/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.28275334]

so what happens if you try to turn a shitton of btc from some exchange into usd? you just pay capital gains/income tax on it? does anyone ever get audited over this shit? i have a hard time believing the government would just leave you alone after receiving 500k worth of bitcoin from a foreign address out of nowhere

[Anonymous No.28275475]

>>28275334
>he actually thinks he can cash out
oh no no no
holy shit

[Anonymous No.28275561]

>>28275475
so then what do all the people on here do about their big ol stackerinos? stay in cagie indefinitely despite being technical millionaires?

[Anonymous No.28275565]

>>28275334
I’m not a tax expert or anything, but I’m pretty sure you don’t have to worry about it. Just a few bones, right? I doubt anyone cares.

[Anonymous No.28275601]

>>28275334
>you just pay capital gains/income tax on it?

Yes.

[Anonymous No.28275642]

>>28275334
You are responsible for reporting your capital gains and shit. If you are doing big cash outs you are going to get thrown under the bus by the big exchanges if you don't pay up.

[Anonymous No.28275737]

>>28275334
Cashing out is a meme.

[Anonymous No.28275909]

>>28275561
The second you take that cash out you’re getting assfucked by mr guberino no lube. Trying to take a million out of the market will leave you with about 300k worth of spending power

[Anonymous No.28276145]

>>28275909
how though? looking at tax brackets, 37% is the highest amount you can get taxed in the us on income tax

[Anonymous No.28276904]

>>28275642
They are forced to report profits exceeding 20k

>>28276145
People here are dumb as fuck about taxes and don't get it at all. Here's what you need to know about crypto and taxes:
>Crypto is considered property and handled as such
>Each swap of a coin in ANY way is a taxable event
>You pay capital gains on NET profits (Gross profits - Gross losses) and if you wind up in the red, you can deduct up to 3k off of your taxes per year
So technically you "cash out" every time you swap coins. You need to keep a log of them and some tax software will help you. This is to stop people from using, say, a crypto credit card (where each purchase would be cashing out). If you get a coin and never swap it, you don't pay taxes until you do. Here comes the one tricky thing: You need to pay taxes between years, so even if you haven't "cashed out" into fiat, you still owe on the gains from that year, meaning you'll need to pay out of pocket or cash out at least enough to cover your taxes.

[Anonymous No.28277134]

>>28276904
>You need to pay taxes between years, so even if you haven't "cashed out" into fiat, you still owe on the gains from that year, meaning you'll need to pay out of pocket or cash out at least enough to cover your taxes.

What? I thought you only pay up when a taxable event happened? So every year I need to calculate what I gained and pay taxes and reset my cost basis?

[Anonymous No.28277206]

>>28277134
Same with stonks, anon.

[Anonymous No.28277340]

>>28277206
shit like this is exactly why i used to take nice long calming sailing trips with my entire coin stack desu
til it fell to the bottom of a lake desu

[yourmumsboyfriend No.28277380]

>>28276904
land of the "free"

[Anonymous No.28277392]

>>28277134
You are correct, you only pay when a taxable event occurs. If you held without touching anything at all, you don't owe taxes for that year. I'm saying in the scenario of...
>Buy 20 BTC in Jan
>Sell 15 BTC in Nov and buy ETH
>Hold everything
For that you you'll owe taxes on the 15 BTC based on the profits you made (or losses). You still have to declare even if you broke completely even.

[Anonymous No.28277399]

>>28277340
invest in scuba gear, it's the right thing to do
you didn't foolishly tell anyone else the location of it right?

[Anonymous No.28277465]

>>28277392
God taxes are fucking retarded. Tea party 2.0 when?

[Anonymous No.28277589]

>>28277206
Oh uhh so me holding all this btc since 2018 and not reporting it means I'm fucked eh?

[Anonymous No.28277626]

>>28276904
wait so wtf happens if you use a vpn to trade on binance... are you technically laundering money at this point?

[Anonymous No.28277649]

>>28275561
If I need to paycash for something I send whatever over to coinbase in the form of ltc and sell it for usd, then transfer to my bank account. My taxes are legit and they can waste their time on an audit if they want. I will make their lives a living hell with all the documentation and events that take place in a year. Even if it's over ten, I have never had a problem, an audit or any hint that they're interested in challenging my math. Hate to cash it out but sometimes shit comes up. Trading crypto for cash sucks, very soon we wont have to worry about what form we pay in. You would be stupid to not accept crypto for products, services or labor.

[Anonymous No.28277664]

I actually think this particular aspect of taxes makes logical sense. It just seems intuitive because most people (myself included) don't try to use coins as anything other than stocks, so we don't envision swapping coins as "cashing out." The easiest way to think about this is imagine each stack of coins you have as a car. If you swap a car for another car, you have to pay taxes on the difference of fair market value. Same thing here. If it worked differently, people could get around gift tax with crypto-giving, or not pay taxes by claiming they don't cash out when they are really using it like a bank account with small transactions. I don't like paying taxes, but I also don't want crypto any more regulated than it already is. The gubbment feeling like it's getting money is a good way to avoid regulation for longer.

[Anonymous No.28277705]

>>28277399
>investing in scuba gear
can't afford it anon, gotta buy more silver to replace the stack I lost on my hiking trip before that. bear came up, nearly scared me down the mountain. had to throw all my silver at it to get away

someday ill have a coin to hold onto

[Anonymous No.28277707]

>>28277392
Okay thank you. I thought I misunderstood something and was about to get dicked lol.

[Anonymous No.28277781]

>>28277664
Go drink your onions you tax loving faggot.

[Anonymous No.28277811]

>>28277626
If you aren't reporting your taxes, you're just having good ole-fashioned tax evasion. Money laundering would be trying to conceal where you get the cash from. Nothing is wrong with using a VPN to invest in crypto. Certain coins or exchanges are illegal in the US because they are trying to do regulated activities (like be securities). When you report to the IRS, it's mostly just "here's what I made and lost, and here's your cut". You keep records of each transaction, but really the IRS isn't giving a fuck unless they audit you because your tax-evading ass is buying houses while claiming 40k earnings.

[Anonymous No.28277876]

>>28277705
You really need a better place to stash your shit so you won't lose it.
Boat doesn't sound good and neither does taking it on a hiking trip.

[Anonymous No.28277910]

>>28277626
in the us, all web traffic is reported by your isp to the fbi, vpn isn't going to do shit
thanks obama

[Anonymous No.28277941]

>>28277707
I'm not an accountant or anything though. That's my understanding and /biz/ seems to barely understand what capital gains even is, so I don't mind chiming in with the basics.

>>28277781
Nobody loves taxes, Anon. If you want to skirt the man, go ahead. I don't give a single fuck. I'm just here trying to help Anons understand what to do if they want to be on the up and up.

[Anonymous No.28277991]

>>28277392
So what happens if you didn't report it in years prior?

[Anonymous No.28278002]

>>28277910
>in the us, all web traffic is reported by your isp to the fbi,
Yeah, that's literally not true. If you are thinking NSA has free reigns, sure, but ISPs keep records at varying lengths (up to 2 years usually) only viewed via subpoena.

[Anonymous No.28278049]

>>28277876
anon you must not stack
the sensation of holding real wealth in your hands can be, well...addictive
buy yourself a couple of mercury dimes and let them rattle around in your pocket for awhile, and soon you'll be dragging your stack along on your mountain climbing adventures. after all, you might meet a troll and have to pay him off!

[Anonymous No.28278067]

>>28275561
That is literally the case here in Jew Zealand. My friend had 400k on kraken back in 2017, frozen by request of our tax department. I had close to 100k on poloniex, tried sneaking it out through NXT before it ate literal shit and poloniex delisted it not long after.
Cunts even managed to freeze my bitpay card with $400us in 2016 btc on it, gave the card to an American friend, he couldn't even use it.
Literally been a wagey ever since, can't even afford to be angry about it.
..
to clarify the stipulation for unfreezing was providing receipt of EVERYTHING. Every single trade, where the money came from, which account you transferred it from, declaration of all of your wallets..
if you've ever spent a night clicking sell, buy, sell, buy, sell, buy chasing 0.1% profits because you're bored - YOU'RE FUCKED

welcome to the real world dumbasses you can't escape

[Anonymous No.28278126]

>>28278002
>he hasn't heard of FISA
sure bro, you're safe

[Anonymous No.28278133]

>>28278002
You’re in denial

[Anonymous No.28278154]

>>28277991
You can file an amended return if you're anxious about it, but at that point I'd really meet with a tax specialist.

>>28278067
Thankfully the data is there. There are programs which will pull it all for you, but yeah, it's RETARDED when you consider swing trading.

[Anonymous No.28278181]

>>28277811
i think i get it... so if you're using binance by connecting through australia while being in the us, trading a bunch of whatever-not-us-legal-coins, then converting them to btc and sending them back, ur not technically breaking laws bc that is not considered us traffic?

[Anonymous No.28278198]

>>28275334
I just convert to BTC and buy gold online with it to cash out

[Anonymous No.28278222]

>>28278126
Yeah, but FISA isn't just willy nilly it has to go through a process (except if you are Trump).

>>28278133
Sure, buddy.

[Anonymous No.28278334]

>>28278002
kek

[Anonymous No.28278407]

>>28278067
We were fucked because we had used cryto for illicit purposes and declaring our wallets meant we were fucked.
Saw a young guy driving a new Jaguar with the plates BTCBOY or something similar the other day, fuck I wanted to jack him. Bet he thinks he's the fucking wolf of wall street with his wallet in the hands of the tax department.
Defeated the entire point of cryto for me, have a few thousand in forgotten alt wallets which fucking hurts considering I was in since $100btc

[Anonymous No.28278449]

>>28278222
>t. didn't read the OIG FISA report
the "process" is that one glowie has to say to another 'anon a bit aus' and boom they can open a preliminary
this allows them to rape your isp, where they will find all manner of shady international financial transactions: perfect evidence to declare you a terrorist financier and proceed to rape everyone you're ever talked to through an internet enabled device

the process 'works', just not for you
also nice numerals

[Anonymous No.28278460]

>>28278181
It's more like I don't think they'll look closely enough and the other party isn't allowed to sell to Americans more than you aren't allowed to find them. You can just say you didn't realize you were being scammed. The gubbment just wants their money.

[Anonymous No.28278542]

This thread has totally black pilled me. Oh shit. I was naive.

[Anonymous No.28278602]

>>28278154
Thanks man.

[Anonymous No.28278668]

>>28278460
okay i get it now. thanks anon this was very educational

[Anonymous No.28278705]

>>28278198
just be sure not to go over $10k in 24 hours desu

[Anonymous No.28278716]

>>28278668
Americans are cucked beyond belief, fuck the govt

[Anonymous No.28278745]

>>28278602
>>28278668
Cheers, Anons

[Anonymous No.28278771]

>>28278198
This. Best way to cash out.
Then sell the Gold / silver if you ever need some gay fiat

[Anonymous No.28278795]

>>28278407
to add to this they were doing other cunty shit like saying 'how do we know the previous wallet wasn't yours?' as in expecting a chain of reciepts for every random wallet that had paid into yours - and even a $1 discrepancy is enough to keep hundreds of thousands of dollars frozen indefinintely and they don't give a shit.
also my P key is sticky curse you orn

[Anonymous No.28278931]

>>28278716
in soviet new zealand government fucks You!

[Anonymous No.28279062]

>>28278198
What websites accept BTC to buy gold/slv?

[Anonymous No.28279173]

>>28277206
What the fuck country has that law for unrealized stock market gains?

[Anonymous No.28279237]

>>28279062
dude most of the bullion dealers accept crypto, even APMEX. Hope you enjoy getting raped because they know you're up to know good though

[Anonymous No.28279440]

>>28279173
Biden’s admin has fondled the idea. Coming to the US soon.

[Anonymous No.28279508]

>>28279440
Yeah, I know. But this idiot seems to be saying it's here and now.

[Anonymous No.28279899]

>>28279508
coming soon to a bumhole near yours

[Anonymous No.28280094]

If I go to a foreign country and cash out, do I still gotta pay US taxes?
Isn't that only if you make over 100k

[Anonymous No.28280254]

>>28280094
If I was an American with any decent amount in crypto I'd be looking for ratholes right fucking now.

[Anonymous No.28280372]

>>28280094
If you're a US citizen, you pay on every dollar no matter where in the universe you are.

[Anonymous No.28280431]

>cashing out
y tho?

[Anonymous No.28280430]

>>28275334

>IRS entered the chat.

[Anonymous No.28280562]

>>28278067
thanks mate BRB going all-in XMR

[Anonymous No.28281267]

>>28280431
how the hell am i supposed to buy anything?
>landlord doesn't accept crypto
>can't buy groceries with crypto
>can't pay bills with crypto

[Anonymous No.28281286]

>>28280562
good call don't keep it on the exchange

[Anonymous No.28281351]

I just checked Canadian law and it looks like it's similar to the US. Any swap at all needs to have profit calculated, and apparently I would have to learn how to file business taxes just so I can see if I can grow $1 into a big number for bragging rights?
https://bitbuy.ca/resources/guide/crypto-taxes-in-canada-a-updated-guide-by-bitbuy/

Fuckit, maybe I won't bother with crypto after all.

[Anonymous No.28281477]

>>28276904
>You need to pay taxes between years, so even if you haven't "cashed out" into fiat, you still owe on the gains from that year, meaning you'll need to pay out of pocket or cash out at least enough to cover your taxes.

Wtf are you talking about? You don't pay taxes for holding until you sell.

[Anonymous No.28281753]

>>28281477
they're literally talking about taxing 'unrealized gains', i.e your gainz you haven't cashed
yes it is a thing
yes you cunts fucked up by doing crypto trading 'by the book'
gimme a time machine and it'd be nothing but cold wallets and trades at Mc Donalds

[Anonymous No.28282059]

>>28280094
When I had foreign income exclusion it was up to 101k or something like that but all of that money I earned was 100% earned in that foreign country so I’m assuming they will buttfuck you because “cashing out” isn’t earning income in a foreign country.

[Anonymous No.28283357]

>>28282059
Correct. Investment income is not eligible under FEIE.

[Anonymous No.28283917]

>>28276904
this is why i got out of crypto as soon and this tax bullshit went into effect
its not fucking worth it anymore unless you get lucky and make a shit load of money to the point that covering taxes doesn't matter
fuck that jew Trump

[Anonymous No.28283947]

>>28279062
I buy online from Singapore or in person when I fly to Hong Kong

[Anonymous No.28284002]

>>28280094
If you are a US citizen you are tax cucked for life no matter where you go

[Anonymous No.28284373]

>>28277589
>Oh uhh so me holding all this btc since 2018 and not reporting it means I'm fucked eh?

only if you sold ya dingus. Since you held on for over a year you get taxed less (if you pull 40k max its all untaxed, anything after that follows their tax guidelines)

[Anonymous No.28284434]

>>28280094
normally you pay taxes as long as you are an american citizen
even if you earn and live in another country

[Anonymous No.28284703]

I'm trying to calculate taxes right now, and I was trading and swapping like a mad man. I have a couple questions.
1. Let's say that I bought and sold later that evening, and I did the same thing with the same coin the next night. Hypothetical. Should I report those as two different events on the f8949 fourm or can I roll them together?
2. If I swap from one coin to another, as I understand it, I would first mark it as a sale of the first coin, and make a new line for the purchase of the next one. Am I wrong here?
3. I've used Coinbase, Kraken, and Exodus. Are there any programs that could help me that are free?

[Anonymous No.28284866]

Bruh just don’t pay taxes and renounce your citizenship if you are a gay American
Stop funding white genocide by giving YOUR money to the Great Satan

[Anonymous No.28285289]

Wew reading this thread i'm almost glad i'm the only retard in the universe who managed to lose money at every single shitcoin trade i ever did.