/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.30208190]

I’m convinced that monero doesn’t scale. Lets suppose the dynamic block size goes up to support something modest, like 100 transactions per second. At 1.5kb per transaction at 100 TPS, the blockchain would grow by 4.7tb per year. How does this scale again? Most nodes would not be able to support this.

[Anonymous No.30208352]

Bumping and lurking

[Anonymous No.30208428]

does it need to scale if it's only used for drugs?

[Anonymous No.30208465]

>>30208190
It's a store of an unknown amount of value

[Anonymous No.30208513]

>>30208190
>lets suppose monero suddenly gets 8.6 million transactions daily

[Anonymous No.30208515]

Just enable pruning dumbass

[Anonymous No.30208619]

>>30208190
i'm pretty sure the rpc system works to verify transactions and take load from the network's regular transactions

[Anonymous No.30208812]

>>30208428
People probably said that about bitcoin.

>>30208513
Not suddenly, but it could be quicker than you think.

>>30208515
This doesn’t fix the problem though, it only kicks the can down the road. 2/3rds of the blockchain can be pruned, which is nice, but not a long term solution.

[Anonymous No.30209058]

>>30208190
If only there was a hard fork with PoS implemented...
IYKYK

[Anonymous No.30209206]

>>30209058
>Proof of Stink coin

Opinion disregarded

[Anonymous No.30209391]

>>30209058
Not to mention, proof of stink is not even a solution to the problem I presented

[Anonymous No.30209454]

AFAIK they are working on reducing the transaction block size, and also on pruning the blockchain regularly. Also storage is getting cheaper every year, so 5 tb in a couple of years won't even be a big deal.

[Anonymous No.30209898]

>>30208812
Storage is rapidly becoming cheaper, and eventually 5TB will be trivial. I've been shopping for pc parts lately and I was shocked by how cheap SSDs had become compared to just 3 years ago.

[Anonymous No.30210878]

>>30208190
Probably the same way as btc, centralization. Imagine thinking crypto will ever reach mainstream adoption, must be new.

[Anonymous No.30212227]

>>30208190
blockchain size is not a problem in long term.
There's a lot of innovation to be done in storage, it hasn't been done because there's no demand from customers.

It a paradox than when you need more of one resource, it gets cheaper and more available.
It happened with oil, with food, with trees, with cattle, and it will happen the same with storage.
Search for "the ultimate resource" from Julian Simon

[Anonymous No.30212503]

>>30210878
>must be new

Ah yes centralization is the solution to decentralization. Retard.

[Anonymous No.30212616]

>>30208190
I'm convinced you're fake news.

[Anonymous No.30212821]

>>30208190
BS, Monero is the future! I summon you MoneroCHAN!!!

[Anonymous No.30213240]

>>30208190

> 250 TPS
> 256 ringCT
> Smart contract
> BlockDAG
feel good.

[Anonymous No.30214335]

>>30212503
That's why crypto won't ever reach mainstream adoption, retard. There's almost no reason for people to use it instead of a regular bank if it has to scale with a centralized layer 2. The main benefit at that point is sound money. Which xmr is, and it can be deflationary even with tail emission depending on how many coins are lost, and tail emission should also help it scale better than btc. Monero might be digital swiss bank accounts, and btc can be digital gold/real estate. They don't necessarily need to replace visa or mastercard, but there would be centralized layer 2 systems for microtransactions. Eth is basically layer 2 btc even though the fees are higher than btc at the moment, wbtc has a higher mcap than xmr. But most people don't care if it's just a ledger entry in coinbase/paypal/square/LN.

[Anonymous No.30214697]

>>30208190
currently monero is at about 0.25tx/s on avarage
historic growth is 10x every 4 years
to get to your target of 100TPS would take about 10 years give or take

for comparison: ETH is at about 15tx/s and BTC is at about 3.5tx/s

The hope is that storage becomes cheaper faster than usage increases. Pruning might help for a while.
Realistically I think monero grows faster than storage cost decreases and devs will need to find out a clever workaround. Maybe some light nodes only hold a fraction of the blockchain request on demand old, rarely used blocks? Maybe some kind of sweep can be implemented that places unused outputs from previous transactions into a new block, so the lite nodes can discard old blocks without problems?

[Anonymous No.30214715]

>>30214335
>digital swiss bank accounts
I guess that doesn't really make sense, more like swiss bank account that can be stored in a mnemonic phrase.

[Anonymous No.30215837]

Monero is good if you want privacy, PIVX is good if you want privacy and gains

[Anonymous No.30216224]

>>30214697
3 years ago a Monero transaction was 13 kb, now it's 1.5 kb and as can be seen from Bulletproofs+ work is still being done to slim transaction sizes down. XMR could do a 10x in transaction count and would be fine though so I think OP's fears are unfounded

[Anonymous No.30216433]

>>30208190
>the blockchain would grow by 4.7tb per year
That is an incredibly small amount.
Buying 4.7tb costs less than 1 monero.
Storage is VERY cheap.

[Anonymous No.30216784]

>>30216224
I don't think another 10x reduction in transaction size is possible. In fact triptych will bump it to 2.2kB or so (but give a ring size of 64 or 128 in return)
It's less of a fear and more of a concern. Interestingly enought people who hold monero think years into the futurew

>>30216433
This might be the right way to frame it. Long term holders are most likely to run a node, and their moneroj might gain in value quicker than the cost of storage increases

[Anonymous No.30217710]

>>30209898
storage is only half the problem the collective bandwidth and cpu time required to validate sync is an other aspect. bitcoin was already bad. monero is worse in this regard.

[Anonymous No.30218022]

>>30217710
100 TPS @ 2kB = 2MB/s, totally do-able even today
Even an old i/ 2600k can handle 1600 TPS (maybe a little bit less because of privacy improvements) https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/405/how-many-transactions-per-second-can-the-monero-network-handle

[Anonymous No.30218244]

>>30218022
i'm not saying not doable i'm saying it's a huge pain in the ass.

[Anonymous No.30218660]

>>30218022
yeah meanwhile the theoretical cap for bitcoin layer2 transactions is in the billions/sec range.
practically may not get close to that any time soon, but it puts things into perspective.

[Anonymous No.30218784]

>>30218660
because layer2 is basically a synced excel spreadsheet you retard, BTC will forever stay at 7 TPS

[Anonymous No.30218874]

>>30218784
7TPS? it barely reaches 4TPS

[Anonymous No.30219040]

>>30218874
4 TPS? What do you need 1 TPS for?

[Anonymous No.30219102]

>>30218660
There will be at least one (tari), but likely multiple layer 2 solutions for monero. Proposal: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmdbNm6GCRP23tBDbs9JXQst65RWUZH1383zYcmkThAJLo/Scaling%20Monero.%20Sub-Ledgers.signed

It's just not yet implemented because monero is nowhere near it's limit

[Anonymous No.30219211]

>>30218784
the trick is it's not shared.
if you make all things everyone's burden it will never scale. but allowing business to only concern those involved and only do the settlement on chain is a valid scaling strategy.
obvious method is the custodial banking approach that would scale bitcoin to unlimited tx/sec, but the wonderful thing about lightning is they managed to keep it trustless and non-custodial.

[Anonymous No.30219395]

>>30219102
so they are finally adding scripting to monero but only works if you forgo privacy? interesting.

[Anonymous No.30219451]

>>30219395
how else would it work? can you run an encrypted .exe file without decrypting it?

[Anonymous No.30219465]

>>30219395
ah sorry it's just a merge mined sidechain with it's own token. wtf?

[Anonymous No.30219742]

>>30219395
Tari is a seperate project designed for NFT like concert tickets or collectables. Value transactions are semi private with mimblewimble, NFTs privacy can be choosen by the creator, depending on the application.
Atomic swaps to monero can be used to bring value into tari, eventually also wrapped monero tokens in tari.
Merge mining uses Moneros security for tari.
In exchange, tari labs and it's investors pay for monero development and high speed nodes in china and other under-supplied markets.

[Anonymous No.30219999]

>>30219742
>designed for NFT
oh shit that's the second most retarded thing after defi in the history of crypto.
fuck man.

[Anonymous No.30220527]

>>30219742
i will start mining xmr and tari when tari is released but there is no indication about when it will be, some say late this year

[Anonymous No.30220716]

>>30219040
kek

[Anonymous No.30220973]

>>30219742
do you think tari can 100x long term after it releases? i have talked with the devs in telegram and the team seems quite good, the wallet app for iOS is amazing too

[Anonymous No.30221011]

>>30219999
No, not your stupid image NFTs and collectables.
Concert tickes for example are a great use case, buying and reselling is very easy, and at the entrance you just show a qr code to proof that you own it. Can then be instantly marked as used. Zero change of faking a ticket. Might be useful to fight scalpers too. If it works, it will be fantastic for small venues as it gives them access to high end tech without the cost of traditional systems (ticketmaster markup etc). Fluffypony already has a business partner lined up for irl tickets.
Second use case would be in game items. I would never buy that, but the market is huge.

[Anonymous No.30221367]

>>30220527
>>30220973
Unfortunatly I can't mine economically, but I'm bullish af and will buy a few tokens early, just to be part of it. No clue what the price will develop long term. It's just one of the very few promising utility tokens. (The other one I value is LBC)

[Anonymous No.30221525]

>>30221367
i think the potential is huge, there will also be no premine or other scammy shit, it's straight up fair mining

i think everyone should get at least some tari when the mainnet comes live

[Anonymous No.30222075]

>>30208190
Monero scales just fine. The important thing is that it can handle that amount of transactions and the fees will stay low. Storage space and verification times will require repeated improvements in the code (e.g last year we had clsag and this year we have bulletproofs+ which decreased transaction size by 15% and 5% respectively). Pruning also cuts the size of the node by two thirds, and Moore’s law is always right.
It’s definitely a concern but Monero could easily handle Bitcoins daily transactions.