Let's say I deposit £1k on binance. Through many trades, I manage to work my way up to £10k. Given that the capital gains allowance is £12,300 per year, can I just cash out £5k and put them in the bank?

File: 43 KB, 1200x801, UK-flag-Union-Jack-featured (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 15:53:13 2020 No.20358967 [Reply] [Original]

Let's say I deposit £1k on binance. Through many trades, I manage to work my way up to £10k.
Given that the capital gains allowance is £12,300 per year, can I just cash out £5k and put them in the bank?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 15:54:15 2020 No.20358992 just buy rlc and hold for a 10 way betrter chanc e of making x10 than gambling on 1m charts

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 15:55:56 2020 No.20359038 >>20358967 Plz tell us how you will 10x your profit

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 15:57:25 2020 No.20359072 File: 403 KB, 1108x1365, BF8A2A3C-A716-43AA-8863-473039464771.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20359038 you tell me

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 15:59:58 2020 No.20359141 >>20359038 ARPA and RLC. I'm just wondering if the number of trades matter as long as one is below the capital gains allowance

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 16:08:24 2020 No.20359412 bump

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 16:09:46 2020 No.20359454 File: 6 KB, 400x400, BThHHQCk_400x400.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20358967 Stop using Binance. Use Phemex.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 16:30:34 2020 No.20360049 >>20359454 How does that answer my question?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 16:40:08 2020 No.20360285 >>20358967 HMRC does not care about 10k This is peasant tier monies Take whatever you want out of exchange and put in Fiat bank

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 16:40:10 2020 No.20360288 >>20358967 crypto to crypto is taxed depends if HMRC decide to get nosy

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 16:52:45 2020 No.20360643 Can people provide a link where it explicitly says that crypto to crypto is taxed. There is a section for trading, but if I'm swinging my link once in 6 months I don't see it being applicable

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 16:55:52 2020 No.20360733 how would they even know if your using a non kyc account

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 16:57:49 2020 No.20360794 >>20358967 Law on crypto is confusing as fuck but if you cash out more than £12,300 profit just get a guy to do the taxes for you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:03:13 2020 No.20360946 >>20360285 They will if you ever make it and look back at all the suspicious money coming from nowhere.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:28:17 2020 No.20361636 Just move to Portugal

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:32:38 2020 No.20361746 >>20360288 So if I lose money on a trade I owe them taxes on that too? What if I make no profit or loss on a trade? What if my scalps make 1% only? Do the maths retard. There is no way you get taxed on trades

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:32:44 2020 No.20361747 >>20358967 You can cash out up to the cgt limit, yes.

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:34:38 2020 No.20361793

>>20360643
https://koinly.io/guides/hmrc-cryptocurrency-tax-guide/
>Individuals that hold crypto as a personal investment will be liable to pay capital gains tax when they dispose of their cryptocurrency. 'Disposal' has been defined by the HMRC as:
>exchanging crypto assets for a different type of crypto asset

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:35:15 2020 No.20361813

>>20358967
you taxed every time you trade; if you are taxed 10% for example, then each time you trade, you essentially lose 10% of your stack regardless of how much you made in the trade. within 50 trades not only will you have lose your original stack, but you will owe the taxman tens of thousands of dollars and will have bankrupted yourself

this is the reality these faggots are not prepared to confront

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:36:42 2020 No.20361861 >>20361746 Crypto to crypto is taxed. See: >>20361746 That's how I'm going to claim a massive loss with Ampleforth despite making a 3x.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:37:22 2020 No.20361879 >>20361813 >this is the reality these faggots are not prepared to confront it's also unenforceable

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:37:57 2020 No.20361894 >>20361636 This

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:39:12 2020 No.20361924 >>20361747 Regardless of the trades? >>20360288 Yes but if the sun of all crypto to crypto taxes is less than £12.3 k then it's fine?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:40:18 2020 No.20361949 Can you include crypto in stocks and shares isa?

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:40:43 2020 No.20361965

>>20361924
Should be fine. I'd run it through koinly.io and double check though.

Remember you can knock off expenses like trading fees, gas etc. If you made a loss in 2018/2019 tax year when crypto was taking a shit you can declare that as a loss to be used to knock off some CGT indefinitely.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:40:53 2020 No.20361969 >>20361747 Does your other income factor into the allowance?

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:43:27 2020 No.20362033

>>20361879
its only unenforcable if you never cash out in which case the entire exercise was pointless and you shouldve just sold stamps. if you ever want to use your crypto to buy anything at all, then it immediately becomes enforcable very easily and if you aren't aware of how tax departments work, I guaranfuckingtee you they will enforce it, you are better off owing money to the mafia

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:44:01 2020 No.20362051

>>20358967
My understanding is that, technically, crypto to crypto profits is taxable, and losses are deductible. Hence, all that actually matters is the difference between the amount you've put in vs. the amount you take out. If you put in 6K and take out 10K, that 4K profit is taxable, UNLESS you're under the 10.6K tax free allowance, in which case you pay 0 tax.

Please note I have not really done a thorough check and could well be wrong. If you end out seriously making it, just get an accountant.

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:49:40 2020 No.20362193

>>20362051
I'm hoping I can pool profits. Someday I'll just cash out EVERYTHING, calculate my costs basis, take that away from my cash out value and pay capital gains on the difference.

Some of the exchanges I've used no longer exist so I only have a record of maybe 95% of my trades. If I tried to balance all trades exactly it wouldnt add up.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:50:07 2020 No.20362201 >>20362051 I guess that makes sense, thanks anon

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:50:43 2020 No.20362215 >>20362033 >Buy gift cards with crypto >Use those to buy stuff >Never cash out to bank account

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:51:27 2020 No.20362224 >>20362193 What happens if the exchange no longer has the transaction records?

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:53:36 2020 No.20362276

I realise cashing out in Germany, Portugal etc is tax free. However, say I went to germany, stayed for x months, registered as resident, cashed out, filed tax return for that year (in germany) and returned to UK... would they demand taxes from previous years I'd held the crypto in the UK, BEFORE i went to germany? I've never cashed out, but have traded crypto to crypto, while residing in UK
Rules aren't clear. If it's a case of going to germany to cash out tax free, fuck me i'll do it. Easy.

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:53:39 2020 No.20362279

>>20362051
>>20362193
>>20362201
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2020/jul/14/rishi-sunaks-capital-gains-tax-review-may-usher-in-higher-taxes-on-wealthy

Just a warning guys they're looking to squeeze more out of CGT. Expect them to come down on crypto because 1. the traders haven't really bothered in the past 2. the transaction history can be spotty
that allows them wide latitude to fuck us over so keep your eyes peeled. also they can come after you for these trades 20 years down the line

>>20362224
>Of course, this is crypto—exchanges, many of dubious quality, run by even more dubious individuals, often shut down and scrub their records clean. It isn’t always possible to download your transactions. Tough luck, said Jones. “The onus is on you to keep good records. The Revenue can fine you quite heavily if your records are inadequate.”
https://www.bkl.co.uk/insights/file-crypto-taxes-uk-decrypt/

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:54:53 2020 No.20362302 >>20362193 If you cash out everything you become 100% long on the £, or the $, as someone pointed out the other day

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:55:50 2020 No.20362333 >>20362224 At least 90% are also in delta. I can export a CSV from there if I really need to.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:58:05 2020 No.20362385 >>20362302 Yeah, the plan is to cash out everything when things are getting a bit manic at the top of the next bull run. I'll pay my taxes, split the remaining amount into profit and reinvestment capital.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 17:58:17 2020 No.20362393 >>20362279 Man I hate this country, they don't want anyone to make it. Is there a way to include crypto in a stock and shares isa? Do we know which exchanges they work with? >>20362276 How long would you need to live in Germany? What about Italy?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:00:20 2020 No.20362446 >>20362333 But how do they know whether you've paid properly? Wouldn't you need to send them all the transactions records from the exchange?

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:02:21 2020 No.20362483

>>20362393
>Is there a way to include crypto in a stock and shares isa?
Nope.

They likely have deals with all the western names. Think Cuckbase, Kraken, Poloniex, Coinfloor etc. I wouldn't be surprised if they also have deals with Binance and Bitfinex

also forgot to mention if your trading volume was over 4x the cgt limit you technically also need to report it

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:02:55 2020 No.20362499

>>20362446
I think you send them a report of all your trades.
For each trade:
- Trading pair
- Date/time of trade
- Value in GBP at time of trade
- Profit

I dont think they care were the information you use to create the report comes from as long as it's "accurate"

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:04:55 2020 No.20362555 >>20362499 lads am I supposed to do this even if i'm not hitting the £12000 a year withdrawal thresholds?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:05:15 2020 No.20362563 >>20362483 > if your trading volume was over 4x the cgt limit What's the trading volume limit? >>20362499 Man, fuck this

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:06:09 2020 No.20362585 File: 108 KB, 500x527, yryrry.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20358967 > wants to invest in crypto > is british Do you have a license for dat?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:06:50 2020 No.20362601 >>20362555 no, just ignore it below the threshold. Keep records though because hopefully someday you will.

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:08:46 2020 No.20362646
File: 203 KB, 1012x1308, 5e51d695258ffe21c88724ab_IRS Form 8949.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20362499
yeah pretty much this. i've attached a burger example but the principle are the same

>>20362563
CGT limit is 12k for the last tax yr. if the total volume of your trades was greater than 48k in value (even though you might not have made over 12k profit) you technically need to report it

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:08:47 2020 No.20362647 >>20362563 >Man, fuck this I have over 700 trades right now. Really hoping one of these automated report tools produce something that HMRC will find acceptable. If not I'll create an app for all you UK bros.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:09:55 2020 No.20362676 >>20362647 What services have you tried mate? Cointracking wants you to pay up if you want to use an API so fuck that

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:10:09 2020 No.20362686 What if one uses localbitcoins atm to cash out cash?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:11:17 2020 No.20362705 >>20362676 Nothing yet as I'm still under the £12k threshold too, but just making a note of all the options. Someone posted https://koinly.io above which looks promising. It states that it supports HMRC and is free. win win.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:11:17 2020 No.20362707 >>20362686 hope you never deposit it in your bank because it'll probably trigger some AML investigation

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:12:26 2020 No.20362743

>>20362393
Some EU countries are CG tax free on crypto cashouts. Germany and Portugal are completely tax free (if you're a resident when you cash out and haven't moved the crypto for a year). Not sure about Italy, although I doubt it, as I'd sooner go there than Germany. Just google it.

In Germany, you have to reside there 3 months before you can apply for residency. In theory you could rent a room, open a bank account, piss off back to UK, then 3 months later apply for residency in germany. Once you get the residency approved, you're a german citizen. You find an accountant there and file a tax return for the 2 million euros you just cashed into your german bank account. Tax would be zero. You send your 2M to your UK bank account, you go back to the UK and the UK taxman can't touch you, as you have paid all the taxes due for that accounting period (ie zero pc in germany).
It's a nice idea, but i've never met anyone who did it. We'll prob be the first...

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:12:47 2020 No.20362752 >>20358967 Yes, but you have to complete a self-assessment declaration at the end of the tax year. (pay an accountant about £250-500 to do it) or phone HMRC.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:13:25 2020 No.20362766 >>20362705 >free yeah until you want to generate the tax report, and then it's time to pay up goy https://koinly.io/pricing/ 99 bucks for 1k txns seems okay though, other sites want 150+ for that level of service

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:14:26 2020 No.20362790 >>20362752 Do I have to fill out a self assessment or can I use the real time CGT reporting service?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:16:14 2020 No.20362835 >>20362766 If I'm cashing out millions I can spare 99 quid

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:17:43 2020 No.20362882 Curveball. How do I report AMPL rebases in my tax report. Is that a daily trade?

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:19:52 2020 No.20362942

DOing your own tax return is a ballache. You can end up ripping yourself off as you don;t know what you can get away with. Add to this that a professional accountant is less likely to attract interest from authorities than matey boy, and it's worth every penny of 300 quid to employ an accountant.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:21:19 2020 No.20362974 >>20362882 I'm reporting it as a daily airdrop. Funnily enough because it was airdropped at a high price and I sold it all off last night at $2 my net position is a loss

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:23:46 2020 No.20363046 >>20362743 >You send your 2M to your UK bank account, you go back to the UK and the UK taxman can't touch you, as you have paid all the taxes due for that accounting period (ie zero pc in germany) Jesus Christ that sound fucking beautiful

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:24:53 2020 No.20363069 >>20362752 Do I have to do that even if I don't cash out? i.e. the cash is on the exchange

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:25:17 2020 No.20363079 >>20362276 Yes, you need to be non-resident for 5 years. After that no tax in the UK

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:25:23 2020 No.20363083 >>20363046 https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:26:51 2020 No.20363122 >>20363079 But I can still come back here and live in my UK property? Just not 'resident' ie registered to vote etc?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:27:20 2020 No.20363137 >>20363079 >Yes, you need to be non-resident for 5 years. After that no tax in the UK What do you mean? >>20363083 What?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:28:04 2020 No.20363159 >>20362743 This is not true. If you return to the UK within 5 years as a resident you'll be taxed

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:28:24 2020 No.20363164

>>20362835
You’ll be spending a fortune. So many glowies in here encouraging tax. I’m Europe so why the fuck would anyone when they can literally just move to a tax haven cash out enough to live and keep the rest in defi? Central banks just want to fuck you and the governments are helping. Use defi, their reign is over thank god.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:29:34 2020 No.20363189 >>20363159 Easy sorted, just retain the german residency, but I can still go to UK, surely?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:35:37 2020 No.20363323 >>20363189 You're automatically tax resident in the UK if you spend more than 183 days of the year here. After that point you're breaking the law and if they find out they'll make you pay the tax.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:43:10 2020 No.20363502 >>20363323 Happy to spend less than 183 days there. I hate the Winter. Thailand and Australia can have me. I'll pop home for Summer. Nice one. 5 years of that sounds perfect.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:43:53 2020 No.20363520 >>20361969 If you've paid income tax on it, no. If you set up a business and pay yourself a dividend as your income to avoid income tax then that would eat in to your capital gains allowance.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 18:53:01 2020 No.20363714 >>20363520 >pay yourself a dividend as your income to avoid income tax Fuck

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 19:05:04 2020 No.20363983 bump

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 19:12:09 2020 No.20364153 I have an isle of man passport, i don't suppose they're much better with this? Hoping i can just run home if I make it

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 19:23:46 2020 No.20364414

>>20362393
I can’t tell if you have legit conviction. Based from your responses you seem relatively low IQ. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Hargreaves Lansdowne, if you have a UK pension you can get bitcoin exposure through the Swedish btc ETN, also investable as you will with your loose GBP. No ISA for you unfortunately with this instrument. Pay your tax or fuck off for 5 years. Best of luck getting any sort of financial leverage after that on your adulated return to the banks with no job or 5 credit history. Plan accordingly.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 19:36:02 2020 No.20364728 File: 191 KB, 2516x1600, log.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>20358967 Why use binance and pay for trading fees when you can use Phemex and pay no fees?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 19:46:13 2020 No.20364961 >>20358967 Use your crypto to buy gold. Sell gold (Gold is CGT free). Congrats, you win.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 19:48:56 2020 No.20365037 Thread hijack: is there any alternative to revolut as they are charging additional fees on monthly exchanges over £1000 after August and GBP -> revolut -> EUR -> coinbase has been the standard method for years now.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 19:52:29 2020 No.20365106 >>20364728 Zero-fee Spot Trading is only open to Phemex Premium or Premium Trial users!

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 19:53:20 2020 No.20365126 What happens if i just use a crypto card for everything? I.e I put all the profit on my crypto card and deposit it all to my robinhood account or buy stuff on amazon. How can they tax that?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:01:14 2020 No.20365286 >>20365037 CB allows FPS deposits haven't used the revolut -> EUR -> CB deposit method in years

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:04:02 2020 No.20365346 >>20365126 what card? BRB be your own bank BRB your coins are with a 3rd party custodial scam service (e.g if you mean crypto.com card)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:05:09 2020 No.20365368 >>20365346 It doesn't matter the point is, how can they tax that?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:09:45 2020 No.20365465 >>20360288 Crypto to crypto is not taxed in the UK.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:13:27 2020 No.20365545 >>20365465 Scrap that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:14:13 2020 No.20365558 So apparently you can buy gold with bitcoin? And selling gold is absolutely tax free? Why isn't everyone doing that?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:17:13 2020 No.20365613 >>20365558 >And selling gold is absolutely tax free? *selling gold coins (and if you're a britbong only british legal tender, e.g. 1oz britannias)

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:18:37 2020 No.20365647 >>20358967 IF YOU MAKE AN ISA ACCOUNT YOU DONT PAY TAX UPTO 20K

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:35:04 2020 No.20366022 >stablecoin >mixer >monero >gold >start online ecommerce biz now

Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:36:37 2020 No.20366047
File: 126 KB, 618x1024, 1594570293903.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>20365647
That's irrelevant to crypto brainlet you can't have crypto in an ISA

I think everyone in this thread is seriously overestimating HMRCs ability to fuck you over. They are dependent on people living in fear and paying tax like a good little cuck but in reality they have very little power as long as you are clever about how you plan your trades and cash outs. DO NOT PAY TAX- you are supporting a corrupt system that wants you dead and replaced with niggers and shitskins

My advice:

Use decentralised exchanges like forkdelta (idex is OK but they make you KYC if you trade large volumes)
Wait for decentralised solutions to cash out large sums to fiat (linkpal etc)
Buy things directly with your crypto (gold and silver britannias are tax free when you sell), bullion, electronics
Get members of your family that you can trust to cash out below the annual CGT limit
Plan your cash outs to make maximum use of your allowances
Set up a company and pay yourself a salary in crypto
Claim you won your crypto on an online gambling site and cash out/use EV betting to cash out with a legitimate paper trail
Wait for fiat currency to collapse (this is unironically happening in the next 5 years)

There are so many options available to you. All are superior to paying tax to this corrupt government

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:39:37 2020 No.20366100 >>20366047 >Buy things directly with your crypto (gold and silver britannias are tax free when you sell doesn't the dealer rat you out for AML if you buy above a certain amount?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:40:42 2020 No.20366118 >>20365037 I use monzo anon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jul 14 20:41:48 2020 No.20366144 >>20366100 Possibly but just break your orders up into chunks then and buy from different dealers

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