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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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24237069 No.24237069 [Reply] [Original]

Leaf taxes: what kind of information do you have to provide beside your trades? Do you have to give up your wallet addresses or anything like that?

>> No.24237094

put the money in your bank and thats it

>> No.24237216

>>24237069
Idk last time I just said bitcoin they didn't ask shit

If they audit me I'm fucked though

>> No.24237277

>>24237069
just trades should be enough. does anyone know if binance reports to cra? I know they report to irs

>> No.24237450
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24237450

Bump

>> No.24237884

They say you're supposed to claim trades and keep a record of your day wallet addresses. I didn't report trades before, just net income, which apparently was wrong. If I get audited I'm fucked, I have no proof. I traded on coinsqaure and made a shit tonne then lost it on other exchanges. I think I had 40 million doge move through my account lol. I didn't know crypto to crypto was taxable.

>> No.24238059

>>24237884
Bro this is why so many people ended up oweing more on their taxes than they had attained by the time taxes were collected. All of a sudden coinbase has my transactions listed from four years ago. If IRS comes for me im literally driving to panama kek

>> No.24238228
File: 108 KB, 1063x781, tax.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
24238228

>>24237884
>>24237277
This is why I'm asking. They say to keep those records. I assume you don't have to report that level of detail and it's just for getting audited.
> does anyone know if binance reports to cra?
Did you do KYC on Binance?
In any case, they can track all your transactions if they have any of your wallet addresses, can't they?

>> No.24238402

what happens if you get audited? do they take everything or just make you pay the correct amount?

>> No.24238460

A famous crypto whale had a fun thought on this. Theoretically, it's possible for some cryptos to trade at negative prices due to the huge legal/tax liability that they will become in there future

>> No.24238527

Crypto tax is so vague and retarded it's like they want you to commit fraud. I'm going to keep a list of all of my shit, fit it into a CSV, then report capital gains and tell them to fuck off.

>> No.24238615

never paying
fuck tr*deau and his mafia

>> No.24238638

When I reported capital gains from BTC in 2017, I just typed "Bitcoin" into the capital gains section of QuickTax software and put in the amount. I guess if they audit you you would have to show a record of trades. Not sure what people with no records do. I guess they would just assume a cost basis of $0?

>> No.24238679

in canada stay away from utility tokens, they are considered non-exempt from gst/hst registration, meaning if you are selling over $25,000 of them you have to remit gst/hst on the sales

>> No.24238749

>>24238228
No exchanges don't do trades on chain. They could track input out to various wallets, or trades on a dex
>>24238059
It shouldn't matter for Canadians because you can back date capital losses. So ultimately it should work out to your overall gain, but my problem is I have no idea how to prove what I'm saying is true.

>> No.24238864

guys why is c2c being taxable a big deal? it's the difference between buy and sell so is it not the same amount in the end as if you just held?

>> No.24238896

>>24238615
this,
they're rogue and have no legal high ground over any man up here at this point.
just keep within God's law and you'll have no problems.

>> No.24239066

I read somewhere getmetrics. ca are good for taxes.

Depends how much you wanna cashout, if its 100k +, I think it would be worth it to open a company offshore or something

>> No.24239242
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24239242

>>24237069
If I've literally not withdrawn any crypto or traded and just HODL'd for a year do I have to report anything? Or do I only have to report when I withdraw to fiat?

Also the CRA ARE NIGGERS

>> No.24239348

>>24239242
Any time you trade it's the same as if you had cashed out that amount. If you bought and haven't made a single trade, purchase, or withdraw, you do not need to report for that year.
If you make any of the above, you have a taxable sale and will need to calculate the price at that particular moment and treat it as a sale

>> No.24239359

>>24238638
yeah I just report what cash actually comes out of crypto. I think it's fair, I'm paying taxes on realised gains (dollars).
if they want to be greedier than that then I'll just move to another country and trade there.

>> No.24239617

>>24239348
If I've only used a swap, is that considered a trade?

>> No.24239702

>>24239617
Yes. Hard for them to figure that out though unless they track the wallet you withdrew to from whichever exchange you bought from.

>> No.24239744

>>24239348
how the hell can they keep track of trades done on a wallet like exodus?

>> No.24239760

Also in Canada and yeah, I think I'm in a bit of a weird position too. I haven't made too much money relatively in crypto, around 20k CAD atm. I haven't done anything to cash any of it out. I've done quite a few swing trades here and there, but most of them resulted in losing profit if anything (yeah, I know).

How much would I be looking to owe if I cashed out 50-100% of it? Is it possible I would actually owe far more than I made simply because I haven't kept up with records until very recently? I'm scared bros

>> No.24239883

brainlet here, can someone explain how the calculation works?
say I have two scenarios, scenario 1 I trade btc for eth then for usd. scenario 2 I just trade btc for usd. Are they not taxed the exact same amount? or am I missing something?

scenario 1:
15k btc - > 30k eth->100k usd

swap 1: 15k*50%=7.5k taxable
swap 2: 70k*50%=35k taxable
total: 7.5k+35k=42.5k taxable

scenario 2:
15k btc ->100k usd

swap: 85k*50%=42.5k taxable
total: 42.5k taxable

both are 42.5k taxable when cashing out 100k, so why is taxing crypto to crypto so hated if its all the same amount in the end?

>> No.24239934

>>24239760
chances are they won't look into anything below 10k
I've worked jobs under the table and was depositing around $4k a month cash for many months and didn't claim any of it as taxable income or anything
nobody said a peep to my about it

>> No.24240131

>>24239760
You won't owe anything, but like I said, I don't know how you really prove trades if you are audited. Burgers have it a lot worse because you can't back date all your capital losses like you can in Canada. So it SHOULD balance out unless there shit like
>>24238679
But idk anything about that

>>24238864
Because you create taxable events for the given year


>>24239744
You'd have to use the block explorer if you didn't keep a record then get all the times the trade occured and convert your shitcoin into BTC then BTC into CAD.

>>24238460
It's fairly clear now but 3 years ago when crazy gains were had it was a complete shit show

>>24239934
This is what I'm hoping for because I only cashed out 9500 and I claimed it as capital gains. They requested through the courts that Coinsqaure hand over all customer data since 2014 or some shit. Hopefully they only go after big withdraws that didn't claim

>> No.24240144

>>24239883
Are people fucking mental? 50% capital gains tax? So I make $10 and they get $5?

LMAO as if im gonna report that shit

>> No.24240230

>>24240144
its 50% TAXABLE, meaning they tax you on that 50% depending on your bracket. it doesnt all go to them

>> No.24240232

Is there any reason I can't just subtract what I cash out from what I put in and call that my net capital increase/decrease? They say every crypto-to-crypto is taxable, but wtf does that even mean? You would be have capital gains either way. Is there any meaningful difference between going from 100 to 200 by holding one cryptocurrency vs trading a bunch of cryptocurrencies in between?

>> No.24240257

>>24240230
Ok thanks for clearing that up. I'm actually a big sheltered brainlet who still lives with his parents and have my dad do my taxes.

>> No.24240334

>>24239883
Because people who don't realize do crypto to crypto trades creating taxable events. People do a bunch of trades and it creates a cluster fuck of a mess. I had literally 1000s of trades. Like I said though, it's not bad in Canada but other countries you get fucked.
>Buy shitcoin
>Make 100k profit
>Sell buy some other shitcoin in December
>Taxable event. You now have 100k capital gains
>Shitcoin tanks in Jan
>Lose 100k
You now have no money and need to pay tax on 100k capital gains from last year. In Canada you back date it. In america you get fucked by uncle sammy

>>24240144
No 50% is taxable income. So you'd pay tax on half of your gains corresponding to the tax bracket that income falls in

>> No.24240375

>>24240232
I mean it sort of makes sense if you think about it from a foreign exchange pov. Don't we have to pay tax if we're exchanging from CAD to USD at the bank or the money exchange?

>> No.24240423

>>24237069
I’ve cashed out 500k over the years via atms and a few otc desks, Trudeau can suck my asshole after a diheria shit

>> No.24240752

>>24240334
Here's the thing though, you can subtract capital losses from capital gains. That's why I don't see why you can't just subtract what you take out from what you've put in (assuming you take everything out).

>> No.24240775

>>24237069
what trades?

>> No.24240885

>>24240423
Fuggin based

>> No.24240899

>>24240334
If your shitcoin tanks in Jan and you sell, that's a capital loss you retard. It will cancel out the gains. Just pay someone to do your taxes if you're too stupid to handle it.

>> No.24240905

if you owe serious money...the way around avoiding taxes and audits is to wait at least 7 years before cashing out anything. by that time, CRA is not able to audit you

>> No.24240908

>>24239883
is this actually correct? I have to say I have always just assumed you would pay more in taxes if crypto to crypto is taxable. without ever having done the math.

>> No.24240914

how can i provide information on my trades, if half of the shitty exchanges where i trade in the past 6 years are dead ?

>> No.24241057

kek i dont remember the password to the coins i bought years ago, i think i fucked up bad if they ask me for more information, I dont see " i dont have access to those coins anymore" working...

>> No.24241120
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24241120

>>24240334
I’ve been in crypto since about may. Invested about 3500 through CB, I’m sitting at 8k now.
Back in July I was doing multiple trades per day between shot coins trying to swing. Yea I lost quite abit but I’m up now. I know it’s a fuck all amount compared to some here but I want to do the ‘right’ thing going ahead so i don’t get my shit pushed by CRA. I already owe a lot from the past two years (small business).
With all the covid bullshit happening this year I had in my head “I’m just not going to pay tax. Fuck it. People are making a ‘living’ getting paid by the govt for sitting on their ass, with the tax money I would be paying..where is the Justice in this?”
Although the principal still applies it’s not realistic, or smart.
I still have a shot at a future with my company and have some expensive assets, including an airplane. If CRA wants to fuck me, they can and will.
Crypto has been a good distraction from these facts but in reality I’ve just been digging my hole deeper from a tax standpoint. I haven’t withdrawn any of my small returns yet but I would like to learn how to lessen or avoid some of the tax in the small chance I make a little $ In crypto.
I get taxed essentially 50% of my income as it is and now realistically will have to pay 50% of any gains I make, too.
I am beyond tired of this shit. It’s demoralizing. But that’s the idea, isn’t it?
Any help or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
I’ve lurked In probably 15 of these threads, no one really seems to know what to do.
t.30yo drooling newfag

>> No.24241124

>>24240905
wait 7 years after what? your last trade?

so if i have 2 million $ right now in crypto, you are saying that i need to wait 7 years before cashing out? i need to work at Mcdo for another 7 years even if i know im already a millionaire?

>> No.24241160

>>24240899
>>24240752

Not when it's different tax years you mong. Americans can only back date 3k in losses. It will be a capital loss you can carry forward but that doesn't help with the previous year's tax bill.

>> No.24241168

Anyone here offshoring/funnelling through a foreign company? How you bringing your assets back into Canada? The CRA has the quadriga logs btw.

>> No.24241220

crypto tax laws in this country are retarded. if crypto to crypto is taxable, then what do you make of gas fees? my plan is to give what I roughly estimate I owe and if I get audited I'll let the poor dumb government working pajeet go through the block explorer and figure out how much I owe.

>> No.24241358

You’re biggest concern is if some random boomer doing the audit arbitrarily decides you have too many trades and labels it as business income. Also staking/farming has no guidelines but one can assume it works like the us and is subject to being taxed as income at a higher rate and due that tax year not when you cash out. Of course you also get the added benefit of being taxed again on that staked coin when you do decide to cash it out. Since there are technically no written rules in this yet you could fight it in court I suppose but good luck.

>tldr the system is rigged against you.

>> No.24241499

>>24241160
Ah yes I see.

>> No.24241600

so in theory I could just cash out from crypto atm and never pay taxes?

>> No.24241870

>>24241600
No, selling generates a taxable event.
Just read koinly's guide or better yet the federal government's...
It's all there. Sit down and read for once. This goes for everyone, not just you.

>> No.24241916

>>24241600
Some people trade for cash directly but yeah

>> No.24242592

So the take away from this thread like all the others seems to be
>pay taxes or don’t then hope for the best you don’t get audited and if you do who knows how far they will go or how they will do it at all
Sound about right?

>> No.24242672

>>24242592
pretty much

>> No.24242790

>>24237884
There has to be some form of amnesty if you jist paid it as general income right? The regulations around the space is evolving everyday, as long as your declared what you cashed out they surely can give you a break right? Right??? PLEASE TELL ME I'M RIGHT I'VE TRADED 1000 SHITCOINS OVER THE YEARS AAAAAAHHHHH

>> No.24242871

America you can only date back 3k loss so some people gain 1mill then get liquated the following year they still need to pay 1mill in gains tax. Is it the same for canadians? links would be great!

>> No.24242964

do they manually do it? Maybe if you do 1000 trades a month They say fuck it and dont even try to audit you lol

>> No.24243071

>>24242592
I guess if you wanna be paranoid all your life about getting caught, CRA doesn't fuck with that stuff around I hear

>> No.24243155

>>24243071
I really can’t see how they have to logistics to do any of this. Especially considering the shit going on with cerb abuse etc but wouldn’t put it past them

>> No.24243187

>>24242964
This is what I'm trying to understand, where is the man power coming from to audit the fucking mess that is the average crypto trader? My etherscan is an utter cluster fuck of trading over the years, are they gonna have some intern validated the dollar price of eth into yfikeep3r V3 into GummyMagic.finance into Link back into ETH for 3 years? Fucking how?

>> No.24243212

Canada is a literal third world banana public that exists for laundering money. Do you actually think the real estate situation could get as bad as it could if the CRA did their job? The fucking MINISTER OF FINANCE forgot to disclose 41K in compensation years after the fact and he just said "oops" and paid it back and the CRA won't do fucking SHIT. If you pay taxes here on crypto you are actually fucking retarded.

>> No.24243224

>>24243155
I'm going to write a computer program that easily calculates this stuff and sell it to the govt
I'll make millions while /biz/ gets btfo

>> No.24243297

>>24238896
Yes nothing bad ever happens to "sovereign citizens". Wink wink

>> No.24243321

>>24243155
Being in the service industry I've heard enough stories, who knows what it's like for crypto though. You will still be paranoid because of the unknown unless you have insider info. I hear they aren't going to go easy on the CERB fraudsters either, but yeah it would be pretty hard to track down homeless drug addicts and get them to pay back their debt until they reintegrated into society

>> No.24243481

>>24243187
i mean it sounds like something that's really easy to automate actually

>> No.24243570

>>24240423
Do coin atm's have any business reporting anything to the cra? He ATMs in toronto have a 10k limit which is nice. Some of them ask for ID past 1000 dollars. Any info would be appreciated thanks

>> No.24243594

>>24243321
They have to go easy on the CERB fraudsters though. For like what 6k? Auditing poor peasants only works on a probabilistic basis to instill fear as the cost to pursue and collect is not worth it for meagre amounts. So for CERB they cannot possibly pursue all the fraudsters because the cost would be far more than the amount they would collect back. This is the government we are talking about, they have no incentive to be cost effective. There will be amnesty for CERB fraud, it is guaranteed.

>> No.24243658

>>24243187
Whats weirder, you cant even get information on experience of someone being audited,

You can google or go on /r/bitcoinCA you rarely get someone to talk about or mention someone they know getting audited even as far back from threads from 4 years ago

>> No.24244037

>>24243658
The questionnaire is insanely invasive.

https://www.scribd.com/document/401254249/CRA-cryptocurrency-audit-Questions

They can compel documents but I believe you have the right to silence. Audits often attempt to compel admissions so pass everything through a lawyer.

Your best bet is to fake being retarded. But as you say there appear to be zero documented cases of anybody being nailed.

>> No.24244187

>>24244037
>https://www.scribd.com/document/401254249/CRA-cryptocurrency-audit-Questions

>how frequently do you engage in cryptocurrency transactions?
>how much time do you spend studying the cryptocurrency market and investigating potential purchases?

I want all Canadian anons to listen up. These questions are related to how the CRA is going to determine if your crypto activity is Capital Gain or Business Income. Capital Gain is taxed at 50% of the gain, while 100% of business income is taxed. Google search Capital Gain vs business income in crypto and do the research. Alot of Canadians actually don't know this. And yes the CRA is vague as fuck about the what the criteria is for "business income" and it's usually looked at on a case-by-case basis. That's why hiring a crypto CPA is important if you're making in the tens of thousands of dollars.

>> No.24244413

>>24244187
yeah it retarded if you actually research and try to make money they double your taxes

>> No.24244622

>>24243224
This is the most kike thing I have seen on this board.
Well done.
Here’s a (you)

>> No.24244798

>>24244413
So basically play a retard. Maybe claim mental deficiency..
Eg: say you were just finding a way to distract from covid. The lockdowns turned my life into a shitfuck mess and I was coping by making uniformed crypto trades in the hopes of making back some of the money you lost under lockdown.
Also insist you had no idea on the laws of trading, as I didn’t seem very important at the time. I wasn’t of sound mind etc etc
Idk. At the beginning of this thread I actually was here to get a legit answer on how to handle this and was concerned.
I don’t give a fuck anymore. Lockdown 2 is coming to AB.
Time to do more trading I guess.

>> No.24244972

>>24241870
idiot

>> No.24245009

>>24243594
>6k
14k in total for the 7 months that it ran. I'm not so sure it will be forgiven, but maybe they will freeze the interest on the debt for a while? Regardless, that's a cloud hanging over your head and being sent letters about it all the time even if they don't go for something more drastic

>> No.24245160
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24245160

>YOU WILL PAY THE TAX

>> No.24245414

>>24243481
I'm going to automate my reporting.

>> No.24245463

>>24244798
>But as you say there appear to be zero documented cases of anybody being nailed

I said it was rare like this one on /r/bitcoinCA on a AMA on being audited by the CRA. Just ONE person replied

>I received the notice that I was being audited. I gave it to my accountant.

My accountant then asked me to drop off my boxes from 2015 & 2016. He then put together all the information they were requesting and submitted it to the cra.

I then received a big bill from the cra for taxes they felt i owed from their audit. I gave that bill/letter to my accountant who sent in a formal challenge.

I received a new re adjusted bill for 0 a month later.

>> No.24245839

>>24245463
I think we are vastly overestimating the competency of the CRA and govt as a whole.
Since childhood we’ve been conditioned to believe that tax paying is absolute, next to only death itself.
Even thoughts of not paying it is tantamount to high treason.
Couple months back I sperged out in front of my family about not paying tax in a moment of weakness.
For that moment they stopped being my family. In their eyes I was a dangerous dissident that could not be tolerated. I was almost expecting a vibe check from the police after.
Maybe cra once they see how much of a insurmountable task it would be to figure out a crypto traders records that they may just say ‘fuck it’ altogether. Especially for amounts under 25k..

>> No.24246009

>>24245839

But i suggest you keep a record of every single trade though just in case

>> No.24246084

>>24246009
I mean..fuck.
Possible since I just started In May but I bet there is 30 on CB and 50 on uni

>> No.24246117

hey fellow canadians which is the best exchange for us leaflets

>> No.24246176

>>24246084
>Possible since I just started In May but I bet there is 30 on CB and 50 on uni

You're lucky, Most users lost most their trades when Quadriga exit scammed

>> No.24246274

>>24237069
If they try shaking me down, I will leave Canada. Absolutely no attachment to this country and I have enough money to live somewhere else

>> No.24246369

>>24245463
pretty much this is all that would happen. Don't sweat it, if they come after you, just pay it. But until then fuck 'em

>> No.24246414
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24246414

>Wanted to abolish the capital gains tax
>Loses his only seat

>> No.24246505

>>24246176
Are there any exchanges that don’t tell on you?
Seems like a good idea to get off coonbase

>> No.24246529

>>24246414
15 years ahead of his time.
I agreed with nearly every policy he had but this nigga still have Trudeau a second term.

>> No.24247573

>>24246505
im pretty sure all exchanges would choke

>> No.24247615

Do I even need to worry if I don't cash out

>> No.24247751

>>24237069
How do canadian taxes differ from us taxes?
Can i just get a mcjob in the us and cash out there?

>> No.24247820

i don't risk the CRA's wrath. personally im keeping track of all my trades