Oldfag general

[Anonymous No.25197199]

I'm a Bitcoin maxi but I understand the limitations. Gold for example is valued at $10 trillion, and global securities are valued around some $80-90 trillion. Honestly, this is a fantastic moment to potentially consider rotating your Bitcoin earnings into Ethereum as it is indeed the evolution of money.
>
Blockchain doesn't solve anything EXCEPT our issues with money. So fuck off with this meme about how the data structure is useless. Obviously you won't use blockchain for your financial planning sheets, or even "the internet 2.0" ... it's about one thing: Accountability, auditability, analytic review. Bitcoin, unfortunately, does not do this at scale and never will. It was never meant to. Satoshi realized this, and anyone with a fucking calculator did, too. Money *must* be inflationary to a certain extent, otherwise there is no debt creation, and thus we return to a Dark Ages kind of mentality. Reduced spending, zero economic growth. Overall poverty, no technological advancement.
>
Bitcoin's a fantastic asset, don't get me wrong, but it's by no means the future of money. Even if Lightning Network or some form of "Exchange Fastlane" were to be perfected, Bitcoin's a gold rush during a manifest destiny. The real wealth during this time was infrastructure investment, this is where Rockefeller and the like were born. Hold your Bitcoin, cherish it. Understand will not ever serve any greater purpose than gold does today. Gold is an abstract, slow, relatively useless commodity outside of very specific industry applications which the layman holds no stake in.
>
Ethereum did an excellent job proving its release phase is mostly reasonably secure, and that it'll be rolled out in the next few years is A VERY SHORT TIME BY ANY MEANS. Act accordingly, don't let the new ATHs of Bitcoin delude you from the primitive proof of concept that Bitcoin was meant to be.
>
Happy new year, and don't forget to pay your taxes, call your family, and mindfully enjoy simple pleasures in life.

[Anonymous No.25197276]

>>25197199
>we need inflation
go back

[Anonymous No.25197302]

>>25197199
>I'm a Bitcoin maxi but
...no buts anon. you are an idiot

[Anonymous No.25197325]

>ethereum
stopped reading

[Anonymous No.25197382]

Classic appeal for authority lamo.
>Old fag general
>Bitcoin maxi

Fuck off, this board is full of new fags and all the old fags from 2017 made it on LINK

[Anonymous No.25197410]

>ctrl monero
>zero results
kek maxis are so retarded

[Anonymous No.25197494]

>>25197276
https://economics.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Workshops-Seminars/Economic-History/redish-110404.pdf
>>25197302
As I tried to convey, nothing wrong with Bitcoin as there's nothing wrong with Gold. Amazing how some shit on the idea of gold, when that's effectively exactly what they're promoting. Digital gold. It serves a purpose, it's great for many things, but a society based on a scarce resource ultimately collapses under the weight of economic instability during a form of a recession. Inflation allows for 'glossing over' a bad season. Think of inflation like a refrigerator for food. TV dinners are bad, but keeping meat chilled so it doesn't spoil for a few days is a magnificent invention. The meat gets eaten. Nobody starves. Nobody revolts. Society carries on.
>>25197325
Great input, faggot.
>>25197382
>old fags from 2017
>2017
Get fucked.
>>25197410
Imagine shilling Monero on a board glowing with such intensity even the sun shields its eyes.

[Anonymous No.25197539]

>>25197199

>inflation is good

How can you call yourself a maxi when you haven't even read The Bitcoin Standard? A deflationary currency means a limit on malinvestment and endless mega-booms and mega-busts. Inb4 "gold standard failed": it was perverted by central banks using obfuscation to print more currency than was backed by their gold reserves. Bitcoin solves this with a totally transparent, auditable public ledger, and instant non-physical transactions that allow any individual to become their own reserve bank, if they so choose.

[Anonymous No.25197623]

>>25197494
who cares about a pdf written by an old boomer in 2011? you're embarrassing

[Anonymous No.25197645]

>>25197494
if you are actually an oldfag you would remember when Bitcoin faced the same glownigger fud.
larp confirmed.

[Anonymous No.25197713]

>>25197539
This thread is going to be fun. Inflation itself doesn't mean $2000 a month for every college dropout and McDonald's worker. It can mean subtle additions of monetary note to an economy that is not producing value due to intermittent unimportant factors -- somewhat similar to what's going on during COVID, if you can believe it. So long as in the long term inflation doesn't become HYPERINFLATION. It's actually and incredibly valuable tool to prevent upsets such as, you know, 10 year bouts of a Great Depression.
I'm sure you're thinking, "Well, good. Fine. That's what we need. It was malinvestment!"
As a libertarian wet dream this is fantastic, but for a cohesive society of doctors, an army, farmers that don't shoot you, and something that doesn't look like central Africa, it's not.
The trick is to keep inflation somewhere in between inflating the currency to subtly prevent hoarding (for more people, more economic tools, more economic services), yet avoid something like Zimbabwe. I used a refrigerator example above, same goes for something like alcohol. A little is fine, even too much every now and then is okay. Become and alcoholic and you'll ruin your life. Life, is a balance.
To reiterate, I don't think Bitcoin is a bad thing, but there's no way in shit a 5G fiber optics society is going to charge a fluctuating amount of "money" for your coffee. This is why a programmatic approach to fiat issuance is so valuable through a platform such as Ethereum.
>>25197623
>who cares about a pdf
The rest of the world. Leave your fucking comfort zone.
>>25197645
At no point am I saying that Bitcoin is not valuable. I'm saying we're never, ever going to transition to a world where the entirety of some 10 billion people are going to be constantly shaving off a few satoshis for a productive economy, and if you don't understand that, you either have practically zero skin in the game or you've never read a fucking book in your life.

[Anonymous No.25197756]

>>25197494
you're an actual idiot anon

[Anonymous No.25197766]

>>25197199
>I’m an oldfag but ethereum is smarter than boomercoin
Eat an uncircumcised dick, JIDF

[Schiff Will Win !!L6zziHG8/KZ No.25197813]

>>25197199
imagine not being 100% in LINK right now, it's like you don't know sergey got caught posting on a russian proxy in a hotel, the exact same one that satoshi used, the IP addresses were the same, smartcontracts, satoshi moving on in the email correspondence, JSON-RPC, QED Capital, Anders telecom, 87.251.146, bitcointalk mirroring stormfront, bitcointalk's 1st language subsection being russian, the inorganic shilling here during ICO by sergey himself, sergeys multiple slip ups whilst being interviewed/presentations SN = SN
When Sergey dumps his 1m stack all into LINK, bitcoin maxis will rope and so will everyone else

[Anonymous No.25197814]

>>25197199

ethereum isnt money nigger and you have to be pretty stupid if you're an "oldfag" and still making this elementary mistake

[Anonymous No.25197837]

>>25197713
>who cares about a pdf
>The rest of the world. Leave your fucking comfort zone.
you can't be that retarded anon

[Anonymous No.25197869]

>>25197199
Ive already sold my BTC for ETH. I think BTC needs a breather

[Anonymous No.25197915]

>>25197869
I’m not even kidding, this thread is kiked beyond belief. Moneyskelly is the number one target for a takedown and they want to ensure you get dumped on when they move to the next shabbos “digital oil” like polkadot to ensure the guy that called ripple a shitcoin doesn’t ever get a platform ever again.

[Anonymous No.25198034]

>>25197199
>consider rotating your Bitcoin earnings into Ethereum
Ask me how I know you're a retard with no clue

>>25197494
OP you're looking at the wrong charts, of marketcaps and usd prices, you're still at stage 3 of maxihood
Don't look at the price charts, look at THIS chart and forecast accordingly

[Anonymous No.25198055]

>>25197756
>idiot
>idiot
Thanks for replying to any substance, the poorfag appears to be triggered by thought.
>>25197766
Checked, but fuck you. Shit ass argument.
>>25197813
LINK is dead and you know it.
>>25197814
Ethereum has the ability to effectively safely mint and maintain CBDC you fucking elementary minded retard. If you can't understand your own misstep here then you are missing the point of arguably the base usecase of the tokenization of the platform's usage. See ICO scams of 2017.
See Tether
See USDC
See DAI
Literally any fucking dollar equivalent that's described as 'safe and immutable' from a bank disabling your account. The fucking absolute fucking state.
>>25197869
>>25197915
It took ETH approximately a month last time after Bitcoin reached an all time high, I personally think Bitcoin is dead-cat bouncing its way off of its dominance. It'll rest easy around maybe, 20%? Otherwise, as stated in my preamble, the world economy is much, much bigger than gold. If you haven't realized that you're a fucking moron. Real money is in SERVICES AND DEBT which is what Ethereum is EXCELLING at.
>the number one target for a takedown
Yet somehow, the US SEC goes after XRP, not the #2 crypto that has spawned millions of bagholders and thousands of scams.
>
/biz/ has actually gone full fucking retard, it seems. Currently ETH has tokenized about 1-2% of Bitcoin, and the value is likely to grow. To assume that Ethereum almost by default off this notion alone the superior asset, you deserve generational poverty.

[Anonymous No.25198164]

>>25198034
Is your picrelated meant to be some sort of roadmap for your fantasy of getting an invite to a citadel?

[Anonymous No.25198226]

>>25197199
>I'm a Bitcoin maxi but I understand the limitations. Gold for example is valued at $10 trillion, and global securities are valued around some $80-90 trillion. Honestly, this is a fantastic moment to potentially consider rotating your Bitcoin earnings into Ethereum as it is indeed the evolution of money.

lolwut

[Anonymous No.25198231]

Didn’t read, already split between eth dot nucypher and boomercoin and comfy as fuck

[Anonymous No.25198377]

>>25197199
Borrowing and lending can be supplied with a finite supply. The asset becomes more valuable, and you are able to borrow more against it. Maybe if the lenders and the lenders to the lenders appreciated what they were lending we wouldn't have countless zombie corporations and the boom and bust cycle. The only purpose inflation provides is sparking the motive for spending - which is based on Keynesian/modern monetary theory, this methodology has fucked the economy since advent. Look up Ray Dalio's economic engine video, and read The Bitcoin Standard, listen to Druckenmillers perspective on the economy, and look at Buffet's value investing die more and more each day.

Also, there isn't a single useful, adopted or profitable project on ETH, or outside of ETH. 10 years, genius technophiles and billions invested. Not one thing.

You fucking moron.

[Anonymous No.25198579]

>>25198164
You don't get invites, you buy tickets
Tickets cost 1 BTC, held as collateral

Brief History of the Perception of Bitcoin:
>2009
...
>2010
What?
>2011-2012
Haha internet money. I might mine it with my gpu
>2013-2014
Wow that was a crazy bubble, well that experiment was fun, tulip mania
>2015-2016
I wonder when I can buy a cup of coffee with my darknet libertarian pirate money
>2017
Bitcoin millionaires! Normie fomo! BTC to $50k!
>2018-19
Store of value. Bitcoin might hit $100k one day if institutional investors get in..
>2020
Digital gold, institutional investment coming in, $100k is fud, "smart, sound" investment
>2021
It's pretty irresponsible for this corporation not to own hard money digital assets in this economic environment
...
What's left:
Bitcoins replace bonds in conservative portfolios
One Sat = one cent
Generational wealth
Wholecoiners on the Citadel
Separation of Money and State
International Reserve Currency

[Anonymous No.25198691]

>>25197199
You were on the reddit threads back in 2010. I remember your text cadence and post about future values.

[Anonymous No.25198699]

>>25197199
>Bitcoin's a fantastic asset
It's a ponzi scheme that only grows because every financial market grows since 2009. It's going to completely collapse during the first major crash, killing the idea it's a store of value.
It generates no income and only generates losses from mining, it's pure shit.

Anything that has no direct utility and generates no income is a ponzi scam.
>Understand will not ever serve any greater purpose than gold does today.
the major purpose of gold, by demand in dollars, is to serve as jewelry in India and China, which is a form of direct utility. The perception of gold demand in the west is wildly out of proportions, mostly because of arrogance, westerners just refuse to consider that other areas matter.
If not for jewelry demand gold would be already over.

[Anonymous No.25198736]

>>25197199

>I’m a bitcoin maxi but I don’t understand Bitcoins value proposition at all and also I am a keynesiast sheep

[Anonymous No.25198825]

>>25197199
I could get behind a little inflation as long as I knew kikes weren't going to weasel their way in and start shitting and vomiting and liquid diarrhea-ing with bits of corn all over the financial system like they have since the installation of the federal reserve. No inflation as long as jews exist.

[Anonymous No.25198998]

>>25197199
Also, you're not thinking in terms of sustainability. MMT only works on a short time scale. It creates the cyclical nature of the boom and bust economy. The overleveraging eventually hits critical mass and we see recessions (a la many losing their life savings in '08). Importantly, it's not sustainable long term - the national debts can't be increased infinitely without major upheavals. Further, this divides the wealth gap, leading to populism which you can see now. Everybody is mad, but they're not sure why. Watch this (it's gotten much worse btw, and it only continues):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

If you continue to use inflation to stimulate, the rich (the wealth of the world) will continue to drive up scarce assets, ad infinitum. This distorts the stock market/real estate and other assets best driven by valuation (Bitcoin provides a way to much more easily/fairly store value, and store value over eons).

So, you're discounting the human element here. The final nail in the coffin is technology. Technology is deflationary by nature. The more that technology advances (parabolically), the more blue collar/entry level jobs are supplanted by machines and code. The rise of AI will only exponentially increase the parabolic rate of this.

It's first principles thinking. If you were to start from scratch, would you create a manipulatable, debase-able spreadsheet owned by a centralized few?

[Anonymous No.25199035]

Bitcoin cant scale xD

[Anonymous No.25199047]

>>25198699
Here's a secret to the universe that is true in all cases.

What something is worth is that which someone is willing to pay for it.

That's what "intrinsic value" is.

>It's going to completely collapse during the first major crash.
Apparently you haven't been paying attention for very long.

[Anonymous No.25199051]

>>25198691
Damn anon how do you remember individual posters like this?

[Anonymous No.25199136]

>>25199047
>What something is worth is that which someone is willing to pay for it.
Wrong, the entire economy is a very complicated optimization problem and people can be right or wrong.
Sometimes there's no way to tell, but in case of bitcoin, wealth is actively being destroyed with nothing of value being produced. There would be more wealth globally if bitcoin was never created.
China is smart to practically ban bitcoin.
>Apparently you haven't been paying attention for very long.
The last major crash was in 2007/2008 when bitcoin didn't exist.

[Anonymous No.25199175]

>>25197325
kek! Same.

[Anonymous No.25199185]

>Money *must* be inflationary to a certain extent, otherwise there is no debt creation

oy voy how terriiiiibil

[Anonymous No.25199194]

>>25199136
cope harder you fucking faggot. you'll be saying the same thing at 100k and beyond

[Anonymous No.25199224]

>>25199136
a network has value
go back to your giant dildo for giant faggots

[Anonymous No.25199268]

>>25199185
dont be a nigger, debt is important for growth.

[Anonymous No.25199271]

It's always end the same

[Anonymous No.25199296]

>>25199268
cuck

[Anonymous No.25199351]

>>25199268

Just like in 1930s Germany when the got rid of merchant controlled central banking and implemented their own work backed currency note and pulled off the greatest economic comeback story in all of history?

Debt = slavery.

[Anonymous No.25199365]

>>25197766
>>25197814
>>25198377
>he doesn't know about uniswap
>he doesn't know about stablecoins
>he doesn't know about wbtc
enjoy getting stablecoins to work on btc, faggots

[Anonymous No.25199384]

>>25199136
Wrong, the entire economy is a very complicated optimization problem and people can be right or wrong.

The nature of value is inherently subjective. Let's think of it this way, let's say you have a gemstone. Two people compete for it and it sells for one million dollars, there is however a third party, who doesn't want the gemstone. What is the gemstone worth?

You'll find that the answer depends on the person you're asking. To the third person the gemstone is worthless. You simply scale this up to billions of people and order books and exchanges. The value of the gemstone is that in which we give it. If you don't think Bitcoin is worth anything. Then it is worth nothing, to you. Yelling at others telling them that Bitcoin is worth nothing while it continues to rise in price is just as futile as trying to get the third person to value the gemstone.

We don't even need to go into Bitcoins value proposition, it doesn't even matter. The only thing that matters is what people are willing to pay, based on their own opinions. It's maybe a bit tricky for you to get your head around, but it's true. You have to think much more philosophically.

[Anonymous No.25199444]

>>25199351
i dont know anything about 30s germany, but i would assume it was essentially a centrally planned war economy of sorts.

if you want growth in the current system, you need to be able to lend money

[Anonymous No.25199510]

Idk what any of this means I’m just gonna continue to hold ETH and won’t fomo into btc at ath

[Anonymous No.25199536]

>>25197199
>
Learn to greentext retard

[Anonymous No.25199610]

>>25199365
The use for ETH is still speculation/trading on a decentralized platform. Bitcoin is exponentially more decentralized than ETH however. So, you're basically trading Pokemon cards with each other. None of them accomplish anything more than serving as speculative assets in and of themselves. None of them provide a purpose/profitability outside of that. This is what Bitcoin has already done, and much better. I'm not knocking ETH, I'm knocking all of the uselessness on top of it, could this change? Sure. In the meantime I think it's prudent to be in Bitcoin as institutions continue to flock in.

[Anonymous No.25199623]

>>25199384
>The nature of value is inherently subjective
No, it's not. The optimization goal is long-term maximization of energy production.
Why? Because if you don't, someone who does is going to grow more powerful and eventually completely destroy you, taking all your resources.
>You'll find that the answer depends on the person you're asking.
what you're talking about is short-term degeneracy in times of unprecedented affluence. It's not sustainable for previously mentioned reason - an entity (country, corp, whatever) which doesn't do bullshit like that is going to be more efficient and eventually kill you. Exponential growth has no mercy.
The current times of wasteful luxury are going to be an instant blip in world's history and people living in the future are going to view us with contempt and call it the time of collapse or something like that.

Individual opinions about value are only important insofar as they serve as a motivation tool to increase the worker's economic output - but same impulses that lead people to gamble on bitcoin can be redirected into much less wasteful computer games, or at least ponzi schemes without mining.

[Anonymous No.25199724]

>>25199510
right, you'll be FOMOing in at the top

[Anonymous No.25199808]

>>25199610
Things like Compound and Yearn Finance and Maker are already useful and profitable. If I needed to take a crypto loan, say to avoid taxes, i could go on maker or compound instead of trusting my crypto with blockfi. I can open a margin long too without trusting shitmex too. there's already tons of cool and useful shit you can do on eth.

[Anonymous No.25199824]

>>25197199
I bought pandacoin

[Anonymous No.25199918]

>>25197199
>Obviously you won't use blockchain for your financial planning sheets, or even "the internet 2.0"

>I think there is a world market for maybe five computers

>No one will need more than 637 kB of memory for a personal computer

>the internet? we are not interested in it

>There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home

[Anonymous No.25199943]

>>25199623
>No, it's not. The optimization goal is long-term maximization of energy production.

Ah I see, the issue here is semantics. I'm basing my definition of value on the traditional definition. Whereas for you, value is defined as an "optimization goal...long-term maximization of energy production."

You find value in something with those attributes. I could argue why Bitcoin fits those attributes, but it doesn't matter. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If I say my wife is priceless, and you say she's worthless, in the end, her value is defined by each of us. Whereas if we use your definition, the value becomes harder to define. Or would you argue that a person can't be assigned a value in such a way? This is why semantics is so important. The implications you give: "destroy you/eventually kill you" are only important if you yourself give them importance.

I think you get my point in terms of how I define value and how in that sense it is subjective. It might be an irrelevant point to you, but it's very important to remember. Your arguments as to why Bitcoin has no value (to you) is a separate issue.

[Anonymous No.25199953]

>>25199724
I already own some btc anon I’m just not going to add to my stack now we’re all gonna make it fren :)

[Anonymous No.25200010]

>>25197276
>>25197325
>>25197766
>>25198034
>>25198736
>>25199194
>>25199224
>>25199296
>>25199724
Maxipads are consistently terrible posters. Enjoy following the herd without even being able to articulate why.

[Anonymous No.25200098]

>>25199808
Yes that's true and I forgot to say that. It's a borrowing/lending platform. I think DeFi is at last an admission as well as a declaration that blockchain is really only useful as a form of money.

[Anonymous No.25200237]

>>25197199
>bitcoin maxi
>shills eth
kek nice try shitcoiner

[Anonymous No.25200257]

>>25197539
>How can you call yourself a maxi when you haven't even read The Bitcoin Standard?
i didn't read it either sounds like total boomer bollocks. my understanding of bitcoin is my own. don't need no mental crutches.

[Anonymous No.25200351]

>>25199943
>You find value in something with those attributes
>The implications you give: "destroy you/eventually kill you" are only important if you yourself give them importance.
It's because if you put intelligent entities with different valuation systems to compete with each other, the state after some finite steps is going to consist only of competitive growth maximizers - possibly one. A valuation system that doesn't inevitably lead to extinction is the lowest bar there is.
The only way out would be to have a world in which no such intelligent agent ever exists, but as the universe appears to be infinite, that's a physical impossibility. The fact that I wrote this is proof enough these ideas already exists here on Earth, and while individual humans are biologically incapable of really behaving like that, systems can, and people are capable of designing systems to function that way, and in fact corporations and states are close approximations, with the main issue being lack of intelligence on a system level rather than target function.
>I think you get my point in terms of how I define value and how in that sense it is subjective
yes - but my point is that's it's synonymous with suicidal. If you are willing to agree that considering bitcoin valuable is harmful on average (negative EV, non-zero variance), then we have no disagreement

[Anonymous No.25200421]

>>25200098
I think defi will become huge in the future. Imagine if I could buy stocks just like how I could buy shitcoins on uniswap. Imagine how much better company governance would be if we had voting like all the DAOs right now. Anyone can submit a proposal and anyone can vote on it, it's a lot better than electing some boomers onto the board of directors. Also, defi yields are a lot better than yields in traditional finance. people in foreign countries can buy stocks without having to go through a ton of hoops.
once the devs figure out scaling eth will be huge and it will unironically take over the world.

[Anonymous No.25200470]

>>25197494
this retard is actually arguing for inflation. kill yourself idiot

[Anonymous No.25200582]

>>25200098
Yes, I’d say money and maybe elections

[Anonymous No.25201165]

>>25200351
I think it's good to get these ground rules laid out, people take them for granted. Based on your initial post, we can also eschew it being a Ponzi scheme, as a Ponzi scheme is a specific thing - in which the investors are promised/given expectation of return on investment via profits, while the profits are simply paid out via the newer investors. Bitcoin can't be a Ponzi based in this regard.

>It's pure shit
Let's start by removing gold and Bitcoin from the world. In this scenario centralized governments wield greater control over everything. Their mistakes and abuses are now felt exponentially more. I'm guessing you're from the first world, as there are many countries where monetary destruction occurs at the existential level and isn't simple hyperbole - people suffer and die for generations at the hand of corrupt govts, it's hard to assign a metric to such things. Fiat is latin for "let it be done", it's money that's backed by the govt telling you it's backed by the govt.

Bitcoin offers an opt-out from these systems, and a pure, uncorrelated (you actually don't want gold to rise and fall via its industrial utility - that only distorts the clarity of its monetary value) medium of exchange. Gold is inflationary around 1.5% a year, the more gold is demanded - the more miners are incentivized to suppress the price of gold. This inflationary metric however is the true problem, it grows exponentially, where if you own 100% of the gold today, at 1.5% you will only own around 50% in 100 years time. That's the power of inflation. Bitcoin is also sleepless and borderless, attributes that gold and even modernized fiat can't claim.

By simply comparing Bitcoin to other things, you can begin to see its relative value.

[Anonymous No.25201176]

>>25200470
inflation is the final means of controlling debt.

[Anonymous No.25201317]

>>25197199
Too long didn’t read.

[Anonymous No.25201374]

>>25197199
Learn how to condense text and not write essays on a fucking imageboard OLDFAG

[Anonymous No.25201650]

>>25197199
>pay your taxes
yeah get fucked faggot dr;ns

[Anonymous No.25201656]

>>25201165
>Ponzi scheme is a specific thing - in which the investors are promised/given expectation of return on investment via profits, while the profits are simply paid out via the newer investors
That describes bitcoin, as investors are led to expect profits from a price rise, which comes from money of newer investors.
>In this scenario centralized governments wield greater control over everything
bitcoin is transparent with negligible throughput. It changes nothing at all in this regard. If it was more scalable and somehow adopted for payments, it would actually give governments more control, as it's trivial to enforce on-chain kyc due to extremely centralized miners.
>and a pure, uncorrelated
it can only stay uncorrelated if almost nobody buys it and it's traded by people unrelated to other assets. The moment it gets included into investment baskets it becomes correlated to other assets in the basket. There's nothing special here.
>you actually don't want gold to rise and fall via its industrial utility - that only distorts the clarity of its monetary value
Gold only had monetary value because it was used by states for money. Money has value because taxes are demanded in it. Gold was a physical technology for cash. It's now obsolete and gold isn't money anymore.
>This inflationary metric however is the true problem, it grows exponentially, where if you own 100% of the gold today, at 1.5% you will only own around 50% in 100 years time.
Scarcity isn't scarce, there's an infinite number of 'scarce' assets as defined by some set of rules and parameters, which is why it can't be a source of value.

What you hope for is that someone in the future gives you real wealth in exchange for your bitcoin, while others transfer real wealth to miners to allow bitcoin to exist. You hope to make others poorer and to profit on a fraction on their loss. Everyone holding bitcoin ever is in the same position, which mathematically means average bitcoin buyer must end up with a loss.

[Anonymous No.25201969]

>>25197539
>it was perverted by central banks using obfuscation
c-c-communism is good guys!!1!11!! It just hasn't been done MY way!!11!!1!

[Anonymous No.25201975]

>>25197199
Stop being such a useless faggot.
Look, it's very fucking simple, you can't have a monetary system that is about "accountability, auditability, and analytic review" that can't be used as a monetary system. Consider a pristine and perfect ledger in orbit around a star a few light years away, it's extremely hard to tamper with the ledger, so once it's there it's an extremely secure monetary system by the exact same logic that BTC Is.
But wait, such a monetary system would be utterly useless, completely dysfunctional, and would be ignored by competitive monetary systems that could offer similar guarantees regarding "accountability, auditability and analytic review" whilst actually being usable *as fucking monetary systems*.
The only reason BTC exists is to sabotage genuine cryptocurrencies that actually work and offer the same guarantees as BTC does. This is like blacksmiths financing nuclear fusion powered cars as eternal vapourware to stop internal combustion ones from being adopted, and in the meantime everybody is stuck with horses and their horseshoe interests aren't compromised.
The disgusting thing is people are stupid enough to have fallen for this, and self impressed dumb cunts like you actually think this is a marker of your intelligence.
Neck yourself.

[Anonymous No.25202089]

>>25201656

Solid points - anyone care to rebute?

[Anonymous No.25202148]

>>25197199
>rotate into a centralized communist token with infinite supply
i'm too smart to do that. never selling btc.
t. qualified for mensa, too smart to pay for the newsletter

[Anonymous No.25202168]

>>25199351
because 1930's germany worked out SO well for them hahahahhahaha
ngmi

[Anonymous No.25202186]

>>25202168
>the good guys won every war
kys

[Anonymous No.25202198]

>>25202089
the fact that it's all bullshit doesnt mean you cant make money with it

[Anonymous No.25202241]

>>25201656
>That describes bitcoin, as investors are led to expect profits from a price rise, which comes from money of newer investors.
No. "The scheme leads victims to believe that profits are coming from ***product sales or other means***, and they remain unaware that other investors are the source of funds."
>more scalable and somehow adopted for payments
This is where layer2/3rd parties come in. You don't need to transact in gold, use fiat as a currency, no investor ever says "we're going to invest in cash". Check out Michael Saylor's interviews. He goes into depth on this point.
>if almost nobody buys it and it's traded by people unrelated to other assets
It's its own asset class. Everything else is more correlated to something than Bitcoin, that's what makes it special.
>Gold only had monetary value because it was used by states for money.
Gold gained its value because everything else devalued to it. It was the hardest form of money that existed. States didn't "decide" anything, it arose organically.
>Gold obsolete/isn't money
Starting to get into semantics again. Whether or not it's "money", it has value.
>Scarcity isn't scarce, there's an infinite number of 'scarce' assets
This is an important one. Let's take Pokemon cards. There are a finite amount of Pokemon cards out there, but how do you get Pokemon cards to be programmable, borderless, sleepless, decentralized and trustless? If another thing had these qualities or did them better than Bitcoin, then that thing would acquire value, organically. Bitcoin wasn't successful because of an enigmatic founder or marketing or anything else. It succeeded despite profound amounts of skepticism. Everyone that's a Bitcoin bull now, was absolutely a skeptic in the beginning. Bitcoin doesn't care what you think about it.

[Anonymous No.25202287]

>>25201656

Anyways good chat, here's a write up I did if you're bored.

https://aqloe.medium.com/bitcoin-investors-letter-2020-7ce54550467e

Otherwise I recommend Michael Saylor, Raoul Pal, Saifedean Ammous, Preston Pysh and Jeff Booth if you haven't heard them. Worth a listen.

[Anonymous No.25202308]

>>25197199
yeah bro wage stagnation and increasing working hours despite efficency and technology advancing at an even faster phase is a total normal phenom non related to the financial system you're defending.
Inflation is necessary but not zimbwawe tier levels of inflation, look at house prices in developed nations compared to wages, why did they remove real state and hard assets from the equation?

[Anonymous No.25202550]

>>25198055
>Literally any fucking dollar equivalent that's described as 'safe and immutable' from a bank disabling your account. The fucking absolute fucking state.
What do you think happens when 99.999% of TX volume has to go through Bank of America sanctioned lightning hubs you thick fuck?

[Anonymous No.25202557]

>>25202241
>and they remain unaware that other investors are the source of funds
most bitcoin buyers are, they think it's a 'store of value', not realizing that what they put in is already gone and they need to take someone else's wealth to get anything back.
>This is where layer2/3rd parties come in
but they don't, payment use is negligible.
>You don't need to transact in gold
it was you who claimed it somehow takes power away from governments.
>It was the hardest form of money that existed
"hardest" is not a meaningful adjective.
>States didn't "decide" anything, it arose organically.
This is historically wrong, first known use of gold as money was about 600BC - it was used for tax payments of course. Written history is very spotty earlier.
Why else would people accept gold in exchange for something they need? Do you think a farmer would sell his grain for gold if he wasn't forced to? Of course not.
>Whether or not it's "money", it has value.
it's you who claimed that utility somehow distorts it's 'monetary value' - which it has none currently, as no state forces people to pay taxes in gold.
>If another thing had these qualities or did them better than Bitcoin, then that thing would acquire value, organically
what you wrote is equivalent to writing that bitcoin is best because it's currently the most popular coin, which has very weak predictive power for the future in general. The only special thing about bitcoin compared to other crypto coins is that it was first.

As it works as a ponzi scheme, each generation has incentive to move to its own schemes, as buying bitcoin is a wealth transfer to previous buyers. Ironically, some young people are buying now because they hope that boomer institutional investors later buy from them, but that's not going to work as a narrative in the future.

[Anonymous No.25202580]

>>25202557
>it's monetary value
its monetary value