Why does biz hate on cs degrees? I mean they're in demand, and the knowledge you recieve can be pretty useful towards businesses, and they make decent bank avg starting is like 85k.

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Anonymous Wed Mar 19 18:02:12 2014 No.226025 [Reply] [Original]

Why does biz hate on cs degrees? I mean they're in demand, and the knowledge you recieve can be pretty useful towards businesses, and they make decent bank avg starting is like 85k.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:14:12 2014 No.226201

Probably just bitter they couldn't make it to the degree.

I'm jelly of cs students that graduate. After 2.5 years of cs in a UC, I had to switch out because I wasn't good enough. Now I have no direction in what I have to do. I might go to an CSU after I rebuild my confidence. And the medium salary for CS grads is around 64k.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:19:12 2014 No.226219 >>226025 have fun working at ea and getting layed off before you get paid op

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:21:12 2014 No.226221 >>226219 Do you really think EA the only company that hires coders?

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:33:12 2014 No.226244

Because kids get brainwashed into thinking $85K is entry level. Maybe if you have a graduate degree at a top engineering school, you'd make $85K then. Entry level for a undergrad computer science major is under $55K according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

There is nothing wrong with the major. Its just the lack of common sense that computer science majors have. They all are sold on thinking they'll be making $90K at IBM or Google or wherever after they graduate. They are either too scared or ignorant to face the fact that their first job will be fixing syntax errors in a cubicle making a teachers salary for their first 5 years, possibly their entire career if they are to incompetent to network and have leadership attributes to move up to development positions and management.

Coming from a academic advisor who spent 17 years working in tech, I can only say this. The only computer science majors who will make money are the ones who know what they are doing. 99% of these kids have never even interviewed for a McDonalds position. They have no networks. They are not apart of any organizations. They are not volunteering in local start ups. They just get good grades and think they will get a great job. They won't. I doubt 50% of these 99%rs will even get a job in related fields because they don't know what they are doing. I tell them everyday to join a club and socialize. But they insist their 4.0 GPA is good enough. If you just want to graduate with a high GPA and get a good job, go accounting. Technology isn't where the middle class wage slaves go. Its where the creative people end up.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:45:12 2014 No.226268 CS knowledge useful in business? Was your CS degree in Excel or some kind of statistics software?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:45:12 2014 No.226267 >>226201 >failed out of undergrad CS I have some bad news for you.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:46:12 2014 No.226273 >>226201 how the fuck do you fail out of CS? did you go in expecting to make video games?

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:46:12 2014 No.226275

>>226244
You've probably seen how more CS students turned out than I have, but even $55k USD is great money for a graduate position.

CS student here and I have basically no networks except for the colleagues I have in my current job. 2 years after graduating, I'm in the top development team in the company earning fucktonnes.

Sometimes hard work and talent is enough.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:47:12 2014 No.226277 >>226244 >IBM paying 90k? Son are you insane? Indian Bowel Movement starts at 60K.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:48:12 2014 No.226280 File: 78 KB, 960x639, 1387650870103.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>226268 >mfw Excel skills got me to $150k/year It's not fair, it's really not. Pivot tables kids... PIVOT TABLES!

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:49:12 2014 No.226284

The STEM crisis was manufactured by big companies that hire engineers. They just want to increase the supply of workers so they can get away with lowering the amount of money they pay.

You really think that something that as popular as CS or CE is going to be $100k starting once universities start shitting out students with those degrees by the thousands?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:50:12 2014 No.226286 >>226267 What is it? >>226273 I don't know if all the schools have the same program, but my school's was hard as fuck. And I don't expect to play video games since I don't play them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 19:51:12 2014 No.226290 My peeve with CS is that it's a degree pursued by a lot of clueless kids who are just in it for the money, like petroleum engineering. It attracts a lot of buzzword-spewing idiots with massively inflated egos.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 20:15:12 2014 No.226334 well my goal with the cs degree is to start a company/business around technology, at first I chose the major because of my interests and the money, but now I just want that knowledgexyoure shall

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 20:21:12 2014 No.226352

ill tell you why, computer science fags are not real engineers, no matter how much they believe they are. They think that since some of their classes are the same as EE or CE majors that they are in the club, truth is if they really were engineers they would major in a real engineering degree wouldnt they?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 20:25:12 2014 No.226360 85k starting in silicoln valley is like 38k starting in the rest of the country (outside bigass cities)

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 20:29:12 2014 No.226371

>>226286
maybe 10% of what you learn during CS studies is used in real life.

Programming is about creativity and thoroughness. If I were to ask you, given an array of integers, how would you determine if any two elements of the array multiply to another integer, n, how would you answer?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 20:33:12 2014 No.226381 >>226371 >If I were to ask you, given an array of integers, how would you determine if any two elements of the array multiply to another integer, n, The fuck you even talking about.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 20:35:12 2014 No.226384

>>226284
>There are enough engineers. The demand is a hoax!
What, do you sell knock-off dog shit or something? Engineers are in demand because it's a job a lot of people simply can't do. Period. Though I have seen engineers hired to do some pretty stupid shit.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 20:39:12 2014 No.226399 >>226381 Assuming Java Given an ARRAY of INTEGERS, how would YOU determine if the PRODUCT of ANY TWO ELEMENTS OF THE ARRAY is an INTEGER n its a fucking decision problem you moron. i hope you weren't a CS major

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 20:50:12 2014 No.226422

>>226399

One way would be to divide n by the first of m elements, then to see if any of the other elements match the result. Then divide n by the second element and check again, this time excluding the first element from the search (already exhausted the possibility), and so on. That would require about [(m)(m+1)]/2 "checks", making it an O(m^2) solution.

To get a better AVERAGE case, use an mlogm sort to sort the numbers in the array, divide n by the first element, then use a binary search to search for the appropriate multiplicand. otherwise doing things the same way as before, for all m elements. This part of the problem is nlogn as well, so the whole problem's average case becomes nlogn.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 20:53:12 2014 No.226428 >>226422 *mlogm I should mention that I was asked a few problems of this nature during internship interviews, so look out for this sort of thing (not this specific problem, though).

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 21:11:12 2014 No.226478
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>>226025
>the knowledge you recieve

There is nothing to be learnt in CS. Unskilled labor is destined to be minimum wage.

Worst, they claim equality to Engineers and Mathematicians and draw in even more scorn.

>>	Jew !!2BkNBO6h2AT Wed Mar 19 21:20:12 2014 No.226499 >>226478 That is correct. I'm still studying Software Engineering because in most countries a computer science related bachelor is a requirement for IT jobs.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 21:21:12 2014 No.226503

>>226219
working for ea in anything related to actually developing the games is hell
>>226244
I am transferring to cs next semester, right now I am learning python and web dev stuff (a relative has a website idea, and I figure that it could be good experience regardless). What do you think is the most important technical thing necessary to get a job in a cs degree field? I'm not talking about interview stuff, I mean stuff that shows you are more proficient in coding/understanding for the job.
I would be happy with a 55k salary after graduating, I don't know why these people would not be.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 21:25:12 2014 No.226516

>>226478
I'm switching from biochem to compsci after finishing orgo chem 1 and 2 and calc 1 and 2/3 with B's and C's. I just think that I would be better on the computer than in the lab, I don't see myself working in the lab in the future honestly. I took that stuff as a freshman, so it isn't really hurting my college course progression and graduation date.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 21:33:12 2014 No.226537 Information Systems motherfuckers

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 21:46:12 2014 No.226579

>>226422
see, this is why CS majors suck ass

you went to the first, most basic idea that came to you. Worst case, you are still O(m^2). That's really all anyone cares about is worst case, since that's what you'll run into all the time. I WAS a CS major from a shitty public state university and this was a problem presented to us in a lower 300-level class. I was the only one to score all possible points for efficiency and all arbitrary cases, and the only math I took was up to College Algebra.

Here's an ideal answer:

Two cases:

n is 0, or n is non-zero

if n is 0 and 0 is in the array, then any other integer within the array, including 0 itself, will satisfy the condition.

Assume n is non-zero, and for sake of simplicity disregard the sign of n by assuming n is non-negative. Then n is either odd or even.

Assume n is even. Then it is of the form 2*k, where k is an integer. Split the array into two smaller arrays, one containing even integers, the other odd integers. One does NOT have to impose total order upon the two arrays.

Divide n by each element within the array of odd numbers. Two cases here: either it returns a float/double, or an even integer. If this even integer is within the even integer array, then there is at least one satisfying pair of integers.

If the array of odd integers is exhausted, then divide n by each of the integers in the even integer array. Again, two cases: the operation returns a float/double, or an even integer. If the even integer is within the even integer array, then there is at least one pair of satisfying integers.

Else, there is no satisfying pair of integers.

part 2 is next post

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 21:47:12 2014 No.226584

>>226579
part 2

Next, assume n is odd. Then it is of the form (2*j)+1, where j is any non-negative integer. Clearly, any integer of the form (2*j)+1 is not divisible by an even integer. So we can disregard the array of even integers. Then, divide n by each element within the array of odd integers. Again, 2 cases: either the result is float/double, or the integer is odd. Since the integer is odd, then it must be within the array of odd integers, thus guaranteeing a pair of satisfying elements; otherwise, if all the elements of the odd array are exhausted, then there must be no pair of elements that satisfy the condition.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 21:49:12 2014 No.226589 >>226584 there are slight inclusions needed to handle negative integers, and this also works for m-tuples instead of 2-tuples (pairs) by using uniqueness of prime factorization, with some assumptions

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 22:08:12 2014 No.226634

>>226579
>see, this is why CS majors suck ass

I'm not a CS major.

>Divide n by each element within the array of odd numbers. Two cases here: either it returns a float/double, or an even integer. If this even integer is within the even integer array, then there is at least one satisfying pair of integers.

>divide n by each number in a list
>every time you do that, check every element in another list for a match

So what you're saying is that you came up with an algorithm with the same complexity. Good job.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 22:13:12 2014 No.226646 >>226579 >>226584 >>226589 so much austism. Gratz

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 22:15:12 2014 No.226649 >>226579 >I WAS a CS major >the only math I took was up to College Algebra So you were too stupid to finish CS like me?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 22:15:12 2014 No.226652 >nigga Stopped reading there.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:08:12 2014 No.226743

>>226634
>>I'm not a CS major

So my question was answered better by a non-CS major. My point has been made.

>>So what you're saying is that you came up >>with an algorithm with the same complexity.

no, for an array of size m, I will never perform m^2 operations.

1. Sort by parity

2. Determine parity of n

3a. I did not mean to include division by elements of odd integer array if n is even; division by elements of even integer array will suffice for pairs. Suppose even integer array has k elements and odd integer array has j elements so that k+j = m. Then there are k divisions and k result checks as follows:
-if result is an integer
--if k%2==0
---search even integer array
---else search odd integer array

which will either be k*k = k^2 if j < k or k*j if k < j
so worst case for n-even is O(k^2), which is better than O(n^2)

3b. for n-odd, with j elements in odd integer array, it is O(j^2), still better than O(n^2)

I didn't include total order sorts to show that my worst case was better than yours. If I did, to accommodate large enough m, I would remove any element in the m-size array that is greater than n. now, working with a p-size array, p < m, I would split by parity then impose total order, with j,k size arrays, j,k < p. Then I would divide n by the smallest element in each array, disregarding the result's type, and removing any element greater than the result in each respective array. This gives me two smaller arrays with sizes q,r, where q < k and r < j and correspond to their respective arrays.

pairwise comparisons are congruent to size of the array. j*log(j) and k*log(k) for the total order sorts, another pairwise comparison to remove excess elements, and I get O(q*r) or O(q^2) for n-even (worst case) O(r^2) for n-odd (average case) and O(m) best case to find all satisfying pairs.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:19:12 2014 No.226757

>>226649
switched to mathematics since all the adderall I took to complete that problem (the only problem on our takehome final) made me have a spiritual experience. I guarantee there's still some missing elements since its been a few years, but the general idea is still there: eliminate what you can, manipulate the data to your benefit, THEN consider all cases and develop a plan to handle them all based on the requirement.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:20:12 2014 No.226758

>>226244
>I tell them everyday to join a club and socialize.

That is one thing.

I am 40 years old and have been finishing up my BSCS at night and on weekends.

I talk to these kids who are graduating and ask them about software version control systems. They have no clue what version control is. What? You spent four years studying CS, and never bothered to step outside the classroom for a minute and learn elemental stuff like that?

Another kid I talked to about our data structures exam. He said "It's only 5% of the grade, so I'm not going to study for it, I am guaranteed at least a C already". Huh? First - forget about the grade, you have to learn this shit! If you don't bother to learn it when you're supposed to be learning it in school, you'll never learn it. Second, you're willing to settle for a C? Sometimes circumstances dictate this, but he was just being lazy.

You say do some meetups and networking. Yes. Or do some open source patches or side projects. Those who go the extra mile will have a career. Those who plod along, never bother to learn anything outside of class and only put in the minimal work - why are you even bothering? If that's you're attitude, you might as well drop out. Because you'll be lucky if you get hired. And when times are hard you'll be the first to go and you will not be hired.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:22:12 2014 No.226763

>>226422
>To get a better AVERAGE case, use an mlogm sort to sort the numbers in the array

Protip: If you're trying to seem smart, don't say stupid things.
Quicksort is gay and mergesort and heapsort are both WORST case O(M*log(M)).

>>226579
>Two cases here: either it returns a float/double

What gay language would auto cast a division?

>Worst case, you are still O(m^2). That's really all anyone cares about is worst case

Protip: If you're trying to seem smart, don't say stupid things.
WORST case is that all numbers are odd and divide n leading to O(m^2) checking

>this was a problem presented to us in a lower 300-level class

and this is why CS majors are hated as village idiots that shouldn't be in STEM.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:28:12 2014 No.226772 >>226757 >adderall Shit. Maybe I could've lasted longer if I took it. Whatever. It's not like I have the balls to take them or know where to get them.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:29:12 2014 No.226775 >>226579 Lower 300 level? The class I'm in is a 200 level and we've already discussed algorithm efficiency

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:30:12 2014 No.226777

Because you don't actually learn any useful skills from a cs degree, and employers are slowly realizing that. Ever heard of the whole fizzbuzz thing? The person being interviewed is asked to write out a program that prints numbers from 1 to 100, but replaces numbers devisible by 3 with fizz, and numbers by 5 with buzz. People with PHD's in comp sci are unable to do this.

tl;dr, comsci will be 100% useless in 5 years.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:33:12 2014 No.226785 Is Computer Engineering better tho?

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:34:12 2014 No.226786 >>226758 You went and/or talked to students that went to a bad uni. My uni had a class about software version control systems and anyone at my uni would rather kill themselves if they got a C.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:34:12 2014 No.226787

I have been working in IT for a while, but my IT knowledge is shallow, so in 2006 I began going to college at night. In 2008 I was laid off (I'm less valuable than good, college educated programmers) but had saved up enough to go to college full time, moving back home. I got unemployment for two years as well.

While at school I started businesses, doing apps and such. Now I'm almost done with school, and have a side business which makes over $30k a year with little effort. I didn't even know how to program most of these languages back in 2008.

Also - all my money went to tuition. My business was done on a shoestring - about $100 initially, then reinvesting from profits. Most of the work was done between semesters in winter or summer. Although I took classes some summers.

It was not about skills because I had little skills before 2008 - especially in programming. I could do a for loop and junk, but that's about it. It was about #1 - lucking out by being interested in app stores and such back in 2010-2011 before people were into apps heavily. And #2, massive determined effort. It took a lot to get from $0 to $30k a year. Now I'm working on $30k to $60k. Then $60k to $90k. Once I get to that I can start relaxing more.

One thing that might have helped me be so determined is I saw plenty of people no smarter than me become very, very, very, very wealthy starting startups. I have my down days but looking at that $600 a week always helps. It will be even better when I am looking at $1200 a week, and then later when it is $1800 a week. That's when I can start relaxing a little.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:41:12 2014 No.226799

>>226244
>If you just want to graduate with a high GPA and get a good job, go accounting.
lol Although anecdotal, my friend is finishing up his masters in accounting with a 4.0 and he still can't land a job. He sends out his resume all the time too. Gotta have dem connections.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:43:12 2014 No.226802 >>226787 my friend makes $1800 a week for three days work on an iron ore mine. dude didn't even go to college and he's barely turning 21.

Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:43:12 2014 No.226804

>>226786
>"bad uni" defense of CS

No. All CS programs are more or less equally shit.

>My uni had a class about software version control systems

How the fuck do you waste an entire class covering SVN/Git/CVS?

>>226775
Big O should be introduced with your first coding course

>>226758
I've seen kids going around bragging that they got code to work and have no clue why it's working like they've hit a hole in 1. CS majors do everything they can to avoid learning.

>>	Anonymous Wed Mar 19 23:51:12 2014 No.226820 >>226804 >How the fuck do you waste an entire class covering SVN/Git/CVS? It was an entry level class with java project class. I'm just saying shit students went to that uni. If people are happy with C's then it's a shit school.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 00:00:12 2014 No.226836 graduate with cs degree first job, 60k feels good, man

Anonymous Thu Mar 20 00:00:12 2014 No.226837

>>226743

Okay, that sounds perfectly reasonable. For the unsorted version, if you assume that k~=j, you'd only have to do a maximum of m^2/4 checks vs. the ~m^2/2 checks for my method. Also looks like you'd be saving a lot of time in certain cases (small k, even n; small j, odd n). Definitely an improvement.

Looks like you took some logical extra steps in the sorted version to reduce the problem size.

I thought you were implying that your algorithm was like a million times faster (for some reason), but that looks totally fine.

Anonymous Thu Mar 20 00:29:12 2014 No.226890

>>226025
I work in the software industry and I'll tell you why it's garbage.

In general, unless you get lucky with stock grants or you own the business, the salary sucks shit unless you're one of the jackasses who can't do anthing. The fact of the matter is the top people only make marginally more than the very mediocre. For the difficult of the job (doing good quality work), the pay is remarkably low and the industry and U.S. government never cease in their efforts to turn this into a low wage field.

Second, just working with the mediocre people is a real chore. You cannot imagine how frustrating it is to have to waste your time solving the same idiotic problem that was solved in 1970. Some of these idiots making these mistakes have been in the industry for over 10 years and are too incompetent to ever become good.

Finally, there is tremendous ageism in the software industry. You'd better hope you can amass enough money to retire by the time you're 40 or you might be in trouble if layoffs come around.

And for those snigger at doing technical work for an entire career, being a project manager for software is among the most tedious, soul-sucking jobs imaginable. It's great if all the people you manage are highly capable and motivated. But you'll almost never get that kind of situation because those kinds of people are usually highly paid. Most often, PMs are there to keep the train full of trained monkeys from third world nations from flying off the tracks.

Anonymous Thu Mar 20 00:41:12 2014 No.226909

>>226802
He's also doing backbreaking and often incredibly dangerous work that he simply will not be able to do once he passes 35, and in those 3 days he'll be working a full 42 hours.
If he's lucky you live in a fairly cold area, if he's not, he's working in an area like where i live, doing hard labour in 45+ Celsius.

In the mines in my area, it's not exactly uncommon for people to be taking Speed just to be able to keep up with the work, especially the people doing 2 week on/1 week off rosters. Yeah, they make $130k, but they also do a 98 hour week.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 00:55:12 2014 No.226930 >>226909 yeah he's in Aus, 50+! poor fellow. he says its hell on earth. but still man when you're young, it's the time to do it and bank all that dosh, make it work for you once your body can't anymore.

Anonymous Thu Mar 20 01:19:12 2014 No.226971

>>226763

>>What gay language would auto cast a division?

Its been a while since I've actually written any code. With Java, I think it would shoot a type exception.

>>WORST case is that all numbers are odd and >>divide n leading to O(m^2) checking

I'm assuming this array would have to leave out the second factor of n. However, if n is even and all integers are odd, we can automatically see that there is no pair of integers.

If n is prime with odd parity (which it would have to be by your conditions) then there are only 2 divisors, 1 and n. If the array consists of only 1's and n's, (which still satisfies your conditions, with the exception of 2) then we can impose an equivalence relation on the array and use transitivity to quickly check this (not O(m^2))

So technically worst case is all integers are odd and divide n, which is also odd and not prime.

Anonymous Thu Mar 20 01:38:12 2014 No.227001

>>226971
>>If n is prime with odd parity (which it would have to be by your conditions

No dumb ass, my condition is n is odd and possibly composite with all other numbers being random assortments of the factors of n.

>If the array consists of only 1's and n's, (which still satisfies your conditions, with the exception of 2) then we can impose an equivalence relation on the array and use transitivity to quickly check this (not O(m^2))

Stop using big words you don't understand. If the array only has 1s and n's you only need to scan for the first of each. EQ and transitivity have nothing to do with it. Also this has nothing to do with the worst case.

>So technically worst case is all integers are odd and divide n, which is also odd and not prime.

Which is what I said. Worst case also appears if n is even and all numbers divide n but the quotient is not in the array and there's an even split between odds/evens such that it's O(#O*#E)=O(m^2).

The original sort, scan, and binary search is still the best general algorithm.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 01:55:12 2014 No.227027 >>226284 We do have a shortage but we aren't in the right path.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 02:01:12 2014 No.227033 >>226579 which school did you go to? Rutgers?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 05:32:12 2014 No.227223 File: 56 KB, 566x562, 1099598056851.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >they're in demand

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 05:58:12 2014 No.227244 CS degrees were in demand at the turn of the century. Now, not so much.

Anonymous Thu Mar 20 06:10:12 2014 No.227249

>>226930
>when you're young is the perfect time to ruin your body and waste your youth

I know millennials are infatuated with the idea of getting rich quick, but I don't get it. Enjoy your youth and make an honest living. There's plenty of time to make your fortune in your 40's and 50's.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 08:06:12 2014 No.227356 Why would CS degrees NOT be in demand?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 09:56:12 2014 No.227498 >>226025 >I mean they're in demand No, these days it's a nightmare to get a job in there, the whole field is saturated as fuck.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 09:58:12 2014 No.227502 Google entry pay is 100k+.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 10:30:12 2014 No.227543 >>226777 Jesus, how cant they do that? I mean, I'm only in my first year of comp sci and I'm in a shitty country in a shitty uni, but they taught us the basics of programming.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 10:41:12 2014 No.227548 >>226777 >>227543 Because that story sounds like full of shit. Although CS apply more on the theoretical and logical aspects, it is still a very intensive programming course.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 10:43:12 2014 No.227550 >>226777 I'm pretty sure even the most dumbass programmer knows how to use a for loop and a %

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 10:48:12 2014 No.227553 >>226579 >CS majors suck ass, ie his answer sucks >>226634 >>226743 >Better answered by a non-cs major

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 11:38:12 2014 No.227604 >>226284 >Obongo calls for more people to do CS and CE because he was paid off by big engineering firms Somehow I doubt that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 11:38:12 2014 No.227605 >>227550 you'd be surprised

Anonymous Thu Mar 20 11:41:12 2014 No.227609

>>226516
you're being silly man. Continue biochem and do CS minor + practice CS stuff at home. Bioinformatics is a field that's going to be booming very very shortly as personalized medicine starts being implemented. If you want to make big dosh, study both.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 12:25:12 2014 No.227663 >>226763 Did they cancel nap time or something?

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 13:22:12 2014 No.227737 Should I go into Accounting, CS, or Biomedical Engineering?

Anonymous Thu Mar 20 13:27:12 2014 No.227745

>>227498
>the whole field is saturated as fuck.
Every field is saturated, even niche fields. We need new industries to sprout up.

>>227609
>Bioinformatics is a field that's going to be booming very very shortly
People have been saying this for bioinformatics for as long as I've known about it. I'll believe it when I see it.

>>227737
BME is difficult to get jobs with and insanely difficult (I dropped out of BME). I would go accounting and minor in CS.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 13:36:12 2014 No.227751 >>227737 If you could go pure mathematics it'd help out a lot. That degree opens so many doors it's ridiculous compared to everything else.

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 13:37:12 2014 No.227753 >>227745 >and insanely difficult Is it really though? What kind of math is going on there

>>	Anonymous Thu Mar 20 21:12:12 2014 No.228536 >>227753 The problem isn't the math...yes math can be challenging for alot of people, but the real problem is whether or not you are able to fully conceptualize things and then turn them into solvable math problems.

Anonymous Fri Mar 21 14:19:33 2014 No.230007

I do HR for a tech company and have dealt with a variety of other tech based companies including Google (been to local office and been flew out to their NY office).

Here are the real issues with hiring programmers:
No company pays those absurd industry standards, just Google.
Keep in mind Google does pay above average but they own your life. In their office 90% of employees never even leave the office. Their office is amazing: hammocks, personal chef and everything you need so you never have to or will leave the office. If you account for the massive hours included in working at Google, you are getting paid much less. The people working there are just more passionate about the job. They do a good job brainwashing everyone to believing in Google.
As for other medium / smaller businesses, due to competition, more and more work getting outsourced to India and then bring the final product for QA inhouse. The people hired are more project managers that can spec out requirements and do QA. Most still keep a small team in house team for emergencies but they are generally senior developers that can deal with clients as well.
For the premium tech companies that brand themselves as all in house work, the cost is a good 3x more expensive higher due to the higher wages. To lower cost to even that level requires use of interns for lower wages and/or freelancers. You can't have a developer paid 50k+ sitting around doing nothing so they are always overworked and freelancers pick up slack to make sure due dates are met.

So of the many roles described, thus makes up 90% of the companies hiring. I know people that get jobs at non tech based companies looking to expand an internal tech team but those jobs are few and little job security. Once they calculate cost of keeping an internal team, they realize outsourcing their development work is cheaper.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 14:23:03 2014 No.230012 >>227751 Computational Physics or CS with a Statistics minor is better for purely "opening doors." It all depends on what you want to do though

>>	pete pe Fri Mar 21 14:28:03 2014 No.230021 >>230007 FB pays more than Google for engineers, and I'm sure a few others growth driven tech companies rivals. E.g Juniper and Linkedln. apple etc

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 14:28:33 2014 No.230018 >>230007 I like this insight. You say Google is overpaid, yesh of course, but how much does your average software guy make?

Anonymous Fri Mar 21 14:35:04 2014 No.230034

>>226777
>Because you don't actually learn any useful skills from a cs degree, and employers are slowly realizing that. Ever heard of the whole fizzbuzz thing? The person being interviewed is asked to write out a program that prints numbers from 1 to 100, but replaces numbers devisible by 3 with fizz, and numbers by 5 with buzz. People with PHD's in comp sci are unable to do this.

there isn't anyone who actually can't do that, is there? please tell me that this is a joke

Anonymous Fri Mar 21 15:52:33 2014 No.230194

>>230034
I'd say 75% of CS major can not do similar questions but most now ~memorize~ a solution to fizzbuzz

http://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/

CS education (at top schools) involves how to photocopy cheat sheets, how to put your name on top of someone else's code, and "group" projects done by one person.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 15:59:34 2014 No.230208 >>227249 >Enjoy your youth and make an honest living. Working in the mines is honest living. I'd rather have zero social life and enjoyment, work my ass off till it bleeds when I'm young so I can reap the benefits when I'm older.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 16:09:03 2014 No.230226 I dont know why biz hates cs degrees. I wish I had at least a minor in cs to add to my bio degree. I'd be able to access a lot more jobs if I knew even just basic programming

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 16:56:29 2014 No.230303 >>226025 Not even /g/ likes CSfags because of reasons explained here >>226244 See for yourself: >>>/g/40933791

Anonymous Fri Mar 21 17:00:48 2014 No.230312

>>230303
No one likes CSfags. /sci/ has been saying it forever but now people are finally catching on because they're realizing that CS has already reached its peak. The bubble's gonna burst any day now.

The world needs programmers. The world does NOT need CS majors.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 17:11:17 2014 No.230331 >>230312 B-but who will advance the science of computers?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 17:13:47 2014 No.230334 File: 2.42 MB, 320x240, 1395433276144.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>230331 >the science of computers Oh boy

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 17:43:20 2014 No.230378 >>230303 >That thread >Dipshits arguing that imaginary numbers are pointless /g/ is retarded as fuck.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 17:50:20 2014 No.230387 >>226280 wait are pivot tables actually useful? is it something I could add to a resume or would I just put good excel skills or something

Anonymous Fri Mar 21 18:21:20 2014 No.230431

Personal story: I'm a second-year EE student with no previous work experience. I was recently hired for a well-paid software QA/hardware testing internship within hours of a phone interview with a huge company. The thing that differentiated me from the huge number of CS students who had applied for the same job was that despite having only one high-level programming course under my belt, I'd done a few (very) small programming projects in my spare time and was able to show them some of my code. They were even impressed with the fact that I'd played around with Linux. It really demonstrates how rare it is to find people who are actually interested in what they're doing.

I have a friend in CS who's also looking for an internship. He has great grades, but he doesn't do any programming in his spare time. He's been to ~20 interviews without hearing anything back.

More than anything else, employers want people who are interested/demonstrably competent in programming. They want to know that you're not a kid who bases his degree choice on a Payscale page, does the bare minimum, then expects an easy ride when he graduates.

>>230194
>cheating

This is a really big problem in programming classes. More than anywhere else, it's very easy to copy a classmate's work or find a complete solution online. I know for a fact that many of my classmates cheated - in fact, on two separate occasions I've had people I knew come up to me and beg to copy my code wholesale for simple labs.

It's also difficult for a professor, TA (or employer!) to verify that a given program is working exactly as it should in all cases, so students are often given the benefit of the doubt. For this reason, exams I've taken for classes with programming components have mostly asked about the concepts, with only a small "written code" portion (also due to time constraints). It's difficult to measure coding ability in school, which I suspect is part of why progamming is such a "proof is in the pudding" field.

Anonymous Fri Mar 21 18:27:20 2014 No.230446

>>230226
>I'd be able to access a lot more jobs if I knew even just basic programming
College courses aren't needed to teach coding and they don't even do a good job of it for the majority of students in the class.

Get a how to code book and data structures book, read them, do exercises, then come up with an idea and troll the internet until you figured out how to code it. I guarantee you'll coming coding far better in a fraction of the time.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 18:32:20 2014 No.230460 >>230431 >They were even impressed with the fact that I'd played around with Linux Are you saying that the uni makes students code in Windows/Macs? What the fuck

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 18:35:20 2014 No.230467 File: 123 KB, 300x300, 1389311519700.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>230460 >Macs Don't even ask.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 18:42:20 2014 No.230486 >>230467 AHAHAHA. Anyways, what projects did you do?

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 18:45:50 2014 No.230492 >>227548 read that one article on joelonsoftware about "why cant programmers program" or something. he uses the fizzbuzz test to weed out 9/10 people before the interview. Yes its that bad!

Anonymous Fri Mar 21 19:05:20 2014 No.230521 [DELETED]

>>230460
>windows

Most students use Windows, but that's a personal choice since most assignments are designed to be platform independent (and they always recommend cross-platform development tools). This is partially because...

>macs

Even at places like Stanford, programming professors often use Macbooks in class. I think it has something to do with the terminal being easy to use.

>230486

A half-finished chess engine, about 30 solutions to Project Euler problems, a bunch of tiny programs for verifying homework solutions/just messing around, and (the code that I sent them), a test of a proposed method to reduce writes to NOR SLC flash cells (flash cells can only be written to a limited number of times before they stop working).

I was surprised with how good the “random data” results were when compared to regular over-provisioning, but the method was weak to certain write patterns.

Anonymous Fri Mar 21 19:08:20 2014 No.230525

>>230460
>windows

Most students use Windows, but that's a personal choice since most assignments are designed to be platform independent (and they always recommend cross-platform development tools). This is partially because...

>macs

Even at places like Stanford, programming professors often use Macbooks in class. I think it has something to do with the terminal being easy to use.

>>230486

A half-finished chess engine, about 30 solutions to Project Euler problems, a bunch of tiny programs for verifying homework solutions/just messing around, and (the code that I sent them), a test of a proposed method to reduce writes to NOR SLC flash cells (flash cells can only be written to a limited number of times before they stop working).

I was surprised with how good the “random data” results were when compared to regular over-provisioning, but the method was weak to certain write patterns.

>>	Anonymous Fri Mar 21 19:20:20 2014 No.230537 >>230525 Oh. My uni's cs program always uses unix. There was even a class about unix shit along with C++ coding.

>>	Anonymous Sat Mar 22 18:22:43 2014 No.232484 >>226025 cuz /biz/ is jealous

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