/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.23075349]

Every day about 900 new #bitcoin worth $9,000,000 are created. Every day about 1,500 bitcoin worth $15,000,000 are lost forever. Supply is shrinking, not growing. See “There Will Never Be More Than 14 Million Bitcoins”

https://twitter.com/nsquaredcrypto/status/1305535685584093186

[Anonymous No.23076083]

nobody? really? bitcoin is already deflationary, all you need to do is hodl

[Anonymous No.23076152]

buttcoin is already worthless

[Anonymous No.23076234]

>>23076152
Its worth 11k USD and more by the end of the day

[Anonymous No.23076263]

>>23075349
Hold is like playing super Mario

[Anonymous No.23076269]

>>23076234
yes and? it doesn't do anything
all that's left is delusional bagholders

[Anonymous No.23076388]

>>23076269
>all that's left is delusional bagholders
>delusional bagholders
>BTC
>delusional bagholders
actually look at this comically bullish chart, disgusting zoomer scum, and tell me who is delusional
oh let me guess, did you happen to miss out on BTC? doesn't matter, zoom zoom - the world doesn't wait for you specifically and no amount of cope on your part will keep BTC from mooning further while your random shittoken exitscams

[Anonymous No.23076437]

>>23076269
the idea is the unhackable worldwide ledger service it offers with its own universal token available to anyone with internet makes it hold value

[Anonymous No.23076489]

>>23076437
just use an SQL database lol

[Anonymous No.23076522]

>>23076489
post date of birth

[Anonymous No.23076555]

>>23076489
Sure, let's also just walk everywhere. Fuck cars right? Fuck innovation and let's use what works.

Grab a fucking rope you boomer

[Anonymous No.23076602]

>>23076555
americuck boomers were buying shitcoin in 2017, you should be thanking them

[Anonymous No.23076649]

>>23075349
>Every day about 1,500 bitcoin worth $15,000,000 are lost forever
Wait, what? Is this real?

[Anonymous No.23076675]

>>23076269
>it doesn't do anything
nothing else can do what bitcoin does you brainlet

[Anonymous No.23076690]

In around 40-50 years. 95%+ of the btc will be forever lost. Just lol if you think this is substainable. And I´m not even countrin the coins that will be locked in managed funds. Lol, liquidity will be super super low

[Anonymous No.23076697]

>>23076555
well an sql database is lightyears ahead of the blockchain tech wise and performance wise.

[Anonymous No.23076713]

>>23076675
>nothing else can do nothing

[Anonymous No.23076725]

>>23076690
not really see the lost bitcoins are always proportional to the remaining supply. maybe liquidity will be low in btc but not in usd.

[Anonymous No.23076730]

>OP actually think a shrinking supply is a good thing
KEK, you fucking retard. The supply will eventually shrink to zero. Your bitcoin will be worthless when it´s one of the few left in circulation, because there wouldnt be a secure bitcoin blockchain anymore

[Anonymous No.23076752]

>>23076713
nothing else can do: trustless permissionless and secure publicly auditable ledger achieved by byzantine fault tolerant distributed consensus. it also has a mathematically hard capped supply which no natural asset in our universe has.

[Anonymous No.23076774]

>>23076725
That means price will have to rise forever, which is impossible. Miners will have close to no revenue since there will be very few on chain transactions that generate fees. Mining will not be worth the hassle, and the hash rate will collapse. Btc blockchain is fundamentally flawed and satoshi is a con artist or a fool

t. 140 iq prodigy

[Anonymous No.23076788]

>>23076730
okay here is your homework: keep multiplying any positive number with 0.9 until you reach zero. go ahead!

[Anonymous No.23076815]

>>23076697
horses were million years of evolution, can go anywhere, no need for expensive infrastructure, and still nobody is using horses nowadays unless you are a faggot or a spoiled princess or both.

[Anonymous No.23076822]

>>23076774
>That means price will have to rise forever, which is impossible.
bitcoin was explicitly designed for this purpose. and no people been yapping about miners but btc is the only pow crypto in existence where the miners make significant revenue in fees.

[Anonymous No.23076831]

>>23076752
and having a hard max cap is bad. God, you´re dumb. Supply needs to be predictable, stable non dilutive inflation you fool
Pick up an economy book, retard. My self made pokemon cards created with tech that is impossible to replicate, also have a supply cap

[Anonymous No.23076853]

>>23076730
by the time that happens I will have cashed out AGES AGO, we still have many S2F pumps to enjoy

[Anonymous No.23076862]

>>23076774
this is the thing i think a lot of people have trouble with. bitcoin needs a lot of energy and processing power to actually work, once the incentive to provide that energy and processing power become not cost effective, or even if they still are cost effective, but other alternatives offer more opportunity, bitcoin will drop to zero. possibly almost instantly as once it starts, others will realize the game is up and pull out as much as possible as well.

[Anonymous No.23076875]

>>23076815
yeah but blockchain is not a technological achievement or anything. it's just the least efficient way to store and handle data.
sql servers are like starships compared to the notebook that bitcoin is tech wise.
the only thing is bitcoin needs the blockchain for it's consensus mechanism. and sql servers are completely centralized of course.

[Anonymous No.23076880]

>>23076822
that will when less and less people transact on the bitcoin blockchain. There will be no reason to use the bitcoin blockchain in the future, might just use something like wbtc or tzbtc. Bitcoin is flawed, and thats not even talking about the growing threat of selvfish mining and undercutting

[Anonymous No.23076890]

>>23076752
>trustless permissionless and secure publicly auditable ledger achieved by byzantine fault tolerant distributed consensus
what is this good for

[Anonymous No.23076921]

>>23076831
>and having a hard max cap is bad.
we will see in a hundred years. but remember bitcoin was always an experiment. it was intended to kick a door out of it's frame not to end all crypto development. it's just so very early bitcoin will have an excellent next decade.
morons and shitcoiners can't see it.

[Anonymous No.23076926]

>>23076822
POW in itself is fundamentally flawed. POS will become more secure than POS in the future, so there will be ZERO reason to use POW. And dont feed me that crap about pow using energy that ootherwise would be wasted, it´s a huge cope, and only partially true

[Anonymous No.23076948]

>>23076890
well if you don't want a trustless permissionless and secure publicly auditable ledger then nothing for you.
for me it is an escape vehicle for wealth. against inflation and government overreach.

[Anonymous No.23076956]

Who cares? Just buy btc on ethereum network.

[Anonymous No.23076968]

>>23076926
>POW in itself is fundamentally flawed.
yet there is no better on the horizon. every other scheme sacrifices one or two of the holy trinity. they all muck around trust and authority try to pretend it's not there.

[Anonymous No.23076990]

>>23076926
>gets 51%'d

[Anonymous No.23077003]

bitcoin has two advantages; security and liquidity. Too bad both of those metrics will decrease over time. When another crypto becomes more secure and liquid, it will be over for btc. Btc dont even have smart contracts baked into the protocol, what a joke. It´s also manipulated like crazy, and it will always stay that way, because it´s not suited for mass adpoption. If bitcoin would ever be mass adopted, it should have moved a lot closer to that than what it is currently

I warn you not to debate me. I have destroyed every buttcoiner in a debate.

[Anonymous No.23077004]

>>23076926
>And dont feed me that crap about pow using energy that ootherwise would be wasted, it´s a huge cope, and only partially true

it's easily possible to use bitcoin like that. countries can't create overcapacity from sustainable energy sources because they have nowhere to store the electricity. bitcoin allows countries to turn excess electricity to stored economic energy.
this way bitcoin could alone reduce the greenhouse gases and pollution emitted by mankind by 40% by removing gas and coal buffers.

[Anonymous No.23077021]

this thread... it's 2020 and brainlets still don't get it.

[Anonymous No.23077026]

Btc will be an antique that you can purchase on ethereum PoS network to show off to your nerdy friends about having a piece of 2008 technology.

[Anonymous No.23077049]

>>23077004
they are storing it in a fundamentally flawed crypto, that is manipualted. There will be much better ways to store energy like that in the future.

[Anonymous No.23077068]

>>23077049
tell me what crypto is better than bitcoin

[Anonymous No.23077070]

>>23076890
it means no one can cheat

[Anonymous No.23077097]

>>23075349
>9 million of nothing produced a day
>Nothing of value was created or done

Can we just admit btc is retarded already? Its clearly not valued based on coins in circulation. Its entirely speculation. Even if 90% of bit coins were to vanish tomorrow, the price would go up not because its worth more but because people are going to speculate that its worth more.

[Anonymous No.23077104]

>>23077021
I´m much smarter than you and every bitcoin supporter. You are repeating the same arguments i have heard a million times already, and I´ve defeated them all. Sure, having a decentrallized ledger is neat, but it is possible to build one that is much better than bitcoin. You bitcoin fags have no imagination, if you truly supported decentralization you would find and support another project that can achieve far more, and truly help humanity.

[Anonymous No.23077123]

>>23077068
>tell me what crypto is better than bitcoin

pretty much every top ten marketcap crypto that isn't bitcoin

[Anonymous No.23077129]

>>23077068
there are a few, like 1-3, but im not gonna tell you. DYOR. I´m not gonna make dummies rich
Point is that there are blockchains that can potentially do much much more than bitcoin blocchain, which will never evolve past a certain point. Bitcoin cant get much better than it already is

[Anonymous No.23077142]

>>23077003
>bitcoin has two advantages; security and liquidity.
no it's this >>23076752
>Too bad both of those metrics will decrease over time. When another crypto becomes more secure and liquid, it will be over for btc.
eventually this may happen like 40-50 years in the future.
>Btc dont even have smart contracts baked into the protocol, what a joke.
you are fucking retarded it had smart contracts since the first release.
>It´s also manipulated like crazy
like every other market really. it's all the same.
>and it will always stay that way
like every other market
>because it´s not suited for mass adpoption.
blatantly false. a single lightning payment channel can do 25k tx/sec and you can make almost 150k of them per day which puts bitcoins testbench throughput to around 3.75 billion tx/sec after first day of doing so. then we not even talked about taproot which is a multiplier on layer 1 and layer 2 capability.
>If bitcoin would ever be mass adopted
that would only happen when it offered an advantage over the traditional financial system, which won't happen until aforementioned still works.

>I warn you not to debate me. I have destroyed every buttcoiner in a debate.
lemme guess you are a fucking drooling brainlet who declares he won after getting absolutely btfo?

[Anonymous No.23077153]

>>23077003
Bitcoin is perfect in its simplicity as a digital form of hard money. Smart contracts are a meme

[Anonymous No.23077161]

>>23077104
>I´m much smarter
than a snail
maybe
not sure
>You are repeating the same arguments i have heard a million times already
and you still don't understand anything... hmm.

[Anonymous No.23077162]

>>23077129
is it BSV by chance?

[Anonymous No.23077178]

>>23077123
shitcoiners never learn... since 2013 they learned nothing.

[Anonymous No.23077206]

kind of strange how all these zoomie boomies are saying "sql database is light-years ahead"

my dudes, do you know what a sql database does? it's not that special, it's just a bunch of key value stores, and some smart algorithms for indexing them.

neither is blockchain very exciting tech wise.

maybe simple elegant concepts are just more sustainable?

[Anonymous No.23077211]

reminder that 99% of the bitcoin supply will get lost. Each satoshi will be woth hundreds of dollars when this happen, according to bitcoin fags. Kek, you dont see the problem with this. You can´t create a financial system that grows forever, and have a predictable price evolution like that. What if one satoshi is worth less than it is today, when 99% of the btc supply is gone, what then??
Whats the plan B? Oh, thats right, there is no plan B in the bitcoin community.

Until you retards come up with a plan B and a plan C, I´m never gonna take you seriosly. Thats why btc will never work, it´s too rugid and cant adapt to the world around it

[Anonymous No.23077213]

>>23077003
>It´s also manipulated like crazy
>gets rugged for the 83274 time

[Anonymous No.23077232]

>>23077162
could be a curry cashie they are absolutely brainblowed by the word "blockchain" even tho it's a fucking curse and a huge nothingburger in itself. bitcoin needs the blockchain to reach consensus. but the blockchain in general is worthless and pointless also doesn't scale for shit.
but it provides an excellent trustless permissionless and secure base layer to build on and scale on top of exponentially.
but cashies will never get this they are stuck at linear scaling and brute forcing everything.

[Anonymous No.23077234]

>>23076083
just because theres less of something does not equal price going up. less of it and price going up will only happen if people want the item. fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.23077269]

>>23077123
you can't be serious

[Anonymous No.23077284]

>>23075349
BTC was initially drug money and it failed at being a currency.
BTC is currently a store of value asset with incredible upside, ESPECIALLY outside of the USD. BTC price is currently at an ATH price in several currencies (e.g. Turkish Lira). Global demand is increasing steadily.
BTC is also one of the best performing assets of the past few years, including this year. Ref chart.
The game is too easy. Just like index funds.
HODL.
Unfortunately, most folks are too emotional to HODL anything for longer than 6 months.
Too bad lol.

[Anonymous No.23077302]

>>23077142
btc is much more easy to manipulate tha other markets. Of course everything is manipulated to some degree u brainlet. But thats not the point. Bitcoin is far easier to manipualte.

Native bitcoin smart contract exsist, but they are shit. Even th new languages being created will solve the fundamental problems in the core codebase.

Lightning network is a joke, and will not get mass adopted. Doesnt even matter, a future proof blockchain should scale on main layer at least past a certain point

[Anonymous No.23077349]

>>23077302
>a future proof blockchain should scale on main layer at least past a certain point

winner winner.

[Anonymous No.23077356]

what is your great plan when 95% of the btc supply is lost. What will the btc community do to increase liquidity and on chain transactions?
Lets say one satoshi is woth twice as much than today, what will have to get done in such a scenario?

[Anonymous No.23077399]

>>23077206
op obviously has no knowledge of basic computer science or economics, just like most bitcoin fags.

Talk to Mike Hearn, one of the first bitcoin devs. Ask him why he left, ask him why he no longer believes in bitcoin

[Anonymous No.23077420]

>>23076690
retard that's why satoshis exist.

[Anonymous No.23077425]

bitcoin is increasingly centralized anyway due to ASICs and prohibitive energy costs. once that happens, many of its advantages become moot and tokens like XRP start to make more sense.

[Anonymous No.23077446]

>>23077284
It´s a terrible store of value. A store of value should be as stable as possible and hard to manipualte. Literally the opposite of bitcoin. Fuck you´re retarded liars.

T. Master in economics.
Study macroeconomics for a few years, then get back to me

[Anonymous No.23077475]

>On the Instability of Bitcoin Without the Block Reward
https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~arvindn/publications/mining_CCS.pdf
The most in-depth paper written on bitcoin EVER
Princeton university

>Beyond the doomsday
economics of “proof-of work” in cryptocurrencies
Monetary and Economic Department
https://www.bis.org/publ/work765.pdf

[Anonymous No.23077486]

>>23077399

i think it's still wise to hold some bitcoin long term and/or pay close attention to future and current forks.

[Anonymous No.23077503]

“Unfortunately, there is reason to expect that the demand for transactions will fall to very low levels. People are likely to make use of off-chain transaction mechanisms via trusted third parties, particularly for small amounts, in order to alleviate the need to wait for confirmations. Payment processors may only need to clear with each other infrequently. This scenario is not only economically likely, it seems necessary given the relatively low transaction rate supported by Bitcoin. Since blockchain transaction will have to compete with off-chain transaction, the amount spent on transactions will approach its cost, which, given modern infrastructure, should be close to zero. Attempting to impose minimum transaction fees may only exacerbate the problem and cause users to rely on off-chain transaction more. As the amount paid in transaction fees collapses, so will the miner’s revenues, and so will the cost of executing a 51% attack. To put it in a nutshell, the security of a proofof-work blockchain suffers from a commons problem[9]. Core developer Mike Hearn has suggested the use of special transactions to subsidize mining using a pledge type of fund raising[10]. A robust currency should not need to rely on charity to operate securely”

[Anonymous No.23077529]

There is an even deeper problem with proof-of-work, one that is much harder to mitigate than the concentration of mining power: a misalignment of incentives between miners and stakeholders. Indeed, in the long run, the total mining revenues will be the sum of the all transaction fees paid to the miners. Since miners compete to produce hashes, (5) It is possible that a new technology will supplant ASICs who themselves replaced FPGA boards. However, the pace of this type of innovation is nowhere fast enough to prevent miners from forming dominating positions for long period of times; and such innovation would benefit but a new (or the same) small clique of people who initially possess the new technology or eventually amass the capital to repeat the same pattern. (6) the amount of money spent on mining will be slightly smaller than the revenues. In turn, the amount spent on transactions depends on the supply and demand for transactions. The supply of transactions on the blockchain is determined by the block size and is fixed.

"Second, the transaction market cannot generate an adequate level of
“mining” income via fees as users free-ride on the fees of other transactions in a block and in the subsequent blockchain. Instead, newly minted bitcoins, known as block rewards, have made up the bulk of mining income to date. Looking ahead, these two limitations imply that liquidity is set to fall dramatically
as these block rewards are phased out. Simple calculations suggest that once block rewards are zero, it
could take months before a Bitcoin payment is final, unless new technologies are deployed to speed up
payment finality. Second-layer solutions such as the Lightning Network might help, but the only
fundamental remedy would be to depart from proof-of-work, which would probably require some form
of social coordination or institutionalisation."

[Anonymous No.23077545]

>>23077399
>be one of first bitcoin devs
>spend 5 years working on the project
>sell entire stack at $250 in early 2016

[Anonymous No.23077558]

>>23077446
As an American w/ > 1 mil networth, it's too bad that your masters in economics has made you way too close minded in regards to what is going on outside of the USA (4.25% of global population)
BTC is a better store of value than many sovereign currencies. ATH in turkish lira, now.
MicroStategy just bought $250 million BTC.
Paul Tudor Jones has entered the BTC world.
Even if you monthly dollar cost averaged into BTC at the 2017 peak, you still outperformed all US indexes today.

[Anonymous No.23077606]

>>23077545
kek
guess who was right and who was wrong, time puts everything in its place

[Anonymous No.23077610]

>>23076388
>log chart
Maximum cope

[Anonymous No.23077626]

>>23077545
He knew it was flawed. But he underestimated just how stupid people are. Most people will swallow the bitcoin supply cap meme, cencorship free money, without analysing it.
Government could easily crash the price of bitcoin if they want to. The no one can destoy bitcoin narrative is just an illusion. Once enough people start believing in bitcoin price increase, a lot will sell and leave. The biggest bitcoin use case is specualtion, and once hope starts to fade, it becomes vularble because it doesnt have many other usecases to fall back on

[Anonymous No.23077653]

>>23077211
>99% of the bitcoin supply will get lost
The 4% per year in that article is stupid. It's basically "when BTC was worthless people lost a lot, so they will continue to lose it at the same rate forever."
>Each satoshi will be woth hundreds of dollars when this happen, according to bitcoin fags.
Yes. It's arbitrary. The whole network could operate on 1 bitcoin, and people would just trade satoshis.
>What if one satoshi is worth less than it is today, when 99% of the btc supply is gone, what then??
What if the network is abandoned, then the network will be abandoned!
>Thats why btc will never work, it´s too rugid and cant adapt to the world around it
It works now, and the rigidity is the point. Central banks rewrite the rules when they feel like it to benefit the (((elite))). Bitcoin is predictable and reliable. It's a feature, not a bug.

[Anonymous No.23077656]

>>23077626
stop believing in price increase***

[Anonymous No.23077710]

>>23077558

don't you think the bitcoin network is too vulnerable to attack?

i think that we'll see national digital currencies with relatively high initial interest rates to incentivize their use. i think bch has a very practical approach to the scaling problem, though it still suffers from centralization, specifically in china.

[Anonymous No.23077713]

>>23076388
>bullish chart

There is no such thing you dumb TA faggot

[Anonymous No.23077727]

>>23077653
The problem is that btc has so many problems and points of potential failure, that the probabilty of it succeeding is super low. Ihave only scratched the surface of btc problems. The network will be a ghost town, trading satoshis while having one btc in circulation is terribly dumb. Inflation is neccessary.


“Impact on Bitcoin security. If any of the deviant mining strategies we explore were to be deployed, the impact on Bitcoin’s security would be serious. At best, the block chain will have a significant fraction of stale or orphaned blocks due to constant forks, making 51% attacks much easier and increasing the transaction confirmation time. At worst, consensus will break down due to block withholding or increasingly aggressive undercutting. This suggests a fundamental rethinking of the role of block rewards in cryptocurrency design. Nakamoto appears to have viewed the block reward as a necessary but temporary evil to achieve an initial allocation of bitcoins in the absence of a central authority, with the transaction fee regime being the ideal, inflation-free steady state of the system. But our work shows that incentivizing compliant miner behavior in the transaction fee regime is a significantly more daunting task than in the block reward regime.”

[Anonymous No.23077746]

>>23076388
the problem with your graph is the normies got in on the giga poomp and most of them got burned and now normies fucking despise crypto because of the dump

[Anonymous No.23077763]

>>23077004
only sustainable energy source is nuclear

[Anonymous No.23077785]

>>23077129
only MONERO

[Anonymous No.23077786]

>>23076437
>becomes unprofitable to maintain "mining and tx processing"
>get's double spent and hacked

heh, nothin personnel kid.

[Anonymous No.23077815]

>>23076926
There has never been a successful POS project. The game always ends the same way with the cycle freezing up and volume trending toward zero. POW works remarkably well with even ancient coins like dogecoin still running healthy.
The idea that reducing BTC supply has any negative effect is retarded. It's as if you think 1btc has some special significance over 0.1btc. It's arbitrarily defined how many satoshis make up 1 btc.

[Anonymous No.23077825]

>>23077420
>retard, that is why people will be clamouring to by a fraction of my super totally wealthy shitcoin and be lorded over like the stupid serfs they are.
>this will totally happen and people won't just make a new coin instead, oh wait.

[Anonymous No.23077828]

>>23076269
this is pretty good bait, all these people seething in the replies. normies really believe this shit tho that's the sad part

[Anonymous No.23077842]

>>23077713
low IQ post
>>23077746
priced in. that is what a chart IS.

[Anonymous No.23077848]

>>23077727
>so many problems
>in a hundred years miners' incentives could change
It works. Right now. It's been through some serious shit and just kept on working. Lots of different actors have incentives to break it, but they can't. Global, trustless, digital money whose value isn't debased by governments. If that isn't enough, then buy some TSLA or something.

[Anonymous No.23077881]

>>23077848
>It works. Right now. It's been through some serious shit and just kept on working. Lots of different actors have incentives to break it, but they can't.

"can't" or "haven't really tried yet"?

[Anonymous No.23077950]

>>23077815
thats because most pos projects so far have been shit, not because pos itself is shit. It has its problems and challenges, but is better than POW, it at least has the potenial to be much better. POW centralized mining is a vulnable point of failure. There is already one pos chain that it is on the way to be more secure than bitcoin in theory. It just needs time to prove it self, and it will steal a lot of bitcoin users, further weakening bitcoin.
The chain that wins in the end, will be the one that has the most to offer, and that surely wont be bitcoin. Bitcoin will just become more irrelevant over time as new chains prove themselves worthy. Innovation will be a key factor

[Anonymous No.23077996]

>>23077848
so, what. I look decades into the future. Of course it works now, why wouldn´t it? Well funded governments could "destroy" the bitcoin blockchain, but why would they waste resources on that when it will eventually die on itself anyway

[Anonymous No.23078041]

>>23077545
>>sell entire stack at $250 in early 2016

>hurr it was so obvious the shitcoin would moon to 20k

I don't know how you stupid frog posters haven't all roped yourselves. You're so blinded by hindsight, you can't even see why you're a fucking retard for mentioning this. I could literally have 300% on a Tesla Put in Sept too, but I'm not some retard hindsight nigger like you and contemplate suicide over it.

fuck off. You are the stupid delusional retard posters who get rugged at least once a month.

[Anonymous No.23078100]

>>23077710
>don't you think the bitcoin network is too vulnerable to attack?
There are many "Might be a problem" issues with BTC but nothing has stopped it yet.
>i think that we'll see national digital currencies with relatively high initial interest rates to incentivize their use.
Sheer speculation in regards to high interest rates and not what the developed world has currently implemented (0% to negative interest rates in many European countries). The FED has announced publicly that rates will be at or near 0% until 2023. Inflation will tear folks with large amounts of USD a new asshole. You have to invest in a 0 rate environment.
> i think bch has a very practical approach to the scaling problem, though it still suffers from centralization, specifically in china.
Whoever forked BCH and BSV can (read: will) increase the supply cap in the future. This is why these forks are worth so much less on the open market today. They are centralized and worthless.

[Anonymous No.23078110]

if a big government decided to ban bitcoin, most people, normies at least would lose hope in the future of btc and sell. Price would crash as normies exit. After the hash rate collapse, it would take a few hundred million probably to build up a better pool. This would take some time, but could be done. After that is done, the way to a 51% wouldnt be far away.

Only small fish have tried to destroy the btc blockchain. Just a few weeks ago, it was dicloused that a maor bug in the btc codebase could be exploited, and it wasn´t fixed for many years. KEK, it could have been the end of bitcoin right there, but you got lucky

[Anonymous No.23078117]

All you semi inttelectual faggots forget the most important thing , the jews won't allow it.
governments worldwide will start their own digital curencies and you faggots are gonna seeth hard when normies go with the flow like they always do and your little niche market gets even smaller and using bitcoin or any non government issued crypto is considered illegal

[Anonymous No.23078124]

>>23077950
>>23077950
>The chain that wins in the end, will be the one that has the most to offer, and that surely wont be bitcoin.
>the best technology always wins. Disregard network adoption rates, folks will migrate....
No.
You are an idealistic academic.

[Anonymous No.23078172]

>>23077950
I actually agree with this in a way. BTC clearly isn't the long-term or most valuable solution. But its the first and trusted one. Everything else has the potential to be a middle link that gets discarded. Slowly as other chains gain trust and show value they will take and add market share, and fade as newer ones take hold. This is happening now. But BTC will likely hold decent value through many of those transitions and cycles.
This is also how (needed) inflation will be brought in- The entire ecosystem will naturally inflate as new projects gain value.

>>23078041
Think of it like a stupid comic. Doesn't mean anything more than "damn that sucks for him". But knowing there's some anon getting so trigger makes smile.

[Anonymous No.23078204]

How are the 1500 lost? I know there are definitely BTC being lost but 1500?

[Anonymous No.23078207]

>>23077950
>T. Master in economics.
All POS projects said the same thing and then were beaten by dogecoin. POS becomes a pure pyramid scheme representing no value. The POW cycle at least requires hardware and energy investment. If a miner manages to get a dominant position it costs real life investment to maintain that instead of the entire system being forever under their control by design.

[Anonymous No.23078209]

>>23078100
>There are many "Might be a problem" issues with BTC but nothing has stopped it yet.

What a terribly low iq way to think.
>It works, so therefore we should run with it

If we could anayse the probability of bitcoin succeeding, the odds would come out horribly on paper. The only reason btc still is on top, is because most people are retards. It´s marketed to retards and built for retards. Remember that most people have an IQ of less than 120. Of course the stupid majority would hype btc to the top

[Anonymous No.23078218]

>>23078110
>if a big government decided to ban bitcoin, most people, normies at least would lose hope in the future of btc and sell. Price would crash as normies exit.
You don't understand game theory.
It's too late for countries to ban BTC.
If USA bans BTC it's adversaries (e.g. Russia) will allow it open arms.
Thus, they tax it.

[Anonymous No.23078248]

>>23078209
Straight from the horses mouth:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses

[Anonymous No.23078256]

>>23077097
the creation of tokens in a p2p decentralized way over a computation system that no world government can stop is the value you fucking retard

[Anonymous No.23078311]

>>23078248
this is a joke page

>Scalability

>Bitcoin can easily scale beyond the level of traffic VISA sees globally today. See the discussion on the scalability page for more information.

you can't expect anyone to take this garbage seriously, can you?

[Anonymous No.23078339]

>>23078311
I wish you good luck in your future investments.

[Anonymous No.23078358]

Once extremely big achievement leaps are made for other blockchains, they will have so much hype around them that they will just push off bitcoin to the side. Crypto is all about hype, and when another blockchain is used to vote on in every election around the wold, every stock or pice of real estate can be traded on top of the blockchain layer, everyone would have stopped caring about bitcoin. It would shoot adoption of these few winning chains skyhigh, and that would take users, hype, and interest away from bitcoin. End of fucking story. Bitcoiners don´t think big enough.

[Anonymous No.23078379]

>>23076890
ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

[Anonymous No.23078409]

>>23078339
fuck you´re a retard. Muh game theory....I bet i understand game theory better than you. There is no poin in banning bitcoin, there is no reason to, because it´s not a threat at all, because it´s fundamentally flawed

[Anonymous No.23078416]

>>23077284
Bro. Just actual money is drug money. Massive global banks have been caught laundering money and they get slaps on the wrist.

[Anonymous No.23078425]

>>23078209
>It´s marketed to retards and built for retards
It's an experimental protocol. After many years of testing it was decided it should focus exclusively on securing funds while other projects experiment with features.

If you want a crypto that probably won't suddenly just stop working you use bitcoin.
If you want a secure asset that's guaranteed to not increase in supply the only option today is bitcoin. Even if it fails the forks will fail first because they're easier to exploit.

[Anonymous No.23078464]

>>23077763
nuclear and renewables are called sustainable. basically if it's not nuclear it's solar directly or indirectly.

[Anonymous No.23078471]

>>23078425
>focus exclusively on securing funds

translation: changes to buttcoin break my patented ASIC miners and I would lose money, enjoy your fork losers.

[Anonymous No.23078482]

>>23078409
>if a big government decided to ban bitcoin, most people, normies at least would lose hope in the future of btc and sell. Price would crash as normies exit.
^
You post this are you just bipolar? lol
>>23078416
>Bro. Just actual money is drug money.
Not arguing that at all. Just pointing out the different phases of BTC.

[Anonymous No.23078523]

>>23078425
It will be a failed deflationary experiment.

None of the points u made matter because it´s fundamentally flawed. It probably won´t stop working, but thats tha ase with many other chains as well. You wanna secure your money on it, fine. Thats a usecase, but there are other safer options where you can secure your wealth. Bitcoin has lost 40% of it´s price in ONE day. What a great SOV. History speaks for itself, bitcoin is not a safe place to store your money. Too risky, so if you wanna be low risk, put it into something else. So, your entire argument kinda falls apart

[Anonymous No.23078554]

“As security researcher Dan Kaminsky explains, Bitcoin looks like a security nightmare on paper. A C++ code base with a custom binary protocol powers nodes connected to the Internet while holding e-cash, sounds like a recipe for disaster. C++ programs are often riddled with memory corruption bugs. When they are connecting to the Internet, this creates vulnerabilities exploitable by remote attackers. E-cash gives an immediate payoff to any attacker clever enough to discover and exploit such a vulnerability. Fortunately, Bitcoin’s implementation has proven very resilient to attacks thus far, with some exceptions. In August 2010, a bug where the sum of two outputs overflowed to a negative number allowed attackers to create two outputs of 92233720368.54 coins from an input of 0.50 coins. More recently, massive vulnerabilities such as the heartbleed bug have been discovered in the OpenSSL libraries. These vulnerabilities have one thing in common, they happened because languages like C and C++ do not perform any checks on the operations they perform. For the sake of efficiency, they may access random parts of the memory, add integers larger than natively supported, etc. While these vulnerabilities have spared Bitcoin, they do no not bode well for the security of the system.”

[Anonymous No.23078577]

“Here’s how things could go wrong. Due to the possibility of profitable forking, the default strategy is no longer best; we lay out a menagerie of interesting and bizarre strategies in the paper. The most worrisome is “undercutting,” where miners capture aslittleof the available transaction fees as they can get away with, leaving the rest in the pool as an incentive for the next miner to extend their block rather than a competing block.
We also show rigorously thatselfish mininggets worse when block rewards are replaced by transaction fees, motivated by the following intuition: if you happen to mine a new block just seconds after the last one was found, you gain nothing by publishing, so you might as well keep it for selfish mining in case you get lucky. The variance in transaction fees enables strategies like this that simply don’t make sense when the block reward is fixed.”


4 million btc will soon be lost forever, probably by the end of the year, which is very bearish.
Bitcoins get lost forever every day. Simple math proves that in the end there will only be a few thousand btc left in circulation. A lot of bitcoin will also be locked up in funds like grayscale, which means the owner don´t hold the keys themself, which kinda defeats the purpose of crypto. These factors suggest that bitcoin volume, liquidity and demand for on chain transactions will eventually fall to very low levels. Low volume and liquidity is a death sentence for a speculative asset that people hoard and not use. Combine this with low revenue for miners, because of few on chain transactions and no block rewards, the hash rate will drop, and so will the cost of executing a 51% attack. Bitcoin has literally 0 chance of working long term. 0

[Anonymous No.23078592]

>>23078358
>ctrl-f “chainlink”
>0 results

[Anonymous No.23078608]

Even Mike hearn, one of the first core developers of bitcoin basically hinted that btc will never work. Trust me, most old school devs knows that bitcoin will not work.

Right now, Buttcoin is a pump and dump. Whales dump the price, buy low, then pump it and sell to normies for profit. Rinse and repeat. This has been going on for nearly a decade, and yet retards keep falling for it. If you make money, it´s all good I guess, but dont pretend like you actually care about decentralization and censorship resistance. As long as The greater fool buys, the scam will keep going. Yes, the blockchain is not a scam in itself, but all the promises, exchanges, community and lies around it, are pretty scammy. Shilling a fundamentally flawed project (bitcoin) to stupid people who have no idea how it works, is pretty low.
I remember seeing a well researched post on the bitcointalk forums, where some guy showed how a handful of IPs mined almost the 2 first million bitcoins. That's 10% of all bitcoins that will ever be made, in the hands of whoever agency made it, a completely insane amount. That alone makes sure it can never grow into a proper competitive global currency. It has lots of other problems as well, like the blockchain growing too big for regular plebs to maintain a copy, leading to centralized measures, as well as the mining inevitably becoming monopolized (pretty much there already.)

[Anonymous No.23078615]

I hodl even though its not really usable for mass adoption or scaling

yeah huhhh huhh hurrr hurrr

durrr

durrr

durrr

[when you have yAPPL TOKEN why (...) No.23078622]

I want to talk with you anons about a chance, a opportunity like never before. I'm talking about $yAPPL

You can not the predict the future price while so much is happening. You have to keep in mind that the Supply is very low
Orbate is a new and improved concept made by yAPPL developer. It’s focused on high APY staking with automatic buybacks and burns.

presale, airdrops. Just staking.
yAAPL pre-sale is live https://bounce.finance/join/swap/3343
Supply : 3900 yAAPL
Rate : 1 ETH = 6 yAAPL
Currencies Accepted : ETH

On bounce.finance
Link : https://bounce.finance/join/swap/3343

>Few understand the Staking reward and LP and benefits of that.

>$YAPPL team Will launch token in presale stage will be used for staking and as a reward for those who provide Liquidity

[Anonymous No.23078677]

>>23077104
You are the epitome of the Dunning kruger effect. Its obvious that years of gargling semen and taking African cock in your anus has impacted your cognitive ability. Now fuck off back to plebbit immediately and never post here again.

[Anonymous No.23078718]

>>23078677
Another bitcoin thread, another thread where I win. You not having any logical arguments just makes it more clear that I´m the winner of thisgreat debate. fag

[Anonymous No.23078771]

the longer it takes for bitcoin to crab, the more clear it will become that this shotcoin dont have a future. It´s not even gonna be worth a few hundred, it´s going to ZERO

[Anonymous No.23078824]

>>23078718
Honestly, you've mainly gish galloped and repeated points that have already been addressed, while ignoring ones you don't want to respond to.

[Anonymous No.23078862]

>>23078718
I'm not trying to convince you to buy BTC. I want you to continue to miss out as it passes 20k, 50k, 100k while you quietly seethe and double down that it's a scam, furiously typing with one hand as you dilate with the other, tears streaming down your cheeks, while me and the other anons you're arguing with are cruising round the Mediterranean on our new yachts

[Anonymous No.23078880]

>>23077746
Every normie I talk to which Ive mentioned btc to asks me first what it is that they heard of it but never looked into it. None of them know it went to 20k or where its at now. Where are ALL the normies that bought and were forever burned last pump?

[Anonymous No.23078913]

Fuu k I'm tempted to join convert everything into bitcoin and leave this place for 2 years

[Anonymous No.23078952]

>>23078523
>there are other safer options where you can secure your wealth
All involve middlemen I have to trust and have had similar volatility in the past. Getting out with only a 40% loss was considered lucky in 2008. I could use bitcoin as a reliable accounting system even if the entire world around my island exploded. Spending electricity on that is more efficient than using cities full of incompetent middlemen bureaucrats brainwashed with the same nonsense you are.

[Anonymous No.23078966]

>>23078824
I´ve responded to most points. If there are some valid pro btc points I havent responded too, please aware me, so i can destoy those arguments too

[Anonymous No.23079029]

>>23078862
your big halvening couldn´t keep it above 12k, biggest fiat inflation fear couldnt keep it over 12k. How the hell is it gonna go to 100k when it cant even hold above 12k. And we 2 weeks away from Mt Gox dumping 100k + btc on the market. Stop listening to these biased btc scammin fags, who cant admit they´re wrong. Competition will catch up big time with bitcoin in the next years, mark my words. Other blockchains will pull off shit we didnt know was possible, while bitcoiners will sit on the sidelines while their fundamentally flawed shitcoin lose confidence by the day

[Anonymous No.23079075]

>>23078952
ever heard about gold retard? YOu need no middlemen to store it, and its more secure and stable than btc. You guys are financially illiterate, literally. It´s like you have never even read about economics

[Anonymous No.23079080]

>>23078523
>>23078554
>>23078577
>I warn you not to debate me. I have destroyed every buttcoiner in a debate.

is this how you did it? kys

[Anonymous No.23079112]

I have defeated every argument in this thread, yes.
>>23079080

Eventually there will be ZERO bitcoin left in circulation. I´m sorry this fact upsets you

[Anonymous No.23079137]

>>23076649
think of how many people die or lose their wallets or forget their pass with no way if getting into their wallets again

[Anonymous No.23079165]

Did this dude really just take total # of bitcoin loss/#years bitcoin has been around and set that as a constant for future forecasting?
This is pretty awful analysis, lmao if you fell for this

[Anonymous No.23079185]

>>23079029
First mover advantage. Is BTC perfect? No. But it does what it needs to do, be a non confiscatable store of value

Imagine if some bitch like you advocated for replacing HTTP every few years because of some new technology that could do it slightly better. There is no point because it is already perfectly good for the job and has become the standard. You think you understand but you don't, trust me you need to go away and properly read about monetary history and also the innovations that led up to bitcoin because you just don't get it.

[Anonymous No.23079198]

>>23079075
I need someone to mine the gold and sell it to me, it's no different from any other resource with an unknown supply. A community only needs electricity and computers to continue to use bitcoin for accounting when all the foreign middlemen are dead from radiation.

[Anonymous No.23079201]

>>23079137
yep, math suggest that every bitcoin will eventually be lost. A financial system that is not built to last, is just trash. It´s a temporary pump and dump scam, thats the hard cold truth of bitcoin and the real red pill. Bitcoin is temporary

[Anonymous No.23079250]

>>23079185
there you go again with the store of value meme. Bitcoin is a terrible store of value. It´s unstable and easily manipulated. BOOM
It being a first mover, is just a temporary advantage, not a permanent one. It means less and less for each passing day. Time itself is working AGAINST bitcoin, and you can´t build a substainable system that is on conflict with time itself. Retards

[Anonymous No.23079379]

>>23079250
Unstable when it now has the lowest volatility it's ever had, and will continue to become less volatile as it becomes more widely used

That's like saying gold was a temporary first mover advantage when people stopped using sea shells as currency. If we lived 5000 years ago you'd probably still be sat there seething about people starting to use gold as a store of value with the same crappy arguments you're bringing up now. You have no idea how revolutionary bitcoin is and why it is so important

[Anonymous No.23079401]

>>23079198
just go to the store and buy some in. Take it home with you instanlty. It is already mined, by that logic you need someone to mine the btc or you aswell.

Gold is much difference, because it´s permanent. Millions of years and it will still look the same. It will remain the best store of value until we discover and settle a planet or asteroid where there is gold on the surface, which might never happen.

"Bitcoin having a max cap doesn´t mean much
Supply caps and function as a store of value
A widespread fallacy is that there is something special about a supply cap that confers a cryptocurrency its value or makes it uniquely suitable as a store of value. To be sure, all else equal, dilutive inflation has a negative impact on the quality of a store of value, and we are not disputing that. However, some people are under the impression that the total supply that may ever be created is a meaningful metric and thus fall for the fallacy that a cryptocurrency faces a binary choice: a finite supply or an infinite supply. They are looking at the wrong metric"

https://ex.rs/on-supply-caps/

[Anonymous No.23079452]

>>23079401
Not an argument. Gold also has a history of being confiscated by governments at the times when the public most needs it as a store of value

[Anonymous No.23079459]

"The existence of a convenience yield is why a cryptocurrency with an unlimited future supply can have a non-zero value. The relevant metric, from an economics point of view, is not the total supply that will ever created, but the time discounted, convenience yield adjusted total supply, the “effective supply”. So long as the inflation rate is lower than the convenience yield and the time discount, the effective supply is finite. In simpler terms, over a period of time, whatever may be lost to inflation when holding a cryptocurrency can be offset by the convenience yield.

If you are still unconvinced, consider a silly, yet informative example: suppose that, at its inception, Bitcoin had been set to inflate its supply by 1 satoshi a year after reaching 21 million. The total supply would now be unbounded. Would this have materially affected Bitcoin’s value proposition by a tiny bit, or would this have categorically changed it?

The convenience yield represents something everyone intuitively knows about money but tends to forget when adopting simplistic models: money is valuable because it is useful because it can be used to facilitate trade or savings. The present relevance of future shocks to the money supply decays exponentially the further in the future they are. Evidently, the massive uncertainty over the total supply of gold on earth did not stop it from being a good store of value and means of exchange for millennia.

If the total supply isn’t relevant, what about that “stock-to-flow ratio”? This is already a better metric than total supply because it takes time into account, but it’s far from the magic bullet some people think it is. The number of first edition VHS releases of Space Jam has an infinite stock to flow ratio, but that doesn’t make it infinitely valuable. A high stock to flow ratio, alongside other desirable properties can help with the formation of a convenience yield, but it represents only one factor!"

[Anonymous No.23079519]

>>23079250
maybe we should try to define store of value.

in my opinion a sov should be able to store or increase the buying power over time. but this doesnt mean that buying the ath invalidates the sov attribute.
choose a random point in time since 2009, DCA over 2 years and you wont have lost value.

we could discuss about the 2 years, but if gold is the ultimate sov, then the timeframe should be valid for gold too

[Anonymous No.23079529]

>>23079250
This is what I mean. The non-confiscatable portion is what makes bitcoin unique. But you ignore that part completely and attack the 'store of value' portion. Everyone knows all crypto is unstable. No one is arguing its more stable than other options. But you've already considered yourself to have 'won' this point.
You do this all over the thread, and no, I'm not going to link them all for you.

>41 posts by this ID, 143 total posts, 45 posters

I think you might be the only one being convinced of anything by your posts

[Anonymous No.23079535]

>>23076890
it's good for making all your transactions public (*), to the point where the only way for BTC/crypto to be adopted would be if there were bank-like abstractions handling transactions for their clients.
(*) if you buy something from me, I can tell what's your wallet address, and I can look at every transaction made to/from that wallet, that includes all the wallet addresses you sent/received money to/from

[Anonymous No.23079548]

>>23079529
ip change, am this anon >>23078824

[Anonymous No.23079565]

"The meme that proof-of-work equates “hard money” has been successful in no small part due to the mental image of mining involving expensive hardware. Large mining operations, hydroelectric dams, nuclear power plants: all of these evoke a certain sturdiness, making the cognitive leap to “hard money” easier. Others will suggest that “hard money” properties are conferred when the mining of coins is provably costly. However, the creation of new coins is only costly provided that the protocol is followed. If we grant that the protocol is indeed followed, then the creation of coin can be made infinitely cheap or expensive at will."

The reality of the situation is that proof-of-stake is fundamentally less inflationary than proof-of-work. Because there is no external signal in the protocol that indicates who should receive newly minted coins, there is not a lot of room for dilutive inflation to take place. If the only form of identity on the network is stake, the path of least resistance is for inflation to be non-dilutive. In mining, coins can be issued to whoever solves a hash puzzle. In a proof-of-stake based consensus, the only available signal, ex-ante, is stake. This does not intend to be an airtight argument, some proof-of-stake designs involve elements other than stake. Block producers in EOS, for instance, compete in elections and use off-chain elements to market themselves. Rather, our argument is that the natural inclination of proof-of-stake based models is to tend towards non-dilutive inflation."

[Anonymous No.23079591]

>>23079201
It's more permanent than anything else available. You don't even understand the store of value meme. The tech is concerned with securely storing the account of values not maintaining price but that security of accounting should be reflected in price which it is.
>>23079401
>you need someone to mine the btc
In practice anyone can do that. In practice I have no access to gold.
>it's permanent
The supply is not so the price is not and it doesn't help solve any of the accounting problems bitcoin does. Gold is as irrelevant as beans.
When a system replaces Bitcoin the BTC blockchain will still run virtually like we emulate old games today. The reduction in supply will always continue making whatever BTC you maintain access to increase its share in the total market value of BTC. At the point you're describing it will mostly have value as a collectible but that will still be more than the total market cap today.

[Anonymous No.23079605]

As you would know by now, had you spent time reading, as none of you probably have. A supply cap is overrated and stupid. It´s a low iq concept

[Anonymous No.23079631]

>>23079591

>It's more permanent than anything else available.

Bad assumption, you don´t know this. Get a degree in econmoics and write a paper about the downsides of deflation, then get back to me, scrub. Im fone talking with you low iq retards

[Anonymous No.23079662]

>>23079605
Nice try rabbi but your arguments are weak and you've convinced no-one with your 2012 era FUD

Now fuck off back to plebbit.

[Anonymous No.23079697]

>>23079591
when somehing replaces bitcoin, the bitcoin block chain will turn into a ghost town. Hash rate will be too low, so it won´t be secure enough. Damn, you´re naive. When btc is no longer secure, dirt will be more valueble. Gold will "always" be more valuable than dirt, bitcoin wont.

[Anonymous No.23079736]

Psychology
"So far, we’ve examined the enforcement of supply caps in blockchain protocols, the economics of inflation for stores of value, and the topic of the provision of security as a public good for a cryptocurrency. From a financial-economics standpoint, we’ve established that there is nothing magic about supply caps, but we haven’t addressed an important topic: the psychology behind it. It is undeniable that Bitcoin’s supply cap has been a hallmark of its brand identity and memetic power. The concept of “only 21 million Bitcoin ever” is immediately understandable. The meme that “not even every millionaire can ever own a whole bitcoin” sounds extremely compelling and easy to grasp. The concept of “convenience yield adjusted, time discounted, rewards adjusted effective supply” is not, and will likely never be. Economic fallacies are extremely hard to uproot, and there is something to be said about going with the flow in order to facilitate the understanding and adoption of a cryptocurrency. To tamper this a little bit, while those who are into the supply cap meme may never be convinced by arguments regarding convenience yields, the vast majority of people simply do not care about any of this one way or another. They are likely to rely on pragmatic observations and, in so doing, are in fact less likely to fool themselves with appealing yet fallacious theories. As mentioned before, gold did very well for millennia with all of the uncertainty inherent in the discovery of mining resources.

While there may be psychological and memetic benefits to a supply cap, if one is to take security provision seriously, this leaves us with only one option: demurrage. And there, the psychology flips. Even though a demurrage based cryptocurrency is functionally equivalent to one that relies on inflationary block rewards, loss aversion is a real thing and the former is likely to elicit a lot more negative reactions than the latter."

[Anonymous No.23079771]

>>23079631
>appeal to authority
Is this the power of your much referenced debate skills? How about you study the actual subject which is cryptocurrencies before acting like you understand anything that's being talked about?

[Anonymous No.23079789]

Anyway to PoD custom punching bags? I want to sell punching bags with pictures of maxis like Dan held on it

[Anonymous No.23079811]

>>23079697
>the bitcoin block chain will turn into a ghost town
This isn't how technology works mr economist. The legacy chain will always be maintained because everyone involved is incentivized to maintain it.

[Anonymous No.23079826]

>>23079771
Yeah this guy is a 105 redditor midwit for sure. He's just ignoring the points where he knows he has zero argument and then replying to others with some shitty pasta that doesn't even address the point the anons making. Pathetic really

[Anonymous No.23079827]

>>23079075
gold is trash, there are multi decade-long gold bear markets, that never happens with real estate or stocks.

[Anonymous No.23079854]

“We have argued that deviant mining strategies in a transactionfee regime could hurt the stability of Bitcoin mining and harm the ecosystem. In a block chain with constant forks caused by undercutting, an attacker’s effective hash power is magnified because he will always mine to extend his own blocks whereas other miners are not unified. This would make a “51%” attack possible with much less than 51% of the hash power. Many other unanticipated side-effects may arise. In the block size debate, it is frequently argued or assumed that space in the block chain will be a scarce resource and a market will emerge, with users being able to speed up the confirmation of a transaction by paying a sufficiently large transaction fee. But if miners intentionally “leave money on the table” when solving blocks, as is the case in undercutting attacks, it breaks this assumption. That is because undercutting miners are not looking to maximize the transaction fee that they can claim, and don’t have a strong reason to prioritize a transaction with a high fee.(9) Put another way, the block size imposes a constraint on the total size of transactions in a block and the threat of being undercut imposes another constraint on the total fee. The two interact in complex ways. We believe that qualitatively our results will continue to hold in a world where the available block size is much smaller than the demand, but quantitatively the impact of undercutting will be mitigated (see end of Section 3.1). Still, it is an important direction for future research to understand this connection more rigorously. Despite the variety of our results, we believe we have only scratched the surface of what can go wrong in a transactionfee regime. To wit: we have not presented an analysis of miners whose strategy space includes both undercutting and selfish mining, primarily due to the complexity of the resulting models"

Btc BTFO

[Anonymous No.23079865]

>>23079591
have you basically ignored the whole thread retard? miner profits tank, coin is insecure shitfest with no tx. this coin has no future post mining.

[Anonymous No.23079995]

>>23079631
>you don´t know this
I do know this. If you want to record a value for posterity the objectively best option by far is bitcoin.
>>23079865
You ignore all the technical details because you have no grasp on anything technical. By the time bitcoin is replaced you can secure the legacy chain using the new tech. The chain will always be maintained like how the dev plans describe what to do in case the hashing algorithm is compromised which will eventually happen.

[Anonymous No.23080032]

>>23079865
exactly. All arguments I have heard from bitcoiners over the years, like this one.

>In the block size debate, it is frequently argued or assumed that space in the block chain will be a scarce resource and a market will emerge, with users being able to speed up the confirmation of a transaction by paying a sufficiently large transaction fee

This argument and all pro btc arguments, simply fall short and doesnt matter. Because it´s fundamentally flawed. It´s fundamental, it doesn´t mean of much bandaids you put on top of it. Only way for bitcoin to succeed is to start a new chain and form a completley new code base, but it wouldnt be bitcoin anymore

[Anonymous No.23080064]

>>23079995
doesn´t matter, still fundamentally flawed

[Anonymous No.23080143]

>>23079995
what new tech btw? Have you seen this new tech, do you understand it. All Bitcoin arguments are what if assumptions. The difference is that liquity and demand for on chain transactions will decrease. Thats a fact, not an assumption.

[Anonymous No.23080145]

>>23080032
>Only way for bitcoin to succeed is to start a new chain and form a completley new code base, but it wouldnt be bitcoin anymore
Yeah it would be Monero

[Anonymous No.23080187]

>>23079995
I'd be more concerned about the signing algo, not the hashing algo
someone really ought to make a coin with a non-BQP DSA.

[Anonymous No.23080236]

>>23080032
you are a retard who can't even look up basic metrics. name an other coin that makes miners a million dollars daily just from fees?

[Anonymous No.23080284]

We have come to the conclusion in this thread that a max supply cap is bad. And you can have less inflation is a POS system through the introduction of non dilutive inflation, which is not possible in bitcoin. If you stake, you get a part of the new coins being created, making the inflation non dilutive to the stack you hold. Meanwhile, new bitcoins bing created dilutes your part of the supply. Only shady centralized miners wasting energy recieves the new useless bitcoin being created.

In POS, everyone can participate and see a benefit. In POW, only a few can mine with profit in big centrlalized warhouse mining.

[Anonymous No.23080337]

>>23080284
>We have come to the conclusion in this thread that a max supply cap is bad.
no that's just you parroting it you fucking brainlet.
it would be bad for cash sure. but bitcoin is so much better than cash. it's better than gold. there is nothing like it.

[Anonymous No.23080363]

>>23080236
Doesn´t mean it will continue for long. Miners will earn less and less over time. Transaction fees will trend towards 0, over time. No one is gonna bother paying high fees on bitcoin when other options are better. LN is complicated and created by a centralized shady company, and it doesnt even fix the underlaying problem

[Anonymous No.23080381]

>>23080064
Not in any of the ways you describe. The flaws are clear and well known. If it wasn't flawed there would be no need for all the experimental forks. What it does better than anything is maintain a record that can't be altered. When better methods have been developed and matured all you need to do is copy the records to the new system but you need decades of testing so we know there's no such system coming any time soon.
>>23080143
>liquity and demand for on chain transactions will decrease
Not as a result of supply decreasing, until each satoshi is too expensive to account for things with sufficient precision to be useful but you can just increase the precision in the code.

[Anonymous No.23080418]

>>23080337
kek, it has no future once a more secure and liquid alternative comes along. And that will happen. People are already starting to lose interest in bitcoin, cant even keep the price above 12k after the halvening. It´s over, just admit it

[Anonymous No.23080442]

>>23080418
no matter what you name man can make more of it if demand rises. but bitcoin... nobody can make more of it. every crook that tried fell on his face. his shitcoin a pale worthless imitation nothing more.

[Anonymous No.23080488]

>>23080418
every cycle in the stealth phase the idiots like you keep parroting the same shit. see you at $100k then $280k then $1mil... bitcoin will die one day but you probably gonna kys by then.

[Anonymous No.23080538]

>>23080381
>What it does better than anything is maintain a record that can't be altered

Thats great and all, but that is already done. Whats the next trick up bitcoins sleeve? Most people don´t care about a decentralized ledger.

Many other blockchains have a perfect running time of several years now. So, over time, these alternatives will be proven great, bitcoin will not be needed anymore. You probably don´t know enough about some of the other projects on the market. Most of them suck, but a few are super legit.

[Anonymous No.23080615]

>>23080442
>>23080488
As I have said, a supply cap is pretty meanigless. You would know that had you done any research. What matters is time.

When the last bitcoin gets created, a lot of excitement will go away. But btc will be dead long before that, probably. It will get absolutely steam rolled by competitors that can offer more value.

[Anonymous No.23080690]

There is nothing more to be excited about with bitcoin. Nothing to look forward to. That means hype will slowly get lower and lower over the next years, while other coins get more and more hype behind them. Bitcoin has simply nothing more to offer

[Anonymous No.23080697]

>>23077284
I know we are close to a big move upwards when people start shitting on BTC endlessly. I want to see data on people that shit on bitcoin but also simultaneously dont see an issue with MMT economics with fiat currency.

Its all so tiresome. Doesnt matter to me. I hold PMs and BTC. Wealth on standby for when clownworld gives me an opportunity to move in like a shark.

[Anonymous No.23080756]

It´s like we´re sitting at a poker table. We have seen all of Bitcoins cards. We know what it can do, and we can see that it´s no threat to the hand I´m holding. Bitcoin has played all it´s cards, and here we are, still struggling to break $11k, which is below last summer high.

[Anonymous No.23080935]

>>23080538
People care when they realize money printing keeps diluting their savings and there's a better way to store their hard earned money

[Anonymous No.23080937]

What coins should I own?

[Anonymous No.23080942]

>>23080538
>Thats great and all,
That's all it needs to do. The tricks will be done in the other projects and it doesn't matter what most people care about.

[Anonymous No.23081049]

>>23079605
>>23079631

read this again
>>23078824

You‘re either a delusional smoothbrain or mentally ill. You‘re going in circles and avoiding and ignoring points that were made, back peddeling constantly while talking in absolutes. Just stop and take your meds

[Anonymous No.23081204]

>>23080935
not a good argument anymore. It´s 2020 and We have POS chains with non diltutive inflation, which is the best option by fucking far. It´s genuis and im sorry you havent understood this yet


>>23080937
Im leaving bread crumps for you. Im not gonna say it out loud to this shit forum

>>23080942
there willbe no reson to use btc in the future.

[Anonymous No.23081375]

>>23081204
yes it's genius to hold buzzword tokens on insecure centralized chains

[Anonymous No.23081387]

proof of work is trash

[Anonymous No.23081408]

>>23081204
are you ok m8
are you having a stroke?

[Anonymous No.23081422]

>>23081204
>there willbe no reson to use btc in the future.
There is now. There will be no reason to use banks or economists in the future.

[Anonymous No.23081467]

>>23081204
How is that not a good argument? The backdrop of the entire global financial system is where vast majorities of people who are twice as productive as generations ago cant even keep up with the inflation of everyday goods and services. Why is that you retard? It surely must not be the cantillion effect and floating exchange rates of fiat currencies which retards like you just want to replicate in a tokenized form through proof of stake.

Hurrrr durrrrr im going to open a business but first let me borrow 200k in debt with no income. So dumb. Real wealth is produced when a good or service of value is created in an innovative and efficient manner that people will pay for. Financialization and tokenization will only delay the inevitable.

[Anonymous No.23081597]

im gonna drink my beer now and listen to music. There is nothing more to be said, other than btc is fundamentally flawed.

[Anonymous No.23081638]

>>23075349
Bitcoin is dead because the chinks control it and we're in a cold war with the chinks

[Anonymous No.23081897]

>>23081422
there's no reason to use economists now desu
into the trash bin with the rest of the social "sciences"

[Anonymous No.23082767]

i wont let it die yet

[Anonymous No.23082794]

>>23075349
And that is one reason why bitcoin fails to be good money.

[Anonymous No.23083439]

>>23080615
and as i said see you and your newfag ass at $280k. i been holding btc for many many years not going to stop right fucking now lol. i will probably still have a few bitcoins when it finally goes to zero and i will be toasting to you poorfag wojacks from my moon mansion.

[Anonymous No.23083945]

>>23078554
so BTC is unhackable, good to know thanks

[Anonymous No.23084035]

>>23076875
>the year is 2020
>nocoiners are now convincing themselves that SQL would be better than bitcoin
hahaha kek