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3634968 No.3634968 [Reply] [Original]

>have 100BTC
>fly to Singapore
>open bank account
>open coinbase account
>sell BTC
>withdraw to bank account
>no capital gains tax

problem?

>> No.3634977

>>3634968
Idiot, u need some kind of proof of residence to open bank account. I'm going to use Belgium (tax-free too). Just taking a semester abroad with Erasmus or sthint

>> No.3634980

>>3634968
You're taxes based on your residency, faggot.
That's your downfall.

>> No.3634990

>>3634977
Belgian here, we still have speculation tax, but I'm not 100% sure our government is up to date with crypto yet

>> No.3634991

>>3634977
>>3634980
Australian, with a UK passport making me a non dom UK citizen.

>> No.3634997

>>3634968
just smurf you moron.

>> No.3635000

Depends on the law on the country you're from too.
But yeah many rich people go live somewhere else 6 months a year so they pay taxes in this country.

There are many ways and loopholes, that's not new.

>> No.3635006

Singapore has double tax treaties with just about every western country so they share information with all of them.
If you're depositing into a bank account you're going to get fucked up.

>> No.3635009

>>3634968
besides, you can try to bamboozle the tax man with every money laundering trick you like, in the end you'll be caught by leading a luxurious lifesytle while having a small income.

>> No.3635016

>>3634977
Belgian here. Capital gains tax can only be avoided if you aren't suspected of speculating.
so if you just buy and hold as if its a long term investment you don't need to pay cap gain tax

or do you know something more bout belgian tax system then I do?

>> No.3635019

>>3634991
Pay your taxes, Nigel.

>> No.3635026

>>3634968
>live in germany
>use bought btc to speculate/trade on altcoins for a year
>sell btc on german btc exchange
>pay no capital gains tax because you bought btc over a year ago

i am not a 100% positive this is actually how it works, but if it does, it is the only upside of this shithole country

>> No.3635041

>>3634968
Or instead of cashing out, use your crypto to buy the things you need.

>> No.3635043

Can't you just go to some big ass city and sell them for cash on localbitcoin ?
I can get good prices but would take me years to sell 100 btc. I guess in New York you can be done in 1 day.

>> No.3635047

>>3635009
Shit, if I hit it big enough to afford a luxurious lifestyle I'll take the tax hit.

All I'm hoping for is a few $100k to buy a house and maybe couple of apartments for rental income.

>> No.3635057

>>3635043
Then what? Smuggle hundred dollar bills in your ass?

>> No.3635065

>>3635041
good one anon.

>> No.3635079

>Create anonymous coin
>Keep its value stable
>Work with tenX to make it spendable

This solves the government jew problem. Why isn't nobody doing this

>> No.3635085

>>3635026
haha, yes
but I think if you win more bitcoins trough trading, you have to tax these gains.

>> No.3635091

>>3635026
nice!
i will come to your country as a refugee to get a residence and sell my shitcoins

>> No.3635095

>>3634968
There's no problem unless you're unfortunate enough to be from the USA.

>> No.3635098

You can do that with 1BTC, sure.

>> No.3635100

>>3635079
>Keep its value stable

tether does that...but it feels like a fucking scam. i mean, i understand that it works when bitcoin value goes up, but how the fuck do they manage to keep it at $1 when the value suddenly drops down massively?

>> No.3635110

>>3635019
fuck off cunt

>>3635041
>implying

>>3635098
australian, non dom uk citizen. what do i do then anon?

>> No.3635113

>>3634990
>>3635016
Also Belgian, the speculation tax has been been scrapped since January 1 2017 you dumb fucks.

>> No.3635123

>>3635110
meant for >>3635095

>> No.3635125

>>3634968
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-26/singapore-cryptocurrency-firms-facing-bank-account-closures uninformed fag

>> No.3635132

>>3635113
HOLY FUCK I CAN GAMBLE AGAIN.

>> No.3635139

>>3635113
So we pay no taxes if we cash out?

>> No.3635142

>>3634968
yea its not gonna work lol

>> No.3635152

>>3635139
that's what it means. you can just declare it as income on your tax sheet and you pay 0tax on the income.

>> No.3635156

>>3635123
Maybe better to start a company in somewhere like BVI and sell the Bitcoin through the company.

>> No.3635161

>>3634977
>>3635113


Also if anyone is interested in setting up a belgian company with me as to profit from the no capital gain tax. Hit me up.

>> No.3635168

>>3635152
Fuck i never knew lol, thanks anon, finally our country is good at something

>> No.3635182

>>3635100
;)

You'll see when the giant ponzi scheme comes crashing down.

>> No.3635216

I’d say just slowly liquidate them by having multiple bank accounts and converting them to USD a few hundred dollars a week. Do it over a long period of time. Small transactions arouse less suspicion.

>> No.3635217

>>3635100
tether is fiat in practically every way

>> No.3635218

Sometimes I'm grateful I was born in a failed state fiscal paradise and I don't have to deal with this shit

>> No.3635234

>>3634968
Gambling Day cruises to international waters?

>> No.3635236

>>3635125
sgd-btc trader here
this definitely accounts for my exchange sgd/btc volume suddenly going x5 this week.
luckily my exchange is jp based

>> No.3635252

>>3635132
>>3635139
It's not income. Because income is heavily taxed. There is just no Capital Gainz Tax in Belgium and it has been ruled there is also not VAT applicable on cryptocurrency.

The only thing which they might try to squeeze money out of you is claiming it is a movable asset and the money you made out of it is seen as some sort "dividend" interest or whatever. In such a case a 30% applies.

Keep in mind while there is no Capital Gains Tax is Belgium you do get taxed on money you make out said fixed, movable assets in the for of dividends, interest, ...

But yes, there is no capital gainz tax on stocks either. So you can buy a stock for 100$ sell it for 1000$ and keep your 900$ in profit. Keep in mind that there is a small trade tax of 0.27%.

>> No.3635261

>>3635026
it's not how it works. You're supposed to pay tax on every profitable trade dude. The 12 Months tax free this only works if you don't touch the crypto for 12 months. If you use them to trade other alts you need to pay tax on every profit you make with that. Also, just go to a BTC atm (netherlands border for example) and cash out without stupid banking acc. Finanzamt will never see this this way.

>> No.3635282

>>3635110
Nige. There's a (((double taxation treaty))) between Aus, UK and Singapore. If you deposit 4 million in a Singaporean bank account, regardless of the passport you use to open it, your details will be sent back home base and you will be get your shit pushed in.

Singapore is not the Cayman Islands, retard.

>> No.3635283

>>3635252
So i would have to pay that tax for every Trade on a crypto exchange i ever made Profit on?

>> No.3635292

>>3635282
so what you saying is i should fly to the caymans instead and sell there?

>> No.3635294

>>3635283
yes.

>> No.3635301

>>3635294
good thing bittrex keeps logs of your trades then

>> No.3635344

>>3635292
OK, you've only got 100BTC, not 1000 so it's only $400k. Not enough to warrant a Cayman Islands solution and Singapore isn't your friend when it comes to keeping your transactions anonymous.

>> No.3635373

>>3635344
it is when australia will take almost half of it.

i just realised singapore has no bank secrecy laws but most of the caribean do, and wont snitch on you. The caymans are ideal, it appears theres massive demand for BTC, people buying in cash and its easy to deposit cash into a legit caymans bank.

>> No.3635386

Have fun next year with aeoi. Ecpect a call from your local revenue service . It's called tax evasion.

>> No.3635391

In Denmark you dont have to pay taxes on crypto gains

They decided it is like if you buy a painting and sell it with profit, where you dont pay tax on gains either

>> No.3635393

Why not just use localbitcoins.com and buy cash?

Or only cash out small amounts, like below 2000$? You realize government can't see the balance on your bank account, right?

>> No.3635397

>>3635301
good thing you can still cash out money at bitcoin atms without linking anything to your bank account anon

>> No.3635407
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3635407

>>3635386
have fun next year in the office, expect a call from Mr silverberg. its called getting wagecucked!

>> No.3635413

>>3634977
>I'm going to use Belgium (tax-free too).
WOOOOOT
SOURCE

>> No.3635425

>>3635407
He thinks what he do is legal. Well its not. Unless he already live in a country without capital gains tax.

>> No.3635434

When you opened the singapire account u will have to give them yiur tax residency where your balance and transactiin till be reported annually. Its an obligation from OECD

>> No.3635453

So thinking they won't find out is stupid. Simplest solution would be to open the account with your name in another country utility bill. Say you are trench citizen and live in France but have an apartment in Spain you can use the Spanish bill to prove residency and it will be reported to Spain instead

>> No.3635458

>>3635397
Where are these Bitcoin atms in Belgium located? Never seen one before

>> No.3635460

>>3634990
>>3635016
Hello fellow Belgians

>> No.3635466

>>3635460
Sup Senpai, posting from phone now so different ID

>> No.3635470

Sorry you are new rich and stupid you will find out the hard way with 40% penalty tax. You will learn eventually when you get a grip and are not up there on your clouds with your uptightness

>> No.3635480

>cashing out all your BTC to fiat
FUCKING WHY? I don't get this. Just use small amounts and you're good to go, no gov/bank cares about 2000$ deposits.

Well unless you want to buy expensive shit like lambos. In this case just do cash exchanges and ``launder the money'', it's piss easy. You can't really avoid paying taxes here, since all laundering requires it, so you might as well pay your capital gains tax. But only do it on huge amounts that you need to buy property/expensive cars/jets with. You can still save plenty of money this way.

>> No.3635488

>>3634968
>have 10,000 BTC
>buy the IRS
>cash out tax free

>> No.3635506

>>3635283
No, other people are mostly lying salty Americans. What happens is it is regarded on income and you get progressively taxed as that.

I have been doing some more research and even though there is no Capital gains tax there are 3 other issues.

1. Buying and selling on a regular basis makes you a trader (so not only buying). Which is regarded as income and taxed.

2. The state may still rule you are "irresponsible" with your money and not a good housedad. (Weird I know) In which they will still try and classify is as income. (So taxes)

So do not trade very regularly. (Or even better only buy) And wait until there is more clarification about cryptocurrencies and what is regarded as good house dad in such a case. In stocks its more specifically defined. But in crypto it is not. So of course they will try to always say "you are not a good house dad".

>> No.3635518
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3635518

>>3634968
>tfw it's cheaper just to pay the taxes than to fly to a tax-free zone
Being a coinlet is worse than being a manlet.

>> No.3635530

>>3635506
However unlike Americans you are free to trade between cryptocurrencies and make gainz. (Since no capital gainz tax) It is only seen as I come if you cash out and use it for stuff. Something can (obviously) not be not seen as income if you not actually make any income from it.

>> No.3635540

>>3635016
>if you just buy and hold as if its a long term investment you don't need to pay cap gain tax

What time period are they counting though?
Is it between the date of deposit into a crypto exchange and the date of withdrawal?

Or are they going to go over all the shitcoin trades you make after you first buy bitcoin?

>> No.3635563
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3635563

>>3634968
>withdraw to bank account

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_2Jh3gdCws

>> No.3635646

>>3635391
Wtf? That's exactly like germany.

However they see the trading of crypto or art as labour if done within a year. And a nice 45% income tax then applies.

Therefore I moved to switzerland. No cap gainz, but if you trade too much you might be billed as a professional (just like in belgium and the netherlands) and pay income taxes on your gains. 30-35% in switserland, 50% in belgium -netherlands. Will try to start a trading firm in switzerland, move some monies there and trade away with a 15% tax.

So be carefull belgian senpai's!

Sauce: belgian, living in switzerland working in germany who got paranoid from european tax rules.

>> No.3635689

>>3635646
I can't possibly be categorised as a profesional trader if I hold a full time other job too.

also I've read a shit ton of topics on belgians that had to go to court, who made millions on buying bitcoins in the early days.

all of them could keep their millions without paying any taxes.

>> No.3635699

>>3635646
Ho shit we good my Gallic bro. All those crypto gains will go straight to my cosy little belgian bank account while those muricans get raided by the IRS

>> No.3635720

>>3635646
So let's say that i trade a bunch of shitcoins this year and don't cash any of it out, granting me more btc in the long run, then i hold said amount of Bitcoin for a year or Longer, im not subject to any taxes?

>> No.3635721

>>3635689
Any sources? Belgians going to court...

>> No.3635740

>>3635720
I think you are yes.
Taxable event is the trading of shitcoins.
Wether you then trade it for Bitcoin, Euro or collosuscoin and hodl doesnt matter.

But i think you need to trade pretty often to be categorized as a pro.

If its a lot of money, go talk to an accountant that knows bitcoin a bit.

>> No.3635754

>>3635740
Im talking about less than a Bitcoin in Total, let's say i make trades like once a week

>> No.3636367

>>3634990
>Enjoying your shitty roads belg?

Dutchfag here, we have 1.2% tax on capital gains. Come here, unless you are non-white or non-Western, then you are not welcome.

>> No.3636500

>>3636367
Nah i'm from Antwerpen, last gf was dutch though. But I'd rather stay in my shithole for now

>> No.3636684

>>3636500
Is Antwerpen as shitty as people say it is? Like completely filled with Muslims and other colored trash?

I mean I am honestly not trying to be rude but I've been to Belgium/Antwerpen a couple of times and I always thought: Jesus fuck what a shithole.

And as a Dutch person we have obviously always been told that Belgium is lower tier NL. That being said, Amsterdam is a shithole as well, fucking tourist trap.

>>3635740
88M CV2 HODL TILL MOON

>> No.3636852

>>3635079
hey I have a shitcoin I created in 2014, I have like 10 million of them at this point. nobody else is mining them except me but how can I make this happen

>> No.3636961

>>3636684
Antwerpen is great dude, lots of bars, strip clubs, cheap and expensive food, whatever you like. You should visit some time, it's not as bad as people make it out to be. That being said, you'll notice our infrastructure is fucking shit tier compared to NL, that's probably what your friends noticed most of all. And yeah, we have lots of immigrants in big cities, but by staying in the nicer areas you generally avoid them anyway. Not very different from Rotterdam or Eindhoven in my opinion

>> No.3637043

>>3635100
Because its tethered to the dollar not btc. As for a technical answer idk.

>> No.3637115

>>3636961
Oh nice. Literally never spoke to an Antwerper regarding Antwerpen, always just heard it was shit from peeps who went there for a short period. Klinkt cool, thx anon <3

>> No.3637145

>>3637115
My pleasure dude, I hope you visit some time! Just stay away from the pajeets and ahmeds trying to sell you cocaine in the back allys and you'll have a good time!

>> No.3637223

If I ever get crypto rich, I'm just gonna go see a financial advisor and ask what the best course of action is

>> No.3638114
File: 22 KB, 538x537, 1506134452350.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3638114

>>3634968
No. OECD has forced every tax haven to comply with the automatic exchange of tax information. Meaning that the Singapore bank is required to report your funds to the country of which you are a citizen, for tax purposes.

What you need to do is open an offshore company in Panama, BVI, or states in which there is a low or zero tax. When you register this company, you pay a law firm a one-time fee of about $3000, and a yearly maintenance fee of about $1000. They'll then set up the company for you in the jurisdiction, and act as both Director and shareholders (to make it 100% anonymous). You will be given power of attorney so that you can manage the companies' funds.

When you've opened that company, you open a corporate bank account in states like Curaçao, Singapore, Hong Kong, etc.

There you go. You now have a company that is legally owned by a law firm in a nation with a 0% tax rate. You control all of the funds through POA.

This is how people with money do it.

>> No.3638336

>>3638114
Open this company... With Bitcoin?

Also, do you need a legit/nominal purpose for this business or does everyone there know the deal and just registering an LLC is fine?

>> No.3638354

>>3634997
Care to elaborate?

>> No.3638388

>>3638354
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/smurf.asp

>> No.3638517

>>3638336
>Open this company... With Bitcoin?

No, the lawyers won't accept Bitcoin... Liquidating $3000 of your BTC without alerting the tax authorities isn't fucking hard.

>do you need a legit/nominal purpose for this business
You always need to choose a category when registering the company, but it doesn't have to be legit. 99% of people who use this loophole register as holding or investment companies. Which is what it really is.

>> No.3638559

>>3634980
>>3635006
>>3635009
>>3635282
>>3635386
>>3635434
This

>>3634968
How many times are you going to ask this question? No it doesn't work like that. The only way to legally avoid taxes is to actually move to another country that doesn't tax crypto. Then you also need to make you are not tax resident in your own country because several western countries try to tax their citizens for years after they leave.

Now that you are tax resident and actually live in the new country, you can cash out to a bank account without having to pay tax


>>3638114
But how do you get the crypto that you already own into this company if the company doesn't do anything? How do you explain source of funds?

>> No.3638593

>>3638517
Cool, thanks for the tip

>> No.3638637

>>3638517
>Liquidating $3000 of your BTC without alerting the tax authorities isn't fucking hard.
go on...

>> No.3638656

>>3638559
>How do you explain source of funds?

You liquidate the BTC on an exchange or OTC exchange, you withdraw the money to your corporate bank account. The annual reporting to the government where your company is located is nothing like in the US or Europe. It's 1 fucking page, and the law firm takes care of that. They write down the amount you've made, and they attribute it to investments.

That fucking easy. There's no need to hide when the government in which your company is placed has a 0% capital gains/income tax.

>> No.3638679

>>3638656
>There's no need to hide when

Obviously don't be a dumbass and attribute your annual profits to drug dealing if that's what you do. If you start a holding/investment company, they'll expect you to make money through investments. Cryptocurrencies are an investment.

>> No.3638710

>>3638637
That one's so easy I'm going to let you figure it out yourself.

Tax havens, OECD rules and bank secrecy laws on the other hand, I can understand people need a little bit of help with.

>> No.3638722

>>3638656
Do you need to physically go to the country to do this?

>> No.3638736

>>3638710
>That one's so easy I'm going to let you figure it out yourself.
No really. It has to go to a bank account in your name, so what's the dealeeoh.

>> No.3638762

>>3638722
Not to open the company. But recently stricter KYC/AML were imposed on banks by OECD, so you'll be required to be present when you open a bank account in say Curaçao, Hong Kong or Singapore.

Also, make sure to research which banks allows for someone with a POA to open the account on behalf of the company, and which banks require the CEO and/or one shareholder to be present. It's like a 50/50, and easy to get burnt.

And be vary of the law firms you'll find through Google that are offering offshore company registration. Do your due dilligence. Some of them suck ass.

>> No.3638766

>>3638736
Anything under $10k at once isn't a red flag

>> No.3638774

>>3638736
Think harder.

>> No.3638796

>>3638656
thanks for the info. But just to be clear, there is no need to actually have any proof that your company bought these investments? You can just use any investments that you personally own and liquidate them and then claim the company made profit without having the proof that the company bought anything, is this correct?

>> No.3638821

How do you protect yourself from ID theft from something like the Equifax breach? Just hire some specialist team?

>> No.3638832

>>3638796
>there is no need to actually have any proof that your company bought these investments?
Nope.

>You can just use any investments that you personally own and liquidate them and then claim the company made profit without having the proof that the company bought anything, is this correct?
Yep.

Take Panama as an example. And this is why I'm telling you to open a bank account in Hong Kong, Singapore or whatever. Somewhere that isn't Panama.

Panamanian companies have no, read that, NO reporting requirements on their OFFSHORE earnings. Meaning every dollar that comes into your Singaporean corporate bank account is between you and the bank. No one else.

>> No.3638846

>>3638821
none, unless youre a super hacker the day you were born and knows that you cant use the internet and your parents are also hiding their identity and didnt register you for anything theres no way youre totally anonymous

>> No.3638869

>>3638832
I'm out, boys.

Welcome to financial heaven without taxes.

>> No.3638915

>>3638832
Thanks a lot anon

>> No.3638990

>>3638774
pls anon

>> No.3639020

>>3638915
Came back for one more thing. Research the laws in your country in regards to having assets abroad. If it's illegal not to report it you'll have to find out if you want to commit the crime.

>> No.3639132

>>3639020
I have one more stupid question if you are still here

You said that the company should be legally owned by the law firm. Is there any risk that this law firm could then legally take/steal the company's money?

Are you a lawyer btw?

>> No.3639137

>>3639132

I'm also wondering this.

>> No.3639179

>>3639132
Power of attorney status should cover this, but also curious

>> No.3639207
File: 1.80 MB, 3264x2448, IMG_1391.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3639207

Cant you just cash out at a BTC ATM nearby and hide the money under your mattress and use it for groceries rent. etc. not for lambos. how easy would be it to manage it wisely?

>> No.3639212

>>3639132
>Is there any risk that this law firm could then legally take/steal the company's money?

I've never heard of any cases where that happened. There are hundreds of law firms which specializes in this sort of thing, and they all have tens of thousands of clients. Choose a respectable law firm, and the chance of that happening is zero.

I'm a banker.

>> No.3639262

>>3639179
Since the law firm would stand as CEO and shareholder, they'd technically have access to all of your assets. But think of it this way; it's like putting money in the bank. You entrust them with it. The respectable law firms stand as shareholders for thousands of companies, most of which have $25M and above in assets, including drug cartels and the like.

Remember the Panama Papers? The one thing the two founders of Mossack Fonseca was afraid of wasn't the law. They were scared shitless of some notorious Mexican druglord who had the arrangement above.

>> No.3639281

>>3639262

Any law firms you would recommend?

>> No.3639322

>>3639262
Yeah I get it now, the consequences would be far greater than any gain from doing something like that

>> No.3639327

>>3634968
US banking laws are the most draconian in the world doubt you could open an account anywhere without direct IRS report, probably even more scrutiny because of foreign

tl:dr you aren't escaping the IRS squid

>> No.3639330

>>3634968
>Be KING
>Implement NO TAX for KING
You will be in trouble

>> No.3639338
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3639338

>>3639207
What happened to the rest of your piss bottle?
Just wondering...

>> No.3639352

>>3639281
In Panama I can think of Delvalle & Delvalle, Mata & Pitti and Mossack Fonseca.

Despite the Panama Papers leak, Mossack Fonseca is still the most professional one in the business. And they've set up a new structure to make future leaks extremely unlikely. Lightning rarely hits twice, etc, etc.

>> No.3639368

>>3639338
lmao i live in a nice white upper class community that ain't my junk. if i could convert this gain into food money for years i would save so much

>> No.3639374

>>3639352

Do you know of any firms that specialise in BVI incorporation? Their corporate taxation laws are quite favourable...

>> No.3639410

>>3639374
Not any that I'd feel good about recommending. But if you do some research online, I'm sure you'll find out which ones are worth their salt.

>> No.3639415
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3639415

>>3639352
MFs name was pretty heavily used in the news back then, don´t you think that they might step into the spotlights of a nearby IRS type of agency?

Also, what about establishing your own Foundation? This is the politician way of rearranging funds. What do you guys think?

>> No.3639426

>>3639410

I will, thanks Anon for giving us this information.

Down with taxes and down with the state.

>> No.3639454

>>3639415
>don´t you think that they might step into the spotlights of a nearby IRS type of agency?
MF is safer than ever.

>Also, what about establishing your own Foundation?
What would the purpose be? If you're going to take bribes, sure, that would be one way to go. But if you're just investing, it is a hell of a lot easier to just incorporate in a tax haven without reporting requirements. With a foundation you'll drown in paper work, with zero added benefit.

>> No.3639510

Now I really have to go.

One last friendly tip to the few ones fortunate enough to be in this thread. Get rid of your ChainLink before Oct 16th. What everyone thinks is about to happen, isn't.

Cheerio.

>> No.3639580

>>3634968

Dumbass, just buy Nigeria citizenship for 100k, it comes with a diplomatic passport, citizenship and a PhD.

>> No.3639682 [DELETED] 

>>3639454
Thanks for the insights, bro. I guess i have to read more about all the options. One might consider mixing up some of these if there is actually enough volume that could make it worth all the trouble.

>> No.3639695
File: 49 KB, 350x227, imäge.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
3639695

>>3639454
Thanks for the insights, bro. I guess i have to read more about all the options. One might consider mixing up some of these if there is actually enough volume that could make it worth all the trouble.

>> No.3639854
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3639854

You meanies.
Tax evasion is immoral.

>> No.3639891

>>3639510
KEEEEEK
yall got BLACKED

>> No.3639990

>>3639510
What did he mean by this

>> No.3640008
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3640008

>>3639854
Thanks for reminding us but keep in mind that all of this was purely fictional.
We just pretend to be meanies, hun.

>> No.3640412

>>3634968
Doesn't capital gains only occur if you've held over a year ? No one here has iron hands