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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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455552 No.455552 [Reply] [Original]

If the stock market is a legit way of making money..

Then why doesn't everybody in the middle class do it? My parents don't do it, I barely know anybody who does it.

Is investing i the stock market a scam? It just seems like if was legitimate, then everybody and their dog would be all over it.

Am I missing something here? I mean investing in safe as fuck companies like Mcdonalds and Walmart..Again, barely anybody even does that

Why?

Why doesn't everybody own stock in McDonalds? Am I missing something here?

>> No.455557

>>455552
I asked my parents why they didn't do it and they didn't even really want to have the conversation. They considered it too risky and they didn't have the time to really bother looking into it to any serious degree. I imagine that applies to most people. Not everyone has an interest in it and that's more than okay. If everyone and their nan's did it then I imagine the market would be even more volatile

>> No.455558

Sounds like your community is just financially illiterate. Everyone in my family invests.

>> No.455560

>>455557
>They considered it too risky


Yeah but that's the thing..

It's like, wasting money on buying dumbass things they don't need is more risky than investing in Disney and Exxon Mobil, you know.

For the most full-proof companies, you'd think the average person would invest some money into safe companies

>> No.455565

>>455552
Most do it, they just outsource the actual labor to fidelity/vanguard etc. Too much work. Same reason they don't launch a business, major in stem, cut their cable TV, actually face and resolve their life problems, etx. Inconvenient.

Problem is compounded by the fact that it involves math and money, which are inconvenient to learn when compared to learning character names on your favorite TV show, stats for your favorite sports teams, etc. Might as well ask why more people don't eat their vegetables.

>> No.455566

>>455558
http://www.gallup.com/poll/166886/despite-high-stock-prices-half-wary-investing.aspx

only half of americans are invested into it

and even then, I'd like to see it broken down by age

would really like to see how many people in my generation (I'm 24) put money into it

>> No.455567

Most people over the age of 30 do it. They just don't daytrade or anything like they, mostly they roll their money into Vanguard or invest in Indexes.

>> No.455568

>>455565
>Too much work

hmm I see

Yeah I haven't actually got into the stock game yet, though I plan on doing so heavily by the end of the year.

But anyway, I figured you just put money into a company and leave it alone?

>> No.455569

>>455566
Only 86% of Americans can even read.

>> No.455570

>>455567
>mostly they roll their money into Vanguard or invest in Indexes.

So I imagine that's where people put money and leave it alone, right?

But that's what I'm talking about.

Why doesn't literally everyone do this? It seems as much of a no-brainer as as investing into retirement, as far as investing in safe companies go

>> No.455571

>>455569
I guarantee you the % of Americans investing in the stock market is wildly above the EU

>> No.455573

>>455570

Most older middle class people do, which is part of the problem: the buyers' market is saturated, and there aren't enough millenials and gen y to make up for the market loss whenever the boomers decide to cash out.

>> No.455575

>>455552

Welcome to the truth. You've discovered the fact that most people in the USA are financially illiterate. They don't understand the stock market, and people fear what they don't understand. However, only a few of us show interest in learning. Furthermore, The problem isn't just a lack of investment in stocks. Most Americans don't know how to wisely handle their money or even live within their means. They feel that its okay to be late on your credit card payment "because its only once" and that paying for a 500k house over 30 years at 5% APR is an excellent idea, or that bank loans are free money.

The flaws that they already have in their financial mentality aren't helped by our consumerist culture. People tend to have an obsession with buying a $5000 rolex when a $200 seiko works just as good, comes from a reputable brand, and looks more or less the same.

Congratulations, you have just taken the financial redpill, now try to live within your means.

>> No.455576

>>455570
Because most people are stupid.

I know you're looking for some really logical explanation, but that's literally it.

Most people are too stupid to save money. Most people are even stupid enough to spend money that they don't have, so they end up in debt. They have no money because they don't budget and the concept of buying things only when they have the money to pay for them is foreign to them. And when you can't save money, you can't invest money.

Most people get into investments because one day they look and see that they've saved a nice chunk of change. That's when they start wondering how they can use it to make even more.

>> No.455577

>>455570
Worth mentioning it works in cycles. Right before the 08 crash it was like 90% of people 25+ were invested. People are still wary after the crash, and the youth unemployment rate is like 45% so they are locked out. The market does get high participation rates, which causes it to overshoot and crash. S&p 500 is especially volatile lately because of the index boom mentioned above. Now Americans have "wised up" and are di-worsifying with (junk) bonds and other crap

>> No.455611

>>455552
1: Competition. Most companies are already priced in.

2: There are index funds like the vanguard 500 which give average returns with little fees, however these returns are low, usually between 5% and 10%, not adjusted for inflation. "Give me $100 and I'll give you $200 in 14 years" doesn't seem like a good deal for most people unless it is a retirement fund.

3: The majority of people who try to beat the market fail and there is a survivor bias when looking at the success stories, among them we see people who are very dedicated and talented, who often failed as much as they succeeded and sacrificed a lot of time and energy for only a small chance of success.

>> No.455613

>>455552
>My parents don't do it
Well, wake them the fuck up! Are they planning for retirement? Or are they like 1/3 of Americans who have no savings at all for retirement age.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/36-percent-americans-not-saving-100000446.html

>> No.455642

>>455575
Also a thing that people tend to forget is that leisure is a good thing.
Most people don't work to live confortably, they work for the sake of working and earning money.

>> No.455644

>>455575
>People tend to have an obsession with buying a $5000 rolex when a $200 seiko works just as good, comes from a reputable brand, and looks more or less the same.
There both insanely fucking over priced.
I have a 20 dollar digital that comes with the month, the day, the seconds. What more could you want?

>> No.455645

>>455644
A watch that will last decades.

>> No.455651

>>455642
>work for the sake

Only sexless freaks do this. People ultimately work to earn money to satisfy their wants. Any pleasure is like the pleasure Ned Flanders gets sniffing his cash register's ink.

>> No.455652

>>455644
How about: everyone has a phone these days, and phones have the time on it.

>> No.455657

>>455652
But you can drop phones.
Another thing! Why does everyone have smartphones and tablets? If you wanna be online, just get a fucking laptop. If you want a phone with a battery that will last more than 6 hours, get an old fashioned and by-god functioning cell.

>> No.455677

>>455657
I've smashed two watches in my life and zero phones! And phones have more utility and are pretty cheap.

>> No.455687

>>455657
If I want to know something right away, it's pretty handy to have a device in your pocket that you can whip out and do a search from. Also, the batteries last for days if the phone is just sitting there idle.

Did your grandkids turn you on to 4chan?

>> No.455696 [DELETED] 

>>455560
"safe companies" "fool proof companies" yadda yadda, you're funny mate. There is no such thing. I had a parent that worked for Enron. So don't spout that shit.

>>455552
With access to information and technology now-a-days, the stock market is nothing more than legalized gambling. You have your poker pros that come out ahead, because they know how to. You have your middle class wasting time at the slots. You have the few intelligent, small investors doing well at the blackjack table. But most of them are out losing there losing their shirts in the bright lights.

Legalized. fucking. Gambling.

>> No.455698

>>455696
So investing savings to get a positive annual return is gambling?

>> No.455700

>>455560
"safe companies" "fool proof companies" yadda yadda, you're funny mate. There is no such thing. I had a parent that worked for Enron. So don't spout that shit.

>>455552 (OP)
With access to information and technology now-a-days, the stock market is nothing more than legalized gambling. You have your poker pros that come out ahead, because they know how to and play with large amounts of cash. You have your middle class wasting time at the slots. You have the few intelligent, small investors doing well at the blackjack table. But most of them are out there losing their shirts in the bright lights.

Legalized. fucking. Gambling.

>> No.455705

>>455611
That's not how compounding interest works.

>> No.455707

>>455568
>But anyway, I figured you just put money into a company and leave it alone?

Hahahaha oh wow... you're in a loooong run, kid.

>> No.455788

Everybody is super worried about it because " blah blah the economy blah next on fux news" and because the majority of human beings are idiots that don't know how to do research. I'm 22 and teaching the stock market to those young and old alike because I think it's a sorry state of affairs when people think they have to work 20000 jobs to pay for anything.

Tldr it's all because of the false notion that gambling is involved, or that it's risky, when it is really more like playing chess.

>> No.455791

>>455552
Everyone in the middle class does do it, it's called a 401k

>> No.455796

>>455707

>implying you have to go short

Buying and holding is a perfectly fine strategy, dipshit. You just have to make sure you don't pick a company that will go bankrupt within your lifetime.

>> No.455797

I don't really make enough money to meaningfully put into a regular account. I max an IRA and can put about the same amount into my (sadly unmatched) 401k, but really not much more I can do beyond that.

I think it's the same for most middle classers

>> No.455805

>>455611
> shit talking muh vanguard indexes

It's like you hate money. You even point out how it's hard as fuck to beat the market. That 7-10% growth is literally the average rate for the market year to year. What's more those indexes are the type that produce dividends so you're seeing more money without having to sell shit.

People who spend their entire education and lives learning the market fuck up often in their guesses and you expect the average layman to do better? Indexes are just about a surebet and if you hold off on longterm holdings you save yourself a hell of a lot on capital gains taxes.

>> No.455864

Most people don't even understand the basic mechanics of the economy, and you're asking this question?

>> No.455871

>>455552
people are stupid.
>>455557
If people knew how to properly manage their personal finances, I think the country would be better off.

Older people tend to invest in long term stocks that pay dividends for extended periods of time. You don't know what you're talking about.

>> No.455872

>>455569
I'm sure there are a few of them invested in the stock market. Hell I bet half of doge investors are illiterate.

>> No.455874

>>455552
A number of reasons, firstly it depends on individuals risk appetites. and the return on other investments (Interest rates and yields). The return on equities depends on the size of your investment as well and does require some financial literacy. Also depends on what way you mean by making money. Speculators make money by taking advantages of price discrepancies where as mum and dad investors (pension funds as well) more so go for long term capital growth and sound dividend payments.

>> No.455889

>>455552
saving money is hard for people.

5k/mo income is treated like 6k. it must all be spent!!

people making 100k a year do this shit. people making 50k a year do it even more.

i bust my ass to put half my income into stocks/etc. i'd bet the farm noone else i personally know is doing the same. its just a different mindset.

every now and then i think they have it right, because their lives seem so more enriched and im just looking at numbers on scottrade instead. ive thought this for years.

but im confident that someday, well before im 40, the tables will turn and ill slide into that 'fuck you' house only because of my financial patience through my 20s.

>> No.455893

>>455552
>If the stock market is a legit way of making money..

>Then why doesn't everybody in the middle class do it? My parents don't do it, I barely know anybody who does it.

uh, middle classers do it alla time. also, nice reference point re: you "my parents don't do it".

then again, middle classers are totally innumerate. so they buy into lots of shitty mutual funds, trusting people like me to pick for their 401(k)s.

People like me get our rake, because we actually learned these things.

then again, most plebs never know anything about aerodynamics, but daily they go on planes.

People like OP would buy wwe stock.

>> No.455927

>>455552
A variety of reasons, for one thing, those older people such as your parents have lived through crashes, they understand that that can happen(See dot-bust, financial crash). The unfortunate thing for these souls is they don't understand the day-to-day performance of the market, stocks may go up or down, but over the long term the trend is a definite rising tide, to the tune of 5%(Piketty's estimate for capital returns after inflation), 7%(S&P 500 over last 100 years), ~15%(Berkshire Hathaway's over 40 years), etc.

Secondly, most people look at finances as some sort of horrible monstrosity that is better left out of sight and out of mind. These are the people who maintain credit card debt and other interest overhangs and don't understand how much they are paying for it. Frugality is a dirty word to some of them.

Talking about investments and other assets to these people makes two things happen to them:
1. Their eyes glaze over
2. They want the conversation to end as quickly as possible, because they don't want to think about how far behind they are, or how short the period of pain would be for a recovery of their financial life.

Third, there are those of us who understand how to put off pleasure. This is IMO one of the most important things to actually have any money to invest in the first place.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_gratification

Some people just don't understand this perspective. I have a coworker who has 6 vehicles with her husband, 2 project trucks(50's Chevy's), 2 big commuting trucks(gas mileage a shit, new), a dune buggy, and a fifth wheel big enough to even house the dune buggy. I'm relatively certain that by myself I save more money than both of them combined(they make the same salary I do).

There also might be, IMO, a certain trust of the practice of employment. Older people grew up in a time when, sure, companies were downsizing sometimes and such, but pensions, decent wages, and relatively low unemployment existed.

>> No.456137

>>455569
>believing sandnigger propaganda

Can you read?

>> No.456145

>>455552
Very good question OP.

The reason they don't is because they think it's "gambling" or lack financial literacy. They don't teach you about the stock market and compound interest at school. So all people know are that they're used to seeing, real estate and private equity. Which is what most people stick to.

But if they did have knowledge of the stock market they would use it for sure. It comes down to lack of knowledge. Why is there that lack of knowledge? Different answers according to different people.

>> No.456254

>>455577
>Not buying the dip
Wait until this one, there'll be some fantastic growth when it springs back up over a few years.

>> No.456257 [DELETED] 

>>455611
>"Give me $100 and I'll give you $200 in 14 years"
$100 in 10 years is $379.77 at 10% a year.

http://www.daveramsey.com/article/investing-calculator/lifeandmoney_investing/#/entry_form

>> No.456258

>>455611
>"Give me $100 and I'll give you $200 in 14 years"
$100 in 14 years is $379.77 at 10% a year.
At 15% it's $707.55.

http://www.daveramsey.com/article/investing-calculator/lifeandmoney_investing/#/entry_form

>> No.456292

>>455552
Financial illiteracy, being awful with money etc.

In school I was literally taught NOTHING about saving my money, investing etc. You know, just basic financial shit. Thank fucking god I have parents who are financially literate that filled in the knowledge gap for me. Taught me the importance of saving your money, investing, living within your means and shit like that.

>> No.456304

>>456254
Disagree
This one will be the Nikkei style crash we never come back from

>> No.456314

>>456254
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0akBdQa55b4

>> No.456319

>>455552
its really boring, you have to learn a ton of stuff and to pay a ton of attention to it to keep making money, and even with that no matter how much you make you can always lose half of it when the stock market tanks. better to just let morgan stanley handle it for his cut of it and focus on whatevers on tv or twitter or watever

>> No.456354

>>456258
no stock has ever had a 10 to 15% return for 14 years. I hate when people give false examples. the most you can expect is a 5 to 7% return if you are lucky and don't have it siphon off by commissions and fees.

>> No.456368

>>456354
but stock prices have grown so much in the last 10-15 years. in year 2000 CHD was only 6 dollars a share, now its ~70, with 3 splits, and those dividends.

>> No.456385

>>456368
there is a concept called volatility which means that even though the price of the stock goes up, that is no guarantee that you will realize the gains when you decide to sell. Especially when your broker can short the stock as you are selling it with high frequency trading.

>> No.456398

financial crisis scared people.

then the big rally pissed everyone off.

so now most people think the stock market is too high right now. If there is a 10% correction, your parents will want t jump in again, you'll see.

>> No.456528

>>455552
Newfag here but been joking around Polse game on marketwatch for over a year and for experience I k ow that if you don't know how the stock market works and how shares gain value you might even lose your house

Once I invested in APPL and the next day I lost like $20k

>> No.456535

>>456398
>financial crisis scared people.
>then the big rally pissed everyone off.

This. A bunch of idiots sold their stocks in 2009 and didn't buy back in until 2013 because that was when five- and ten- year performances stopped being shitty. (excluded the crisis and the tech bubble respectively).

Recently straight stocks have outperformed just about every mutual and hedge fund on the planet excepting based Simmons and Tepper, and so naturally people who are paid to beat the stock market grouse on about how it's overvalued to explain why they suck at their jobs.

>>456304

>m-m-m-muh Japan

You do realize that the Nikkei is:

1.) yen-denominated
2.) price-
3.) equal-weighted
4.) nominal

index, right? In USD terms including dividends, an investor in Japan as represented by the MSCI Japan index in 1989 would have broke even in 1999-2000, 2006-2008, and now, and a Japanese investor would have done even better thanks to the deflation the country's been stuck in for the past 25 years. You'd actually be up a pretty decent amount if you included small caps as well.

>> No.456548 [DELETED] 

Would you star investing in the stock market if:
You had $20k saved up.
No debt.
No passive-income generating assets.
A 9-5 job.
Lived with parents.
Saved 90% of your net income instead of spending it on things.

>> No.456549

>>455552
Because most people can't deal with their money, in the first place.

Also, for busy people, it isn't worth it to deal with stocks, because brokers and other people will siphon money off, lowering your return rate. Pretty much, if you can't manage your own portfolio and you're an average Joe...it's NOT worth it.

Also, despite what a lot of people here tell you, the stock market IS INDEED RISKY for people who are simply workers and don't have money to throw away into the wind.

Stock trading has generally only been profitable for the wealthy/extremely rich who can afford to speculate. Yes, I KNOW there are cases of normal folks hitting it big with smart investment strategies, but they are outliers.

>> No.456583
File: 36 KB, 360x240, lost-savings-bonds-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
456583

Bonds, are they any good? I never hear anything on it. Any tips on bonds?

>> No.456591

The stock market is a scam.

>> No.456593

>>456583

Bond yields are low right now. If you're willing to accept 3-4% on a five to ten-year corporate bond with some default risk, that's fine, if you're willing to accept lots of interest rate risk on super long-dated treasuries, that's fine too, if you're willing to buy a Series EE bond and hold it to maturity that's fine as well. Pretty much everything else will result in you losing to inflation.

Also, don't touch junk bonds. That shit's in a bubble of epic proportions.

>> No.456672

>>455552
People are stupid, essentially. This is the sole thing you missed out on.

>it would make sense to not get into debt over a car, so why do so many people do it?
>it would make sense to budget so you can save for the future, why do people do it?
>it would make sense to not eat another human being's fecal matter, why do fetishists do it?

Never second guess yourself because the majority aren't on your side. In my experience, that's an indicator you're in the right more than anything.

>> No.456754

>>455889
This is my plan. I can imagine gratification curves for people like us and folks like them. There's is high at first but stagnates and declines as they get older and stuck with debt. Ours eventually intersects and overtakes their curve, and exponentially two given the nature of compounding returns.

>> No.456788

>>456145
>be mid-late 2000's
>take economics in highschool
>we use a stock market simulator that's based on the real stock market to learn how it works
>none of us know what the fuck we're doing
>we're given "$100,000" to invest
>ask uncle with masters degree in business what to invest in
>"DUH! Oil, gold and telecom!"
>go back to class, time to pick what to invest in
>look up which companies are newest "because they'll probably grow"
>decide to pick at least one company to invest in that's been around for awhile
>split my 100k three ways:
>invest in a new gold mining company
>invest in a new offshore drilling company
>invest in verizon (lel)
>we're supposed to make a minimum of 10 trades over the course of the year
>i was lazy and didn't trade at all, just lied about it
>end of the year comes
>"Time to cash out guys! Sell all your stocks and see what you've got! The winner gets 50 extra credit points!"
>Ahh whatever i probably lost money
>Sell everything
>I have several million dollars
>everyone else lost money
>all of my wut

I found out later that the gold mining company I invested in hit a huge gold vein and the value of its stocks went up exponentially, people started throwing money at verizon because of new highspeed internet on cellphones and the oil company idk, probably got bought up by one of the big 5 or something. But fuck, I got those 50 extra credit points and didn't do the essay portion on the final and still got an A+. Fuck yeah.

>mfw if it was real life I would have several million dollars
>fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

>> No.456803

>>456354
>berkshire hathaway

annualized, but I doubt your bank account gives a fuck

>> No.456841

>>456803
I like how you name the only stock that refuses to split making it unaffordable to anyone but a rich man.

>> No.456846

>>456841

brk.b

>> No.456933

>>456841

Vanguard's Energy fund has returned over 13% annualized over the past two decades and only requires $3,000 to invest.

>> No.456950

>>455642

It depends what theory of Vienna psychotherapy you subscribe to:

Will to Power
Will to Pleasure
Will to Meaning

>> No.456960

>>455552
people are too short sighted. the stock market is very volatile and most people spend their time in it chasing short term gains. people get a swing of 20% either way and sell even if its only been a couple months/years.

>> No.456979

>>456788

You have luck mate

>> No.457022

>>456841
You're a fucking idiot, see >>456846.

>> No.457080

>>456385
what do you mean? if i buy at 5 dollars and sell at 50, i get 50 bucks in my scottrade account and have gained 45. what am i missing here?

>> No.457089

>>455552
>Then why doesn't everybody in the middle class do it?

Because people like immediate results, and going and buying the $1000 worth of shoes and clothes provides more immediate satisfaction. Most stocks are LT assets that may provide a few thousand dollars profit after years of holding.

>> No.457132

>>455705
1.05^x=2
xlog1.05=log2
x=log2/log1.05=14.206699082890474130320233631856

>>455805
That's not me talking, it is the perspective of the average person. Sensible index funds are a good way for someone to make the market average but the average person would rather buy candy crush lives, cigarettes and overpriced alcohol immediately than invest that money instead and make the market average.

In point 3 I explain how difficult it is to beat the market.

>>456258
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/market_cagr.htm

Annualized returns from Jan 1 1991 to Dec 31 2013 adjusted for inflation = 7.43%

log2/log1.0743 = 9.6714675500346730883994086303996

In the average person's mind it doesn't make much difference whether someone says "give me $100 and I'll give you $200 back in 14 years" or "give me $100 and I'll give you $200 back in 10 years".

>> No.457173

>>456314
Holy shit I love this

>> No.457386

Theres certain investments like bonds from big companies and s&p indexs that are pretty much gurant'ed to generate money.

The thing is you are getting 3-8% a year and you need to invest thousands of dollars and not touch it.

>> No.457392

>>455552
Because it is a gamble and not a legit way of making dosh.

>> No.457394

>>457392
False.

Investing is not gambling.

>> No.457395

>>455570
>Why doesn't literally everyone do this? It seems as much of a no-brainer as as investing into retirement, as far as investing in safe companies go

I don't do it, because I can't find a proper Vanguard ETF in Latvia which would reinvest dividends.

>Forever in a 3rd world country

>> No.457401

>>455575
$200 Seiko won't get you laid with hotties in a club though.

>> No.457463

>>455552
>Then why doesn't everybody in the middle class do it? My parents don't do it, I barely know anybody who does it.
Because people are idiots, the plebs/middle class more so.

>It just seems like if was legitimate, then everybody and their dog would be all over it.
See above.

>Am I missing something here? I mean investing in safe as fuck companies like Mcdonalds and Walmart..Again, barely anybody even does that
See first.
>Why doesn't everybody own stock in McDonalds? Am I missing something here?
See first.

>> No.457465

>>455611
>5-10% average yearly returns
>low
Toplel, are you retarded?

>> No.457466

>>455645
>A watch that will last decades.
An expensive mechanical watch tells time less accurately than a cheap as fuck battery-driven watch.

And unless you hit your watch in the wall every morning, it will stay whole for just as long as a rolex.

>> No.457498

>>456314
>>457173
Does anybody know more about buying the dip?
Can you share any tips?

>> No.457499

>>457498
Just buy the fucking dip

>> No.457501

>>457499
ayy lmao

>> No.458085

hi /biz/
I dont ever come here
Im pretty retarded when it comes to stocks

but I am making a lot of money recently

heres what I did
I took half my money and put it into stocks that are obviously strong good companies that will be around for ages to come (MCD, MO, MMM)
I just hold those for long term, like, years.

Then I took the other half of my money and bought random shit on a whim. NFLX, X, AMZN etc etc whatever. Sold those when they went up a little bit and picked another stock.

lost sometimes, gained most times.
I just pick shit at random and gamble.

am I doing it right

>> No.458112

>>455657
this is exactly how I feel about fucking smartphones

>>455687
and this is the exact response I get every day.

fuck you. smartphones are not at all worth the cost, hassle, commitment required. they're fucking awful and I don't care how hip you feel with your shit phone you can fb on but only for 3 hours cause you got to charge it.

social situations are also dumb now, everyone is just on their phone like fucking dumb animals.

one of my friends has one of those smart watches. interrupts every conversation and takes him about a minute to check the time. my fucking lord.


>nokia c2
$50. + $10 per month in cost.
>seiko automatic:
$3.50

so in about, 25 months, I'd finally spend atleast the cost of an iphone.
>cool :^)

>> No.458127

>>456528
but you'll only lose what you put in.

dont want to lose your house? dont put it in you fucking dolt

>> No.458135

>>455552
They're too poor and uneducated to invest excess money.

They instead spend it on the latest iPhone.

>> No.458204

Know nothing about stocks
Invested all into a s&p index

How am I doing?

>> No.458217

>>458085

What is a lot of money...?

>> No.458222

>>458217
I dont know, in the 3 years or so of doing it I'd say my return is like 12-15%?

counting both capital gains and my current stock values...

I only had like ~$30k to play with in the start though so its not as if I can live off this... its just where I keep a portion of my money instead of having it all in the bank or whatever like the average american OP was talking about

>> No.458226

>>458222
god I write like a retard

just wanted the /biz/ opinion on if my gambling strategy is retarded, thats all

I tried to put in some effort on researching companies but then I gave up when I realized I didnt know shit about picking them.

so now I just go with my gut...

>> No.458240

For every trade you make that earns you money, some chump out there lost some.

>> No.458248
File: 33 KB, 771x473, buy the dip lel.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
458248

If /biz/ was around in the 80's:

>Huge market correction coming
>Just buy the dip
>Stay liquid bro, buy the dip
>a--anytime now...
>f-fuck

>> No.458295

>>458240
In opportunity cost maybe

If I buy a stock from you for $5 and it goes to $10, you didn't actually lose any money, especially if you used the funds to buy something else that went to $15

>> No.458352

>>458248
looks like BTC

>> No.458360

>>455570
...I think you don't realize how poor most people are.

>> No.458363

>>455700
gambling without fixed odds. Rather odds that fluctuate based on market conditions and fundamentals

>> No.458396

>>457463
McD is facing a lot of issues right now. Good article today in the WSJ
-Millenials turning to fast casual stores like Five Guys and Chipotle
-Muh unionizing
-Big McD may be held liable for legal issues at franchises per recent court rulings

At least when they automate everything with robots their operating margin will improve

>> No.458573

>>457401
a $5k watch isn't an effective counter for autism either

>>458360
...or how financially illiterate they are even when they have some money. Everyone thinks they'll just buy houses and get rich off the rental income and capital gains, etc.

>> No.458587

jNXPEJv3 can we chat Via Email? i wanna ask you on what broker you have. and some good long term stocks you should consider

>> No.458590
File: 122 KB, 420x297, fat-american.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
458590

>>458573
Fuck man that is literally my plan right now. I'm reading up but please by all means point out pitfalls to me

>> No.458593

>>458573
Live in Lansing Michigan by the way. Figure that might be relevant since you know. Michigan

>> No.458611

>>458590
>>458593
Flashing a watch to get your dick wet? Or the landlord game?

The following articles are pretty close to how I feel about property:

http://www.jamesaltucher.com/2011/03/why-i-am-never-going-to-own-a-home-again/

http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/05/29/why-your-house-is-a-terrible-investment/

http://jlcollinsnh.com/2012/02/23/rent-v-owning-your-home-opportunity-cost-and-running-some-numbers/

My views on it are probably different to someone in the US since I'm in Melbourne, Australia and shit's still pricey as fuck. It's way more sensible here to just rent and stuff cash into an index fund/ETF. I always saw the landlord thing as something to do after piling up a huge mound of shekels in stocks/ETFs. Maintaining a handful of properties and keeping them tenanted would eat up a lot of time if you're working full time already (and if they're not cashflow positive, what's the point?)

No idea what your local market is like though, maybe the numbers work out in favour of buying a few places and whoring them out though I'd still use an index fund over a savings account while saving up the down payment. My USD account's deposit rate is a joke compared to what I get locally (0.5% in USD vs 2.5% AUD)

>> No.458613

>>458611
I love you.

>> No.458615

>>458613
n-no h-homo, right?

>> No.458619

>>455571
The EU as a whole? Probably.
But if you cut out all the shit bits of the EU that barely have 'stock markets' then I'd say they were pretty similar, but then it depends if you include having a pension as investing, because us britbongs loooooove a good pension

>> No.458630

>>458611
Thanks for taking the time to give such detailed answer.

I'm headed to bed so I've only had a chance to skim through a bit but it seems to focus mostly on home ownership. Which is still helpful because the first property I buy will likely be a duplex so the being both landlord and tenant at the same time is a possibility. Where I live I could currently make a 17% annual return on investment (this does not factor in maintenence costs).

My biggest concern is a steady market, I don't feel confident enough in my ability to recognize a location that will maintain it's value.

lastly, off topic but what bank do you use. Because I would like to throw my money at your bank. Fuck my bank. I've saved up more than enough for a down payment so I'd only be keeping maintenance and personal expense funds in a bank for ease of acces

>> No.458631

Buying stock IS gambling.

However so is putting your money in the bank. What happens if your bank goes bust, and decided to skim the cream of your savings to stay afloat.

Also I'd stay away from stocks until a large correction >20%.

>> No.458632

>>458631
>putting money in a bank
Is gambling that the bank won't go bust.

>> No.458658

>>458630
Yeah, the "my home is an investment" bullshit I think is really just peoples' excuse to spend way too much replacing kitchens, bathrooms, flooring, etc.

A lot of the costs will be the same with using properties as investments. Maintenance, Insurance, Taxes, etc. Some could be greater if there's tax incentives for owner-occupiers or tenants are a higher risk to your insurer. If you're looking at mad long term (decades) and planning to stay in the area then it might work ok if you're buying the right locations (eg: family home in one of the good school districts) that you know you can keep occupied most of the time. Focus on income and don't give a fuck about capital gains like.

But I don't have a clue about your local market or US housing in general. If you can make a sick return then go for it, but remember to factor in all the costs like maintenance, insurance, mortgage interest, etc. to see if your returns still look as good.

I bank with HSBC because they have the best foreign currency services

>> No.458672

>>458611

What do you think about REITs? The Vanguard Australia property ETF seems to be pretty solid, for now at least. ASX code VAP if you're interested.

>> No.458680

>>458672
Your -own- home is an expense. DO NOT EVER CONSIDER IT OTHERWISE*.

Buying a REIT can be a very useful tool of diversification. REIT's can also own property that you, middle class wage slave, probably couldn't begin to play with. First, a REIT has size and location diversity, whereas if you're acting as a slumlord, you're limited to 1 metropolitan area by yourself(without introducing other things into the equation, such as tenant management services).

REITs can also have exposure to other markets as well. Whereas you yourself would be investing primarily in apartment blocks, individual family homes, and duplexes, REITs might be invested in commercial real estate.

Reits are fucking wonderful, but do your fucking homework, like with all investments, and diversify.

*If you plan for your home to be an expense, and find that you were actually wrong and had in fact invested in a growing market in a prime location, smile all the way to the bank, but don't fucking count on it being thus.

>> No.458695

>>458680

Don't REIT's have more susceptibility to the effects of macro-scale things e.g. housing bubble, compared to specific properties/buildings that wouldn't lose as much value in those events?

>> No.458697

>>458672
As I understand it, REITs don't really bother with houses (especially in Australia) and are mainly shit like shopping malls, office towers, etc. Shit I saw one that built clinics and hospitals even.

Might be an alright place to park some loot for dividends?

I have 10% of my super account in the Vanguard Australian Property index fund just to see how it goes, with the bulk in Australian and International shares.

Also, what this cunt said >>458680

>> No.458712

>>458695
Talking about REIT's is like talking about stocks, it's such a broad catagory that you have to be talking about specific industries/stocks.

There are REITs that specialize in buying and selling mortgages with huge leverage, mREITs.
There are a handful of ....datacenter REITs.
There are REITs that focus on commercial real estate.
There are REITs that focus on healthcare/long term care(OHI).

A REIT is mainly just a tax structure, whereby the company DOESN'T pay taxes, but sends ~90% of it's profits to it''s owners.

>> No.458718

>>458712
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_estate_investment_trust#United_States

Specifically
" To qualify as a REIT, an organization makes an "election" to do so by filing a Form 1120-REIT with the Internal Revenue Service, and by meeting certain other requirements. The purpose of this designation is to reduce or eliminate corporate tax, thus avoiding double taxation of owner income. In return, REITs are required to distribute at least 90% of their taxable income into the hands of investors."


"A REIT is a company that owns, and in most cases, operates income-producing real estate. REITs own many types of commercial real estate, ranging from office and apartment buildings to warehouses, hospitals, shopping centers, hotels and even timberlands."

>> No.458747

>>458396
>Big McD may be held liable for legal issues at franchises per recent court rulings
info on this?

>> No.458748

>>458611
>I always saw the landlord thing as something to do after piling up a huge mound of shekels in stocks/ETFs. Maintaining a handful of properties and keeping them tenanted would eat up a lot of time if you're working full time already (and if they're not cashflow positive, what's the point?)

>I always saw the investing thing as something to do after pilling up a huge mound of shekels from working. Maintaing a working portfolio and keeping them up to date with news would eat up a lot of time if you're working full time already.

Propety Management Companies are a thing that exist, and any good property you can easily afford the 8% they take to reduce the time required by an order of magnitude

>> No.458771

>>458747
http://www.natlawreview.com/article/do-you-want-liability-nlrb-mcdonald-s-decision-could-undermine-franchise-business-mo
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/29/mcdonalds-nlrb-joint-employer-ruling_n_5630902.html

The short of it: McDonalds is very responsible for the standards of employment at it's franchises, so the NLRB thinks that it can't shunt off all responsibility to the franchise owners.

This is important as it means that McDonalds workers are less fractured then they think they are.

>> No.458798

>>455889
Invest in a house instead of stocks, dumbfuck. At least, when you'r eold as fuck you can either

1. Live there forever
2. Cash out and live elsewhere forever

>> No.458804

>>457089
>Gaining 5k in 20 years when you could have spent 3k now for whatever pleases you

Why be so cheap? 5k won't change your life..

>> No.458806

>>455560
>full proof

>> No.458819

>>455552

Why people don't invest:
>It takes 20 - 50 years to make real money.
>It takes 3 - 5 years to "learn the game" and how to invest properly.
>Because it takes emotional discipline, when everyone is selling and you watch 10 years of your savings get cut in half, people can get quite daunted and want to sell.
>Because people are lazy and would rather be entertained and spend their money because it's easier.

In other words your parents choose to be middle class, this is a good thing. This means I can get rich one day while people like your parents continue to have to work while making me money because they are trying to maintain a life style they cannot afford.

>> No.458827

>>458798
>Invest in a house
>Invest

Translation:
>Buy a liability that you will be inclined to work towards and pay possibly 50% of the house's cost to the bank as interest alone. When you realize you have to default and sell, you can settle knowing you'll continue to live in poverty for the rest of your life and die from illness.
lel

>>458804
Have fun being poor with that mind-set champ! Remember anything retirement related goes into the stock market and is managed conservatively, in a market correction the stock market tips and people like me rake in more money than any savings could in your life time.

#I'llbePrayingForYouXXX #HashtagHero #DoYouEvenInvest #lelJKyouArePleb

>> No.458838

>>457132

about
>>456258

One might as well invest in a pickup truck for a better ROI. A lot of that would likely be cash too.

>> No.458843

>>455788
How much will you have at 65 if the trend of, say, the past 2 years continue?

>> No.458846

It's endlessly complicated and the simple answers aren't accessible to most people; they don't know how to find answers, because they know there is a plethora of misinformation out there.

You also need a lot of capital for the stock market to be a good investment, the capital can either be money or time.

>> No.458852

>>457401
$5000 will get you lots of prostitutes. If you plan it you can optimalize your investment.

>> No.458863

>>458827
>>>458798
>>Invest in a house
>Translation:
>>Buy a liability that you will be inclined to work towards and pay possibly 50% of the house's cost to the bank as interest alone. When you realize you have to default and sell, you can settle knowing you'll continue to live in poverty for the rest of your life and die from illness.

Don't forget the 10% it will cost you to sell it.

I bitch about $8 for stock trades and these motherfuckers make 6% commission and expect you to pay 4% in fucking closing costs. That is some bullshit.

>> No.458887
File: 148 KB, 671x1006, Trekkie-Borg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
458887

>>458112
They fear their link to the Collective being severed.

>> No.458890

>>458135
Everybody want's an iPhone 6, because they're so bitchin'.

(can't cure pancreatic cancer, though)

>> No.458893

>>458827
>>458863
>Buy a liability
I don't know how shitty your houses are, but damn.

>Paying 50% of the house cost to the bank

Wow, if you are so fucking poor, the banks purposefully give you shitty loans, it ain't anyone fault but yours.

>> No.458896

>When you realize you have to default and sell

Fucking poorfags.

>> No.458904

>>458893
>Implying I would ever buy a house
lel I live in a cheap hotel in the upper west side, why would I want to own a property? All my money goes into savings, investment or my manufacturing business. Unless I rent out a property for half of it's worth then yes I would make more money, until that happens, no thanks.

>>458896
You almost sound mad about being poor ~lel~ with property investments you actually have to do "work" even with a property management company it's more hassle than running a business.

Good luck being poor in your nice house with no real assets whatsoever.

>> No.458906

>>458904
>In 50 years, you will have no house since the price will be up
>You won't be able to rent shit
>You will be alone since you decided not to get a house

What good will that money ever be to you? You aren't making sense. Misguided youth.

>> No.458934

>>458906

lol this fucking guy

>> No.458939

>>458906
>misguided youth
>says the legit retard who thinks housing is always a good investment and that it beats stocks in the long run
Your post gave me brain cancer.

>> No.458977

>>458587
sure thing m8

this is me again (new ID, posting from different location)

dutch623@ymail.com
feel free to email me here
pls no spam
(its my trash throw-away email address anyways)

>> No.459052

>>458939
It doesn't beat stocks. Still has more upsides. (Arguable tho, a dude who bought houses in towns like Paris or Megeve in the 60 is now owner of multi-millions properties)

>> No.459059

>>455552
mods need to ban all these retarded "i'm a retarded teenager who knows nothing, please spoonfeed me /biz/!!!" threads

>> No.459072

>>458906
I still don't understand why people think property is a good investment. The only reason I can think of to buy a house is to rent it out and use the rent to pay off the mortgage. Property is a great investment when rented out because of the rent payments + the increase in property value, but it makes no sense to me why someone would want to buy property just to live in it.

It seems to me it would be a lot smarter to invest in stocks where the return is about 2-4 times higher.

>> No.459079

>>459072
I'm with you. Every argument I've heard in favor of property seems to assume that the value of real estate will just naturally climb higher and never go down. But for me, the clencher is that I work 10 hours a day and I'm lazy. I don't want to mow the fucking lawn or pay to fix my own shit when it inevitably breaks. Seems to me like the cost of rent is worth it just to not have to deal with shit like that.

>> No.459132

>>459079
>>459072
>Assuming you have the dedication to invest the amount of money you would spend on your property for 20 years

>> No.459140

i bought my house in full 4 years ago. i only have to pay property taxes, utilities, insurance, and very little maintenance. it costs me about 4-5k total to live here each year. the rest of my money is invested. i have no worry of losing my house, or making payments, etc. meanwhile my friends are renting or just starting on a mortgage, paying 2-3x what i pay a month as well.

>> No.459156

>>459140
>tfw I am 5 years into a 30 year mortgage and have barely paid off any principle

>I dont even like my neighborhood anymore

>> No.459298

>>459140
>tfw you have your own property and built your own house for a good price and it's set up all nicely for future generations

It's a good feeling, being away from it all. I now invest everything else I earn.

>> No.459303

>>459298
i guess if you have the money up front to do that and plan to stay there forever.

>> No.459326

>>459303
Well, that is true. I do plan on that myself, but I guess it is different for other people.

>> No.459328

Poorfags,

the stock market is a way to keep/grow existing money and not to make money. You invest your money into the stock market so you can outperform inflation and shit.

Trying to make money with the stock market is like going to the casino.

>> No.459349

Where do I go to learn more about investing. I've got roughly 30k in the bank and have always been curious about doing more with it but when I google things like "introduction to investing" I get a bunch of results like MotleyFool who seem like they just want to sell me shit.

Is there a book someone can recommend as a starting point? Even all the jargon involved in the different kinds of funds is daunting.

>> No.459352
File: 19 KB, 413x395, 1407365019629.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
459352

>>459328
>Trying to make money with the stock market is like going to the casino.

>> No.459369
File: 135 KB, 800x1043, 1406171601142.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
459369

>>459349
O-Okay..

>> No.459384

>>459349
there are a lot of 'stock games' online. mostly made by some shady banks, where you can simulate trading on the stock market. generally they seem like a nice way of learning things.

>> No.459385

>>458748
>Propety Management Companies are a thing that exist, and any good property you can easily afford the 8% they take to reduce the time required by an order of magnitude

Nice, if you're talking about owning entire apartment blocks or suburbs. Way too expensive if you're the typical cunt with maybe 3 houses or some shit.

I think you have "try to pick stocks and speculate" confused with "buy and hold for eternity", but most property nuts do. The easy way is to pour your shekels into ETFs and enjoy having free time while not wasting so much on management fees.

>> No.459388

>>459369
buy all CHD and kick your feet up.

>> No.459441

>>455552

because it's hard and you WILL loose money at some point

because of those two things most people don't want to do it

>> No.459756

When all teh boomers retire into nursing homes they will put their homes up for sale. Millenials are too broke to buy houses.

supply & demand, what happens next?

>> No.459919

>>459756
>Millenials are too broke to buy houses
so theyll just live in their parents houses...?

>> No.459931

>>459385
?

http://www.fifighter.com/

this guy has 3 properties (total of 5, he self-manages 2) with them. they're individual units in different cities

>> No.459952

>>459931
From what I read in one of his posts, half his rental income from those places is going to management fees.

Giving up 8% of a 17% gain sounds absurd to me, but maybe the numbers work for him. Looks like he got some really cheap places anyway.

I'm in a very different property market to you anyway, as I said in an earlier post.

>> No.459969

>>458611
Thank you based altucher-linking anon.

I just commented on REITs in otherthread. If buy/rent (the P/E ratio for rentals) is 25-1, just buy a portfolio of REITs that yields 4%. $300K condo that charges $1200/mo? Buy $300K of REITs that yield 4%, or $14000/y. Do it in 401(k) or IRA for tax purposes. (or for Aussie poster, whatever tax-sheltered retirement account that Ausfags have)

>>458360
I sorta do. That's the problem with this cunning plan: kids these days are going to have a hard time raising $300K, unless it's by waiting for their parents to die. Well, fuck, if you're going to wait for that, just rent out your parents' house, assuming they haven't reverse-mortgaged it and drained it of equity to pay their medical bills.

That's one of the reasons I'm skeptical about the prospects for long-term consumer growth. All the disposable income from the 70s-90s is being soaked up. Boomers burn it on medical costs, Millennials burn it on student loans. Where the hell are the consumers going to come from?

But macro was never my strong point, I don't invest on 10-20 year timeframes, and I go to trade with the markets I have, even if they're not the markets I want.

>> No.459974

People don't save a lot of money that could be invested. Most save the whole year to go on vacation for a few thousand dollars.

>> No.459985

>>459349
> Where do I go to learn more about investing.

You're here, aren't you? (j/k, but there are some gems here amidst the lulz.)

The skills you've learned here and in other boards on 4chan will serve you well in investing. If everyone's saying the same thing ("diversify!"), but the only thing that changes is the name of the funds ("OUR funds!"), the right answer is to ask them what "diversify" means and to figure out what's common between them all. Then when one of your co-workers comes in trolling about how you should put all your money into XYZ, you'll know he's either trolling or an idiot.

The jargon's just jargon. Walk into any bank and use terms like "lel" or "top kek" or tell them you're "a newfag who wants to into investing" and that your "portfolio a shit" and you'll either get looks of bewilderment or you'll make a new friend.

But how long, really, did it take you to learn how this place worked? A few days? Weeks at most?

Ever go to a casino? The casino is delighted to teach you the rules for Pai Gow vs Texas Hold 'em poker? They *want* you to know what "the river" means, because knowing how to play makes it more likely that you will play.

Most of the jargon in finance is like that. The guy at Schwab wants you to know the difference between common stock (if it goes bankrupt you're fucked) and preferred stock (if it goes bankrupt you're slightly less fucked), or convertible bonds (you loaned them money, and you get to own a piece of the company depending on what happens later) or a target date fund (a robot decides whether you own more stocks/bonds depending on how old you are) or a sector fund (go ahead and put 5% of your portfolio in the Mongolian stock market)

I digress. The financial services industry wants you to make money, because the more you have, the more commissions/management fees they make. Don't be afraid to ask lots of dumb questions/there are no dumb questions.

>> No.459994

>>455552
Because it's dangerous. One minute you have capital and the next you lose it all. But even more worrisome is that your parents probably don't have enough in savings to actually invest.

>> No.460013

>>458906
Ok, let's play that out... how much Coca Cola was worth 50 years ago?

According to Yahoo, it has appreciated from an adjusted price of .05 cents per share to todays current 41$/share. Or an 82000% increase, dividends not included.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=KO&a=00&b=2&c=1962&d=07&e=27&f=2014&g=m&z=66&y=594

So, let's theorycraft this bullshit out. Median income of ~6900$/year, car prices of 2000$, houses of 30000.
http://local.aaca.org/junior/mileposts/1964.htm

So, let's say someone invested a fucking car's worth of money into Coca Cola.
2000$ x 83000% = 1.66 million dollars, and that's ignoring what DRIP would have done to that.

So yeah, you can keep your fucking house, I'll take my millions to the Bahama's and stay in some hotels.

>> No.460015

>>459132
I do have that dedication.

>> No.460020

>>459349
Yes. William Bernanke's "The Investor's Manifesto".

That can be the first book you read.

>> No.460666

>>456788
>take "economics" in highschool
>don't learn EMH

WELL WELL WELL WELL

>> No.460700
File: 876 KB, 1280x1261, tumblr_m7zqznsoxq1qjoe95o1_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
460700

Help!

Being reading some stuff on becoming FI.

Need to know an equation to help working out my personal circumstances..

Please provide your answer and workings out.

how do I find out the amount of years it would take to reach £421.5k by investing £15k p.a @ 4% interest.

Thanks in advance

>> No.460870

It's quite amusing listening to everyone here bicker about accessories. Honestly if you're over 30 and haven't made your first million yet you've been lazy or ignorant. As for timepieces they say a lot about who you are and if you're going to wear a counterfeit or cheap (under $500) piece of junk you might as well not wear anything unless you're on a African safari or something of that nature in which case wear the cheap as fake items are for fake people. I can almost guarantee my Patek Philippe is worth more than most of the total savings for most of the people reading this comment.

>> No.461100

>>460700
~18.5 years

Function Unit_Step(x)
If x < 0 Then
Unit_Step = 0
Else
Unit_Step = 1
End If
End Function

Function Investment(Primary_Capital, Regular_Deposit, Deposit_Frequency, Annual_Growth, Annual_Inflation, Time)
'Calculate Force of Inflation
ir = (1+(Annual_Growth - Annual_Inflation))
'Calculate Primary Capital Growth
G_PC = Primary_Capital * (ir ^ Time)
'Calculate Loop Constant
Loop_Constant = INT(Deposit_Frequency * Time)
'Run Loop
Sum = 0
Intra_Deposit_Duration = 1 / Deposit_Frequency 'Saves compute time
Dim K
For K = 0 to Loop_Constant
'Time Since Most Recent Deposit, Saves doing things >1x
TSMRD = Time - (K * Intra_Deposit_Duration)
t1 = ir ^ TSMRD
t2 = Unit_Step(TSMRD)
Sum = Sum + (t1 * t2)
Next K
G_RD = Regular_Deposit * Sum
Investment = G_PC + G_RD
End Function

Primary_Capital = 0
Regular_Deposit = 15000
Deposit_Frequency = 1
Annual_Growth = 0.04
Annual_Inflation = 0

Fiddle with time until final result = £421.5k-ish

>> No.461102

>>461100
That's a fucking ass backwards way of doing a simple TVM calculation, learn to code noob.

>> No.461103

>>461102
libreoffice calc is shittastic at macros and I don't have access to any other way of coding at this second, on my phone

>> No.461112

The reason is because back in the day, closer to when your '50's picture was taken, Wall Street made the market seem soo complicated and soo exclusive and that you have to go to Harvard to understand it, while wall street was also promoting the high potential gains of the industry. This was mostly for middle class, upper class citizens to skip leaning for themselves and throw their money at investors and advisers so that they could rip the gains from fees and live off of that. However, coming into the internet age, when information was much more prevalent and info was a single search away, they depended less and less on advisers and starting to learn how uncomplicated it really was while also bringing in other interested parties at alarming rates, to the "now" age where most every middle-class trades themselves, using e-trade for example. If you look at the stock market value from the past 100 years, it absolutely boomed within the last 15-20 years, because how easily accessible it is becoming to do it yourself with the increasing transparency in markets today.

Even though i'm young, I was greatly exposed to the markets at my last job and learned so much in the city.

>> No.461411

>>461112
This.

Also, let's look at the trading/commission structure of the 50s. You phoned your broker. You paid a fixed commission of at least 1% (2% for smaller trades) each way on a $1000 car-sized trade. There were no ETFs, and mutual funds hadn't really been invented; you literally *could not* buy the index.

Even in the early 90s, the first "discount" brokers required either a phone call or an automated voice system, and *they* charged $35/trade, and that was considered cheap.

>> No.461769

>>458222
And think how much time and effort it has taken. Are you talking 12-15% annualized or the whole time?

If you put your money in the S&P500 3 years ago, your annualized return would be over 16%, that is buying one single ETF, once, and forgetting it.

Congrats, with all your time and effort you still didn't beat the market!

And if that 12-15% is your total return, god forbid.

>> No.461843

>>455552
actually, financial money is made out of thin air. That's why many countries banned usury, now and in the past. It leads to all going to shit, also called "capitalistic cycles", which is bullshit, because the rich wont suffer these cycles, only us, the last monkeys

>> No.461848

>>460870
>Honestly if you're over 30 and haven't made your first million yet you've been lazy or ignorant
>lazy
>ignorant
Ok, buddy, so tell us how the fuck do you make a MILLION fucking dollars until 30.

HOW?

If you are so smart tell us. From what I remember, millionaires are a super small minority of overall world population.

>> No.461863

>>461112
>made the market seem soo complicated
It was complicated back then without computers. When was the last time you used the discount rate factor tables in the back of every finance 101 text book, did a regression analysis by hand without excel, or did technical analysis with a slide ruler?

I can complete a detailed analysis of my portfolio in about 20 minutes. If I had to do it without a computer, it would take 20 hours.

>> No.461867

>>458798
>invest
>in a house

Lelelelel, next you're going to tell me to "invest" in a Ferrari.

>> No.461869

>>461863
I think he means that UNDERSTANDING the market wasn't fundamentally complicated, per se (how it all works and WHY investing in the market is good).

>> No.462918

>>459059
Shut up, asshole.
I'm learning, here.

>> No.462939

>>461848
So 1% of the population are millionaires, seems daunting, but wait...

a quarter of americans are under 18
a sixth are negro
half are women

so the real figure is more like 1 in 30, now think, look at the average person, they are flawed, they are lazy and preoccupied, they have psychological problems and emotional baggage, they get obsessed with irrelevant things, they waste their money on bitches and fleeting pleasures, some even give to charity, most only work 8 hours a day on weekdays, if at all, and they complain about it all the time and hate it. What's more is they work for other people instead of themselves.

I don't have the statistics for these things but you are not really up against much. The key is persistence. The first few days you spend trying to figure out how to start a small business it will seem like you aren't getting anywhere, you will embarrass yourself with stupid questions, you might waste money and time on something that turns out to be useless, all the time though you are learning and can do it properly next time and be in a position to try more things.

Eventually you will surpass someone who might beat you in street basketball or score more than you in a math test, simply because you are the only one who is willing to go that far.

>> No.462951

>>462939
This.

Living in a first-world country gives you almost 100% chances to become a millionaire in you have true will and commitment for this.

Having your first million before 30 is doable, but not for everyone since you can wallow in low-paid jobs. Having your first million before 40 is easy though.

>> No.462959

>>460020
Different guy, but thanks. I'll look into that.
Any others?
Like, should I get fucking Investing for Dummies or some shit for a bare-bones, basic, foundational start?
The Investors Manifesto sounds like it could be a touch above entry-level reading..

>> No.462965

>>462959
No, just start with that, or >>462625.
His name is Bernstein, I goofed.

After you've read introductory books, you can head to other sources.

>> No.462969

>>462965
Oh nice. Thanks, man.
Trying to get my first million before 30, here, lol.
I'm 24 and learned about how approachable the stock market is literally 3 days ago.
How are my chances?

>> No.462972

>>462969
>only six years left
>learned about the stock market 3 days ago

You won't make it before 30, unless you have a large capital to invest, or you have your own successful business (or pick something random and have a ton of luck).

>> No.462974

>>460700
15*(1.04^x-1)/(1.04-1)=421.5
Solve for x faggot. It's 19.2 years and >>461100 this faggot is totally wrong.

>> No.462976

>>461100
>Fiddle with time until final result = £421.5k-ish
Jesus fuck, I missed this gem, go learn some fucking math.

>> No.462977

>>462972
That's what I figured.
But I gotta start sometime, and sooner is exponentially better than later.

>> No.462978

>>462974
Lel fucking this, I don't know what that guy was doing. It's a simple Future Value problem. What is this? Highschool Algebra?

>> No.462995

>>462977
Yes. Sooner is exponentially better than later.

Always tell yourself this. Remember that Buffett has made most of his billions in the last decade.

Remember that unlike your peers, who are fucking retarded and spending all their money on vehicles and other discretionary bullshit, you're sweating your ass off building the irrigation channels for a fucking farm that will provide for you for the rest of your life. You're planting a tree from a seed. It won't be much in 5 years.

But it'll be fucking massive in 20 years.

>> No.463772
File: 478 KB, 1920x858, theylive.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
463772

>>455552

>> No.463780

20 years old with 2k to invest, where could I be in 10 years?

>> No.463803

>>463780
$3200 assuming avg of %5 return