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25861244 No.25861244 [Reply] [Original]

>turn 20k into 60k in 3 months
>I cashed out at 40k BTC so I could buy in lower after it finished dumping
>cashing out triggered a capital gain so after taxes I have 48k left
>I bought back in at 30k BTC but realize I’m back to where I started and it would have made no difference if I had HODLed through the dump

Ffs taxes are so retarded

>> No.25861302

>>25861244
You don't know what cashed out means.

>> No.25861321
File: 55 KB, 600x600, 6ee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25861321

>> No.25861353

>>25861244
who the fuck cashed out when you can just tether it with usdc jfc

>> No.25861362

You paid 28 something percent tax?
Boohoo

>> No.25861365

>>25861302
/thread

>> No.25861372

Taxes are op, which is why you should just hold forever until your investment reaches the point where you can buy a house or something with it.

>> No.25861432

>>25861244
Yep, I was gonna move to fiat for the dump and buy more lower but I woulda had a 40k tax on it and said fuck that.

>> No.25861443

>>25861244
HODLing ain't just a meme nig

>> No.25861460

>>25861353
new fags from reddit that's who

>> No.25861463

>>25861353
You still have to pay taxes for that brainlet

>> No.25861467

>>25861372
Thats my plan now. I just want a house out this with no mortgage.

>> No.25861486

>>25861244
Why did you cash to your bank

>> No.25861494

>>25861244

This is why brainlets need to take the Roth IRA/GBTC pill. You pay 0 taxes

>> No.25861504

>>25861467
same here with 14 eth, a decent downpayment would be nice

>> No.25861569

Its not worth selling.

iron hands mother fuckers

>> No.25861578

>>25861504

I already got the decent down, I just need that to finish the race and cross the line for the whole deal. My ETH stack is to buy the land, then I got a stack to build the house. Then I got a stack to help the years that follow. I really hope things work out for us all.

>> No.25861697

>>25861244
Now you increased your cost basis and pay less tax in the future genius

>> No.25861746

>>25861244
Thank you for generating money for the government

>> No.25861777

Guys I sold on coinbase........

>> No.25861848

>>25861486
You pay taxes on crypto to anything even if it doesnt go to your bank

>> No.25862018

>>25861848
Why

>> No.25862020

>>25861777

Don't they have a 20K/200 transaction rule or something before they let IRS know anything?

>> No.25862054

>>25862018
Cus they quit viewing crypto like it was real estate in the last year or two.

>> No.25862059

do u have to pay taxes if u just transfer to another crypto

>> No.25862084

>>25862059
In the USA, yes you do.

>> No.25862122

>>25862084
what if i use a vpn or something

>> No.25862131

>>25861244
I know that feel anon, but on the bright side it might’ve helped me not be a degenerate and swing my linkies

>>25861353
anon, I...

>> No.25862133

>>25861463
Technically yes, but so long as you swap on a non-KYC'd exchange it's not going to fucking matter. You don't ACTUALLY report crypto-to-crypto swaps you do outside of places that report to the IRS like coinbase, do you?

>> No.25862168

what if i put my BTC into my retired parent's name who has minimal annual income. couldn't i then take out like 50k/year with 0% capital gains tax?

>> No.25862197

>>25862020
I'm still unclear on what actually triggers CB to alert the IRS. If I hold more than $20k worth of stuff on my CB account, but don't sell anything there, does that trigger the event? Or do you still need to sell something while holding at least $20k? Or is it selling $20k worth of stuff?

>> No.25862333

>>25861244
Are you me?
Did the same thing but didn't go back into BTC at 30k because I don't think its done dumping yet.
The USA definitely doesn't want any citizen to get rich.

>> No.25862445

>>25861244
this why HODL isn't a meme.

>> No.25862472

>>25862133
The taxman can follow those on open blockchains

>> No.25862477

>>25861244
You did well, anon. Maybe in nominal terms CURRENTLY you have the same amount after taxes, but you now have 11 months and more BTC to work with. I don't see the issue.

>> No.25862487

>>25862122
Well then if you move I think anything over 10k into a bank be prepared to explain where it came from cus the bank will let the IRS know you moved that money. The only people I know who try to scam the IRS are those who think they are just too smart to be caught. Most adults, not kid's want to avoid legal issues with the IRS. They don't go away and they can fuck you up good. Remember, they can access and take anything you have in a bank, any wages you get paid.etc. And you WILL have to pay for a lawyer.

>> No.25862508

>>25861578
Good luck to you. Sounds like a truly worthwhile goal

>> No.25862512

uhh excuse me tax evasion is against the law???
i can't believe what im reading in this thread

>> No.25862549

>>25862197
>If I hold more than $20k worth of stuff on my CB account, but don't sell anything there, does that trigger the event?


Nope it doesn't. Buying and holding triggers nothing. Only selling or converting does.

>> No.25862671

>>25862508
Thanks man. And to you to in what you are aiming for as well.

>> No.25862684

>>25862472
Not going to happen. Have you actually looked at what info goes on a 1099 for capital gains? So long as you show funds going into crypto and crypto being cashed out to fiat, and giving them their percentage on the difference, they're not going to give a shit. You seriously overestimate the capacity of the boomers and shaniquas at those offices to look into this shit.

>>25862549
That's good to know. I bought all my crypto on coinbase pro and plan on selling it at another exchange like gemini.

>> No.25862749

>>25862477
Two problems there
1) having less overall money in crypto means fewer gains in 2021. You could of course just not withhold any for taxes, but then you're playing a dangerous game where everything crashes and all your paper gains go to the taxman and you walk with nothing
2) depending on timeframe, you can end up having two short-term gains rather than a single long-term. Which means a significant tax hike

>> No.25862787

>>25862684
Exactly. They're struggling with billions of dollars in money laundering and you think they're worried if you paid the right amount on your crypto gains? They'll just be happy you actually filed, because a significant portion of traders still don't. If you're worried, run it through Monero

>> No.25862788

>>25861353
>owns about 30k more in BTC
>BTC goes up another 1/3
>pumps 48k to 63k

>> No.25862848

Oh, BUT here is the kicker. If you are unemployed...like many here just may be. You have to pay 0% Cap Gains taxes 9if amounts are not huge.

Here is a calc to give ideas of what you might face.

https://smartasset.com/investing/capital-gains-tax-calculator#lXLvvbTROn

>> No.25862872

>>25862133
USDC is directly linked to government trackers. You'd be better using DAI if that's your strategy.

>> No.25863000

>>25862787
I always find it laughable that they think the IRS is going to go through fucking etherscan and manually piece together your history of uniswap shitcoin flips. They do not give a shit, and just want people to make an "honest effort" to report gains.

>> No.25863018

>>25862848
In America I think anyone under 40k does not pay capital gains until they cross that threshold.

>> No.25863047

>>25863000
how can i buy and sell BTC without the US Govt even knowing about it at all?

>> No.25863124

>>25862872
What about other stablecoins like pax or whatever? My main concern with DAI is that its peg can be unstable, especially during times of high volatility. I'll need to look more into this "government trackers of USDC" thing.

>>25863047
You'd need to buy/sell locally then, dealing in cash. Not exactly ideal. There are also bitcoin ATMs, but the fees/spreads on those things are so bad that you might as well just pay taxes anyway.
And even if you did all that and got rich off bitcoin and were somehow about to cash out locally and get 6-7 figures worth of paper dollars, you still wouldn't really be able to do anything with them. If you bought a house or car with cash, it'd be reported to the IRS. Then you'd get red flagged and audited and they'd demand to know how the fuck some NEET became a millionaire out of nowhere.

I'm not trying to avoid crypto taxes. I'm just trying to avoid full-retard bullshit taxes like reporting every single crypto-to-crypto move and paying taxes even when I haven't cashed out any fiat.

>> No.25863138

>>25861244
If you sold and made 40k profit you need to pay taxes on thst 40k. However if you sold at a loss ou can use that to counter any gains you made. You can't use it as a loss until you sell it tho.

>> No.25863203

>>25863018
Yeah there are some trigger factors that all effect if and how much you gotta pay. Best always to see what each scenario will bring about before just clicking.

>> No.25863206

>>25862054
not an amerifag, my cunt treats it as property and we don't have a capital gains or property tax.

>> No.25863225

>>25863124
try TUSD (not USDT) instead. crazy aave APY (~18%) and you can use it for crypto.com debit card balance.

>> No.25863227

>>25863124
thanks, that makes sense. i really don't know shit about BTC. i've never bought any before. did i miss the party or should i still buy? i'm thinking of waiting a couple months in case it goes back down

>> No.25863284

>>25863206
That's great for you man. Wish it was still like that for us in the USA. Well at least we got the Kardashians.

>> No.25863326

>>25863124
>>25863225
also, if you need cash then take out a blockfi loan. you put up crypto as collateral, then pay back ~3-4% APR on the loan instead of the ~35% CGT. And you keep your collateral, which will go up in value over time, as long as you don't default on the loan.

>> No.25863371

>>25863284
I'm sure there are ways you guys can avoid the IRS if you're sneaky enough.
But depends if you can live with the paranoia I suppose.

>> No.25863373

>>25863000
this. absolutely absurd. the gov is so fucking inept. some boomer waiting for his pension to kick in is not going on etherscan and looking your shit up unless you do some egregious cash out to your savings account mommy and daddy setup for you at 12 years old

>> No.25863406

>>25861244
This is why I trade to DAI. I don't have much so it's easy for me to get raped by taxes.

>> No.25863433

>>25863227
I'm absolutely terrible about timing the markets. Things seem overextended still, but I also believe the 4 year cycle narrative and think we'll continue upwards throughout 2021, possible even into early 2022.
I just got really lucky with the corona crash, where I went all-in because it was so extremely underpriced and I knew the 2021 bullrun would be a thing. But nowadays? No clue. Safest answer is always to DCA (dollar cost average)

>>25863225
oh yeah, I forgot about TUSD. I'll definitely be doing that then.
My overall plan right now is to *try* to cash out near the peak later this year, possibly laddering at different price targets. Transfer over to stablecoins and stake those on AAVE or another lending program while I wait until late 2022 for the bear market to stabilize, then reenter at a discount. Only cashing out to fiat what I need to buy a house or whatever. Pay for things with a crypto credit card.

>> No.25863491

>>25863371
Great strategy for teh kid who thinks he cann avoid it , go fo it. But most responsible adults would rather avoid fucking around with the IRS. If you operate in the system as most do, maybe not NEETs, but if you got a career and a home and a wife/kids whatever.. getting into trouble is just a costly interaction that brings about some potential long term issues. Easiest stress free choice is to just bite the bullet and pay the taxes due.

>> No.25863609

>>25863000
No, they don't do that. They will let YOU do that work and tell them which trades you did exactly to arrive at your final profit. And if you can't, you'll pay the maximum percentage. Or just go to jail for money laundering.

>> No.25863632

>>25863433
>late 2022 for the bear market to stabilize
so you think that will be the lowest point before the next spike?

>Pay for things with a crypto credit card.
actually wouldn't this be a great way to avoid capital gainz?

>> No.25863669

>>25863632
>actually wouldn't this be a great way to avoid capital gainz?
Pretty sure in America you still have to pay taxes if you buy stuff with crypto.

>> No.25863690

>>25861244
welcome to the world

>> No.25863714

>>25861244
just hold until there is no US/IRS around to take your money

>> No.25863739

>>25862749
>1)
He wouldn't have less overall money if he bought back in lower though. He'd have more assets to get gains with, not less. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you meant.
If everything crashes before the year is over then he can just sell to wipe out any taxes he would've owed on (then) realized gains. As far as the scenario where everything crashes AFTER the year is over, I'd set aside the funds to cover your gains tax before the current year ends. Then it's on you if you want to continue playing the game with the rest, being fully aware that you might simply be using your gains to pay taxes on those gains in the event that it crashes while you're still holding.
Ultimately, if you have paper gains and the calendar is about to turn to a new year, I would honestly just cash out completely and rebase after allocating my funds and calculating my tax bill. Treat the next year as a fresh slate after accounting for this.
>2)
True, you should always aim for long-term capital gains if possible. But I'd rather be taxed on gains than hold and lose.
When I went from thinking on a "tax basis" (always thinking in terms of: if I make this trade I'll owe X taxes) to a "trade to make money" basis, my portfolio went from slowly up and down to tripling in a couple months just from buying low and selling high, jumping from project to project.

>> No.25863748

>>25863632
>so you think that will be the lowest point before the next spike?
Historically based off previous cycles, yeah. I don't claim to know the exact bottom ever, but generally entering a few months to a year after The Big Crash is a good idea so long as you're willing to chill there for a couple years for the next major bull run cycle.

>actually wouldn't this be a great way to avoid capital gainz?
Technically you're supposed to pay taxes when you convert crypto to any goods/service. Although this really is unenforceable except for large purchase like cars/property.

>>25863609
Yeah, okay dude. All they're going to give a shit about is money going into the exchanges, money coming out of the exchanges, and their cut of the net gains.

>> No.25863848

>>25861244

That’s not true. Even if after paying taxes you’re back at the amount you originally had, you have paid to bring your cost basis up much higher than it originally was. Which means that if you lose everything next year realize those losses, you have capital losses you can carry forward to offset future taxes. Or if the btc you just bought back becomes 300k that you sell next year, you will pay less in cap gains tax. Do you understand? You’ve raised your cost basis.

>> No.25863932

>>25863848
True. That is a good point. After the first initial hit from the initial big gains the rest are helped by the cost basis being adjusted going forward.

>> No.25863942

I think you did your taxes wrong. You gained $40k but you paid $12k, which is a rate of 30%. That’s not a thing no matter your tax bracket or the how long you’ve held.

>> No.25863961

>>25863748
is it easy to sell your BTC (for fiat) during a spike? i would think nobody wants to buy when the price is so high

>Technically you're supposed to pay taxes when you convert crypto to any goods/service. Although this really is unenforceable except for large purchase like cars/property.
so you are saying it might work as a way to avoid cap gains tax?

>> No.25863982

lol why did you buy back in so soon. you know its gonna drop to like 10k.

>> No.25864061

>>25863961
Possibly. I have no experience with it so can't say for certain. But keep in mind that at most it'd only be a good method for small-scale purchases. Daily life stuff, consoomer stuff, etc. Paying for big-ticket items (again, cars, house, etc) would automatically get reported to the IRS (similar to paying cash) and pretty much guarantee you get slapped with an audit.

the market determines the spot price. If the exchange has something listed for a price, it's because, at that moment, there are people looking to buy at that price.

>> No.25864078

>>25863942
It depends on his federal income tax bracket. And it sounds like it was short term hold so 30% is not out range.

>> No.25864106

>>25863982
10k isn't happening. You remind me of the bobos that were still around after the corona crash. Even though there was cheap BTC/ETH/LINK/etc all around, they were still too pussyfoot to buy in, saying dumb shit like "I'll buy in when the 3.5k CME gap gets filled!!!!"

Not that it can't dump some more, but the floor is probably 20k, worst case scenario.

>> No.25864115

>>25864061
>Possibly. I have no experience with it so can't say for certain. But keep in mind that at most it'd only be a good method for small-scale purchases. Daily life stuff, consoomer stuff, etc. Paying for big-ticket items (again, cars, house, etc) would automatically get reported to the IRS (similar to paying cash) and pretty much guarantee you get slapped with an audit.
wouldn't the capital gains thing be the only reason to even use a crypto credit/debit card in the first place? otherwise what's the point? i'd rather use my normal card and get rewards points

>Paying for big-ticket items (again, cars, house, etc) would automatically get reported to the IRS (similar to paying cash
how though? does coinbase report it or something?

>> No.25864140

>>25861244
did u just convert to fiat just to buy a dip?

>> No.25864165
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25864165

>>25861302
What does it mean? Does cashing out mean taking the fund out of the exchange to your bank? Because from what I read, crypto to fiat is a taxable event as well as crypto to crypto.

>> No.25864186

>>25863961
Usually anything over 10k is gonna draw attention. So if you can just nickel and dime stuff then sure like drug dealers just spendingn their cash you may draw no notice. But REAL purchases are a lil different. And unlike drug dealers you have to get cash from an exchange into your hands some how to eve spend. Hard to avoid banks if a lot of cash.

>> No.25864192

>>25861244
WRONG. you only pay tax on the gains.

>> No.25864209

>>25864115
Because spending money via a crypto card could mean needing to cash out less to fiat. And cashing out less means reporting less to the IRS. Even if technically you are supposed to report when you just buy something with crypto too. This also allows you to keep your money in crypto (as stablecoins or whatever else) and keep them in defi earning good APY rather than a bank where it earns nothing.

>> No.25864299

>>25864186
thanks, but what exactly will draw their attention? like what mechanism would they use to even notice it? if i just went to the bank and deposited $9999 it doesn't trigger anything right?

>> No.25864312
File: 110 KB, 1080x1080, 128642.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25864312

Has anyone figured out how to obscure the movement of tokens from KYC exchanges into private wallets? I know that kind of defeats the entire idea of BTC, but is there anything else?

>> No.25864327

>>25864115
Yes, CB will report to IRS once a certain threshold has been crossed. So will your bank and other financial institutions. If you buy a car, boat, plane, home the gov knows about it. You have to register it in your name after all..

>> No.25864346

Can't you just reinvest it all and then sell later to pay taxes when you're actually filing?

>> No.25864352

>>25864209
>Because spending money via a crypto card could mean needing to cash out less to fiat.
i thought it does cash out to fiat every time you use the card, no?

>>25864327
>CB will report to IRS once a certain threshold has been crossed
anyway to know what that threshold is? i think for a normal bank it's 10k

>> No.25864353

>>25864209
This is interesting, I didn't know that was possible. What card are you using for this?

>> No.25864378

>>25864352
>>25864327
10k at one time will definitely get attention. But oer the course of a year?

>> No.25864412

>>25864299
When a cash deposit of $10,000 or more is made, the bank or financial institution is required to file a form reporting this. This form reports any transaction or series of related transactions in which the total sum is $10,000 or more. So, two related cash deposits of $5,000 or more also have to be reported.

So, yeah, $9999 you should be good. Maybe a series of those like the bank scene in Sicario implies would allow you to quietly go unnoticed. But the big purchases still will get noticed if made still.

>> No.25864466

>>25864352
For CB it is as follows that triggers a 1099-K

Does Coinbase Report to the IRS?
In short, it depends.

Coinbase sends a certain 1099 to both you (the account owner) and the IRS if you meet certain qualifying factors.

1099-K
As detailed on their tax resource page, you will be eligible to receive a 1099-K if:

You are a Coinbase Pro or Coinbase Prime customer
You executed 200 trades or more, whose total value is equal to or greater than $20,000* (OR met your state’s 1099-K reporting thresholds)
You are subject to US taxes


So, 20K/200 trade rule is in effect.

>> No.25864488

>>25864466
Forgot last part

If you meet all three of these requirements, Coinbase will send you AND the IRS a copy of 1099-K.

NOTE - 1099-K reports your gross transaction proceeds from Coinbase. It does NOT report your gains and losses. 1099-K is not the document you use for reporting your crypto taxes.

>> No.25864561

If they want to fuck you they can with FINRA violations. I wouldn't risk it.

>> No.25864639

The more I grow to mature, the more I see how much of a dog shit country the US truly is. What a fucking joke.

>> No.25864646

>>25864412
Structuring your cash deposits to evade reporting is a crime itself and you will be reported FYI dont do this

>> No.25864725

>>25864639
a lot of countries have similar or even higher capital gains taxes than the US

>> No.25864764

>>25864725
If you sell before holding a year it counts as regular income in Germany so you get taxed 42% and 5.5% and church tax on top of it. On the other hand of you sell after holding over a year its tax free so that's cool

>> No.25864779

>>25864639

Welcome to adulthood. It's awesome huh!

>> No.25864832

>>25864764
>invest $100
>haha I doubled my money
>authoriniggers take half and you're pretty much back where you started
What the fuck then you're left with almost nothing. How is this any different than theft?

>> No.25864843

>>25863124
mUSD through metastable is good.

>> No.25864852

>>25863206
Where on earth do you live then? Some Pacific island?

>> No.25864906

>>25864832
Is this bait

>> No.25865003
File: 124 KB, 500x545, 1554821800287.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25865003

>tfw have to send paper mail to disclose my binance account next year
if you're going to steal my money, at least make it practical

>> No.25865070

>>25864832
despite the obvious math error, yes it is theft but you can't do anything about it unless you're fine with looking over your shoulder for decades

>> No.25865135

>>25861244
>What is Wrapped Bitcoin
>What is MetaMask
Imagine being fucking retarded

>> No.25865145

>>25861244
It made a difference, next time you cash out you owe less taxes since your acq. price is higher

>> No.25865148

>>25864646
Yeah, it is not the honest way to go obviously. Certainly the character in Sicario was not an upstanding citizen doing it..lol

>> No.25865240

>>25865135
you need to cash out at some point and will be taxed then (and even higher since your assets will be considered as bought at $0)

>> No.25865365

>>25865240
No you don't. You take out a loan with your crypto as collateral. You don't get taxed on the loan, and the APR is smaller than the capital gains as long as you're not stupid with repaying. And you get to keep your crypto, which goes up in value over time, as long as you pay back the loan. Rinse and repeat. Plus it will become easier to pay for things directly with crypto over time.

>> No.25865548

>>25865135
>>25865365
>What is Wrapped Bitcoin
>What is MetaMask
what is it though actually?
can you explain this to a retard?

>> No.25865587

>>25861244
The moral of the story is hodl, at the very least, to get the LT capital gains rate.

Anyway, depending on OPs other income, I'm assuming none, at 40k for the year, this is about 12%

Realize also the fee losses: 500 on the 20k, 1000 on the 40k (assuming a 2.5% commission)

>> No.25865771

>>25865548
Not sure why you're asking me, but:

WBTC is an ERC20 token on the ETH blockchain that is backed 1-1 with BTC, so the value is always very close to the value of real BTC.

Metamask is an ETH wallet browser extension that interacts with hardware wallets and allows you to use Uniswap and other decentralized ERC20 token exchanges.

As for why you would want WBTC instead of BTC, it's because you can store it in your ETH wallet like the rest of your shitcoins and stablecoins, and exchange it for other shitcoins and stablecoins on DEX's like Uniswap. You don't need to trust any centralized exchanges that way when trading back and forth between BTC and USD stablecoins. Gas prices are a real bitch though.

>> No.25865785

>>25865365
>You take out a loan with your crypto as collateral
in what fucking fantasy world?

>> No.25865838

>>25861494
Can I trade shitcoins tax free tho

>> No.25865844

>>25865785
https://blockfi.com/crypto-loans/

How new to this are you?

>> No.25865893

>>25861372
Or never cash out, just make passive income on blockfi or sell covered calls

>> No.25866011

>>25862848
Why do you make it sound like it's a bad thing?

>> No.25866047

>>25865771
>You don't need to trust any centralized exchanges that way when trading back and forth between BTC and USD stablecoins
so the overall advantage here is avoiding capital gains tax?

>> No.25866095

>>25863373
Same retards who think Trump paid his taxes lmfao

>> No.25866104

>>25863225
>crazy aave APY (~18%)
Sounds totally legitimate

>> No.25866126

>>25866011
Oh it is not. It is a nice lil caveat for those who just been chilling making serious bank. They can just take out 40-50k and live nicely each year doing what they love to do. shitpost on /biz/. You don't much if you already have been in the EET lifestyle for years already. Now to have cash without the tax hit. That's nice if it works for you. Not bad at all.

>> No.25866149
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25866149

at least my shithole does zero tax cash outs and even have accreditted channels licensed by the central bank to use so that banks won't suspect you for money laundering

>> No.25866182

>>25865365
Anon can you elaborate a little bit more on this? This is really interesting

>> No.25866262

>>25866126
So hypothetically if im unemployed, but im collecting unemployment, i won't have to pay taxes on my crypto gains? Even if im making bank?

>> No.25866309

>>25866262
capital gains is taxed at ordinary income based on your tax bracket, which you can find search for tax brackets 2021

>> No.25866339 [DELETED] 

>>25865548
Dont listen to him. Don’t be greedy and pay your taxes. He’s trolling because he wants you to go to prison

>> No.25866399
File: 409 KB, 703x438, Screen-Shot-2018-06-19-at-12.46.37-PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25866399

OP I panic sold a portion of my holdings during the dip and then panic bought back in right away at a slightly higher price

I increased my average cost by a couple hundred AND incurred about $1500 in cap gains taxes

FUCKING HELL godamnit I do this every time. I've made so much but I would have made so much more if I just HODLED instead of trying to swing or panic sell or time the market every time godamnit.

>> No.25866415

>>25866339
i guess the mods want me to go to jail too?

>> No.25866448

>>25866047
that's one of the advantages. you also don't need to worry about (((coinbase is down))) during high volatility, or the exchange getting (((hacked))) and losing your funds.

>>25866104
Go look for yourself. It's because the Aave TUSD liquidity is so low and the APR on TUSD loans is ~50% atm.

>>25866182
There are a few places that do it. BlockFi is the most well known. Basically you send crypto to your account on their site, and you can take out a loan on the value of the crypto (up to 50% of its value on BlockFi I believe). They wire fiat to your bank account, and your crypto gets locked up until you pay off the loan. If you don't keep up the payments they take your crypto. If you don't default then your crypto is unlocked when the loan is repayed, and the value has likely increased.

>> No.25866464

>>25861244
i saw some chart that said no capital gains from $0 to $39,000 or some shit, is this true?

>> No.25866471

But..... I thought all this crypto bullshit was a “currency”. Why not... you know.... use it as currency? Why the need to covert it back to US dollars? Oh... because crypto is bullshit

>> No.25866516

>>25861244 wow anon you make over 250,000 a year? Because there's no way you're getting taxed 30% of your gains even on the short term.

>> No.25866518

>>25866262
See>>25866309
But, there are variables that affect each person. If your annual income is 0 you can cash out a certain amount without getting hit with cap gains tax. I am no expert but maybe it will be then be taxed as an income at some point I am sure. But that threshold is crossed at like 40-50k in the USA. Again, a tax expert would be the best to get the definitive details from for any given situation. If by making bank you mean you got hundreds of K's or MM in crypto it only counts once you cash out and realize the profit or loss from the initial investment. So if every year you only cash out that limit before cap gains are applied for a 0 income person and that works for you then freakin awesome. 40-50K is fine comfortable living depending on where you live.

>> No.25866576

what about transfering through proxy addresses and then into coinbase. would coinbase or tax man be able to find those?

>> No.25866611

>>25866262
brother there are calculators for this here's one i don't know if it's good i'm drunk.

https://blog.taxact.com/bitcoin-tax-calculator/

>> No.25866615

>>25866471
There’s the door dumbass

>> No.25866631
File: 28 KB, 326x306, 1609869820064.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25866631

normie here, I've never bought bitcoin; well because I felt there was no reason to. Should I invest in it now? or is it too late? Or should I just stay away from it and just keep focusing on making an honest living?

>> No.25866640

>>25866448
>at's one of the advantages. you also don't need to worry about (((coinbase is down))) during high volatility, or the exchange getting (((hacked))) and losing your funds.
so you cash out
they ask you where you got all this
you don't know because there's no detailed transaction history
do they come for you?
or is it simply enough that you can point to your etherscan and your metamask activity?

>> No.25866728

>>25864488

i lost my wallet password with all my trades in it, but before i did i transfered through proxy addresses and then into coinbase before cashing out some ethers. would coinbase or tax man be able to find the og wallet or just accept me paying taxes on what i sold in coinbase?

>> No.25866838

>>25864764
>>25866471
But..... I thought all this euros bullshit was a “currency”. Why not... you know.... use it as currency? Why the need to covert it back to US dollars? Oh... because euros are bullshit

>> No.25866895
File: 23 KB, 399x386, hy6nutxcxbc21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25866895

>>25866838
you can use euros in europe

>> No.25866915

>>25866728
>would coinbase or tax man be able to find the og wallet or just accept me paying taxes on what i sold in coinbase?


I am not sure about that. But I do believe, I may need to be corrected but if you have crypto that has an 'uncharted/undocumented' origin story they assume initial price/value is 0 so you pay the full gains from 0 to sell price. Does that make sense? You may be able to claim that BTC you sold was really bought for 15K and not traded for with a bunch of transactions on a non KYC exchange with shitcoins or other trades. So, obviously the tax hit on a $0 to 40K sell is bigger than a $15k to 40k sell.

Does that kinda make sense?

>> No.25866920

My question is if I do trades on uni with cuckbase wallet would they show all those transactions? If so would I at least be able to download such transactions?

>> No.25866997

>>25866920
Oh sure you can create a transaction report on CB. Just click create report and it shows you everything you have sent in sent out, bought, sold, converted..etc. All the info is there. BUT only for what happens on their exchange. They have no clue about what you do elsewhere with crypto sent in or out of CB

>> No.25867016

>>25866471
I thought usd was a currency, but in order to not lose 10% to inflation every year I have to convert it to btc... Oh right that's because usd is bullshit

And you type like a redditor gtfo

>> No.25867018

>>25866915
>they assume initial price/value is 0 so you pay the full gains from 0 to sell price
bingo, at least that's how it works in my country

>> No.25867054

>>25867018
>>25866915
so that could be cheaper than say paying tax on all of the shitcoin trades, especially if some where profitable?

>> No.25867058

>>25866640
Ya, the transaction history is public and they can look for themselves if you're really audited. But don't cash out, just take crypto loans if you need fiat.

>> No.25867083

>>25866997
Yeah the report doesnt show my uniswap shitcoins through the coinbase wallet itself by the looks of it, so im good. I did do a few swaps on cuckbase so I will have to just take it, but my profit wasnt very large. I might just go to an accountant for it to make sure it is done right so I dont get fucked for a trivial amount of money. Normally id say fuck it and laze out on it, but I had a normie friend hit recently for owing 800 dollars which is pretty fucking crazy and bullshit, but what can you do

>> No.25867096

>>25867058
hmm i see
not US by the way so not the same
anyway, what about non erc20 tokens?

>> No.25867168

>>25862168
I too would like to know the answer to this

>> No.25867182

>>25867054

You bet if that is the case. They can't prove how you got it. You tell them and they have either agree or say, sorry, you need to pay this much since we have to assume it has a 0 value start. Not much they ca do other than deal with the circumstances info before them. Either way they are gonna get paid and you will get your cash, just not every cent of it like we all want.

>> No.25867189

>>25867096
then it depends on your country, but it's mostly similar once you cash out
>>25867058
>take crypto loins
enough with this meme, sure you'll be able to buy groceries but not a house or any real asset

>> No.25867267

>>25867182
any tricks to save money from tax man by using an LLC?

>> No.25867283

>>25863748

>Yeah, okay dude. All they're going to give a shit about is money going into the exchanges, money coming out of the exchanges, and their cut of the net gains.

Agreed. All the fear mongering about taxes on /biz/ is some psyop or schizo anons.

>> No.25867331

>>25861244
>selling
>ever

>> No.25867343

>>25866631
Bitcoin is an honest living you nigger. Go rob some old ladies coming off the metro around sunset.

>> No.25867378

>>25867083
Oh and I will be doing the same. I am on CB now with a nice holding but I made the bulk of my stash on BTC-e and then WEX before they were brought down. I have no records. If they want them, the FBI already has them I will say..lol. I got a large stash on a ledger so I will have transfer to my CB account when cash out time comes. Then deal with the tax shit. But I won't sell before then. I am still down over 40K from this correction and I woulda had to pay huge taxes if I cashed out. Yeah I lost out banking gains but I woulda had to time shit right ad be at risk somewhat. Even though still down over 40k even after todays recovery bounces. Sucks. But could be worse. I could not have enough to be down 40K and not really blink about it.

>> No.25867393

>>25861244
>>turn 20k into 60k in 3 months
>>cashing out triggered a capital gain so after taxes I have 48k left
Wtf? LAND OF THE FEE? 12k?!

>> No.25867405

>>25867267

I bet there are ways to help shelter your profits and reduce tax hit with an LLC but I would just suggest to talking to a pro tax person for that guidance. Outa of my lane.

>> No.25867428

>>25867343
REEEEEEEEE calm down faggot

>> No.25867453

>>25863714
shouldnt be long now

>> No.25867491

>>25867453
that's the real iron hands

>> No.25867832

>>25861244
KYC and fiat are retarded. You got what you deserved for "cashing out".

>> No.25867866

>Start with $20k
>Turn it into $60k
>Cash out and pay taxes
>Now have $48k worth of BTC
>i'M eXaCtLY wHeRe i StArTeD!!!!!

I guess I'm a brainlet, am I missing something?

>> No.25867884

>>25867866
Also, please look up "wash sale"

>> No.25868502

>>25861494
>Roth IRA
>pay zero taxes

>> No.25868525

>>25862133
in the end if you plan on paying taxes youll have to explain your cost basis. and if theres extra coins unaccounted for, what are ya gonna do?

>> No.25868581
File: 197 KB, 640x882, 9vWp6aU4y8kyJM9JABQLS7EhjmU3VVqJQJsLWXdiCU5yXwJHdMvQpJrW9ksQiunriD5RocesWcquueFNHUmNWKpxThBEWUiBjpC8jM8Qt7wZiJWkhXfjAFgCU4NVegZ2ASYgC8b4BdcX2r9ca.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25868581

>>25865148
that is a good movie. aren't they making a sequel about Del Toro's character?

>>25865365
a) this is why DeFi is not long for this world
b) i'd say there's a ~33-50% chance this thread was posted by the IRS, if that is the case you just got your IP flagged which I assume is tied to your bank account/social media accounts, etc so good luck with that one fella

>> No.25868609

>this thread
Land of the free my ass lel

>> No.25868648

>>25868581
They already made the sequel. It is good. Benicio and Brolin are awesome again in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i02bxFc88b4

>> No.25868791

>>25868648
sweeeet

>> No.25868972

>>25868791
It is a good movie.

If you need a link to dl a torrent of it and watch if not a Netflix user here you go.

https://yts.mx/movies/sicario-day-of-the-soldado-2018

>> No.25869732
File: 13 KB, 200x255, 1419776798781.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25869732

Can't wait to pay the inevitable 30% tax when I cash out here in Sweden.

>> No.25869829
File: 1 KB, 103x58, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25869829

Just asking this here, what does this mean? Did I not pay trade fees? Is it a free-for-all or will they charge me otherwise?

>> No.25870069

>laughs in British

>> No.25870111

>>25870069
we're no fucking better
we have to pay on each trade as well

>> No.25870651

>>25861353
payne pls. Contain your anger

>> No.25870920

>>25870111
You're right, looks like I'm a retarded newfag.

Syncing binance with koinly now to see how fucked I am.

Thanks anon

>> No.25870976

>>25870920
No worries man. Remember you have a 11k personal allowance.

>> No.25871048

>>25870111
Use Gemini as your onramp/ offramp for fiat to BTC, use Binance (or whatever trading exchange you prefer) for trading but don't verify ID

It won't keep the tax man away but at least your alt trades are gucci

>> No.25871116

>>25871048
>but don't verify ID
too late for that
at least there's uniswap

>> No.25871123

>>25861467
same. i need to do a 5x at least and i'm good. i never realised crypto to crypto was taxed, so when i do cash out i'll have to pay a fuckton of tax and fines and interest on top of that from 2017. if i don't make at least 5x i don't think it's even worth ever cashing out.

>> No.25871315

>>25870976
Looks like its 12.3k for 2020/2021, which thankfully I just slide under.

>> No.25871343

>>25871315
I think I probably do as well.

>> No.25871379

>>25861244
“Smart money”

>> No.25871603
File: 47 KB, 634x440, beggar_gibs_hand.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25871603

Why are mutts so retarded?

Every crypto-event is taxable. PER YEAR.

IRS just wants to know EVERY trade you made.
To calculate and audit trace what your PROFIT or LOSS is PER YEAR.
Thats what you pay taxes on.
You report your taxes ANNUALY not daily.

You dont pay tax on taking profits at 40k and buying back at 30k.
You calcuate your profits or loss over the entire year and thats what you end up paying - or moving on to next year.

>> No.25871877

>>25861463
No you don't lol, no one fucking pays taxes until it actually hits your bank account retard.

>>25861848
Ahahahahah. No one does this

>>25861244
Literally just find your basis of purchasing btc. The do 1 gorillion trades, the whatever you put back into your bank account that's what you pay taxes on. I don't know anyone who actually thinks about every fucking altcoin trade

>> No.25871942

>>25871877
>purchase btc
>make 100x from alts
>cash out and go to pay taxes claiming you never traded
>"so you made 100x by buying btc for 4k and selling at 40k? hmm"

>> No.25872021

>>25866399
I make plenty of trades and don't give a fuck about taxes until end of the year. I literally have no idea what you anons are talking about. Just use tether.

>>25871603
This

>>25866471
>1 post by this ID
Gas yourself nigger

>> No.25872027

>>25867283
Unironically it isn’t. You idiots don’t realize that when you swap from one asset to another even on a dex, and then claim a % gain that’s bigger than the max possible gain for that asset, it’s going to raise some flags because your buy and sell prices won’t make any sense. Whether or not the IRS pursues you today is irrelevant. They can come for your ass years from now. Obviously this is assuming you aren’t a poorfag and your portfolio is at least 6 figs
>t. spoken to a number of accountants about this very thing

>> No.25872114

>>25871603
The daily tax trades can fuck you though if you don’t pull the cash needed to cover the burden in a black swan event. So like let’s say you bought and sold a shit ton and are sitting at 80k bitcoin and haven’t cashed out, but then bitcoin crashes to 40k by Jan 1, we’ll guess what? You’ll owe money for the taxes on transactions made in the middle of the year for money you don’t have anymore. On top of that, you lose the long term capital gains tax % which is significantly lower than the short term capital gains tax

>> No.25872183

>>25871942
No I wont say anything. No one is going to go through 1 gorillion different trades on excel spreadsheet. So let's say I purchase btc @ $10k basis of btc then 100x it with alts in 2020 and turn it into $1,000,000. Then I decide to take some profit and want to sell $300,000 in my bank. Ok I just pay $90,000 to IRS for 2020 tax whatever and call it a day. Very simple. If the IRS niggers think I'm going to look at 1000 trades on 5 different altcoin exchanges then they can suck my dick

>> No.25872211

>>25872027
>>25872114
claim you just found the btc in an old wallet. no trades, no fines, just one taxable event. that seems better than getting an accountant to sift through thousands of trades, stakings, fines for late payments etc.

>> No.25872340

>>25872027
>They can come for your ass years from now.
Oh fuck they coming for my ASS
https://cointelegraph.com/news/only-802-people-paid-taxes-on-bitcoin-profits-irs-says

>>25872114
>You’ll owe money for the taxes on transactions
Do you mean trades retard. Why are you speaking like it's a Tx

>> No.25872415

>>25872183
> If the IRS niggers think I'm going to look at 1000 trades on 5 different altcoin exchanges then they can suck my dick

Thats right my boi.
If they want to do it, sure, give them the trade history and let their clerk sift thru.

Thats why its better to have 1 0000 gorillion trades on many exchanges moving coins left and right.
They want taxes, they can come and take them.

You of course report and pay at best effort basis. Simle as.

>> No.25872482

>>25872340
If you make enough money, you best believe your ass will undergo an audit. If you are talking smaller portfolio sizes than you might fly under the radar. But the second you cash out and it doesn’t make sense, you RISK being caught. Did I ever say they WILL come after you? No, I said they can and have done so before as you have linked in your post
Because a trade is literally a transaction you brainlet, you have transacted ONE ASSET FOR ANOTHER jfc

>> No.25872529

>>25872114
Wrong.
You report to IRS your trades, since you are in bitcoin at end of year, there is nothing to pay tax on even if your value has increased, since your value is only in BTC not in USD, the one you pay tax on. The IRS doesnt collect BTC as taxes yet.

You can take 10k and trade entire year, be left with 40k value in BTC. But you have 0 USDs as profit. You are only down 10k USD. You report this to IRS. -10k for year 1 (even tho value of shitcoin was 40k on 31st december).

If you sell next year when BTC is now valued at 20k, and dont do any other trades that year 2, you pay tax on 10k profit.

>> No.25872611

>>25872415
Based anon

>>25872482
"asset" shut the fuck up accounting fag the IRS can suck my dick nigger. You sound like a no coiner

>> No.25872894
File: 84 KB, 1280x720, 1529343607947.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25872894

Is that an American thing or do other European countries actually do this? It always baffles me.

>> No.25872939

>>25872611
Faggot I have over $2m in bitcoin eth and link, so literally go back to your shanty town

>>25872529
It isn’t wrong because in my assumption I said you day traded throughout the year selling tops and buying bottoms right? That’s what I’m arguing, you basically said as long as you don’t sell youre okay to which in that case would be right. But if you day trade like I described and get burned, you don’t have the cash to pay for your profits even if you are in btc. Lemme create a totally random hypo:
You buy 1 bitcoin at 10k
You sell 1 bitcoin at 80k for whatever asset
~8 initial, so let’s say for sake of argument short term tax for sake of argument is 25% ~ that puts you liable for 25% of the 70k profit that you didn’t take out
You buy 2 bitcoin again at 40k but now with twice the stack
Bitcoin goes to 20k Dec 31 2021 (fwiw these prices aren’t what I think will happen, it’s just for the hypo to make it simple)
If you’re argument is that you lost money then that’s right, but you also made money on the initial trade that you don’t have the money for anymore since it went down before you cashed it out. You can’t claim it as a loss since you already made it. If you go the route of not claiming it at all, then read >>25871942

>> No.25873332

>>25872939
>Faggot I have over $2m in bitcoin eth
Oh wow guys we have a big baller over here


>You sell 1 bitcoin at 80k for whatever asset
Just say altcoin trade, stop using accounting nigger speak.

>Bitcoin goes to 20k Dec 31 2021
Ok then you have $40k and you started with $10k. Great you 4x your money so who the fuck cares about the trades in-between. So you sell $40k and pay $9,000 in taxes for 2021 year. What if I made 100 "asset transactions" a day. Well I still ended up with $40k entering my bank account. If I really think the average Joe will report his 100 altcoin trades then you are retarded

>> No.25873434

>>25873332
Faggot you said I’m a no coiner, I’m strictly telling you how fucking wrong you are pleb
Regardless, I explained it out to you and you’re feeble mind STILL doesn’t get it. You still look at it that you made $40k and pay $9k in taxes. I’m saying when you chose to sell at $80k that’s when the taxable event occurs, not what it’s worth after you chose to buy back in. Anyways if you still don’t get it, idgaf kek I’ll enjoy not getting reamed by the IRS

>> No.25873564

>>25861244
>paying crypto taxes
I came here to laugh at you

>> No.25873744

>>25872939
In your example, for the year 2021, you report no losses and no profits. Simple as.

Why, because taxes are per year, not per trade.
The examples you heard, was only valid if you hadnt done any other trades after taking that 80k as profit.

>> No.25873796

>>25861244
>I bought back in at 30k BTC but realize I’m back to where I started and it would have made no difference if I had HODLed through the dump
well, yes and no. You did reset you basis, but yeah, ultimately its mostly a wash. swing trading is really a winner if you don't pay taxes.

>> No.25874260

>>25861244
Tax problem equals no problem at all.
Well done OP

>> No.25874508

>>25872211
someone explain to me how this could go wrong.

>> No.25874828
File: 476 KB, 602x465, 1609672297050.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
25874828

>>25873434
>. I’m saying when you chose to sell at $80k that’s when the taxable event occurs
so you're saying people who have 100s of buy/sell orders in a 30 minute span trying to scalp have to pay taxes on every single order?

>sell order @$81,000
>buy order @$79,938
>sell order @$81,021
>buy order @$79,998
>sell order @$81,005
>buy order @$79,943
>sell order @$81,030
>buy order @$79,935

so you are saying the average bitcoin (usdt) day trader is going to calculate 20,000 trades in 2021 to find out how much they are going to pay in taxes? no they are going to do it by the basis with how much they purchases btc for with their bank at what price. You are retarded

>> No.25875021

>>25874508
They could elect to audit and see for themselves?

>> No.25875222

>>25874508
if you can't prove what price you bought your btc for, you have to claim zero basis.

>> No.25875271

>>25861463
He snitches on himself
Ngmi

>> No.25875284

>>25874828
you're a dumb nigger, 30 minutes and $30 on a site like bitcoin.tax and yeah, they will calculate your gains and estimated tax on each of 10000 trades for you. Not a big deal.

>> No.25875462

>>25861244
>paying more taxes than your president
ngmi

>> No.25875989

>>25875284
I have like 10 different exchange accounts and years of trades. Bitmex closed a few of my accounts because US ip bullshit. I have 100s of withdrawals I don't even know where the fuck I sent stuff too. Does the IRS expect me to know all that shit? How can they expect millions of normies to know. Good luck to them trying to come after everyone. But I guess they will go after 7 figure gemini cashing out anons first, then maybe dable with a few 6figure anon binance accounts. Maybe this is the only time I feel good being a poorfag

>> No.25876143

>>25875989
They'll likely target the big accounts.

It would be wise to start getting your shit together though from here on in. Crypto is getting more and more adoption, and the taxman always gets his.