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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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22348673 No.22348673 [Reply] [Original]

Schiff's son is buying Bitcoin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh0jolX_tR0&ab_channel=PeterSchiff

Listen from 25:18

*Breathes in*


AHAHAHHAAHHAHHAHAHA

>> No.22348755

Smart boy, will be richer than his father

>> No.22348756

why does he hate crypto so much?
is it because he missed out on early btc and eth and still has to be a shill for gold corporations?

>> No.22348797
File: 171 KB, 1920x1078, peter.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22348797

>>22348756

>> No.22348908

>>22348756

He says an unlimited number of crypto currencies can be created, thus it is not limited in supply.

>> No.22348913

i dont get why he is hating so much on bitcoin. its basically like gold. but digital. sure you dont have the muh thousands of years gold was worth something meme. most our live is digital and it will be even more in the future. imho he is a moron.

>> No.22349066

>>22348913

NOOOO!!! GO TO SCHIFFGOLD.COM AND BUY INTO MY MINING STOCKS FUND BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!

>> No.22349283

>>22348756
bitcoin and precious metals are the same but at the same time complete opposites, gold and silver have been in use for thousands of years but bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies only a handful of years. He's just betting on the old and reliable horse while his son is getting a ride on the electric car

>> No.22349340

>>22348797

Gold is $1900 now so that picture doesn't add up.

>> No.22349433

>>22348756
>why does he hate crypto so much?
i don't think he understands it. he only ever talks about bitcoin and currency use case

>> No.22350035

>>22348908
are you serious? he must be fudding.

>> No.22350537

>>22349433
He's mentioned chainlink by name on 2 of his past 4 episodes. But yes he focuses on BTC because it is the only crypto that is already 'complete' and fills its role, being an alternative currency. Everything else is a project with a team or trying to achieve something. BTC doesn't try to achieve anything. It already is what it is. This makes it the most important project in crypto and is the reason it is the highest MC. It also makes it very similar to gold in that it has a limited supply and is well known for being an alternative to fiat. So its only natural that a friendly gold merchant discusses btc the most.

But yes he is a boomer and he should have bought at least a suicide stack of BTC when it was $1.

>> No.22350634

>>22350537
BTC has no use case, is not a store of value, does not act like gold (has no liquidity), and isn't going to be used in the future because it fills no niche better than any of the other crypto projects.

Schiff explicitly says the only reason BTC is seen as having value is because it was (esentially) the first to market. He's right, and that sort of thing a long-term investment does not make.

>> No.22350898

>>22350634
You are never going to make it

>> No.22351060

>>22348908
It's true though. Just look at all the shit coins and forks out there. We even have BSV that says it is the real bitcoin. You thing any of these shit coins are going to be mass adopted? You're delusional

>> No.22351198

Does Schiff ever talk about silver, or he is just strictly a gold guy?

>> No.22351944

his son kinda sounds like a little bitch, although this is true for pretty much any teenage that has "social media", and anyone named "spencer".

>> No.22351968

>>22351198
He buys silver too.

>> No.22351972

>>22351198

he mostly talks about silver by proxy with gold, but he did mention it a lot when the silver:gold ratio was over 100:1.

>> No.22352037

>>22350634
A store of value is a substantially important use case, especially now. It doesn't fucking have to be a global currency AND a fucking store of value. Though with future technologies it may even take on that role too, but it doesn't fucking need to.

You have only scratched the surface of cryptocurrency. It's much more fascinating than you think it is. Take the time to fall down the rabbit hole a bit and get back to us.

>> No.22352095

Go schiff bitcoin somewhere else

>> No.22352227

>>22348756
>is it because he missed out on early btc
That pretty much describes /biz/ hating BTC

>> No.22352294

the problem bitcoin has is there's nothing to really make it distinct from the millions of other shitcoins out there, other than the adoption it has by being the first one. in this sense it's very similar to fiat, although the decree is coming from the userbase, rather than the government. while that may be preferable, the idea that divisible virtual numbers will be a store of value is pretty absurd.

>> No.22352324

LMAO even his son knows he's full of shit.

>> No.22352391

>>22349340
Also bitcoin is $10k so who cares it's still funny

>> No.22352675

>>22352294
The fact that the value is determined by decentralized consensus is literally the defining feature, so no it isn't similar to fiat at all. Not to mention that infinite divisibility has no effect on the absolutely fixed monetary base, so in that regard it is also completely different from fiat. In fact it is absolutely hard money, more so than even gold, which has an expanding monetary base.

>> No.22352755
File: 423 KB, 802x506, btcprice.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22352755

>>22348756

Schiff understands that the only use-case of Bitcoin is to serve as an alternative to gold. People speculate on Bitcoin because they have the delusional hope that it will become the new system of money, and go 100x. But either Bitcoin or gold is going to win; you can't have both. And if it is gold which becomes the new system of money, and it obviously will, which is why central banks are hoarding it, then nobody will be stupid enough to trade their gold for Bitcoin after the reset. Schiff doesn't want people to lose everything when the reset takes place. He is especially insistent because the Bitcoin bubble has already burst, so it isn't even intelligent to speculate on it any more; especially when you have junior mining stocks, for example. BTC is a range-bound dead end at this point. Only Twitter moonboys and ignorant boomers are keeping it alive.

Bitcoin is only here as we transition from the old system of money into the new. People buy it as a hedge against inflation. Once fiat is gone, Bitcoin serves no purpose.

Schiff could make a far better case against Bitcoin if he knew more about it. I doubt he's aware quite how useless it is. Even if the LN, which is perpetually "two years away" was widely implemented, BTC would only be usable by 0.1% of the world's population. BTC requires second-layer solutions which track and trace everything you do. Hence it doesn't even serve the purpose of privacy. This is why Mike Hearn left the project in disgust.

https://blog.plan99.net/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7

BTC looks even worse when you consider the fact that Satoshi is almost certainly Adam Back, the head of Blockstream. It would make perfect sense to me that crypto was designed as a scam from the beginning; as another way, besides the COMEX, to suppress the price of gold, by deluding people away from real money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfcvX0P1b5g

As BTC is a scam, every other crypto is simply a scam-derivative.

>> No.22352839

>>22352294
Look up the first mover advantage. Look up the market cap of Bitcoin relative to other coins (I'm not a bitcoin maximalist btw).

>the idea that divisible virtual numbers will be a store of value is pretty absurd.

The world is moving increasingly digital and at a terrifying pace. Many people have gold but they keep it in vaults or by trading gold ETF's - in this sense, they are simply virtual numbers. But Bitcoin isn't about being a simple digital number. It's about the amazing technology that allows it to be a decentralized, immutable, eternal blockchain. Take time to research the technology behind it, it's fun.

>> No.22352938

>>22352839

>>BTC is about the amazing technology that allows it to be a decentralized, immutable, eternal blockchain

Decentralized, immutable, eternal--and capable of accomplishing absolutely nothing.

>> No.22353005

>>22352755
stop posting the same retarded nonsense lol.

>> No.22353201

>>22352294
>the problem bitcoin has is there's nothing to really make it distinct from the millions of other shitcoins out there, other than the adoption it has by being the first one.
That's not a problem, that's literally the strongest argument it has going for it. It was first, it has brand recognition. Necessary properties for a new store of value. There needs to be mass consensus that it's inherently valuable or it becomes just another poser shitcoin, like all your other 'muh tech' 'muh tps' wannabe BTC usurpers.

>> No.22353209
File: 248 KB, 2560x1440, btc.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22353209

>>22353005

>> No.22353259

>>22350634
Lol, you can stop your retarded predictions, reality already has proven you wrong.

>> No.22353320

>>22353201

First adoption for what purpose? You can't use BTC to transact. It's a dead-end which requires second-layer solutions to function. This has been known for years. If BTC was going to succeed, it would have been in the form of BCH, but BCH itself keeps forking and fragmenting and in-fighting.

>> No.22353346

>>22352938
Your post is a non sequitur lol.

>> No.22353361

>>22353209
>compares a 1M graph to a 1Y graph

You're a fucking dropout loser aren't you

>> No.22353375

>>22352294
You're really writing against established facts and reality. What about market cap? This alone makes btc the first choice for wealth storage. Ffs there are regulated exchanges starting to offer btc investments to normies with insurance against getting hacked and without the need to open a wallet. This is starting right now and 10k will be cape canaveral.

>> No.22353402

>>22353346

How's that? When BTC got to $15,000 in 2017, it broke down into requiring $100-dollar transaction fees and 3-day waiting times. Mike Hearn's post was completely vindicated (>>22352755), and the price collapsed shortly thereafter. BTC is unusable as a currency, unless you spoil the alleged use-case by introducing clunky second-layers which destroy privacy. So which part of my post doesn't follow?

>> No.22353425

>>22353209
Absolute cringe and low iq post

>> No.22353489
File: 271 KB, 2560x1440, btc2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22353489

>>22353361

>> No.22353511

>>22353425
>>22353361
>>22353005

Low intellect Bitcoin bagholders.

>> No.22353594

>>22353402
You listed things that Bitcoin does (which are not easy to do, Bitcoin had to invent them), and then you said it does nothing.

A store of value, yes, you've got it. That's a use case. A pretty large one considering how many trillions are in gold? Look at how the upcoming generations think about crypto compared to gold, look at those studies. Look at inflation. Look at other currencies and their currencies. Look at institutional wealth starting to create funds dedicated to Bitcoin (Fidelity, Paul Tudor Jones, JPMorgan). Do the math. If you'd rather store your money in gold then put it in gold. Gold is great. Gold is not the future.

As for being a global currency, fuck, that's possible to with future technologies, but it doesn't need to be that as well.

>> No.22353601

>>22348908
I can go scribble on a piece of paper and say its backed by something too, not sure what his point is with that line of thinking

>> No.22353624

>>22353594
*other countries and their currencies (geopolitics)

>> No.22353661

His fud is pretty good, to be honest. I was all in on btc a few years ago, but have been slowly divesting in favor of gold. Schiff may be wrong about bitcoin but he is absolutely right about gold.

>> No.22353793

>>22353209
you have no fucking idea how much money i made since 2010 in btc lmao
if i had bought gold i would still be working a regular job right now
have fun with your meme images though.

>> No.22353817

>>22353489
LMAO REKT

>> No.22353867

>>22353661
there's nothing wrong with gold but it's not going to revolutionize payment, far from it we already used it for 1000s of years. govt can easily seize all your gold for their vaults which they will do if they decide to go to a gold backed system again. nobody is ever going to do business with gold, a gold backed dollar is the logical conclusion of gold. in fact if gold ever factors into the picture it will be in a gold backed cryptocurrency issued by the central banks

>> No.22353947

>>22353594

>>A store of value, yes, you've got it. That's a use case.

What value is there to store if Bitcoin doesn't function as a currency?

>>Look at institutional wealth starting to create funds dedicated to Bitcoin (Fidelity, Paul Tudor Jones, JPMorgan).

Nobody cares about Bitcoin. There is no institutional investment. Tudor Jones is a rare exception to the rule, and even he only put 1% into it as a gamble; almost all his inflation-hedge is in gold and gold stocks. BTC market cap is 150 billion, that of gold is 10 trillion. BTC is simply a non-entity. Central banks are hoarding gold, not Bitcoin, in preparation for the reset, and that is what will become the new money of the world. Not even intelligent people in the crypto-world care about Bitcoin. It's widely regarded as a joke.

>>Gold is not the future.

We can easily make a gold-backed crypto, and break gold down into as small fragments as satoshis (look into Goldmoney/Bitgold). BTC and other "thin-air" cryptos are irrelevant to the future of money. There are 5000 of them, and you could make 5000 more if you so chose. Gold is the only thing which you can't print. It is God's money, what money has been since the dawn of civilization, has enormous real-world utility, and has all the properties to serve as money.

>>22353867

>>govt can easily seize all your gold for their vaults

Overseas bullion was not seized in 1933, only domestic coinage. If you put your bullion in Switzerland or Singapore, it is perfectly safe. Anybody who has crypto, on the other hand, is at risk of losing everything to:

Memory-loss
Burglary
Natural disaster
Torture
Institutional failure

>> No.22354051
File: 228 KB, 1853x885, spina.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22354051

>>22353793

Many gold-enthusiasts, like Peter Spina, made an enormous amount of money on Bitcoin during the bull run. The difference between you and them is that they had the foresight to know when to get out.

>> No.22354053

>>22353947
>If you put your bullion in Switzerland or Singapore, it is perfectly safe
yeah, if you trust them to hold it, and can maintain communications with those remote regions. what if a war broke out in one of those countries you dumb short sighted faggot? nah i think i'll be over here with my immutable decentralized ledger
also, all the gold i have, is right here with me. you don't hold it you don't own it. bullion in a reserve somewhere is fiat with extra steps.

>> No.22354111

>>22354051
it's like you can't read. i didn't 'make money on the bull run'. i made ALOT of money. fuck you money. gold would never make me that in 50000 years. fuck you faggots are tiring me out. ima head out

>> No.22354179

>>22354053

Switzerland has never banned or confiscated gold. The country's economy depends on gold. It will never kill the goose that laid the golden egg. And if you think that Switzerland could ever be conquered, present us with any plausible situation which would be worse than that in which Switzerland found itself during World War Two.

>> No.22354253
File: 117 KB, 577x858, 6A222864-8366-42BB-A986-89C1C1D34069.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22354253

>>22348673
Why do you listen to this obnoxious Jew idiot and shill him here?
Every assertion the guy makes is like broken clock. For ten years before and after the 08 financial crisis he said the economy would crash. He told everyone to stay out of stocks and buy gold after 08.

Follow Peter Thiel. Buy RSR.

>> No.22354402

>>22349066
I own tons of mining stocks and I already made lots of money. Going to make lots more

>> No.22354433

>>22354111

>>it's like you can't read.

My post:

"Many gold-enthusiasts, like Peter Spina, made an enormous amount of money"

>enormous

>>"i didn't 'make money on the bull run'. i made ALOT of money.

>>it's like you can't read.

>> No.22354633

>>22348673
Peter Shit started bashing btc in 2012. This guy missed a 1000x run and made a lot of people lose money. Just look for the opinion of his clients on him.

He missed the pump on btc, missed on altcoins, missed on tech stocks and his precious gold took 9 years to reach ATH.

He is rich only because there is a bunch of retards who likes to lose money on his funds.

>> No.22354654

>>22353947
>What value is there to store if Bitcoin doesn't function as a currency?

Gold doesn't function as a currency. This is 101 stuff.

>Nobody cares about Bitcoin.
That's part of my argument. Is gold going to 100x anytime soon? Nope. Imagine getting in gold when it was 11 years old.

>Gold is not the future.
Look at the studies on younger generations and how they feel about gold and crypto. Look at the upcoming generational wealth transfer from boomers to millenials. Look at Schiff's latest tweet regarding his son and bitcoin. The writing is on the wall. Institutional wealth is just now starting to take crypto seriously. What WAS a joke, is now something that the biggest banks and wealth managers are no longer joking about.

I don't dislike gold. But gold is NOT the future based on all the factual metrics we can see today. You are early, so don't be obtuse.

https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/FDAS/bitinvthessisstoreofvalue.pdf

>> No.22354702

>>22348673
>BITCOIN WILL NEVER BE MONEY EVER
Holy shit just imagine his small mind if he ever learns of alt coins.

>> No.22354808

>>22352755
>only use-case of Bitcoin is to serve as an alternative to gold
I have a gold bar in my living room. Just like bitcoin I can send my gold bar immediately to anyone with a computer for about $5. It's def just an alternative to gold lmao completely the same!

>> No.22354914

>>22354253
Schiff is literally right about everything.
The US dollar is going to crash.

>> No.22354939
File: 460 KB, 2500x1500, goldscam.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
22354939

>>22354654

>Gold doesn't function as a currency. This is 101 stuff.

I can't help but laugh to hear you say this. Gold _was_ the currency for 5,000 years, precisely because it functions so well as money. In the modern digital era, it would work in both of two ways:

1) Governments backing their official currencies with gold, and allowing for redemption for gold in fiat notes;

2) Gold-backed cryptos like Andrew Maguire's Kinesis or James Turk's GoldMoney, which allow you to buy a cup of coffee with gold, and break it down into as small fragments as satoshis. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjqzyqRz_Mc&ab_channel=Goldmoney))

>>22354654

>>That's part of my argument. Is gold going to 100x anytime soon? Nope. Imagine getting in gold when it was 11 years old.

When the reset happens, gold is going to $50,000 to account for the money-supply. As for silver, we can hardly imagine what that is going to do. Mining stocks will be going 100-400x. That's good enough for me. No need to gamble on thin-air cryptocurrencies which will have no purpose in the new monetary order.

>>gold is NOT the future based on all the factual metrics we can see today.

See my picture. It's gold which central banks are hoarding, not crypto. Everybody knows that Bitcoin is a joke except for the small cult of ignorant boomers who buy it from the moonboy pump-and-dumpers.

>> No.22354958

Spencer only bought $400 worth of bitcoin.

IT'S LITERALLY NOTHING

>> No.22355021

>>22354633

>>Peter Shit started bashing btc in 2012. This guy missed a 1000x run and made a lot of people lose money. Just look for the opinion of his clients on him.

All the people who gamble on crypto and tech stocks, without getting out in time, are going to be wiped out, and Schiff will have the last laugh. That's what matters. If you're foolish enough to buy a bubble, you sometimes get lucky enough to sell before it collapses on your head; but, generally speaking, those who are foolish enough to buy bubbles in the first place are also foolish enough to stay in them. See the Bitcoin fanaticism in this thread as an example.

>> No.22355087

>>22354633
The US dollar will collapse
Peter was right.

>> No.22355316

>>22354939
>Gold _was_ the currency for 5,000 years
Do you think I don't know that. It needs a currency in front of it to be divisible. It's a store of value not a currency.

If there is a "great reset", which won't be anytime soon due to the geopolitical landscape, the money that will pour into Bitcoin will dwarf gold exponentially. Market caps. Basic arithmetic.

>> No.22355417

>>22355021
How many decades it will take for this last laught? The guy will probably be dead when it happens if it will ever happen.

Crypto and tech stocks offers life changing oportunities while muh gold takes years to do a 2X.

>> No.22355426

>>22355316

>>Do you think I don't know that. It needs a currency in front of it to be divisible. It's a store of value not a currency.

This is not true. People carried gold and silver coins with them for thousands of years. They circulated as currency. Bank-notes are a thing of more recent origin, and even in modern times they were not always an exclusive medium of transaction.

>>If there is a "great reset", which won't be anytime soon due to the geopolitical landscape, the money that will pour into Bitcoin will dwarf gold exponentially. Market caps. Basic arithmetic.

We've already seen that people panic and flee out of Bitcoin as soon as the markets show even a hint of collapsing. This has happened on multiple occasions now. In March, BTC crashed to $4000, while gold held its own. BTC is speculative dross which is intended to scam people in a $3000-$12,000 pump-and-dump range-boundary. It will never amount to anything more. It's broken as a currency, and even cryptocurrency is broken as a concept. BTC will never exceed its current market-cap, because the number of minds gullible enough to believe in the scam reached its peak in 2017, and can only decline from now onwards.

>> No.22355456

>>22355417

My mining stock choices have already gone 10x. Look at Discovery Metals, Vizsla Resources, Freegold Ventures. Crypto people are completely ignorant of what mining stocks are capable of. When silver doubled between '62 and '68, the average small-cap silver penny stock went up 150x. You'll be lucky if BTC even doubles or holds its own before it collapses to zero.

>> No.22355670

>>22355456
Buy Aurcana

>> No.22355759

>>22355426
>he missed link
>he missed snx
>he missed yfi

imagine shilling FUCKING METALS LMFAO

>just put your gold in switzerland bro

absolutely pathetic goldbug cope

>> No.22355762

>>22355426
>Coins
Yes, I get it, can't go back can we. We are digitizing, super fast.

It's volatile, yes. It's also in its infancy. It is a speculative asset at this point and not a currency, which many people don't understand. However the upside is insane for many of the facts that I mentioned and you haven't responded to. If your argument is "scam" you are not giving Bitcoin it's fair due. I listen to Schiff a lot, but he is dead wrong on Bitcoin.

>> No.22356093

>>22350634
Fuck off Schiff. Can’t wait until $1,000,000 so I can buy Euro Pacific and fire your candy ass.

>> No.22356154

>>22355762

The upside on mining stocks is so vast (400x+ gains) that I don't feel the slightest need to gamble on crypto, which I know can only go up on the basis of the greater fool theory, and never as a value-investment.

So far as I'm concerned, I _have_ answered all your points; I don't see that you have answered many of mine. I have made numerous posts in this thread, for example, about gold-backed crypto, and your response is:

>Coins
>Yes, I get it, can't go back can we. We are digitizing, super fast.

As if those posts of mine don't exist. So, perhaps we have simply said everything that we have to say on the matter, and shall have to agree to disagree.

>> No.22356236

>>22348673
Real talk biz, will Bitcoin really 10x? I don't wanna live a life tied to work anymore.

>> No.22356291

>>22356236

I promise you it won't. It probably won't even double, it will just collapse. Read my posts in this thread to know my opinion as to why. Buy mining stocks. GDXJ and SILJ are the Vanguard ETFs. In the '01-'11 PM bull market, the index of gold stocks went up 1700%, and that's _all_ gold stocks, including the bad ones. No need to gamble on crypto when you have a sure thing.

>> No.22356402

>>22356154
My points are:
>Market cap (insignificant relative to gold). Bitcoin in its infancy. This means realistic 400x gains.
>Younger generations not interested in gold, are interested in crypto (boomer to millenial wealth transfer will be momentously bullish for crypto and bearish for gold).
>Institutional investments opening bitcoin funds, not dismissing bitcoin anymore
>People enjoy Bitcoin because they are fascinated by technology, this is what you're not getting.

All of these are objectively true.

>> No.22356589

>>22356402

>>>Market cap (insignificant relative to gold). Bitcoin in its infancy. This means realistic 400x gains.

Market cap of Bitcoin means nothing if Bitcoin is broken as a currency and has no use-case, as I have shown in this thread. Reductio ad absurdum: Anybody with a lower market cap than any other crypto could make the same argument which you make for BTC in relation to gold.

ETH-holder: "Look; BTC's market cap is 5x larger than ours! Buy us now to make 5x gains!"

Chainlink-holder: "Look; ETH's market cap is 10x larger than ours! Buy us now to make 10x gains!"

etc., etc.

>>Younger generations not interested in gold, are interested in crypto

This is increasingly changing, and will continue to change as young people come to understand the colossal potential in mining stocks. Have you not noticed, for example, the increasing popularity of /pmg/ and /pmg/-related threads, even on /biz/. Young people not caring about gold is mostly a boomer talking-point. See what Lobo Tiggre has to say about this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20Co9ZxYa6A&ab_channel=KitcoNEWS

>>Institutional investments opening bitcoin funds

BTC market cap has not increased in 3 years, so we know that institutions _aren't_ getting involved, a priori.

>>People enjoy Bitcoin because they are fascinated by technology

And yet everybody who is really passionate about crypto hates BTC with an even greater passion and knows that it is a joke. All the original BTC people (like Mike Hearn and Gavin Andresen) have left to start other projects, or quit the crypto-space altogether. I implore you to read Mike Hearn's post if you haven't done so already, because nothing has changed since the time when he wrote it.

https://blog.plan99.net/the-resolution-of-the-bitcoin-experiment-dabb30201f7

>> No.22356744

>>22353489
based and gold-pilled
how can bitcoin fags cope with this fact?

>> No.22357167

>>22348673
uhm.. based son

>> No.22357207

>>22355762
This, 100%

>> No.22357230

>>22348673
Let’s get him to buy RSR

>> No.22357247

>>22355426
Well we saw venezoleans buying btc as their currency was inflated. What now? I don't get what you want with your rampage of 17 posts all giving basically the same arumentation.

>> No.22357360

>>22357247

Can you show us that Venezuelans preferred cryptocurrency to precious metals? PMs have been an extremely popular method of wealth-preservation in Venezuela.

This is what is going on in Turkey right now:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/turkey-hit-bank-runs-currency-panic-locals-sell-their-cars-and-houses-buy-gold-while-lira

"Turkey Hit By Bank Runs, Currency Panic As Locals Sell Their Cars And Houses To Buy Gold While Lira Implodes"

...

"As Reuters reports, Hasan Ayhan followed his wife’s instructions last week and took their savings to buy gold at Istanbul’s Grand Bazaar as Turks scooped up bullion worth $7 billion in a just a fortnight while their currency went up in flames.

The retired police officer, hit by vivid memories of the 2018 currency crisis which saw the Lira lose 30% of its value virtually overnight, was among those playing it safe as he queued in the city’s sprawling covered market, where a screen showed the gold price rise by one Turkish lira ($0.1366) in just 10 minutes.

What's more, it now appears that locals are choosing gold over the dollar, perhaps because the dollar has also been tumbling against gold in recent weeks due to the Fed's overt attempts to debase the greenback.

"I think it is the best investment right now so I converted my dollars to buy gold," the 57-year-old said, adding: "I might withdraw my lira and buy gold with it too, but I am scared to go to the bank right now because of coronavirus."

Well, Hasan, for people in Turkey it is the best investment, but there is a rather high chance that Erdo pulls an FDR and makes it illegal for anyone in Turkey to own gold so you and your fellow countrymen may want to have a series of unfortunate boating accidents in the coming weeks.

(1/2)

>> No.22357391

>>22357360

"In any case, the day after Ayhan bought his gold on Aug 6, the lira hit a historic low and has continued to slide, laying bare concerns that Turkey’s reserves have been depleted by market interventions, which are showing signs of fizzling out, even as the central bank and president flood the local airwaves with fake news about monetary stability and urge locals to keep their money in lira.

Only this time it's not working: turks have traditionally used gold as savings and there may be as much as 5,000 tonnes of it "under mattresses", with more added after the recent buying spree, Mehmet Ali Yildirimturk, deputy head of an Istanbul gold shops association, said.

And although gold has never been more expensive - in either lira or dollar terms - vendors at Istanbul's Grand Bazaar said almost no one is coming to sell their gold jewellery. There are only buyers.

"I’ve been chatting with hundreds of people who are thinking about selling their cars or houses to invest in gold," said Gunay Gunes, whose busy booth is near the market’s entrance."

Putting the recent gold-buying frenzy in context, in just the last three weeks, as selling gripped the lira local holdings of hard assets such as dollars and gold jumped $15 billion to a record of nearly $220 billion, making a mockery of the central bank's attempts to halt the currency slide.

...

"Locals don’t want to keep Turkish lira, they’ve been dollarizing and buying gold. Turks have hardly ever done that historically," said Shamaila Khan, New York-based head of EM debt strategy at AllianceBernstein. "That is why you need proactive policies because if you get to that stage where locals are unwilling to keep their money in the bank then you’re heading to a balance of payments crisis. That’s when the alarm bells will start ringing.""

(2/2)

>> No.22357511

>>22357391

P. S. I'd add to this, Venezuela is a localized instance of collapse; but when the dollar itself collapses, that is when you will see cryptos go to zero. Every time the system itself seems to be breaking down (as in March), BTC flash crashes to a fraction of its price. BTC is a scam propped up by speculation + fraudulent Tether-printing. It relies on our current financial system to function. While that system survives, you may see some crypto-buying in countries which have had financial difficulties; but only in the same way as these countries often buy dollars in such situations; and dollars, also, will ultimately be going to zero.

>> No.22357543

>>22357511
bro you are on /biz/
everyone here in 2018 is up 100x
metalfags are up 1.5x

get the fuck out of here LMFAO

>> No.22357606

>>22356589
Bitcoin doesn't need to be a global currency AND a fucking store of value. A store of value is a use case. The market cap relative to gold is peanuts. Which leads us to....

Where are younger generations going to be storing their value? Gold? No, this is objectively not the case. There is institutional wealth that sees this already TODAY. It is the store of value of the future. Currency would be just icing on the cake.

>This is increasingly changing, and will continue to change as young people come to understand the colossal potential in mining stocks. Have you not noticed, for example, the increasing popularity of /pmg/ and /pmg/-related threads, even on /biz/. Young people not caring about gold is mostly a boomer talking-point. See what Lobo Tiggre has to say about this.

No, this is in your head. If you want to talk about /biz/ threads, look at the amount of crypto threads.

>BTC market cap has not increased in 3 years, so we know that institutions _aren't_ getting involved, a priori.

Give it time my man. 11 years old.

>Reductio ad absurdum
>a priori
Lol you talk like me

>> No.22357639

>>22357360
>>22357391
You don't get it. Most people that replied to you didn't even argue against gold. I own pms myself, but your argumentation against btc is flawed thoroughly. You fear btc will draw fundings that would have gone into gold or what is the sense of your low iq rampage? People should have stopped replying to you when you posted the gold chart with the btc month chart. You are apparently not well informed and at the same time overly convinced from your opinion which you would to teach to anyone. Btc belongs to the hardest assets on earth with pre defined scarcity. People paying money to own it is basically already the counter-evidence to most of your arguments.

>> No.22357823

>>22357543

You obviously weren't here for the wall of angry Wojacks when people got wiped out by crypto in 2017. But people like you don't care about all the poor people who suffered in 2017; you simply want new fools to come along and hold your bags for you.

>>22357606

>>Bitcoin doesn't need to be a global currency AND a fucking store of value. A store of value is a use case. The market cap relative to gold is peanuts. Which leads us to....

As we have been over time and time again, you can't have a store of value when there is no value to store.

>>Where are younger generations going to be storing their value? Gold? No, this is objectively not the case. There is institutional wealth that sees this already TODAY. It is the store of value of the future. Currency would be just icing on the cake.

As we have been over time and time again, the low market cap of Bitcoin proves that there is no genuine institutional interest.

>>22357639

>>Btc belongs to the hardest assets on earth with pre defined scarcity. People paying money to own it is basically already the counter-evidence to most of your arguments.

People buy BTC for one reason: Because they want to sell it to somebody else for a greater price. It's just like TSLA with its 1000 P. E. BTC always collapses when TSLA collapses, because both phenomena can only survive in the dollarized, easy-money, high-speculation environment created by the Fed. Nobody but a fool really believes that BTC has any other use-case than to scam ignorant boomers with a $3000-$12,000 pump-and-dump boundary-range. That's why, when people begin to fear that the system itself is collapsing, BTC always collapses towards zero: because, deep down, we all know that it has no genuine value.

>> No.22358061

>>22357823
Lol, exactly not. People buy it as wealth storage, as numerous anons above tried to explain to you above. I see that cryptos may be sth new to you which makes you feel anxious, but it's basically not so far away from gold, only that it's a purely digital signature represented on a decentralized. Even after ww3 there will still be a pc with a full node and the chain continues. Stop your rampage and rather get your suicide stack fren.

>> No.22358137

>>22357823
>As we have been over time and time again, the low market cap of Bitcoin proves that there is no genuine institutional interest.

Do you expect a potential store of value that is 11 years old to reach gold levels? And yet it's already at 200 billion in 11 years.

>As we have been over time and time again, the low market cap of Bitcoin proves that there is no genuine institutional interest.

You didn't respond to the fact that millenials don't give a fuck about gold and don't invest in it. This is a fact. Institutional wealth is no longer laughing, this is a fact.

>People buy BTC for one reason
This is technically true of any derivative. To make money. I didn't buy bitcoin until I fell in love with the technology, which is revolutionary.

Read this:

https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/FDAS/bitinvthessisstoreofvalue.pdf

"Head of Global Research articulated the rationale for investing in bitcoin in their May 2020 investor
letter, “The Great Monetary Inflation.” The Tudor Investments team scored financial assets, fiat cash,
gold and bitcoin based on four characteristics that define store of value assets – purchasing power,
trustworthiness, liquidity, portability. Bitcoin’s score was 60% of the score of financial assets, but
1/1200th of the market cap of financial assets and it was 66% of the score of gold, but 1/60th of the
market cap, concluding, “Something appears to be wrong here and my guess is that it’s the price of
Bitcoin.”

>> No.22358180

>>22358061

>>People buy it as wealth storage

You can only store wealth if there is wealth to store. BTC accomplishes nothing. Even if you believe in thin-air, or non-gold-backed crypto as an idea (and I don't), BTC fails on every count. Whether as an actual currency (see BCH) or on the score of privacy (see Monero).

>> No.22358409

>>22358137

>>Do you expect a potential store of value that is 11 years old to reach gold levels?

200 billion must be fresh in your mind from the recent pump. It's less than 150 billion, actually. And it has been range-bound ever since the crypto bubble popped in 2017.

>>You didn't respond to the fact that millenials don't give a fuck about gold and don't invest in it. This is a fact. Institutional wealth is no longer laughing, this is a fact.

I showed you a video where Lobo Tiggre talks about his exact issue at length. >>22356589 The fact that miners and ETFs are becoming increasingly popular on Robinhood, the fact even that PMs are becoming increasingly popular on /biz/, which is a fact which you can verify with your own eyes every day, shows this not to be the case. Crypto market caps are stagnant. Where is the fresh blood?

>>I didn't buy bitcoin until I fell in love with the technology, which is revolutionary.

You seemingly don't know the first thing about BTC, otherwise how could you possibly say this. As I have pointed out, it's so useless that, even with the LN, you couldn't service more than 0.1% of the world's population. In 2017, you had $100 fees. BTC is built to require second-layer solutions which destroy privacy. That's why alt-coins keep rising in relative market cap, year after year. I'll quote from Mike Hearn: >>22352755

"Think about it. If you had never heard about Bitcoin before, would you care about a payments network that:

Couldn’t move your existing money

Had wildly unpredictable fees that were high and rising fast

Allowed buyers to take back payments they’d made after walking out of shops, by simply pressing a button (if you aren’t aware of this “feature” that’s because Bitcoin was only just changed to allow it)

Is suffering large backlogs and flaky payments

which is controlled by China

… and in which the companies and people building it were in open civil war?

I’m going to hazard a guess that the answer is no."

>> No.22358411

>>22357823
I sure was, and I bought link. Had I bought metals I'd still be poor.

Cope more boomer

>> No.22358545

>>22358411

Any good small-cap miner has vastly outperformed Link by now. The difference is that Link-holders are going to keep holding their investment to the bottom, while the mining investment will keep going up for the next ten years. By the way, there was no objectively good reason for Link to go up in the first place. It just goes to show what meme magic imposing on ignorant people + a short squeeze on Zeus Capital was capable of.

>> No.22358710

>>22358180
Literally any store of wealth is sth people consider it to be. As you're advocating gold strongly, one could ask if you can eat it or if therefore its perceived wealth storage function maybe unjustified. But you will come around the corner againg with your argument that it was that way a thousand years...which boils it down quite simply: It's something new, you don't trust it, which is ok, but apart from that you're lacking arguments completely. We're just moving in circles with you.

>> No.22358858

>>22358409
Show me where you see 150b. Even if it's 150 billion. Yeah, exactly, it's 150 fucking billion - in 11 years!

>It's popped
It's also fucking retraced to half of it's ATH. Not bad considering it used to be at zero and anyone that bought before the bull run and fucking held is rich. The highest appreciating asset ever conceived.

>Mining stocks
I don't even know how to respond to this. If you legitimately think that mining stocks are the future and are going to outperform cryptocurrency you are completely delusional. Your finger is not on the pulse of where we are going. The future is digital. Full stop. Young people don't care about gold like they care about crypto. Show me a chart that shows younger generations flooding into mining stocks or gold. It's comical. Crypto - that's all young money.

I'm not going to respond to straw man arguments, I am conceding that Bitcoin is not used as a currency. That was never my argument and you are obsessed with it. I don't give a fuck, again it doesn't have to be the global currency and a fucking store of value. One of those things is enough.

>> No.22358948

>>22358545
imagine being this retarded
I cant even

miners are still shit but will probably go up, but there is no world in which gold moons and bitcoin doesn't. I'm dabbing on you now and will continue to dab on you in the future. Imagine thinking defi is going to do away so that people can trade metals (or paper metal derivatives) back and forth.

COPE MORE

>> No.22359146

>>22358948
I don't think he's retarded, desu i'm bullish on both gold and btc. They can coexist. It's pointless to argue if miners or a random crypto performs better. I just don't see any argument brought up that could stand against crypto.

>> No.22359175

>>22359146
I think gold is OK for wealth preservation, but if you're under 50 and not all in on smart contracts while browsing /biz/ you are literally too fucking stupid to live.

>> No.22359577

>>22359175
I don't share your opinion at all fren. I completely agree on legit wealth storage function of crypto, but concerning defi and smart contracts i did my research believe, that's the biggest meme out there at the moment. Underage link buyers completely lack the ability to judge applicability of smart contracts due to being illiterates in business processes. A few lines of code are not able to replace clearing, it would need lawyers and negotiations until two companies would agree on a self executing smart contract, the same reasons why you need clearing today basically. Apart from that no company will buy the pre inflated tokens you bought to execute simple on chain requests that can easily be handled by company interfaces / programms. Defi is vastly overestimated and will be used in niches only and certainly not to the profit of token buyers from defi projects.

>> No.22359650

>>22359577
This. Link is grossly overvalued. Data processes that need to be accurate and secure are happening constantly and they don't need to be superseded by a system of cryptocurrency insuring.

>> No.22359800

>>22359650
It is providing solutions for problems that aren't there basically. Some anon tried to convince me a few days ago that amazon would need on chain requests in chainlink network for parcel tracking. This shows hoe delusional some of these idiots are.