4558360
I understand why you don't get it. You need to do research on why inflation has become uncontrollable and then you will suddenly realize... HOLY SHIT

[Anonymous No.4558394]

its the gateway to buying alts.

[Anonymous No.4558399]

>>4558299
>>4558387
I don't dispute the concept, but the fact that Bitcoin is king while there are so many coins that are better for it. Your example applies just as well to many other top coins.

[Anonymous No.4558429]

>>4558399
>Your example applies just as well to many other top coins.
No, it doesn't. You do not understand Segwit or LN. The problem with BCash is that they are insane and went straight to 8x blocks. Core is being rational and slowly rolling out upgrades.

Don't you realize that BTC is still a 0.1 software at this point? We're talking about creating a multi-Trillion dollar system here and you have absolutely no patience.

[Anonymous No.4558475]

>>4558394
This. You need to take the route over bitcoin just to get hold of other coins and if you want to cash out fiat its back the other way. Lots of people thus buy BTC regardless of price just to hold it for a very short time switching between other currencies.

[Anonymous No.4558488]

>>4558429
What does my patience even has anything to do with the discussion? I asked what's the value proposition of Bitcoin and you are not providing it.

Monero has a very similar tail emission curve, works as a currency, and it guarantees a very strong degree of anonymity and privacy. That's value.

Bitcoin Cash takes a lot of hate (some of it deserved, admittedly) but actually works as a currency.

[Anonymous No.4558489]

>>4558475
Why is the dollar the reserve currency of the world? Because most trades are settled in the dollar (including oil). Same thing applies (and will apply) to BTC.

[Anonymous No.4558490]

>>4558264
>But what value does Bitcoin have, exactly?
Because you cannot cash out, it is the perfect savings platform. The biggest problem with other stores of value is that eventually you cash out and lose your savings. That will never happen with Bitcoin, so you can watch your wealth grow for as long as you live.

[Anonymous No.4558511]

>>4558475
That's really because Bitcoin is the first coin ever. There are already lots of pairs with ETH numeraire, and they are increasing.

You are right of course, but this only constitutes short-term value. Bitcoin's value proposition should be long-term.

[Anonymous No.4558558]

>>4558488
Bitcoin has the brand name and normies might have heard of it, which gives them the false feeling of security, which becomes truth if more jews adapt it to milk that false feeling. I 100% agree on Monero, it is the next darknet coin for sure, which guarantees a constant growth. BCH might succeed, but in the end it will at most replace LTC as bitcoins new silver.

[Anonymous No.4558670]

>>4558264
>a thing is valued at what a buyer and seller agree to
>"bitcoin" has some arbitrary value i cant understand and heuristically associate with FIAT in my every life
>wow this just cant be real because i dont understand my own cognitive processes

hello? is anyone home up there

[Anonymous No.4558736]

>>4558264
One day I'd love it if I could see an anti-crypto FUD post which was actually challenging and thought provoking rather than easily dismissed with "your points also apply to fiat currency so stfu."

[Anonymous No.4558744]

please educate yourself before making such claims

[Anonymous No.4558764]

>>4558670
>completely irrelevant jabber

Please, offer some real arguments. It's not valued at what buyer and seller agrees. It's priced and that's a big difference. Speculative bubbles work precisely in this manner: price is detached from value and after a while it crashes back where the value is.

[Anonymous No.4558765]

>>4558264
LN years away? get your facts straight. I have a LN node on the testnet for a while now.. its coming before the end of the year

[Anonymous No.4558804]

>>4558736
What? My post is neither FUD nor anti-crypto, that's just ridiculous. I hold a large stake in more than one coins, so I really am pro-crypto.

Also, my points do not apply to FIAT, because FIAT is a good way to transfer money and it works. Bitcoin is not good in this respect and that's why it's now dubbed as "store of value".

I thought I could have an interesting discussion here on /biz/ but it does not seem the case. Until now I just read ad-hominem and strawman arguments that I'm getting tired of answering to.

[Anonymous No.4558811]

>>4558804
*coin

[Anonymous No.4558815]

BTC is the USD of crypto everything is tied to it for the moment thats why

[Anonymous No.4558826]

>>4558815
See >>4558511

[Anonymous No.4558843]

>>4558394
How long for though.... this will change

[Anonymous No.4558932]

>>4558264
>But at the present moment transactions are expensive and slow
no, they're not. Stop drinking /r/btc's coolaid

[Anonymous No.4558940]

>>4558264
because it's the most expensive to attack by a wide margin

[Anonymous No.4559001]

I don't understand. Can I not walk in to a pizza place that accepts bitcoin as payment and buy a slice with a qr code? I know last year there were pleanty if places that accepted btc as payment.

[Anonymous No.4559036]

>>4559001
This used to be the case. (((Blockstream))) has been pushing an agenda to undermine Bitcoin but everyone can see right through their bullshit.

[Anonymous No.4559045]

>>4559001
How could they sell me a slice instantly if transaction times were slow?

[Anonymous No.4559049]

>>4558264
the dragon is waking up
stage 1 is very soon

[Anonymous No.4559111]

>>4558264
Because no one gives a fuck about your fucking shit coins, ask anyone on the street what Monaro or ARK is and they wouldn’t have a clue. BTC has mindshare only nearly a decade can earn.

It’s how cash floods in and out of crypto.
It’s whats accepted all over the globe.

This is like asking why a Bugatti isn’t a more popular car than Toyota even though being better in every single way.

Because no one gives a single fuck. It took us how many years to get to this point alone, and this is where we are for the foreseeable future.

I’m fucking sick of these threads and alr coin faggots becaus they think theirs is better. It may well truly be better, but you missed the BTC boat and Link or what ever other shitness your invested in isn’t the answer.

[Anonymous No.4559151]

>>4559045
Because they don't wait for confirmations presumably. It's called 0-conf. But the worst of it is paying dollars on top of each transaction. Would you happy if your credit card skimmed a couple dollars every time you use it?

[Anonymous No.4559166]

>>4558490
Try this. Open your stopwatch on your phone and pretend the time is a from of currency. Never stop the watch. See your wealth grow! I have other tips if you like.

[Anonymous No.4559174]

>>4558940
Finally a valid argument. Thank you!

[Anonymous No.4559581]

Jewelry and industrial usecases neither justifiy nor reflects the value of gold, gold is valuable because it's shiny, and it's durable and there's a global consensus, that gold is valuable.

The difference between gold and bitcoin is, bitcoin is not shiny, and there isn't a global consesus over it yet, but discussions are started and consensus will happen. And unlike gold, bitcoin is safer to store and easier to transport(even easier than fiat, or any other value).

[Anonymous No.4560179]

>>4559111
Except that Monero will soon completely replace BTC in DNMs, the original usecase of BTC.

[Anonymous No.4560282]

>>4558264
>It's often compared to gold, yet gold has industrial and jewelry uses; its scarcity drives the price.

[Anonymous No.4560414]

>>4558264
Silver and copper are better conductors of electricity. Gold is only liked because it's not super common and is shiny and thousands of years later that's still all it has.
BTC at least allows you to access your money when you aren't at home.
Nobody gives a shit that gold isn't the shiniest metal, or that there are more rare metals, because it's established as a store of wealth.

Same with BTC.

[Anonymous No.4560457]

>>4558764
value is psychological faget, or it wouldnt be trading at its price.

[Anonymous No.4560562]

If you don't understand the value of bitcoin you don't understand the flaws of fiat. If you don't understand the flaws of fiat you should not be invested in crypto.

[Anonymous No.4560604]

is it too late to into Bitcoin? other cryptos? comeing crash? required reading?

[Anonymous No.4560648]

>>4558264

97% of all gold resources get stored without any actual usage. Gold wouldn't be worth shit if you break it down to its actual industrial usage.

[Anonymous No.4560649]

>>4558558
>Bitcoin has the brand name
I think this is the only reason, the brand, being the first one, and the fact that it's already really big compared to all the other coins, so it's really difficult for any other coin to surpass it in adoption. Most people probably don't trade for alts.

[Anonymous No.4560668]

>>4558394

>he's not using ETH to buy alts

[Anonymous No.4560687]

>>4558264
> But what value does Bitcoin have, exactly?

It's insanely valuable. A decentralized whole new asset class in world of price inflation and endless QE. It's not a currency but a storage of value, while its liquidity is so good it's off the charts

>t's often compared to gold, yet gold has industrial and jewelry uses;

It has way more use than any of industrial metals

[Anonymous No.4560716]

>>4560687
Ok, but this is true for many other coins, which are decentralized and non-inflationary. What I mean is that it's not something that makes Bitcoin unique.

[Anonymous No.4560721]

>>4560687
However, it lacks scarcity not because of the obvious limit and the fact that Bitcoin is deflationary but because it's so easily to replicate.

My point is:
If Bitcoin has all the value that you say, and I create an exact copy of Bitcoin in every way, what's stopping my copy from having the exact same value?

>but people trust and use Bitcoin
I know. So let's just agree that the value is in that fact alone.

[Anonymous No.4560745]

>>4560721
*so easy to replicate
I say this as someone who made a fortune with crypto this year and call /biz/ my home and love Bitcoin and hope it goes to $2,000,000 because then I'll be rich, but I'm playing the other side and want to know what you think of it.

[Anonymous No.4560840]

>>4560721
BTC is more than its code, you only have to look at the history of hard forks to know that

[Anonymous No.4560885]

Bitcoin is essentially the prototype to whatever will become the real digital currency of the future. That currency might exist right now and it might not, but BTC will one day have its throne taken

Search your heart, you know it to be true

[Anonymous No.4560924]

>>4560885
No, you're just too much a fucking normie to know that there was a prototype to Bitcoin, much older than 2007, which was successful, and has led to the Bitcoin you see today.

[Anonymous No.4560935]

>>4558399
>but muh better altcoins

Bitcoin has a 8 year track record of uninterrupted uptime, unhacked, solid experience.

No other coin can ever claim this, ever, unless they have a time machine to release it before bitcoin.

Anyone with enough money to matter is going to put it on BTC and not some shitcoin experiment that claims "better tech" (which is just memes).

[Anonymous No.4560946]

>>4558264
Party hat effect.

[Anonymous No.4560973]

>>4558429
>>4560935
all you bcash retards need to read these posts until they sink in.

[Anonymous No.4561140]

ProTip: Plan is to dump bitcoin after it reaches 10k

[Anonymous No.4561156]

>>4561140

The moment it breaks $10k is when full fomo effect kicks in. A huge psychological barrier will be broken and it'll go up quite a big I'd guess

[Anonymous No.4561203]

>>4558264
First mover advantage.

BTC was first, it's the one all the normies know. It's the one my older uncle asked about at Thanksgiving. It's the one people are giving as xmas gifts.

Any new coin will need to cross the HUGE awareness gap in the general public to get ahead of bitcoin.

It might be possible, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

[Anonymous No.4561246]

>>4561203
>Any new coin will need to cross the HUGE awareness gap in the general public to get ahead of bitcoin.
>It might be possible, but I don't see it happening any time soon.

This is very true. I do honestly believe something will one day take over BTC, but it'll need to be a game-changer in the space to attract enough attention to actually get the news and normal people talking about it

[Anonymous No.4561274]

>>4558489
The dollar has the most powerful nation on the planet behind it
Bitcoin? Not so much

[Anonymous No.4561380]

>>4561274
Russia is more powerful. They have more nukes

[Anonymous No.4561496]

>Bb-but gold has INDUSTRIAL USES

I'm fucking sick of this retarded meme. Less than 10% of gold is used for its material properties. If gold was valued at the rate of its industrial application, it would be worth a fraction that it is now. It's a store of value because it's been a store of value for 3000 FUCKING YEARS. And it's a material that can not be easily extracted, so its quantity is limited and the supply market can not respond to a change in value.

[Anonymous No.4561536]

>>4558264
>what value does Bitcoin have, exactly?

The value of freedom

[Anonymous No.4561561]

>>4561536
Yes chink mining centralization feels so liberating right?

[Anonymous No.4561596]

Bitcoin is popular because standardization. Its basically the gold standard in crypto. People who buy coins usually dont buy them straight with credit card but buy bitcoins and liquidate them to alts and shitcoins. Afterwards they coop their money the same way because the infrastructure is there already.

Thats why bitcoin is popular. It was the first and the biggest coin so it became a standard with infrastructure and familiarity in place. Its hard to change peoples habits so bitcoin will retain its value due to these factors

[Anonymous No.4561617]

>>4558804
Do not converse with zealots

[Anonymous No.4561719]

>>4561380

[Anonymous No.4561758]

>>4561380
United States has enough nuclear submarines and offshore silos that they could destroy any country with a second strike even if the whole US mainland was lost.

United States also has a much more powerful economy than Russia, as well as being allied with most of the world.

[Anonymous No.4561776]

>>4561380
>Weaker economy than fucking ITALY
HAHAHA

[Anonymous No.4561792]

People care less about material things like gold these days than they do digital assets. Look at Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, CSGO. People pay crazy amounts of money for what are literally model skins that don't exist as something real and material.

[Anonymous No.4561793]

You literally CANT CASH OUT; try it.

[Anonymous No.4561831]

>>4558490
kek

[Anonymous No.4561851]

>>4561793
>hey friend, want to buy a bitcoin?
>sure friend here’s X dollars
>send btc
Wew so hard. Also reminder that bitcoin is literally currency and you don’t need to “cash out”.

[Anonymous No.4561866]

>>4558429

>bcash

Opinion discarded.

[Anonymous No.4561908]

>>4561793
why would you even want to?

[Anonymous No.4562002]

>>4561793

false i cashout on coinbase and quadrigacx

go shill on an other subject its geting old.

[Anonymous No.4562616]

BTC mining network consumes 343MW.
Price per KWhr ~ 0.10$
Bitcoins mined per hour: 150

Price per BTC is therefore ~ 230$

There OP.

[Anonymous No.4562970]

>>4561561
This meme needs to end. Most mining happens on china because its cheap, so what, the network nodes are all over the world, and you have the freed to send value from A to B without permission and validate your own transactions. Kill yourself inmediately if you don't see the infinite value of this.

[Anonymous No.4563003]

>>4558264
Stop asking the same questions over and over again.

[Anonymous No.4563128]

>>4563003
Uh what? It's the first time that I ask such a thing and I didn't find similar threads. Also, if you count you'll see that until now I've received two valid arguments. The rest is strawman, ad hominem, etc. So it's not a straightforward question at all. (And by the way, you couldn't manage to offer a valid argument yourself.)

[Anonymous No.4563361]

>>4561758
Russia has more destructive power than the US.

>>4561776
Russia never had a good economy. Didn't stop them from beating everyone in war

[Anonymous No.4563436]

>>4558264
bitcoin is just a meme .

useless dinosaur coin. but ofc
>muh store of value
>muh digital gold

still everyone wants to cash out once he has made some money.

[Anonymous No.4563640]

>>4563128
Search the archive, this question was posted like a million times. Maybe you'll find some valid arguments there.

[Anonymous No.4564323]

>>4560924
sauce

[Anonymous No.4564923]

>>4563436
This

[Anonymous No.4565151]

>>4560924
If you're referring to Hashcash, it's not a prototype of Bitcoin at all. It's a proof of work system with the goal of limiting spam. Bitcoin is much more than proof of work. Hashcash and Bitcoin are so similar that Adam Back dismissed Bitcoin when Satoshi emailed him. kek.

If you're referring to something else, provide a reference or gtfo.

[Anonymous No.4565581]

The fact that most of crypto are just currency coins means there is still so much more to grow.


Ethereum is the real game changer, Smart contracts/ dApps are still a new concept but you can see the potential from things like OMG, Power Ledger and Substratum.

[Anonymous No.4565749]

>>4563436
cope

[Anonymous No.4565756]

>>4565581
And SALT

[Anonymous No.4566026]

>>4559151
This, transaction fees are way too high for everyday use. Not to mention if you fuck up and have to add a couple extra cents. I tried to buy a steam game with bitcoin but didn't factor in the transaction fee (bittrex didn't mention how much it would be), came up short, tried to fix it by counting the fee, still came up a little short, and ended up having to pay more than what it requested to make sure it goes through, adding up to 3x Tx fees, or like 8$ on a 20$ game

[Anonymous No.4566058]

>>4560885
Agree on this.
It has became brutally succesful. But "BITCOIN" as a world currency sounds way retarded to me. ETH would be a solid candidate.

[Anonymous No.4566099]

>>4566058

As fast as transactions are being done with ETH, I still don't see it becoming a world currency by virtue of it not being designed to be one. Its uses go way beyond that

[Anonymous No.4566136]

>>4566058
>all in on eth and xmr

[Anonymous No.4566238]

>>4566136
Sounds good. Though, Im not feeling comfy to jump in long launched XMR moon mission. Hope for dip