/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.3982553]

>>3981018
>Burger
>Made $503,000 this year from crypto.
>Will owe $187,452 in taxes if I sell.
>Only $315,548 left over.

What the fuck. Seriously. I can't psychologically handle parting with that much money. And actually according to bitcoin.tax I don't even have to cash out in order to owe these taxes. Just because I bought shitcoins, that's considered already considered short term capital gains. So where do I get the money to pay this imaginary capital gain? Do I have to liquidate a portion of my portfolio, pay taxes for liquidating, then use the left over money to pay taxes again for the shitcoin trades? Also some of my trades were on btc-e and all records of them are gone. But the DOJ acts like everyone who used btc-e was a criminal. Should I just not report my btc-e trades? But then there would be discrepancies between my bittrex / poloniex trades because there would be alt coins sold that came from nowhere. So maybe I shouldn't report my bittrex and poloniex trades either and only my coinbase cash in / cash out. But then if they ever find my accounts I'd be screwed. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.3982559]

Talk to an accountant you mong

[Anonymous No.3982563]

>>3982553
now you understand why rich people pay plenty in taxes, faggot.

[Anonymous No.3982566]

fuck off with your tax FUD. nobody owes anything for making bittrex trades

[Anonymous No.3982581]

>DARK POOLS

[Anonymous No.3982653]

>>3982553
>cash out via ATM
???

[Anonymous No.3982686]

>>3982553
Welcome to Libertarianism.

[[e-mail] No.3982690]

send me a btc, i'll teach you how to avoid the taxes
3JvgFWFGXDQm4tkgVdTDkXGfmng1BDXdZK

[Anonymous No.3982693]

>>3982553
>wait until salt loans come out
>borrow 100k
>pay 10% per year
>???
>profit!

[Anonymous No.3982701]

>>3982566
Then why does bitcoin.tax consider every altcoin trade a tax event based on the fiat value of the altcoin - cost basis. Also according to IRS tax guidance:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

Virtual currencies are considered property. So alt coin trades would be property for property trades. And property -> property trades are subject to taxes based on the "fair market value" at the time of trade unless they're like-kind trade. And I looked into how to file shitcoin trades as like-kind exchanges and there's NO guidance on it. NO ONE HAS EVER DONE IT. The form to report one like-kind exchange is kind of complicated and it's 2 pages. So it's just impossible with hundreds of trades.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf

[Anonymous No.3982723]

Saltlending.com bro, launches this year and gets around capital gains tax completely and is legal.

[Anonymous No.3982749]

>>3982553
>not being nzfag
sux2beu

Literally just move over here and be done with it. You could literally buy a house in a small town with the tax payment.

[Anonymous No.3982790]

>>3982553
>Live in a technological first world country with ample infrastructure to support electricity and internet
>The companies that provide electricity and internet only exist because they're ran by people who also live in a first world country and they implement, through engineering, science that was funded through the education system and in some way through taxpayer dollars at some point
>Make a lot of money by buying a unit of technology someone else invented whose life was made possible by the very global system of governments supported by tax-paying citizens
>I MADE THIS MONEY ALL BY MYSELF WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY TAXES

Kill yourself you literal retard. You understand that without complex social structures like governments we would still be on the African plains and crypto would not exist, right?

[Anonymous No.3982859]

wtf...crypto is so violate. govt can't expect us to document every shitcoin trade.

we should just pay taxes whenever we cash out to fiat.

[Anonymous No.3982880]

just report it as unrealized capital gains

[Anonymous No.3982882]

>>3982553
Just wait for the tax reform, it's supposed to be retroactive so it will apply to the money you made in 2017. Also, definitely get an accountant to prepare your taxes.

[Anonymous No.3982917]

>>3982790
>attributing human accomplishment to muh big government

kill yourself faggot

[Anonymous No.3982945]

maybe it's time to just put your little coins away and wait for the dollar to collapse

[Anonymous No.3982947]

>>3982553
You can also send me 100k, don't need to pay any taxes for that :)

Damn, my week ass gains from 3.7k to 7k kind of hurt, 6.4k probably right now thanks to btc fucking rising.

[Anonymous No.3982957]

>>3982553
>>Burger
you lose

[Anonymous No.3982960]

>>3982653
theoretically all those atms have cameras inside and they could see your face while you're transacting, I don't think we're there yet but in the future it's possible. Also they all require a cell phone to cash out so if you use your real cell phone it'd be a lot of evidence against you if you ever tried to deny it.

Ultimately you're right, you will get away with the atm method for now, but in the future when the IRS learns more about this shit they will crack down on that.

[Anonymous No.3982965]

>>3982790
Federal income tax accounts for less than 10% of Federal revenue you dumb faggot. The government doesn’t need that money. They could easily cut wasteful spending and abolish the federal income tax but Democrats exist.

[Anonymous No.3982977]

>>3982947
i think you he can deduct ~$15k of that as a gift
so he would still need to pay tax on the other 85k as income

[Anonymous No.3982981]

>>3982977
disregard that first you

[Anonymous No.3982983]

>>3982965
If all of you degenerate red states disappeared we would have a federal surplus

Literally kill yourself, Democrats keep this country afloat

[Anonymous No.3983025]

>>3982553
>Eurocuck
>Never buy/sell BTC
>Low taxes
>Mfw 1 BTC is $6k now
KEEEEK

[Anonymous No.3983122]

>>3982790
Kek, you're in the wrong neighborhood pal
Taxes are necessary sure, but
The whole US tax code is a FUCKING disaster from top to bottom it's a fucking joke you hear me?? A joke! A convoluted, nonsensical, ineffective metareferential loophole-ridden tumor in the ass of God's favorite country. In practice, it's a regressive tax system. Hey why are you posting this on the /fuck taxes/ board anyway?

[Anonymous No.3983186]

>>3982790
Yeah yeah. I would have an easier time with my taxes if the IRS didn't stall for years on clarifying if alt-coin trades are like-kind, and how to report them as such, and they didn't categorize all btc-e customers as criminals. I've withdrawn 0 dollars to my bank account, yet I somehow owe them fiat that I don't have unless I sell coins. Because of their unwillingness to clear up if alt-coin trades qualify for like-kind deferment, they are going to force me to liquidate a huge portion of coins in order to pay for gains that are actually unrealized. Maybe I wanted to hold that portion for many more years, but no I have to sell it and pay for the privilege of having the numbers in my blockfolio.

[Anonymous No.3983205]

>>3982553
Trade into a net loss. Then you won't owe any taxes.

[Anonymous No.3983246]

>>3982790
Yet its publicans fault that minorities are poor i bet.

[Anonymous No.3983250]

>>3982983
delet this
muh economic anxieties

[Anonymous No.3983255]

>Mexican
>Made 4,4000.00 pesos from selling drugs to Americans
>Government takes 3,900.00 in taxes

[Anonymous No.3983258]

>>3982983
No, rich people that made something of themselves keep this country afloat. Id love to depart from you retard socialist states. Then we could see history repeat itself once again.

[Anonymous No.3983287]

>>3983258
>cant present a proper argument
>ad hominem

every single time

[Anonymous No.3983291]

>>3983258
Rich people that made something of themselves by utilizing the market provided to them by the largest economy in the world

You think any of these corporations would be capable of making money without the playing field of the pre-existing economic playing field of the US as a sovereign entity?

Corporations are kept afloat and rich people "make something of themselves" by extracting wealth from less successful people, and those less successful people only have wealth because they live in a government-managed area of land called the US

You're all retarded. Companies could not exist without a government. Why do you think they have so many legal teams?

Remove the government and the companies would have to re-implement all of the services the government once provided. But then every company would have to have its own security group, its own property rights enforcement group, etc. And this is impractical, so they'd outsource it to one company who specializes in these things. And that company would be the new government just under a new name

You're all fucking stupid and have no conception of economics of political theory.

[Anonymous No.3983294]

>>3982965
Income tax is about 80% of the federal governments revenue actually.

[Anonymous No.3983308]

Paying taxes on crypto is for normies. Enjoy staying poor

[Anonymous No.3983314]

Use bitcoin to order drugs on the darknet and cash out your gains that way. Could probs double your money selling them as well.

[Anonymous No.3983355]

>>3982790
>being a statist bootlicking faggot

80% of this money goes either in welfare for niggers, military/mass surveillance toys for ABC agency niggers, funding the extravagant lifestyle of bureaucrat niggers.
There is literally NO good reason why you should pay more than 10% taxes to the government.

[Anonymous No.3983365]

>>3982553
Use bitcoins to purchase goods.

[Anonymous No.3983395]

>>3983308
Well, not even normies pay taxes on crypto. I think I read somewhere that less than 800 people reported taxes last year out of all coinbase customers. But there's no guarantee that years down the line the IRS won't gain access to the records of all trading sites and systematically bust everyone.

[Anonymous No.3983420]

>>3982553
real talk, hire a crypto lawyer. they will advise you on how to save the most money and which gains to report. a 150$ hour long session could save you $80k

[Anonymous No.3983423]

>>3982983
I'm not even a burger and I know why you're wrong

[Anonymous No.3983548]

>>3982566
>>3982701
So... no rebuttal from you "It's only taxed when you cash out" or "alt-coin trades aren't taxed" people? Because I'd love for that to be the case, but it's not.

>>3982880
That's not a thing.

[Anonymous No.3983587]

>>3983423
You're proving his point

[Anonymous No.3983605]

>>3983423
>tfw live in a city that's less than 2% black

[Anonymous No.3983626]

just when i think your shit hole country cant get any worse. They piss on your back and call it rain and the majority of your population eat it up hook line and sinker

[Anonymous No.3984307]

>>3982553
Convert it all to Monero. Nobody will ever know. Make sure you send it to a mother address a few times and BAM. Nobody knows what you have. This is why Monero is awesome, look into it.

[Anonymous No.3984366]

travel to russia, mate, we'll figure out how to cash out this amount of monies

[Anonymous No.3984373]

>>3984366
email me
[e-mail]
you will flight back with cases full of fckn cash

[Anonymous No.3984632]

>>3983395
if your crypto is just sitting on an exchange do you have to pay taxes? you don't have to pay until you convert it to USD right?

[Anonymous No.3984646]

haha thank God in Australia, the only cryptocurrency our tax guys understand is bitcoin

Also I'm fucking off to Singapore once I make bank

[Anonymous No.3984759]

>>3983395
You're best bet would be to open a Swiss bank account and cash out to there, get behind some vpns and dump your crypto earnings in there. Or travel to the country and withdraw that way.

Another option is moving to AUS or NZ our crypto laws a really relaxed as of late and you "can" avoid capital gains tax after 5 years.

Gifting BTC or donating to charity and off writting it as business expense also saves your ass.

P.s. here is a charity address you can send to :^)
bitcoin:1M2T5ZPkBpZ1Y6Ch9XapQosDzuk7y4PaSF

[Anonymous No.3984771]

>>3984646
Ayyy which state now I'm in melburistan

[Anonymous No.3985205]

>>3982553
Freedom don't pay for itself boy.
Now pay those fucking taxes.

[Anonymous No.3985310]

>>3982790
Right now in my country (Canada), families are now spending more money on taxes than they are on food, shelter and clothing COMBINED. We’re looking at about 43% taxes when all of them are taken into account. It’s total fucking madness. This entire tax game is a fucking travesty and people are not receiving back even a fraction of what they’re paying into the system in terms of all of the socialized nonsense that the government continues to just waste our money on.

I’m genuinely worried for the day when I have to withdraw 10 BTC back into fiat and the government comes shitting down my front door asking me for half of my fucking income

[Anonymous No.3985321]

Why do I owe the government anything? It's not their money at risk when I make a trade. Are they going to cover me if lose money? I pay for electricity and internet. I pay income, property, state and every other misc tax.

[Anonymous No.3985354]

>>3985321
Exactly. Does my fucking head in. I already get taxed balls to the wall, yet receive fuck all benefit. I pay for private health insurance in my country because the public is such a fucking shit show unless its an emergency, yet my fucking taxes pay for bullshit administration to piss away the money for our public healthcare system.

[Anonymous No.3985357]

You can sell your coins locally ,dodging any way of the government knowing , I think some exchanges sell amazon gift cards so you could buy a bunch of shit and reduce the tax amount .

[Anonymous No.3985360]

pay up goys, youre not rich enough or connected enough to tax evade

[Anonymous No.3985379]

>>3985310
USA is same, we had a similar report released

[Anonymous No.3985395]

>>3982553
Haha oh wow you burgers really have it bad. It's almost like it's law that poorfags should remain poor.

[Anonymous No.3985409]

>>3985395

[Anonymous No.3985440]

>>3982553
Ok but what am I supposed to do in the UK?

[Anonymous No.3985446]

>>3984759
Can you link RE: Aus laws? Everything I've seen suggests it's just as fucked.

[Anonymous No.3985454]

>>3982559

Actually making money will make you realize how taxation in its current form is theft

You now have to give the government 200k of your money, and all of it is going to go to the military industral complex and welfare

>>3982790

Those companies don't provide you shit. You have to pay for it and they use tax payer subsidies to do stock buybacks to manipulate the values of the companies who the c suite will get million bonuses of those tax dollars

Kys

[Anonymous No.3985734]

>>3984632
>if your crypto is just sitting on an exchange do you have to pay taxes? you don't have to pay until you convert it to USD right?

I wish. No, they're considered property in the United States, so if you trade your property for property such as an altcoin trade, that triggers a tax event between the fairmarket value of the trade and your cost basis for the original asset. The only way to defer paying this tax is to get the trade cleared as a like-kind exchange (or to not report it). But the IRS REFUSES to clarify if alt-coins are like-kind and I've heard of no one that actually successfully reported as like-kind.

>Let's say you buy 100 bitcoin at $1000
>Then the price rises to $6000.
>Your portfolio is worth $600,000, your cost basis is $100,000
>You owe no taxes yet.
>Then you trade the 100 bitcoins for 10,000 shitecoins at .1 btc each.
>The "fair market value" of this trade is $600,000.
>You now owe taxes on the $500,000 capital gain AS IF you sold btc for cash then used that cash to but shitecoin.
>You now fucking owe money even if you cashed out 0 dollars.
>At the end of the year you'd have to sell a huge portion of your portfolio, calculate any taxes for selling then, use the left over amount to pay taxes again for the capital gain when you bought shitecoin.

Yes this is how cucked the taxes are for US crypto traders and no one realizes. Enter a few mock trades at bitcoin.tax, which was created by a professional accountant. What I'm saying is true.

[Anonymous No.3985909]

>>3982559
The typical accountant is almost as clueless as I am when it comes to this issue. In 2016 the American Institute of CPA's wrote a letter to the IRS asking for more guidance on crypto taxation because their current guidance was so shitty.

https://www.coindesk.com/aicpa-irs-bitcoin-tax-guidance/

In section 4 they tell the IRS that they need to clear up this issue of whether crypto trades are like kind AND THEY STILL HAVEN'T DONE IT.

>Section 4, Q&A-1 of Notice 2014-21 states that “general tax principles applicable to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency,” which is guidance that is generally helpful in determining the tax consequences of most virtual currency transactions. However, if there are particular factors that distinguish one virtual currency as like-kind to another virtual currency for section 1031 purposes, the IRS should clarify these details (e.g., allowing the treatment of virtual currency held for investment or business as like-kind to another virtual currency) in the form of published guidance.

[Anonymous No.3985949]

>>3982723
What if I use Salt, borrow 10k with my 2 BTC and BTC crashes to $1k a pop. How screwed am I?

[Anonymous No.3985977]

>>3984307
The problem isn't hiding the actual coins. It's that my identity is connected to the exchanges and you'd have to be assured that the IRS will never get customer records for those exchanges for the rest of your life-span. And seeing how hard they're fighting for coinbase records it seems like it's a matter of time.

[Anonymous No.3985980]

>>3982553

You can buy a citizenship on Vanuatu for 44 Bitcoin to avoid taxes

[Anonymous No.3985987]

>>3983423
>Idaho
>Montana
>West Virginia

[Anonymous No.3986009]

>>3985310
I bet you guys will re-elect that faggot Trudeau anyways

[Anonymous No.3986215]

>>3985734
I did not think was the case but looked it up, it's true. Wtf!!

So I will owe taxes on this shit even though I'm still holding. I got in in March and haven't cashed out a single dollar to my bank account. This is bull.

[Anonymous No.3986263]

>>3986215
crypto will definitely have some tax reform by the time us neets cash out. If not, be assured were not fucking paying a dime to these fucking kikes.

the founding fathers would roll in their fucking graves if they saw the stranglehold kikes have on commoners in the US.

[Anonymous No.3986291]

>>3986009
at least he has a heart unlike DRUMPF

[Anonymous No.3986335]

>>3986215
Yeah, you'd either need a second source of income to pay the taxes or like I said, sell some of your coins, calculate tax for changing to fiat, then use the left over amount to pay taxes again for shitcoin "capital gains".

This is how they make sure even people who only ever barter would still owe taxes in fiat money.

[Anonymous No.3986341]

>>3984759
You are clueless
Do you even know what FATCA is

[Anonymous No.3986413]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/08/15/cryptocurrency-traders-risk-irs-trouble-with-like-kind-exchanges/#7bcd1f5f26a8

CPA claims people are "inappropriately deferring capital gains".

"Taxes are only when you cash out" theory is completely and utterly destroyed if you live in the US.

[Anonymous No.3986415]

>>3985909
why the fuck isn't there so rich neet forcefucking the sec into giving clearer guidelines

[Anonymous No.3986460]

>>3983258
Could you put the corporatocracy’s cock deeper in your ass, please?

[Anonymous No.3986497]

>>3986413
reeeee this is such horseshit. a pox on the tax man!

[Anonymous No.3986560]

>>3986415

Because the big banks don't have enough BTC yet to rewrite the tax laws. When big money has accumulated enough, you'll see those laws change.

[Anonymous No.3986607]

>>3983420
>cryto lawyer
is this a thing?

[Anonymous No.3986616]

>implying any of this matters with privacy coins

[Anonymous No.3986631]

>>3982553

Nice just paid 100k tax

[Anonymous No.3986664]

>>3986616
so i should put all my money in XMR and lock my basement door. do you think the tax man will find me?

[Anonymous No.3986691]

>>3983605
I grew up in a town with 5000 people and only 1 or 2 black people

[Anonymous No.3986698]

>>3982553

You fucking retard. It probably only would cost $20,000 for a tax expert and a lawyer to incorporate as a corporation and backlog your taxes.

Also, just move to fucking Peurto Rico you fucking autist (tax breaks if you live their full time). With $20,000 you could buy a nice house and make the locals worship you as you make it rain.

Also do you even fucking know about tax trusts and tax free income through municipal bonds?

No wonder poor fags stay poor.

[Anonymous No.3986724]

>>3986698
could def get some cheap property there right now. That place got fcuked up

[Anonymous No.3986734]

>>3982790

>he thinks taxes benefit society
>he doesnt realize most of the tax monies are simply wasted on brown people or used to pay off interest on government debt
>he actually enjoys getting fucked over by his jewish slave masters

[Anonymous No.3986745]

>>3986698
I actually thought of moving to PR, but this recent hurricane made me have second thoughts... living without power for months isn't my style...

[Anonymous No.3986759]

>>3982553
>offshore company
>foreign bank account
>cash out there
>enjoy your tax-free money

Since you're a burger it would be somewhat difficult because of FATCA, but still doable.

[Anonymous No.3986806]

>>3986745

Dude. Not only could you afford to make the house above sea level and made of reinforced concrete, you could have generators and solar power.

Then charge the locals exuberant feeds to charge their cell phones.

See that's how you need to think.

If you don't like PR then Costa Rica's not bad.

[Anonymous No.3986830]

>>3986745

Oh. And BTW, you just need to live there for most of the year to get the tax breaks.

If there is a hurricane, just go on a vacation.

[Anonymous No.3986910]

>>3986830

Yeah you right. Is there any more info on how long I need to live there to get the breaks?

Also, is there more info on how Medicaid works there? I'm currently on Medicaid for a disability, but I'm assuming I'll probably lose it when I cash out 6figs. At least if I stay here I'd lose it...

[Anonymous No.3986934]

>>3986631
Nice, just owed 100k tax

[Anonymous No.3987310]

>>3982983

You mean the Red farming states that grow all your food?

[Anonymous No.3987337]

>>3984373
InB4 you torture him and steal all his money. GG honestly, I would do it too.

[Anonymous No.3987350]

>>3982983

Go ahead and cite the source and their methodology

as usual I'm guessing it's riddled with partisan bullshit

[Anonymous No.3987368]

Step 1: don't sell
Step 2: HODL BTC
Step 4: cash out a comfortable paycheck every 2 weeks from your stack
Step 5: only pay capital gains on the amount you're cashing out, which makes each tax payment smaller than dealing with it all in one go

That way, you're not exiting crypto and your stack is becoming worth more. So long as it grows at a rate that's faster than you're cashing it out, you live comfortably and pay less tax than you would by working.

[Anonymous No.3987465]

>>3982553

Pay your taxes you stupid faggot.

You basically took our profits and left us bags and pink wojaks.

This is you tipping the table.

[Anonymous No.3987639]

>>3987465
OP can easily solve their tax problems by buying into LINK @800.

[Anonymous No.3988824]

>>3982553
yeah everything is correct but you made the mistake of not making the trades in a way to minimize taxes. learn from your mistakes, also you should hire an accountant.

[Anonymous No.3989162]

>>3986759
>You are the UBO of the offshore account anyway
>Balance reported to tax authorities
>Fines and possibly jail for tax evasion
>Ass raped either way

[Anonymous No.3989180]

>>3982553
Was about to say "just go abroad for 6 months or whatever until you're no longer required to pay US taxes" but then remembered the US has some of the most disgustingly intrusive tax laws in history and that there's literally no escape for you.

[Anonymous No.3989283]

>>3982553
Sell it slowly year to year you big dumbass

[Anonymous No.3989298]

[Anonymous No.3989336]

>>3987368
That would work but most biz users don't just have Bitcoin and hodl. We buy/sell alts and shitpost in all good fun.

[Anonymous No.3989378]

>>3985310
do we have to pay capital gains in canadia?

[Anonymous No.3989385]

What if you just say someone sent you a bunch of money as a gift? Does it count as capital gains?

[Anonymous No.3989406]

>>3989162
>You are the UBO of the offshore account anyway
So you need to set up a corporate vehicle that lacks a beneficial owner (a foundation would the a simplest example). Or one with nominee owners. Or find a bank that won't demand beneficial ownership information. In this undertaking you're not limited to traditional "offshore" locations when selecting either a corporate vehicle or a bank account. Do you actually think offshore finance is just going to fall over and die because of FATCA and CRS? There's still a plethora of possibilities, especially when considering OP just needs to cash out his bitcoin which is not a highly complicated task.

An actual issue would be records from exchanges being seized by the IRS which could indeed get you in trouble even if you successfully dispose of your stash; I don't know jack shit about that. But claiming it's impossible, even for an American, to open and use a bank account unknown to the authorities is simply bullshit.

[Anonymous No.3989409]

>>3982553
> 15% tax rate in the Euro shithole where I live
Saves you 110k. Minus the (((comission))) for me. Leave e mail if interested

[Anonymous No.3989451]

Cryptos have enough $ to pay for someone to lobby for us. We need our NRA-like group. Maybe get those scientology peeps onboard to look out for us.

[Anonymous No.3989518]

retards....i thought we only pay taxes if we convert it to fait right ?lets say if we dont convert still we have to pay taxes? what happened to loosers will irs pay any tax breaks ?

[Anonymous No.3989544]

>>3982553

retard...what is u r initial investment with that u made 500k

[Anonymous No.3989624]

>>3989518
>>3989544
>calls others retards
>asks them for advice

[Anonymous No.3989625]

pay your share you fucking freeloading NEET

[Anonymous No.3989659]

>>3989451
Capital gains applies to stocks too though, how come no one has already lobbied to lower capital gains tax?

[Anonymous No.3989676]

>>3989406
I'm just saying it's a lot more complicated these days

Let's say you have an IBC with nominee directors and owners. Then you open an offshore account with POA. They would still put you as the beneficial owner no? And probably just report everything because they are scared of non-compliance.

Not to mention CFC laws in your own country of residence would mean you are breaking the law here too.

So you have the option of moving, orchestrating some highly complicated offshore corporate structure (how much would this cost?) or opening a bank account with some non-AEOI jurisdiction (banking in these are not very good, georgia, philippines etc)

Do you have any solution that is not stupidly expensive to maintain for a non-American? could you give practical example, which country etc

[Anonymous No.3989715]

>>3989624

oo boy grown up...r u noob to biz....retard word in biz is synonym to oo my frind in real world.....this biz use all kind of words in friendly manner

[Anonymous No.3989753]

>>3982686
Libertarians believe tax is theft.

[Anonymous No.3989980]

>>3985734
seriously though, how much of a cuck you have to be in order to pay tax on alt-trades?
how will they now if you don't even need veryfication to trade alts, let alone using decentralized exchanges
Fuck em, they can suck my balls

The only case I would pay taxes is cashing out a large amount (to buy a house etc) to the bank, if you already have a house/car and all the bigs stuff, just cash out through local btc/atm and show a middle finger to the IRS fucks, you can live off of cash easily if you don't make any big purchases

[Anonymous No.3990018]

>>3982790
Fuck you

I'm a neet and take taxes from this sick liberal country just to bleed it dry from fucks like you. Stay mad.

[Anonymous No.3990108]

>>3985321
You didn't build those roads you drive on...

[Anonymous No.3990125]

>>3990108
Implying I leave my crypto basement at all

[Anonymous No.3990163]

Ignoring the actual legality can we all agree that taxing crypto trades is fucking retarded and completely shows that any legal system that would treat it as such is fucking retarded?

[Anonymous No.3990197]

>>3982983
>>3983250

Guess where all the blacks live.

Also please stop coming to Texas and begging for jobs you Californiaian and rust belt dipshits

We hate you

[Anonymous No.3990217]

>>3990108
what if he has a job and already pay taxes?
why would he now pay additional tax compared to some normies? is he using the roads more because he decided to invest HIS money into crypto?

fuck that bullshit, they won't see a single dollar from me

[Anonymous No.3990669]

in all seriousness, what is to stop you from doing p2p or local exchanges for small to medium sums of cash? Maybe keep a job or buy a small business that does a good portion of its business in cash, say a nail salon, carwash, landscaping company, ect. Then move the cash through your business and report it as income. Paying income tax and taking advantage of write offs for small business could have you paying less money in taxes in the long run. Forgive me if this is literally retarded. It is something that many of us will have to consider in the near future. The IRS will gladly fuck you right up your ass with a sandpaper dick if they think you've been holding out on them.

[Anonymous No.3990700]

>>3982701
This is surely inconceivable and incorrect - how can you pay tax on assets you haven't realised the cash value of?

Are you talking about this years profit or in total? Can you spread over several years?

But I would advise speaking to a tax professional - if you need to pay north of 150k by your reckoning find one that can suggest ways to reduce your tax exposure, while keeping within the law?

[Anonymous No.3990736]

>>3985949
You just give up the two Bitcoin

[Anonymous No.3990972]

>>3989676
>Then you open an offshore account with POA. They would still put you as the beneficial owner no?
Depends on both the jurisdiction and the bank of your choice. In the Eastern European country where I live they're theoretically supposed to, in practice it's still not implemented and said implementation amounts to an additional form where you're supposed to indicate a beneficial owner/lack of them.

Another solution to the problem that's apparently becoming popular is either appointing a trustee (like a local lawyer) who has POA on paper (thus keeping your name out of the bank altogether). In OP's case, given that they just need an one-time cashout instead of continuing relationship, an old-school stooge would suffice.

>Not to mention CFC laws in your own country of residence would mean you are breaking the law here too.
Of course. What I suggested is a straight-out tax fraud, there's no legitimate way (that I know of) to completely avoid taxation on gains from your personal speculation. The scheme depends on secrecy.

>And probably just report everything because they are scared of non-compliance.

Again, it depends. In the US, where banks routinely pay massive fines for insignificant procedural deficiencies your statement holds true. In Belarus, where there are whopping 4 ML-related prosecutions per year, much less so.

>orchestrating some highly complicated offshore corporate structure (how much would this cost?)

Depends on the level of security you want (the more complicated, the more expensive, but more bulletproof), how much are you willing to do yourself (professional services cost) and how much outside the law are you willing to go (for example legitimate nominees are more expensive than just putting names of fake/deceased/incapacitated persons into documentation like wealthy Russians routinely do). Of course, we're still talking at least four-figure sums, but if that's too much for you, you likely have little need for such solutions anyway.

1/2

[Anonymous No.3990975]

>>3990669
why even bother with starting businesses
As long as you don't deposit large amounts to the bank and keep the cash under your bed the IRS can go fuck themselves

[Anonymous No.3991042]

>>3984759
get that fucking chink watch out of here

[Anonymous No.3991222]

>>3982553
Cash out what you need, the slow drip (<10k$ every 72hr) cash out the rest. Long process, but that won't get reported to the IRS.

[Anonymous No.3991267]

>>3985734
>>3986215
>>3986263
>>3986497
DEHUMANIZE AND FACE TO BLOODSHED

[Anonymous No.3991287]

>>3989676
> (banking in these are not very good, georgia, philippines etc)

It may not be exactly true. For example Taiwan, a non-AEOI jurisdiction, has a well-developed nonresident banking sector. You likely wouldn't think of it in context of offshore finance, but Belarus has surprisingly good financial services, this is where Russian middle class (rich enough to have money to hide, but not to afford complex offshore solutions) banks. There's a lot more such hidden gems, I suspect, and even more will spring out as AEOI erodes the market dominance of traditional tax havens. (and initially I had in mind OP's needs for which even an African bank would suffice)

Also, even jurisdictions participating in CRS aren't completely ruled out just because of that. For example Switzerland does participate, but it committed to actually exchanging information with just the EU and less than ten other jurisdictions. If you aren't resident in any of these, Swiss banking is still available to you.

Another upcoming solution: second residency. Many offshore centres are beginning to offer easy ways to become tax resident in them; since these are so-called Annex B jurisdictions (they send information but choose not to receive any in return) such a tax residency makes you a non-reportable person. For example in Dubai you just need to set up a certain type of company that costs about $300 to incorporate, then you can pretty safely bank in other AEOI jurisdictions - the bank is compliant since it collects data on your tax residency (keep in mind the entire system is based on self-reporting), no information is sent because Dubai is Annex B, and if that ever changes you're still safe since Dubai has no income or wealth tax..

I'm just an amateur interested in these matters and still I've listed enough loopholes big enough to drive a tank (full of mob money) through. Financial professionals likely know about a lot more. Yes, it's more complicated these days, but still doable. 2/2

[Anonymous No.3991338]

>>3982553
you gambled with fake innernet money, getting any of it is fucking astounding to 99.9% of the human population. Like you legit bet on which booboocoins became famous. Take your free money and be on with life.

[Anonymous No.3991597]

>>3990972
>>3991287
Thanks a lot for the advice anon, very useful information here.

I am actually considering changing residency myself to avoid taxes on possible future gains, so not sure if I have a need for any offshore companies or accounts. But like you I still find these things very interesting. I was thinking about picking a non-AEOI country for residency. Do you have any thoughts about territorial taxation and how that would apply to crypto. Would the tax authority claim that the gain was realized locally even when crypto in reality doesn't exist in any particular jurisdiction.

>For example Switzerland does participate, but it committed to actually exchanging information with just the EU and less than ten other jurisdictions. If you aren't resident in any of these, Swiss banking is still available to you.
Do you know where I can see which countries are exchanging with one another?

>even an African bank would suffice
Are African banks generally easy to work with and move money in and out from for foreigners?

Do you have any email address where I could contact you if I ever need more in-depth (paid) advice?

And btw, are you the same anon that recommended Panama companies in another similar thread a few weeks ago?

[Anonymous No.3992227]

>>3991597
>the gain was realized locally even when crypto in reality doesn't exist in any particular jurisdiction.

I believe gain would be attributed to the location of an exchange or if you sold it privately to wherever the transaction took place. Of course, internet activity is a gray area in general and crypto in particular, I'd consult a tax professional from your country of choice.

>Do you know where I can see which countries are exchanging with one another?

OECD has a page detailing the exchange relationships.

>Are African banks generally easy to work with and move money in and out from for foreigners?

Depends on the country. I've heard good things in this regard about Ghana and Djibouti. Beware of onerous foreign exchange regulations (these may rule out some countries like Zimbabwe, you don't want to deal with a floating three-tier currency system), in many of these countries it's also likely a personal visit would be required.

>in-depth (paid) advice?

I don't feel confident in giving out advice, since my knowledge is based on 90% of my own research (read: some shit I've read on the internet) and 10% of other people's experiences (read: some shit a Romanian wannabe gangster told me in a pub). These posts are basically as much in-depth as I can reach, this may sound trite, but do invest in professional advice instead of taking it from a college dropout posting on 4chan at 1 AM. Use my posts as a starting point and not as a definitive guide to money laundering.

>And btw, are you the same anon that recommended Panama companies in another similar thread a few weeks ago?

Nope, I usually post on /pol/ and /r9k/. And I'm not sure I'd recommend Panamanian companies anyway given some horror stories I've read (bearer shares are the best, right? So thought many foreigners who incorporated bearer share companies in the country, only to discover that their "trusted" Panamanian lawyer has forged the certificates and stolen their assets).

[Anonymous No.3992709]

>>3992227
I see, it's probably easiest to just move and not have to deal with possibly shady lawyers etc.

>these may rule out some countries like Zimbabwe
hah too bad, otherwise there could be some opportunity in arbitrage with exchanges there

>I don't feel confident in giving out advice, since my knowledge is based on 90% of my own research
Your advice was at least more useful than 90% of the information from the so called experts on the internet. So thanks

[Anonymous No.3993181]

>>3986341
I don't use US exchanges (except for 1 coin), earn enough to meet the tax threshold. Furthermore AUS only understands and has rules regarding btc.
Another anon suggested that privacy coin which is really good for this kind of stuff.

Finially I'll shill you some bags KORE coin (on us exchange) burns the tokens and constantly changes your wallet address making it so no one can read your balance ever.

Put all that together you burger pajeet hybrid.


>>3991042
>Frederic cosstant a chink watch
Whatever you say D.W. fashion goy
>>3985446
You would have to find them yourself currently driving around if you're still here anon, from memory we have laws for bitcoin only.