/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.18742217]

My wife and I make over $100,000 USD/yr together, and yet it still seems like buying our first house is going to cost so much god damn money. As you can imagine, we live in a high cost of living part of the country for our work and it's still going to take a few years of saving to come up with a down payment. I can't imagine how people doing worse than us buy homes around here. Seriously, is home-ownership a pipe dream for people in their 20s? When are boomers going to die and free up the housing market? Help me with these feels

[Anonymous No.18742227]

>>18742217
100k a year total isnt that great for most high cost of living areas.

[Anonymous No.18742232]

$100k is jack shit in 2020, average income was $127k in 2018.

Look up "inflation"

[Anonymous No.18742240]

>is home-ownership a pipe dream for people in their 20s?
Yes, but maybe not for much longer. The system is collapsing, buying now is the dumbest thing you could possibly do.

[Anonymous No.18742244]

>>18742217
Margin yourself and purchase you poorass degenerate

[Anonymous No.18742270]

>>18742217
get a side job, upgrade your skills, budget to the last penny, penny pinch, move, ask for a raise, ask for more hours, lower your expectations for your first house.
That should get you started. If I think of more I will post

[Anonymous No.18742276]

>>18742217
man it takes 2 of you to make 100k? jeez thats pretty bad.

[Anonymous No.18742299]

>>18742276
We both went to grad school; in STEM. It's nuts

[Anonymous No.18742328]

Owning a home is a pipe dream for anybody under age 40. Retirement is also a pipe dream. You’re in cradle to grave slavery, good luck

[Anonymous No.18742353]

>>18742299
ah, so your both at start of careers? thats different then. Perhaps you guys should just rent, unless you guys are really dead-set on living at one particular place.
Good luck, i read a thread on boglehead about some dude who made the math work where he just adjustable mortages the house and tacked the downpayment to the end and invests the rest.

[Anonymous No.18742368]

>>18742240
>>18742299
Listen to this guy. Buying right now is the dumbest thing you could do.

[Anonymous No.18742371]

>>18742299
65$/hr here also in STEM

Only have my Undergrad degree

[Anonymous No.18742412]

>>18742353
Yes we are very much at the beginning of our lives and will continue to rent for awhile. I'm just trying to not lose sight of the American Dream (tm)

[Anonymous No.18742425]

>>18742328
I bought mine at 32. 300k. Get a job.

[Anonymous No.18742456]

>>18742412
honestly, once you guys are ready to have kids thats when you should consider a house. I bought a house at 29 by myself and it was a massive time sink that I was not prepared for. Eventually you just buy shit just to maintain the house, like tools, lawn equipment. With renting you can still enjoy being free to do anything u want while you are young, as well as invest the savings you would have lost to insurance, house payments, and unexpected repairs

[Anonymous No.18742459]

>>18742425

Wow, I never thought of that. Thanks anon. I wonder why millennials don’t just get jobs

[Anonymous No.18742472]

>>18742217
Home ownership, children, retirement

Choose 2 unless you are very high income

[Anonymous No.18742474]

>>18742240
>>18742368

There are better times to buy than others, but buying is always better than renting. No exceptions. So if you are worried just buy a cheaper house and keep a few years payments in cash so you can weather any storm.

>>18742412

You have to figure out how to up your income. Housing prices are just going to keep increases faster than you can save on a low income. The longer you wait the worse it will get.

[Anonymous No.18742475]

>>18742456
You know this is some good upside that I don't focus enough on; thanks anon

[Anonymous No.18742515]

>>18742474
Go back to pol boomer retard

[Anonymous No.18742560]

Dont get swallowed by greed. A mortgage payment is for suckers and look at what is happening now to the suckers with a mortgage. 30 million unemployed people in 1 month.

[Anonymous No.18742564]

>>18742217
listen up you entitled millennial. you aren't "entitled" to a house, you aren't "entitled" to a job, and you definitely aren't "entitled" to my wealth. get a loan and buy it at face value. you aren't getting a damn cent off the listing price. Can't afford the loan? Get another job.

[Anonymous No.18742568]

>>18742368
why? interst rates record low?

[Anonymous No.18742576]

>>18742475
you don't make that much
also you need to spend less

[Anonymous No.18742578]

buy a house out of town for less and a 2000 toyota camry for commuting

[Anonymous No.18742579]

>>18742560

Only way to not pay a mortgage is to buy with cash, because by renting you are just paying your landlord's mortgage plus extra for their profit margin.

[Anonymous No.18742588]

>>18742568
Bitconnect can literally only go up, and the rate of up can literally only go up.

[Anonymous No.18742601]

>>18742217
Dont worry, the real estate bubbles always come to an end.

[Anonymous No.18742619]

>>18742217

Depending on your area and prices, it may make sense to rent vs buying

https://smartasset.com/mortgage/rent-vs-buy

The simple truth is places with low property taxes and property taxes freezes / building restrictions suck for home buyers. It allows boomer who owned property before these laws were in place to live off real estate gains and screw younger folks.

[Anonymous No.18742631]

>>18742217
>is home-ownership a pipe dream for people in their 20s?
uhhh no you can easily afford a house even if you make like 40k a year and are single. It would take less than a year of saving up your money while living with a relative/family/friend to afford a down payment for a starter home.

The trick is to buy a house that you can actually afford in a low COL state.

[Anonymous No.18742685]

desu OP i would wait until your incomes equaled at least 200k. it sounds like that could be on the horizon already with your level of education. just take the time in between to live WELL below your means and save as much as you can. living dat 30k lifestyle isn’t all that bad especially when you know it won’t be forever and you will have something very worthwhile at the end of it.

>join us lower class trash OP we’s all kind folk n can learn you to shoot a gun an such

[Anonymous No.18742744]

>>18742588
>>18742601

Jpow will turn the dollar into monopoly money before he lets housing prices decline. I would be terrified to be a renter right now. Having a really low, fixed payment for 30 years out is incredible peace of mind. Especially once you save a few years of payments. You can loose your job or w/e and know that nothing can happen to your home for years. You can refinance for <3% 30 years right now its insane.

>>18742619

Renting is always more expensive because your landlord's mortgage is just baked into rent, plus taxes are higher for rentals, which is passed on to you in rent. The only reason some people think rent is cheaper because they're not comparing apples to apples, like comparing some shitbox basement apartment to a nice house in a nice neighborhood but calling them the same because they have the same number of "bedrooms."

[Anonymous No.18742797]

Depending on where you live you might be better off just saving/investing in other things until you have a big enough deposit so mortgage repayments wont make you want to neck yourself. The game has been rigged against first home buyers for ages, try not to be emotional about it. Focus on building your careers as your combined income is really at a graduate level.

I live in Sydney where property has been a scam for ages, I can rent somewhere awesome way cheaper than a mortgage would be for it, and still be able to travel and have fun. I personally dont see much point taking on a fuckload of debt to live somewhere with a long commute and to have my car broken into regularly. In australia people have an obsession with housing and sign up to be slaves to the banks.

Our combined household income is north of 300k so no im not a bitter poorfag either.

[Anonymous No.18742833]

>>18742459
Me too

[Anonymous No.18742844]

>Live in Long Island Jew York
>dilapidated fixer uppers are 350,000 with 10,000 a year taxes
>Make under 50k a year

Fuck this boomer hell

[Anonymous No.18742883]

>>18742459
It's definitely easier to blame everything else.

[Anonymous No.18742896]

>>18742412
>I'm just trying to not lose sight of the American Dream
Hate to break it to you anon but that's not an obtainable thing for us anymore.

[Anonymous No.18742926]

>>18742797
>rigged against first home buyers for ages
compared to whom?
>Sydney where property has been a scam for ages
people like you always make this allegation, yet don't provide evidence on a 'normal' price for housing in large metropolitan areas
>taking on a fuckload of debt
one of the reasons to take on debt at a young age is to leverage it. If you have the stomach.

[Anonymous No.18743013]

>>18742744
>before he lets housing prices decline
Every overlevered Airbnb host is going to shit in his cereal

[Anonymous No.18743273]

>>18742926

Over the last decade in Australia there has been
>more than 30 interest rate cuts
>CGT exemptions on primary residence
>Generous negative gearing measures
>Goverment and voting block that supports housing as a speculative investment
>Record high immigration and foreign investment
>Fuck all wage growth, barely on par with inflation
>Concentration of job opportunities in major cities

This all drives prices up but leaves pay the same. Instead of investing in productive assets we have a sham economy based on people selling overpriced shitboxes in western sydney to eachother. If you bought before the year 2000 you are likely to have paid off your house and seen 10% growth year on year, and are now in a position to use that equity to buy an investment property (which the government has rewarded) and outbid a first home buyer who is now trying to enter at a much higher price.

[Anonymous No.18743525]

>>18742328
gg no re

[Anonymous No.18743588]

>>18742564
>you tell ‘em Dave

[Anonymous No.18743590]

>>18742564
I'm paying for /your/ social security retard; you are the one who is stealing my wealth, not the either way around

>>18742576
This is true

>>18742601
Yes but soon?

>>18742744
>Jpow will turn the dollar into monopoly money before he lets housing prices decline
What do you mean exactly?

>>18742844
You're not far from where I live...yeah it sucks; going to move sooner rather than later

>>18742896
Fuck off Berniefag; I'll make it happen on my own

[Anonymous No.18743666]

>>18743590

I'm responding to people who think housing is going to crash. The fed is hell bent on printing the way out of a technical recession. The money supply was doubled in a month, and that's on top of it quadrupling in the last 10 years. So when you buy a house, you have get 30 year mortgage, and have a nice low fixed monthly payment. You are making a bet that in 30 years the dollar will be worse less than it is now. That is pretty much a guaranteed win.

Compare that to renting. You will always need a place to live, so when you rent, you are paying rent to maintain your short position, and you are the mercy of never ending rent increases.

[Anonymous No.18743703]

>>18743273
Don't forget council reluctance to open new land for development. When it is approved it's shitboexs that will stand for maybe 10 yrs

[Anonymous No.18743706]

Bro, I'm a UPS driver. I deliver to so many young families living in, what I consider, huge two story homes. I guess I just failed at life. That or they're the people saying they can't afford rent after that first week of the shutdown.

[Anonymous No.18743715]

>>18742232

[Anonymous No.18743726]

>>18742232
>Average income was $127k in 2018.
Fake news.

[Anonymous No.18743809]

>>18743715
>>18743726

that is median income for all people, so you are including children, retirees, retarded and disabled people, etc. When you account for 62% workforce participation then that is really more like the bottom 20% percentile income. $127k is the average based on tax receipts.

[Anonymous No.18743849]

>>18743809
>that is median income for all people, so you are including children, retirees, retarded and disabled people, etc. When you account for 62% workforce participation then that is really more like the bottom 20% percentile income. $127k is the average based on tax receipts.

[Anonymous No.18743908]

>>18742217
Buy within your means. Realize most people are far overleveraged. Remember this as you look at all the pretty houses. Try to keep your mortgage payment below 30% of your gross income. Bonus points if it's under 30% of your net. I bought my first home in 2013 for 189. I still owe 160. Rent is more expensive now than my mortgage for 1/2 to 2/3 the bedrooms I have. Just bought the vacant lot next door, so I have 1/2 acre in town- appraisal for both properties is 300k. I bought a 4 bd 2 ba home that was good structure, but needed cosmetic updates as it had been a rental for 10 yrs. Paint and a little drywall work can do wonders. I'll be at 220k in debt now, but most of my work peers are at 300k - 500k. My observations is their happiness is inversely related to their mortgage. At no point have I exceeded 30% debt to income, including my mortgage. I still go on vacations and can afford nice shit. Or just shit, as crypto were.

Heed my warning - a mortgage and home can either be a modest gem that you can be proud of, or an overbearing ball and chain that sucks your soul out through your wallet. 30 years is a long time.

[Anonymous No.18743921]

>>18743809
that number only includes illegible workers you dumb fuck. I can't tell if you're trolling or you're really that mentally retarded.

[Anonymous No.18743943]

>>18742601
>>18742744
I used to think that housing prices would crash again after the reflation of the housing bubble but there's a very real risk that housing prices will never fall again in nominal terms. Sadly, the US has become more like China rather than the other way around and one of the key differences in shitty countries like China versus the US historically is that the Chinese money is never trustworthy and there is practically a unanimous, unthinking belief that real estate can *never* go down.

While I believe that every bubble does indeed pop, I think it should be pretty clear that the Fed will stop at nothing to keep all of its bubbles--stock, bonds, real estate--inflated. The popping of the Fed's bubbles, however, may not be manifested in housing prices. The real estate bubble is at the heart of the Fed's failed policies and future policy actions. The problem is that if real estate is allowed to fall, the creditors, who control the Fed, are going to take a bath. After seeing the more and more outrageous bailouts over the past two decades, does anything think the creditors are going to take a loss now?

There are two ways the creditors can lose money on mortgage debt: 1. Housing prices fall and debtors start defaulting en masse, which causes the debt instrument behind the mortgage to fall in price. 2. If interest rates rise either due to Fed desire to normalize interest rates (hah!) or due to some other reason such as high inflation or as compensation for default risk, the debt instruments will fall in price even if there are zero defaults. But higher rates, at the very least, will cause strategic defaults if not more typical defaults because higher interest rates for mortgages cause housing prices to fall which will put debtors upside-down on their mortgages as buyers will not be able to borrow as much money.

[Anonymous No.18743984]

>>18743726
The median income of a worker was about $30,000/year from the latest IRS statistics. The average may actually be that high because you have some people grossing hundreds of millions or billions of dollars per year, which greatly skews the average (mean).

Likewise, you'll find that mean (average) net worth in the US is actually quite high. However, median net worth is close to zero.

[Anonymous No.18744003]

>>18743273
i wouldn't expect the central bank of Aus to stand by and watch RE collapse. Low interest rates are the new normal. Everyone learned from the mishandling of Paulson & Co. during the 2008 US housing debacle
I live in Canada, and everyone says "its different this time. Can't happen here"

[Anonymous No.18744004]

>>18743809
Cope

[Anonymous No.18744047]

>>18742474

This is not true the delta between rent and buy is absolutely absurd in many places. I pay less in rent than I would in tax & interest before I even get to equity. And then you also have to maintain a house.

[Anonymous No.18744082]

>>18743706
it's the latter. my company announced a 20% pay cut. it sucks but i'm still saving money. you would think my coworkers are looking the grim reaper square in the fucking eye. they're panicking and they all make more than me ($70k+ in south NJ) because i'm a more junior employee. the most amusing part is that we make too much money for partial unemployment so they'll really be feeling it at the end of next month.

[Anonymous No.18744198]

>>18743908

Good point, its very easy to get caught up in the lifestyle creep/whatever you want to call it if you live in the city. You see people who are really not that special driving flash cars and living in prime real estate but the truth is they are usually in crazy levels of debt or reliant on two high incomes with no backup plan. My GFs boss (equity partner at major accounting firm) used to live in one of the most affluent parts of the city and said he couldnt believe how overleveraged these people were all in trying to keep up with the Joneses. People who made less than him were giving him shit for driving an old subaru while they were financing a Bentley lmao.

[Anonymous No.18744250]

>>18743943

Yes, US is a state directed economy now, especially after corona with the bailouts, nationalization, direct cash payments.

Dollar is guaranteed to lose long term.

[Anonymous No.18744426]

>>18742328
>Owning a home is a pipe dream for anybody under age 40. Retirement is also a pipe dream. You’re in cradle to grave slavery, good luck


You are full of shit. I bought my first home at the age of 20 in 2010. I got a 15 year mortgage and paid 1000/mo (coastal Georgia). It was difficult to save up the money and took up a large portion of my modest income ~40k for a few years but was definitely doable. My income went up over the years, I rented it out 2 years ago and just purchased my second home a forclosure which I am fixing up. The first house is almost paid off due to making extra payments and the second gace me 30k equity the second ai bought it (connecticut). I only make about 70k a year now. So home ownership is definitely still doable, but not if you have excessive car payments or retarded credit card debt.

[Anonymous No.18744483]

>>18742744
>Renting is always more expensive because your landlord's mortgage is just baked into rent, plus taxes are higher for rentals, which is passed on to you in rent.
You're not considering investing the downpayment to neutralize that profit.

[Anonymous No.18744685]

Exact same boat except I have a 2 year old with my wife.

It's shocking that we can't afford a home. Our max budget is 190k and when we looked at these properties they are pretty much crack houses that are falling apart.

[Anonymous No.18744736]

500k house is basically the average for a family of 5

[Anonymous No.18744882]

>>18742232
W-what.

[Anonymous No.18744969]

>>18744685
Is that 190k budget conventional mortgage or HoA?

[Anonymous No.18745040]

>>18742217
If you need an expensive house in an urban setting yes, but there are houses for 200k that are perfectly fine, especially for only 2-3 people

[Anonymous No.18745059]

>>18742240
>>18742368
Yeah, buying now is retarded, we're only printing literally trillions of dollars, it's not like there's going to be inflation or anything driving prices through the roof. Nevermind the millions of zoomers who want into homes, they'll just all disappear because you want a house with no competition. Reality is elementary school recess where everyone wins. Just wait and you'll get there, no need to worry about your money losing value in the bank.

[Anonymous No.18745086]

>>18745059
lmao trying living in australian big city, 600k USD for anything remotely decent

[Anonymous No.18745130]

>>18744426
>coastal GA
might as well be subsaharan africa kek

[Anonymous No.18745149]

>>18744736
Depends entirely on location

[Anonymous No.18745168]

>>18745130

Weatherwise true. Pretty much a tropical jungle. Otherwise I kinda liked it. Neighborhood was quiet and peaceful. Short and mild winters.Publix is nice. Low taxes, no hippies, crawfish season, catfish season. No gay gun laws. Nice beaches with warm water.

[Anonymous No.18745169]

I'm closing my first house in a couple weeks. People around me are a pretty mixed bag, about half think I'm crazy and the other half think it's a good idea because there will be inflation. Mostly I just find it hard to believe it's happening, since I've been waiting so long. I don't care if prices dip some in the next few years, it's a nice house and the market will recover

[Anonymous No.18745224]

what happened to my post

[Anonymous No.18745270]

>>18744426
Sounds based. Unfortunately I live in New Jersey, well the really nice part at least.

[Anonymous No.18745422]

>>18743984
wow what are we going to do about this
may I propose a trial with...pic related?

[Anonymous No.18745459]

>>18745169
>market will recover
it hasn't even been allowed to dip. you are cucking yourself.

[Anonymous No.18745482]

>>18745459
Sorry I don't understand meme language

[Anonymous No.18745550]

>>18744003
Unironically this is how Canadians think. There is nowhere left people can reasonably afford to live.

Townhouses were in the $250k range in my area a year or so ago are now close to $320k.

[Anonymous No.18745562]

>>18745482
Go back the way you came

[Anonymous No.18745590]

>>18745562
no

[Anonymous No.18745596]

>>18745169
>the market will recover
This is called Normalcy Bias. You have no reason to think things will get better, you just hope they do.

[Anonymous No.18745628]

>>18742844
Hey neighbor. Holbrook here

[Anonymous No.18745640]

>>18745596
There are too many people like you who are hoping the market crashes so you can finally afford a house, preventing it from ever dropping that low, because you all can't walk away with the home you're eyeing. That home will ever only have one owner.

Real estate is finite. It's not like money which can be (and currently is being) printed in infinitum. A parcel of land has no duplicate. Normalcy is real estate being a scare commodity, and that is a condition it will never recover from

[Anonymous No.18745661]

>>18745628
Haha, small world. I live in Sayville. Whats up?

[Anonymous No.18745745]

>>18743984
I don't think you have any clue how averages or medians work

The handful of billionaires is not offsetting the millions of wagies by any meaningful amount. It's like pissing in the ocean.

[Anonymous No.18745766]

>>18742299
Pathetic

[Anonymous No.18745829]

>>18742217
Dude you can get a 30 year with as little as 3% down.

[Anonymous No.18745848]

>>18745745

[Anonymous No.18745876]

>>18742217
>$100k together
That’s lower middle class. That means you’re going to have to settle for a small shack in a neighborhood with a sizable negro population and below average schools.

[Anonymous No.18745878]

>>18742425
>300k
Do you live in the ghetto? Or worse, the south???

[Anonymous No.18745894]

>>18745848
> However, median net worth is close to zero.
Is what he said. That screen cap looks much more accurate

[Anonymous No.18745946]

>>18745894
Yeah, and you said pissing in an ocean of piss. You're naive.

[Anonymous No.18745969]

>>18745946
Especially when we're talking about medians? I stand by my assertion. I'm surprised means are so affected, so I'll admit I was wrong by half