UK tax avoidance

[Anonymous No.25311826]

Last thread: >>25299381

We're trying to come up with ways to reduce or avoid UK capital gains tax. So far the only workable solution is to leave the country semi-permanently.

Some replies to the last thread:

> Isn't there a yearly CGT allowance?

Yes but it's only £12,300

> why do you need to declare if you only draw down your untaxable annual allowance whilst leaving your equity in stablecoins

Selling to a stablecoin constitutes a taxable event in the first place. So this is still just a "don't declare it" plan.
I was wondering if there's a way to put the assets inside a company or some other structure so that they're no longer taxed as my personal assets?

[Anonymous No.25311863]

>>25311826
anyone know if a "drip trade" would be a valid CGT mitigation?

e.g. make a uniswap dex clone where trades are executed over 10 years instead of instantly.

>e.g. lock in $70k for 100 eth, you deposit 100 eth and get $70k over the next 10 years
avoiding CGT (by staying under the threshold)

or would something like that not fly

[Anonymous No.25311898]

I'm very interested in this thread

[Anonymous No.25311955]

>>25311826
Could you use it as capital for a company, reclaim it all back then liquidate the company or transfer it straight to your pension?

[Anonymous No.25312029]

The only legit wsy i cab think of thst avoids capital gains tax is an ISA account which all gains are tax free from there im only able to put the money into bitcoin ETP my other thought is a offshore bank account to which ur crypto is converted and deposited there and go through their tax rates then bank transfer to ur UK one, not sure if this works tho

[Anonymous No.25312031]

>>25311826
What actually happens if you just don't give a fuck and not declare?
Anyone in this board has any experience with something actually happening? Instead of just felling the threat.

[Anonymous No.25312046]

>>25311826
>only buy crypto with cash
>never KYC in any exchange
>cash out XMR then swap into USDT
>kikes will never figure it out

It begins with good OPSEC from day 1.

[Anonymous No.25312105]

>>25312031

I have a full time job and I got a tax bill from the HMRC back in 2018 or 19. wasn't even trading a lot. The bill wasnt a huge amount, it just came off my monthly tax with my employer.

The only viable way to not realise your gains is to take out a defi loan using your crypto at collateral.

>>25312046

unironically this, you have to be smart from the beginning. Luckily i've never sold my core BTC position since I bought it at 3.6k/btc back in 2019.

I guess you could grab a crypto debit card and use that - deposit into an online casino using that card and washing the cash that way

[Anonymous No.25312122]

Just cash out 12,300 a year and when you really make it pay the tax.

[Anonymous No.25312253]

>>25311826
If they are not taxes as your personal assets, then they aren't your personal assets. Why don't you just have it paid out. Never has the uk financial authority questioned any btc outcashers. Don't be too shy

[Anonymous No.25312314]

>>25312046
>It begins with good OPSEC from day 1.

Agreed, but unfortunately I have put a LOT through coinbase so they've reported me to HMRC along with anyone else whose account handled more than 5k/year.

I'm not clear what details this includes but if they report withdrawal wallet addresses then you're extra fucked unless things got tumbled after that.

>>25312031
>What actually happens if you just don't give a fuck and not declare?
>Anyone in this board has any experience with something actually happening? Instead of just felling the threat.

This would be helpful, indeed. People who truly "cashed out" and left the markets probably aren't here any more to talk about it, though.

In any other area if you don't declare tax they have many ways of finding out (most transactions IRL have countless clues and papertrails etc and they can match shit up and find out who's owing). Crypto is easier to track than most things.
>>25312122
>Just pay the tax.

Thanks for your contribution.

[Anonymous No.25312414]

>>25311826
>>>25299381
Isle of Mann 0% CGT

[Anonymous No.25312424]

>>25311826
wtf why do you have a pic from my dad?

[Anonymous No.25312477]

My plan is to just live off of the staking gains/DeFi interest from my Link holdings. It should just be income tax in that case. My trading history was a mess for my first year and I didn't keep good records. Not that I'm planning on selling my main Link stack anyway.
>this is assuming you can't just use crypto directly for products or services in the future

[Anonymous No.25312547]

>>25311826
>Yes but it's only £12,300

So if someone in Minecraft cashed out under 12k through coinbase they wont get CGT on it ?

[Anonymous No.25312563]

If you ger rich enough won't won't have to pay any like the rest of 'em

[Anonymous No.25312586]

>>25312547
>So if someone in Minecraft cashed out under 12k through coinbase they wont get CGT on it ?

You'll be reported to HMRC since coinbase report anyone seeing over 5k turnover. As for reporting requirements yourself, I don't know if you have to report the gain but it's 0%, or if you don't have to even declare it. Either way, yes, within a tax year you can enjoy £12,300 capital gains at 0%.

[Anonymous No.25312599]

>>25311826
bruv if you really have millions (LARP probably) then just hire a tiny hat tax lawyer or a wealth management team from the city.
you think anyone here is going to know the best way to navigate hundreds of pages of tax code for a brand new asset class? top kek lad

[Anonymous No.25312661]

>>25312586
>You'll be reported to HMRC since coinbase report anyone seeing over 5k turnover.

Bets to cash out on Binance then? Was thinking swapping to BTC then OTC also

[Anonymous No.25312665]

>>25311826
>>25312046
>sign up to offshore forex exchange that accepts crypto deposits
>deposit x amount into forex account
>withdraw x amount into newly-created eth address
>trade shitcoins on uniswap to your heart's content with new wallet
>deposit gains back into forex account
>withdraw gains from forex account into original wallet
>enjoy gains with no crypto-to-crypto "taxable event" taxes

[Anonymous No.25312715]

>>25311826
Retard here, if my income is over the tax-free bracket does that mean all my capital gains will be taxed no matter what? Or are CGT and IT assessed independently?

[Anonymous No.25312751]

>>25311826
>. So far the only workable solution is to leave the country semi-permanently.


Say you get 1mil in minecraft market then move to Malta for 5 years... whats the next step? If you cash out on coinbase in Malta server what different does it make? You'd still be triggered in the HMRC system but the only difference is they cant send you angry letters in minecraft

[Anonymous No.25312835]

I feel there is a market for an exchange that will take crypto in exchange fot CGT free assets like gold/art etc which we can then cash in on.

[Anonymous No.25312854]

>>25312665
ting ting ting

based.

[Anonymous No.25312868]

>>25312715
Income and CHT allowances in the UK are separate

[Anonymous No.25312875]

>>25312751
Cash out in stable coins, but first you have to make it anon by buying XMR -> stable coins.

No need to cash it into the bank while you can get insane APR with DeFi.

[Anonymous No.25312892]

>>25312665
>sign up to offshore forex exchange that accepts crypto deposits
Any recommendations?

[Anonymous No.25312930]

>>25312892
This

[Anonymous No.25313004]

>>25312661
It's not whether they report to HMRC that really matters or not.

For me it's when I cash out to GBP £85k max fscs compensation limit to each of my several bank accounts.

As just an average salary wagie wtf is going to happen when I max out all these accounts. HMRC and AML will be alerted and surely I will be temporarily frozen till I can prove origin of all the funds.

[Anonymous No.25313070]

>>25312892
>>25312930
Have a read here:
https://forums.babypips.com/t/going-offshore-to-escape-the-cftc/35612
I personally have used Coinexx and Trader's Way. There's a big list of brokers to choose from though.

[Anonymous No.25313096]

>>25313004
>HMRC and AML will be alerted and surely I will be temporarily frozen till I can prove origin of all the funds.

They trying to keep us down

[Anonymous No.25313104]

>>25313070
Absolute legend, cheers

[Anonymous No.25313184]

You have around 37.5k of tax free allowances a year in PAYE, passive, and capital gains. Double that if you're married as you can use your partners.

Set up a limited company, and corprotize some of your crypto assets, then pay yourself and partner a salary and dividends totalling £25,000 per year each.

Sell £12.5k of crypto a year each to make use of capital gains.


There you go £75k per year for a small family tax free in the UK.

[Anonymous No.25313233]

>>25312046
except USDT is centralised, better off going into DAI where HMRC can't throw a court order at a single entity and freeze your money

[Anonymous No.25313298]

>>25312414
tell me more, how do I benefit from this as a current UK resident?
>happy to buy property
>happy to move

[Anonymous No.25313300]

>>25311826
>Oi, 'ave ye got a tax avoidence loicense for that?

Isn't there some legal stuff you can do to lower tax expense with City of London companies setting up accounts in the BVI? Thought there was some intentional loophole here that the global elite take advantage of

[Anonymous No.25313321]

>>25312875
Uniswap to XMR then cash out in Dai?

Based

[Anonymous No.25313349]

Explain to a brainlet how much tax I would have to pay please.
If I cash out 1 million for example, how much will they take?
Is my income from my job taken into account as well?

[Anonymous No.25313626]

>>25312599
>hundreds of pages of tax code for a brand new asset class
That's the joke anon, no one knows. Not the lawyers and certainly not the gov clerks. Do not declare, wait for them to come to you, only then lawyer up and challenge.

[Anonymous No.25313683]

>>25313184
>pay yourself and partner a salary and dividends totalling £25k per year each
>£75k per year

Anon, I ...

[Anonymous No.25313709]

>>25313349
You are worried about the wrong thing. The real deal is cashing out then bank freezing ur shit indefinitely.

[Anonymous No.25313717]

>>25313626
Any tax accountant, lawyer, or wealth management company worth their salt now knows about crypto. Particularly if you are talking millions. 2017 saw to that.

[Anonymous No.25313797]

In a previous thread about this people were talking about using a crypto gambling site called ethroll (I think) which had an option to bet on something with a 99% chance of returns, the idea was that since gambling isn't taxed in the uk you could make it in crypto then feed your money through ethroll so it's seen as gambling profits, any ideas if this is actually viable?

[Anonymous No.25313852]

>>25313797
link thread

[Anonymous No.25313871]

>>25313797
>99% chance of returns

That doesnt sound like gambling

[Anonymous No.25314058]

>>25313797

Pretty sure it's your winnings you don't pay tax on. You can't put £100,000 on something with a return of £100,001 then claim the lot tax free, only the £1 you made. They'd probably want proof.

[Anonymous No.25314080]

>>25313852
Don't think I'll find it now it was from a year or so ago
>>25313871
That's the point I think, minimize the risk of losing money but still avoiding the tax

[Anonymous No.25314101]

>>25311826
There's no other way, you have to move to a no CGT place (Hong Kong, Singapore). And it's only going to get worse because the government spent billions of pounds this year on COVID and have to make it back somehow

[Anonymous No.25314149]

>>25311826
>Selling to a stablecoin constitutes a taxable event in the first place
Does it? I thought HMRC, unlike the cucks at the IRS, only cared about actual aggregated gains. So if I do 10,000 trades to gain £10 I only need to declare £10.

[Anonymous No.25314180]

>>25313683
you pay the dividends and salary to your family so it comes in under the tax limit you monkey

[Anonymous No.25314191]

>>25314058
>Pretty sure it's your winnings you don't pay tax on
That is correct. If you put forward £100k, wherever this £100 comes from is a taxable event. Unless of course that £100k came from a £1,000 gamble that went very well, but in that case the £1,000 you made in crypto is still taxable (unless it falls under the £12,300 allowance)

[Anonymous No.25314199]

>>25311826
Declare yourself a non-resident and leave for just over 6 months every year.

[Anonymous No.25314291]

Whatever happened to moving to a country like Germany (or a country which has 0% tax on crypto gains), living there for a year, and then cashing out? Is that not actually a thing?

[Anonymous No.25314477]

Just make more money lol I've made a fortune and tax is only a dent lmao.

[Anonymous No.25314683]

>have been gambling on slots for past 6 months
>have spent around 20,000gbp via crypto into gambling sites
>only down a few grand
>i now only realise I am liable for taxes on my winnings, even if I am down overall

>mfw

[Anonymous No.25314771]

>>25314683
biz is really not suited to the prison environment. this won't end well.

[Anonymous No.25314940]

>>25314771

honestly fuck the hmrc

im never cashing out my btc stack

[Anonymous No.25315314]

>>25314199
Seems like the best and safest option. Just go live abroad for as long as necessary to declare yourself a non resident, and cash everything out. You could go in Thailand for example.
Such a plan might help you to cover up your gains, but I assume the tax code in UK is similar to other Eurpean tax codes: what matters is the date you made a gain. Assuming you made gains trading in 2020, if you cash out in full in 2021, that does not mean you don't have to declare your 2020 gains and pay tax for it.
Also, in some jurisdictions, the simple fact of not declaring foreign bank accounts (e.g. Binance, Coinbase etc) is sometimes punishable (fines).
Finally, you have to chose in which bank you want to cash out and how you want to repatriate the funds to your usual bank account.

[CLF Chad No.25315345]

Lol you silly europoors

[Anonymous No.25316642]

>>25315345
Is it possible to long CLF with leverage? Or will I get rekt?

[Anonymous No.25316755]

>>25315345
wow 3.8%...fuck off jeetwinder

[Anonymous No.25316881]

>>25313349
12k is tax free
20% on everything else after that

[Anonymous No.25316943]

>>25316881

isnt cgt going to 40% next year?

[Anonymous No.25317038]

>>25311826
>leave the country semi-permanently
This might be a good idea anyway

[Anonymous No.25317061]

>>25311826
>So far the only workable solution is to leave the country semi-permanently.

the ideal solution is to leave the country permanently

[Anonymous No.25317091]

>>25317061

>can only leave the UK for NZ since im a kiwi

i am double cucked, nz crypto tax laws are ass.

[Anonymous No.25317118]

>>25311826
Just pay the taxes... then you can live without worrying

They could even knock on your door 10 years from now... wtf... not worth it

[Anonymous No.25317150]

>>25311826
Lmao HMRC lad here, shall be reading with intent

[Anonymous No.25317159]

>>25317118
Also, you need to be able to document where your money comes from or they can literally take everything you own (house, car, bank account, everything). Just happened to a guy in Britain actually (all his properties where taken).

[Anonymous No.25317188]

>>25317159
There is a special law in many countries for this "undocumented wealth"... then they can rightfully take everything you have

[Anonymous No.25317214]

>>25317188
So, just pay the taxes (then you have it documented) - or risk losing everything, including everything you own outside crypto