TAXATION

[Anonymous No.2129623]

aren't we all gonna get fucked in the ass for taxes? you're meant to file taxes for all the capital gains you made in that year. so that means you gotta file your tax forms for every crypto transaction you made every single year. a lot of people here have been at it multiple years without filing any, so they've technically already broken the law.

what are we gonna do? any tax experts here to help us out

pic unrelated

[Anonymous No.2129629]

>>2129623
How will they know retard?

[Anonymous No.2129637]

>>2129623
ayy fucking lamo nice one fbi

[Anonymous No.2129645]

>>2129623
I'm pretty new at this but I've literally been copy and pasting every transaction to a word document
but yeah all I know is they tax it like property I guess just put some aside when you cash out for tax payment

[Anonymous No.2129656]

>>2129629
because it's their job to find out and they won't let a huge market of billions go untaxed.

[Anonymous No.2129661]

You dont file for capital gain tax until you actually cash it out from BTC.

If the government wanted to tax crypto, it would have been accepted by sec.

[Anonymous No.2129669]

>>2129645
not just when you cash out, you gotta pay taxes on it every year even if you didn't cash out.

[Anonymous No.2129757]

>>2129623
Not here in the Netherlands. Get fucking cucked amerifats

>1.2% taxation on investment gains AFTER 25k euro

Laughinggirls.jpeg

[Anonymous No.2130398]

>>2129757
we got it good in the netherlands but belgium is better 0 tax gotta move to there

[Anonymous No.2130695]

no tax on bitcoin profits in Belgium

[Anonymous No.2130712]

>>2129757
Do we (dutchies) calculate on cashout or holdings? I want to cash out 400k. How assraped am I going to get? Should I get an accountant?

[Anonymous No.2130728]

Does it matter if I'm trading between crypto's? Or only when I turn it into dollars? Serious question. I need to know.

[Anonymous No.2130739]

>>2129623

Americans are the only people who get cucked with taxes even if we don't live in our country.

Only way to escape the IRS is to kys or renounce your citizenship.

[Anonymous No.2130753]

>>2129623
Should've been British instead

Crypto is treated like gambling so no taxes are applied unless you make a huge profit in which case there's a tiny capital gains tax

[Anonymous No.2130769]

I read that long-term capital gains can be taxed up to 20-30% in the US. Is that true?

[Anonymous No.2130794]

>>2130712
Tax is based on your holdings. You're required to indicate how much your cryptocurrency is worth on january 1st of this year (Box 3). you then have to pay 1.2% tax after 25k euro.

It'd look really fishy if you didn't file the amount of cryptocurrency you have and you suddenly cash out 400k. You can google some more info on the belastingdienst's stance on cryptocurrency. And if you're uncertain you can always talk to an accountant

[Anonymous No.2130819]

>>2130794

Vermogensbelasting gaat volgend jaar omhoog, en flink ook. But still, nowhere near income tax levels!

[Anonymous No.2130828]

lmao americucks and their ass rape worry about taxes
meanwhile no tax on crypto in my glorious european country

[Anonymous No.2130835]

In Germany and austria we have a little more luck:

If you hold your coins for 1 year NOT TOUCHING AND TRADING it.
You can cash out tax free.

[Anonymous No.2130846]

>>2130828
land of the free, right?
:^) get cucked burgers

[Anonymous No.2130953]

>>2130753
Where can I inform myself on this? Please spoon feed me anon, I don't want cctv to get me.

[Anonymous No.2130988]

>>2130835

Das ist bei den hart schwankenden Werten der kryptos aber nicht so geil.
Optimal wäre natürlich du machst mit DGB 1 Mio € in BTC lässt es 1 Jahr liegen und BTC steigt in der Zeit um 300%

[Anonymous No.2131005]

Although you're right, think of it realistically.
Even if you trade 100 of a single shitcoin, those 100 are coming from possibly up to 100 different addresses
And those 100 might be further splintered into other trees of transactions
They'd have to follow the yellow brick road all the way to a source, then come back, then compare the data to the supposed capital exchanged in that period

And that's for ONE transaction of 100 coins
A typical trader performs several dozen multi-million transactions every DAY
And that's for EVERY SINGLE PERSON

How the fuck are they going to check

[Anonymous No.2131028]

I'm just reporting the gains I made in fiat by cashing out at the end of the year.

[Anonymous No.2131030]

>>2129623

KEK AMERIKEK

[Anonymous No.2131067]

>>2130953
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory

https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax/overview

[Anonymous No.2131072]

this coin is dead guys get out while you can

[Anonymous No.2131083]

>>2130988
I put a few million DGB on my core wallet already last year.

I can cash out a part whenever I want.
Just have to re-check it with my accountant that is specialized on crypto.

[Anonymous No.2131098]

>>2129623

Wrong. (U.S. Laws)

1) You only pay when you cash out like stocks

2) In the U.S., it counts as property and is subject to capital gains. If you cash out in under a year, you're subject to short term capital gains. If you cash out in over a year, you're subject to long term capital gains (which is much lower).

[Anonymous No.2131120]

>>2131083

You would have to wait til a DGB/EUR exchange is established then. Then you would be fine though.

>tfw got only 200k because autistic poorfag with shizoid personality disorder

falls du was ans Winterhilfswerk spenden willst :D

DTB96ReBziAjRiaEXyFyK4vfYVadiSm7hK

[Anonymous No.2131152]

>>2130695
Source on this? I'm in Belgium and I'm interested.

[Anonymous No.2131204]

>>2131120
There is an BTC broker in Austria, which maye also accept altcoins after a talk.
Which he certainly will because of the fee he makes.

Winterhilfswerk, musste erstmal schauen was das ist.
Wäre mein Wallet nicht umständlich abgelegt damit ich nicht schnell dazu kann, vielleicht ;)

[Anonymous No.2131271]

>>2131204

What is his website?

[Anonymous No.2131352]

>>2131271
coinfinity.co in Graz

I think there is a different one in Vienna.

Brokers are taking a fee but hey, at least I can cash out in a legal way without worries.

[Anonymous No.2131424]

>>2130846
>home of the slaves

[Anonymous No.2131429]

>>2131352

thanks

[Anonymous No.2131649]

>>2131429
Was noch interessant wäre für dich:

https://bitcoin-austria.at/de/artikel/bitcoin-steuern-oesterreich/20170301_Bitcoin%20und%20Steuerrecht_Folien.pdf

[Anonymous No.2131964]

>>2131098
This guy knows.

[Anonymous No.2131982]

>>2129623
Yeah I probably owed short term capital gains taxes for previous years and now I CAN'T report my gains even if I wanted to because it would reveal inconsistencies.

[Anonymous No.2132096]

>>2129656
>make btc on the internet selling goods and services (never bought a single one)
>x1000 my BTC in altcoin trades
>government can never know because i never touched the banking system
>put my millions in a usb pendrive and fly to a tax haven in 10 years
>sell 50% and keep %50 still being a BTC mogul
>retire and live off dividends while fucking exotic hookers

Life's good.

[Anonymous No.2132108]

>>2129623
>bought ethereum through my friends coinbase accounts
>they sent ethereum to my own coinbase account without an ID
>going to sell locally and not write up my taxes

Canada

How likely am I going to get fucked by gay man tredeau

[Anonymous No.2132136]

If you're dealing with a lot of money, talk to a financial advisor about what to do. Start keeping a ledger, too (but all trading sites will keep one for you anyway)
dont worry too much

[Anonymous No.2132144]

>taxes
man who cares

[Anonymous No.2132154]

>>2132096
>put my millions in a usb pendrive
You need Trezor my friend.

[Anonymous No.2132155]

Why not just report after cashing the fuck out as capital gains income?

[Anonymous No.2132365]

>>2132154
The thing with trezor and all those devices is, you are walking with something that says "I hold bitcoins".

If you use a usb with a bitcoin core wallet.dat file encrypted inside a veracrypt hidden volume, it's impossible to prove you are holding bitcoin in case they ever look at it.

[Anonymous No.2132375]

>>2132365
>veracrypt

Why veracrypt and not something else like truecrypt 7.1a (before the nsa took over operations)

[Anonymous No.2132385]

Why not buy BTC on Ebay then trade with that then cash out on localbitcoins or bitcoin atm's in your city?

IRS cant fuck you then right?

[Anonymous No.2132512]

What if you buy a product directly using crypto?

[Anonymous No.2132590]

>>2132512

It depends on your country.
If your country decided you don't have to pay VAT on crypto transactions, you're home free.
Otherwise you pay the additional tax.

[Anonymous No.2132611]

>>2132365
They can look at it all they want. Keep your seed memorized, written down or additionally encrypted on a usb drive and they can't do anything even if they confiscate it.

[Anonymous No.2132860]

>>2129623
>he's not hoarding all his crypto until it's accepted by major retailers, landlords, and used in everyday transactions

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.2132866]

>>2132512
all they can do is charge sales tax

[Anonymous No.2132879]

>>2132860
what difference will that make? it will still be subject to tax

[Anonymous No.2132886]

>>2131152

http://www.coindesk.com/belgium-tax-vat-bitcoin-transactions/

[Anonymous No.2132894]

>>2132879
not income tax or capital gains. retailers can only charge sales tax on a transaction

[Anonymous No.2132900]

>>2132886
That's VAT... what about capital gains tax or income tax?

[Anonymous No.2132917]

>>2129669
Not true. Seeing as when you do a trade, you don't get paid in fiat, you still have not realized the gains.

[Anonymous No.2132919]

>>2132879
I think the big question is, is it subject to tax if it's in your possession or is it only subject to tax when you cash it out as fiat currency?

Let's say, for example, you bought in a coin for $100 and somehow the value is now worth $100,000 by the time the next tax season rolls around. If you decide not to cash it out, will you still be taxed 30% of that? What if you don't have the fiat money to pay that without cashing out?

[Anonymous No.2132926]

>>2132894
why would it not be? any profit would be treated the same way as any other income or capital gains.

[Anonymous No.2132947]

Cash out to fiat and see that in your bank account , and THEN worry

[Anonymous No.2132957]

>>2132919
i dont think you'll be taxed for holding online, only if you cash out, and then it would most likely treated as capital gains tax

[Anonymous No.2132978]

>>2129629
>How will they know retard?
Coinbase sends all your trading data to the Feds, so the IRS has records of your crypto purchases.

IRS monitors every deposit in your bank account, and files a tax return on you anyways that's 99% accurate. If you don't file one that matches, they know you're fucking around.

[Anonymous No.2133003]

>>2132919
What are taxable events

Tax when tx occurs, not mark to market

[Anonymous No.2133004]

>>2132978
> woops I lost my keys to my wallets
> looks like I lost all my gains
> reimburse pls

Prove I didn't.

[Anonymous No.2133005]

>>2129669
No you don't you fucking retard, you only pay taxes when you sell.

[Anonymous No.2133011]

>>2132108
Taxable income status on crypto in Canada is so far not established according to wikipedia. Apparently it's classified as an intangible under the PPSA. Shit's over my head, but it looks like we are safe to cash out for free up here.

[Anonymous No.2133030]

>>2130769
Short Term = 28% (Anything held for less than 1 year)

Long Term: 15% (Anything held for over 1 year)

[Anonymous No.2133131]

Any idea about Canada? Would this shit fall under income or capital gains (I've heard it could be either)?

[Anonymous No.2133150]

I'll just list it as self-employment

capital gains applies for securities, which cryptocoins are not

[Anonymous No.2133174]

>>2133004
You're still on the hook for taxes if you made those gains. IRS doesn't care if you lost your wallet. Same thing with stocks. If you don't report your trades, they assume every trade is profit and tax the fuck out of you.

>Clueless 20-Something Day Trader Finds Out He Owes $172 Million In Unpaid Taxes On Google
>Esparza did not know he was required to file a tax return during the year he was swapping stocks. But, the IRS was tracking his every move – and they assumed that Esparza made pure profit on his day trading transactions. This would have given Esparza Bofill a whopping $500 million in income.
>http://www.businessinsider.com/marcus-bofill-day-trader-owes-172-million-in-unpaid-taxes-2010-8

[Anonymous No.2133200]

>>2129661
Coin to coin flips are taxable in the US. Buying goods with coins are taxable events. Pay the taxman or be Jamal's boyfriend

[Anonymous No.2133370]

>>2133200
What about other countries? Specifically EU and Australia/NZ. Do they work differently?

[Anonymous No.2133590]

>>2129623
I've been filing every year, claimed every dollar. although I'm really going to owe this year.

>>2130728
>>2132512
all transactions (USA)

>>2133150
ahem https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

>>2132144
is this a new meme? not paying your taxes?

t. developer that automated everything

[Anonymous No.2133745]

>>2132900

why would you declare it ?

[Anonymous No.2133787]

>>2133174
fuck this is gay I fucking hate america. So I'm guessing I gotta keep all my logs and actually track my real earnings and shit?

[Anonymous No.2133788]

>>2133745
If you want to actually buy something with fiat...

[Anonymous No.2133892]

>>2131098
So lets say 30% capital gains tax.

If I buy $100 worth of BTC, trade that for $100 worth of DGB, DGB doubles and makes me $200, then I trade that back for $200 worth of BTC and cash the $200 out, I pay 30% of that gain of $100, or $30 in taxes?

Just want to understand this shit. I'm going to keep a log of my transactions to be safe, but hopefully that's the gist of what reality will actually dictate.

[Anonymous No.2133955]

>>2133787
yes, but it gets easier the more money you make, and you get better at it. using FIFO i've been slowly selling and replacing my cheapest eth (~$10 cost) that's rolled over to long term so I'm only paying 15% now on a few thousand in gains here and there, instead of on ten thousand here and there a year or two from now. reducing my tax exposure exponentially.

[Anonymous No.2134001]

What exactly is taxed? Should taxation not just be me selling BTC/ETH/LTC from coinbase into my bank account?
Why would every DGB trade be taxed if there is no way to cash out into a direct fiat market?

[Anonymous No.2134010]

>>2131098
this guy is correct
who's going to know (or care) about your coin trading? do you think the government keeps track of your virtual weapons trading in online games?
it only matters when you make a deposit in your bank

[Anonymous No.2134033]

>>2133955
If I understand you correctly. You've been able to organize and stagger your withdraws so that each one has >1 year of age so you can pay less on it? How have you set this up anon? Are you using a program or have you personally created some sort of spreadsheet?

[Anonymous No.2134041]

WTF What about africa IS THIS SHIT TAXABLE IN AFRICA ??

[Anonymous No.2134060]

>>2134001
dont worry, these are just bootlickers who were "that kid" in class who would suck the teachers dick

if youre making real real profits on a coin just take the coin off the exchange and put it in your wallet

[Anonymous No.2134070]

>>2132926
they cant tax you until you cash out to fiat

[Anonymous No.2134079]

>>2134041
no, just renounce your american citizenship and fly to a tax haven

[Anonymous No.2134086]

>>2134001
I'm getting really tired of explaining this, but I'll do it anyways.

when it comes to property and capital gains in the USA, you can do what is called a like-kind exchange where you'd carry the acquired date and cost basis of the first transaction (fiat --> coin) onto the like-kind transactions (coin --> coin) and pay taxes later on when you are converting to something that isn't like-kind (coin --> fiat).

so even if you wanted to do this, you'd need to file like-kind exchanges for all those middle transactions.

the problem is, if you are in the business of trading cryptos, it would NOT qualify as a like-kind exchange. the IRS isn't stupid. you're trading to make money and they know it.

so that's why you have to log every transaction if you're a normal trader.

>>2134033
I created a double ledger database that automates price and cost calculations and then import the data into quicken, which organizes all the tax shit. I haven't converted anything to fiat, but am buying new ETH to trade for different alts. when I sell the new ETH for the new alt, it takes out my oldest lots because of FIFO. my new eth has a cost basis of the current market price.

[Anonymous No.2134091]

>>2134070
yes and if it becomes as widely accepted as fiat they'll just slap a VAT tax on it too.

[Anonymous No.2134094]

>>2134060
Yeah, if >>2131098 is correct then there are no worries. Capital gains tax on property is rather fair anyway.
I know that transactions between something like gold and silver are taxed because those have a direct connection to the fiat market, but I can't sell most altcoins for USD, thus it cannot be taxed.

[Anonymous No.2134101]

>>2134079
im not american i live in africa

[Anonymous No.2134137]

>>2134086
You are one fucking smart anon. I've got some basic javascript and dev ops skills but don't know if I could pull some shit like this. Did you end up hooking into the api's for the sites you're trading off of and what they were when you traded them and what they're currently worth?

[Anonymous No.2134170]

>>2134086

you should consider creating a product out of this. It's got a big potential. Want to talk about turning it into a sellable product anon?

[Anonymous No.2134176]

>>2134137
yes, I have python scripts pulling from the ticker APIs, which puts the data into a postgresql database. I don't trade enough to automate actually pulling the trade data via api, so I just manually enter trade date, coin, price into a front end which queries the database and does the rest. only takes a minute or two per trade.

[Anonymous No.2134201]

>>2134170
I've thought about it but my day job is good and stable. my day job is the reason I knew how to do it. plus there's already some big websites that offer this service.

[Anonymous No.2134202]

we are fucked, a-are weee?

>mfw holding 300k dgb

[Anonymous No.2134234]

taxes are for losers

[Anonymous No.2134236]

>>2134202
stop drawing meaningless lines!

[Anonymous No.2134274]

>>2129669

> t. high school student

[Anonymous No.2134275]

>>2134202
dumb line poster

whales have way too much invested in this let it go south

[Anonymous No.2134287]

>>2134202
Everytime time this happens in the last week, I woke up with +100-200 Sat ATH from the last time.

See ya tomorrow @1000 Sat

[Anonymous No.2134329]

>>2134176
Seriously thank you for the insight anon. I know what classes I'll be taking this semester so I can kill two birds with one stone. The bittrex api seems simple enough to use. By chance would you happen to know if since it posts JSON data can I just use good old javascript? I know shit about py.

[Anonymous No.2134361]

Call this guy

[Anonymous No.2134363]

is crypto currency taxable in north africa ?

[Anonymous No.2134373]

>>2134329
yeah all the data from the apis is in json. I work in analytics so my strength is scripting and sql (and saving money). I don't know shit about javascript. it really depends on the platform you are putting it on, I just have it all on my home linux server.

[Anonymous No.2134413]

why not just say youre a freelance web dev and when you cash out say you were paid in BTC

all that trading? oh all thats still in my wallet..

[Anonymous No.2134861]

If crypto was really taxable, why don't the exchanges provide you with a 1099?

[Anonymous No.2134880]

>>2134329
JSON is the most universal and adaptable object format I've come across. You can use it in virtually any programming language including Javascript.

[Anonymous No.2135480]

>>2134413
Go ahead, Jamal would love to hear that story in the showers.