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/biz/ - Business & Finance


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22797727 No.22797727 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Ok guys I'm kind of thinking that if UBI gets distributed in an amount that makes it so no one ever has to worry about money that nation will fall.

I keep hearing arguments that with the expansion of automation and tech that there will be so few jobs that people will need UBI to survive. I get this point but the question is why the fuck would anyone go into those professions?

If I had the option to get let's say 40k a year and do nothing or 150k and work my ass off why would I or anyone choose the ladder? My assumption is that less and less people would go into those professions or keep working and the system would collapse and we'll be back at square one. If it doesn't then we essentially have a well paid slave class that provides for us.

Idk I get the concept and it sounds nice but it just won't work. It just feels like communism lite.

>> No.22797738

>>22797727
gibs me dat

>> No.22797767

>>22797727
>would I or anyone choose the ladder?
>ladder
Because you're a fucking moron so it behooves us to throw you $40k/yr that is created out of thin air anyway to keep you quiet.

>> No.22797768

>>22797727
ahmed needs his payment

>> No.22797808

>>22797767
The question is why would you chose an objectively worse life for nicer material goods?

Like I said you're just a well paid slave at that point.

>> No.22797817

>>22797727

We'll you would getting 40k on top of your 150k not either or.

>> No.22797835

>>22797727
Isn't the whole concept of UBI that it would only be given to people who don't qualify for Gibs, aka the productive people of society?
Sounds a lot more based than constantly encouraging unemployment.

>> No.22797846

There's multiple countries were you can get permanent unemployment income and guess what nobody wants to get it and just stay at home because it dooms you to a miserable life.

Also many people dont even do the papers to get the free money because they dont wanna be leeches

>> No.22797847

>>22797727
We already have UBI for millionares. System is already fucked.

>> No.22797859

>>22797727
>I get this point but the question is why the fuck would anyone go into those professions?
Because you get money on top of that. The comic you posted is fud against ubi.

If you work hard then you can be a millionaire. If you don't work hard then you're stuck in the lower class, but it's free.

>> No.22797871

>>22797835

Bribing people with their own money anon. Not a great path.

A good democracy requires political accountability, if they pay you they can take it away if you don’t “vote right”

>> No.22797873

>>22797808
>Like I said you're just a well paid slave at that point.

You're a slave either way. Modern Americans work substantially more than medieval peasants. You only have the illusions of MUH FREEDUMBS.

>>22797817
Holy shit, intelligence on /biz/.

>> No.22797874

>>22797727
Plenty of people would work hard for the 150k because it's more money and some people don't have hobbies, so what else are they gonna do?

>> No.22797889

>>22797846
Objectively untrue. We have career welfare recipients in America. The only reason more people aren't on it is because the amount is very low.

Bump it up to a comfortable amount and you'll see employment nosedive and everything will fail, setting humanity back.

>> No.22797906

>>22797727
The thing is it actually would work in an ideal high trust white ethnostate. If all of the available jobs were meaningful work making progress in science, technology, and medicine, and I knew my work was benefiting my people who would appreciate it instead of taking it and spitting in my face, I would happily work instead of doing nothing. And if the lowest people in that society were just autistic white NEETs who wanted to play vidya until they die, I wouldn’t mind supporting their simple lifestyles with my taxes either. In this dystopian hell we live in, none of the high paying work is meaningful and the people who my tax dollars go to are monstrous niggers that shit out 10 more niggers to get more welfare and degrade society in an endless spiral

>> No.22797908

>>22797889
>We have career welfare recipients in America
Yeah, politicians, the Pentagon, Wall Street.

But anytime we might get a break SOCIALISMSMSMSMSMSMSMSM!

>> No.22797944

>>22797908
I'm also disgusted by our current start of corporate socialism.

The only thing I'd be ok with is a small welfare system. I think of it more as an insurance policy.

>> No.22797969

>>22797906
There is some truth to this, like in small nordic nations. The issue is you can't turn America into an ethnostate. We doomed ourselves when our ancestors couldn't pick their own cotton.

>> No.22797991

>>22797944
“Socialism is a scare word they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years.

Socialism is what they called public power.

Socialism is what they called social security.

Socialism is what they called farm price supports.

Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance.

Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations.

Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.

When the Republican candidate inscribes the slogan ‘Down With Socialism’ on the banner of his ‘great crusade,’ that is really not what he means at all.

What he really means is, ‘Down with Progress — down with Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal,’ and ‘down with Harry Truman’s Fair Deal.’ That is what he means”

>> No.22798004

>>22797969
Regardless ethnostate or not I can't see it lasting more than a generation.

>> No.22798016

>>22797727

I agree that it also wouldn't work, but you underestimate just how much people need to CONSOOM. There are a lot of people who would gladly voluntarily give up their life just to buy more shit. Their free time is basically worthless to them.

>> No.22798017

>>22797991
The last 20 years have been shit.

>> No.22798049

This shit is so easy.

UBI works as long as you get rid of all other social welfare programs. If you want, you can also have diminishing returns past a certain income threshold.

Everything else has to go or be phased out. Social Security. Welfare. EBT. Medicare. Medicaid.

>> No.22798071

>>22797727
I feel like the majority of /biz/ r neets and then when someone offers to give them money
>N-NO THE GOVERNMENT CANT GIVE ME MONEY

>> No.22798075

>>22798017
Reagonimcs.

>> No.22798079

>>22798049
This is allegedly true but it's talked about as an add on and not a replacement. Also, whats to say they just keep increasing it until it costs more than all those other programs?

>> No.22798084

>>22798071
>UNITRADE 400 AIRDROP? HAHAHAHAHAHA

>> No.22798111

>>22797944
Insurance requires you to pay something in a pyramid scheme. Insurance because you breath is welfare, not insurance per se.

>> No.22798122

Can you believe there are people right now cucking not only themselves but us from getting 1k/month.

How are Americans this fucking retarded I'm malding

>> No.22798129

>>22798084
Huge marketing stunt, creates life long customers, goes right back into the project, and the team owns 60% and are richer now.

So that’s the benefit for them.

>> No.22798133

UBI is better than the plethora of all useless social programs we already have. UBI should replace welfare, if you're going to give welfare might as well give it to everyone. Also I heard it has deflationary effects on the economy and even Milton Friedmen a famous libertarian/neoliberal economist recommended something like it (negative income tax).

>> No.22798137

>>22797727
You assume people want to be neets and see it as a better life. Most people can't cope with not being a slave. They enjoy working for Mr. Goldberg, it gives a purpose to these empty automatons. They are the people that reason with emotion. The weak handed "investors". They even go as far as saying being a wagie is honourable and that they "contribute to society". They think pushing papers and running a cake shop makes them useful. Do you think about why people got split into essential and non-essential? Most jobs are useless yet stressful. If food transportation becomes automated will we ever have to work for our food?
>why would anyone go into those professions?
Because some people actually enjoy learning and advancing STEM

>> No.22798143

>>22798122
>Printer goes brrrrrr
>Debt, debt? Somebody elses children will pay lol
Weak man, hard times

>> No.22798267

>>22798143
>y-you can't just print money t-the debt
yo have you ever heard of taxes?

>> No.22798401

>>22798267
And who will pay those if not just the 40% of the population that naturally are not able to work because children, too old or weak and 20% that don't have a positive tax impact like niggers, woman and public servants but probably like in Germanistan another 20% of gibs achmeds and neets for life and lets add another 10% because ubi on top. 10% supporting 90% doesn't work.

>> No.22798412

>>22798267
What happens when you run out of rich people to tax?

>> No.22798487

>>22798412
Best case Venezuela worst case Somalia
Rich people leave for greener pastures

>> No.22798557

If I got 2k a month ubi, I would be set since my house/land/car is paid off. I would use my time further studying languages and do volunteer work and probably raise more meat goats

>> No.22798590

>>22797727
most of the working world already is enslaved. there's a reason they call white collar hell 'golden handcuffs'

this idea that ubi is a curse is asinine. it would undoubtedly release the vast majority of the world from debt slavery shackles if the receiver so chooses.

the only question is how to fucking pay for it, because right now the only ones paying actual taxes are the middle class wage earners.

>> No.22798594

>>22798557
>land

Why is everyone here a red neck

>> No.22798628

>>22797727
>Alaskans the epitomy of freedom
>according to big brain op they are slaves
checks out

>> No.22798630

>>22798594
^^^^^^^ this guy doesn't own land

>> No.22798687

>>22797991
fuck off you partisan hack.

that government is best which governs least. america hasn't had legitimate conservatism since the 1970s, when Democrats were openly racist (instead of just behind closed doors like today).

neocon and neolib can both go fuck themselves, politicians are scum of the earth as a collective. the only way to improve is to make them fearful for their own lives.

>> No.22798700

>We need UBI and government education, healthcare, and housing for everyone
>We need open borders and instant citizenship for anyone/everyone in the world

I honestly don't get how modern libs reconcile these 2 ideas. It's so clearly a recipe for disaster.

>> No.22798775

>>22798687
>that government is best which governs least.

Did you post this via smoke signals or via the Internet which is based on ARPANET funded by the US government?

>> No.22798795

>>22798700
When they say "everyone" they mean a select few that get to live as a white minority, and then everything else to the "dreamers" and diverse Nu-Americans.
Of course the average modern lib isn't thinking this out, but the people behind the DNC are, meanwhile you have Republican grifters that push for open borders and free trade thanks to lobbyist money, and the middle class American gets doubly screwed.
People don't realize what an anomaly Trump is compared to the old Raegan/Bush type Republicans.

>> No.22798798
File: 125 KB, 825x707, 4888_6e7a_825.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22798798

OP has literally never been to GitHub to witness thousands of autists making passion projects purely out of their love of building something that they want to exist and doesn't exist get.

Mother fucker I put Homebrew on all my game consoles. Homebrew devs don't work their assess off for $300k salaries, they do it for the challenge, clout, and fun of it. I personally script a lot of shit myself for fun. This may be an alien concept for some of you, but challenging yourself is actually pretty entertaining. It's just most of the shitty dead end desk jobs filled with pointless tasks zap the motivation and energy from everyone. Sure most people are still going to do nothing, but guess what? Most people literally contribute nothing in the grand scheme of things anyway, so it really has no fucking difference on the end result. Everyone at my office can have their jobs easily automated away, literally nobody is needed. I myself have automated huge portions of their jobs for them, and I don't get extra compensation for that shit. I just wanna prove it can be done, and don't like seeing blatantly inefficient tasks be done over and over.

Like, you know how your grandma may type "www.google.com" into the fucking Google search bar, click the first link to get google.com, and then type on what she really wants to search? It's annoying to see, at some point you're gonna wanna correct that stupidity. That kind of feeling is what drives you, money is kind of an after thought. Programming can be FUN. If you don't believe me, just load up Baba Is You and tell me it doesn't give you a dopamine rush when you find the solution.

>> No.22798802

>>22798775
>The internet was invented by an auticratic socialist regime
Point at dum dum and laugh

>> No.22798853

>>22797727
>If I had the option to get let's say 40k a year and do nothing or 150k and work my ass off why would I or anyone choose the ladder
plenty of people would choose the latter because 150k is way more money than 40k

>> No.22798886

>>22798802
Never said it was. Lolbertardians using the internet and roads amuses me.

>> No.22798910
File: 984 KB, 1280x741, 1816516186.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22798910

40k? Try like 10-15k. Enough to eat onions and live in some shit hole, but if you want access to the flying cars, VR sex houses or designer drugs you're gonna need to contribute.

>> No.22798936

>>22798594
>what's a deflationary asset

better question: why would anyone not want to own at least a portion of the only deflationary physical asset on the planet?

>> No.22798978

>>22798886
Idiot. Tax money and having innovative free people developing the theories and technology for capital gains to develop better things did made the internet possible, not some tech hippy clique like the esrly 20 something retard here thinks >>22798798 or like you think a centralized non innovative redistribution apparatus

>> No.22799017

>>22798978
>not some tech hippy clique
You shit guzzling Boomer it was a fucking military project. Same as GPS.

All big gubbermint spending.

>> No.22799022

>>22798775
what are you implying, exactly? that packet switching wouldn't exist if it weren't for the government? how laughably ludicrous.

>> No.22799055

>>22799017
And history starts with 1945
Go bait on /pol/

>> No.22799092

>>22797727
Literally incentivizes mass breeding, the more children you have the more your family makes. Like pouring bags of sugar on a cockroach infestation.

>> No.22799111

UBI is a red herring, just give everyone in America a small property (like the size of a trailer or tiny home) and then bam, we can all get by on part time jobs because we don’t have to make mortgage/rent payments.

Instead we live in a system where speculators are given tax breaks to buy land woth borrowed money, driving up housing prices and increasing homelessness so the rich can hoard more land that they just sit on.

>> No.22799161

>>22799111
Nobody stops you to emigrate to a south american nation and get on the land redistribution train, good luck when it becomes venezuela, el salvador, argentina several times, peru...

>> No.22799226

There's lots of people who will work whether or not they need to, but I think people in this thread are underestimating the number of people who do shitty jobs because they have to. Who is going to wagecuck at McDonalds for 25k on top of their 40k UBI? Clean toilets? A huge proportion of people with shitty jobs will stop, and those jobs are necessary. So, you say, they will have to offer more money for shitty jobs. Great, on top of money printed from nothing to pay people to do nothing, even more money will be dumped on people doing low paying jobs, all of which results in inflation. Which then reduces the purchasing power of UBI, necessitating an increase, which results in more inflation. It's sad that everyone thinks inflation is a meme these days, but the only reason that is the case is because all of the newly printed money is never handed to the poor. Start giving it to the poor and we WILL be on the path of Venezuela or worse.

>> No.22799344

>>22799226
>Who is going to wagecuck at McDonalds for 25k on top of their 40k UBI? Clean toilets?
Wasn't the whole conversation started based on the idea that most of those jobs are on their way out as automation kicks in?

>> No.22799371

>>22799344
>A robot will unclog your toilet
TOPEST KEK

>> No.22799470

>>22797808
>he doesn't know about FIRE

>> No.22799477

>>22797817
Guess where that 40k comes from? Hint: it's the people actually working, so that "40k on top of 150k" gets taxed to fuck so really they're only making like 80k total while using the other 110k to support niggers.

>> No.22799488
File: 182 KB, 937x849, gold_hedge_fund.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22799488

>>22797727
Gold Hedge Fund (GHF)

https://uniswap.info/token/0x15ca0e237319711584dc8a00c3bd2cb22ffdc62a

https://app.uniswap.org/#/swap?outputCurrency=0x15ca0e237319711584dc8a00c3bd2cb22ffdc62a

https://etherscan.io/address/0x15ca0e237319711584dc8a00c3bd2cb22ffdc62a

This is going to moon. Get in early!

>> No.22799500

everyone in this thread is so anchored on 40k as a value when in reality UBI would probably not be that high at all unless it was in some ridiculously high cost of living place

>> No.22799518

>>22797991
The real redpill is that the last 100 years of "progress" were indeed a mistake

>> No.22799723

>>22798978
Literally the inception of cryptocurrency was made by a group like you are currently deriding. High school is over, be a hypocrite or a parasite but not both

>> No.22799818

>>22799723
And they all did it for idealistic hippy trippy reasons. Those who could used the capital to make more capital and corporations use the lessons to make more capital and innovation, like IBM did with the linux foundation. Best slaves are those that willingly work for free, hippy

>> No.22799887

>>22797727
the entire fabric of society is going to change. reality will be better recognized by more people and creative work will receive higher social praise

>> No.22799917

>>22799887
>t.lolicon tracer

>> No.22799952
File: 107 KB, 1058x1060, 1598235769400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22799952

>>22797727
I'm fine with UBI. It will be easier to prey on the weak and lazy.

>> No.22799957
File: 89 KB, 500x746, 7B4C5C1A-A0F2-46B5-A8D2-ADAADDCD4D0E.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22799957

>>22797727

>> No.22799964

>>22798594
>being this retarded

>> No.22800314
File: 181 KB, 1473x1492, amiadumdum.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22800314

>>22799161
yes because a small amount of land for all is the same as communism and anti-white racism. you might want to look up "false equivalence"

>> No.22800340

>>22800314
Go to Somalia as much land as you want. Generational wealth if you like

>> No.22800342

>>22799818
no the best slaves are the ones who make a ton of money wage-cucking and then instantly give it all back through taxes, scams, and consumerism

>> No.22800422

>>22799226
>money printed from nothing
you have no idea how much wealth is being hoarded at the top, do you? and 99% of that wealth was stolen. look up "debt-based currency".

humanity no longer has to work 40 hour weeks to support itself, it only seems that way because so much of the wealth we create is being sucked up by the super rich. im talking about people who are already trillionaires who are like "nope, i dont have enough money yet, gotta scam even more". at least parasites eat what they take, these rich fucks just take for the dopamine rush.

>> No.22800454

>>22800342
Why to pay a middle man to redistribute shit and take a cut. First industrial revolution best industrial revolution. Inhouse shop with inhouse money and badically salves with a laissez-faire gubermint

>> No.22800484

>>22800340
you’re saying that a 500 sq ft trailer-sized plot of land for at least all the 500k homeless in America, which would probably cost around $5 billion, would turn America into Somalia? The IRS collects $3 trillion per year and that money is literally just handed to banks for nothing.

>> No.22800510
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22800510

everyone talking like this is some economic experiment being proposed for shits and giggles. This time it's different, many more jobs will be made obsolete than are created as automation and AI takes over. We need to solve this or we will have masses of unemployed people, which means riots and war.

>> No.22800524

>>22800484
No I say take your socialist ass get it to Somalia and build generational wealth like others did here be a pioneer and create real communism

>> No.22800549
File: 48 KB, 645x512, otterbro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22800549

>>22800454
one of these is you, though i cant tell which one.

>> No.22800570

>>22800549
There is missing one

>> No.22800669

>>22800510
They are automating the military as well. What makes you think they aren't aware of things you outlined? They are arming themselves for a culling. By 'they,' I mean the wealthiest fucking cunts in the world who are so deep into hedonism that they think they are above the common man. Transgender technocrats with a penchant for cannibalism. Yeah. Lockdown, quarantine, whatever. This is just the beginning. I've noticed the installation of many white / black orb cameras in my area of the country.

>> No.22800672

>>22800524
have you ever read marx? communism is completely retarded ON PURPOSE, to make people who complain about inequality look imbalanced. all the crazy communists you see on tv are just rich kids larping to make the other side look bad. they own all the news agencies and their JOB is to not point the camera at sensible people.

anyway i can build generational wealth regardless of what country im in, but most can’t, because of the constant siphoning from productive people UPWARDS. they give a small amount to poor people so you think that poor people are the problem, except then the poor have to give it right back to their rich landlords to pay rent.

>> No.22800727

>>22800672
>Most can't
And? More for you. Be happy. Or make a charity. Don't ask others to pay for what you think is the moral thing to do

>> No.22800765
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22800765

>>22800669
Absolutely. A 'culling' scenario is terrifying and totally possible.

>> No.22800827

what we need is universal healthcare and that would probably be just as expensive.

>> No.22800858

>>22800827
Have you ever been in a European free healthcare ER?

>> No.22800885

You can dress it up with fancy names and acronyms but communism is communism.

>> No.22800893

>>22797906
I work in norway and I can tell you that you would not feel appreciated anymore here than in america.
Human nature is fundamentally flawed, you will always have too much for those that make less than you.
I worked in an OR for a while when I was in college, the surgeon made 8am to 7pm days everyday + on call duty.
He was a pretty chill guy too but commies were still racing that he was making too much and how their condition was "just as hard" when they were making half the time, had a tenth of the responsibility and days filled with pauses. Their job wasn't really hard either.

>> No.22801065

>>22797727
Clover42 fixes this.

>> No.22801067
File: 55 KB, 640x628, 1599038431029.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22801067

ladder

>>
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