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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/biz/ - Business & Finance

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25919990 No.25919990 [Reply] [Original]

What would be the point of owning a hardware wallet like trezor or ledger if I can just create an Electrum wallet while offline, write down the seed, then delete the wallet and then just create a watch only electrum wallet with the master public key and watch it from there? What's the bottomline

>> No.25920013

Some people don't know that's an option or they're too lazy and just want a 1 click solution.

>> No.25920026
File: 80 KB, 555x631, 1607025620866.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25920026

>>25919990
You wouldn't be able to show off your high tech device to all the other bugmen on reddit if you did that

>> No.25920025

>>25919990
PRIVATE KEY NEVER EXPOSED OR RELEASED.

THAT'S THE FUCKING BOTTOMLINE.

>> No.25920130

>>25920025
If I track my crytpo form a watch only wallet the private key is never released either...

>> No.25920148

>>25919990
Valid if you plan to hold and keep the device offline, otherwise a hardware wallet is superior

>> No.25920150

>>25920025
>implying my 20 year old laptop with no internet connection at all will somehow expose or release a private key
>implying the chink foundry that made the RNG chip in these devices didn't add a subtle backdoor which ensures they'll be able to brute force everyone's keys and rugpull billions in a few years

>> No.25920253

>>25920148
So I just make a second wallet with just enough funds for day to day spending and keep the original wallet safe in cold storage.

>> No.25920608

>>25920130
sure thing, can you also send and receive easily on your WATCH ONLY WALLET?
>>25920150
>owning 20 year old tech
>implying an offline computer with a wallet is as comfortable and easy than a hardware wallet

bottomline:
>not being able to spend $50 on valuable hardware because too poor to afford
>wasting his worthless time hating why $50 security tech is good or not

>> No.25920804

>>25920253
wouldn't be as safe as signing off transactions on a hardware wallet

>> No.25920828

>>25919990
OH LOOK THE DAILY NEWFAG SHOULD I GET A HARDWARE WALLET THREAD. LEARN TO USE WAROSU FAGGOTS

>> No.25920829

>>25920150
>>implying the chink foundry that made the RNG chip in these devices didn't add a subtle backdoor which ensures they'll be able to brute force everyone's keys and rugpull billions in a few years

This just made me nervous.

>> No.25920854

>>25919990
electrum wallet doesn't support all my coins faggot

>> No.25920863
File: 20 KB, 306x306, pepe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25920863

it's another "im so much better than people who buy hardware wallets" thread

>> No.25921111

>>25920253
How do you fill that wallet?

>> No.25921181

>>25920608
>>owning 20 year old tech
I know your bugfriends on reddit won't be very impressed, but in the real world, pre-bitcoin tech has a 0% chance of having a compromised/backdoored random number generation or a secret way to phone home via cellular signals.

>>implying an offline computer with a wallet is as comfortable and easy than a hardware wallet

1) Print a crapload of them
2) When you need them, scan the QR code and move funds in/out
3) Discard after use

OMG ITS SOO HARD!

>>25920829
>This just made me nervous.
As it should. It's very, very hard to detect rng backdoors, this one was out in the open in Debian's open source code for literally years and nobody noticed:
https://it.slashdot.org/story/08/05/13/1533212/debian-bug-leaves-private-sslssh-keys-guessable

>> No.25921593

>>25920150
>>25921181
>>implying the chink foundry that made the RNG chip in these devices didn't add a subtle backdoor which ensures they'll be able to brute force everyone's keys and rugpull billions in a few years
you could still generate a seed on your offline laptop(because you're SO sure that it's rng isn't compromised) and then load it into a hardware wallet which would allow you to use it as a hot wallet while the keys are still in cold storage. but if you just wanna hold without doing any trading/defi/anything at all, you can just write down the seed and forget it

>> No.25921672

>>25921593
>you could still generate a seed on your offline laptop(because you're SO sure that it's rng isn't compromised)
Why would a laptop made before bitcoin existed be backdoored to generate weak bitcoin wallet keys? Vs a device literally built to hold bitcoin. Which do you think is more likely?

>> No.25921736

>>25921672
as you said yourself, there was a debian rng backdoor/bug for years any nobody noticed. it makes sense that an rng chip in a hardware wallet would be more likely to be backdoored, but a faulty generic software rng in an OS getting discovered would still mean people could abuse it to find all the keys it used to generate
and you ignored my main point which is that if you generate a key in a "safe" way it's still useful to import it into a hardware wallet because then you can use it as a hot wallet while still not exposing your keys

>> No.25921798

>>25919990
>your computer has a virus
>virus steals your seed
>virus waits for you to connect to the internet
>virus sends seed to random poojeet who steals your bitcorns

>> No.25921890

>>25919990
black lives matter

>> No.25921939

I have a ledger but maybe should switch to Coldcard since it seems more secure. All open source, transparent case, tamper detection indicator, offline signing, allows user generated entropy using dice so you aren't depending on the built in RNG.

I've never heard of anyone losing their keys from a Ledger though. If there were chink backdoors seems like they would have been used or discovered by now

>> No.25921965

>>25919990

Some of us anon's have time that is actually valuable.

>> No.25922036

yeticold.com provides instructions for securely generating and storing keys entirely offline. But desu it seems like overkill and is a huge time consuming pain in the ass. If you had millions in BTC though probably worth it

>> No.25922070

>he's in crypto, and yet can't afford a measly $60 for a Trezor

>> No.25922099

>>25920025
What about the china man that is making them and looking at seed phrases before boxing them up?

>> No.25922161

>>25921890
FAKE NEWS

>> No.25922266

>>25921736
then dont use debian.

>> No.25922318

>>25922266
why did you make this post? did you think it was an actual argument? did you think you were making a joke? i am actually stunned

>> No.25922357

>>25922266
you don't even know what is debian, retard

>> No.25922436

>>25919990
It’s basically the difference between Linux and a Mac. For 99% of people the Mac will be a better experience that saves time and lets them get to work. For the 1% of autists who have time to waste Linux is the better option.

>> No.25922677

>>25922266
>>25922357
use a different OS then you fucking retard, take the hand out of your fucking pants and do something productive for once in your life.

>> No.25922773

>>25919990
Maybe you should learn how to use a fucking search engine and learn how keyloggers work before asking stupid shit and getting rid of other threads

>> No.25923017

>>25922070
>spending money means it's good
lol

>> No.25923170

>>25921939
>I've never heard of anyone losing their keys from a Ledger though. If there were chink backdoors seems like they would have been used or discovered by now
Assuming they're not willing to play the long game. Instead of sniping 10 people's wallets in month one like high time preference niggers, they wait years and years and years until billions and billions of dollars are on the devices all over the world and then snap.

Keep in mind the wallet manufacturers might be clean, the chinese foundry or chinese government could be inserting the backdoor. They hid an entire fucking spychip microchip in millions of motherboards sold to high end server manufacturers and didn't get caught for years: https://www.pcmag.com/news/does-your-motherboard-have-a-secret-chinese-spy-chip

Keep in mind a compromised RNG would only require a very subtle logic change to the chips, not even an additional chip or circuit. There is almost no chance they would get caught doing this until after the rugpull and the stakes are very high. But we get it, you're super duper smart so this can't happen to you. lmao.

>> No.25923172

>>25919990
its called "ease of use"

>> No.25923216
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25923216

>>25919990
A hardware wallet isn't about "security" it's about "simplicity."
Your question boils down to, "why would I store my cash money in my wallet in my pocket, instead of depositing my cash into my bank account"
They're different things for different purposes.
The hardware wallet offers portability, so you can make transfers by using a PIN input on the device itself, rather than having to generate your wallet on any computer that you want to use, typing in your private key or passphrase onto a potentially unknown computer, etc.

But yes, if you just want a place to store your ETH, then any wallet will do, and a harware wallet isn't necessarily the answer.

>> No.25923279

>>25919990
I agree, this is the superior method, just use Tails Live Linux from a USB-thumb drive instead of your day-to-day system.

>> No.25923384

Atomic Wallet is dogshit and they steal money from people. That's why I use a hardware wallet.

>> No.25923412

>>25923384
>Atomic Wallet is dogshit and they steal money from people
Link? I actually use atomic as one of my hot wallets.

>> No.25923482

>>25923170
>The only problem is the lack of evidence. So far, no one has released details of this Chinese spy chip. Nor has anyone ever publicly reported finding it.

So "China" implanted a secret spy chip that is so secret there is no evidence and nobody has found it, and all OEMs deny it. Well sounds like a real cause for concern.

Imagine what would happen if such a scenario were to occur. Value of Bitcoin would plummet and the thieves would have a very hard time selling or using the stolen coins as the addresses would be blacklisted. It's a bit like miners attacking the network would destroy the value of the network so there's little incentive to do so. The whole "super secret Chinese backdoor that no one can find and there is no evidence for" sounds like a bunch of fear porn to me.

>> No.25923493

>>25923412
Personal experience. I wrote to their tech support about it and then saw that ALL of my transaction history on the wallet was DELETED! Believe me, or don't. They are crooks!

>> No.25923709

>>25923493
Shit, what is a better Hotwallet then?

>> No.25923860

>>25923482
>Imagine what would happen if such a scenario were to occur. Value of Bitcoin would plummet and the thieves would have a very hard time selling or using the stolen coins as the addresses would be blacklisted.
Just like when mtgox was hacked. How bitcoin lost all its value and nobody ever used it and the thieves were never able to sell their coins. Got it.

>sounds like a bunch of fear porn to me
It could be, but it is possible and should be considered when deciding whether to use a hardware wallet. Keep in mind people and governments do carry out sophisticated criminal actions in order to get literally billions of dollars. To think otherwise is completely naive.

>> No.25923920

>>25920828
i swear ive seen the same dumb questions asked here since 2017

>> No.25924107

>>25923860
Any computer is at risk if people are planting spy chips in everything. How do you know your CPU doesn't have a secret key loggers that sends every keystroke you type straight to Xi Jinping? How do you know Bitcoin core doesn't have some super secret backdoor buried in the code that will send all your coins to the devs?All computers and all software involve some level of trust. You can do your best to minimize it but you can't cut it out entirely.

>> No.25924169

What's the difference between a hot wallet and a cold wallet?

>> No.25924389

>>25924169
temperature

>> No.25924393

>>25924169
Cold wallet means an offline wallet not connected to the internet. Hot wallet means wallet on your internet connected computer

>> No.25924415

>>25919990
keylogger steals your key then when you turn online sends them to his master.
if you never plan to turn online then goodluck finding a pc cheaper than a 50$ trezor one

>> No.25924472

>>25924389
thats a hot pocket, anon

>> No.25924487

>>25920608
Wow I didn't know ledger fagboys existed. You mad that intelligent people know how to make your $50 reddit tech obsolete? It's okay I know redditors aren't actually as tech savy as they claim to be, so they really rely on ledgers/trezors to store their crypto.

>> No.25924547

>>25924487
but it doubles as a u2f

>> No.25924801

>>25920829
There is no such thing as software random number generators. Software is incapable of generating random numbers. I spent hours paranoid researching the quality of randomness provided by ledger. As fucking stupid as they are for keeping that database online they do use a hardware TRNG to generate keys and I think the possibility of the TRNG being backdoored is less than 0.001%

>> No.25924944

>>25924801
>the possibility of the TRNG being backdoored is less than 0.001%
Yes, of course, the chinese wouldn't dream of backdooring a chip to effortlessly steal billions of dollars. You know that CCP and those chinese businessmen, they're always upright and honest in all of their dealings.

>> No.25925205

>>25924944
>load ze Chinese fud
You sound like a Qtard conspiracy theorist tbqh. Do you have any facts to go with your deranged ramblings or is it all just unhinged paranoia?

>> No.25925336

>>25923170

Just use a 25th passprashe word retard

>> No.25925442

>>25924944

literally as I said all your problems can be solved by the 25th passphrase, even if the RNG was backdoored then your passphrase would add a layer of encryption. You could even share your seeds with everyone and you would still be ok.

>> No.25925705

>>25919990
you are 100% correct. I do exactly what you mentioned. If you are paranoid. Create a sandbow with virtualbox and linux and just do yoru crypto shit in there as well.

>> No.25925870
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25925870

>>25925205
>You sound like a Qtard conspiracy theorist tbqh

>> No.25926513

>>25919990
it's easier to have one wallet tool for multiple currencies.

I don't want to have to do this every time I decide to invest in a new crypto - it's just easier to let my hw wallet manage it.

>> No.25926579

>>25920829
>>25924801
>>25924944
>>25921181
Trezor first generates a 256b number on its microcontroller, then requests one from the hosts OS, then hashes them together with SHA-256. Unlike ledger the firmware is open source too. You're safe if you made the right choice.