/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.22211383]

Why is inflation needed?

[Anonymous No.22211410]

>>22211383
to keep people slaving

[Anonymous No.22211449]

>>22211383
Because if currency is deflationary everybody will hoard their fiat and there will be no economic growth which comes from people and instutitions spending and investing their fiat.

[Anonymous No.22211460]

>>22211383
So that everything you worked for one day becomes worthless

[Anonymous No.22211469]

>>22211383
B/C everything is a lie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdLRoIXpFKU

[Anonymous No.22211527]

>>22211449
Pretty much this as I understand it. Why buy anything today if it’ll be cheaper tomorrow? Also, inb4 the JQ

[Anonymous No.22211528]

>>22211383
so stonks go up

[Anonymous No.22211583]

>>22211383
jews, unironically

[Anonymous No.22211650]

Because demand will fall off a cliff as people defer spending so they can buy things for cheaper later

[Anonymous No.22211671]

>>22211410
This

[Anonymous No.22211738]

>>22211383
Because credits get "lost" more easily than debts so debts have to be devalued to prevent lockup. It's not about "spending" and "hoarding", it's about debt trap and credit crunch

[Anonymous No.22212080]

>>22211383
So universe could finally have an ending. How long it existed, holy shit, universe is so old now.

[Anonymous No.22212181]

The idea of inflation, like PoS, is to scale a currency, so that when it sees adoption, the platform can adequately compensate the increase in traffic with more units of measure to accommodate the adoption rate.

[Anonymous No.22212282]

>>22211449
Why is there a need for constant economic growth? Why not spend on what you actually need, things like food, and be done with it?

[Anonymous No.22212327]

>>22211410
fpbp

[Anonymous No.22212347]

>>22211383
Inflation is a constant tax on savings. (((They))) want your money.

[Anonymous No.22212377]

>>22211469
Kino, next level skizo

[Anonymous No.22212393]

>>22212282
Just go and live in da woods, why the fuck you need internets and roof over your head. Just go and be done with it.

[Anonymous No.22212512]

>>22211449
the classic jew fed argument.

>>22211383
its pretty much just another way to tax people without having to confront them about it. I wouldn't consider it so if it wasnt for the fact that using any other currency in the usa other than usd was illegal. if the shit wasnt being forced to be used with violence no one would use this shit clown money.

[Anonymous No.22212551]

>>22212393
Sure, a house, internet, food, water. Wjy the constant need for economic growth though? Is a stable economy not good enough? Why does a baker need economic growth?

[Anonymous No.22212614]

>>22211383
It isn't.
>>22211449
This is verifiably untrue. Empires have historically risen with hard currency in their glory days and debased their coins when in decline. This is an illusion created by the fact that the difference between inflation and "growth" (think about how to define that objectively for a second) is a matter of CPI accounting. If you make the money in circulation number go up, all numbers go up and you can pretend that's good if the price of rice, bread and wagie cones can be kept down under control and that's what you call "inflation". Inflation exists to consolidate wealth in existing assets and mask spending away from uncomfortable taxes.

[Anonymous No.22212634]

>>22211383
Because of fractional reserve banking and debt. If the money supply isn't constantly increasing then the debts don't get paid and the system locks up.

[Anonymous No.22212643]

>>22212551
>Is a stable economy not good enough?
You want the world to stop at 2020?
You want humanity to stop progress at 2020?
You want technological progress to stop at 2020 forever?

[Anonymous No.22212651]

>>22211383
It's not. Deflation is a natural process that occurs when the price of something doesn't match the market determined value. Inflation is the opposite, the price increasing because the value is higher than the market price.

Currency manipulated inflation is justified by the increasing population and general productivity of society. Result is corruption and punishing saving.

[Anonymous No.22212687]

>>22212643
What does "growing" an economy even mean? Printing more money?

[Anonymous No.22212753]

>>22211383
The Jews in charge will tell you its so people dont hoard their cash, making them reinvest it to keep the economy growing. The NPCs will also recite this lie.
The truth is, its designed to make it impossible to become wealthy off of hard work alone. You NEED to do some Jewry to make it to multimillionaire. That way, anyone who fits the ideal worker stereotype(hardworking but doesnt think too much) will be stuck on an endless treadmill of productivity for the sake of paying off debts. The only people who will ever “make it” and exit the system are the ones who bother to learn how the system operates, who as a result, likely werent going to be very productive anyway. They are allowed to Jew their way to wealthy status as a sort of a bribe for not waking up more ideal workers to the reality of the situation.

>tl;dr: its slavery

[Anonymous No.22212794]

>>22211527
This is a fallacy assuming that people would clutch their pearls instead of interacting with the economy.

Each person would obviously make a trade if their perceived value of a good or service was higher than the value of the money/currency.

You buy a car because you need transportation. You don't wait 3 years because the price will drop 5%. You buy now because 3 years without a car is far more costly than the 5%

[Anonymous No.22212831]

>>22212614
This is retarded, inflation is not a purely monetary issue, probably only like 10% of inflation in Europe is caused by the central bank, the rest of the inflation happens because of many different reasons, such as big companies raising prices, specially companies that have a monopoly on certain goods.
The european central bank has been printing more and more money every year since the last 20 years. However inflation has substantially decreased almost every year since 2000, and the european central bank has stated many times that it's actually hard for them to make more inflation to meet their inflation targets, they print and print, but inflation keeps going down, because inflation happens because of many different reasons you're just some Austrian ancap retard that believes in cringe conspiracy theories

[Anonymous No.22212864]

>>22212687
GDP increase

[Anonymous No.22212877]

>>22211383
its not, from the early 1800s to early 1900s the dollar actually gained value

[Anonymous No.22212890]

>>22212687
When you build a house out of wood, you have transformed the wood into a more valuable item. Your labor, expertise, and materials have created value. This, across all of humanity, results in a growing economy.

Currency is just a measuring stick. Printing more doesn't add anything to the economy, just makes it harder to measure past and present value.

[Anonymous No.22212891]

>>22212643
The first 2 questions are nonsense and #3, what if I say yes? And either way, why do you need economic growth for technological progress?

[Anonymous No.22212892]

>>22212794
I was just trying to offer a simple explanation, but I don’t see how it’s a fallacy as such. Part of the intent of inflationary policy, among some of the many other good answers in this thread, is to keep money circulating rather than being hoarded. It is also a tax on savers, an incentive to invest, etc., etc..

[Anonymous No.22212940]

>>22212892
A better word would have been misconception

[Anonymous No.22212946]

>>22212891
>And either way, why do you need economic growth for technological progress
It's the other way around, technological progress makes the economy grow. If the economy is not growing that means there's not any substantial technological progress taking place

[Anonymous No.22213024]

>we need money
>issue 10 trillion dollars in bonds
>now we are 10 trillion dollars in debt how do we get rid of it
>inflate 10 trillion dollars of debt away by increasing money supply

GGEZ

[Anonymous No.22213117]

>>22212282
Because money is power. People deep down have a way and want to force their way on others. They want to feel superior to others. It's nature, you want to whip your dick out and smack it on a bunch of people and let it leave bruises down the genetic line.

If you have the ability to make people suck your dick in exchange for money, you have power right? Of course there is the "might' factor but of course you can just hire a bodyguard to correct that factor, ergo Money is the power to make people willingly do favors for you rather than through threat of violence.
Understanding this, the entire upper echelons of wealth is an endless war of people trying to have the bigger money cock. Consooming is just a distraction for the slave class that allows the big money dick holders to exist.

Think of it this way, reality is just a bunch of faggots claiming their superior, because they can get other faggots to do them favors for consooming tokens. Some of those faggots are content with consooming but others dream to have a big money cock and slap it all over their "master's" face.

TL;DR People aren't content with having no control of other people. Even the poorest of poorfags dreams of being a master of slaves.

[Anonymous No.22213131]

>>22212892
Money is an unproductive asset. People are already incentivized to invest to get a better yield.

Pushing people to spend will cause over consumption. It's like manipulating someone's appetite so that they eat more - they get fat.

[Anonymous No.22213152]

>>22212831
Oil output is dependent on the price of the dollar. In almost everything you consume the largest finite resource cost is from oil. The more true that becomes the more oil price fixing reduces the effect other factors have on inflation but price of other resources like gold still goes up, it's just not very relevant to anything you consume.

[Anonymous No.22213175]

>>22212831
So, can you explain the situation we're all in, if printing more money doesn't inflate the value of currencies?
If simply printing more IOUs doesn't inflate the value of a central currency, then why do we constantly have to raise taxes, start more wars, create social panics while the guys with big bags acquire more liquid and bomb federal buildings so the FED doesn't get audited, then what is the source of our economic hardships?

Above is the most comprehensive explanation for our current societal issues which I've come across. If you have an alternative explanation for things, and especially if you think all of what's been said so far is mere coincidence, then I'd absolutely adore you conveying where the inconsistencies arise.
No, I don't mean to be patronizing. I'm being sincere.

[Anonymous No.22213196]

>>22212890
Good analogy

>>22212864
Yeah

[Anonymous No.22213217]

>>22211383
So boomers can retire comfortably because their house prices went up.

[Anonymous No.22213251]

>>22211383
So the Jews can continue to siphon off wealth from everyone else.

[Anonymous No.22213269]

inflation and deflation are both important

deflation is stabilizing
inflation induces growth

these are tools

[Anonymous No.22213322]

>>22212831
Is buying a house cheaper today, corrected for "inflation", or not? I don't care if canned onions beans or an iPhone are not all that more expensive because of 20 years of technological advancements and outsourcing masking the hidden costs. Why is the former going up growth and the latter inflation?
"Inflation" is a buzzword that can be defined however you want. You have to look at what happening to the real economy underneath and its allocation of resources when you abstract away currencies. Inflation is used to prop up and consolidate the wealth of assets, as is the frankenstein of overleveraged credit (fiat against assets) that has been created.
If you think elites in any society acting in their self-interest is a conspiracy, you're delusional. Do you think people just act out of the goodness of their hearts? Even if they do, they'd love to have a moral excuse to do something good that just happens to benefit them. Academics step up to service that market with bogus theorycrafting, and sound economics is driven out of the market by lack of demand.
Even for CPI wageslave subsistence numbers the indicator methodology can easily be tampered with to create the desired results. See - Shadowstats using old official methodology applied to current data.
>big companies raising prices
What is the ultimate cause to this proximate one? Could it be that these big companies have an inherent advantage due to being endlessly propped up by low interest and high inflation?

[Anonymous No.22213379]

>>22212551
anon, read Rousseau, no joke, he has the answer to your question. I think it's basically that humans are susceptible to getting self esteem through material things, and when that happens, this self esteem can never be satisfied

[Anonymous No.22213413]

>>22211449
Banks hate it if you have saving to buy dips. The dips are so bad these days because they are destroying your savings magnifying the dip because you can't buy it sooner. So the bankers own more of the country every dip.

They hate the gold standard, they hate having money outside of their control. So they convince the simple " some inflation is good which is false. A market cycle where debt is allowed to mostly clear leading to periods of inflation and deflation is good.

Keynsian price stability thru inflation is one of the most evil policies ever adopted

[Anonymous No.22213447]

>>22211410
>>22211460
>>22211469

These are the correct answers.

[Anonymous No.22213473]

>>22211383
Only by creating an immediate need to work will people do so. This is accomplished by artificially devaluing the people's currency. Inflation can only be created through loans that charge a principle, no other means.

[Anonymous No.22213486]

>>22213175
>if printing more money doesn't inflate the value of currencies
Printing money can absolutely inflate the value of currencies, but printing money doesn't necessarily inflate the value of a currency. The central bank keeps printing money to match the GDP growth; every year there are more goods and services being producef (GDP growth), so we need to print more money to match that growth so that there's not an imbalance. Now, inflation still exists though (i'm talking about Europe this whole time, i don't know how the FED operates), why? Well, because many things can trigger inflation not just the central bank printing more money, many things that are not under control of the central banks can cause and cause inflation
As i said, printing money doesn't necessarily produce inflation, to give you a random example, if you print 1000 euros and you use them to pay a farmer so that he can farm, inflation won't necessarily happen, since you printed 1000 euros, but the farmer that gets paid those 1000 currency units is now producing goods (crops) worth more than that (say 1500). So, as long as the money printed is being invested on activities that generate economic growth equal or higher than the amount printed, it's all good

[Anonymous No.22213533]

>>22212753
This

[Anonymous No.22213774]

>>22212831
>the rest of the inflation happens because of many different reasons, such as big companies raising prices, specially companies that have a monopoly on certain goods

So, a central bank. You're making the mistake of thinking any of those things are mutually exclusive.

[Anonymous No.22213869]

>>22212551
By nature economies have to grow if they are active, just think about it, everyone has to buy things to survive, and people have to sell things at a profit so they can buy things themselves to survive. People are extracting value from resources (human/natural or otherwise) which then is reflected in the growth of the economy. You could make an argument about growth at any cost, but if economies aren't growing they aren't functioning properly.

Then you have to add the fact that there are multiple different economies all jockeying for power on the global stage and it becomes pretty obvious why it is the way it is.

[Anonymous No.22213898]

>>22212282
Jews

[Anonymous No.22213917]

>>22211383
Because if there are 100k us dollars in circulation but 300 million people living in the U.S. people would have to buy things in fractions of fractions of pennies except the vast majority of the population wouldn't have any pennies at all.

[Anonymous No.22213960]

>>22212940
I still don’t see it as a misconception, but more of an oversimplification. I’m not a clever man, ok?
>>22213131
Fair, but what you describe relating to overconsumption is the norm in the west, or at least had been for as long as I’ve been alive.
>shit, my car is six years old, better buy a new one
>I definitely need a 3000 ft^2 McMansion with a half an acre yard of grass that needs constant attention
And so forth

[Anonymous No.22214022]

>>22213917
This does not mean we need inflation, this means we need a higher supply of money, ie that society needs to print more money with a gold backed currency you can print more currency without deflation as long as you have enough gold. Since we have nothing backing the monetary system of the entire planet inflation is the result as the worthless dollars are mere fools gold.

[Anonymous No.22214056]

>>22212512
You can buy with bitcoins lots of places.

[Anonymous No.22214085]

>>22213869
Inflation is not actually growth though,it is a devaluation of the currency . Number go up but there is no growth. The growth would happen with our without the government intervention, but the inflation taxation and regulations stifle this.

[Anonymous No.22214175]

>>22212551
The only reason anybody NEEDS economic growth is because a bunch of faggots a couple hundred years ago made the assumption that the human population would continue to grow forever. Thus they only need it to go up to make money.

The economy naturally grows. 2 humans produce 200 pounds of potatoes and 10 kids. Those 10 kids produce 1000 pounds of potatoes and 10 kids each. Now you're producing 10k potatoes a year making vodka because you have too many potatoes.

[Anonymous No.22214328]

>>22212282
Economic growth indicates an economy with a lot of fluidity and transactions. People want to invest and set up shop in markets where money flows more freely as it makes marketing your shit easier so growing markets attract more investors and capital. On paper, you could pace deflationary systems to keep pace with the growth but that would require being aware of every single transaction with your currency so its impossible in practice.

All that said, short of a major economic overhaul/modernization no country NEEDS to have drastic growth. Nordic countries get by fine with 1% or less growth per year and they weathered the Eurozone Crisis much better than their neighbors.

[Anonymous No.22214367]

>>22214085
Well I was only talking about the context of the OP, that a stable economy has to be growing at least a little bit. Over the past half century all of our growth has basically been debt based, it was the financial deregulation in the Reagan era that allowed for this.

[Anonymous No.22214369]

>>22211383
every time i think about this, i arrive to the conclusion that the world was so much better before kike bankers, excel spreadsheets, economic theory, and government banking entities. even a barter economy would be an improvement.

[Anonymous No.22214393]

>>22214085
Inflation promotes growth though. All of you faggots are retarded. Historically inflation has a good record of keeping currency in circulation especially when there is a lot of income inequality. It forces cash to move hands from the rich to the poor more frequently.

Imagine if the U.S.Dollar inflated 10% a year. Every year wagies would be asking for a huge raise and the rich conglomerates would have to deal with that shit out of pocket while still trying to compete with other businesses for low prices. All the while consumers would be willing to spend more because they're constantly making more.

[Anonymous No.22214432]

>>22214056
technology is fucking up their plans, its really hard to control this shit. but I remember some town started minting and using silver coins and the feds showed up and shut it down real quick.

[Anonymous No.22214546]

>>22214393
the only winners in inflation is the person with the money printer and debtors (since they own negative dollars)

[Anonymous No.22214559]

>>22214393
>renegotiating wagie slave wages is the reason we need inflation
>meanwhile wages don't renegotiate that often
>meanwhile the average wagie is an agreeable person
>they don't negotiate
Again, you're missing that circulation is not necessary for growth, if some dragon is hoarding gold this does nothing to stop the ability of Joe and Bob to trade chickens and goats. Especially with modern technology where we can easily cut a slice down into .000000000000000001 separate pieces if necessary. You're old and outdated boomer. Your truisms for retaining the status quo were never truly true and your reign will soon luckily come to an end.

[Anonymous No.22214604]

>>22211383
the theory is that if people expect that their dollar will be worth less tomorrow than it is today, they will spend it on nonfungible goods more readily, in order to reap the more stable use-value of the commodity. the latent function (well, latent from the buyers perspective) is to transfer fungible value to businesses that have the existing capital to accumulate.

[Anonymous No.22214608]

>>22211383
to tax your savings, can't be getting ahead now

[Anonymous No.22214615]

>>22214367
All the growth in the last 50 years has come from technology and innovation which has nothing to do with inflation unless you want to tell me that the internet was invented because there was inflation and if not for the government siphoning resources from the population in this manner we never would have new things.

[Anonymous No.22214669]

>>22214432
sauce on this? how the fuck can the feds shut that down? the constitution defines the dollar based on silver. absolute clownery

[Anonymous No.22214696]

>>22212643
>You want technological progress to stop at 2020 forever?
Unironically yes. Have you seen what the government is doing with this stuff?

[Anonymous No.22214863]

>>22214615
Why are you replying to me, I haven't said anything about inflation at all.

[Anonymous No.22214922]

>>22214669
look up "liberty dollar"

[Anonymous No.22215324]

>>22212551
capitalist systems cant maintain stability and growth. contrary to neoclassicals history is clear that volatility is a feature, not a bug of markets.

[Anonymous No.22215356]

>>22211449
What about electronics you midwit?

[Anonymous No.22215406]

taking liquidity from the future as a loan the american people pay to pump the bags of the rich.

[Anonymous No.22215761]

To pump my real estate bags

[Anonymous No.22215772]

>>22214922
Yeah that's dumb, as soon as I started going to /pmg/ a few days ago I realized my new dream in life is to buy scrap gold/silver and melt it down to make my own coins. I'll put a 4chan clover on one side and a Longcat on the other side and use them as my own currency for off the books stuff and post-collapse.

[Anonymous No.22216045]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDJGbrp2MdQ

[Anonymous No.22216409]

>>22214922
of course they made this illegal. Trading in precious metals would sooner or later end up with trading with banknotes redeemable in precious metals like it was when dollars were backed by gold/silver and we can't have that now, can we?
It's ridiculous

[Anonymous No.22216793]

>>22212946
this

[Anonymous No.22216959]

>>22211469
THIS IS OVER STIMULATING I CAN'T FOCUS ON SO MANY THINGS AAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Anonymous No.22217003]

Are those 1971 charts showing the divergance of wages and inflation accurate? Are we really that fucked?

[Anonymous No.22217015]

>>22211410
Very true. On the counterpart real deflation would lead to perfect resource allocation, minimum waste and a wealth transfer from rich to poor. However i would limit the state's power as it would put an end to endless debt accumulation, as inflation is always needed to melt away debt. The state would be financially less powerful, which would be a good thing. Deflationary tailspin is a myth by MMT.

[Anonymous No.22217042]

>>22211449
You learned your mmt phrases pretty well anon.

[Anonymous No.22217089]

>>22211527
Would eventually lead to people only buying what they really need. Deflation is a perfect allocation of capital. It just doesn't go well with corporate capitalism and growth at all costs.