/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.20744058]

How does UBI not just create a new baseline for poverty?

[Anonymous No.20744079]

If Poverty is redefined as "Clothed, fed, sheltered, but effectively useless with no future"
It's still better than "fucked".

[Anonymous No.20744111]

As long as UBI is tied to actual value of goods, like food, clothing and a roof above one's head, it is fine.
If it is just some random number every month, then -- yes, it is horrible

[Anonymous No.20744140]

>>20744079
Why not let these useless low IQ people die off. It will only strengthen the gene pool.

[Anonymous No.20744147]

>>20744058
We are so far removed from free market economies everywhere in the world that an argument that assumes them simply doesn't hold from a short-term, pragmatic point of view. And you have to look at how we even got here in the first place.
The fact is that the real reason for everything that's wrong with current economic policy is that political elites have no interest to act in the long-term, multi-generational interest of their countries in rotatory democracies. So they ransack them and set up useless bureaucratic institutions to take tributes in a roundabout way. Meanwhile, welfare programs create a client class that can sustain support for their regime.
If you are in neither, you are part of the servile middle class that pays for this, and should be advocating for UBI. Although it is a net negative for the economy, it benefits the welfareless middle class so much proportionally that you will be in a net winning position, and by a lot. It bleeds out civil service bureaucracies and equalizes welfare.
The beauty about it is that they simply CANNOT refuse it within the stated reasons and narratives they have constructed around their spending. And yet it completely goes diametrically against the actual, real purpose of those policies. It's the economic version of "Islam is right about women"

[Anonymous No.20744193]

>>20744140
Because useless people don't die off. They march in the streets, tear down history, and light buildings on fire.
If they're at least fed and sheltered somewhere they're not in the streets shitting on everything like San Fran.

[Anonymous No.20744220]

>>20744147
as a middle class goy the extra cash would be nice and I can manage my money well enough to take it pretty far
basically get no help from the government and taxed to hell right now

[Anonymous No.20744236]

>>20744193
Why not mow them down with mini gun fire?

[Anonymous No.20744269]

>>20744058
It does. It keeps niggers and white trash placated

[Anonymous No.20744273]

>>20744079
>just create an incentive to be a fucking hobo
and watch civilization rotting in hell

[Anonymous No.20744338]

>>20744273
Because what it's doing right now is different how? Least I can go to the store without stepping in human shit and being mugged 3 times.

[Anonymous No.20744404]

>>20744079
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgzxSr6l9Y4

[Anonymous No.20744914]

>>20744058
Literally no one in this thread answered my question

How does UBI *not just create a new baseline for poverty*?

>If Poverty is redefined as "Clothed, fed, sheltered, but effectively useless with no future" It's still better than "fucked".

>If they're at least fed and sheltered somewhere they're not in the streets shitting on everything like San Fran.
Giving *everyone* $300 means everyone else's $300 suddenly is worth a little less
Suddenly everyone has $300
Suddenly the worker that would dig up lithium to build your iPhone costs a little more than $10/hour to employ

Suddenly your iPhone costs $5000 rather than $1000
Suddenly McDonalds is completely automated
Suddenly if you dare employ someone you're fucked the wazoo
Suddenly maintenance of all this automation costs a little more than $10/hour to do
Suddenly your hamburger costs $50 rather than $5

Suddenly your $300 grant from the government is worthless

How does UBI not just create a new baseline for poverty? Am I the only one who still remembers what the fuck inflation is? It's unreal how nobody raises this argument, ever, anymore. Has it been completely debunked? I must've missed the memo?

[Anonymous No.20745018]

>>20744914
You're right everything will just go up in cost nullifying the "free" money. Then the government will want to control the price of goods and services. Then you will have full communist hell.

[Anonymous No.20745045]

>>20744914
UBI is taken from the federal budget, not printed out of nowhere like the stimulus checks. If it does cause inflation, it would be very very mild. Go read some books you midwit

[Anonymous No.20745135]

>>20744140
>he thinks he's not low IQ
kek you're on a get rich quick board on a little girl Chinese cartoon imageboard.

[Anonymous No.20745182]

>>20745135
kill yourself commie scum.

[Anonymous No.20745348]

>>20745045
How do you write this
The federal budget's fueled by the federal reserve
We're running a fucking deficit, where is the federal budget pulling all this money out of its ass from?

It's amazing how stupid people have become economically
People are seriously debating UBI and nobody's making the very elementary counter-arguments against it, I almost feel like I'm in the twilight zone, what memo did I miss, how are people taking UBI seriously?

[Anonymous No.20745411]

>>20744193

[Anonymous No.20745698]

>>20744058
that's absolutely what it does
anyone with a job will outbid all the non workers same as before

oh you think rent is going to stay $1000 a month when anyone working part time can out bid you for it and can pay $1200?
now what are you gunna do with your $1k cuck check? live at the bus station?

[Anonymous No.20745799]

It's complicated. If your currency is strong enough on the world stage, especially to the point where it's used as a reserve currency, then the value of the dollar should still remain strong even with more velocity because so much of the money is being transacted upon outside of the country actually issuing the currency. The value of the USD is largely kept stable by how much it's used outside of the united states.

Now, if you're a country with a weak currency on the global scale it becomes difficult to pull off without creating a new baseline. Not impossible, but it just creates an extra issue to face. Because if your currency is used mostly within your country and nowhere else, then you do risk devaluing your own currency.

But there is no yes or no answer to this, because like any economic question, the answer that's correct in a vacuum may not be correct when accounting for the multiple gears and levers in the overarching economic landscape that influence the outcome. Even in the perfect scenario, human psychology is almost impossible to properly account for and the collective actions of individual consumers may completely make or break the results. It's why economists (aside from personal greed) are so hesitant to distribute stimulus to the masses and instead focus it up at the top; there's better control for how that money is shifted around (hypothetically). If the fed gives stimulus out to consumers directly and none for the top, they'd expect consumers to feed that money to the top with newfound economic confidence. But if that confidence is not found, all those funds given will remain locked up and hoarded to cushion economic disaster.

Despite what either side says, there really is no clear answer to this. It sucks for everyone and it sucks for those making the decisions. People are stupid and deciding which group of morons to trust is hard. Getting the decision wrong can have consequences ranging from a small booboo to the total collapse of an empire.

[Anonymous No.20746152]

>>20744140
We need someone to clean the bathrooms and flip my burgers and I sure as shit aint doing it

[Anonymous No.20746181]

>>20744058
Prices out illegals. If weak hands trump wont remove 40 million unneeded workers than the people should have some way to price them out.

[Anonymous No.20746246]

It does.

[Anonymous No.20746335]

>>20745045
It’s not like we have a gross deficit or anything

[Anonymous No.20746402]

>>20746335
seems like we just did a nationwide test of a basic income and prices didnt shoot to the roof

[Anonymous No.20746474]

>>20745348
Inflation is caused by printing new money. UBI could be largely funded by just scrapping the current welfare system, no extra money printing required. Funneling all current entitlements spending into UBI alone would be enough to give every adult in the US around $500/month without printing a single dollar more than we were already going to anyway.

[Anonymous No.20746500]

>>20746402
Because we're literally in a depression retard
Businesses would literally all go bankrupt had the purchasing power not been artificially created

If you make these checks permanent can you not see how salaries would have to outbid this check in order for it to be attractive enough to do the labour? Also, it'd have to pay a whole lot more because you're literally giving up time and freedom for some additional money, some wouldn't make that sacrifice if the money wasn't much more

If you made these checks permanent can you not see the economic impact?

[Anonymous No.20746529]

>>20746500
stop typing out essays I do not care boot licker. go suck off the gop for the crumbs you are so grateful for

[Anonymous No.20746544]

>>20744058
It will

[Anonymous No.20746580]

>>20744140
Because that's everyone sub 130 iq, litteraly 99% of the population

[Anonymous No.20746620]

>>20744079
fpbp

[Anonymous No.20746690]

>>20746529
i care imbecille
don't respond

[Anonymous No.20746755]

>>20746500
>If you make these checks permanent can you not see how salaries would have to outbid this check in order for it to be attractive enough to do the labour?
First, they don't need to outbid shit. It's UBI, it's not an either/or.

Second, yes, employers should have to offer terms of employment that are attractive to the employee. Rather than offering poverty wages and appalling labor conditions and knowing people will eat the shit sandwich because it's marginally better than starving and freezing to death under an expressway bridge.

[Anonymous No.20746810]

>>20744914
OP, I think it creates a baseline for poverty in the same way that the current welfare system does.

However, that's actually what it's supposed to do. It's not supposed to make things great all of a sudden. It's supposed to prevent >>20744193
from happening.

So UBI should be kind of a boring thing. Basically a reorganized version of unemployment welfare. Hell, if it cuts the bureaucracy down, why not. I doubt it would. Maybe if you make it like a tax credit. Warren Buffett actually had a good idea with the "earned income tax credit" or whatever it's called, for poor working class people.

Like most of this board I'm a right-of-center guy, but realistically, it's probably good to have a moderate left to keep the drooling nogs pacified, or to keep the hardcore Nazis from starting some blitzkrieg civil war.

Unless the left goes full Commie tho, then of course you gotta go full Nazi

[Anonymous No.20746817]

>>20746500
$1k a month isn't nearly enough to live on in 99% of the US. People would still have to work. If those businesses are paying so poorly that people would rather cut their losses and live on $12k a year than work for them, then maybe they shouldn't be in business to begin with.

[Anonymous No.20746869]

>>20744058
UBI requires extensive capital controls.
It's putting the cart before the horse.
Ever see the dave chappelle episode on reparations?
If UBI is ever implemented, Apple, Nike, and Coca Cola stocks are going through the roof.

[Anonymous No.20746873]

>>20744079
Lmao kys. UBI is communism and will wholly be synthesized into rent costs, food costs, clothes costs

[Anonymous No.20746905]

Yes, it will just be a new baseline poverty, with one big difference: dissidents or undesirables or people who don't want to be a part of the system will be even more fucked be they won't receive the UBI and therefor will be even further BELOW the baseline.

[Anonymous No.20746928]

>>20746181
kinda best political argument for UBI
the economics are uncertain and probably unhelpful except for creating a real reason to keep other kids out of the club
and hence, have a reason to, together, improve our club as well

[Anonymous No.20747226]

>>20745348
I was a recipient of a minimum income. College paid for. Earned two degrees, held many jobs because the minimum is not "enough" for extras.

For me, it's the idiots like you who are the problem. The fair price of free labor is considered to high a price? Look around you. Coersion and exploitation everywhere. Significant labor and maker distortions. Corporations getting all the benefits and leaving as soon as they can.

Already presented all the math that shows a universal minimum would pay for all existing subsidy rackets... Freeing people from being forced to work, preventing homelessness. But you idiots just aren't ready. It's a conundrum I guess. I really think Im surrounded by idiocracy... Its a paradox. Dumb people need free education, they need to be free to get it. They need security to develop a sustainable society. But these idiots rise up every time and shoot it down... Because they're stupid, full of fear, and can't imagine anything else.

T. Got minimum income and free education... And trying pro bono to lift brainlets out of this shit economy...

[Anonymous No.20747294]

>>20747226
yeah it baffles me too. It's like everytime you propose you shouldn't be a slave for some pisspoor wage(of course they will tell you their wage is not piss poor or to GET SOME SKILLS!!!!1) they call you a communist and start talking about the bill of rights. Its bizarre

[Anonymous No.20747350]

>>20746181
This is what you get when you destroy the market for free labor

>>20746402
It was a retarded giveaway. Tons of people who have printed from the existing exploitation economy were just given $1000s to pay the landlords and keep them in the plantation style they're accustomed to.

It should be minimum income with qualifications... But they are pushing universal and basic because they know if they th and means test rich people how offended they will be. Plus all the really mean spirited middling classes would object because they don't really believe in a social economy, or a welfare state.

[Anonymous No.20747462]

>>20746500
The pandemic is just something all smart and educated people knew were coming and had prepared financially and psychologically. But there is a large class of people who are just loaded with debt and making just enough on their exploitation of labor to squeak by. Everyone looked at people on the ground during Katrina, and thought why didn't they escape? Now it's pants down time for a very large middling class, only they have political capital, and the way they use it is to get bailouts, from the party that has been doing the raping all along & would never let a spending bill pass without screaming about a deficit.

[Anonymous No.20747505]

>>20746869
That's why it should be a cash payment of a truly minimum amount. People will still work because no one is satisfied with the minimum which can't get you all the other stupid shit

[Anonymous No.20747627]

>>20744914
It depends to a large degree on how people handle and use their $300. Some people you give them $3000 p/m for nothing, they are still gonna end up 'in poverty' The baseline for poverty is (always..) having insufficient resources to cater for your actual day-to-day need. And some people are going to live like that no matter how much you give them. The problem with UBI - maybe the main problem - it assumes its recipients are responsible and will spend their $300 on rent before coke n hookers. But I don't agree it would contribute greatly to inflation, as has been claimed here. As stimulus checks demonstrated, it remains literally not enough to make all that much difference.

[Anonymous No.20747710]

>>20747226
I just don't understand why you would need a UBI in America
Unless you have some disability that makes you unworkworthy, you can make so much in America for so little living cost
I work at a friggin burger flipping place myself and I'm usually able to save half my income
How is only needing to work half the actual year not allow you enough time to work on yourself?
Granted, I'm very lazy so I don't want to do jobs that pay more money for harder work like in a warehouse, even my friends who make more money than I do simply spend it all away, though they're definitely never in danger of starving but by their own doing

[Anonymous No.20747828]

>>20744058
We already have a UBI in the form of welfare and inefficient social services. A flat rate UBI for all or a negative tax bracket would still be cheaper than paying hundreds of thousands of government workers to finger thier buttholes all day.

[Anonymous No.20747834]

>>20744140
Low IQs are also better than you at breeding

[Anonymous No.20747873]

What's pissing me off the most is the fact that no one is talking intelligently about while it's literally being implemented in an ad hoc way.

I have to remember how slow witted the body politic is these days... It will probably take another 10 years until problems are really bad to get a fair hearing

There is one dude who has Patreon'd himself to a basic income but I have no idea what his messaging is like. I think it's crucial to frame it as welfare and not subsidy. Because UBI is patently stupid, for example giving people who don't need help with the current stimulus payment

[Anonymous No.20747878]

>>20744147
Based and 'democracy the god that failed' pilled. Monarchy or bust.

[Anonymous No.20747882]

>>20744273
Western civilisation is already on its deathbed.

[Anonymous No.20747951]

>>20745348
Even if they printed new money and it caused inflation, who is it going to harm really? The plebs, or the 0.1% who have 90% of the wealth?

[Anonymous No.20748178]

>>20747834
Well no shit, Dumbass... we need a containment board for IQfags

[Anonymous No.20748221]

>>20746905
>Yes, it will just be a new baseline poverty
Let's assume you're right (you aren't), what's the problem here?

[Anonymous No.20748402]

>just keep the nigger parasite alive

[Anonymous No.20748416]

>>20744147
Pretty much this. I'm comfortably "middle class", and by no means need a UBI but I recognize that, unless I become fabulously rich anytime soon, the UBI checks will be a net benefit for me. In the absolute worst case scenario, the cost of everyday goods and services will simply rise to eat up the UBI policy - but I'm not convinced that this is the case, because it seems unlikely that the demand for (for instance) food, gasoline, and clothes will suddenly skyrocket beyond current levels just because people have a bit more pocket change.

Whenever we hear about tax breaks for billionaires, expanded military budgets, or trillions of dollars in federal printing to prop up the stock market, it simply gets passed into law without so much as a fucking discussion among the plebs. But whenever anything is proposed that might possibly help out the middle and lower classes, it's instantly met with a cacophony of "HOW WE GON' PAY FER IT?" It's funny how this question is never fucking asked when it comes to the military, bailouts for Wall Street, corporate welfare, tax breaks that overwhelmingly benefit the oligarch class, etc. only for things that us non-uber-rich people might possibly benefit from

[Anonymous No.20748563]

>>20747951
>>20747882
>>20747878


It's ultimately a cart and horse problem. You need the minimum income to gain the skills and understand the solution and the problem.

Get the total amount of subsidizes for all existing benefit schemes, and compare it to the number of people receiving benefits multipled by the income figure ($1k). The numbers are comparable. E.g., you get the same benefit by a cash payment than paying for all the bureaucracy of each subsidy individually. Except in this case, you've made the free market for labor possible, which is what ultimately takes the lid off what a free market economy is supposed to do (right now it's a racket driven by sunk investments in the distorted 'un-free' labor markets)

[Anonymous No.20748762]

>>20744273

ubi doesn't create incentive to be a hobo lol

You think someone making even 20k/yr would quit their job and live off 1k/month?

[Anonymous No.20748816]

>>20744914

Inflation in the classical sense isn't real. USA just printed 7 trilly out of thin air and nothing happened. The money is there, give it to the workers

[Anonymous No.20749184]

>>20748221

The problem is that if you don't have UBI, the baseline is zero which means people are consider "undesirable" by the system can still find ways to survive. If the new baseline starts at lets say $500, that means people who aren't obedient to the government will be starting at -$500 basically. It basically means most things are the same except you are now at the mercy of a nanny state providing you your baseline, rather than the baseline just naturally being available to everyone because it's 0.

[Anonymous No.20749344]

>>20744140

If there's no poor people than the better-off people become worse and everyone except the top get's knocked down a peg in the social order.

It's easy to knock the poors when you have more money than them, but once they are gone than you are suddenly closer to being the poors yourself and now YOU are the one stigmatized for being lazy and dumb, because it's all relative you see.

[Anonymous No.20749449]

>>20744140
t. useless low IQ person

[Anonymous No.20749572]

>>20744058
It does. R*ddit thinks UBI is some revolutionary new idea but it's been rehashed for decades. Millenials are the worst generation. So, so stupid.

[Anonymous No.20749851]

There is no reason to be optimistic or pessimistic.

Although Trump is digging a trench between us, and shovelling your cash payments into it and lightning it on fire, he can't bankrupt us all fast enough to make the distance between us too great to cross.

Talk to a low IQ person today. And talk to a rich person... especially if it's your congressman or senator, about a minimum income benefit package.

Do it today.

[Anonymous No.20749854]

>retards think that budget-neutral ubi would cause inflation
Inflation happens when the money printer goes brrrr. If you can do ubi without creating more money out of thin air, then inflation will not happen.

[Anonymous No.20749855]

>>20744140
i support this only so u die

[Anonymous No.20749940]

>>20749854
Threadly reminder that PPP and this stimulus is largely benefiting the existing stakeholders.

While crowds mythologize and demonize the elites are happy a

[Anonymous No.20750017]

Biden can't campaign on it but he will be able to reform whatever Trump puts in place

Probably get a few interesting finance heads in there. So maybe optimism is warranted.

[Anonymous No.20750169]

>>20748416
Not only it's going to cause a price rise but it will allow politicians to play sim city , 6 months after ubi there will be a ubi for women a ubi for blacks and a negative ubi for white people , screencap this.

[Anonymous No.20750339]

>>20750169
That can't happen because it contradicts the white privilege meme

Don't worry whites will get a minimum income too

[Anonymous No.20750357]

>>20745799
good points.
Feels like there's way more to the picture though, as you say

[Anonymous No.20750381]

I think theres enough money and wealth in the world for everybody to be a millionaire, but the jews wont let this happen

[Anonymous No.20750451]

>>20744914
But 300 a month is more than 0. Poverty's baseline is low enough that it won't effect anything. There is still a huge power gap between middle class and 20k or less a year. A bigger power gap even still between middle and upper.

[Anonymous No.20750457]

>>20744079
How will you be able to affor clothes, shelter and food when the new baseline is 1k a month? That makes no sense. Homeless people make 10-20 dollars a day panhandling. 300 dollars will just become the equivalent of chump change for hobos.

[Anonymous No.20750562]

>>20746873

UBI isn’t communism or even socialism it’s a last gasp attempt to keep capitalism propped up, its a libertarian capitalist idea, it does not address class hierarchies or the relations of production or anything else

[Anonymous No.20750568]

>>20750339
>it contradicts
No it does not that will be the justification. White people owe black people reparations and it will be done via UBI. White people are privileged and obviously don't need the money as much as shitskins do. Thus a negative UBI unless you are unemployed.

[Anonymous No.20750659]

>>20750381
>everybody becomes a millionaire
>suddenly nobody comes into work
>suddenly labor costs 200k an hour
>suddenly products cost 200k to cover the cost of labor

[Anonymous No.20750722]

>>20750659
You would still have like 600k left

[Anonymous No.20750757]

>>20750562
These people think that "communism" just means "the government existing and doing literally anything" lol

[Anonymous No.20750784]

>>20750562
>ubi is libertarian
Its a purely communist idea. Equalization via goverment oversight. It directly addresses class hierarchies. The entire point is to help the poor. The money for this program is not going to come out of thin air. 1) it will be printed = inflation
2) taken directly from the rich which would mean in reality the rich and upper class workers will have a negative UBI. You lost 50k and get 300 dollars.

[Anonymous No.20750852]

>>20750757
Communism is the attempt to equalize without effort, the economy for everyone. The concept is practically communism. It creates a pool of wealth that is evenly distributed among everyone equally. Very much like communists ideals of production ownership.

[Anonymous No.20750882]

Currency devaluation only hurts those with currency to begin with annon.

[Anonymous No.20750893]

>>20750784

No it isn’t. There is no equalization actually happening it’s a smokescreen to pacify the masses so they don’t revolt. This is welfare capitalism. The workers don’t own the means of production the power is still in the hands of the exact same ruling class

[Anonymous No.20750931]

>>20750784
Communism means that the workers have collective ownership over businesses and factories. It has literally nothing to do with UBI. Every single country in the world, on some level, has taxation and redistribution via social programs. That doesn't mean that every country is communist. UBI is no more 'communist' than public schools or universal healthcare which is a common feature of every developed capitalist country in the world (excluding the USA)

[Anonymous No.20750938]

>>20750722
I just bought a pair of shoes for 200k, but hey at least I have 600k left. I might be able to buy some groceries with that because the farmers also need to be paid 200k an hour for them to even consider bothering to work.

[Anonymous No.20750944]

>>20750562
This. They know that this shit is collapsing. The whole system relies of keeping people consuming and keeping people wage slaves.

[Anonymous No.20750954]

>>20744140
how does someone lurk biz and not have even a child's grasp of economics? oh shit wait

[Anonymous No.20751014]

>>20750784
money would be taken from VAT, everyone receives UBI so you'd have to spend a specific amount on consumption to lose overall. at that point you're doing well enough it doesnt really matter. cuts down on waste in stupid programs like welfare, let the poorfags decide what to do with their government money

[Anonymous No.20751017]

>>20750568
They gonna make people get genome tested before getting a payout? Or is it if you just 'look' black?

[Anonymous No.20751034]

>>20744058
Let's say there are 100 people.
1 of them makes $1000/yr
9 of them make $100/yr
The other 90 make $1/yr
Total/yr: $1990
Now you introduce UBI: you give everyone an extra $1 per year, even if you print the money (which you dont have to, see below), that's only $100, i.e. 5% more, but now 90% of your people have twice the money to spend, and since they are still poor they'll spend it all and drive the economy, which in turn makes you able to collect more tax, and pay more UBI.

[Anonymous No.20751056]

>>20750893
At what point does it become communistic? Taxing everyone who makes over 200k a 90% income tax so that you can give poor niggers money? Thats not communistic at all nope. Steal from the rich and give to the poor through the use of goverment.

As far as welfare goes though I'd rather have UBI then any other welfare programs. I actually think UBI would be amazing so long as all the other welfare programs were eliminated.

You'd still get faggot leftists complaining when niggers spend it all on drugs and jordans and then starve to death.

[Anonymous No.20751094]

>>20751034
fucking thank you

[Anonymous No.20751144]

>>20744058
UBI is codeword for more Corporate socialism

Let me lay down for u plebs
>give a bunch of dumb low iq jeets 1000 dollars a month
>yo yo muh niqqa i want dem new nikes
>dawg dat new iphone out mmm me neeed it good
>spends all money on consumer goods
>mega corps laughing all the way to the bank

The problem is people are so fundamentally brainwashed by corporate media that they will blow it all buying useful gizmos and clothing shit.

UBI is fucking dumb unless its strictly given for food, rent and amenities

[Anonymous No.20751189]

>>20751014
>implying people would stop using welfare
Why would they do that?
>implying a political party would willingly give up specialized welfare programs
99% no.

>VAT
What a horrible and shit idea. The tax increases needed to pull this off would make the entire point of UBI useless. It would increase the general cost of goods. Meaning people with jobs get fucked just a little harder by the goverment. People who own small business also get fucked harder.

It would be much better if the income welfare was sourced from income tax.

[Anonymous No.20751190]

>>20751056
>At what point does it become communistic?
When companies and factories become worker-owned cooperatives.
Anything less than that is literally not communism, it's just welfare capitalism aka social democracy.

[Anonymous No.20751214]

>>20744140
>Why not let these useless low IQ people die off. It will only strengthen the gene pool.
How low is your IQ?

[Anonymous No.20751262]

>>20751144
EBT payments still used to trade for drugs or buy unhealthy shit like cheetos. Spending money on useless shit is a drug especially for the poor

[Anonymous No.20751286]

>>20751144
In the end the most important question of UBI is where they are going to get the money for it. If it comes directly out of the elites pockets they aren't really making any more money then they would have, it just changes hands meaning more competition.

Our clown world economy is already dependent on a never ending increase in the supply of worker slave consumers so giving them more consuming power would actually be a good thing for this shit economy. Still, it would not be a fix, just a band aid. Its not a final solution.

[Anonymous No.20751309]

>>20751144
At what point does UBI require that tenants should not get evicted for withholding rent? How is it they survive without eating? Who in their right mind will prioritise buying the new iPhone without paying for an internet connection? These things always come first. Adding fuel to the economic fire is extremely required as late capitalism, with vast wealth divides, loses out on the efficiencies of free market.

[Anonymous No.20751338]

>>20751189
give people the choice between $1k a month or food stamps. what do you think they'll pick?

[Anonymous No.20751377]

>>20744058

It does. It’s also what brought down Rome. See: Bread and Circus
Bread and Circus

[Anonymous No.20751382]

>>20751190
If a factory has 100% of its profits taken by the goverment and then distributed to the citizens equally, how is that not the exact same thing?

Only giving people who work in the factory ownership of the factory is unfair as many people may be unable to work in that factory. What if that factory is so efficient and good that the people working their are rich compared to everyone else. You know have classes of society again. Congrats, you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.20751413]

>>20751309
>At what point does UBI require that tenants should not get evicted for withholding rent? How is it they survive without eating? Who in their right mind will prioritise buying the new iPhone without paying for an internet connection?

you vastly underestimate how dumb and short sighted ghetto hood rats can be

[Anonymous No.20751493]

>>20751413
'can be' or 'all are'. Yes, I am aware of outliers.

[Anonymous No.20751497]

>>20751338
Give people the choice between food stamps, free phones, healthcare, housing assistance and child welfare or 1k and even porch monkeys would pick the former.

[Anonymous No.20751531]

>>20751493
All are. You're a sheltered white boy. You have no idea how retarded niggers are. They are basically children.

[Anonymous No.20751586]

>>20751413
>I can only afford to save $100 a month, in 10 months I'll have $1000 :]
Hard to not be short sighted here

[Anonymous No.20751687]

>>20751531
>>20751497
are they retarded or are they not? cash is a lot more attractive than "trust us, these terribly operated programs will help you not be poor anymore!"

[Anonymous No.20751813]

>>20751382
>If a factory has 100% of its profits taken by the goverment and then distributed to the citizens equally, how is that not the exact same thing?

It's welfare capitalism, not communism as described by any actual communist. I guess literally every developed country is communist because they have things like unemployment benefits, universal healthcare, public schools, and welfare programs. After all, you're talking about TaXiNg and ReDiStRiBuTinG resources!! Damn, I guess 'communism' isn't so bad if every single wealthy and developed nation on earth subscribes to it already.

[Anonymous No.20751853]

>>20751497
>>20751531
did you not turn off your phone's wifi when you tried to larp both sides of the argument?

[Anonymous No.20751856]

>>20751382
Also nobody's proposing that factories be nationalized to pay for UBI, that's just a strawman that you pulled out of your ass

[Anonymous No.20752652]

>>20751286
>In the end the most important question of UBI is where they are going to get the money for it.
A lot of the social safety nets in place now (welfare, etc) would go away with UBI. If everyone's getting $12k/year, there's no need for welfare anymore.

[Anonymous No.20752750]

>>20744058
because it constantly adjusts and not a set value that allows people the right to live?

Do you think in 3000 years, when we are transversing through space, people won't care about people?

Right now my shirt is probably made by a child getting paid 10 cents a week

[Anonymous No.20753634]

>>20749184
And?

[Anonymous No.20753698]

>>20744140
>Why not let these useless low IQ people die off.
Because they keep breeding

[Anonymous No.20753928]

>>20751144
What's the problem? We already let any retard vote for Trump against their own interests, why can't Jamal vote with his Ubi bucks?

[Anonymous No.20754565]

>>20744058
it is a step towards a society that doesn't use money in any form. a.k.a communism

[Anonymous No.20754856]

>>20744079
Fpbp