Programmer/software engineer job market discussion

[Anonymous No.30227194]

I know a lot of you are professional programmers/software engineers etc and I need some advice. What would you say helped you the most or would help someone become proficient in this field. Are there any specific things that employers look for, such as specific languages, degrees, certifications etc? I’m in school rn for software engineering and I understand what I’m learning but some of the courses I have to take (such as 3 semesters of physics) are aids at times and I wonder if I’ll ever be applying anything I learn past the 1st semester of physics in my actual work.

[Anonymous No.30228392]

>>30227194
BSV is the real Bitcoin

[Anonymous No.30228663]

>>30227194
>What would you say helped you the most or would help someone become proficient in this field.
being self taught and not ask other people’s opinion on a japanese image board

[Anonymous No.30228876]

>>30227194
Self taught sysadmin and programmer currently in devops. Didn't even finish high school

[Anonymous No.30229166]

>>30227194
>Are there any specific things that employers look for, such as specific languages
Yes, but the language(s) depends on the job.

You should have personal projects that you can show to demonstrate your skills. At least here where I live, no one cares what your GPA is or what courses you have taken in university. You need contacts, personal projects, enthusiasm and preferably professional experience, of course.

[Anonymous No.30229183]

>>30228663
Kys
>>30228876
Nice, what languages did you have under your belt by the time you got your first job, unless you do freelancing?

[Anonymous No.30229308]

>>30227194
is this meme career even worth it? i work in accounting and am self-teaching "web dev." torn between trying to break into software development or just doing a half measure and learning python/SQL and doing the business intelligence meme.

[Anonymous No.30229343]

I feel bad for you. You are living in an era where programming will be a dead job in not even 10 years more like 5. If it's not too late I recommend you switch majors to literally anything else and also get some kneepads.

[Anonymous No.30229568]

>>30229343
Why do you think it will be a dead job in 5-10 years? AI/machine learning and IOT alone are pretty big markets that will only increase with time for starters. People also need websites made and businesses need technology for many different purposes which have to be satisfied by someone who knows what they’re doing

[Anonymous No.30229603]

>>30229343
This is a meme. Every industry is going to be hit hard tech included but itll still be a lucrative field

[Anonymous No.30229662]

>>30229183
>Kys
lol nice you have a backbone. With a physics interest you should go into quantum computing, more with qiskit.

[Anonymous No.30229666]

>>30227194
>specific languages
You need to know java, c++, and python. You don't need to know them very well, but you need to know them, and be an expert in at least one of them before applying. Even if the job you're applying for is in a completely different language.
> I understand what I’m learning but some of the courses I have to take (such as 3 semesters of physics) are aids at times and I wonder if I’ll ever be applying anything I learn past the 1st semester of physics in my actual work.
If you don't understand why a college would include physics or other sciences for a software engineering degree, then you're probably never gonna make it anon.

[Anonymous No.30229740]

>>30227194
>>30229308

<pee>
<poo>
</poo>
<pee faggot=oppie>

[Anonymous No.30229872]

>>30227194
>What would you say helped you the most or would help someone become proficient in this field
Personal projects. Just something that you can use to show you actually have done this shit before and aren't lying through your teeth; not to mention it's often the best way to learn and practice too. Also some basic social skills so that HR doesn't write you off as a sperg, and because you'll most likely be working in a team.
>Are there any specific things that employers look for, such as specific languages, degrees, certifications etc?
Language will depend on the job itself, but otherwise it doesn't matter, as long as you're reasonably good at using at least one or two. Generally a uni degree in something technical is sought after, but there are ways to get in even with just personal projects under your belt. Heck, you could even try applying to job openings that require certs you don't have anyway if you have the skills to back it up. You never know.

[Anonymous No.30229945]

>>30229740
>not closing your pee tags

[Anonymous No.30230013]

>>30229662
Sounds interesting, I’ll have to look more into it.
>>30229666
I can see why I’d need some physics but 3 semesters seems very excessive. Then again, I haven’t actually had to apply anything I’ve learned in physics yet to my comp sci course I’m taking rn. I can see how other classes such as calculus are important tho. Also, do employers look for certificates for the languages you mentioned or would they expect you to have a good grasp on them because you have a degree?

[Anonymous No.30230391]

>>30230013
>Also, do employers look for certificates for the languages you mentioned or would they expect you to have a good grasp on them because you have a degree?
they expect you to have projects/knowledge under your belt, almost nobody cares about certificates by themselves, incl college degrees
>I can see why I’d need some physics but 3 semesters seems very excessive. Then again, I haven’t actually had to apply anything I’ve learned in physics yet to my comp sci course I’m taking rn. I can see how other classes such as calculus are important tho
Physics is just applied calculus. You're not learning physics for physics sake, you're learning physics because it's the next step in learning how to use programmatic logic.
Sure it might be more efficient if you can do that with *just* computer science topics, but college is designed to take any retard and turn them into a white collar worker.

[Anonymous No.30230483]

>>30229945

/ Plz approve PR. My standing desk foot pat doubles as knee pads

if (you.doKnowWhatIMean())
noHomo()

[Anonymous No.30230595]

A post I made yesterday, should give some good info: >>30165863

Beyond that:
>certs
Wouldn't bother unless you're trying to do IT. Maybe they have some value in security, but I wouldn't know about such things. If you're going for the big FAANGkind of money, definitely don't bother.
>degrees
Regular old CS is best. Failing that do SE, like you're doing now OP - was much lighter on math at my alma mater but you're still going to need a decent understanding of discrete math and graph theory to make it past a lot of interview questions.
>languages
Python is a godsend for interviews. Learn it and use it, the simplicity will give you so much time to focus on the actual problem-solving. Other than that, Javascript/Typescript/C++/Go are all decent picks that should do you some good in the industry.
>learning anything from physics
Doubtful, but it's fun to bust out some basic mechanics just for the fun of it every now and then. It's decent prep mindset-wise for what you'll need for other actually-programming-related math courses.

>>30229343
Based on the current state of the art and some things I can see which the public can't, I sincerely doubt that. We'll need a completely different approach in order to actually come up with AI capable of replacing a software engineer.

I don't have any meetings for the rest of the day, so I'll hang around this thread. Feel free to ask a Google engineer anything.

[Anonymous No.30230730]

>>30230595
How many pajeets will i have to deal with

[Anonymous No.30230748]

>>30230595

How do I get an interview after I grind Cracking the Coding Interview and Introduction to ALGO?

[Anonymous No.30230895]

>>30227194
>make a github profile
>fork some projetcs
>create some new ones
>have a well documented portfolio
>practice algorithms
>apply for job interview

Good luck anon

[Anonymous No.30231137]

>>30230595
Is age-ism really a thing? I'm 37 and haven't worked in years since my investments have done so well (coming up on $750k). I have no background in tech whatsoever but am interested in self-teaching coding to a high level. Suppose that takes me three years starting from scratch and working on it full time, I'd be coming up on 41. Realistically, regardless of skill, would be eliminated due to age, background, lack of degree, and resume gap?

[Anonymous No.30231781]

>>30227194
Get to know your CS professors and make a good impression. They got the mad hookup when it comes to employment opportunities. A company I work for is always hitting up our local Uni's faculty for talent.

[Anonymous No.30231784]

>>30230595
I didn't graduate with a CS Degree (worthless Digital Media degree) and I'm looking into getting into Web Development. Currently doing the FreeCodeCamp stuff, what else would you recommend?

Also, going off what >>30229568 said, what does the future of Web Development look like?

[Anonymous No.30231795]

>>30231137

Basically equivalent younger candidates will be preferred because they are perceived to work harder and be more content with x money

[Anonymous No.30232033]

>>30230730
There aren't any on my team. I suspect, but cannot prove, that they tend to hire their own. Might not be something to blame them for depending on where you're coming from. In the valley in general there's no avoiding them if you really don't like them, but I personally don't really care one way or the other. Not a fan of the accent though.

>>30230748
I had forgotten about intro to algos, that's another good book. If you're still in school get an internship at as high a profile company as you can, then use that as leverage going forward. I'll be honest though, it's largely a game of luck and numbers of getting your foot in the door, though obviously you can improve your chances - having a good linkedin, the aforementioned internships, applying to as many companies as possible, that kind of thing.

>>30231137
Sort of. I have coworkers much older than you (though they all accordingly have more experience), so at least in that regard I think you'll be fine. I really wouldn't worry until about 50-ish or so. Officially we're not even allowed to make age-related jokes here, so HR-wise things might even swing in your favor a little bit there.
The tricky part will be getting your foot in the door. At a FAANG-tier company you'll be competing for the entry-level jobs with college kids who went to MIT or an Ivy + probably already had some time in the valley from internships, and that's going to be tough to beat if you're just self-taught with no degree. Maybe not impossible, but definitely an uphill climb.

If you look outside the valley I think you'll have a much easier time of things, but the pay will decrease accordingly, of course. Doesn't have to be a mom-and-pop shop, just a tier or two below FAANG.

[Anonymous No.30232295]

>>30231137
Perhaps ageism but only if you arent up to date with the current requirements for the job. Also, past projects are a huge boost against any norman coming from college with a degree in comp sci

[Anonymous No.30233042]

>>30232033

Thanks. Are you FAAGMANs getting remote? That's the only appeal of midwest shit pay - a ton of remote jobs now.

[Anonymous No.30233216]

>>30229183
>Kys
he literally gave you the answer you dumb nigger
be self taught, you have the internet and you have to know how to TEACH yourself. Google everything, congrats you’re a code monkey

Pearls before swine

[Anonymous No.30233321]

>>30233042
Yes, most of us are remote

[Anonymous No.30233479]

>>30233321

Hmm, I need to get studying then.

[Anonymous No.30233525]

Also, any “engineer” that replies in this thread and shoots off vague advice likes to pass themselves off as competent but fail to see the market forces and the absolute shitshow that is in tech nowadays.
Anyone that is in an engineering role longer than a year no longer knows how to get the job, and most of the time you were just lucky to get the job

Like another poster said, get ready for knee pads or learn to carry your own company

Just glorified slaves

[Anonymous No.30233627]

>>30227194
CRACKING THE CODING INTERVIEW and LEETCODE

I studied physics and it's not totally useless to be able to model something effectively and know math, but as a programmer most of your job will not involve physics.

[Anonymous No.30233656]

You guys are thinking way too fucking hard. Just find a well paying enough job, pile money into crypto, and then in a few years you can do whatever you fucking want.

[Anonymous No.30233687]

>>30227194
Eesh I hate that shit corporate art style so much. I do mostly C++ so in school algorithms and object oriented stuff helped the most I guess. For actually being successful in the field it was really more about connections. Some things never change.

[Anonymous No.30233751]

>>30233656
All corpo jobs suck ass. It may be different work switching to be an Engineer or software dev or whatever, but it's all the same shit and the same problems. You will not really make it being a wagie. Think bigger

[Anonymous No.30233777]

Paying a college for an education you can literally get for free. You lack critical thinking skills, NGMI anon.

[Anonymous No.30233791]

>>30231784
CTCI and introduction to algorithms (bless that anon for reminding me of that book) are good books to get into. Even if you're doing webdev, it's good to know how to do these things. Otherwise it'll be like learning to draw by copying anime characters and not knowing the proper fundamentals. Do leetcode, hackerrank, anything that can acquaint you with the more theoretical side of things.
Take on a non-trivial project too, it'll help stretch your limits and provide a good portfolio item. If you're concentrating on webdev, maybe something like a fully-working storefront with a complete, SQL-backed backend and a responsive frontend with desktop and mobile layouts would be good.

>future of Web Development
I think things will be fine. It's not like investing where we as software engineers pick a certain set of technologies or languages to specialize in and then never use anything else. Plan on constantly reinventing yourself tech-wise and learning new things if you want to keep up with the industry. Know what's currently in vogue and use that to land jobs, tinker with new/experimental stuff you find interesting, but I wouldn't try to be ahead of the curve outside that.

Not saying you need to prepare for the possibility of waking up one day and being an embedded developer, just saying that the current year stack is just that and will be replaced given enough time.

>>30233042
No problem. There aren't any plans to go permanently full remote at Google at present, though the offices are closed (we're temporarily remote) they'll tax you at your state of residence if you're not currently in CA. If you want high salaries with a lower cost of living give Austin a shot. Rent's bad there (and getting worse, I hear), but not Bay Area levels of bad. Decent tech presence, as well.
If you want to work fully remote, give Gitlab a call. Never worked for them, but they seem like they might be up your alley.

[Anonymous No.30233870]

>>30233751
Having an extra 20k a year before taxes on your salary is not fucking much. If you can't fucking make it on $85k, how the duck do you think getting paid 105k before taxes will do anything for you?

[Anonymous No.30233915]

>>30227194
200K+ chads, if you were to start today, what direction would you go as a self taught programmer/SWE? I have aerospace degree if that matters. I want remote job in the future if possible.

[Anonymous No.30234002]

>>30233915
make my own company

[Anonymous No.30234168]

>>30234002
Ok but what direction/field? What stack? What technology? Could you specify a bit more please?

[Anonymous No.30234450]

>>30227194
Funny story, I guess. The recruiter for my first job that got my foot in the door, jacked off all over my chest. That is not how I got the job but in subtle ways I let him know I was down for anything. It happened a few weeks after I was hired. He took photos of the event and tried to blackmail me. I had to do worse shit or he'll show my wife, that type of thing. Eventually got my hands on the photos and went to HR. I was fired for bringing the company in to disrepute but like I said, it got my foot in the door.

[Anonymous No.30234470]

>>30234168
You pick a tech stack and IDE you like first, then figure out its strengths and weaknesses. If you dont want to do that then research which of those are highest in demand and choose accordingly. Has nothing to do with field or industry retard.

[Anonymous No.30234538]

>>30227194
let op_ass=[ ];
let dick = "<==3";
While(true){
op_ass.push(dick);
}

[Anonymous No.30234729]

>>30234470
Thanks fren.

[Anonymous No.30235128]

>>30233777
College is good for the connections and the school name on the piece of paper that is your degree. You'll learn a lot more at any job, it's true. Despite what a lot of companies are starting to say ("we don't require degrees," etc.) I still suspect they look for grads of the big-name unis first.

>>30233915
Cloud if you can get your foot in the door at FAANG will be good. I' suspect cloud itself is getting commoditized, or that's what everyone not named Amazon is trying to do anyway, so maybe look at PaaS stuff. Think Heroku, Kubernetes, that kind of thing. I mentioned Gitlab earlier, look into what they're doing maybe, process-wise. I feel they're on the cutting edge of full remote work.

>>30234168
Pick a problem you think is worth solving and then work backwards to figure out what stack you need to get the job done. I'm working on what will hopefully become a startup but don't have any real experience in that space, so take what I say with a grain of salt. That approach makes the most sense to me, though.

[Anonymous No.30235197]

>>30234538
What the actual fuck is going on this webm?

[Anonymous No.30235248]

>>30227194
>>30229308
https://learnyousomeerlang.com/static/
thank me later.

[Anonymous No.30235613]

>>30229308
>python/SQL and doing the business intelligence meme.
This is unironically comfy

[Anonymous No.30235627]

>>30229308
>meme career
idk getting paid big bucks to figure out and program real time video processing software sounds pretty neat and worth it to me. It'll pay off your debt and let you buy shitcoins in no time

[Anonymous No.30235738]

>>30227194
just don't be a retard. I'm so fucking sick of dealing with retards who can't google shit. STOP FUCKING BOTHERING ME AND LOOK IT UP YOURSELF YOU DUMB NIGGER
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Anonymous No.30235815]

>>30227194
I studied Data Anlytics, theres a small amount of Math so get ready for that, mostly linear algebra/ set theory/ limits etc.

Job prospects are fucking limitless in this field, every company is fucking fiending for analysts to make them more money and manipulate the public into buying shit. You can also use analytics in the biological sceinces (genomics etc.) which is my end goal.

In terms of languages, you will pick them up as you need them, but I currently know (and in order of importance to me right now);
- Python
- SAS
- R (learn shiny R too)
- SQL
- Java
- Web app shit (ASP, PHP, C#, JS, JQuery, D3
etc.)
- Powershell (not really a PL but important
sometimes)
- MATLAB

Start with python and then go to Java or C++ and you can pretty much learn anything. I really like SQL so I would tell you to learn that but its not really that important. Scala seems to be gaining traction too.

[Anonymous No.30236038]

>>30228392
10/10 troll

[Anonymous No.30236147]

Stay relatively open, be curious and try a bunch of stuff to see where you fit... it’s too early to tell if you’re learning and asking, better to poke around and see what fits.

Learn core skills while you can, debugging and problem solving are unique to each person and making sure you’ve got those skills is important.

Sites like advent of code and programming challenge websites are great for language agnostic tasks that help build problem solving skills. They also help build a portfolio, even if it’s just a GitHub repo you pump challenge answers into it goes a long way.

Communication is also key, develop your social and presentation skills. The stereotype is that devs are nerdy introverts that you need a translator (read PM) to talk to. If you don’t fit that stereotype you’re ahead of another potential candidate with similar tech skills & experience.

Front end web has done me well, I’m always in demand. Skills that put me above are actually being able to design something. But, that might not end up being your thing.

Specific languages are a pain to nail down without geography, look at the job boards around you and what the overall language trend is. Last 5 years around me the majority is either C# .Net stack or full stack JS. But I know people in different locations that are php and python heavy.

Make your CV relative to your field, I’m full stack web, my CV is a website, the printed copy is the psd mock-up. That shit sells me before they’ve even read a word.

For interviews, learn to be interesting. If you’re given fizzbuzz throw in a code golf version, if you’re asked about personal projects have something that you’ve developed just because you wanted to. Interviews are boring as sin to conduct, if you have the basic skills required for a position you’re okay... if you can stop your interviewees from being bored whilst finding this out you’ll win.

[Anonymous No.30236237]

>>30227194
People are crying out for devs, get on a graduate programme and learn on the job, if you dont understand something read about it. As a dev there's absolutely nothing wrong with studying at work.

[Anonymous No.30236332]

Oh and learn git, no fucker understands git. Older devs fuck it up on a regular basis. Learn git.

[Anonymous No.30236371]

>>30230391
no dumbass. they require physics to milk more money out of you.
>physics is the next step in learning how to use programmatic logic
fucking lol. maybe if you're trying to be a game dev. if so, kys cuz you'll be contributing less to a better society than a McDonald's worker

[Anonymous No.30236412]

>>30235815
I think I’m gonna learn Python on the side because I’m learning C++ rn in my classes and then I’ll just go from there

[Anonymous No.30236592]

>>30229343
dont listen to this boomer. he just hasn't been able to cope with this new era of life. this is the future. if jobs are gonna be automated, then learn how to do the automation or stay as close to it as you can

[Anonymous No.30236766]

>>30233791

Thanks again. If I am slaving, I might as well try to slave for real money.

[Anonymous No.30236814]

>>30235248
>recommended some gay toy language
go back to /g/ you fucking nigger

[Anonymous No.30237141]

I'm currently a third year student who is going to be looking for jobs in about 6 months. Any tips you guys suggest? No leetcode that shit is too hard for me. Do you guys think linkedin is actually necessary?

[Anonymous No.30237251]

>>30236412
Python is incredibly valuable, good idea anon

[Anonymous No.30237275]

>>30236814
based

[Anonymous No.30237442]

>>30233777
Checked and based

[Anonymous No.30238492]

>>30233777
>Paying for college
Oh no, oh no no, OH NO NO NO

[Anonymous No.30238571]

>>30228392
this, talk to CSW

[Anonymous No.30238871]

Oh, thread's still up.

>>30236766
I'd hardly call the hours I keep work, honestly. I do maybe 35 hours a week tops. Investing and trading's good, but making /makeit/ money in the daytime is good too. Some people at work were recently talking about what their favorite Michelin restaurants were. I knew people at one of the places I used to be that'd leave the office at 3pm.

>>30236332
Definitely learn Git, ironically enough a lot of FAANG uses something else (Google is no exception, though we use Git for some open-source stuff), but by and large it's the de-facto standard and not something taught in undergrad.

>>30237141
Depends. Do you want a FAANG-tier job? You'll want a linkedin and some leetcode experience then. If not, you could probably get away without the leetcode, but linkedin will do nothing but help you find and reach out to recruiters.

[Anonymous No.30238920]

>>30233777
fucking checked, at one point you're going to realize whether you like it or not that the degree is more needed than you realize. I do think if you dont have to go to college you shouldnt but the hate towards college is just because the average normie is a retard and doesnt: apply for scholarships or any financial help, stays in their own group or alone and doesnt do any networking which is what college is literally for, major in the worst shit possible, dont do extracurricular activities or internships. If you do this of course you'll think college sucks because you were a faggot and thought you would be handed a job at the end, college isnt even that expensive anymore especially if you start with community then a 4 year. Its not an option for everyone but you can literally just not pay student debt and tell them to fuck off

[Anonymous No.30238983]

>>30236814
enjoy your javashit.
Erlang is responsible for high availability telecoms switches. Whatsapp scaled to a billion users with Erlang.
BlockFi.com is hiring Elixir (descending from Erlang) remote jobs right now.
Stick with javascript and you'll be writing web for retards for decades.

[Anonymous No.30239466]

>>30234450
Anon, that sounds pretty gay.

[Anonymous No.30239836]

>>30233915
Golang and Cloud Native