/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.22069557]

dump your fucking monero right now.
https://maxbit.cc/us-homeland-security-can-now-track-privacy-crypto-monero/

[Anonymous No.22069663]

it didn't have to be this way wtf

[Anonymous No.22069665]

read this: >>22060534

[Anonymous No.22069695]

>ghost still dumping
lel

[Anonymous No.22069741]

>>22069557
Don't have any. Don't think privacy is a huge selling point right now.

[Anonymous No.22069805]

>>22069741
That's why now is the time to buy. Once governments get serious about controlling crypto an anonymous coin is going to be in demand and XMR has first mover advantage.

[Anonymous No.22069827]

>>22069557
Im behind ten proxies and tor
Good luck
Oh and btw id you sell out and work for the government you’re a faggot

[Anonymous No.22069854]

>You can’t be as deterministic as Bitcoin,” he said. “In tracing Monero, it’s really more of a probabilistic game. You can say: Well, I have 98% probability that this went from this address to this address, or 78%, or that type of thing. It takes a different approach, rather than [saying]: I’m going to guarantee everything is perfect
And it's nothing. In the USA if there's a shadow of doubt then you are innocent.

[Anonymous No.22069867]

ZCash or PIVX?

[Anonymous No.22069924]

>>22069805
Yeah I can see that. Good point. What other privacy coins are there? Do you hold any XMR?

[Anonymous No.22070199]

>>22069854
Get a Jewish layer and your set.

>>22069827
Based

[Anonymous No.22071126]

bumo

[Anonymous No.22071158]

>>22069557
My SUTER bags have been waiting for this moment.

[Anonymous No.22071221]

>>22069557
Read the ending, they're not able to fully track any particular individual

[Anonymous No.22071618]

>>22069557
BULLSHIT.
They just implement techniques that were showcased in Moneros own "Breaking Monero" series and taking money for it from the gov which is just a hilarious scam.
They still can't actually trace you.

Owner of the company even wrote:"Monero will always be a probabilistic analysis problem"

[Anonymous No.22071851]

>>22071618
so this is nothing but FUD?
in the interview the owner of the company sounds like a fat nasally jew and says he wants what's best for the monero community kek

if this is meaningful in any way this will cripple xmr though

[Anonymous No.22071888]

>>22071851
Yes it's fud, they don't want people to know that untraceable money exists

[Anonymous No.22072004]

>>22071888

checked. trips of truth
having faith in the xmr dev team is also not a bad bet. they're very dedicated to the project and will only get better after this

[Anonymous No.22072007]

what if you still shuffle it through more monero addresses while doing other shit to protect OPSEC

[Anonymous No.22072495]

LMAO this guy is either actually retarded or is a scumbag that doesn't give a shit about innocent people being charged as guilty.

the dr. monero researcher asked him how he deals with false positives if someone frames an address by sending tainted funds
retard company ceo says its a conspiracy theory and no one in the world would do such a thing and says that he's "not the math person"

what a bumbling fuckhead

[Anonymous No.22072506]

DEEP ONION you fools

[Anonymous No.22072513]

>>22069557
only a matter of time before feds got a hold of it

[Anonymous No.22072669]

>>22072495
this is absolutely criminal
the "justice system" my ass

[Anonymous No.22072685]

>>22069557
Just bought more, thanks anon.

[Anonymous No.22072735]

>>22069827
>tor
they were watching you with popcorn from the start

[Anonymous No.22072801]

>>22069557
>dump your fucking monero
This is fud until proof is demonstrated

[Anonymous No.22072823]

>>22069867
Particl

[Anonymous No.22072904]

Monero is the comfiest hold. One of the few cryptos that's already delivering and isn't just empty promises.

[Anonymous No.22072922]

This convinced me to buy XMR. If that was your plan congratulations.

[Anonymous No.22072934]

>>22069557
EVERYONE MIGRATE TO LOKI!!!

[Anonymous No.22073406]

>>22069557
LOKI anons win once again

[Anonymous No.22074385]

I don't think it's FUD in the traditional sense, I think it's just some company trying to score government contracts and exchange customers with their glorified block explorer.

>>22072495
Loved how he responded to Dr Sarang Noether, PhD, with "I'm a scientist" before describing his straightforward concern about false positives as a conspiracy theory.

[Anonymous No.22074907]

>>22069557
monero always had piss poor anonymity
major problems:
1 no output anonymity (everyone knows which address received coins)
2 vulnerability to 'poison inputs' (known spent outputs) - reduces anonymity set

1 is the worst. It means if the attacker controls the original sender (eg. a honeypot darknet market) and knows which addresses belong to the exchanges (they share that), and some idiot receives monero from darknet market and then sends it directly to the exchange, after just two transfers there's enough info to know the identity

2 - self explanatory. An attacker knows outputs from cooperating exchanges + spams monero to generate his own inputs.

Last but not least monero's anonymity isn't quantum resistant, a quantum computer would deanonymize the entire history of all monero transactions.
Dumb criminals that believed claims of xmrfags that just pump their bags deserve what's coming to them

[Anonymous No.22075015]

>>22074907
can #1 be changed in a future monero update/fork? seems like it could be a much-requested feature

[Anonymous No.22075067]

>>22074907
wait i cant tell if this is a fud attempt or not

[Anonymous No.22075159]

>>22075067
>>22075015
>>22072495
>>22071126
underage detected

[Anonymous No.22075177]

>>22075015
it would require moving to a zcash model of spent inputs tree where the existence of an unspent output is proven in zero knowledge (not necessarily zk-snark) - the anonymity set is the entire set of all anonymous transactions ever.
Tornado.cash has the same model on ethereum, the drawback is it uses fixed amounts.

the mixer model (with encrypted amounts) utilized by monero is inherently weak, they're constantly increasing the number of mixins, but if the number of mixins was (potentially) infinite, anonymity becomes identical to that of full zero knowledge system, so all they do is slowly approach the ideal in a non-efficient way.
I think that's mostly because of dumb anti-zcash marketing that convinced xmrfags zk-snarks are somehow evil and insecure

[Anonymous No.22075184]

>>22074907
Lol that is wrong, kiddie

[Anonymous No.22075194]

Didnt you guys read the article. They broke the cypher but law enforcement said they'll only use it when theres a Legitimate Crime. So theres nothing to worry about. Dont you want the good guys to win?

[Anonymous No.22075285]

>>22075194
there was nothing in the article along those lines, quote it then faggot. nice try Dave Jevans you and your shitty company haven't accomplished anything other than becoming the laughingstock of this thread

[Anonymous No.22075336]

>>22075285
First of all you fucking desperate blogpost-spamming faggot, its called sarcasm.
Second, it's the last fucking sentence of the article. Kys unironically.

“What we do provide are tools for law enforcement, when there’s legitimate crimes, to help them do investigations and then do their work to identify the individuals.”

[Anonymous No.22075352]

>>22074907
>1 no output anonymity (everyone knows which address received coins)
>2 vulnerability to 'poison inputs' (known spent outputs) - reduces anonymity set
Does lying on the internet makes your peepee bigger?

[Anonymous No.22075419]

>>22071888
checked

[Anonymous No.22076017]

>>22075352
why did you write two posts without any counterargument
do you even know how monero works? let me guess, you think stealth addresses are somehow anonymous?

[Anonymous No.22076610]

>>22074907
An EAE attack is one of several attacks to be concerned about if you are a person of interest, but it requires bad actors on both sides of the target. This is the situation you are (poorly) describing in your post. For those who don't understand how this works, an individual that is a target for something like this will have an exchange send them monero utxos that they know that is from them. They then have a wallet on the dark net as a honeypot. When the target later sends monero to the dark net honeypot, it may contain some of the monero outputs from before. Over time, if enough of those poisoned transactions are seen by the wallet, you can argue that the person in between sent those transactions (check out Breaking Monero for more info)
In practice though, this is extremely difficult to do. For one, once a monero ring signature is created for a transaction, the transaction output may show up in a future transaction as a mix in instead of a real transaction. How can the observer tell the difference? This plausible deniability creates an impossible situation for somebody attempting to prove someone spent amounts. It's just not happening. Meta data leakages such as ip addreses, timing of funds sent, computer surveillance, phone surveillance, and of course person surveillance are far, far more effective ways of proving guilt.
Saying that Monero is piss poor anonymity is completely retarded. Monero is the perfect tool against surveillance. You are automatically blended in a massive herd (way larger than zcash you nigger kike, btw) and because every transaction looks the same it requires attackeres to get massive amounts of data on a target.
>no output anonymity (everyone knows which address received coins)
complete bs
>quantum resistant
as with any type of opsec, defenses against quantum computing will arise once attacks come to fruition.

[Anonymous No.22076670]

>>22076610
The point is not to prove you're the culprit, but to make it likely enough to get a warrant.
>complete bs
"stealth addresses" are just one-time use addresses. Nothing special.
>defenses against quantum computing will arise once attacks come to fruition.
the problem is that a quantum computer would deanonymize every monero transaction ever made, while a zk-snark based anonymity can't be deanonymized at all

[Anonymous No.22076731]

>>22069854
>I have 98% probability that this went from this address to this address, or 78%, or
Or 0.1% you fucking luminescent negros. Fudding at the bottom of a bear market is just a waste since no one cares anymore. Now the next time you try pull this crap it will be like the 110th time we've heard it and no one will give a shit.

[Anonymous No.22076742]

>>22075177
The zcash model is 95% unshielded transactions with a small amount of transactions that are actually fully shielded. We hate zcash because it is non optional privacy which renders it USELESS. We also dislike the origins of it (tel aviv) and the very strong chance of a backdoor. It also has zero adoption and works as a pump and dump for asic miners.
>the mixer model (with encrypted amounts) utilized by monero is inherently weak, they're constantly increasing the number of mixins, but if the number of mixins was (potentially) infinite, anonymity becomes identical to that of full zero knowledge system, so all they do is slowly approach the ideal in a non-efficient way.
It's not just "mixing" it also involves stealth addresses to prevent somebody from knowing who receives the funds and also confidential transactions, which prevents somebody from knowing how much monero is sent in each transaction.
>>22076670
>The point is not to prove you're the culprit, but to make it likely enough to get a warrant.
You need a warrant for surveillance you fucking mongoloid. Chain analysis only becomes a factor with passive surveillance.
>"stealth addresses" are just one-time use addresses. Nothing special.
it prevents you from knowing who received monero.
>the problem is that a quantum computer would deanonymize every monero transaction ever made
reread my original answer you retard. if quantum computing actually becomes a reality the entire internet would be fucked, which is why defenses will arise once that happens. its how internet privacy works, its a constant battle.

[Anonymous No.22076977]

>>22076742
>We hate zcash because it is non optional privacy which renders it USELESS
This is the single dumbest meme from monero. There's no qualitative difference at all between a separate network that's fully anonymous and a portion of other network with other transaction. The only difference is what's the size of the anonymity set.
Outside of theory, existence of non-anonymous transactions on the same network is a big advantage as it makes it easier to enter anonymity compared to a separate network
>it also involves stealth addresses
Marketing term for using addresses only once, which I already wrote. Recommended also on bitcoin.
>You need a warrant for surveillance you fucking mongoloid. Chain analysis only becomes a factor with passive surveillance.
You absolutely don't need a warrant to get anonymized data from exchanges. 'Anonymized' means that rather than 'John Doe' each deposit and withdrawal has a client id without corresponding data, but that's enough for chain analysis of this type. Exchanges absolutely do share data like that.
>if quantum computing actually becomes a reality the entire internet would be fucked
wrong, because 'internet' would get time to switch to something else, and there's so much encrypted data sent every day not even nsa has enough disk space to store everything across the years. Old monero blocks are definitely going to be available.

[Anonymous No.22077010]

>>22069557

[Anonymous No.22077034]

>>22069854
All the government has to say is “national security” and even if there is a 200% chance you being innocent they’ll do a secret court (that you’re not even allowed to attend) and you’ll be sentenced to years in prison without ever even knowing why. “Welcome to the USA go fuck yourself” is our motto since 9/11.

[Anonymous No.22077249]

>>22076977
>There's no qualitative difference at all between a separate network that's fully anonymous and a portion of other network with other transaction. The only difference is what's the size of the anonymity set.
> The only difference is what's the size of the anonymity set.
LMFAO. Yeah no shit sherlock. That's the whole fucking point. With Monero, every transaction looks exactly the same. It's impossible to tell any difference. It is fungible. With Zcash, your anon set is miniscule.
https://explorer.zcha.in/statistics/values
Nobody actually uses privacy for zcash. So shielded zcash transactions can stick out, which is why that one twitter user a few weeks ago got his shielded transaction traced. pic related. Without baked in privacy with large anon sets you are going to fuck up unless you spend hours studying the technology, which noobies will never do.
>Marketing term for using addresses only once, which I already wrote
Wrong. You can use a stealth address over and over again. The difference is that it creates a one time address on the blockchain derived from the stealth address. It's impossible to tell how many times a stealth address is used.
>wrong, because 'internet' would get time to switch to something else, and there's so much encrypted data sent every day not even nsa has enough disk space to store everything across the years. Old monero blocks are definitely going to be available
Did you seriously ignore the second half of my sentence where I said "which is why defenses will arise once that happens. its how internet privacy works, its a constant battle."
Done replying to you tonight glow nigger. You started off strong trying to confuse people with obscure attacks but once I assblasted you with logic there you had to pivot to lame fud and now you're just being lazy and not reading my sentences. fucking lol.
p.s.: monero is working on quantum research: https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/research-post-quantum-monero.html

[Anonymous No.22077281]

>>22069557
No fucking shit. You think Vitalik would have spent years shilling ZK proofs if he thought Monero was anything other than a scam? Monero's top fat fuck dev hangs around bitcoin maxis like Samson Mow so he is obviously a scamming piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.22077306]

>>22076977
>Outside of theory,
Did you mean the opposite of this? Zcash exists outside of theory and no one uses the privacy features.

[Anonymous No.22077311]

>>22069557
So what is the best anonymous way to move funds?

[Anonymous No.22077359]

>>22071158
Literally the only reason I bought some on a whim. Wish I threw more than a random hundred at it now

[Anonymous No.22077387]

>>22069854
If they have a probability that one address sent coins to another, then all you have to do to make the overall probability of getting caught to practically zero is to use more middleman wallets

[Anonymous No.22077391]

>>22077249
>Nobody actually uses privacy for zcash.
who cares, stop trying to strawman. All I wrote about is using zk-snarks, which are objectively superior, and you clearly know that. That's why you're attacking zcash for having no users like it's even relevant.
>Wrong. You can use a stealth address over and over again
The addresses themselves are one time retard. What you think is an 'address' is seed used to generate one-time addresses.
>once I assblasted you with logic
you know best how much you got btfo, which is why the density of invectives increases with your every post. I'm sure you would get many upvotes on r/monero.
>>22077311
the best anonymity is obviously going to be on ethereum, not on zcash.

[Anonymous No.22077872]

>>22069827
proxy software is compromised.

[Anonymous No.22078333]

>>22069557
I sold my privacy coins after DECO announcement for smartcon. tornado.cash was one thing, now LINK is also going to do privacy.

[Anonymous No.22078470]

>>22069854
Tell that to James Fields.

[Anonymous No.22079208]

>>22069557
Bought more :^)

[Anonymous No.22080080]

>>22078333
So much pajeetery in one post. Monero doesn't just "do privacy". It is fungible digital money. There isn't another coin (besides monero forks) that actually does this properly. Having a "privacy feature" is pointless. Monero is money for the internet, the rest are ponzis.