/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.306328]

What's the reason for this /biz/?

[Anonymous No.306330]

>inb4 muh gold standard

[Anonymous No.306351]

you don't pay machines silly

[Anonymous No.306361]

automation

[Anonymous No.306363]

>>306328

Increasing economic rents paid to industries with effective monopoly status. For instance, close to a trillion dollars a year are spent on pharmaceuticals that cost perhaps a twentieth of that to research and manufacture, hundreds of billions on entertainment monopolies through copyright laws, and most importantly financialization that charges more than the value added. M&A activity was estimated to increase productivity by $40bn per year, yet somehow M&A bankers get paid $85bn per year in total.

Growing managerial and CEO compensation does play a small part, but it's much less important than the effects of rent-seeking behaviors across industries.

[Anonymous No.306372]

>>306361
This and tax loop holes/low taxes on the wealthy

[Anonymous No.306393]

>>306361
The world is going to be a strange place when most low end jobs get automated and we're left with a large population with no means to make money besides drugs/prostitution/crime.

[Anonymous No.306402]

>>306393
Some middle class jobs are going to be phased out as well.

But you know, according to all the freemarket paultards and libs, every machine is going to need an operator at 1:1 so we'll be fine.

[Anonymous No.306404]

>>306351
>>306361

Yeah, because we all of the sudden invented machines around 1975.

[Anonymous No.306412]

compoopers happened

[Anonymous No.306417]

>>306404
we created self-sustaining capital, human input is not a sole factor anymore

[Anonymous No.306421]

>>306351
>Be on london underground
>machines doing almost everything
>for some fucking stupid reason they haven't automated the drivers yet making £40k-90k a year who do absolutely nothing but sit in a chair
>no staff layoffs despite machines running the place
>the extra staff are now on platforms wandering around doing fuckall and shouting instructions on how to step onto an underground train through loudspeakers

supposedly the super markets that now have self service still kept their staff.

What I don't understand is, how can the general public cry and complain that they are being replaced by machines....when they worked for PRIVATE companies.

If I start an online business that is completely automated should I be expected to hire several random people to do absolutely nothing?

what the fuck

[Anonymous No.306429]

>>306421
>What I don't understand is, how can the general public cry and complain that they are being replaced by machines....when they worked for PRIVATE companies.

Which is how minorities get hired. If you don't have a certain quota of them in your company you face fines.

[Anonymous No.306434]

>>306429
the minorities in the uk are on average better educated than the natives, and have a harder work ethic due to living on less, and not living an entitled layabout lifestyle.

Construction companies tell british workers to fuck off and hire the pollands in droves, they say english workers take 15 tea breaks, pollaks take none.

[Anonymous No.306435]

>>306421
Yeah man, fuck everyone who can't get a job. I'm going to completely automate my business and the lower/middle class who now have no wage are going to keep my business afloat.

[Anonymous No.306441]

>>306435
you idiot, put yourself in an employers position

why on earth are you going to care about unemployed people or the state of society.

You're one among millions who are all competing against each other scamming and bastarding as hard as possible to get as much money as possible.

If slavery wern't illegal you would have slaves,

but this is beside the point. More clearly, if your business doesn't require people then you ought to have no obligation to hire them,

why would you hire useless extra workers just to give them free money so they can then pay you back a small % of it by buying your goods.

[Anonymous No.306445]

>>306434
Yeah and that's fucking your country in the ass just like it is in Canada. It's a race to the bottom in term of wages and all the citizens in the country get screwed in the middle/lower class. You have a worker who is willing to work 24/7 with no breaks and half the wage, he isn't a worker he's a slave.

Same thing happened here in Canada and is now a big scandal: companies were hiring using temp worker program and giving all the shifts/hours to the temp migrants while keeping the lowest possible ammount of Canadians and giving them lowest/shittiest hours.

Then they claimed that immigrants were just harder workers and it's why they choose to hire them.

After an investigation happened the exact opposite came to light:

the workers feared deportation so they worked all shifts, sick or health, that their owns told them to. Plus the "good" money they were making was a lie, more than half of their every pay check went straight back to franchise owners who rented out apartments/houses and shoved the workers in there like rats (and if any worker wanted to move the franchise would pull their visa and theyd get insta deported).

All this was doing was feeding huge sums of money to the rich owner and fucking the Canadian citizens as well as the immigrants.

[Anonymous No.306453]

>>306441
See, you're reacting emotionally because you're greedy and see only the short term benefits of your actions.

If you thought for one second about what I said, you'd realize that eventually your actions will cause the economy to grind to a halt, which will affect you as a business owner down the line.

Unless we're looking at a basic income in the future, you'd better start making some robots who earn their own wage, or you're not going to have any customers.

[Anonymous No.306459]

>>306441
Its like you've taken "profits before people" and made it your life paradigm.

Yeh no shit, we get the logic of business as a cut throat entity with no ethical obligation, in the real world however other people want some resources too.

Think before you speak.

[Anonymous No.306467]

>>306459
>ethical business practices

[Anonymous No.306475]

>>306453
lower operating costs and competition will mean the goods cost less to match the lower wages/purchasing power

[Anonymous No.306485]

>>306475
Wages from where?

[Anonymous No.306499]

>>306485
from the jobs that aren't automated,

sure in some hypothetical future we will have AI with 10^99999 x greater processing power than the human prefrontal cortex that can do anyjob, but we don't and won't for sometime, there are considerable barriers.

Then we need people, in governments etc to direct resources and organise technological enrichment.

Businesses operating on shores can be taxed by governments, run supposedly by those citizens to fund a basic income/societal enrichment

How expensive 600 years ago do you think it would be to have a moving picture displayed with slaves/employees quickly swapping out paper with images drawn by hand,

now anyone can watch on in a matter of seconds for virtually nothing.

sure not everyone has a lexus yet....but we're getting there and automation will make it happen.

Technology frees man, it is extensions of ones own attributes.

Mans hands were not strong enough so he crafted a hammer, then his nails were not sharp enough so he crafted a chisel, then his mind was not powerful enough so he creates a computer, he tires and grows weary, he cannot flip burgers so he makes a burger flipper.

If you are too "unskilled" then you need more or re educating to compete in the existing labor market.

...hmm, maybe there will be an intellectual disability welfare system

[Anonymous No.306503]

>>306485
From the jobs that aren't automated yet, and from the elites who own the machines.

The process will continue in this fashion until either enough people are sufficiently angry to demand a universal basic income, or the entire system collapses and we're left with either a primitivist agrarian society or two disconnected economies where the machine owners live in fortified compounds, their every whim catered to by their systems, while the vast majority of humanity competes for dwindling resources, slowly dying off as they grow ever more economically irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.306505]

>>306499
There already is an intellectual disability welfare scheme. I keep forgetting most of you are american.

[Anonymous No.306516]

>>306499
>>306503
>from the jobs that aren't automated

We're talking about the future here. Our economy isn't sustainable in the direction we're heading with automation.

Automation doesn't create a net gain of jobs, it's a net loss. After all, why would businesses be flocking towards automation if it wasn't efficient?

>The process will continue in this fashion until either enough people are sufficiently angry to demand a universal basic income, or the entire system collapses and we're left with either a primitivist agrarian society or two disconnected economies where the machine owners live in fortified compounds, their every whim catered to by their systems, while the vast majority of humanity competes for dwindling resources, slowly dying off as they grow ever more economically irrelevant.

This is what I've been saying. We're just seeing the beginning of this happening now.

[Anonymous No.306527]

>>306505
I'm a britfag but I consider myself a global citizen.

intellectual disability scheme not in the sense that people are neurologically atypical, downsyndrome, williams, wernikes etc

I mean for persons under a certain IQ range, but still falling within the normal distribution, and those lacking the education needed to succeed in the labor market.

Another point: Labor/employment is a market, persons as sole economic units and owners of their own means of production sell their labor at market to employers.

[Anonymous No.306535]

>>306516
>machine owners live in fortified compounds

Thats probably what America and much of the west looks like from poorer nations

the thing is, you can't keep the automatic sekrets to yourself, they will be leaked, bought, opensourced, coders and engineers will replicate them for use by all persons.

Governments funded by your money provide services using automation...which improves your life by improving society at large.

>economically irrelevant

This sounds like a dream, if basic life necessities are there, and maybe some luxuries.

Its what man has been doing all this time, think about my earlier point...from cave men, we have been working and technologically advancing to free ourselves of labor because WE DO NOT FUCKING WANT TO WORK

[Anonymous No.306550]

>>306535
>This sounds like a dream, if basic life necessities are there, and maybe some luxuries.

This is true, but my point was that in the current system, particularly in America, being economically irrelevant means being left to die in a ditch. Our governments and economies are going to have to change in order to account for individuals having value on their own merits, rather than being assessed solely on what contribution they can make to GDP.

[Anonymous No.306553]

>>306421
Lots of asian companies just hire way too many people
This is very true in Japan and Korea

[Anonymous No.306588]

>>306535
>This sounds like a dream

And it is, but again, the way we're going right now isn't sustainable. We won't even reach anything near the utopia you describe if we can't make it past the inevitable class warfare.

[Anonymous No.306641]

>>306588
>inevitable class warfare

There are billionaires living among us.

I live in a place where min wage, no net worth, in debt and homeless people live 10minutes walk from houses worth £20m, on streets with average house prices in the millions

No one is at war...

[Anonymous No.306654]

Reagan. He got the ball rolling in gutting the US economy beyond repair.

[Anonymous No.306667]

>>306503

Since automation is bad why don't you go plow a field with a hand trowel?

[Anonymous No.306669]

>>306654
This and his wife brainwashed society with her "zero tolerance" drug policy.

[Anonymous No.306671]

>>306404

That was around the point computers first began entering the workforce. It's basically at this point that machines began eclipsing human productivity.

[Anonymous No.306673]

>>306667
Where did I say automation is bad?
I just said that increasing structural unemployment due to better technology is going to lead to social changes, for better or worse.

I like living in an industrial society and shitposting on 4chan as much as you do, and I would prefer that the post-automation version of that society still has a place for me that includes flush toilets and Internet access.

[Anonymous No.306679]

>>306641
For some reason you seem to keep talking about the present when I clearly state the future.

Don't they teach reading comprehension in whatever third world country you're from?

[Anonymous No.306687]

>>306435

It's called corporate welfare.

[Anonymous No.306696]

>>306503
I came

[Anonymous No.306745]

This is a moronic liberal bs statistic that they use. The reason wages haven't gone up with productivity is because productivity hasn't gone up because of people's work. It has gone up because of outsourcing and computers.
THAT'S IT.
There is however a reason we are losing so many jobs to foreigners. Minimum wage. Seriously, I run a social media marketing business and simply cannot afford to hire Americans. Why would I? They're no more productive than foreigners and cost far more, and I'm not a racist, so I'll hire the foreigner. More than that though, minimum wage laws (but don't be mistaken, that is just the tip of the iceberg of the reason I, and many other business owners don't hire in the US), hurt low skill low education workers the most. What you have to understand is that people don't just get a minimum wage job and never move on (although we've seen much of that with recent regulations pressuring businesses to hire part time [e.g. Obamacare]), but it allows young people to get experience that can help them get better jobs later.
I did a shitload of unpaid internships when I was younger, along with low paid jobs, and these assholes who are telling us about how they are like slavery? Slavery is when you don't have a choice. People do internships because they are willing to trade their time for the experience and higher future wages.
Seriously, fuck the modern Democratic party for what they have done AND the Republicans. Both use these sort of populist arguments that appeal to the average idiot to try to get them to vote for them, knowing full well they're complete BS.
Republicans tend to go after the religious nuts but neither favors economic freedom and responsibility, and Democrats spout utter crap like the complete fabrication of the gender wage gap (please tell me nobody here believes that, but if you do, think about this. If you are a business owner, and you can pay women 77 cents on the dollar for the exact same work, who wouldn't hire only women!)

[Anonymous No.306761]

>>306745
Most people I see working minimum-wage jobs are older than I am, and supporting themselves off of that income.
Where I live, the minimum wage is insufficient to pay rent without sharing a bedroom, so a lot of minimum wage earners are actually working homeless.

If we had a universal basic income, then minimum wage could be abolished, since all labor would be at market rate, rather than being distorted by cost of living at the low end. Then you'd be free to pay your spammers whatever fractional amount you like, wherever they live. Good luck getting uptake at that rate though.

[Anonymous No.306763]

>>306745
If you eliminated minimum wage, you'd make even more people homeless and put more stress on the already bloated welfare system.

[Anonymous No.306958]

>>306404

Robotics, the Computer Revolution, and China happened in 1975.

Look, even if we got rid of minimum wage and let humans work for free, machines would still be better because they are faster and do less mistakes than humans do.

Also even if we got rid of minimum wage to compete with China, China would just print more money to devalue its currency to make their workers cheaper.

[Anonymous No.306972]

Then explain this.

[Anonymous No.306973]

>>306404
>implying labor demand is constant and doesn't change with innovation

[Anonymous No.307043]

>>306412
>6lp6ssNb
>same ID

Damn. There's another /biz/realite at the company.

[Anonymous No.307198]

>>306328
Computers.

Sitting in an air conditioned building in front of an excel sheet or data entry program is the 21st century equivalent of an unskilled worker. Except that the PC is a much more powerful and productive tool, not the actual worker.

[Anonymous No.307229]

>>306330
Yup

[Anonymous No.307262]