/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.26217534]

Hey /biz/, a commie here. Explain to me why Marxist economics are wrong, I dare you.

[Anonymous No.26217600]

>>26217534
Lazy fags dont deserve free things. just like the lazy sparrow doesnt not get any worms

[NIGVESTER No.26217610]

Making money good. Living off other people bad.

[Anonymous No.26217622]

>>26217534
How much of your Crypto gains did you donate to joggers in your neighbourhood?

[Anonymous No.26217632]

>>26217534
>I pay you to build a house
>if I sell it at a profit I am exploiting your work
>if I sell it at exactly the price I paid you I am not exploiting you
>if I sell it at a lower price than what I paid you, ah no, this is impossible =)

[Anonymous No.26217770]

I don't feel like going into length responses rn, but I'll give you a quick run down.

Marxist economics are good on paper because you don't have to take in human nature as a variable. In reality, when Marxism is tried, greedy ass-hats gravitate towards positions of power and hoard wealth for themselves. The very thing Marxism attempts to fight against. Ironic.

Also, people are naturally selfish and want to be rewarded for their work. If you keep destroying incentives to work harder, innovate, etc. how do you expect society to stay stable or get anywhere? I know there are people out there who genuinely couldn't give a rat's ass about the money / material gain, but unfortunately that's not the majority.

I genuinely want to believe a system that preaches "sharing is caring" or "love another as you love yourself" would actually work, but time and time again I witness the absolute bitter nature of man.

[Anonymous No.26217873]

>>26217534
Real Communism is actually going to finally be achieved in our lifetimes thanks to the power of smart contracts. Thanks, Vitalik!

[Anonymous No.26217956]

>>26217534
Labor theory of value is just trash, an obvious arbitrary asspull.

You could just expose yourself to critiques of Marxism for the first time at your own leisure, tons of free books and articles here: https://mises.org/

Here's an example but there's tons of stuff there if you were actually curious: https://mises.org/wire/end-marxian-exploitation-theory

If you're not curious then I wouldn't want to spoon feed you... Most marxists are just attached to it for underlying emotional reasons hence why they hold the stupid lazy definition of capitalism as "whatever the economic system of the USA is" (because that's such a trivial strawman to critisize) and yet nothing can ever be said to be a true example of socialism on communism.

[Anonymous No.26218071]

>>26217534
>If you keep destroying incentives to work harder, innovate, etc. how do you expect society to stay stable or get anywhere?
By threatening the lives of the people they claim they are "freeing" like they usually do.

[Anonymous No.26218122]

>>26217534
Communism doesn’t bring equality by making everyone rich, it brings equality by making everyone poor

[Anonymous No.26218317]

>>26217534
Under marxist states, you go to work until you are told not to, you are rendered expendable if resources are insufficient, and your relationship to the state is that of a slave.
Under capitalism, you can at least hold your own property. The overwhelming majority of complaints about capitalism are due to a lack of financial education.
If you're concerned about the development of a society of control, marxism is not an exit from this problem, it simply shifts the control from consumerism oriented control structures to political control structures.
If you don't know what a society of control is, please read more philosophy before larping as a communist. Marx is economically learned within his own time period, however economics has come a long way since his day, and several flaws in his way of thinking are wildly exacerbated by modern day situations.

[Anonymous No.26218363]

>>26218122
>Communism doesn’t bring equality by making everyone rich, it brings equality by making everyone poor

Except for the small, ruling jewish caste.

[Anonymous No.26218415]

>>26217770
Yes, this. It all comes down to humans being driven by the attrition of status. We don't want to be equal.

[Anonymous No.26218422]

>>26217534
cuz its da jew

[Anonymous No.26218497]

>>26217534
What's up with /pol/ threads lately?

[Anonymous No.26218498]

>>26217534

You shouldn't be catered to because you exist. You earn your food, board and belongings, this applies to everyone. You don't deserve to be equal to someone if you are not as capable as they are.

[Anonymous No.26218519]

>>26217534
For one the Marxist definition of value is completely wrong. If he was right then Marketing is the most valuable labor there is.

[Anonymous No.26218536]

The state can't manage production and prices properly, it always fucks up somewhere. Also, lack of competition leads to lack of productivity. The only communism possible is that of a fully automated economy

[Anonymous No.26218650]

>>26217534
A true communist society (ie, stateless) cannot avoid the tragedy of the commons. Inevitably a state must form to administer communal property, and the only way it can do that is with force/violence. Even in a post-scarcity fantasy with star trek style replicators, you can't avoid the tragedy of the commons without either a system of private property or state tyranny.

It's as simple as that man.

[Anonymous No.26218832]

People don't do physical labor because they like to do it, they do it because it pays well.

Work in a coal mine and tell me if you'd do that for no major financial compensation.

[Anonymous No.26218898]

>>26217770
Sure, human nature's definitely the major failure for marxism, but even divorcing that fact communism would still fail. Their definition of interest is factually incorrect, and they likewise lack a functional concept of entropy, and how to overcome it economically. This is why every "communist" society that has survived (China and NoKo) are actually a literal fascist economy. State runs everything is still true, it's just that now the state can do business, that's the only difference. The fact that they call it communism still is funny to me because it shits on everything marxism ever financially was, and their only principle which was even remotely palatable: the only true bourgeoise you can find in a nation today exist in the CCP. Globalists are something different completely.
>>26218415
Well I'm better than you, why shouldn't it show in results? Why should I carry you for free? You're not my family, my friend, and any concept of filia that would be needed for me to care about you is dead.
When there is no in-group preference, like there isn't now, only small pocket groups survive. It's not about if the US falls now, it's about when, to who, and for how much. And it's weaklings like you that'll do it.
You should have just let the Christians control everything, it was better then for everyone. But you couldn't take that, and now you get this. Welcome to hell.

[Anonymous No.26219054]

>>26217534
The underlying economic principle of communism is the labor theory of value
>The labor theory of value (LTV) is a theory of value that argues that the economic value of a good or service is determined by the total amount of "socially necessary labor" required to produce it
We can give a few examples that easily disprove this
>Example 1: You are stranded on foot with no supplies in the hot desert 100 miles from the nearest civilization. A wandering nomad offers you either a a bottle of water or a diamond worth $1,000,000.
Obviously you pick the diamond since it took far less work to bottle water from a stream than mine a diamond from the earth, right? Does the value of the object change depending on external factors, or is it locked specifically on the labor hours to make the good?
>Example 2: You are lactose intolerant. Milk takes labor to produce. Is milk as valuable to you as to someone else?
I mean, if someone labored for it must be valuable, right?
>Example 3: You are a highly trained doctor. A patient comes in seeking a surgery that will take approximately 1 hour. The patient is a farmer and offers you an exchange of 1 hours worth of produce for the surgery. Factoring in the time to till the earth, fertilize the land, plant the crop, water the crop, harvest the crop, and process the crop down to grain, the farmer gives you a small sack of grain containing enough for approximately two servings. Is this a fair deal for both parties?
The labor theory of value was proposed by a sociologist with no economic background who never worked an honest day's work in his life. Karl Marx did his best to schmooze and never work while attempting to live the lifestyle he vilified as bourgeoisie.

[Anonymous No.26219094]

>>26218898
What? I didn't say humans being primarily status driven was a bad thing.

[Anonymous No.26219115]

>>26217534
in a marxist faggot society labor is valued. In a capitalist society your money works for you. in reality in communist society it's always the best parts of communism for the rich and they just get richer and for the poor it's fucked.

[Anonymous No.26219129]

>>26217534
First explain to me how forced labor camps are any better than working for a capitalist boss. At least I can change jobs without getting shot by the commissar.

[Anonymous No.26219134]

>>26217534
You would be killed for being a worthless eater. That is all. Nothing wrong about being a NEET, but you would be the first to be made into onions.

[Anonymous No.26219153]

>1 post by this ID

[Anonymous No.26219187]

Are you actually going to listen? There are several pitfalls involved. Chief being the fact that you need an all-powerful, centralized government state to manage and oversee this Marxist society and they inevitably become corrupt/power hungry/rotten and self enriching, not to mention actively oppressive. Happens every single time.

That's not even getting into the fact that humans simply won't work hard if there's no added benefit in doing so. Everyone gets lazy and ambitionless and dishonesty becomes the norm.

[Anonymous No.26219214]

>>26217534
>he doesn't know

[Anonymous No.26219531]

>>26218898
>You should have just let the Christians control everything

I'm kind of confused as to why Christians (not sure if you are one) gravitate towards ideologies like Republicanism and more importantly, Libertarianism. Don't Christians follow a faith that explicitly looks at human nature as evil, but to actively RESIST it at the same time? Is it the 'free-will' aspect of Libertarianism that draws Christians in?

Not supporting Marxism btw, just trying to get some insight.

[Anonymous No.26219683]

>>26217534

[Anonymous No.26220134]

>>26217534
its not wrong, mostly

[Anonymous No.26220434]

>>26217534
Explain on how you would kill supply and demand, somehow distribute goods without currency.
You can play shitty videogames like wow or any diablo clone and you will get an understanding of supply and demand and inflation within a week.