BTC vs GOLD

[Anonymous No.24025803]

the most important discussion in the world today. anyone with half a brain knows fiat is a ponzi scheme. the question is - bitcoin or gold? whats the best alternative and why? I just cant wrap my head around bitcoin. its not TANGIBLE and physical, and any number of carbon copies can be made. what happens when governments ban fiat on ramping? its not like gold where you can truly have privacy and transact offline.

I want a genuine discussion here, not a bagholding cope general.

[Anonymous No.24025823]

Ask yourself the following question.
Did bitcoin fulfill its mission of being a digital currency?

[Anonymous No.24025826]

Silver and litecoin

[Anonymous No.24025857]

>>24025803
Why not both? I don’t see why people assume you have to pick just one.
The governments banning argument against bitcoin can also be applied to gold governments have banned gold in the past and required citizens to give it up in exchange for fiat

[Anonymous No.24025868]

>>24025803

Alleged advantages of BTC over gold: It is instantly transmittable, and highly divisible

Answer to alleged advantages: Gold can also have these properties too, whether by means of gold-backed cryptos like Kinesis, or gold-backed currencies in the banking system.

Alleged advantage of BTC over gold: Privacy

Answer to alleged advantage: BTC stores every transaction on a public ledger. This is why the celebrity Twitter hackers were caught within days, and the money from the Silk Road has been recovered. Additionally, if you want to use BTC as a currency, you have to go through Blockstream's second-layer solutions which track and trace everything you do. So BTC has no privacy.

Gold, on the other hand, can be physically transmitted by hand in complete privacy.

Disadvantages of BTC over keeping gold in a vault:

You lose your life-savings after

i) Getting tortured for ten minutes
ii) Getting memory-loss or dementia;
iii) Making a thoughtless mistake;
iv) From a fire or natural disaster;
v) From burglary;
vi) From hardware failure.

Disadvantages of BTC over gold:

1) BTC will collapse once the price sinks under the cost of production for the miners.

2) Most BTC miners are in China.

3) BTC is propped up by the fiat ponzi scheme of tether.

4) BTC has no intrinsic value. Hence Russia, China, and other nations which actually produce the goods and commodities we use will never accept it in exchange for them. When fiat collapses, BTC will be priced in gold at 0.

5) BTC is over-complicated. No normal person will ever set up an LN node; they are happy to keep using the modern banking system. As using the LN compromises privacy anyway, there will be no reason to use BTC second-layer over gold-backed currencies in the banking system. BTC without second-layer demands $100 fees and 3-day transaction times, and so is, of course, impossible to use as a currency.

[Anonymous No.24025892]

>>24025868

Tether is about to cause the most catastrophic rug-pull in human history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFVK9SxKR5c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzDjJ-SrojY

New information on the tether lawsuit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/jrr3ny/recent_fillings_exit_the_ponzi_playground_at_all/

More information on Bitcoin:

https://blog.plan99.net/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7?gi=63d0d0ef554a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfcvX0P1b5g

As of today, seven-day printing-rate of tether is $38 billion per annum.

I suspect that the CFTC knows that tether is a scam, but they won't audit it for the same reason that they won't audit the COMEX. Crypto is an Adam Back/Blockstream-created ponzi to split the anti-fiat community. The COMEX already would have gone bankrupt if our efforts had been fully concentrated on physical silver during these past ten years. Once fiat collapses, BTC becomes priced in gold, and all crypto (as being the fruit of the poisoned tree) immediately goes to zero.

"To overturn the history of gold is wishful thinking. Fully backed Gold and silver substitutes and circulating coins are practical and acceptable for 7bn transacting individuals. BTC will then have no role and sink to zero priced in gold." - Alasdair Macleod, 8 November 2020

[Anonymous No.24025958]

>its not TANGIBLE and physical
Why does this matter? You disregard Peter Schiff when it comes to talking points like that, he pulls talking points out of his ass that do no pertain to economics. "Intrinsic value" is not a thing, value is subjective. Sometimes people can come to value something just knowing that innumerable others value it.

>and any number of carbon copies can be made.
That's not the same thing as bitcoin suffering from inflation. So why does that matter. There's no dilution of the supply of bitcoin there.

>what happens when governments ban fiat on ramping? its not like gold where you can truly have privacy and transact offline.
What country are you in? Seems very very unlikely in the United States, having watched previous congressional hearings on bitcoin/crypto legislation. Pic related is a US congressman. Maybe go watch some of the congressional hearings if you are concerned.

[Anonymous No.24025976]

>>24025803
Save up 6 tot 12 months of living expenses in fiat.
Buy gold with 1/3 of it, 1/2 if you're feeling comfortable.
Put a few % of your monthly paycheck in BTC, more if you're feeling comfortable.
Here you go, Anon.

[Anonymous No.24025981]

>>24025958
Damn I should proof read
**you should disregard Peter

[Anonymous No.24025996]

>>24025803
Bitcoin - will get fucked when all the computers running it get fucked
Gold - will get fucked when someone finds a space gold rock to fuck
Even so, I'll still pick both options.

[Anonymous No.24026028]

>>24025958
dont even bother educating these retarded animals.
let their paper-gold market get rehypothecated to give them their 2.6% yearly gains and forget about them.

[Anonymous No.24026126]

>>24025892
Anything posted on /r/btc at this point is just going to be pure radioactive resentment and cope, you're better served not collecting your conspiracy theories from a gang of losers who just want to see bitcoin go down because they chose wrong and want to circlejerk together to assure themselves they were always right. People were schizo posting about tether four years ago, and they'll be doing it four years in the future when the price of BTC is much higher.

[Anonymous No.24026139]

>>24025958

>"Intrinsic value" is not a thing, value is subjective.

Red herring. Whether we say that BTC doesn't have intrinsic value, or that it will never be perceived to have intrinsic value, the consequence is the same. After the dollar dies, Russia and China will never toil to produce goods and commodities in exchange for Bitcoin. They will make us pay for them in gold.

[Anonymous No.24026154]

>>24025868
Keep BTC in a vault at xapo. Literally no different.

[Anonymous No.24026188]

>>24025868
You’re an emotional trainwreck. Few facts, lots of erroneous opinions.

[Anonymous No.24026195]

BTC is better if the world goes full WW3 and you need to get your wealth out of country. With BTC if you can get you body and mind out sound, then you can gather your BTC form any internet terminal. If The Communist People's Officers of Wealth Distribution Cletus and Jamal find out you've been hoarding gold after the great reset, they will redistribute it up each-other's assholes and send you to the labor camps.

[Anonymous No.24026203]

Bitcoin is the hardest money in the history of humankind. It’s harder than my dick

[Anonymous No.24026230]

>>24025803

Hi anon,
Michael Saylor covers this pretty well in recent interviews. He's a rocket scientist billionaire entrepreneur genius that just put his half a billion dollar treasury all in bitcoin.

[Anonymous No.24026312]

How cuck you have to be to be holding ''BTC of 1000 A.C.?''
You metalMongoloids

[Anonymous No.24026315]

>>24026230

Reminds me of Stanley Druckenmiller buying the top of the tech bubble and losing $3 billion in a single day.

[Anonymous No.24026412]

>>24025958
>its not TANGIBLE and physical
>Why does this matter?
my thoughts here are that btc is much more sensitive than gold
btc requires large and advanced infrastructure such as stable and cheap electricity, stable, cheap and global internet connections, a large and steady supply of advanced integrated circuitry to the miners and lots and lots of tech/capital to keep it all running
gold requires nothing, it just sits there

with that said I don’t think the world is going to lose electricity/internet/gpu supply anytime soon, especially not globally
but the fact that it could happen has to be factored in

I own both gold and btc btw, 60% gold, 40%btc

[Anonymous No.24026683]

>>24026315
Did you listen to his various points?

[Anonymous No.24026731]

>>24025958
>>24026412
another question blockchain integrity
how much effort would it actually take for a large government to completely fuck over btc for all eternity?
with a 51% attack you could double spend btc to 0 and disrupt transactions for as long as you control the hash power
with gold there isn’t much you can do except steal it and if you do, that’s all you’ve done, everything else will still be working

[Anonymous No.24026760]

>>24026683

He's just like every other billionaire hedge-fund boomer putting money into Bitcoin. Says nothing about the block-size debate, the exiling of Mike Hearn and Gavin Andresen, the capturing of BTC by Blockstream and the banks, the uselessness of BTC as a currency, the probable identity of Satoshi as Adam Back, BTC's inevitable destruction of privacy via second-layer solutions, the tether scam, the many intrinsic disadvantages of crypto as compared to gold which I outline in my posts. >>24025892 >>24025868

[Anonymous No.24026790]

>>24026139
iran already disagrees

[Anonymous No.24026871]

>>24026790

Iran is confiscating people's Bitcoin, not using it. Their Bitcoin has no velocity. They legislated that all miners send them their coins. It's essentially Executive Order 6102.

[Anonymous No.24026981]

Gold is inflationary.

Do you think the gold mining companies are accurately reporting how much gold they mine before they quietly sell it into the market?

Do you think if the powers that be ever developed a cheap way to make gold in a lab, they would tell you about it?

[Anonymous No.24027008]

>>24026871
if it had no value, they wouldn’t be taking it. they take it to keep people poor.

[Anonymous No.24027018]

These threads really show how powerful the shilling of BTC has been by the cult. BTC should have died in 2017 bubble but instead it was resurrected by tether ponzi and extreme social media and youtube shilling. BTC network has been dying since the bubble burst which is indicated by the volume – nobody is transacting in the network. Second layer solutions just make it centralized shitcoin. There are so many reasons why BTC will fail, but fundamentally it is similar to TSLA stock or the famous tulip mania. It’s just pure speculation and it will die with FIAT money if not before that. As already pointed out when FIAT dies no one is going to exchange real life commodities for BTC. Governments are hoarding gold, nobody (that matters) is buying BTC except. The institutional money has been a meme since the beginning. In addition BTC can die independently of FIAT since if the price of BTC drops under the mining cost it is no longer economically viable to mine, i.e. maintain the network. This might sound unlikely but considering the current tether ponzi and the halvening I think we are quite close to it.

Finally BTC is not digital gold it is backed by absolutely nothing. The fact that it takes huge amount of energy does not make it so that the coin is worth anything. You can not extract this energy out of your token. If you dig up gold you are separating rare earth element and every single element has unique properties which can be used in applications and therefore gold and silver as physical elements will always hold intrinsic value.

[Anonymous No.24027109]

>>24027008

BTC has temporary, propped up, fiat-bestowed value. Confiscating it is no different from (say) confiscating everybody's American tech stocks. Those tech stocks are still going to lose their value when fiat goes to zero, just as BTC will.

[Anonymous No.24027192]

>>24025803
Read the Bitcoin Standard for a proper comparison.
I hold gold and link. Reason for link over bitcoin is the link network has industrial applications as far networks go but the token is more scarce than gold.
The point about scarcity applies to bitcoin as well. In gold as well as all physical assets, as the price for it increases so to does the production. New mines come online producing gold from more expensive to mine deposits. There is no limit to the amount of gold that can be mined as the gold in the Earth alone could form a small moon. This is not case with bitcoin or link. These digital assets have a coded limit that cannot be increased without producing a fork which doesn't change the supply of the original chain. This means , for bitcoin, that as price increases, more miners come online, and the network adjusts the mining difficulty resulting in the same amount of bitcoin being created as if a single laptop were the only computer mining. With Link there is no mining. The coins have all been created and that's that.

[Anonymous No.24027210]

In this thread: /pmg retards whining about bitcoin. If you don’t understand it at this point, you might as well invest in bibs and helmets because you’re fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.24027230]

>>24026760
all these problems are solved gradually by altcoins (not by gold). bitcoin dominance will slowly drop, but it will probably be 10-20 years before it loses the top spot, and before that it will probably make it to $1m. just diversify into some "blue-chip" cryptos like ETH, LINK, ADA, etc and you’ll be fine.

"no intrinsic value" retards can be dismissed out of hand. a system of credit that cant be inflated and is highly resistant to hacking/cointerfeiting has obvious value.

[Anonymous No.24027325]

>>24027230

Alt-coins can't solve the problem for three reasons,

1) After BTC collapses, people will see that alt-coins will inevitably fall to human corruption, just as BTC did, and so consider them as the fruit of the poisoned tree;

2) Nations like Russia and China won't take alt-coins for goods and commodities after the fall of fiat, because they equally lack any intrinsic value;

3) Not a single crypto is capable of replacing the modern banking system and serving as money. Even the ones which attempt to rival it with enormous block-sizes (like BSV) are extremely vulnerable and centralized, and even then they can't serve as money for more than a small fraction of the world population.

[Anonymous No.24027445]

>>24027109
if all the currencies of the world go to zero, gold will go to zero too because most people would rather have gold than food and guns.

of course that will never happen because there is no timeline where people stop using currency. as long as people use currency instead the barter system, an asset’s value AS A CURRENCY will always be there to give it value. gold may have value IN ADDITION to its value as a currency, but a pure currency also has value for its utility.

[Anonymous No.24027467]

>>24025868
Again. How is a lighting transaction less private than an on chain one?

[Anonymous No.24027501]

>>24026760
Yes he does, admittedly he has a lot of interviews but he covers these topics. Let me get at these points but first off, Bitcoin isn't being espoused anymore as a means of exchange, it's being hailed as the new store of value. That's the use case, and all the arguments will stem from there.

>Block size
BCH has smaller block size and is also less secure. There's a reason Bitcoin has the block size that it does. Michael's point on this is that you're never going to get closer to the user than Apple. Apple Pay is too easy, fast, cheap, etc. It doesn't matter if BCH is 20x faster than BTC because VISA is one million times faster than BCH. Transacting over the blockchain is too slow and works infinitely faster when it's centralized. Roger Ver himself says you're not in BCH to make money, you're in it for the idealogical reasons. The block size is the perfect balance of where it needs to be if it's going to overtake gold as the new store of value. Gavin Andersen is in the same boat as Ver on this point.

>Blockstream
You don't have to use Blockstream, you don't have to custody your Bitcoin with anyone. This is going to happen with any conceivable asset - centralized parties with massive wealth are going to get into it regardless.

>Adam Back
Perhaps the greatest thing about Bitcoin is that everyone can have their own opinion on who Satoshi is. This means that they can create their own idea of this person based on their own beliefs - kind of like God. It means Satoshi isn't picked apart by their politics and personal life(s).

>Destruction of privacy
You can transact completely off the grid (ATM's) if you want to, so the choice is yours. Or use Monero.

I'll look at your gold points in a sec.

[Anonymous No.24027503]

>>24025868
>quantumcomputer blocks your path

Bitcoin doesn't have any long term future

[Anonymous No.24027526]

>>24027325
>people will see that (digital currency has no value)
>PEOPLE WILL SEE
kek

people pay millions of dollars for rare pokemon cards. as long as people will pay money for a piece of cardboard, they will pay for a digital currency, especially one that protects them from inflation.

[Anonymous No.24027575]

>>24025868
Second layers like lightning are more private, stopped reading after that

[Anonymous No.24027593]

>>24027445

>if all the currencies of the world go to zero, gold will go to zero too because most people would rather have gold than food and guns.

The world isn't going to look like a Fallout game after the fall of fiat. There will simply be the greatest wealth-transfer in history from West to East. Gold thrived in all previous economic collapses; see e. g. Weimar Germany. It doubled during the Great Depression, and Homestake Mining (the ancestor of Barrick Gold) went up 6x.

[Anonymous No.24027618]

If you're smart, on bitcoins reversal you'll switch to miners, then from miners back to Bitcoin or some kind of Crypto, then from Crypto to hard assets(which include physical gold).

[Anonymous No.24027644]

>>24027575

>Second layers like lightning are more private, stopped reading after that

"Lightning Network Privacy in Grave Doubt: Attacker Can Easily Get Channel Balances; Design Flaws"

"An Empirical Analysis of Privacy in the Lightning Network (Empirical), published late last month, researchers from the University College London, Nym Technologies, University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, PISA Research, and IC3 “explored the three main privacy properties of the Lightning Network.”

After a seemingly exhaustive 17 page study, Empirical concluded “each property is susceptible to attacks by nodes who are either active (in the case of our balance and payment discovery attacks) or passive (in the case of our path attack),” noting especially how “the same interfaces that allow users to perform the basic functions of the network, such as connecting to peers and routing payments, can also be exploited to learn information that was meant to be kept secret.”"

https://coinspice.io/news/lightning-network-privacy-in-grave-doubt-attacker-can-easily-get-channel-balances-design-flaws/

(1/2)

[Anonymous No.24027654]

>>24025826
This annon knows

90% for in person
LTC for blockcard online etc

[Anonymous No.24027662]

>>24027644
>>24027575

"If the LN becomes centralized into one big hub and everybody connected to it by one channel (which so far seems inevitable, for economic and technical reasons), then there will be no privacy. As the middleman of every payment, the hub will know instantly who is paying (or trying to pay) who.

But let's pretend that the LN can be decentralized, with channels distributed among thousands of independent hubs and millions of users.

One "interesting feature" of the LN is that channels and nodes must be long-lived entities, that will be used for dozens or thousands of payments; and each channel connects two fixed nodes. In contrast, a raw bitcoin user can create a new address for each transaction; and a spook can guess that two addresses belong to the same person only if they are both used as inputs of the same transaction -- at which point that information becomes largely useless.

Moreover, while a bitcoin address is just an immaterial pattern of bits, with nothing that ties it to the "owner", an LN node is a computer, that must be online in order to send or receive payments, and must be reachable by other nodes through a specific IP or onion address. Therefore, it will be much easier for a spook to determine the physical location and physical identity of the owner of a given node. In fact, large hubs will have to collect that information in order to comply with KYC/AML laws.

Also, when Alice sends a payment to Bob on-chain, Bob can check that the payment was sent at any later time, without having to contact any specific server. If she uses the LN, on the other hand, Bob must be online and interact with her (or with the middleman nodes) in order to receive the payment. Thus it will be much easier for a spook to detect that Alice paid Bob -- by timing analysis of internet accesses, if nothing else."

[Anonymous No.24027711]

>>24027644
>>24027575

"If the LN becomes centralized into one big hub and everybody connected to it by one channel (which so far seems inevitable, for economic and technical reasons), then there will be no privacy. As the middleman of every payment, the hub will know instantly who is paying (or trying to pay) who.

But let's pretend that the LN can be decentralized, with channels distributed among thousands of independent hubs and millions of users.

One "interesting feature" of the LN is that channels and nodes must be long-lived entities, that will be used for dozens or thousands of payments; and each channel connects two fixed nodes. In contrast, a raw bitcoin user can create a new address for each transaction; and a spook can guess that two addresses belong to the same person only if they are both used as inputs of the same transaction -- at which point that information becomes largely useless.

Moreover, while a bitcoin address is just an immaterial pattern of bits, with nothing that ties it to the "owner", an LN node is a computer, that must be online in order to send or receive payments, and must be reachable by other nodes through a specific IP or onion address. Therefore, it will be much easier for a spook to determine the physical location and physical identity of the owner of a given node. In fact, large hubs will have to collect that information in order to comply with KYC/AML laws.

Also, when Alice sends a payment to Bob on-chain, Bob can check that the payment was sent at any later time, without having to contact any specific server. If she uses the LN, on the other hand, Bob must be online and interact with her (or with the middleman nodes) in order to receive the payment. Thus it will be much easier for a spook to detect that Alice paid Bob -- by timing analysis of internet accesses, if nothing else."

(2/2)

[Anonymous No.24027761]

>>24026139
Silver*

[Anonymous No.24027763]

>>24025892
So are all stable coins scams or is this just an issue with tether?

[Anonymous No.24027801]

>>24027761

When I say gold, I include silver. It's a convenient metonymy. Peter Schiff always says "gold" and "gold stocks" as well but implicitly he includes silver and silver miners. As a matter of fact, almost 100% of my PMs and mining stocks are silver.

[Anonymous No.24027858]

>>24027445
This is one of the main failures of people that pick Bitcoin. They always make the false assumption that if the Bitcoin network goes down, the whole world is going to end and gold will be just as worthless. It's false.

[Anonymous No.24027964]

>>24026760
Regarding your points addressed here>>24025868

>Privacy
The privacy talking point is very old at this point. Fairly, it was a major talking point in the beginning, but it's not a selling point anymore. If you do want complete privacy simply accumulate your Bitcoin at ATMs, or use Monero. Though this may sound like a cheap point, it's a true one: pragmatically, no one needs privacy with their currency except for the bad guys. Bitcoin as a store of value has no need to be private. Gold isn't any better in this sense. If the government really wanted to crack down on gold owners vs Bitcoin owners, as long as you held the private keys it would be harder to confiscate Bitcoin. I'm not sure who's "transacting gold physically", especially in some sort of widespread global sense, but that sounds extremely archaic. I don't care about this argument though, it truly doesn't matter, so if you want to take this as a point for gold you can have it.

>You lose your life-savings after
If you're getting tortured, you have bigger problems. They could also threaten your family and make you go pick up the gold from the vault (many don't have it in a vault). This is a 1 in a million scenario, or maybe less. Memory loss and dementia typically don't occur overnight. Thoughtless mistakes - yes, you have to be careful, as it stands there isn't a great swarth of people having this issue so far, much was lost initially before it had such a value. Fire is the same concept. Burglarizing a house and finding a hardware wallet I'm guessing is statistically pretty low, and Trezor is the only hardware I've heard that can be broken with specialized hardware. A seed phrase isn't going to be found by a burglar. Research burglary and what they steal. Complete non-issue. If hardware fails (I don't hear of this happening), hardware wallets are backed up by seed phrases, you'd need the wallet and the seed phrase to be destroyed.

1/2

[Anonymous No.24028196]

>>24027575
>almost 2021
>the retard STILL thinks lightning will work
>j-just a few more kinks to work on the ux side then people will surely join
>thinks lightning is an actual solution to the fee problem
>doesn’t know about the gaping mass exit security hole
See you in 2025 when you’re still waiting.

[Anonymous No.24028258]

>>24027964
2/2

TLDR; the only likely way your Bitcoin can be lost is in the event that you have a hardware wallet and a completely destructive fire. In which case both the seed and the wallet are destroyed. I actually hold 2/3 on a wallet and 1/3 via third party. We've come a long way from MtGox. This is going to take decades though for people to eventually become comfortable with custodians, it's just a matter of time. Bitcoin is insurable now as well.

>1) BTC will collapse once the price sinks under the cost of production for the miners.

The Bitcoin code constantly regulates itself in terms of mining difficulty. And if the price of Bitcoin drops to low, less miners are incentivized to mine. This system auto-balances itself leading to a perfect balance. Even if the price crashes to the ground, we'll go back to GPU mining from home. So, not an issue in any regard.

>2) Most BTC miners are in China.

China China China. The miners are basically slaves to Bitcoin, it doesn't matter where they are located. If they 51% attack, they burn their revenue stream. They essentially burn their own baby and make the entire operation kaput. Not only that, a 51% attack would be publicly visible and obvious to everyone. Here's what would happen; Bitcoin Core would fork the chain. There would be two Bitcoin's: the Bitcoin before the attack and after the attack. The supposed Chinese 51% attackers would still be mining their compramised Bitcoin but the price would drop to zero. No exchange is going to recognize or sell a 51% attacked Bitcoin. Life would go on as usual for the pre-attacked Bitcoin as the true Bitcoin. The miners all know this which is why it's never happened and never will. They'd lose everything.

>3) BTC is propped up by the fiat ponzi scheme of tether.
I'm not into this theory yet. Doesn't really matter what Tether is doing. Stablecoins are being regulated as are exchanges as cryptocurrency is being legitimized.

2/3

[Anonymous No.24028349]

>>24025868
3/3

>BTC has no intrinsic value.
This is a boring one. Obviously it has intrinsic value. If you understand how fiat works, you understand just how important Bitcoin is and that's reflected in the price. Just because you can't hold it in the palm of your hand doesn't mean it doesn't have intrinsic value, obviously.

>BTC is over-complicated.
Getting easier every day. We've come a long way from paper wallets. ETF's are coming next year. Custodians are becoming more and more secure and at this point simply need time to establish themselves as safe. A child can figure out a hardware wallet.

Phew, that was a lot to cover.

[Anonymous No.24028511]

My 75 year old boomer stepdad just texted me asking how to buy BTC.

[Anonymous No.24028571]

My dead great grandfather just communicated though a seance that he wishes he had bought BTC instead of landing on the beaches at Normandy.

[Anonymous No.24028618]

This thread shows clearly that most gold bugs have absolutely no idea how any of this works. I’m not going to write a WoT because I don’t care if you hold BTC and I have both myself so no need for shilling. Please read more than a NYT summary before arguing holy shit.

[Anonymous No.24028657]

>>24025868
> instantly transmittable
AHAHAHA, right.

>ONLY 4 HOURS TO TRANSFER
>COSTS ONLY $100
>SEE HOW CHEAP AND FAST IT IS
>FUTURE OF MONEY
>PLZ BUY MY BAGS AT $100,000
>PLZ

[Anonymous No.24028723]

>>24025868
> whether by means of gold-backed cryptos like Kinesis, or gold-backed currencies in the banking system.

Stopped reading there. You're an absolute moron.

[Anonymous No.24029106]

Why not both. There are multiple ways a reset plays out. Cover your bases.

[Anonymous No.24029189]

>>24029106

If you buy BTC, you're lending your support to an immoral ponzi scheme. It's an unethical, even evil investment, and completely pointless to gamble on when the mining stocks already offer vastly leveraged returns in a highly inflationary environment. (The average silver junior mining stock went up 150 times when silver doubled.)

[Anonymous No.24029225]

>>24029189
>immoral
>unethical
>evil
Take your shitty morals out of the equation and try to convince me again

[Anonymous No.24029226]

>>24026139
How is it a red herring when you brought up the concept of intrinsic value? Retard.

[Anonymous No.24029236]

>>24025823
It does not appear to be the case. Earlier when the fees were lower and it was faster but now it's insane to move bitcoin around. How can it be a currency with no current?

[Anonymous No.24029302]

>>24029189
I also own giant medical corporation stocks. They are pretty evil.

[Anonymous No.24029341]

>>24025868
Oh no. No no no. You fucked up

[Anonymous No.24029349]

>>24027964

>Bitcoin ... has no need to be private.
>so if you want to take this as a point for gold you can have it.

Thank you for conceding this then; the vast majority of BTC supporters refuse to do so.

The two most important components of BTC's alleged use-case as a "store of value" were originally 1) Its superiority as a currency, 2) Its alleged privacy. When you take those away, it's hard to see what value remains to store. It has no intrinsic value; take away its monetary value and it doesn't have even a shade of credibility.

>If you're getting tortured, you have bigger problems. They could also threaten your family and make you go pick up the gold from the vault (many don't have it in a vault).

If you store your gold offshore, in Switzerland or Singapore, that obviously isn't going to happen. And most banks have daily withdrawal limits, so that somebody would have to torture you over weeks in order to get your life savings--too great a risk. Whereas somebody needs only ten minutes to get your keys out of you.

People getting tortured for crypto has already happened on numerous occasions, and would become an every-day occurrence if cryptocurrency became the new system of money.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/bitcoin-robbery-torture-cryptocurrency-netherlands-a8807986.html

"Police in the Netherlands are investigating the brutal torture of a bitcoin trader, whose home was raided by criminals looking for cryptocurrency.

Three robbers disguised as police entered the victim's home in Drenthe and attacked him with a drill in front of his four-year-old daughter, Dutch publication De Telegraaf reported.

It is not the first time criminals have targeted cryptocurrency investors and traders, with the earliest reported instance taking place in 2015.

In February of that year, New York City firefighter Dwayne Richards was stabbed in Willamsburg, Brooklyn, by muggers who demanded he transferred bitcoin to their digital wallets."

[Thrash !!fjAagv5Ky4o No.24029398]

>>24025803
Gold supply increases 2% yearly, is hard to transport, you can’t actually buy anything with it, only use is a preserved of wealth and it’s not even good at that since it’s supply increases every year.
There will never be more than the fixed supply of Bitcoin. Once it’s all been mined that’s it, no more.

[Anonymous No.24029594]

>>24028349
>>24029349

>This is a boring one. Obviously it has intrinsic value. If you understand how fiat works, you understand just how important Bitcoin is and that's reflected in the price. Just because you can't hold it in the palm of your hand doesn't mean it doesn't have intrinsic value, obviously.

You haven't explained how Bitcoin does have intrinsic value. At best it might be argued that its intrinsic value consists in its monetary value. But as it can't be used as a currency, and offers far less privacy than gold, I fail to see what that monetary value is. Certainly it has no intrinsically valuable properties to store, which would make its monetary value rather pointless even if it did have it. Are you able to explain to me why Russia and China, after dumping the dollar, will continue to toil away to produce goods and commodities, but demand Bitcoin in exchange for the fruits of their labour? They will demand what really does have intrinsic value--gold. Hence why they are front-running the new monetary system, and hoarding gold as we speak. Russia has already accumulated sufficient reserves to issue a gold-backed ruble. (See picture.)

>Getting easier every day. We've come a long way from paper wallets. ETF's are coming next year. Custodians are becoming more and more secure and at this point simply need time to establish themselves as safe

If you need custodians and ETFs to store Bitcoin, you have defeated its original alleged use-case. "Private" "unconfiscatable" "instantly transmittable." This is what we used to be told. What is left at this point which makes Bitcoin in the least bit desirable, other than the thrill of gambling on the fiat number continuing to go up?

[Anonymous No.24029600]

>>24029189

Satoshi hid a message in the genesis block, it read:

>"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks."

Taxation isn't theft, taxation goes to pay for public goods. Inflation is theft. Untold wealth was lost and countless lives were destroyed forever due to the boom and bust cycles that Keynesian policies create, which lead to the insanity of the fractional reserve system. You're probably too young to understand this, but the aftermath of the great recession was a time of despair. All across the globe people had their retirements completely washed away, money that they saved every day over their entire lives was vaporized overnight. Try to have some perspective.

Bitcoin is the natural counterweight that emerges out of this evil and as long as this evil exists it will organically become stronger.

[Anonymous No.24029646]

>>24029349
>Be poor methheads from somalia
>Break into the average biz poster's house
>Hold him at knife point, threaten to skin him alive
>He finally caves and opens his account
>It's all alts
>Feel bad for him
>Give him 0.1 BTC and leave

[Anonymous No.24029688]

>>24028349
I wonder why he didnt get back to you kek

[Anonymous No.24029759]

It comes down to the functions of money.

Divisability, durability, portability, uniformity, acceptability and limited supply.

For centuries gold was the best thing we had at fulfilling these functions but BTC came along and is better in every way.

Additionally Bitcoin is easier to verify authenticity which solves the problem of forgeries. You never have to wonder if you are buying fake Bitcoin.

[Anonymous No.24029773]

>>24029600

Satoshi is Adam Back, the head of Blockstream. I don't see how anybody can sit down to consider BarelySociable's evidence with a candid mind and not come to that conclusion also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfcvX0P1b5g

Bitcoin was invented by the banks to suppress the price of gold and silver by causing dissension in the anti-fiat community, and diverting the flow of anti-fiat capital. It also served to normalize CBDCs (central-bank digital currencies), which made their début shortly after that of Bitcoin.

Crypto advocates like you parrot Austrian economics arguments which people like Peter Schiff and Alasdair Macleod have been making for years. It is all taken from them verbatim. Only then the rug-pull comes in, and Bitcoin is subverted for true money (gold). Bitcoin is fiat (money created out of nothing), and it will be "vaporized overnight" along with the U. S. dollar., which is all that props it up. If you really care about people, advocate for sound money instead. That's how you will save them from destruction.

[Anonymous No.24029863]

>>24029189
Rofl at the implication of the "moral" stance of mining companies, around 15000 miners die each year due to injury or health affects caused by mining.

[Anonymous No.24029931]

>>24025803
You can't just copy Bitcoin. Saying Bitcoin has no value because you can copy it is like saying Gold has no value because you can just make Fool's Gold

[Anonymous No.24029952]

>>24029773
>Only then the rug-pull comes in, and Bitcoin is subverted for true money (gold).
Why and how will the rug pull come?

[Anonymous No.24029955]

>>24025868
>3 day transaction times
>Therefore useless as a currency
Want to know how I can tell you've never moved fiat money across borders or written a cheque?

[Anonymous No.24029973]

>>24025826
Silver and BTC.

[Anonymous No.24030107]

>>24029349
>1) currency
YES
>2) privacy.
Don't care. It doesn't need to be a programmable, borderless, trustless, sleepless store of value AND private. It's better than gold in every conceivable way (that matters) already and in ways we don't yet realize because we haven't programmed them in yet. I hate arguing with goldbugs because we are cousins and both agree on the problem but take a different path towards the solution. We are on the same side fighting the same war. Also, I don't want to be cute, but in terms of gold vs bitcoin when it comes to financial upside, it's not even remotely similar.

Can't fully concede the point. I can go to any Bitcoin ATM around the world and pay cash easily. Can you pay cash for gold?

>Intrinsic
Digital non tangible things have value but what you're saying is that if the system breaks it will no longer have value. Couldn't agree more. I'm very comfortable with how Bitcoin works. Here's a quote I like:

>Bitcoin is the first example of a new form of life. It lives and breathes on the internet. It lives because it can pay people to keep it alive. It lives because it performs a useful service that people will pay it to perform. It lives because anyone, anywhere, can run a copy of its code. It lives because all the running copies are constantly talking to each other. It lives because if any one copy is corrupted it is discarded, quickly and without any fuss or muss. It lives because it is radically transparent: anyone can see its code and see exactly what it does.

>If you store your gold offshore
This point can be quickly nullified - you can keep your keys in a safety deposit box as well, and many big fish do. Not only that but Bitcoin has multisig, which means you can create withdrawal rules (ex: 2 out of three key holders need to agree for withdrawal). The fact that Bitcion is so maneuverable as well, while large gold transactions need massive insurance and security protections. The anecdote you raised applies to gold.

[Anonymous No.24030333]

>>24029594
Without getting unnecessarily philosophical beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Gold would be my #2. I like Bitcoin for so many reasons which is why I assign it value. Cryptographic and digital currencies existed long before Bitcoin. The Proof of Work system is what made Bitcoin work. Bitcoin didn't have an enigmatic founder, a marketing campaign or institutional backing. It grew organically because it worked. It doesn't care what you think about it. The code is what gives it intrinsic value. Beautiful perfect code. Everything is digitizing more, not less. We are on the digital parabola, everything becomes more and more digital exponentially. I admire gold sincerely, for thousands of years it kept systems in check and built civilization. But Bitcoin is the future. It's not a monetarily valuable. While gold has been used as a store of value, Bitcoin is a store of value if we could design a store of value.

>original alleged use-case. "Private" "unconfiscatable"
This is really important and it's almost like I'm arguing with myself from a year ago. Bitcoin doesn't need to be private. It is unconfiscatable if you wish it to be, and is no less unconfiscatable than gold, especially if you use it properly.

[Anonymous No.24030416]

>>24025803
i simply have both. Michael Saylor really sold me on bitcoin, like I "believe" in it now. I used to be a die-hard schiff fag, but i realized he will NEVER recognize bitcoins legitimacy because he sells gold for a living and it would burn his pockets to do so

[Anonymous No.24030637]

>>24029952

The rug pull for BTC will come either when the tether scam is exposed, or fiat collapses and the dollar gets dumped. Either event will cause Bitcoin to go instantaneously to zero.

>>24030107

Your only arguments for BTC, then, are that it is "borderless and trustless." It's not a currency, doesn't offer privacy, doesn't store any intrinsic value--those two things are all you can say for it. Well, I don't think that a digital token with no intrinsic properties, besides being borderless and trustless, and which has all the flaws which I mentioned in my previous post, >>24025868 is going to be particularly appealing to Russia and China after they dump the dollar. I don't think that they'll be toiling away to get things out of the ground and manufacture them in exchange for that.

>Bitcoin didn't have an enigmatic founder, a marketing campaign or institutional backing. It grew organically because it worked.

BTC didn't grow naturally. It was made by Adam Back, the head of Blockstream. >>24029773 I consider BarelySociable to have proven this for anybody with a candid mind. It was manufactured by the central banks to take pressure off the COMEX, divide the anti-fiat community, and prepare us for CBDCs.

>We are on the same side fighting the same war.

I don't believe so. Every person whom you lead into the Bitcoin ponzi scheme is both supporting that ponzi scheme, and on the road to losing literally all his money. I'm not saying that you're a bad person, because you may simply be a good person who is innocently mistaken, but I will affirm that advocates for sound money and Bitcoin bugs are not on the same side. The fiat ponzi scheme would have ended long ago, and the COMEX would already have defaulted, if it had not been for Bitcoin.

[Anonymous No.24030704]

>>24030637
im having a lot of trouble the gov't created bitcoin to split the COMEX

[Anonymous No.24030721]

>>24030333

If Bitcoin was the wonderful thing which you believe it to be, there never would have been the block-size debate. There never would have been the censorship campaign on /r/btc. Mike Hearn and Gavin Andresen never would have left the profit in disgust, or been treated so horribly. Everything about Bitcoin and the history of Bitcoin leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Anonymous No.24030747]

>>24030333

If Bitcoin was the wonderful thing which you believe it to be, there never would have been the block-size debate. There never would have been the censorship campaign on /r/bitcoin, leading to the creation of /r/btc. Mike Hearn and Gavin Andresen never would have left the project in disgust, nor been treated so horribly by the other developers. Everything about Bitcoin and the history of Bitcoin leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

https://blog.plan99.net/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7?gi=63d0d0ef554a

[Anonymous No.24030781]

>>24025803
10% btc, 90% gold if you only want store of fvalue inflation hedge
10% btc leveraged long, 90% btc cold stored if you want max gains

[Anonymous No.24031017]

>>24030637
Your only arguments for BTC, then, are that it is "borderless and trustless."

Haha. Well, you seem to be not quite giving credit where credit is due. Trustlessness in currency is actually a really hard problem to solve. There is only one system that has ever achieved it - Bitcoin. If it had no other properties besides this it would still be immensely valuable because of this singular and revolutionary aspect. Borderless is fairly important when dealing with an asset, and I mentioned sleepless as well. As Saylor put it, you can't program your gold to get out of bed while you're sleeping, and go out and do a billion things before you wake up.

>It's not a currency
This is almost semantic, what you're saying isn't intrinsically accurate, but it is practically true. Solutions like PayPal make it technically viable but not in a fair sense as it's not via the blockchain. Regardless, the metrics have overwhelmingly shown that people don't like transacting with it though, they like hodling it.

>doesn't offer privacy
Be careful because you keep making blanket statements. It can be used in a completely private fashion if you wish it. I believe it is more private than gold because you can use cash to pay for it and never give KYC. It's much easier to transact as well in this sense. But again, forest for the trees on this point.

>Russian and China
We are going off of the Bretton Woods system. The US doesn't export anything. We don't need the Bretton Woods system, we've been financing global trade for 80 years at the expense of massive military costs. The US doesn't care about Russian and China (they are pissant), the US has the best geography, demography and resources to carry on for all of the foreseeable future. Mexico is our new China in terms of cheap labor, these deals have already been established. Also, CBDC's are coming which will obviously attract attention to Bitcoin.

>It was made by Adam Back
I love your theory on this, and all the theories I hear.

[Anonymous No.24031025]

>>24025868
When the Bitcoin bubble bursts, will it collapse the other crypto’s with it?

[Anonymous No.24031190]

>>24030637
>if it had not been for Bitcoin.

Not sure what you're implying here. Bitcoins market cap is 300B. That's nothing in terms of global finance. You're possibly implying that Bitcoin will steal the limelight and attract all the attention from gold and usurp it eventually. I think you meant Pyramid scheme. Every asset conceivable could be considered a pyramid scheme because of the way bids and asks work and how value works. A ponzi scheme promises returns and pays out returns from new investors to old.

Doesn't change the fact that even if it was designed by the CIA or whoever you could imagine, the code is public. You can see exactly what it does. It's not a cryptocurrency project like so many others, it's a finished product. There is no rug pull. The system works independently as it's decentralized by its very nature. It can't be controlled by design! That's what makes it so special!

[Anonymous No.24031206]

Crypto is as secure and incorruptible of a currency medium as you can get. Its only barrier to adoption is the general public's technical literacy and faith in technology.

[Anonymous No.24031239]

>>24031017

>As Saylor put it, you can't program your gold to get out of bed while you're sleeping, and go out and do a billion things before you wake up.

If people desire the attributes of Bitcoin which are unique to the Blockchain, then they can go to a gold-backed crypto like Kinesis. If Bitcoin excites you for its Blockchain attributes, then I believe that Kinesis is just as deserving of your attention.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q9aYYluRA0&ab_channel=KinesisMoney

"Kinesis cryptocurrencies eliminate this need for trust, essentially creating a trust-less system, which is what Bitcoin and alternatives were supposed to be. A user does not have to trust in the value of the Kinesis tokens, as each token is verifiably backed by gold and silver. As long as these precious metals hold their value, Kinesis tokens will hold their value. The arrival of stablecoin options in crypto is long overdue. Stablecoins like the Kinesis currencies will allow crypto to be adopted by users and merchants on a grand scale, and finally make crypto an everyday means of payment and exchange like it was intended to."

https://kinesis.money/blog/merging-gold-and-blockchain/

>It was made by Adam Back
>I love your theory on this, and all the theories I hear.

It isn't my theory. It was conceived by BarelySociable, and he arranges an ingenious amount of evidence to show it, an amount which I consider to be conclusive. I implore you to watch the video and consider what he has to say.

Bitcoin ATMs generally require a login, an app, and a telephone number. Same sort of thing is true of localbitcoins--needs a name and an IP address. When transacting in gold, all you have to do is pass a coin to somebody to achieve complete privacy.

(1/2)

[Anonymous No.24031248]

>>24025826
Splendid choice

[Anonymous No.24031315]

>>24031190

>We are going off of the Bretton Woods system. The US doesn't export anything.

Precisely. This is exactly why the dollar is going to die. The U. S. doesn't have the manufacturing capability to fight a war with China and Russia, in order to impose dollar hegemony on them. Those countries can't be swept aside like Saddam with his oil for euros, or Gaddafi with his gold dinar for Africa. Russia and China are the ones who make everything which we actually need and want. They have no incentive to keep giving away their goods and commodities in exchange for worthless paper. Hence they are going to dump the dollar. They have been hoarding gold for ten years in preparation for this, and now have enough of it to back their currencies with. (See >>24029594.) Real negative yields on U. S. treasuries are going to cause the dollar to keep bleeding until China and Russia finally deliver the finishing blow. The U. S. cannot raise interest-rates now without crashing the whole system, so the debt-trap in which it finds itself is inescapable.

>>24031025

I gave my thoughts on alt-coins here: >>24027325

[Anonymous No.24031326]

>>24030747

I respect your opinion. To think that such an idea and revolution like Bitcion could come on the scene without having immense amounts of controversy and heated debates etc. is not reasonable.

It NEEDS debate. It NEEDS controversy. It needs people to constantly poke holes at it and attack it. It needs (you), smart people with legitimate arguments that constantly berate at it perpetually. Forever. It needs to constantly be attacked because that's what gives it strength. If it collapses under the weight of arguments or flaws, it will die. But it gets stronger every day. It's truly impressive that hackers haven't ever found away inside Bitcoin, but don't think it's not CONSTANTLY being attacked. Such a hack would be the greatest in all history.

[Anonymous No.24031353]

>>24031315
based I have 6oz of gold and now im tempted to buy more

[Anonymous No.24031359]

>>24031190
>>24031239

>We are going off of the Bretton Woods system. The US doesn't export anything.

Precisely. This is exactly why the dollar is going to die. The U. S. no longer has the manufacturing capability to fight a war with China and Russia, in order to impose dollar hegemony on them. Those countries can't be swept aside like Saddam with his oil for euros, or Gaddafi with his gold dinar for Africa. Russia and China are the ones who make everything which we actually need and want. They have no incentive to keep giving away their goods and commodities in exchange for worthless paper. Hence they are going to dump the dollar. They have been hoarding gold for ten years in preparation for this, and now have enough of it to back their currencies with. (See >>24029594.) Real negative yields on U. S. treasuries are going to cause the dollar to keep bleeding until China and Russia finally deliver the finishing blow. The U. S. cannot raise interest-rates now without crashing the whole system, so the debt-trap in which it finds itself is inescapable.

>>24031025

I gave my thoughts on alt-coins here: >>24027325

(2/2)

[Anonymous No.24031436]

>>24030637
>The rug pull for BTC will come either when the tether scam is exposed, or fiat collapses and the dollar gets dumped. Either event will cause Bitcoin to go instantaneously to zero.
If Bitcoin is a scam and fiat will inevitably collapse, what do you use as a SoV and investment?

[Anonymous No.24031556]

>>24031190

>Not sure what you're implying here. Bitcoins market cap is 300B. That's nothing in terms of global finance. You're possibly implying that Bitcoin will steal the limelight and attract all the attention from gold and usurp it eventually.

Before Bitcoin, it was universally agreed, among the anti-fiat community, that silver was the best investment, and what would ultimately kill the bankers. (By the bye, this remains true today.) Gold has a 10 trillion market cap, but that of silver is minuscule. Gold is preserved forever, but silver is almost all consumed in industry, and nobody stockpiles it. The BTC market cap could buy more than six years' worth of the annual investable supply of silver. Silver is so suppressed that it would have to go $950 U. S. dollars today, in order to achieve its 1980 ATH in inflation-adjusted terms. Its historic ratio with gold was 1:14, and at times it was as low as 1:3 or even 1:1; in March the ratio was as high as 1:125. If we had kept buying silver as a unified force, from 2011 onward, the COMEX would have already defaulted, and the fiat ponzi scheme would have been exposed.

Interest in cryptos has also detracted energy and enthusiasm from PMs.

>Doesn't change the fact that even if it was designed by the CIA or whoever you could imagine, the code is public. You can see exactly what it does. ... The system works independently as it's decentralized by its very nature. It can't be controlled by design! That's what makes it so special!

Precisely, and the code of BTC is what I take issue with. 1 mb block size = it can't be used as a currency, and forces you to go through Adam Back and Blockstream's second-layer solutions. But even raising the block size doesn't solve the problem, because then BTC becomes centralized, and loses its use case. Besides the fact that even BSV, which has colossal block sizes, couldn't account for more than a fraction of world commerce. Crypto simply can't function as money.

[Alex Braun No.24031597]

Is DMX token worth trying?

Join in a referral program on Probit for DYMMAX (dymmax.com), international platform, they communicate with blockchain platforms and ecosystem of China, USA and etc.

[Anonymous No.24031603]

>>24031326

Just wanted to say in reply to this that I respect your opinion also, and I'm sorry if any of my posts have come across as harsh. You haven't put a foot wrong so far as civility is concerned.

[Anonymous No.24031633]

>>24031359
>Russia and China are the ones who make everything which we actually need and want.

Sorry, I meant to say we don't import or export anything. There is nothing from China or Russia that we need. Fracking has made our oil interests completely moot. We are trying to get the price of oil back up! Ha! Who'd have thought. The US is the least involved country from an import/export position. China needs us, we don't need China. Russia is a non-issue economically. Both of these economies are so small compared to the US it's not worthwhile to discuss them, especially with the new deals with Mexico, and even without them we'd be fine. We are incredibly fortunate to live in a country that can afford us everything without ever needing to venture out of it. Other countries are not so lucky. China is expecting to see a massive "population correction" in the northern parts. You'll see many alliances and frictions happening in the next few years as the rest of the world reshuffles after the US leaves this Bretton Woods system more and more everyday. The US couldn't care less.

CBDC's are the advent of behavioral economics. For example the central bank will be able to punish a boomer saver with worse interest rates than a Millenial trying to save up for a house. They can control the economy in a way that they haven't been able to before. I'd argue this is bullish for Bitcion, which will become the de facto store of value digital asset in this new world of digital currencies.

[Anonymous No.24031650]

>>24031436

>If Bitcoin is a scam and fiat will inevitably collapse, what do you use as a SoV and investment?

1) Physical gold and physical silver which you hold in your own hand.

2) Physical gold and physical silver which you keep in a private vault, e.g. via GoldMoney, BullionVault, or Kinesis. (Do NOT buy ETFs like GLD and SLV, which merely give you a claim, not on bullion, but on the banks which allegedly hold it.)

3) Mining stocks, of which the indices are: GDX and GDXJ for gold companies; SIL and SILJ for silver companies.

4) Commodities in general, and commodity stocks.

5) Farmland.

[Anonymous No.24031710]

Please, share your opinion about this review: y2ube MpGuS4KKYeU

run into baseprotocol.org, seems legit and useful, Uniswap cooperation, Liquidity pools, Cascade platform with yield opportunities but still difficult to make a choice, invest in it or wait for release

[Anonymous No.24031727]

>>24026981
Are you so fucking retarded that you think that every single fucking gold producer is defrauding its shareholders? How the fuck do you think the fucking ceos make money dumbass? Stock options. It's in their interest to inflate the amount of gold they sell not conceal it you fucking retard. Or are you so schizo that you think that every single accounting firm in the world is on on some conspiracy to smuggle unrefined gold into the pockets of ceos and NO ONE has figured this out but you.
The amount of money crypto has made has prevented everyone on this fucking board from having to learn accounting.

[Anonymous No.24031739]

>>24025868
>1) BTC will collapse once the price sinks under the cost of production for the miners.
this meme needs to die

[Anonymous No.24031741]

>>24031633

The U. S. has an enormous trade deficit. A priori, that means that it needs the rest of the world to function. If you have a trade deficit, you aren't self-sufficient. The U. S. can only live its lavish lifestyle because it has a money-printing machine to do it with, and the rest of the world is agreeing to use the dollar as a reserve-currency--for now. But the arrangement only benefits the U. S. at the expense of the rest of the world. A dumping of the dollar, and reinstating of gold would cause the greatest wealth transfer in human history from West to East, and Russia and China have every incentive to go ahead with it. Nor do private investors have any reason to buy U. S. bonds any more, now that real yields are negative, and can only get worse from here onward (because interest-rates can never go up again without crashing the system).

[Anonymous No.24031761]

>>24027192
>This means , for bitcoin, that as price increases, more miners come online
No it doesn't because after 21 million they only make tx fees

[Anonymous No.24031851]

>>24031633
The price of oil is artificially high because of opec and the petro dollar. The US fracking industry is actually being indirectly subsidized by opec and by their retarded commitment to not break their dollar pegs. The natural oil price would probably be like 25-35 dollars without the cartels.

[Anonymous No.24031939]

>>24025823
Its not seen as a currency. Its a store of value. Just like you won't use gold to transact, but you could if you really wanted to at certain places. Butcoin is the same

[Anonymous No.24031983]

>>24031556
This is a lot of "what if's". Paradigm shifts take time. There's no reason key players can't still invest in silver. Bitcoin has the same market cap as Home Depot last I checked. Ultimately it's not a very convincing argument, and Bitcoin, Silver and Gold all have the same philosophy and are all fighting the same war even if you don't like how Bitcoin fights it.

What will actually lead to a collapse of fiat would be a continuous instances of worsening boom and bust cycles. We were due for one anyways regardless of Covid. Covid just fast tracked it. Populism takes hold in policies and we move away from the Keynesian systems. Or we keep pushing these policies until a catastrophic event happens and we are forced to remove them.

>1 mb block size = it can't be used as a currency
Asset allocators don't keep their money in cash. No one says we are going to invest in cash. Currency has always inflated and so currency should only be used as a temporary means of exchange. That's why the wealth gap exists. The only thing that Bitcoin does in this regard is give people another opt-out option. If we remove Keynesian policies completely, we win regardless, you can back fiat with gold, or even Bitcoin. But as long as inflationary policies exist, it's prudent to hold either or both.

[Anonymous No.24032105]

>>24031983

There won't be another boom and bust cycle. The Fed is going to keep printing money in order to prop this system up until the final bust, the bust to end all busts. Then the dollar gets dumped and America is completely finished. I don't believe that Peter Schiff is exaggerating when he says that elderly people will be starving to death as a consequence. The third- and second-world workers who slave to produce goods for American fiat will become just as rich as Americans become poor. It isn't even guaranteed that America will realize the error of its ways, and adopt Austrian economics. The ignorant masses may simply blame the collapse on "capitalism," even though the cause was central-bank money-printing and socialism, and may go even further left towards outright communism. Argentina certainly hasn't learned any lessons. The best hope for America at this point is for the liberty-minded and Austrian Americans to balkanize and separate from the rest of the country.

[Anonymous No.24032269]

>>24031741
The dollar isn't the reserve currency for any magical reason. It's because every other currency is dogshit in comparison. The Euro tried to get off, failed. The pound failed. Sorry but there aren't enough Swiss francs out there. Nothing else can come remotely close to replacing it. I When China opened its currency borders, something like a hundred billion escaped before they rushed to close it again. t's not great, but it's by far the best.

As you say, new alliances will be established within the rest of the world, but what you're under-appreciating is that the US doesn't care, we were leaving it anyway. It's been happening slowly since it first began. We initially established the system to combat the Russian communist threat. That threat is no longer meaningful. We've been protecting free trade across the globe at our own expense. We don't need China or anyone else. They need us DESPERATELY. We are self sufficient and therefore the running trade deficit doesn't matter. We are the most economically successful country of all time. In other words, we're good for it. Life in this post-covid world will see the US suffer from it the LEAST. That's the key takeaway. Anyways I have to go, keep doing what you're doing. Check out Peter Zeihan for more on the geoplotics and buy a little Bitcoin. TTYL

[Anonymous No.24032536]

>>24032269

>The dollar isn't the reserve currency for any magical reason. It's because every other currency is dogshit in comparison

The dollar is the reserve currency only because of a unique and anomalous set of historical circumstances. It was considered to be "as good as gold" until Nixon pulled the rug out in 1971. As a consequence, it was enormously devalued by the rest of the world--gold went up 25x in the 70s and 80s PM bull market. American living standards went down as a consequence as well: both a man and a woman suddenly had to work in order to sustain a household, whereas sustaining a household used to require only a man on a working man's wage.

China and Russia have absolutely no use for the U. S. The U. S. has an enormous trade deficit with China. In other words, China is making what America needs, not the other way about. If the U. S. dollar loses its value, then it has nothing to fall back on--no way to get goods from China any more, and hence no way to get goods at all. America simply collapses. Only the threat of military force has propped up the dollar until now, hence why Saddam and Gaddafi were attacked, who posed a threat to it; but America's manufacturing base is now too weak to contend with China and Russia in a war. They will dump the dollar, and there will be nothing that America can do about it.

[Anonymous No.24032758]

>>24025803
>I just cant wrap my head around bitcoin. its not TANGIBLE and physical
That is precisely its advantage. Just like humanity has gone digital in pretty much any other aspect because it's way more convenient, having digital money is way more convenient than storing and transporting a physical object.
>and any number of carbon copies can be made.
No it can't. Not sure if you mean double-spending, in which case the whole innovation of bitcoin is that it prevents that. Or that people can copy the chain, in which case that is futile because no one would use the new chain, just like how one would care if I painted a rock yellow and called it Gold 2.0.
>what happens when governments ban fiat on ramping? its not like gold where you can truly have privacy and transact offline.
Yes it is, the likelyhood of it being banned is miniscule, and even if it did it's super easy to bypass such laws because of its borderless nature. They'd have to shut down the internet and shut down international money transfers to stop it.

[Anonymous No.24032887]

>>24032758

>That is precisely its advantage. Just like humanity has gone digital in pretty much any other aspect because it's way more convenient, having digital money is way more convenient than storing and transporting a physical object.

Kinesis is the true digital money on the Blockchain if digital money is what excites you. >>24031239 Besides the fact that gold-backed currencies, used in the modern banking system, would be infinitely more efficient than any cryptocurrency for the purpose of making transactions, including BSV. BTC can't be used as a currency by more than 0.1% of people even on the LN.

>>24032758

>No it can't. Not sure if you mean double-spending, in which case the whole innovation of bitcoin is that it prevents that.

By "carbon copies" he means that there are forks and alt-coins, which run into the thousands. Whereas you can't make a fork or an alt-coin of gold, because it has immutably valuable properties. A gold-backed crypto is the only crypto which really can't be carbon-copied; the rest are as worthless as the air.

[Anonymous No.24033392]

VALUE is not a physical thing. Such as a good song, a great movie, or friendships.

[Anonymous No.24033572]

Jordan Belfort: "Tether is a fraud"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzpqxqbq0Jg

[Anonymous No.24033963]

>>24025803

Cryptos as a general asset class are fine. Bitcoin specifically has a lot of problems. The downside risk for it is government hostility, which Bitcoin is very vulnerable to and which most do not really understand the consequences. Government cannot coexist with non-govt, non-inflationary, non-AML, non-KYC currency. They will not long tolerate people using it to evade inflation or conduct business in ways that might circumvent their control.

"So why haven't they vanned it already then?" Instead of brute force, they have taken a subversion approach to bitcoin:

1) Use "paper" bitcoin derivatives/futures to offer as a way to effectively counterfeit bitcoin such that institutional buyers can speculate on it while not blowing the price up (which is seen as "disloyal").

This is the same way that handle gold, and the reason big institutions buy GLD and not PHYS. Plus, as with GLD and SLV, they can paint the tape, or dump a lot of paper all at once in order to knock the price down and cut the legs out from under a bull run. Any "store-of-value" asset is vulnerable to these tricks, and they can last for a while, until they blow up.

2) Using the time #1 buys, study their own Crypto tech. Prepare this roll out as a tool to put the nail in the coffin of non-govt crypto.

Fedcoin is coming. It will be centralized in supply and governance, "decentralized" in validation (just delegated to gov proxies really), inflationary, non-private, with restrictions on its use, built-in negative interest (use it or lose it), near-instant payment, low or no fees, full protection against loss or theft, and universal acceptance. It will be the tool of choice for UBI+MMT.

Fedcoin will absolutely cuck Bitcoin, because the normies don't give a shit about privacy, censorship, inflation, etc. Normies are retarded, they barely understand what those things even mean. They will flock to it like lemmings, and if they don't they'll be gently "encouraged" to trade their bitcoin in for it.

[Anonymous No.24034369]

>>24033963

Following up on this because I know the rebuttal.

>"well they can't shut Bitcoin down!"

True, but they can and will stomp Bitcoin's speculative valuation into the dirt. Like 90%+.

Bitcoin will watch from the cuckshed as Fedcoin rails that sweet "buying a latte at Starbucks" pussy. At that point, what remains for Bitcoin? Its remaining value proposition is as a store of value, and as a black market currency for cross border payments and illicit purchases.

The problem is that it's a questionable store of value, and a sub-par black market currency. Crypto will find a solid niche here, but it won't be Bitcoin that emerges as the leader. When gov goes mask-off hostile against Fedcoin's competition, it will become clear that privacy and resilience against centralization are the critical features of a cryptocurrency. You can follow that trail of breadcrumbs if you want.

>"well they can do the same to gold, so if you're right we're all fucked either way"

No they can't. They cannot damage Gold's valuation significantly with a banning when governments (central banks) are the ones buying it in a frenzy since 2008. Nobody will be convinced gold should lose status as a store of value, and nobody serious has any dreams of buying lattes with gold coins.

Money runs on confidence. Governments demonstrably have lots of confidence in gold as a currency-backing reserve asset and for international settlements, so they will fail at convincing the proles not to do the same. If they all start to sell off their gold it might be a different story and I'll change my tune.

Just wait till China decides they want a strong yuan and reveals how much gold they've squirreled away.

[Anonymous No.24034421]

>>24025868
Why are you such a bro to all of us the whole day ?

[Anonymous No.24034435]

>>24025803
Own both period. fuck maximalism.
Robber barons and elites didnt get where they are choosing one side of a war.

[Anonymous No.24034459]

stocks

>fiat is a ponzi scheme

not an argument against stocks. I don't hold more fiat than is what required to live.

[Anonymous No.24034666]

https://kingworldnews.com/alasdair-macleod-bitcoin-gold-and-the-end-of-fiat-currencies/

November 18, Alasdair Macleod: "Other than the underperformance of gold and silver, markets appear to be responding to monetary inflation. Bitcoin is perhaps a special case, with a sudden realisation that central bank digital currencies are giving cryptos credibility, PayPal allowing customers to buy bitcoin and increasing institutional demand are all driving the price…

No one is really thinking it all through. While we can now see the ending of fiat currencies, the only reset can be with gold, because that is what the central banks own. They will have to offer full convertibility with existing, or new currencies operating as gold substitutes. When that happens, the role of cryptocurrencies will simply cease.

It also tells us the gold price is devoid of speculation and yet to reflect that reset. It will be interesting to see how all that changes as fiat currencies lose purchasing power from here."

[Anonymous No.24034837]

>>24025803
Is it a competition?

[Anonymous No.24035010]

>>24025868
>i) Getting tortured for ten minutes
>ii) Getting memory-loss or dementia;
>iii) Making a thoughtless mistake;
>iv) From a fire or natural disaster;
>v) From burglary;
all of these could possibly make you lose your gold as well, except #2 would at least make it a hassle

[Anonymous No.24035384]

>>24034837
it kinda is. if btc didnt excist id be balls deep in gold

[Anonymous No.24036320]

>>24025868

>Disadvantages of BTC over keeping gold in a vault:
>You lose your life-savings after
>i) Getting tortured for ten minutes
>ii) Getting memory-loss or dementia;
>iii) Making a thoughtless mistake;
>iv) From a fire or natural disaster;
>v) From burglary;
>vi) From hardware failure.

Nope.

>BTC wallet
>Get wallet seed
>Etch seed onto 2x titanium plates
>Encase etched titanium plates in wax
>Store 1x plate in a vault/2nd address
>Store other plate in your safe
(Total cost £40)

[Anonymous No.24036622]

>>24034666
Checked. It's fucking happening.

[Anonymous No.24036706]

I agree with you. A useful function for traders should make profit in all stages of the market. We just have to get enough garanties and min risks, like on Dymmax (dymmax.com) platform

[Anonymous No.24036853]

>>24025803
crypto would be useful compared to carrying around gold in your pocket

and bitcoin CASH would be even more useful since BTC blocks can still get full and then you can't make small purchases since the fees are larger than the cost of whatever you're buying

[Anonymous No.24036908]

Bitcoin is the Nokia of the Blockchain bubble.