/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.19571100]

What's your thoughts on UBI? Are people going to sit on their ass and do nothing if they have free money?

[Anonymous No.19571114]

>>19571100
Do you have to think hard for this?
Yes!

[Anonymous No.19571118]

>>19571100
Please tell me that's a man.

[Anonymous No.19571130]

read up on the human reward circuit and how dopamine works and come back.
it will fuck everything up.

[Anonymous No.19571162]

>>19571100
Sauce on this man, please.

[Anonymous No.19571180]

>>19571100
>Are people going to sit on their ass and do nothing if they have free money?
No, people will mine crypto with their brains in a Proof of Task consensus manner thanks to the Microsoft patents. If you are a good citizen you will be rewarded

[Anonymous No.19571201]

>>19571100
mentally lazy ignorant welfare niggers (of all colors) is the cause of most problems today.

UBI will multiply these problems times infinity

our culture and society is no where near intellectually advanced enough for this to be good in any way. but it would be a big giant step towards absolute nanny state with 99% of the popluation being cull sheep cattle in the cattle yard

[Anonymous No.19571209]

another angle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrot_and_stick

if you give free carrots to everybody AND remove the stick things will get pretty weird pretty quick.
screencap this.
humans are not as smart and mental as we thing we are. we need resistance in life or else its like running a combustion engine without mechanical resistance, you will destroy it pretty quickly.

[Anonymous No.19571250]

Doubt its gonna be as people think, UBI will just lead to higher cost of living basically nullifying your increased income, especially for things like rent and housing, homeless people will still be homeless

[Anonymous No.19571306]

Don't be silly. They will rape, do drugs, attack and kill people. For no reason at all. Black 'people' already have ubi so we already know how it will go, at least for black 'people'. I don't want these black 'people' specific problems to get worse so I am against expanding welfare so more of them are included. If we defund the police, an idea I'm not entirely opposed to, we should also defund social security, medicare, medicaid, and public schools all of these are incubators and breeding grounds for the very worst our society has to offer.
Think about it thought. If black people are throwing such a hissy fit despite being the best treated race in America, giving them more free shit will only make them more antisocial and prone to even more acts of domestic terrorism.
A realistic implementation would be having them perform a meaningless task for 8 hours to show their resolve and that they deserve it. Now if they have no criminal record and their bmi is <22 we could just have them show up to a ubi gym. Three times a week they run and do a basic weightlifting program. If they miss a day or get fat or a criminal charge they are kicked out and made to dig holes then fill them back for 8 hours a day if they want to continue collecting a check.

[Anonymous No.19571322]

>>19571250
also true,
in the case of france where you can get more than 450 Euros a month for doing absolutely fuck all you still see these fucks outside of shops begging for money (yes, you can find a room for 250 a month (which will be covered by 50 % by state so you actually pay 150 after utilities and everything))
I have never seen as many complaining, weak and generally spine-less people as here in France. (I am not french and I am moving again in a month because I am fed up with this country)
Yes, food is expensive here too.
Good times create weak men.

[Anonymous No.19571335]

>>19571306
ubi could be taken to much better extremes than current 'welfare'

1. tell plebs they were right, we must support ubi
2. after a few months "in order to maximize the help given, ubi will now be extended to free food and housing"
3. launch ubi "lifestyle centers" made with cement floors painted in pastels. these lifestyle centers will feature "activities"
4. activities will include things like "assembling iphones". each activity will happen for 14-16hrs per day. outside activity centers covered in suicide netting for "safety".
5. when 'team members' get cancer offer 'free healthcare' in form of free aspirin
6. organ harvest, recycle rest into dog-food

[Anonymous No.19571351]

>>19571335
THX1138

[Anonymous No.19571371]

>>19571100
UBI, like any other utopian idea, would only work in ethnically and racially homogeneous country.

[Anonymous No.19571461]

>>19571100
Fuck UBI. You have to get the POWER!

unipower.network
>first proof-of-liquidity token
>only 1,000,000 tokens
>insane uniswap volume & community growth

if STA can hit 13mil+ then unipower can easily go to $13 too

[Anonymous No.19571478]

>>19571162
all of these are frequent posters on r/traps
t. sergey

[Anonymous No.19571567]

>>19571461
Why does number of tokens matter? This has never had an impact on the price of anything ever. If you have 1% of something it make no difference whether there is a hundred or a quadrillion units because they are both 1%. Typically insane people and communities are not something you want to put your money in but OK. So this thing is a copy pasta of STA. Just copying it does not mean the copy is worth the same amount, you made a serious error in your line of thought here. STA has a bunch of streetshitters shilling it nonstop. What does poower have?

[Anonymous No.19571616]

>>19571209
>humans are not as smart as we thing we are
>thing

k and g are so far away on the keyboard that theres no way this is a typo

[Anonymous No.19571624]

>>19571351
Yes, I think the world will bifurcate. There will be UBI/Prison Camps for the 95% and beautiful citadels ensconced in nature for the 5%.

Due to the deflationary nature of btc, the citadels will actively shun any form of welfare or handouts as they will be seen as hugely expensive taken from a 10+ yr view of future

The resulting mentality shift away egalitarianism in the citadels will represent the most radical realignment in human society that we've seen in past 2000 years. Breakaway civilization.

[Anonymous No.19571685]

>>19571616
>keyboard that theres no way this is a typo
you know that little think called auto-correction ?

[Anonymous No.19571686]

>>19571371
Can't wait to see them try it here in Toronto.
Let's see how it takes for this shithole to burn to the ground.

[Anonymous No.19571790]

>>19571461
>how can I use this to pump my shitcoins

you are the cancer

[Anonymous No.19571826]

>NOOOO YOU CANT JUST PROVIDE PEOPLE WITH BASIC LIVING STANDARDS YOU HAVE TO MOTIVATE THEM WITH HOMELESSNESS AND DEATH NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[Anonymous No.19571894]

>>19571130
Yeah, even if we had enough resources to give away everything for free, their is value in self sacrifice and hard work. It fucks you up to receive things for free.

[Anonymous No.19571936]

Although there are a few good arguments for UBI.

Riot insurance to keep people from rioting

Also, we give all our data away to governments and corporations for free. So shouldn’t they give it back to us in a form of UBI?

[Anonymous No.19571946]

From an organizational perspective, UBI is a good thing, because if properly implemented, it eliminates the need for the current convoluted social safety net. You can streamline the entire process by regrouping aid for housing, food, etc into one single check. I think that's the side of the argument that conservatives could maybe understand. Don't think it'll ever get completely implemented in the US but we have now seen our first experiment with it, and what do you know, it was fine.

[Anonymous No.19571948]

>>19571826
not what is being said here
what is actually being discussed is Human Behavior and Human Development, basic economics and personal responsibility

also it doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize the self-evident problems shown by the long history of welfare dependent lifestyle and behavior

i would be in favour of free but somehow mandatory education for starters

but it all possibly leads into the fundamental problems inherent in a socialist nanny state coddling of the lazy, ignorant, directionless and unmotivated

[Anonymous No.19571958]

>>19571351
Thanks for what?

[Anonymous No.19571970]

>>19571100
That is definitely a bloke

[Anonymous No.19571989]

>>19571826
It’s literally impossible to be homeless or starving in the US if you work 12hrs a day and cut your spending and save half of your income.

But no one is willing to do that... except me and I stuck that extra half into crypto

[Anonymous No.19571996]

>>19571958
for being you

[Anonymous No.19572004]

>>19571100
It's welfare

[Anonymous No.19572020]

>>19571989
>But no one is willing to do that
most of us are doing that and have been doing that all of our lives.
which is why some of us are enraged at the very thought of giving these belligerent criminalistic lazy gimme dats more free gibs

[Anonymous No.19572100]

>>19572020
Unfortunately it seems like we’re in the minority.

[Anonymous No.19572189]

>>19572100
sadly yes. it would seem so. the idealistic utopia dreaming liberal sjws are getting the majority voice.
what they create will be a nightmare, but they are either blind to it, or its part of their plan, or don't care i just don't know

[Anonymous No.19572216]

>>19572189
It seems like the world is run by academics who have a really high verbal IQ but no critical thinking skills whatsoever. Meanwhile the conservative who is secretly a millionaire, but not the most educated gets called out for being a “god fearing redneck”

[Anonymous No.19572307]

>>19571100

ubi can only work if only taxpayers ( those who don't receive ubi or pay more taxes than they get as ubi) are allowed to vote. this will keep welfare expansiin at bay and keep the ubi to a life sustaining but otherwise not satisfactory low level.

[Anonymous No.19572358]

>>19571100
Sauce

[Anonymous No.19572421]

>>19572307
in addition, there would need to be copper spiral placement in women who neglect their children. this will keep the welfare population growth controlable and under the average population growth.

the curve of ubi reduction per income needs to be relatively flat, so there is no cliff where you would get more money for working less.

[Anonymous No.19572423]

>>19571100
I think that’s an empirical question, let’s try it somewhere and see how it goes.

Anyone pretending to know the answer a priori is a dumb cunt.

That said, if it were the case that UBI didn’t completely disincentivize financial risk-taking, it would mitigate the risk of any investor dropping out completely. This makes me wonder, to what extent is success in the market determined by luck and would lowering the attrition rate cause the market to saturate with unfit investors or would it benefit more from having a greater amount of fit investors that would have been culled owing to bad luck?

Whatever the case, I don’t see humanity safeguarding the fourfold any time soon, so enjoy the ride.

[Anonymous No.19572582]

>>19571946
Eliminating all the government jobs, which is pretty much welfare in itself, to administer the welfare funds and administer bullshit programs for UBI is going to be near impossible.

[Anonymous No.19572708]

>>19571100
UBI is incompatible with a free market, because fluctuations in supply and price, which do happen, will demand a necessity in change in UBI. Imagine if fuel prices or food prices go up. It also means that strict rent control would be necessary, because predatory landlords would see that people were getting more money and raise rent accordingly. In short, all of these would require strict price controls by the government to protect people on UBI. Price controls would lead to riots when price increases became necessary due to supply and demand.

It would become a method by which the poor would become even poorer because the value of currency would be decreased to the level of UBI.

[Anonymous No.19572721]

>>19571100
I unironically support something like it, but the US is far from being able to make it work on a societal and cultural level, just look at the last few days alone as proof. UBI would just be a little band aid for a gaping chest wound.

[Anonymous No.19572732]

>>19571948

Sweden is basically a welfare state but has among the highest rates of entrepreneurs. When people aren't existentially afraid about feeding themselves and keeping a roof over their heads they can stop groveling for mcjobs and focus on creating things that they're passionate about. Will some people take advantage? Yea, but no system is perfect

[Anonymous No.19572751]

>>19572732
Sweden makes fuck all besides shitty cars and good CS players

[Anonymous No.19572762]

>>19571335
The lifestyle centers you mentioned exactly describe college apartments near me

[Anonymous No.19572800]

>>19572582

There's no programs for Ubi, you just cut everyone a check. Its far less bureaucratic than welfare where you need administrations to investigate people for eligibility. And it doesn't de-incentivize working like welfare does, because you get the UBI no matter what whereas with welfare youre stuck in an event horizon where it's literally not worth it to get a job.

[Anonymous No.19572821]

>>19572732
Perhaps Sweden historically has had unique qualities that make their particular version more workable.


I could garantee you that most people begging for welfar in amaerica and demandiung all this sepcial treatment and free gobs, will not suddenly start using their free time to go to the library and start indfependently studying Science, medicine or technology and work on productive, constructive things.

these people demanding special treatment and free gibs and the constant and infinite prostration of imaginary "white oppressors" will sit around doing drugs drinking Colt45 and gang banging just like they do now while making more babies, not fathering them so another infinite number of generations of fatherless degenerate welfare babies is always on the way

[Anonymous No.19572823]

>>19572751

No, they make plenty of popular software (Spotify, supercell, off the top of my head), IKEA, and certainly lots of other less prominent things we've never heard of.

[Anonymous No.19572866]

>>19572821

You're already paying the joggers to stop rioting anyway. Might as well extend the handouts to whites and let them practice entrepreneurship.

[Anonymous No.19572925]

>>19572866
the handouts need to be stopped.
stop all handouts.
not handouts.
for anyone.
no special treatment.
for anyone.
no more tax breaks.
no more incentives.
nothing.

free. market. let it rule.

[Anonymous No.19572953]

UBI will coincide with a government digital currency. The economy will crash later this year, perhaps with a “second wave” of corona virus to blame the whole bust on. The next election will be in a time of economic devastation. UBI would be very good for any candidate, at first it would be packaged as temporary relief payments, but how could you take away that sugar it would be political suicide. We are in the natural transition from capitalism to communism, don’t be tricked into thinking these are competing sides.

[Anonymous No.19572970]

>>19572925

You can't stop the handouts because the joggers will burn down the country. You can only administer it in worse or better ways. Right now it's being administered in the worst possible way - deincentivizing work, requiring excessive bureaucracy, and failing to help the people who could actually leverage the freedom for greater productivity.

[Anonymous No.19572972]

>>19572953
>We are in the natural transition from capitalism to communism
that much is clear

[Anonymous No.19572980]

>>19572970
capital punishment instantly delivered to all joggers.

problem solved.


you loot, we shoot.

[Anonymous No.19572996]

>>19571100
Is that a-?

[Anonymous No.19573002]

>>19572953
>>19572970
last time this happen we did ubi in form of public works project. building interstate system + hoover dam, etc.

that would be far more efficient use of handouts than paying animals to post on twitter.

[Anonymous No.19573001]

>>19572980

One can dream.

[Anonymous No.19573094]

>>19572358
my wildest dreams

[Anonymous No.19573507]

>>19571118
that's a man

[Anonymous No.19573559]

>>19571335
sounds like the optimal solution. when can we get this started?

[Anonymous No.19573602]

>>19571826
>YOU HAVE TO MOTIVATE THEM WITH HOMELESSNESS AND DEATH
the history of human civilization verifies this as correct. someone has to lose the game and it's probably going to be you.

[Anonymous No.19573631]

>>19571100
>Are people going to sit on their ass and do nothing if they have free money?

No fucking shit shirlock

Look at the current state of welfare. Its disgusting. I cannot imagine advocating for more

[Anonymous No.19573703]

>>19573631

Welfare stops when you get a job, so you have no incentive to work.

With UBI, you can get a job to improve your standard of living and continue to receive UBI. You're simply freed from being afraid of not being able to feed yourself, so you can focus on what you're interested in instead of wageslaving to make ends meet.

[Anonymous No.19573783]

You have meddled with the primal forces of nature, Mr. Beale! And I won't have it! Is that clear?! You think you've merely stopped a business deal? That is not the case. The Arabs have taken billions of dollars out of this country, and now they must put it back! It is ebb and flow, tidal gravity! It is ecological balance! You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations, there are no peoples, there are no Russians, there are no Arabs, there are no third worlds, there is no West! There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multi-variate, multi-national dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels. It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and sub-atomic and galactic structure of things today! And you have meddled with the primal forces of nature! AND YOU WILL ATONE! Am I getting through to you, Mr. Beale?

[Anonymous No.19573789]

Corporate America receives much free money yet continue to flourish.

[Anonymous No.19574502]

>>19573789
They recieve back a tiny portion of the tax they pay separate from the higher personal taxes they also pay

[Anonymous No.19574573]

>>19573703
>, so you can focus on what you're interested in instead of wageslaving to make ends meet.
subsidized niggerism. just makes it easier for noggers to stay in drug dealing, gangbanging, colt45 drinking, and making more black babies to grow up fatherless and destined to repeat the cycle

you cant subsidize a sub cultural society of criminalistic parasites and expect good things to just happen

[Anonymous No.19575182]

>>19571118
You can tell it's a man because he's hiding his manly features such as his veiny muscular forearms and wrists.

[Anonymous No.19575195]

>>19571100
Thats been my experience during covid.
UBI will lead to mass stagnation

[Anonymous No.19575837]

UBI will solve the problem of toilet paper scarcity by providing alternative material means of wiping one's anus.

[Anonymous No.19575962]

>>19571100
If everybody gets the exact same amount, it nullifies the impact. Wealth is relative. It is based on having more than another. Therefore the UBI-system is inherently communist. It undermines the concept of wealth and thus posession. It renders the concept of currency useless.
Nothing is for free in this world, anon.

[Anonymous No.19576100]

>>19572732
Found the swedecuck poster