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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/biz/ - Business & Finance

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29429996 No.29429996 [Reply] [Original]

Premise 1: Eth killers as in taking over from ETH as the settlement layer isn't happening. All their native features such as NFTs, on chain governance etc is useless, blockchains should do what they do well: canonically ordering data and the rest should be application layer.
Premise 2: The "dumb blocks" on eth shards that will basically only provide data ordering and availability. The rest is L1.5/2.
Premise 3: There will be multiple L2s with no single winner due to specialization: zk-rollups, optimistic rollups, plasma for some enterprise use, consortium chains (for example exchanges running an interexchange transfer chain), very specialized custom L2s/execution environments optimized for a single use case, some state channel stuff (even contracts can be run as long at the participants are a known set), sidechains (non shared security, i guess the surviving "eth killers" will also fit here as they all are building bridges to Ethereum).
Premise 3: The fragmentation of dApps kills some of the composability that makes defi great, a solution for fluid movement between environments is critical.

All this points to an emerging swap/movement market where you pay someone a small fee to instantly release funds you deposit on one L2 to your account in another L2 or ETH mainchain (paying to avoid the waiting time for Optimism withdrawals, ie selling your exit transaction, or swapping your exit for someone else's entry allowing them a small compensation for not just entering without a counterparty, etc) for. These may be traditional atomic-swap based or otherwise trustless, based on economic security like bonds and fraud proofs, or brand/trust based (a company specializing in these transfers) since the the period of time you're trusting them is very short and a single fraud will kill their business forever.

Are there any projects working on this? How do I make bank from to future HUGE interoperability market of heterogeneous execution environments on ETH?

>> No.29430372

>>29429996
Cables like that are unironically good, but also unironically retardedly overpriced and only idiots with too much money buy them. The only reason the cables are good is because they contain more copper, not because of whatever magical properties the manufacturers claim. You can get the same quality by simply using multiple really thick copper wires. More copper = less resistance.

>> No.29430507
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29430507

>>29430372
Thanks for the bump anon but what's your thoughts on the future cross-L2 liquidity market? I put a fair amount of thinking into it and would like some thoughts :(

>> No.29431066

>>29429996
AH FUCK IT’S THE SNAKES AGAIN
GET THEM OUT OF HERE
I DON’T HAVE ANY MICE FOR YOU

>> No.29431087
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29431087

bomp, nobody interested in discussing thins?

>> No.29431329

>>29431087
Condense it to ten words or less maybe some anons might.

>> No.29431335

>>29429996

You went over the head of most here. You're trying to have a dialectic with a bunch of meme shamans.

>> No.29431481

Cyber garloids?

>> No.29431497

>>29431329
>Future: many L2/execution enviroments ultimately revolving around the ETH mainchain
>moving between these will be a huge thing, an absolutely critical part of the future ecosystem
How will it work, and how do I make money from it?

>> No.29431570

>>29430507
Dunno. What does it mean? Number go up?

t. /biz/

>> No.29431605

>>29431087
>its real
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HPpMG9Xs-U

>> No.29431619

>Sound serpents come out to eat my BPMs

>> No.29431625
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29431625

>>29431570
:c

>> No.29431828
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29431828

>>29429996
you're an idiot and ETH is garbage. pic related is you. now back to your leddit atomatons with your faggotry

>> No.29431845

How about this to engage some linkies, then?
Chainlink, possibly the graph, could be a huge part in this. The heterogeneous systems could make direct, trustless, and quick interaction hard. LINK could make a good option for simply verifying a deposit on one env and releasing the corresponding amount from a pool on another in a low-trust way.

>> No.29431849

>>29430507
I’M NOT SAYING ONE PEEP UNTIL YOU EVICT THESE SERPENTS FROM MY MEDIA ROOM

KNOWLEDGE OF ESOTERIC L2 INTEROPERABILITY PROJECTS AND THEIR DEVELOPMENT TIMELINES COULD HAVE BEEN YOURS, BUT ALACK, FOR YOU HAVE INVITED THE BEAST THAT CRAWLS ON NO LEG INTO A PLACE OF GOD

>> No.29431935

>>29429996
NICE garloids dude!

>> No.29431963
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29431963

Holo is the new king even vitalik knows it thats why he owns the biggest bag of all

Hot will be proving how sharding works in the next few weeks

>> No.29431980

>>29431828
Enjoy your slightly higher throughput chain with built in native sex dolls that eventually run into the exact same problems then.

>> No.29432046
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29432046

>>29431497
nice mETH bagholder fatasy fiction. holy shit the cope that grows out of a complete failure by the core devs to shard. you will never make it anon. fuck you are beyond hope

>> No.29432064

>>29429996
Isn't what you're describing just a bridge from chain to chain? Why would there need to be a middleman?

>> No.29432065

>>29429996
you're referring to MATIC

>> No.29432157
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29432157

>>29431980
HOLY COPE

>> No.29432310

>>29432064
Many ways to implement a bridge. A trustless bridge requires both environments to understand/validate one another which might be hard, and in some cases impossible given how dissimilar many of these systems will be. There's also a latency issue.

I'm leaning towards liquidity pools on all these chains that can instantly release your tokens based on some system. Trustless, trusted, LINK based, or bonded/fraud proof based. I can also see current CEXes handling this in a trusted way where you trust that they will release your tokens based on the fact that not doing so would kill their reputation and future business.

>> No.29432433

>>29432046
How about just imagine I didn't mention eth and focus on the larger issue of dissimilar blockchain systems and instant cross environment transfers, not bottlenecked by some relay chain.

>> No.29432489

>>29432310
look at connext
https://twitter.com/ConnextNetwork/status/1363933825802248194
also matic wants to become an internet of L2 or something you can buy MATIC too

>> No.29432541

>>29432489
First good reply, thanks. I'll investigate this.

>> No.29432664

HISS HISS

>> No.29432900

>>29432541
connext has no token though so you can't invest i think.
i guess that leaves MATIC

>> No.29432973

>>29431963
nice screenshot of a warosu post. anything more substantial?

>> No.29433048

>>29432900
Eh, I'm also interested in the general question of how this will play out. I guess I could also run a connext node myself to profit from it, assuming that is how it'll work. This is mostly an information gathering thread for things to research tomorrow, I'll check out matic too.

>> No.29433243

>>29433048
personally think there'll be one L2 that takes most of the cake. it's always more attractive to build on the most used L2 which leads to more and more people using it. sort of like how ETH is miles ahead of competition despite having scalability issues.
I think optimism will take the cake this year and maybe next year since you can copy + paste solidity code, but zk rollups will eventually beat optimism once nerds figure out all the cryptography shit behind it.

>> No.29433759

>>29433243
Generalized zk rollups are still pretty far off, and can be optimized for one/a few use cases a lot (something about zk rollups having to run the same code/account for all possible cases when creating the proofs for every transaction), see Loopring's fairly limited features.

I think you're right in that there will be a one/a few big ones taking 80+% of the market share eventually. Optimism being the big one right now but there's a general agreement that it's mostly a stopgap thing until we get fullly general zk systems. Even then I think proof generation for heavily optimized versions is a lot quicker/cheaper. I also think there's a market for different environments having very, very specialized features, programming languages etc for very specific uses.

>> No.29434015

>>29433759
>>29433243
All this is also applicable to chains that aren't L2s of ETH, there will definitely be a big swap market at some point. The bridges with both chains validating each other becomes more and more complex where they all have to understand eachother's protocols fully (imagine when it's 10 different chains with their own VMs), and latency becomes an issue with multi chain hops. Maybe I shouldn't have focused so heavily on the ETH L2s since fanboys of their favority eth killers get butthurt.

>> No.29434902

>>29429996

I'm following a pretty small project called RAMP which is new to the DeFI scene. They're aiming to operate a liquidity bridge between Layer 1 solutions.

Most Layer-2 solutions aren't getting a lot of traction right now. I was on the OmiseGo train, the Matic train, even Loom. I've been hearing about FLOW, the method CK is trying to invent for blockchain synching (cross-blockchain operations).

I completely agree that interoperability is going to be critical to the ecosystem, even if it's just a protocol to move assets and write contracts between these different chains.

RAMP is still early stage and currently just has some basic alpha product, but it's honestly the only project I know of besides FLOW that's actually focusing on cross-blockchain functionality.

>> No.29435700

>>29434902
>FLOW
>RAMP
noted. Can I get a QRD on how the transfers works? Their partner list looks good. If they can work cross-L1 (I should have made the thread more focused on just general transfer between really dissimilar systems) I assume they could also expand to cross-L2 depending on how it works. I am heavily leaning towards the winning solution being a liquidity pools with state channel like commitments for insta-transfers.

While L2 hasn't really caught on yet, IMO it's inevitable. I just listened to a podcast on zk/optimism and honestly it's looking good with efforts to allow withdrawals from CEXs right to L2 which is really what's needed for it to gain traction. The problem that if you have to pay to enter the L2 for just a few transactions, it's just not worth it, which hurts liquidity and makes small time traders priced out.