/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.23561446]

Am I the only person on this board who still thinks chainlink is an elaborate pump and dump which doesn't solve the oracle problem?

[Anonymous No.23561516]

I'm starting to believe the oracle problem isn't an actual problem.

[Anonymous No.23561592]

>>23561516
Create a smart contract that relies on data services with no SLA and no collateral to guarantee those SLAs and see how reliable it becomes.

[Anonymous No.23561924]

>>23561592
The collateral doesn't have to be in the form of LINK tokens though, and you don't need a network which pays in LINK. Reputation itself can be the collateral. You could have a token curated registry of honest, open source apis and achieve the exact same result.

I mean, look at the current link network. Most of the nodes are collecting fees for data they just scrape off etherscan. They aren't actually apis. And when 75% of nodes are just providing the etherscan number, there is a disincentive as a data provider to provide real information when it is just going to result, over the long term, in my link stack getting slashed.

I would be better off just having a single line of code in my smart contract which scrapes etherscan itself and doesn't have to pay 1 LINK every time it needs the price information, because I'm getting the same number but saving a huge amount of money.

[Anonymous No.23561957]

>>23561446
>Am I the only retard on this board
No, but you are one of them, that much is for certain.
>>23561924
You do not understand chainlink

[Anonymous No.23562021]

>>23561957
>demonstrates why the network as it currently stands is objectively broken, not sybil resistant, and to ping the network requires paying dishonest nodes which is why there are exactly 0 paying customers using the network
>"hurrr ur retarded and don't understand"
enlighten me.

[Anonymous No.23562031]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how chainlink is any different than aggregating APIs. The nodes are just taking data from third party sources, it's an unnecessary and costly extra step.

As far as it being a scam the fact the founder is dumping millions every week should tell you all you need to know.

[Anonymous No.23562068]

Link is so fucking retarded
>how can people trust others unless they stake out worthless token hurrdurr

[Anonymous No.23562083]

Yes, all in LIT or ngmi

[Anonymous No.23562089]

chainlink is dead the jp morgan oracles are going to squash is like a bug. game over retards you should have sold at 20$
they already did a nice 100x and got out

[Anonymous No.23562152]

>>23561516
allah willing next you realize street is not toilet

[Anonymous No.23562200]

>>23562021
god I love it when Sergey gets those girls in the Sybil position and screams
> "THESE WHORES AREN'T SYBIL RESISTANT!!!"

[Anonymous No.23562295]

>>23562031
>>23562068
It's not a bad idea. Collateralising information has a huge use case. The problem arises when Chainlink tries to get people to pay LINK for information that
>a) is not provided by apis themselves but by people scraping apis for fees
>b) aggregates to the etherscan number, as that's where most nodes scrape their data from, to the point where an honest api like uniswap would get slashed for providing a number different to the etherscan number
Any customer would be better off just using the etherscan number themselves and not relying on the middleman, and if they wanted aggregated data, they could just use a curated registry.

[Anonymous No.23562315]

>>23562031
https://medium.com/api3/where-are-the-first-party-oracles-5078cebaf17

[Anonymous No.23562363]

>>23561446
What happened to link tho all that pomp and circumstance it had going for it and now it just feels like it’s falling every single day compared to btc for the last 3 months. Did amazon or tesla hit major patches like this?

[Anonymous No.23562462]

>>23562315
kek so the fudders are not discord trannies they're Chainlin dropouts

[Anonymous No.23562516]

>>23562295
> customers will do it themselves
kek Karen from sales is going to look up etherscan transaction this early into adoption
> doesn't understand that all 2020 problems are designed to force a redesign and reconsideration of trust
People will ask questions like how can I trust this curated registry?
It was Chainlink verified will be the answer.

[Anonymous No.23562714]

>>23562516
Karen from sales isn't using smartcontracts and never will.
>It was Chainlink verified will be the answer.
Who exactly verifies this though? And how is it decentralised, or how can it ever be?
It's currently 100% centralised and even now over 75% of the nodes are dishonest. They are collecting fees for data they don't produce, and create a disincentive for real data providers to provide their data because they will be slashed when a disparity arises.
If I wanted to be a node I would simply scrape the exact same data source that all the other nodes scrape (read: etherscan) and sit there collecting fees and being inefficient. This is what T-Systems and the majority of nodes currently do. If you attempt to provide data from your exchange, you are just going to get slashed when your data disagrees with the data everyone else has. As such, it is better to be a 'lazy' node than to actually put in any work.

[Anonymous No.23562732]

>>23561446
Worse. There isn't even an oracle problem

[Anonymous No.23562838]

>>23562714
at least wrt price feeds you’re describing a really great mechanism for forcing out non-conforming (manipulable) api and enforcing uniform honesty

[Anonymous No.23562959]

>>23561446
If it was a pump and dump, it would have crashed to $1 or less after hitting $20 like all the other shitcoins.

[Anonymous No.23562986]

>>23561446
you are not the only one. looking for decentralized non PnD? try plotx fren

[Anonymous No.23562996]

>>23562714
Are you suggesting that making data providers will be the next gold rush and chainlink providing incentive?
Are you also suggesting there will be standards nodes have to meet in terms of where they get their data from in terms of the premiums they should be paid?
I always thought it was strange they're all paid the same in fees desu

[Anonymous No.23563096]

>>23562959
It'll crash to $1 or less when they run out of gullible cultists to buy their bags.

[Anonymous No.23563448]

>>23562959
Type in chainlink on twitter or stocktwits. Crypto is retarded because the average crypto buyer is retarded and just buys into hype and green lines. LINK is the most hyped project since ethereum. Even obvious ponzis like BitConnect went 100x link's marketcap and there are STILL scams like Tron and BNB in the top 20 today.
The price going up doesn't mean the fundamentals are good, and it never has. This is true of any market but especially in crypto.

>>23562838
Sure. I'm not saying LINK is a bad idea or that collateralised price aggregators are bad. But LINK can't be decentralised because lazy actors are paid just as well as honest ones, and bad money pushes out good. Honest nodes get slashed, lazy nodes get rewarded, and that's when every node is ostensibly "verified" by link itself. This is a real problem and if they can't solve it when there are 10 nodes, how can they solve it when they want 10,000? Their incentive model just creates useless information, but the end user still has to pay for it. A more efficient model which didn't pay these nodes could operate far, far cheaper, and the honest nodes would collect a greater % in fees.

>>23562996
>Are you also suggesting there will be standards nodes have to meet in terms of where they get their data from in terms of the premiums they should be paid?
Currently these "standards" exist in the agreements that they sign with Chainlink. And yet when you look at the actual price references given by those nodes, you can see that there are only 2-3 different numbers being input. Most of the nodes use the same data sources and don't provide their own. Why should somebody pay these nodes real money, when the nodes don't do any work? You could aggregate the same data sources yourself with a few lines of code and (if you run a derivative dex) save millions every month.

[Anonymous No.23563601]

>>23561516
The oracle problem is a real problem but its factually impossible to solve
You cant make shure an event happened without being shure it happened
An sensor could just feed fake information and you would have no way to know it is fake as the only piece of information you have comes from the sensor
Now for a normal usecase you could just use more sensors to measure the same thing and check for differences between them assuming not all sensors fail at once
For a blockchain use case all sensors would have to be in the same location, or at least be dependent on the same data and if someone can manipulate one he can also manipulate the others, you have no way to check for manipulations of the data source
It just doesn't work, it cant possibly work

[Anonymous No.23563608]

>>23561446
Yes

[Anonymous No.23563671]

>>23561446
Funny how money can turn you into an unlikeable douchebag.

[Anonymous No.23563791]

>>23563448
bump sounds like something Sergey and frens will have to solve guess that's why they tossed API3 and hired a bunch of new talent

[Anonymous No.23563894]

>>23563791
The solution already exists though. It's just curated data aggregation from open-source apis. You can decentrally curate the list of apis using something like kleros curate or any other similar system.
>cuts out the middle men that use other people's apis and collect fees for it
>doesn't require a token
>is free to ping (saves you 1 LINK per data request)
>any situation in which wash-trading is suspected or they appear to be using external data, you could have a case to slash their reputation and by extension influence on the data feed
Just something as simple as that would only be a few hundred lines of code, save the end user huge amounts of money, and absolutely destroy centralised middlemen like chainlink who set themselves up in between apis and end users and collect a cut.
If Sergey actually solved the oracle problem, he would solve himself out of a job. He's already cashed in tens of millions so he's personally fine, but if you see the direction chainlink is going, it's clear they're trying to stay relevant as a middleman rather than actually creating decentralised efficiencies.

[Anonymous No.23563970]

>>23563894
> token not needed
> technical fud
oh.
So how to deal with different data standards and formats?
How to push data on chain?

[Anonymous No.23563972]

>>23561446
an elaborate pump and dump where the price only pumps and the team for some reason doesnt cash out their reserve tokens worth a minimum over $6billion.

[Anonymous No.23564001]

>>23561957
cope

[Anonymous No.23564047]

LINK is far and away overrated, doesn’t work in any way lined out in the whitepaper, provides zero value to token holders beyond unintended liquidity in DeFi borrowing/lending.

Despite that, Sergey was smart when he dumped a massive amount of capital. If the node software needs to be rewritten from scratch to make it “work” in a viable way it will happen.

Chainlink is shit, but it’s the best vector for investing the blockchain middleware space.

[Anonymous No.23564073]

>>23561924
Yup. You're right anon. I really started questioning LINK's business model when new things like API3 and DIA started offering alternatives.

[Anonymous No.23564091]

>>23563970
>how to deal with different data standards and formats
Same way it's currently done. Just tapping the pricing data from easily accessible information, whether etherscan or uniswap or whoever.

>>23563972
>an elaborate pump and dump where the price only pumps
So far, sure. But every bobo will tell you there's always a dump and every stock goes to 0 eventually.
>for some reason doesn't cash out their reserve tokens worth a minimum over $6billion.
They can't cash this out all at once or the price would flash crash to 0. But suddenly selling 1,000,000 LINK per sale doesn't stand out to you as interesting? What do they need that much money for? It isn't paying the nodes because the incentive wallets cover that. Sergey is already ludicrously rich off BTC and has made tens of millions off LINK. Why does he now need $10m per fortnight?

>>23564047
>blockchain
>middleware
See, these are the words that should ring alarm bells. It's like investing in faster horses when cars have been invented.

[Anonymous No.23564133]

>>23564073
well i know makerdao had apis (not uracools) without needing chainlink.

[Anonymous No.23564178]

reminder that this is an api3 demoralization and shill for their next failure thread

[Anonymous No.23564209]

>>23564091
> data flows on chain no problems goyim
ummm anon I...
You're that Turkish dude ain't you?
> why does Sergey need money to grow his business
> 10MM is "heaps"
gee I wonder why they just hired how many people?

[Anonymous No.23564412]

>>23564209
>confusing the team wallet with sergey's personal wallet
It's 10MM per fortnight. Even *if* you paid each of your 30 office staff $1m per year, it makes no sense to be selling so much so often.
But no, I'm not part of the turkish spammers who have been ruining this board lately. They're also part of the problem by trying to be inefficient middlemen without providing a real solution. The solution to the oracle problem is open-source, on-chain data directly from other smart contracts, and then curated in a decentralised manner. Extremely cheap, free to access/incorporate, and no middlemen. Uniswap is a good example of pricing information that comes directly from the market itself, but there will be many others like it as dexs take off.

[Anonymous No.23564559]

>>23564412
>10MM per fortnight is "heaps"
kek okay poorfag you can't think ahead can you?
> the solution is just to connect everything free and cheap
What sort of fantasy world do you live in? Uniswap is a jeet exchange the new yobit with DECENTRALIZED built in very limited ways.
Binance controls most uniswap tokens now so it is not decentralized.
> pricing info comes directly from markets
who provides this data?

[Anonymous No.23564620]

>>23561924
>I would be better off just having a single line of code in my smart contract which scrapes etherscan itself

Cachando huevo

[Anonymous No.23564665]

>>23564091
If it was a pump and dump why hire a lot of people and keep hiring people for legitimate positions? Why would respected people in their field like Ari Juels put their reputation on the line to join a pump and dump team?

I'm hoping the $10million/week is being used for research & development(chainlink labs), salaries, marketing, but who knows.

[Anonymous No.23564767]

Ya. I don't get link either op. Still looks like some retarded rent seeking middleware at best.

[Anonymous No.23564813]

>>23561446
LINK is a SCAM
PERIOD.

[Anonymous No.23564852]

>>23564559
>10MM per fortnight is "heaps"
Your words, by the way, not mine. But in terms of hiring 30 new positions, do you really think those office managers are getting paid $300k per fortnight?

>What sort of fantasy world do you live in? Uniswap is a jeet exchange the new yobit with DECENTRALIZED built in very limited ways. Binance controls most uniswap tokens now so it is not decentralized.
What better pricing solution do you have? All exchanges in crypto are dodgy, but uniswap perhaps the lease so of all. The data is there, for free, and it is more decentralised than link. Many of the link nodes just rip data directly from etherscan, which weights uniswap extremely heavily due to the volume. Why would I pay chainlink to give me uniswaps price fees when uniswap provides me this information for free?

>>23564665
It appears to be a pump and dump in the traditional sense, not the crypto 1 week rugpull sense. It is a team using hype and fake partnerships to sell themselves as an expensive middleman. Hiring employees doesn't mean your solution is a good one. Nikola and wirecard had/have employees. Enron had employees.
The problem which link claims to solve, but has nobody buying their solution, is one that can be solved for free *right now* without using chainlink as the middleman. Almost everything in crypto needs a price feed and nobody uses chainlink because it is woefully inefficient, expensive, and no more trustworthy than the price feeds ripped from etherscan because it *is* the price feed ripped from etherscan.

[Anonymous No.23564860]

>>23561446
link has already provided bad data and realistically nobody needs to use link as an oracle

[Anonymous No.23564879]

>>23561446
No, most of the oldfags agree with you. Link is a nu-biz coin

[Anonymous No.23564938]

I'm starting to believe no amount of link will ever make it and cure the suffering of life

[Anonymous No.23565016]

>>23564852
holy shit you're right. How much should I buy before the pump?

[Anonymous No.23565122]

>>23564852
> Sergey is thinking ahead
you'd need a decent float to take advantage of deco and towncrier and whatever else comes up you want to acquire in addition to expenses
> reeee I have to pay for security
yes.
> Uniswap is a jeet exchange
yes plus 1 for rugs
> why would I pay for etherscan
umm sweetie etherscan only covers eth tokens. What about the others?
> its an elaborate pnd
ftfy
> pricefeeds are ripped directly from etherscan
except for non erc tokens right? Not to mention ETH doesn't know its own price without a feed telling it.
Where's your solution?

[Anonymous No.23565423]

>>23565122
>except for non erc tokens right? Not to mention ETH doesn't know its own price without a feed telling it. Where's your solution?
My solution is the same as the industry standard - aka not using chainlink and just aggregating public apis from market exchanges. Nobody, outside SNX who is *paid* to use chainlink, actually uses the network.

>umm sweetie etherscan only covers eth tokens. What about the others?
Look at >>23561924. 75% of all LTC nodes are using information from 2 sources, which are taken from public apis. An honest actor who wanted to add their own data feed would lose money by having their collateral slashed. Why would they even bother, when they can just aggregate the same source (coingecko/binance/whatever other exchange) and sit there collecting fees like 75% of the nodes do in exchange for zero work? Whether it's etherscan or tron or whatever token you could possibly want, whether you use chainlink or any other api, you get the exact same information, but one is free and one is expensive.

>uniswap has rugpulls (because it's actually decentralised) so price feeds based on public market data are bad
Go to https://uniswap.vision/?ticker=UniswapV2:LINKETH&interval=240
Divide the total number of eth in the pool by the total number of link in the pool.
Suddenly, you have an accurate price, which is decentralised, publically available, and FREE to access. Replace the word 'uniswap' with any dex or exchange you trust if you don't like uniswap. Why would I pay a node to give me this information when it's right there? The whole concept of chainlink as a rent seeking middleman falls apart. Which, again, is why they have absolutely 0 paying customers.

[Anonymous No.23566163]

>>23565423
you sound like a pajeet wanting to buy discount used condoms
I want my data fresh premium and on demand faggot.
Where do they get the forex feeds from?
Why are integrations happening daily?

[Anonymous No.23566297]

>>23566163
>why are there integrations happening daily
Ah yes, the integrations with DMM and hundreds of other useless do-nothing tokens.
The answer is in the whitepaper. Partners get paid LINK from the incentive wallet. Anyone wanting to put their logo next to Chainlink gets a fat stack of linkies to dump on the market.

>I want my data fresh premium and on demand faggot.
LINK updates much slower than other apis. It is slow, expensive, and less accurate than many other open-source apis, which is why it has nobody using it. Outside SNX, who get paid from the incentive wallet to use it. People have to buy more link for SNX to dump on them.

[Anonymous No.23566318]

OP, you're right.
Chainlink doesn't solve the oracle problem.
Short it, and buy something else.

[Anonymous No.23566333]

>>23561446
Even if it is, it was a nice one. This much volume doesn't come into most shitcoins tho. You had 3 years.

DMG should be next. DAO-szn.

[Anonymous No.23566350]

>>23566318
Literally free money. Been short since $13 and not covering til $2, though i know it’ll get to $0 eventually

[Anonymous No.23566420]

>>23566297
> everyone wants free link to dump
> price crabs
this is really bullish actually anon. I'm not here for tech either.

[Anonymous No.23566449]

>>23563601
You can solve it If you take an approach where the entire blockchain itself can be forked in the event of misinformation. There is one project doing this

[Anonymous No.23566473]

>>23566449
bless that german autist.

[Anonymous No.23566526]

What's really cool is that link hasn't had a dao hack moment yet which means it's secure as fuck and that Turkish node fag dropping fud knows it.
imagine working on Chainlink in the early days only to get pushed out right before the rocket. kek.