Pissearth Economics

[Anonymous No.18714503]

Nothing that was bad about the economy was allowed to fail in 2008. Normally during an economic event like that businesses that were unsound would go under and new ones without massive debt would have to be established and it would take time but eventually there would be recovery. Like what happened in Japan. So what we have been living in is a completely manufactured economy ever since then. What caused the stock market to go up so high since 2012? Debt. Cheap debt. First, the real inflation rate is about 3%. Second, the FED has been lending to banks at about 1% ever since the financial crisis. Every time they tried to raise the rate, as you should when the economy is strong, there has been pushback and the stock market would falter for a week or so. To me this indicates that without constant access to money at 2% less than the inflation rate, the economic wheels will stop turning.

Another big indicator that the growth seen after 2012 is completely fabricated is the lack of emerging industry or other economic developments that normally create economic growth. Normally a boom starts with a new frontier, like the internet created the dotcom boom. The subprime market created the housing bubble. The US becoming the manufacturing center of the world in the wake of WWII created the boom that boomers and the greatest generation got rich on. Right now we are in a situation where the present boom is a bubble founded on systemic cheap debt, the government is in debt to the FED, the banks are in debt to the FED and the corporations are in debt to the banks. People are up to their eyeballs in debt as well. Now where is all this money coming from and who can pay it all back? How is the money to overcome this debt going to be generated?

[Anonymous No.18714510]

>>18714503
So right now we are running on a debt based economic bubble. So then coronavirus hits. We have about 1/3rd of the working population unemployed at this point. What does that lead to? First, we must look at what you are going to stop paying when you have no money. That means pragmatically a consumer would max out their credit cards and default on them because they are unsecured credit. Next you have luxury/entertainment services. Even if you opened up the entire service sector tomorrow, one third of the population doesn't have money in their pocket to go out to eat or to the bar or take a vacation. And remember, just because the service sector opens doesn't mean they start getting the same tips and hours they had during the boom. So how many restaurants and bars go under as a result? How many of them had mortgages? How many of them were renting? How many people simply can't afford rent? How many of those landlords now can't pay their mortgages? If you have read this paragraph you know that this means a lot of people are not going to be paying the banks a LOT of their monthly revenue. What does this cause? A liquidity crisis. This is why the FED has so much slated to be used in the REPO market. They know this is going to happen.

So, what you are seeing in the financial markets are a bunch of people who are absolutely delusional. The FED is pumping the market. The rich people are getting out of the market. This whole situation is complete and total clown economics and there is no way we are not going into a massive recession in the next six months. 2008 wasn't allowed to find the bottom because of government intervention. The sheer amount of debt the US government is going into over this is mindboggling. There is no reasonable way that our debt can be repaid or a budget surplus can be achieved without borderline hyperinflation making trillions of dollars seem like billions.

[Anonymous No.18714535]

>>18714510
The situation is hilariously bad and nobody wants to even acknowledge this because to do so is to say we have completely destroyed the global financial system by trying to say clever mathematics and consumer confidence are more real than the productivity and real growth of the economy.

[Anonymous No.18714879]

>>18714503
Nice write-up. When do my shorts become in profit sir.

[Anonymous No.18715081]

>>18714879
Well now we get into another question, first, who controls the FED and who controls the world bank? You see, the financial structure of the world starts getting weird and theoretical at these levels. You can go to /x/ or /pol/ and they will tell you it's reptillians or jews or the illuminati or the knights templar or the jesuits. The thing is, WHO it is doesn't matter. The reality is there is a group who are "controlling the supply of money" BUT all of their power is only power because the military and police of the countries they lend money to defend them, if that makes sense. So, what we are seeing right now is a system which will collapse without some kind of extreme intervention.

So, do you allow the entire economy to collapse and restructure and buy it all up and own even more of the world if you are these controlling interests? Do you take that risk of potential "revolutions" due to widespread economic collapse? Or, instead, do you prop up the existing system because money doesn't really mean anything since it is a mathematical concept at this point in time, and go for some kind of complete digitization of currency and keep the existing power structure you already have the most influence in?

Basically, the "elite" or whatever can try to manipulate this any way they see fit since they essentially can do whatever they want with money. But, if they let things get too bad they run the risk of wide spread public backlash. They also run the risk of widespread public backlash if they take too much for themselves and the "1%" as it were. So, that is really why I titled this "Pissearth Economics" because everyone knows it makes no sense and there is no real way to predict it, and debt and money are largely mathematical/theoretical concepts that don't mean anything.

[Anonymous No.18715170]

>>18715081
Really liking your write-up so far, feeling like maybe I am not crazy after all

[Anonymous No.18715463]

>>18715170
I felt like clarifying a bit on the last post. I think the most accurate way to look at our world is that there is still a class of nobility, however it no longer is a political class but an economic class. You have what are best described as a class of Oligarchs who have incredible financial power, industrial power, huge real estate holdings, utilities and media holdings, etc. Now, as I have said, it is rather inconsequential who these people are, what is important is to see the forest and not be distracted by the trees. They have divorced themselves from political power because being involved in politics means public scrutiny. You don't need to be the king if the king has to ask you for money.

Now, with that in mind, a true financial collapse means a true governmental collapse. Police officers aren't going to risk their lives for no pay. Same goes for the military. The other reality faced by these individuals is that they have the whole world dependent upon their financial system. A private central bank is present in nearly every developed country. The people and the structure defending their accumulated assets is the combined military and police forces of the world. So, this is one reason why that governments are allowed to have "unlimited debt" in the tens of trillions of dollars, because it keeps their system working.

Now, the argument you will often see is that this printing of money and bailout etc. are going to cause inflation. The fact is, they are not. Inflation happens when the entire population has access to more money. If you are only handing out these trillions of dollars to keep maybe 10k people worldwide afloat, you are not going to see true inflationary effects at the consumer level.

To bring this back to the question "Who controls the supply of money?" we have to ask ourselves "Is the US government borrowing money from the FED to buy the assets of the very people lending the money to the FED in the first place?"

[Anonymous No.18715527]

>>18715463
This is perhaps the most important question. Is the money the government is borrowing from the FED being paid to the people lending the money in the first place? Are the controlling interests in the World Bank that lends to the FED the same people who control the FED and do they have a stake in the private banks that the FED lends to? Does anyone even know the answer to this?

[Anonymous No.18715556]

>>18714510
>There is no reasonable way that our debt can be repaid or a budget surplus can be achieved without borderline hyperinflation making trillions of dollars seem like billions.

Based retard, not understanding the first fucking thing about monetary policy or even what money is

The Fed is currently throwing money out of helicopters in a desperate attempt to stave off DEFLATION. If you don't understand that, and more importantly why that's happening, you're just going to look silly.

[Anonymous No.18715621]

>>18714503
i feel like i was the only person in 08 saying raise rates to 10% let the market sort it out
>but the retirement funds
>but the pension funds
and now the economy has been a zombie since and debt is the only fuel

[Anonymous No.18715678]

>>18715527
>Are the controlling interests in the World Bank that lends to the FED the same people who control the FED and do they have a stake in the private banks that the FED lends to?
Seems reasonable

[Anonymous No.18715690]

>>18715556
>The Fed is currently throwing money out of helicopters in a desperate attempt to stave off DEFLATION
No shit, because real wages have been stagnant for so long and corporations only innovation in the past fifteen years has been how to pay you less money for more work. Rather than giving people solid jobs and solid pay, they make people with student debt compete with H1B pajeets. Deflation follows the same damn mechanism that I laid out for WHY there is no inflation despite all of the money being printed. The money being printed is going to the pockets of people who already have a fat bank account and stock portfolio. It isn't going to the middle class. And you are calling me a based retard?

[Anonymous No.18715710]

>>18714879
when free of misery

[Anonymous No.18715863]

[Anonymous No.18715976]

>>18715690
>And you are calling me a based retard?

Yes. You don't understand the basic concepts involved here, and thus you sound like not only a schizo but an idiot.

The world is not the United States.

[Anonymous No.18715997]

>>18715527
Ben Beranake used to work for Goldman Sachs. I know he's not the chair of the Fed anymore, though.
Bumping a good thread.

[Anonymous No.18716103]

>>18715997
>Babby's First Conspiracy Blog
>good

[Anonymous No.18716193]

I'm very sad now

[Anonymous No.18716224]

>>18715976
>The world is not the United States.
>You don't understand the basic concepts involved here
Enlighten me. Which basic aspect am I missing out on?

[Anonymous No.18716275]

What happens after home and 401k values tank? And there aren't as many jobs to go back to? And ppl arent spending money to keep the system rolling? Industries will consolidate.. rich get richer. And the rest of us take on some more debt (whether it be a govt bailout or sba loan) to live a slightly shittier existence? How do we navigate clown world?

[Anonymous No.18716312]

>>18716275
Either people get mad and do something or we enter into 21st century serfdom. It's pretty grim, but that is the reality we are facing.

[Anonymous No.18716376]

>>18715997
I don't think people we know about at the political level are controlling interests in these private central banks. Somebody collects the profits from the FED, and if the fed is unprofitable, somebody collects the profits from the World Bank. Those are the people at the top.

[Anonymous No.18716382]

>>18715463
Based posts anon except
>Now, the argument you will often see is that this printing of money and bailout etc. are going to cause inflation. The fact is, they are not. Inflation happens when the entire population has access to more money. If you are only handing out these trillions of dollars to keep maybe 10k people worldwide afloat, you are not going to see true inflationary effects at the consumer level
You underestimate how power Gibs Politics will gain from this event, as well as scrutiny of where inflation is/has been going. Property, Education, Medical Expenses. All these things have been inflating for years to the point governments are now going to give them out.

[Anonymous No.18716492]

>>18716382
>Property, Education, Medical Expenses.
And I would argue that the primary driver of the rise in medical expenses, education and property value are all government subsidized programs. What would happen to property values if section 8 housing wasn't available? What would happen to education expenses if government subsidized student loans were not available? What would happen to medical expenses if Medicare and Medicaid were not available? Property is also a funny example because of how much is owned by wealthy people from foreign countries. Vancouver and California and Seattle all have inflated property value because of chinese "investors." Florida has inflated property values because of canadians, brazilians and snow birds all wanting to be there. Regions without non-local competition tend to be more reasonable.

[Anonymous No.18716502]

>>18716224

Well, our economic system can best be described as monetarist, in that it's the main lever for controlling economic expansion and contraction, and work is useful to the extent that it circulates money. So not understanding how money works and having opinions on economics is sort of like talking physics without a concept of gravity.

And it'd take forever to go through the theory of it, so I'll try to simplify it as much as I know how without distorting it too much.

I guess, to start, right now the Fed is reacting to a crisis situation, not acting, and the crisis is deflation. Right now trillions of dollars of wealth are fleeing Europe and the emerging markets and trying to take shelter in the USD, creating a massive demand for dollars that the circulating supply is nowhere near enough to supply. So, in order to prevent massive deflation, which is the real economy-killer, the Fed is printing money basically as fast as they can. That's why the money supply has exploded in a way that made the 2008+ QE look like nothing, but we're seeing zero inflation. Every dollar printed is being snatched up by foreign investors.

The actual effect is the evaporation of the wealth of South America and (mostly southern) Europe, which is basically demanding to finance our deficit spending at any rate of return. This will cause a vicious cycle of wealth leaves -> economy suffers -> more wealth leaves there. It's great for us, going to be an apocalypse for them.

Deflation is the real terror, not inflation. Deflation is when it becomes more profitable to keep cash in the bank rather than spending it, ie the entire economy locks up solid and you get 1929 all over again. That's what keeps Powell up at night and why the money printer is going brr.

>but the money's going to The Rich! wall st main st blah blah

"The rich" are commercial banks, they're the ones who get money from the Fed, that's how the counter works. The Fed can't loan you money. There's more

[Anonymous No.18716524]

>>18716492
>Florida has inflated property values because of canadians, brazilians and snow birds all wanting to be there
>inflated
>because there's high demand

That is not what inflated means.

[Anonymous No.18716592]

>>18716524
It is when you live there. But I understand your sentiment, high demand high price etc.

[Anonymous No.18716683]

>>18716592

Yeah, it sucks to be a renter in a hot spot. My family passed up on a then-reasonably-priced detached home in one of the cities you mentioned back when I was a kid, which is now worth more than 20 times the price.

But high demand for an intrinsically desirable thing driving up its price is the literal opposite of inflation.

[Anonymous No.18716769]

>>18716683
In terms of the global market I understand what you are saying, high demand for the dollar=deflation=our goods become noncompetitive price wise for export=kills international trade = kills economy. How is it systemically stable to be lending out all these dollars to unstable economies though? Aren't we essentially issuing a bunch of sketchy debt to keep something unstable afloat?

[Anonymous No.18716941]

>>18716769
>deflation=our goods become noncompetitive price wise for export=kills international trade = kills economy.

It's far far far worse than that. Imagine if the dollar was appreciating by a few percent a year at the same time the stock market was down, like say what happened in March. What would you do if you had a billion dollars? You'd keep it in the bank where you'd get the best return, rather than losing it on Wall Street. And everyone else would too, sucking the supply of money out of the economy, which in turn increases the demand/supply ratio further, pushing up the value of the dollar more, etc etc, and all the money pours out of the system and it becomes impossible to buy or sell anything because everyone with money is holding onto it rather than spending or investing it. Buffett's famous "you'll try to use the ATM and there'll be no money in it" situation.

This is what happened in the Great Depression, and it's the central banker's nightmare, which is why we have constant inflation. Constant mild inflation forces the rich to keep investing and spending their money, because if they let it sit, it loses value.

But the Fed doesn't run the world, and it can't stop the smart money in emerging markets and the hideously mismanaged mess that is Europe from seeing the writing on the wall and wanting to get into a safe asset. The safest asset in the world is the United goddamn States Dollar, because it's backed by the Pentagon which makes a point of delivering a brutal messy and public death for any pissant dictator or president who talks about replacing it.

>How is it systemically stable to be lending out all these dollars to unstable economies though

No, they're lending US money. That's the thing. They are demanding we take their money and give them dollars at literally any rate of return.

[Anonymous No.18716996]

>>18716941
When do we short

[Anonymous No.18717031]

>>18716769
Nonetheless though, there is undoubtedly a bailout going on for multiple industries and it will have to go on for the foreseeable future to keep businesses and then banks from failing due to how leveraged most companies are. I stand by my position that our economy is fundamentally unsound and founded entirely upon debt rather than economic productivity. Combating deflation is part of the FED economic policy, but 30 million unemployment applications are realistically insurmountable from an economic perspective. You are looking at a crash here.

>>18716941
>Imagine if the dollar was appreciating by a few percent a year at the same time the stock market was down
I get that, so when faced with that, in addition to record unemployment, in addition to the collapse of the service sector that is going to result from the shutdown, in addition to the people who worked in that sector defaulting on unsecured credit, in addition to landlords and air b&b superhosts defaulting on mortgages, in addition to the housing price collapse that follows such real estate sectors being in trouble and a housing crisis 2.0 where the notes are worth more than the property, what options are really on the table to make all of this work? We are in straight up nightmare economics right now.

[Anonymous No.18717037]

>>18716996

lmao

Then we get into the whole thing about the financial economy vs the real economy and if the real economy is what we commonly think it is, and if someone at the fry station at McDonald's is actually participating in the real economy

[Anonymous No.18717079]

>>18717037
Think you tagged the wrong person there, but alas', when market crash. Cant be far when TSLA is chilling above the 61.8 of the entire move down.. My eyes are deceiving me

[Anonymous No.18717149]

>>18717037
>Then we get into the whole thing about the financial economy vs the real economy and if the real economy is what we commonly think it is, and if someone at the fry station at McDonald's is actually participating in the real economy
EXACTLY! What is even real? The mcdonalds employee making $8.25/hr who also gets food stamps and section 8 housing, how is that real? How is the banking sector taking out loans at below inflation and then lending at 5-6% real? How is boeing being propped up besides destroying their brand through cheap pajeet coders real? How is any of this real? Everything is either debt or government subsidized or government subsidized debt! It's all completely fucked.

[Anonymous No.18717190]

>>18717031
>We are in straight up nightmare economics right now.

We'll be fine, because the rest of the world is going to finance us. They, however, are completely fucked. The bill for decades of make-believe economics is coming due and the smart money is fleeing in droves. If it weren't for that, we'd be completely fucked.

> in addition to the collapse of the service sector

This is going to be the interesting thing for sure. I personally suspect that we're going to find out what UBI/automation has been implying, which is that the service sector is largely a bunch of make-work that doesn't really do anything in actual economic terms. We'll see.

I suspect a debt jubilee IN SOME FORM is coming, whether it be direct forgiveness, reduced/suspended interest, or more TrumpBux, but we'll have to see what happens.

[Anonymous No.18717286]

>>18717149
>Everything is either debt or government subsidized or government subsidized debt!

Yes, every dollar in circulation is literally debt, since they're loaned rather than just printed. It adds the 4th dimension to economics and it's pretty awesome in some ways

>It's all completely fucked.

What's interesting is how well it works. I mean, imagine having the majority of the working population engaged in these pointless activities that generate zero wealth, everyone washing each others' laundry and frying each others' burgers, that we all agree are about to be automated out of existence (and could've been long ago) -- but that the actual productive, wealth-generating economy kicks in every year to keep a hundred million people working at their make-work jobs.

In a non-crazy economy, we'd have 40% unemployment, but this whole ridiculous-sounding monetarist dance we've got going on ensures that we don't.

[Anonymous No.18717425]

>>18717190
>This is going to be the interesting thing for sure. I personally suspect that we're going to find out what UBI/automation has been implying, which is that the service sector is largely a bunch of make-work that doesn't really do anything in actual economic terms. We'll see.
>
>I suspect a debt jubilee IN SOME FORM is coming, whether it be direct forgiveness, reduced/suspended interest, or more TrumpBux, but we'll have to see what happens.
Which if I wanted to put my schizo hat on I would say is going to be the time they do the completely digital currency "multipass" on your cell phone so your entire identity is one app.

>>18717286
>In a non-crazy economy, we'd have 40% unemployment, but this whole ridiculous-sounding monetarist dance we've got going on ensures that we don't.
The problem with these scenarios is how dysgenic things become. You essentially start taking the position that people who are unqualified to contribute to society still have a right to exist in that society.

[Anonymous No.18717548]

can we get a tl;dr chief

[Anonymous No.18717567]

>>18717548
its fucked, big time

[Anonymous No.18717586]

>>18717548
but seriously, read the thread. very well worth it.

[Anonymous No.18717616]

>>18717567
thank god

[Anonymous No.18717626]

>>18717425
>Which if I wanted to put my schizo hat on I would say is going to be the time they do the completely digital currency "multipass" on your cell phone so your entire identity is one app.

95% chance of something like that, I think

>The problem with these scenarios is how dysgenic things become. You essentially start taking the position that people who are unqualified to contribute to society still have a right to exist in that society.

Yeah, then we get into wealth vs money vs value, which are related but separate concepts. I mean, a McDonald's worker's main value in an economy is to act as a more or less decentralized node for money to flow through. When you get a million of them, they provide a 100% accurate judge of value through their consumption choices, which generates wealth by incentivizing producers to create wealth by providing value. So, while producing no wealth intrinsically, receiving a paycheck and spending it causes them to become a vitally necessary part of a wealth-generating machine. And that's without getting into banking and credit and investments. The complexity of all of it is really staggering.

And then you get into the 4th-dimension stuff, like a McDonald's worker's kid being the next Steve Jobs or Henry Ford and oh Christ. What if a person's contribution to society is just to birth and raise the guy who createst the next iPhone or Model T?

And that's just economically, there are of course more ways a human contributes to society than economics.

[Anonymous No.18717703]

>>18715556
>asset depreciation is deflation
best goy.

[Anonymous No.18717742]

>>18717703

lmao I knew this was coming.

>>18716502
>Right now trillions of dollars of wealth are fleeing Europe and the emerging markets and trying to take shelter in the USD, creating a massive demand for dollars that the circulating supply is nowhere near enough to supply. So, in order to prevent massive deflation, which is the real economy-killer, the Fed is printing money basically as fast as they can. That's why the money supply has exploded in a way that made the 2008+ QE look like nothing, but we're seeing zero inflation. Every dollar printed is being snatched up by foreign investors.

[Anonymous No.18717750]

>>18717149
the right flips out whenever they learn this but the left already knew the economy is centrally managed and politics is important

[Anonymous No.18717774]

>>18717626
I am a rather strict adherent to evolution or at least the beneficial aspects of "natural selection" and fundamentally we are entering the territory of either allowing reproduction with no qualification, incentivized sterilization or some kind of voluntary eugenics program that is pretty dystopian to even think about. I agree that we already essentially have a class of people who are a "consumer" class, people who contribute essentially nothing besides their preference for commodities they can afford. You could then take your entire model of what is the "real economy" one step further and say that the people making goods for this useless consumer class are themselves unnecessary since they are only there to give away things to people who do not add anything of value. So what point do things become real? Do you have to be an innovator to be real? Are HR departments real? Are lawyers real? I mean for me construction is real. Technology and producing material goods are real pursuits. Logistics and infrastructure work is real. Creating code etc. is real. It's weird to think about.

[Anonymous No.18717808]

>>18717750
It has only been centrally managed since Woodrow Wilson, the creation of the FED and income tax. After that, Lyndon Johnson presided over its expansion. It really is insane how quickly everything has gone to hell.

[Anonymous No.18717883]

>>18717774
>It's weird to think about.

Right? It's a big fun game we're all playing, and the worst/best thing is that people are given basically no education, or worse WRONG education, about how any of it works. Worst because you end up with all these poor people who don't want to be poor but have no idea how not to be poor, because they've never been taught the poor/rich rules, best because it is an incredibly Darwinian system while making the consequences of failure extremely merciful (you fail, but failure in this society is a standard of living far better than any emperor had 100 years ago, and greater than 95% of the world's population today).

But the point of the game seems to be to keep everyone alive and more or less happy, so that's a pretty good game compared to other ones humanity's played, such as Kill All The Other Guys

[Anonymous No.18717935]

>>18717808
works fine, people live well

[Anonymous No.18717976]

>>18717883
>failure in this society is a standard of living far better than any emperor had 100 years ago, and greater than 95% of the world's population today
I would disagree with that. Opportunities for freedom and recreation are quite limited for the majority of urban dwellers up through the middle class. Sure, you have a fridge and a TV and internet. But you can't go out into nature and enjoy the outdoors the same way. Maybe I am a bit TedPilled, but I think our worlds are far smaller today than at any time in history. We certainly have nice things like air conditioning and central heating, but we live in smaller spaces, have less contact with our communities, and spend most of our hours staring at glowing rectangles rather than other hobbies.

[Anonymous No.18718033]

>>18717935
I disagree. Income inequality is at all time highs. Property value skyrocketing has people moving an hour from their place of employment. Population density has people living in small apartments with little access to the outdoors. Work is rather unfulfilling. The family unit is ever degrading. All of our recreational time is spent staring at screens. Community engagement is at all time lows. It might be working for you, but I would like a bit more fulfillment rather than a bit more creature comforts in an ever smaller world.

[Anonymous No.18718134]

>>18717976
>But you can't go out into nature and enjoy the outdoors the same way.

Sure you can, just go.

>We certainly have nice things like air conditioning and central heating, but we live in smaller spaces, have less contact with our communities, and spend most of our hours staring at glowing rectangles rather than other hobbies.

You can do all of these things any time you want, though. You spend your time staring at the glowing rectangle because it's a more fulfilling activity to you than going outside. Should it be? Who decides? By what criteria? Good questions, but it's a wonderful problem to have when the Big Questions of your society involve addressing paralysis of too much freedom, rather than the traditional How Not To Starve or How Not To Get Burned At The Stake/Shot/Sent To The Camps.

And if you think we're in small spaces these days, you should check out some 19th-century working class housing, or 20th-century in Communist countries, or most of Europe today. It's wild! 4-500 square feet per family, it's obscene. I mean, air conditioning in most parts of this country is just kind of normal, whereas even today in most of the First World it's an incredible luxury.

There's never been more freedom, at a higher standard of living, anywhere ever. And we here get to define what fulfilment is for ourselves, which is possibly the first time that's happened since ancient Greece. For most people it's staring at the nightmare rectangle, but that's most people for ya.

And, for the most part, the overlords seem to actually be pretty benevolent, or at least disinterested. It's a unique time to be alive.

[Anonymous No.18718202]

>>18718134
One of the most interesting points I have seen someone make is that the only place freedom exists is the frontier. Perhaps this is all simply the transition of humanity from the age of exploration and conquest to that of commodification and saturation. It's a bit sad to think about, for me at least.

[Anonymous No.18718322]

>>18718202
> I have seen someone make is that the only place freedom exists is the frontier.

The weird thing is, if you think about it, the guy on the frontier has an incredibly limited set of choices to make compared to a city dweller, but we all agree that frontier is the very image of freedom. If you woke up one day in your city and found that everyone but you had disappeared, would that be freedom too?

Maybe the only real oppression nowadays is the opinion of other people. Or, I guess more accurately, that little voice in our heads that says "But if I do this, what will people think of me?"

[Anonymous No.18718528]

>>18718322
>The weird thing is, if you think about it, the guy on the frontier has an incredibly limited set of choices to make compared to a city dweller, but we all agree that frontier is the very image of freedom.
The frontiersman has far more choices to make than a city dweller. What does a city dweller choose? What to eat? What pair of pants to buy? What car he drives? Who to call to solve his problem (police, pest control, carpenter, mechanic, etc.)? Whereas the frontiersman can choose to solve his pest problem with a gun or a trap or a fire. The frontiersman can choose where he wants his home, so long as he has the skill to build it. The frontiersman can choose many things, the consequences of his choices are of course far more dire though. I would argue that the city dweller has far fewer life-impacting choices to make than the frontiersman. What to watch on tv, etc. Sure, there may be more choices, but little that actually impacts his life.

[Anonymous No.18718557]

>>18718528
Perhaps part of it is also the freedom to fail, if that makes sense.

[Anonymous No.18718692]

>>18718528

I don't think you've actually lived in primitive conditions before, lol -- my career's mineral exploration, so I spent most of my 20s living in tents in various remote locations in the Third World. Most of your choices out there are survival-based. How do I feed myself, how do I not get eaten, how do I not die by exposure, that's pretty much it. You're only living a slightly more complex life than any other predator in the same area. And I assure you the romance of nature is lessened significantly the first time you take a shit on a hill while every exposed inch of skin is covered with mosquitoes and blackflies, thousands of them, very sensitive areas, and an hour later it all itches so bad you want to scream.

City dwellers, who have their survival needs covered, have a functionally infinite number of choices to make. Just the act of going to the library or firing up Google gives you an infinite array of new skills you can learn, languages, sciences, authors and art forms you can become familiar with, etc. There are a hundred different cuisines you can go try out, religions or spiritual systems to study, or you can just meditate or waste hours on anime imageboards. da Vinci would weep if he'd had just a glimpse of the average urbanite's life nowadays.

And city dwellers can always just leave and head out into the woods anyway!

[Jerome Powell No.18718789]

Shit is fucked, and mark my words nobody will ever fucking blame central bankers for what they have single-handedly caused.

My bet is that blame will be shifted to regular bankers for causing a speculative bubble and the government will outright nationalise banks and other credit institutions, leading to a situation similar to what was described above with a state-issued digital currency and a bank account at your central bank.

And then it starts all over again.

[Jerome Powell No.18718826]

>>18718789

I have always maintained that crypto is our only way out of this mess and the ONLY way we can avoid the dystopia that is coming. It is critical that we work on driving adoption numbers up so people don't use a government-issued fiat currency when the entire thing collapses, because otherwise our freedom will be gone for a long, long time.

The fate of humanity literally depends on it, and I'm not saying that lightly or using hyperbole.

[Jerome Powell No.18718853]

>>18718789
>>18718826

Satoshi Nakamoto will be remembered in a hundred or two-hundred years as the person that single-handedly saved us from economic and social disintegration. It is critical that we fulfil his legacy and end the fed once and for all.

[Jerome Powell No.18718946]

>>18718853

What does this mean in practice?

It means to stop caring too much about fiat valuations and the fluctuations in crypto prices on exchanges. Yes, we all want to get rich, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it is more important that we do our god-given duty to care about society and guard against fraudulent and dishonest expropriation through central banking.

We must inform our fellow man about what is going on with our money, we must build the tools and services that will help our neighbours to use crypto in his daily life, and we must stop using government-issued currency as a protest against central planning and totalitarianism.

Monetary control and central banking is not simply about controlling the amount of money you have in your bank account, what it really is is control of the very fabric of society. It enriches the rich and impoverishes the poor, it destroys the family, and it is the greatest scam and indeed the greatest societal aggression in the history of mankind.

They must be stopped, the fate of our children depend on it.

[Jerome Powell No.18719021]

>>18718789
>>18718826
>>18718853
>>18718946

This monologue may sound cringe when you read it, but it is the most important subject that we can possibly discuss. More important than climate change, more important than LGBTQ rights, and more important than gibs.

It is a shame that this board has degenerated into shilling for shitcoins and discussions of other random bullshit, because this is what we really should be discussing since it is the intellectual foundation of cryptocurrency and is the reason Satoshi Nakamoto invented it. This is why regulators and central bankers are scared and they will try everything to stop the growth of crypto, but we must not give up and be fooled into thinking that the most important trait of crypto is getting rich quick through speculation.

[Anonymous No.18719033]

>>18715463
Stop snorting Adderall.

[Anonymous No.18719043]

>>18718692
I mean I have done hunting and camping and heated with wood etc. It isn't glorious, but you get to do more active things than passive things, which is what you are describing the city dweller's choices as.

[Anonymous No.18719383]

>>18719021
When do we short everything?

[Anonymous No.18719500]

>>18719033
I only drink and dip.

>>18719383
I would say now. It's going to crab until it drops. We are ~15% from ATH territory. It might go up a bit more, but there is no fundamental reason for things to improve right now.

[Anonymous No.18719770]

>>18719500
Earnings this week will be quite the show

[Anonymous No.18719877]

>>18719770
I mean yeah, but it depends on the sector. The smallest chain restaurants out there are the best targets, you don't want something big enough that the government is going to intervene. These are going to be falling left and right for the next few months. Basically, the entire service sector is in a liquidity crisis right now. The one's with accounting dept's are going to be getting sweet loans from the SBA though, so you basically are looking to be as predatory as possible. Another good option are food suppliers to small shitty restaurants. Follow the chain of supply to the businesses that are closed. Short and sell when you have made moderate gains though because the government has to bail these businesses out or we are looking at society-disrupting levels of unemployment. The stockmarket is going to be completely bipolar for a while until consumer confidence just tanks and people start fighting in grocery stores. Or, this week is the big crash when everyone realizes everything is fucked. Next quarter might even get worse.

[Anonymous No.18719902]

>>18719770
Also, high end liquor/booze is tanking right now.

[Anonymous No.18720474]

>>18719021
lol crypto has always been a setup dude. you really think it wasnt some glowie operation from the get go? get out of here man

[Anonymous No.18721139]

Another tread in which nostalgic boomers talk about nothing

IGNORED

saged

[Anonymous No.18721260]

should i buy a gun

[Anonymous No.18721342]

>>18721260
yeah

[Anonymous No.18722537]

>>18718946
Unironically thought about this a lot. It'll take generations for Bitcoin to become properly entrenched in our society. It is the people's money.

[Anonymous No.18723339]

>>18722537
I don't think bitcoin works very well for everyday transactions.

[Anonymous No.18723765]

>>18716502
>and hours they had during the boom
Come on how could it be deflation when fed is prnting like crazy?