Has Fear of Student Loans Gone Too Far?

[Anonymous No.1972036]

There's a common theme in many high school personal finance classes and that theme is the fear of student loan debt. With popular influencers like David Ramsey often speaking about how horrible any kind of debt is and putting much emphasis on student load debt I believe that these sort of "influencers" are having a negative affect on those with the potential to go to college and be successful.

I was speaking with a friend that will be graduating high school this May and she wants to go to college, she has good grades, over 1100 on the SAT, has passion for what she wants to do, and is an overall good student, but she's deathly afraid of student loans. For the college she wants to go to it would cost her $60000 to get the degree she wants and she's terribly scared of the loans she'll have to pay off that she was actually considering not going to college.

The job she wants is to be a practitioner which according to the BLS has an average yearly salary of almost $100,000 a year. I told her that if she believes she has the potential and is willing to stick with the degree than she can easily pay off that debt in a few years, yet, she's still very scared of simply having the debt at all.
I've also noticed more recently that some of my friends about to graduate from high school that also have the potential to do well in college and want to go to college are also very afraid of student debt even though all of them are planning on seeking high paying careers in STEM fields.

I feel like this stigma we have about student debt has gone too far since the last election with all the talk about the student debt crisis and I believe that it has persuaded students with the potential to easily pay off that debt after college decide not to go. What do you think about this biz?

[Anonymous No.1972054]

>>1972036

I think student debt is an absolute sham. You should not have to pay that much to line the pockets of for-profit institutions.

[Anonymous No.1972060]

Student loan subsidy has create a profiteering racket that feeds on one of the weakest financial demographics in the country.

Fucking jews.

[Anonymous No.1972062]

>>1972036
grandparents paid for my school and i went to a cheap community college/worked sometimes on the side, then transferred into the best university I could get into and weighed that against how much financial aid they would give me to attend.

it's not that hard if you get any help at all, even without grandparents help, I just would have had to work part-time.

people who go to college for these high prices with no financial aid/scholarships for a idiotic subject are just that, idiots.

[Anonymous No.1972082]

>>1972062
I totally agree with you on that. There's this lady that went to an Ivy League university and it cost her almost $100,000 to get the degree she wanted. Problem was that she wanted to be a teacher and only made $40,000 a year. Shitty art and teaching degrees are NOT worth that kind of pay compared to the price to get it. I believe that most STEM fields are worth it though when compared to the average cost per degree and he average yearly salary of most STEM fields so long as the price of the degree isn't something ludicrous like what Ivy League schools want

[Anonymous No.1972088]

>>1972036

Depending on what she's wanting to get into, certifications are the best path.

Anon if you're not in a relationship with this girl, drop the investigation act. It's her problem, not yours. She'll figure it out on her own and if you're trying to get with her, guiding her will only push you further into the friendzone.

[Anonymous No.1972129]

>>1972088
>assuming I'm trying to get with her

lol no I'm not. I'm with someone else. She's seriously just a friend and this problem has been on my mind all day because when I was in high school my personal finance class was pretty much nothing but David Ramsey rhetoric and he would always talk about any kind of debt as if it were the purest form of evil. Now I'm getting a degree in biomedical engineering which has the potential to make me an average of $80,000 a year with only $50,000 in student debt by the end of my college. For me the future looks good and paying it off won't be hard at all. For others that aren't living it like I am they always have this sense of fear about finances even with a good college degree in something profitable.

[Anonymous No.1972170]

>>1972129

> lol no I'm not.
> assuming you wouldn't fuck her

> potential to make $80k
> only 50k in student debt
>> if you get a job

That's the problem. There are a lot of people thinking that they'll profit due to the amount they'll make - it's a no brainier! The problem is they're not factoring in the job. They're not factoring in what can happen in those years you're going to college and the job market at that time. Which leads to the debt and interest, as your new retail job can't pay your expenses - even though you have a degree.

Which is why something that you LOVE you get a certification in while you get a low-level degree and start working on getting your connection together to once you finally get a degree to actually get your job. Once you land the job, you go further with your degree.

You'll have a lot of stress if you or her decide to go the traditional route you're speaking of. Do something else - stop being such a sheep.

[Anonymous No.1972178]

To give you some freshman college perspective:

>18 live with mom who has bad debt and a shit credit score
>3.00 GPA so far on 13 credits (about to finish with 17 credits)
Giving a general estimate of 3.00 GPA with 30 Credits

I live in Miami, living costs are generally high
>attending Miami Dade College
It's known around miami highschools as high school 2.0, which is naive considering MDC is being recognized internationally.

In the state of Florida, community colleges are held to the same degrees found in a state university. Also, provided you graduated Miami Dade with your AA or AS, you are automatically accepted as a student of any Florida state university.

I am studying Chemical Engineering. I plan on transfering to UF, one of, if not the best chem engi public state university.

Let's look at expenses
According to UF website, a person who lives on campus and is an instate resident would have an estimated cost of 21k per year (fall+spring)
21,000 * 4 years (120 credits) = 84,000 USD

Compare that to MDC,living with parents, transfer to UF living on campus
7k for 60 Credits at MDC and 42k (21k*2 years).totalling 120 credits and 49,000 for school.

I qualify for the max amount of FAFSA(government aid) which is 5,815+5,920+ (Assume 5,920 is the same for next three years)

Thats 23,575. So at UF I still have 60k left to account.
MDC+UF I have 25k left.

Thats not including work study or other scholarships.

I applied to Florida Bright futures (scholarship based off the state lotto) which pays roughly 2k per year. 2k*4 years

UF - 52000 and MDC+UF 17000

Look at the difference. A chem engineer makes a median of 85k a year. either you lose 61% of your earning and try to live with the remaining 39% to live off for the year or pay 20% and live off the remaining 80% in a year.

I can analyze the debt from subsidized loans vs unsubsidized loans in my next post if you want.

Work in financial aid AMA

[Anonymous No.1972187]

>>1972082
Their fear is understandable. There are things you don't know.

You may find you dislike the field after a few years of study
A medical emergency could impair you and force you to stop attending
The job itself could be too stressful or not what you expected
The demand for your degree may change by your graduation

You do realize you're deciding whether to get a $50,000+ loan or not right? You'd be a retard not to assess all the risk factors. I know a guy, very bright, who got a masters degree in accounting in just 5 years. After 2 years he quit his accounting job and became a hospice care worker primarily because he found actual accounting work just way too boring.

[Anonymous No.1972229]

The issue I have with debts personally as a 19 year old, is that I feel it puts a time barrier on your life because you will have to spend a couple years grinding to pay it off and by the time you finish that you're already well into your mid 20s, I feel like you only go to university or college if you really love the field you're going into. Me personally I find nothing interesting enough to go to university for so I'm just going to spend my years into the trades and *maybe* go to university.

[Anonymous No.1972242]

>>1972054
>>1972060
>hating capitalism
not gonna make it Bernouts

[Anonymous No.1972273]

>>1972242
Oh fuck off already you faggot.

Our economy is slowly dying because of your bullshit and you're too insecure to admit it.

[Anonymous No.1972280]

>>1972036
>The job she wants is to be a practitioner which according to the BLS has an average yearly salary of almost $100,000 a year

multiple bsl number by 0.5 youll get more realistic numbers. not going to college will be better option for 90% of people. 70% of graduates wont find a job their field that would mean you are fucked for life

[Anonymous No.1972290]

>>1972170
True, I understand your points. But with a job growth projected to be 23% between 2014-2024 and only 8% of the 23% expected to graduate between those years I have pretty good security in finding a job. But yeah, I suppose I haven't considered actually finding a job, I still believe people should at least try. We won't remain the worlds #1 GDP with only uneducated minimum wage workers

[Anonymous No.1972307]

>>1972273
Socialism has its place and over charging for things like education is shitty and maybe something should be done about it, but socialism isn't going to fix anything at this point. We've made pretty much all the sensible socialist policies a long time ago with the Roosevelts. Now we need more libertarian policies that don't restrict markets

[Anonymous No.1972314]

>>1972036
Student debt should be avoided at all costs. Not even "STEM" jobs are safe anymore. None of the graduating EE or MechE students from my school have been able to find employment, and around half of last year's graduates wound up taking shitty jobs outside of engineering while the other half got lowballed. Now the local aerospace manufacturer is laying off a few thousand engineers this year to boost margins.

>inb4 hurr you should have gone to MIT
Yeah, that's not even a realistic argument. This is a very respectable state school.

[Anonymous No.1972327]

>>1972314
>half got weeded out for being retards
Good

[Anonymous No.1972338]

>>1972307
>Now we need more libertarian policies that don't restrict markets
Based on what? We're letting ourselves get fucked in the ass left and right by big business. Why would I want to spread my cheeks wider? These businesses are literally sitting on trillions of dollars of cash stockpiles while the rest of us don't have shit, and yet it becomes an "I crie everytiem :'(" sob story if someone suggests putting that money back into the economy.

[Anonymous No.1972342]

>>1972242
>hating an issue of capitalism
>lol communist!
Neck yourself.

[Anonymous No.1972355]

>>1972327
That's after people were weeded out by university admissions, department certification, and dropping out you retard. You just like cheering for objectively bad things because your love for getting fucked in the ass by Mr. Shekelberg has given you a sense of masochism.

[Anonymous No.1972366]

>>1972307
It's not going to be popular. This is the most 'republican' administration, in that Trump actually wanted cuts for most socialist departments. He won't get them, in fact, there hasn't been a year where those departments have stopped growing. The federal government is too busy playing with loans and stuffing states with bribe money to care about fiscal sanity, that's for states to worry about.
>>1972314
I would avoid student loans on the laws that surround them alone. You'd be better off getting any other loan then paying for college with that, and even then I think most people would do much better these days with a blue collar job like driving trucks in south dakota.

[Anonymous No.1972368]

>>1972036
Debt isn't necessarily bad, it can, in fact, be the natural result of a good thing i.e. taking on debt to invest in something worthwhile. However, student debt, is absolutely idiotic since a degree is practically worthless, yet every employer seems to want one.

My advice to any high school student is to attend the cheapest college possible to get a degree and only be a few thousand in debt. High priced degrees are hardly ever worth the debt that is required to obtain them.

[Anonymous No.1972375]

>>1972036
>over 1100 on the SAT
In what universe is that considered good? I got a 2130 and I was seriously thinking about just going into a trade.

[Anonymous No.1972379]

>>1972036
They're right to fear. The MAJORITY of people no longer get the career they want, and are stuck with something paying less.

Statistically, their degree is a money pit now. The tide turned, it's no longer a good investment.

[Anonymous No.1972384]

>>1972375
The SAT was changed a year ago where the highest score is now 1600. Based on your score you would get a 1400 score

[Anonymous No.1972404]

>>1972384
Oh, I see, thanks.

Still, I wouldn't consider an 1100 score a shoe-in for a rigorous college program.

[Anonymous No.1972417]

>>1972355
Yeah and now they are perfect candidates for local restaurants, data analysts, admin jobs, and all kinds of positions. I don't want some dropout or junkie serving my food

[Anonymous No.1972428]

>>1972338
>We're letting ourselves get fucked in the ass left and right by big business

keyword here is "let." Private businesses can't do anything to you without consent, except when they form a coalition with government, and when they do that its not capitalism, which is why limited govt is so important. govt is the agent of force. not private enterprise.

>these businesses are literally sitting on trillions of dollars of cash stockpiles while the rest of us don't have shit

Perhaps you wouldn't be so poor if you spent less time complaining about other people's success and focused on your own. Secondly, rich people dont just "sit" on their money, because they can't afford to let inflation eat away its value. They invest in the economy At least they used to. The reason trillions of dollars are expatriated is because we're the highest taxed nation in the world, our economy is anemic, and rich people can just take their money and fuck off to a country that doesn't hate success.

The reason the rich get richer is because its incredibly easy to get returns on your investments because of QE, govt sponsored wall st speculation, FDIC, etc. Again, shitty government policy that bails out shitty companies and pumping free money into wall st the cause of your grief. this is not capitalism.

>and yet it becomes an "I crie everytiem :'(" sob story if someone suggests putting that money back into the economy.
>trusting a government which is $20 trillion down the hole with even more of your money to use it responsibly to continue doing the things its been failing to do.

[Anonymous No.1972456]

>>1972417
Dooming the most intelligent and resourceful members of your society to a life of menial labor and poverty is a surefire way to get your shit wrecked.

[Anonymous No.1972462]

>>1972456
if they truly were intelligent and resourceful, they would have still been able to secure real jobs

try again

[Anonymous No.1972479]

>>1972129
Well Anon, you're taking a calculated risk. I'm glad that college degrees aren't just being pushed as a panacea to all the middle class's problems any more. If the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction, it pays to be on the other side like it paid to be on the other side of the flight from trades. If you're in High school, you're probably a better judge than me of where the trends are and where they're going.

>>1972170
>Not cluing in that OP's a gril

>>1972242
How's president of peace working out for you?

>>1972290
I'd be skeptical of the official numbers, even if they're correct now they might not be similar when you graduate. But that's not the point. Either you want to do biomedical Engineering (in which case you shouldn't be dissuaded by the sacrifices it requires) or you don't (in which case you shouldn't be swayed by the rewards it offers) or you're not sure (in which case you should talk to people in the industry).

[Anonymous No.1972485]

>>1972462
If that argument were true, then MBA faggots wouldn't be slashing their existing engineering workforce to boost short term profits.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/boeings-stock-gives-the-dow-the-biggest-boost-after-plan-to-cut-hundreds-of-more-jobs-2017-04-17

try again

[Anonymous No.1972488]

>>1972036
>1100 on the SAT
>good grades
kek

[Anonymous No.1972508]

>>1972428
It seems like you have an idea for a solution that wouldn't get watered down or outright ignored.

[Anonymous No.1972538]

>>1972485
>one company is laying off engineers
Looks like a business strategy to me, I'm sure those engineers can find another company focused on the long term or better yet start their own consulting firms

[Anonymous No.1972548]

>>1972508
the solution is to free the market and cut spending, but that would require a massive cutback to regulation, entitlements, and federal pensions.

none of this will ever happen because congressman on both sides know it would be political suicide to take away free gibs. the only solution is the impossible one.

[Anonymous No.1972631]

>>1972307
>>1972428
Universities are subsidized by the federal government, and corporate tax write offs, if you're arguing for the free market, Universities would be one of the worst examples.

[Anonymous No.1972676]

>>1972485
>a boo hoo abloo abloo i got fired pls feel sorry for me :(((((((((((

go get another job then faggot if you were so good, shouldn't take too long, stop bitching.

this is why your resume is in the trash.

[Anonymous No.1972712]

it's perfectly reasonable to be afraid of student debt.

because it's impossible to get rid of.

Even bankruptcy doesn't get you out of student debt.

take a loan for a car: can't pay? car is taken.

Take a loan for a home: can't pay? home is taken away.

what do they take away if you can't pay the loan for college? A degree is just paper. they can't take your knowledge away, so as a result, student loan debt literally sticks with you until the day you die.

with how high the costs often are, it really is a huge gamble.

like

>>1972187

said, any number of factors could result in you ending up fucked.

especially if you leave, get your degree, but then can't get your foot in the door anywhere.

This is part of the problem that precipitated the current talk on debt. it wasnt just the retards with liberal arts and gender studies degrees, but after the 2008 economic collapse, there was a huge influx of highly experienced older workers who got laid off, and were willing to work entry level positions for entry level pay or less, and they clogged up the works, and set a precedent- thats why you get that vicious loop of "experience needed- but to get experience I need to get into the industry- but to get into the industry I need experience"

student debt is literally indentured servitude.

[Anonymous No.1972727]

>>1972242
>hating predatory jewish practices means you hate capitalism
good try shekelstein

[Anonymous No.1972736]

>>1972631
the current state of higher education is one of the strongest reasons for freeing the market. nobody is saying otherwise.

[Anonymous No.1972752]

>>1972727
>hating on people who didn't force you to do anything, just merely made an offer you can absolutely refuse

I don't understand this mindset, people do it to themselves and then blame others

If you pick a shit degree and have poor job prospects, it's not anyone's fault but your own. This is the truth a lot of people will conveniently ignore.

>b-but my particular sector is over-saturated! No jobs! The economy sucks! someone else fix a mistake I had voluntarily and knowingly got myself into!

well gee wiz, why not take the possibility into consideration before signing the dotted line?

[Anonymous No.1972757]

>>1972379
You're so full of shit. Yea if you go for a meme arts degree, out of state tuition, and fail to network you will be in a hole. Statistically college graduates will significantly more than non graduates.

Anecdotal I know, but I didn't get any scholarships and came out with 40k in debt, but I started my analyst job at 52k, and now three years later I'm almost hitting six figures. I don't have to bust my ass in the sun or running my own business. Best decision I made going to college for a *MARKETABLE* degree.

[Anonymous No.1972943]

Should I join the military or what's a safe trade during recessions

[Anonymous No.1972957]

>>1972384
just because they got rid of the writing section doesn't mean an 1100 is good
that's like the best score someone could get at a black inner city school

[Anonymous No.1972990]

>>1972943
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/stocks/08/industries-thrive-on-recession.asp

[Anonymous No.1972995]

>>1972752
Or better yet, look for work elsewhere. Lots of people end up working outside the scope of their degree and are still successful.

[Anonymous No.1973015]

>100k average
lel

[Anonymous No.1973029]

>>1972995
>go to school for industry X
>work in unrelated industry Y
>"heh, studying industry X totally wasn't a waste of time"

people will defend this

[Anonymous No.1973037]

>>1973029
I'm not saying it's optimal you stupid, stupid nigger. Also have you ever heard of someone having a change of heart? Maybe they don't want to do X after all and fell in love with Y. Quit being dense.

[Anonymous No.1973057]

>>1973037
kek, just keep on piling debt and wasting time for indecisiveness

a bit of foresight would of gone a long way, eh? but you gotta follow your dreams bro :^)

[Anonymous No.1973061]

>>1973057
I already graduated and good job. I imagine throwing all this salt around doesn't pay you too well so I can understand your venting. What happened? Couldn't cut it in American History? Too hard for you?

[Anonymous No.1973064]

>>1973061
>What happened? Couldn't cut it in American History? Too hard for you?

do you have a career in film now? these projection levels are off the charts

[Anonymous No.1973070]

>>1973064

What are you even on about you dumb bitch? All I said was if someone fucked up with a meme degree they could still find gainful employment.

[Anonymous No.1973107]

>>1973070
>all this salt

Ah, my bad. I must be speaking with a chef, or at least one still in training. You've got a long way to go.

Anyways, it's simple as basic English seemed to have escaped you: don't propagate meme degrees in the first place, and certainly don't make "oh but they can always get a job in an unrelated field" a mantra either. That may be what will inevitably happen to them out of desperation, not so much as some kind of viable alternative

Basically get idiots to think about what they want to do with their lives first and foremost with a practical approach right from the go, not blaming others but themselves for mistakes if they choose poorly.

Oh, and try to cut back on the ad-hominems next time, they come off more as more bitter than spicy. Ask your teacher about it.

[Anonymous No.1973118]

>>1972479

Anon here has a point, you have to be skeptical of the numbers and really need to make a factual choice if it's right for you. Remember that student debt isn't something to joke around about - it can change your life in a negative or positive way - there is no in between. You really need to consider what you're going to be doing, cause once it's to late - it's to late and there is no going back.

[Anonymous No.1973124]

>>1973070

Ya. Well you're a dirty meme.

[Anonymous No.1973451]

If its not stem its a waste of 4 years and 100k.. if you want a piece of paper that says you have masters in english in an English speaking country for 100k give me a call. Worse than big bankers. Debt bubble millennials not doing stem

[Anonymous No.1973452]

>>1972036
Tbqh I feel like you know the answer but are just hoping biz will validate what you want to be true.

[Anonymous No.1973629]

>>1972060
WAAAH WAAAH POOR MILLENIALS :(

[Anonymous No.1973690]

Most people are stupid cattle. I know this one chick that has a brand new 2016 mustang GT. She's already in debt like close to 30k for the car and she is in college for a meme architect degree. She works a minimum wage job...

This is going to end badly for her.

There's a big bubble rising, 2008 is coming soon.

[Anonymous No.1973757]

i don't understand why american student loans have interest. wtf.

[Anonymous No.1973803]

>>1972036
1100 on the SATs is just above average intelligence for everyone taking the test. Maybe your friend shouldn't be going to an expensive college after all.

[Anonymous No.1973838]

>>1973757

Because of fucking Jews lmao

[Anonymous No.1973844]

>>1972036

>I feel like this stigma we have about student debt has gone too far since the last election with all the talk about the student debt crisis and I believe that it has persuaded students with the potential to easily pay off that debt after college decide not to go.

The only sensible path nowadays for an average American is to acquire a real SKILL, not a meme degree, and work that job while you build your own business and brand.

Going to college is just a meme. Went there, did that, got shit. Only when I built a business was I finally free of debt and servitude. If you think your ticket to the middle class is a college degree keep dreaming, your parents are moron dummies for the most part that don't know shit about how bad the job market is.

Only creating your own job, like me, not MLM bullshit or get rich quick schemes can:

1) Get you the money to be free

2) Get you to live better than your 9-5 parents

3) Ensure your continual employment

4) Can earn you money 24/7

For the elite and the impoverished it might be worth it, but middle class ($40,000-150,000, I know high range) it is financial suicide.

[Anonymous No.1973849]

>>1972178
>Getting an associates at community college first

This really needs to be encouraged more. I paid my way through community college living at home and working part time, then finished my bachelor's at state school with reduced tuition. Got my degree with less than 15k in loans.

[Anonymous No.1973862]

>>1973849
Thank you both for reassurance. I calculated my cost if I did it like this and came out cheap

[Anonymous No.1973957]

>>1973862
It's a great plan. Make sure you are picking classes at CC that are transferable and fulfilling your requirements at the school you intend to go to. You've got a good head on your shoulders if you're thinking this way, you'll be alright kid.

[Anonymous No.1974059]

>>1972060
>weakest financial demographics in the country.

>Poor people get poorer
>Get depressed and kill themselves
>Middle class proportionally grows

What exactly is the problem?

[Anonymous No.1974091]

>>1973107
It's 4chan, if you can't handle the banter go back to tumblr. Once again you're arguing something I'm not arguing you dense fuck. I never encouraged anyone to get a meme degree and I agree they are sub-optimal, but just having a degree gives them an out to do something else. Although, it will be harder than if they focused on something more marketable. I know you think you are really smart and clever but your mother isn't always correct.

[Anonymous No.1974104]

>>1973451
You can go to an in-state school for much, much cheaper than that if you don't dick around. Even cheaper if you try a little bit and get grants and scholarships. The people that are in stupids amount of debt "followed their dreams" going to an out of state school for a dumb degree.

[Anonymous No.1974258]

>>1974059
already underrated

[Anonymous No.1974283]

>>1972036
how would one go about short-selling the student loan debt and getting stacks when it fails?

[Anonymous No.1974288]

The problem is we have too many poor "people" going to college when all they are supposed to be are wagecucks. If they realized that, college would be cheaper for the rest of us who matter.

[Anonymous No.1974298]

>>1972036
>over 1100 on the SAT

is that impressive to normies?

[Anonymous No.1974323]

>>1973844
This sounds great, but established business use the government as a weapon to destroy upstart competition. The government props up shitty business with welfare for their employees.

[Anonymous No.1974484]

>Sign up for college taking out $6,000/year for 4 years
>Great grades, great SAT/ACT, want to go to med school
>Get to school, enthusiasm wanes
>Tuition raise
>Tuition raise
>Tuition raise
>Father's wageslave job gives minor raise
>Financial aid drops tho I don't get support from family
>Be 22, burned out on college, don't want to go to med school anymore, and graduated with $32,000 in debt vs anticipated $24,000 debt bc of variables outside my control

Bring on the waveslavery.

[Anonymous No.1974500]

>spend 200k on school
>4 years later be worth -250k

or

>dump 200k into the market
>4 years later be worth 500k

hmm hard decision

[Anonymous No.1974524]

>>1972036
Bawww "the college I want to go to is too expensive"

Bawwww "the house I want is too expensive"


Bawwwwwwww "the girl I like is too pretty for me"
Bawwwwwwwww "the car I want is too expensive"
Fucking millenials.
Take a more affordable path you pathetic dick brain

[Anonymous No.1974552]

>>1974484
thats over the cost of an annual heroin habit its nothing

[Anonymous No.1974808]

>>1974500
While no sane person will let an 18 year old leverage 200k on the market they will let them borrow that much with the catch that they only discharge the loan if you die.

However you do make a valid point that starting off adult life in the black is far better in the long run.

Personal example
>had 20k for college in 2008
>got out after 4 years with 20k in debt for a total cost of 40K

Had I gone straight to work out of school I would have been in a far better position after 4 years. I could have bummed it up at home and saved $1000/month for those 4 years to come out with 60-70k and 4 years of work experience. Where I live that is a good vehicle, %20 down on a house, and 20-30k in the bank or invested.

[Anonymous No.1974972]

>>1972314
boeing is laying off a few hundred not few thousand
and if you mean KU or some other shit shack of a school the people coming out of undergrad have total garbage gpas with fuck all to show for internship experience

[Anonymous No.1975050]

>>1974091
>It's 4chan, if you can't handle the banter go back to tumblr.

We were talking about you, not me, my friend :)

[Anonymous No.1975061]

>>1972242

I love capitalism, I hate state-enforced cronyism.

[Anonymous No.1975079]

>>1974972
Their target is to shrink their engineering headcount by several thousand. This is but one of many rounds of layoffs.

lrn2read

[Anonymous No.1975080]

What half you mindless fucks can't understand is that happiness is heavily hinged on options (power) When you're 60k in debt and don't immediately get a decent job offer you start to freak the fuck out and take a shit wage bc you HAVE to pay. Having 60k in savings means you can take your jolly good time finding a solid job, and you know damn well you have ample time to find a path.

[Anonymous No.1975128]

>>1975079
give me a source that cites more than a few hundred engineers

i see none

[Anonymous No.1975546]

>>1975080
how do i get 60k in savings at 20 and then start college

[Anonymous No.1975884]

>>1973849
Fucking this right here. Did the same, got my BS and went on to get my MS, worked my way through, public uni in state, $23k when I got out and took my first job at $54k. Career path has changed since and I make more now, because I have versatile skills and have continued to learn on my own constantly.

[Anonymous No.1975908]

>>1972757
This. This so hard.

[Anonymous No.1975917]

>>1972242
>State subsidized debt traps propped up by government monopoly is capitalism

[Anonymous No.1976896]

>>1975080
What you don't understand is out of niche jobs like oil shit that well paying jobs require either skills that you learn in a trade or a degree.

Yea there are exceptions in areas such as coding and IT, oil related shit, where you can get by without either, but those require self study and networking which lets be honest most people on 4chan do not have the capacity to do.

[Anonymous No.1976910]

>>1975080
If you're suggesting to work for awhile and pocket some money before going to college then I agree with you. Not everyone has it figured out at 18 I sure as fuck didn't.

[Anonymous No.1977134]

>>1972036
> She could get a similar degree from another university cheaper
> She could do the first two years at a community college
> MOST people that pick their degree path in high school change it 3-5 times on average

[Anonymous No.1977283]

Here in the UK most student loans are provided by the government and they only start asking for repayments once you are earning above a certain threshold, which really takes the heat off. If I recall correctly the debt gets wiped once you turn 40, too. Probably the best deal you will ever get in this country as far as loans go.

That said, university graduates are a dime a dozen these days and the market is flooded with fresh graduates looking for jobs, so maybe less people going to university isn't such a bad thing at the moment.

[Anonymous No.1977428]

>>1973849
Community college is a great option if you don't have a lot of financial support and/or you don't really know what you want to do with your life. I was a mediocre student in high school and thought I wanted to do something artsy, so I fucked around doing art classes in community college for a couple years while living at home with my parents and working part time. Eventually I realized I needed to get my shit together and pursue something that would make me some money so I spent another year getting my business pre-reqs done and transferred to a good state university. Ended up getting my degree with no debt and landed a job paying $60k. Community college was great since it allowed me to spend some time figuring things out at a much lower cost than a university.

[Anonymous No.1977457]

>>1973844
>Skills meme
>You aren't being used to drive down the cost of labor for everyone else

The BLS stopped classifying most construction work as skilled labor.

Most "Skilled" positions are either dependent on depressing the number of persons working in the trade, or providing a large enough pool to keep labor costs down for whoever has the license or business permits.

There are no safe options in today's world. You are going to get assfucked no matter what happens because of a series of trends that push you in one particular direction.

[Anonymous No.1977685]

>>1977283
In the Netherlands it's probably even better. We can ask 1000 euros a month, most of it is not even needed because college tuition is very cheap. And the interest is minuscule, this year it's 0% and last year 0.1% a year. If you never get a job you don't have to pay and you only need to pay a minimum % of your wage back per year, if it's too low then in 35 years you don't have to pay it back.

I'll purposely study 2 years longer just so I can borrow more and invest it into volatile markets like cryptocurrencies and leveraged CFDs/ETFs

[Anonymous No.1978006]

>>1977685
My nigga

My studies will start next year and I will get this loan too. Best part of all is that I've never lived in the Netherlands, but I do qualify for DUO €€€ by virtue of my passport, even though I won't study in the Netherlands.

[Anonymous No.1978136]

>>1972178
You go to MDC? I just want straight to FIU and commuted, thankfully I had the medallion scholarship and some other shit. No financial aid since my parents made too much. Ended up paying ~$5000 for my bachelors. Already out of school and it's all paid off. Planning on going for my masters this Fall, which is about $30,000. Going to be working full time and living at home for the mean time.

[Anonymous No.1978293]

>>1972036

[Anonymous No.1978715]

>>1972170
>if you get a job

>went to college thinking I could pay the loan off within two years at the salary I would be making
>would then be on the gravy train
>didn't get a job (lack of experience)
>will have to earn that 50k back at 10/hr, plus the interest

I said I didn't want to go to college, but my mom convinced me to. I can't even get an entry level job in my field.

>>1973757

My one loan is 6% and the other 7%. Both federal. That's way above inflation rate. They're actually making a profit off me. 50k debt. I have 3k in just interest costs each year.

Realistically, does /biz/ think that student loans will ever be "forgiven" or ruled illegal and wiped or anything? Should I start paying it off? I'm trying some alternative incomes (not crypto) but for now I'm pretty poverty tier. I can do maybe $200-500 a month.

[Anonymous No.1978827]

>>1972712
>17-18 year olds are thinking this deeply
>about THE FUTURE

[Anonymous No.1978835]

>>1973029
>X = Math
>Y= Eng
>X is the superset of Y
Defend I shall.

[Anonymous No.1978851]

>>1972712
>that vicious loop of "experience needed- but to get experience I need to get into the industry- but to get into the industry I need experience"

I feel this feel too deeply. Just die already oldfags RRRREEEEEEEEEE

Taking up all the houses
Taking up all the jobs
Saddling us with national debt
Leaving our infrastructure crumbling for the sake of the forever war

Will they ever stop fucking us?

[Anonymous No.1979072]

>>1972338
Why are you on this board if you know so little about how money works? Are you sad that Bernie lost? Do you cry every night to make yourself feel better?

[Anonymous No.1979119]

>>1972036
was facing a similar issue

had to decide if i would go back to school to get a mechanical engineering degree

basically i had to assess whether or not i had the intelligence and time to get a high GPA in a field like engineering, as I knew that this had to be done correctly

the price tag on the entire endeavor would be 40,000 dollars

I decided to move in with my parents and attend the local university while I attended classes to keep the debt burden as low as possible and so that I would not have to work while I studied a difficult subject

i also knew that if i wanted to make the degree worth anything, i would have to acquire an internship. graduating with no experience is an awful position to be in, as your interest is collecting and you will start to get desperate

i now have a year-round engineering internship which is paying me 21 dollars an hour so i can pay off the classes while i work at the company 20 hours a week

i project i'll graduate with between 20-30 thousand dollars of debt

my gpa is a 3.66, i will have 16 months of real world engineering experience by the time i graduate

i also keep good relationships with my professors who will help me find jobs

i expect to pay off my loans within 5 months of graduation then move on with the rest of my life

[Anonymous No.1979260]

>>1978835
>Math is unrelated to Eng

[Anonymous No.1980134]

>paying for your education

No wonder america is the cuck capital of the world

[Anonymous No.1980181]

I live in Australia and I am currently 18 years old and finish high school at the end of this year. I am planning on double majoring majoring in Business Analytics/Data Analytics next year in university. I will finish my degree in 2022. I plan on living at home and work while I get my degree so I can save up as much cash as possible and pay off the loan. Here in Australia, fortunately my education will only cost $27,000AUD, so it's not a huge amount that I've seen from some USA students.

[Anonymous No.1980224]

>>1980181
What? HECS means you don't have to pay it off.

[Anonymous No.1980243]

>>1980224
You start paying off the loan when you start earning $52,000 before taxes. You pay if off through your taxes, but I'd just rather have the peace of mind knowing it's something I don't need to worry about.

[Anonymous No.1980338]

If I was a young American I would take as much student debt as possible.

Look at the statistics.

When the current generation reach their mid 30s then politicians will come along and promise to cut the debt in exchange for votes.

Screenshot this and put in a time capsule. It will happen

[Anonymous No.1980359]

>>1972428
>Private businesses can't do anything to you without consent,

Okay, great - I'll let my electricity provider know I don't consent next time they jack up utility prices by 10% again.

[Anonymous No.1980368]

>>1972712
And the only way to escape from it temporarily is to work in a foreign country. It's why English teaching jobs have exploded in Asian countries.

[Anonymous No.1980397]

>>1978851
>Will they ever stop fucking us?
Get this, even when they're dead the institutions, climate, and society they created with outlast them.
They were the last of the free humans Anon.
Prepare to become a prole.

[Anonymous No.1980410]

>>1972036
>Hello I am a university recruiter and I am deeply concerned that no one is paying 60k for a pseudo-intellectual piece of paper and burying themselves under kilotonnes of debt in the process.
>How on Earth will we ever fix this terrible stigma?

[Anonymous No.1980541]

>>1972178
Soon to be FSU grad here in CS. Listen to this guy. If I had gotten my AS first I'd be set, now I have to live pretty cheaply for a few years after college.

[Anonymous No.1980921]

>>1972752
>It's a /biz/ fails to recognize or comprehend what positive externalities are episode

Always the right time to change the channel.