IDENA is the new paradigm

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IDENA is the new paradigm Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:27:55 2020 No.18543608 [Reply] [Original]

See pic. Name one project doing decentralized identity that isn't vaporware or just a glorified centralized solution? Name one project doing cryptoUBI at this scale? Now imagine all the possibilities once IDENA moves on from experimental mainnet. This isn't a China hustle. This isn't a scam. Check the Github repo. The team is building out like mad men. This is new paradigm plain and simple.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:32:52 2020 No.18543672 >>18543608 I will buy a coin with american anon devs vs. a chink team any day of the week

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:34:35 2020 No.18543695 >>18543608 Cool idea but absolutely useless.

>>	None !!4Q4GPiJqN0q Sat Apr 18 19:36:12 2020 No.18543719 > post idena address. > get DNA.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:36:16 2020 No.18543720 >>18543695 Yep, usecases need to be figured out. I'm still bullish though. I've added 1k on to my stack in a month and the team is A1 with releasing updates with the network/client. Really can't lose with 1.5m mcap.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:42:55 2020 No.18543813 >>18543608 What's the DNA token for? As far as I can understand you basically mine it, and then sell it. That's pretty much like every other token. What's so special about it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:44:08 2020 No.18543836 >>18543720 Identity layer for ETH is a massive use case. Defi projects implementing it brings it past Chainlink's tier alone.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:45:15 2020 No.18543853 >>18543719 0xa51d79c54def00ec8792229443abec50f7c089e0 big brother come through for me please

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:45:55 2020 No.18543861

>>18543813
https://idena.io/?view=manifesto#
https://idena.io/IdenaPitchDeck.pdf
Novel blockchain, AI/sybil resistant, novel consensus protocol. It's pretty much an entirely new concept, not designed to compete with Bitcoin or Ethereum (in fact, it's interoperable with Ethereum and can be used as the digital identity layer on it).

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:55:49 2020 No.18544013 >>18543861 Thanks. I have visited the website already, but I don't see any clean explanations about the uses for the token (Dna) right now. You mine it, and then you sell it. That's about it, right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 19:56:39 2020 No.18544022 >>18543719 >> post idena address. >> get DNA. youre really such a good friend

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:06:21 2020 No.18544153

>>18544013
I think the usecase involving advertising is kinda bullshit now but identity sign-on and quadratic voting are both exciting. Digital identity is gonna get big in the next few years for sure. Seems like usecases for this will pop up in given time with ideas of what the network could be involved with or what other entities could positively benefit from this
>>18543719
0xff6072fda81a68ac6ca278e2ef389d3cce6d709d

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:12:50 2020 No.18544238 >>18543719 0x0189667823a1e40916023101253100cd023c93b6

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:14:49 2020 No.18544269

>>18544153
Also, adding on to this, this is a good thread from archive >>18529393. The one still up is ok but it doesn't have the same level of quality of discussion. That thread was a fairly honest critical perspective from token holders and people mining.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:15:51 2020 No.18544290 >>18544269 linked wrong thread >>18495915

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:16:01 2020 No.18544294 >>18543719 0xf03bb2bb0969d94a4b0bf6f6bed23abdbfefb17c

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:20:40 2020 No.18544358 >>18543719 How about an invite?

>>	None !!4Q4GPiJqN0q Sat Apr 18 20:28:12 2020 No.18544461 >>18544358 create a flip (and scramble) in client using the words: > Electronics > Vote post

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:30:02 2020 No.18544486 >>18544153 In fairness the advertising was just pitched as a potential usecase not THE usecase in their pitch deck. That being said it could work still.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:32:36 2020 No.18544535 >>18543719 >actually delivered my man

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:39:09 2020 No.18544610 >>18543719 0xeeb35c70efa3d25b162487ddef64dc3f13da5e3f

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:42:38 2020 No.18544659 >>18544461 do you have another invite?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:42:54 2020 No.18544664 Idena is one of those projects that justify all the time spent lurking biz. It's early and there are still issues to iron out with the project but at under 2M cap this is an incredible bet.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:47:10 2020 No.18544721 File: 163 KB, 1920x999, Screenshot_20200418_174451.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18544461

>>	None !!4Q4GPiJqN0q Sat Apr 18 20:55:50 2020 No.18544820 >>18544721 impressive, anon. i trust you won't squander this opportunity. what's your e-mail?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 20:58:53 2020 No.18544865 >>18544820 captainjackskellington24@gmail.com

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 21:03:55 2020 No.18544936 File: 72 KB, 560x605, acropolis-thumbs-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18543608 hqdailydaze@gmail.com ty anon

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 21:05:09 2020 No.18544953 >>18543608 0x4d233009424fc08d46841c3c31e00214f3b051a8 PL0X the pajeet is poor

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 21:06:05 2020 No.18544963 >>18543719 Please and Thank You!!! 0xb59ee1ed18941ec76fa8dcd29d96191dcbccd01d

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 21:30:24 2020 No.18545238 Idena is the best thing for biz. Imagine, DNA validated anonymous identities without that godawful captcha.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 21:48:51 2020 No.18545448

>>18543608
https://idena.io This is basically just a blockchain to TRAIN AI on how to be more human. left vs right..? that's it? Flips are simple and the left/right distinction will learn quickly. This is not secure. wtf

take the FLIP test yourself. this is MINING? yeah right

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 21:53:00 2020 No.18545502 >>18545448 They literally have a monetary prize for anyone that can make an AI that will solve flips

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 21:53:02 2020 No.18545504

>>18545448
AI solves at a right of 50% by default. Short session requires at least 66% for candidates iirc but increases with time in the network, long session is the real question if an AI is capable of solving 20/20 flips with at least 90% accuracy. It hasn’t been successfully done with Winograd test, and if an AI can learn patterns and intricacies of culturally relevant cause and effect were all fucked fren. There’s more info in detail on medium posts and on the idena website

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 21:53:51 2020 No.18545514

>>18543608
>>18545448
As this thing scales it'll just become an IQ test and bots will win. Maybe I don't understand it... I'm happy to admin I don't. But this is just a glorified CAPTCHA from what I can tell taking the test. Flips can't = mining in any sense if this is to serve as a verification mechanism for HUMAN identity. What am I missing?

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 21:56:50 2020 No.18545552 I originally liked the concept, until I joined the telegram and some annoying Indian guy gave me an invite. He proceeded to message me 3 times a day to remind me about validation in 10 days..

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 21:57:22 2020 No.18545561 >>18545514 The point is that bots won't win because they can't pass the test with more than 50% accuracy. You can set a filter of "90%+ required" on whatever web app, service whatever

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:01:21 2020 No.18545627

>>18545504
If it comes down to "culturally relevant" then this is fu*** if it comes down to humans making these puzzles. Humans have an apathy level and a "minimum input required threshold". We won't put as much work into the puzzles as an AI will into breaking them. This is not secure at all. It's betting AGAINST AI.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:01:44 2020 No.18545631 >>18545552 Yikes. Got my invite from someone on discord early March, never had that issue. I was halfway tempted to remind a random britbong /biz/raeli about validation but he attended

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:04:09 2020 No.18545661 >>18545631 I missed the validation and he sent an angry private message, kek. I should have probably done it, as it was late last year and I would probably have a nice stack by now.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:04:43 2020 No.18545670

>>18545627
AGI is required to solve flips successively each validation with enough accuracy to "infect" the network. When that day comes, cryptocurrency will be permafucked until someone makes quantum-AI-resistant blockchain (likely lending from the same sources that help break these sytems). We're still far away from that. Pattern recognition is too complex with this imo, especially after attending 4 validations and with personal experience

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:05:47 2020 No.18545686 Humans are not going construct increasingly difficult "puzzles" to confuse AI and other humans just to secure their own digital identity. This is glorified CAPTCHA. ID2020 is looking better by the day. Bring on mark of the beast 666

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:08:23 2020 No.18545721

>>18545670
If there is any negative feedback to bots (e.g. sorry those answers didn't meet the threshold), then the bots are learning. AGI is not required. Wasn't required for Chess or Go or Dota or Starcraft, which are more complicated, and won't be required for a simple Left/Right distinction which gives feedback to the bot.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:08:32 2020 No.18545723 >>18545661 >late last year Definitely missed out, even with the earliest viewable epoch on scan.idena.io those rewards were pretty fucking handsome. Probably wouldve sold at the bottom though desu >>18545686 Glow harder faggot

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:09:49 2020 No.18545746 >>18545723 Not a fa**ot but I do work for the CIA and you should be careful criticizing us

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:11:26 2020 No.18545767 >>18545723 This is biz, I would have definitely sold the bottom.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:14:16 2020 No.18545817 Is it worth buying a bag right now?

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:19:00 2020 No.18545883

>>18545721
>Wasn't required for Chess or Go or Dota or Starcraft, which are more complicated
AI handles what humans perceive as complexity just fine, it sucks at flips because flips require you to actually understand images and cause and effect, and the dataset of "literally any image" is too large to train an AI on

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:21:04 2020 No.18545908

>A flip is a sort of a CAPTCHA that helps to determine whether a user is human. In contrast to a CAPTCHA, which stands for "Completely Automated Public Turing test to tell Computers and Humans Apart" and is usually generated by an automated service, a flip should be created by a human. And unlike a usual CAPTCHA, which is based on object recognition, solving a flip requires a semantic interpretation of the relationship between objects.

So 4 picture-blocks is enough? Is IDENA gonna ask us to configure 16 picture blocks? or 32? or 1000? How many picture-blocks to deceive an AI? This is ridiculous.

I will admit I haven't read the whitepaper. But I did do a CAPTCHA to make this post.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:22:37 2020 No.18545920 >>18543608 Im getting validated next time. No matter what!

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:24:26 2020 No.18545938

>>18545883
If the bot is presented with a Left vs Right situation and gets a 0 or 1 result at the end, then it will learn. If it gets ANY feedback from the results of the test.

We're assuming, here, that a bot is actively trying to break this system. And I'm assuming that state actors and others haven't been working the last 10 years to figure out how to break CAPTCHAs. AI is more powerful and this system is just glorified CAPTCHAs.

This is what it appears to me.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:28:30 2020 No.18545986

>>18545883
It's not "literally any image" when you're dealing with humans. Will you do as much work as a bot will in order to secure your own identity? Will you create complex puzzles? How again does this not devolve into an IQ test which humans will fail?

If you give a bot a simple Left/Right choice and then give the bot feedback (e.g. you chose Left, but that was incorrect), and ..... assuming the bot remembers the images and other context clues... then IDENA is basically just training bots.

What am I missing?

CAPTCHA is not digital identity. Bring on 666 i'm ready

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:31:06 2020 No.18546020

>>18545908
pretty much >>18545883. The AI you're talking about is programmed for the games and train using the limitations set. there are no limitations set with flips, users can draw their own pics, cause and effect plays a large role that only humans *should* recognize. too many cues for an AI at these levels to break it, regardless of how well AI has done with breaking google captchas/similar.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:32:22 2020 No.18546036 >>18543719 please 0x9cd8aaee2ae5437ace0858dd888b7309b59820f9

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:32:55 2020 No.18546046

>>18545938
>>18545986
You can't train an AI to solve flips with today's technology. There are an infinity of image combinations that can have meaning, there is no pattern like you would have for ML problems such as text recognition (from handwriting). In fact, the exact same images put in a different order can have a different meaning. Good luck having an AI be able to solve that, that would basically be AGI.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:34:05 2020 No.18546062 >>18545552 it is "proof of jeet" afterwards. that said, it is undeniably the new LINK

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:37:46 2020 No.18546114 >>18543608 does anyone know how one might find an invitation link??

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:40:21 2020 No.18546150 Humans are not going construct increasingly difficult "puzzles" to confuse AI and other humans just to secure their own digital identity. This is glorified CAPTCHA. ID2020 is looking better by the day. Bring on mark of the beast 666

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:41:14 2020 No.18546166 I just don't see how this can scale.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:45:12 2020 No.18546203

>>18546046
>Each flip contains two stories in pictures. One of them (left or right) is a sequence of pictures that is created by a human as a meaningful story. The other is created by the same author as illogical.

If you rely on humans to create "puzzles", then your thesis is incorrect. Humans have limited time, interest, and agency. They will not work as hard to create puzzles as bots will to break them.

Humans will create puzzles that create patterns because humans act in patterns. We will do this because we are lazy but also because we fall into patterns naturally and can't help it.

>You can't train an AI to solve flips with today's technology

I highly doubt that. Even if you're right, if the bot is presented with a simple Left/Right option & the bot "remembers" what it saw, and has access to a database of knowlege/relationships, then an AI attached to that system is going to learn.

>There are an infinity of image combinations that can have meaning

Not when you're dealing with humans. Humans can't come up with an "infinity" of options. If we could, then human history wouldn't be replete with patterns. Humans, in this case, will repeat patterns

>>Good luck having an AI be able to solve that

Humans are lazy. We won't WORK to "mine" our own digital identity. This system is stupid and will never work. "Mining" needs to mean something different if this is goin g to work.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 22:54:30 2020 No.18546316 >>18543719 0x0ba0750f520f17ecfcc14e4baaff7af08e91ebaf

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 23:01:05 2020 No.18546399

>>18546020
>users can draw their own pics

Users will fall into patterns and create repeated images in aggregate. Repeating motifs, repeating themes, repeat colors, across regions, languages, time, context.. Repeating MEMES! Too many things humans give away. Bots can easily learn very quickly.

Again this is BETTING AGAINST artificial intelligence. The only replies to me in this thread have been "muh AGI"

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 23:23:16 2020 No.18546639 >>18546203 interesting read Feed the first and last image to image recogniser and than word2vec. Patterns will most like begin to emerge. Are you working on any deep learning project?

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 23:24:08 2020 No.18546644
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>>18546399
Interested to see how the network withstands the test of time or what it does if such an eventuality occurs to be honest. No doubt it’s the first mover in PoH crypto and the flip concept is interesting + it’s already withstood a Winograd test. Pic related also. Devs are smart, have been extremely active and seem to have accounted for various attack circumstances.

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 23:25:03 2020 No.18546658 File: 265 KB, 1300x1500, 1562851464644.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18543719 0x613e5b0ff456289f687d61ab265e3fb2fa70eb33 Cheers

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 23:29:58 2020 No.18546711

>>18546639
No I'm not... it's common sense.

I'm assuming if this is supposed to be a HUMAN DIGITAL IDENTITY SOLUTION, then the biggest threats are state actors and others with large resources. Not "spam bots" and "tricksters."

This isn't even Proof of Work... it literally relies on HUMAN AGENCY to create complex puzzles that can fool sufficiently motivated parties. It's ridiculous.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 23:46:05 2020 No.18546890

>>18546711
it's experimental, we will see how it goes.

No one is sure that anything will work as it should in the crypto space.
This is a new approach and even based on this fact it will gain a lot of momentum in the short term.

If you buy now you can't lose.

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 23:51:30 2020 No.18546944

>>18546711
I saw a good argument against bad actors a while ago, can’t repeat it from memory and don’t want to sound like a dumbass. It’s still in testnet desu and it has a more complete framework than 99% of crypto with its own built from the ground up blockchain. It costs literally nothing to mine and accumulate. If the project is successful in its pursuit of decentralized identity layer on Eth or independent PoH then you’ll be pretty happy for mining with almost 0 effort besides waking up once a week for 15 minutes. I’m sure devs recognize potential pitfalls if they’ve worked this hard on this project and made it this far, just an optimistic perspective but not invalid

Anonymous Sat Apr 18 23:58:08 2020 No.18547008

>>18546944
Also the arguments against PoW and PoS are plentiful and listed in the manifesto on the site and the pitch deck. Most coins are premined to absolute hell with very few nodes/miners deciding consensus for the network (which is centralization in itself). Chinks own Bitcoin mining, not necessarily the supply but the hashrate. NEO has very few delegates, same for EOS and a very few own the majority of ETH. Idena will decide consensus by quadratic voting via sharding (which is more fair than practically all voting systems, read about quadratic voting)

>>	Anonymous Sat Apr 18 23:58:32 2020 No.18547012 >>18546944 I don't doubt that at all

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:01:22 2020 No.18547043 File: 118 KB, 600x600, 1568909786075.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:01:53 2020 No.18547050

Idena could turn very big if it gets the lightning from the ones...Decentralized identity is going through a very BIG push especially after Cornona. Look at ID2020, Decentralized Identity foundation. DIDs. The only difference between what Idena is building and all the other applications being built by the likes of Microsoft, Accenture, MyPasa, IDF, Rockerfeller Foundation and others is that they are combining blockchain with your bio-metrics whereas Idena is purely pushing for a geek-styled, crypto-anarchistic and cypherpunked identity definition that is you only have to prove your consciousness and humanness to be counted as an identity. THIS COULD BE VERY BIG PEOPLE! Just Think about it for a second brainy anons. This message is not for Brainless newfags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aR7cz30chE

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:02:25 2020 No.18547054 File: 80 KB, 603x584, 1580529070580.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:03:27 2020 No.18547066 File: 562 KB, 965x1200, 1583944413599.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:04:19 2020 No.18547077

>>18546890
Agreed, new approaches are good.

>If you buy now you can't lose.

I've heard that one before. In fact, I've believed that one before and lost a lot of money. Number go up number go down. I've lost a lot of money doing this. If you don't have a lot of money (like me), you can't invest on ideas - you have to invest on fundamentals or you'll lose. If you invest on ideas you're basically day trading just over a longer scale. You'll "invest" today and number go up... then 6 months from now number go down.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:04:30 2020 No.18547079 File: 230 KB, 1030x1284, 1563383035795.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:18:10 2020 No.18547217 >>18547077 it's so hard to spot the projects with good fundamentals, you have to be expert in a lot of fields Have you find anything worthwhile ?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:22:42 2020 No.18547259 >>18547217 found*

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:24:41 2020 No.18547276

>>18546890
>>18546890
Agreed, new approaches are good & I agree with your whole comment.

>If you buy now you can't lose.

I've heard that one before. In fact, I've believed that one before and lost a lot of money. Number go up number go down. I've lost a lot of money doing this. If you don't have a lot of money (like me), you can't invest on ideas - you have to invest on fundamentals or you'll lose. If you invest on ideas you're basically day trading just over a longer scale. You'll "invest" today and number go up... then 6 months from now number go down.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:30:55 2020 No.18547337 How many peers should my node have if it's working properly?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:34:45 2020 No.18547364 Newbie at 53 $DNA... looking forward to the next validation to get me closer to 100... it's a little bit demotivating to see early adopters with tens of thousands. How are my Idena brothers doing?

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:40:00 2020 No.18547412

>>18547364
You’ll receive more for submitting flips, first validation is the least rewards. A lot of people bought stacks and are mining and a decent amount (myself included) bought upwards of 10-20k after the first thread in late February. I’m at about 1k/month at this point (Verified, off by 3% for human last validation)
>>18547337
My node starts fairly quickly, usually connects to 6 peers or so. Try discord if you keep having issues, it’s better than tg for tech issues. I had one minor issue a while ago that was quick to resolve.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:46:08 2020 No.18547480 File: 16 KB, 450x300, shiro extreme stance.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18547412 I read about bigger rewards on the discord - I just didn't know if it would be a significant difference. Thanks for the info, anon - hope you make it

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:49:42 2020 No.18547519

>>18547217
I had a lot of bitcoin in the early days, 2009-2011. I lost all of my btc due to a stupid mistake.

Because of that I left crypto for a few years and missed the best smart contract platform since bitcoin (Ethereum).

I got back into crypto (with no money) in 2016, looking for the next ethereum. By 2017 I realized that there is no "next" ethereum, only niche competitors (in my opinion).

I learned about "oracles" by accident, reading a random article I can't remember, and then because of the 2016 election I decided to revisit 4chan, randomly visited biz (for the first time, I was always on pol) and stumbled across chainlink. Started investigating oracles in general, and then dove deeper into chainlink.

I would say as far as fundamentals are concerned, a smart contract platform that can incorporate external data will result in everything we thought bitcoin would eventually do to the world.

there are other oracles, but chainlink seems to me to have the most clout with enterprise. i'm biased. But smart contracts + oracles are everything we always thought bitcoin would realize in the early days IMHO.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 00:57:27 2020 No.18547601 >>18547519 godspeed anon, I hope you make it like the rest of us godforsaken chainlink holders

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:02:36 2020 No.18547658 >>18547601 same to you

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:03:16 2020 No.18547667

>>18546046
I think you're incorrect. I would imagine if a bot was give enough time it could store its fails and successes on each flip. If the bot fails a flip it knows there are only four images. All that bot would have to do is fail that same flip until it gets it correct which it then stores to never fail that particular flip again. This system only works if the bot couldn't possibly hope to ever repeat the same flip enough times to get it right. I'd imagine some image recognition software could easily chop these individual flips up and store the fails and re-scramble them.How am I wrong?

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:06:01 2020 No.18547691

>>18546203
>>18546399
AI for the foreseeable future can not solve the Human-common-sense patterns with the Idena's "Human" status (>92%) even if it is allowed to have a look at million of flips.

There was a research study done in Japan in 90s where an AI robot was allowed to observe humans from childhood to teens I think but the robot, despite having a huge data set of human experiences, could not portray even very common human-sense patterns. The state of affairs today is still not very different from that study.

What people get confused about is the sharp rise of recently growing narrow-AI apps (Google's Siri, Chess bots for example). What they fail to recognize is that a very little practical development has taken place in AI that addresses Wide or Hard AI situations and questions. Flips come under the later.

The trick is in the infinite possibilities between different pictures within each flip. Even same picture in two different common-sense narratives can dictate a hugely different result in humans' reasoning. The machines are not capable, as of now, to decipher the infinite possibilities of pattern relationships humans are capable of.

The dictator can't sustain his efforts to subdue a large group of subservient sheeple to perform validations for him because of (A) scarcity of invites (B) sheeples' own self interests and (C) the prudence of capital---No one invests capital to garner losses on sustainable basis.

Security through obfuscation is reemerging in cryptography again and is relatively fair hurdle in the training of an GAN-based AI. Test of time would further prove these assertions though.

If Idena becomes big then we might see few large interests employing their capital in creating a very large data set of Flips through, for example, Mechanical Turk. Then we might have reasonable studies to determine whether AI has the slightest capability of attaining for example an Idena "Human" status.

Until the rise of AGI, this seems very unfeasible.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:12:53 2020 No.18547769 >>18546203 >Humans have limited time, interest, and agency. And there is where a part of DNA price mechanism could be traced.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:13:58 2020 No.18547781 >>18547691 You say millions of combinations but flips have far fewer combinations. Figure one out and store it forever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:16:40 2020 No.18547804 File: 805 KB, 1200x1000, A2D89F45-8E8D-461B-8C57-8EE702974F7E.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18543719 0x0732cdd1a2ee9ad27f567a6b2fe5a3d4863f177 Badaboom badabee don’t forget me

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:18:04 2020 No.18547821

>>18547691
I understand what you're saying about narrow AI.

But all the replies in this thread assume that a "bot" or AI can't see the images for the FIRST TIME and construct a story as good as, or better, than humans. It doesn't need a "data set". It doesn't have to be ML.... If IDENA wants to limit the validators, that doesn't solve the problem.

It's very easy to imagine that the bot/AI could be trained on ANOTHER data set and then simply front as a valid validator.

Again, this whole thing is betting AGAINST AI. PoH will not work if it relies on human agency and human creativity.

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:18:36 2020 No.18547827

>>18547781
>flips have far fewer combinations

Look again. Try to understand the underlying assumptions and assertions I tried to communicate above. Ideally there exist a reasonably "infinite" pattern and visual combinations even if the same picture is used in millions of different situations. The critical aspect is not the picture itself but its relationship with the other chronologically arranged pictures.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:19:11 2020 No.18547832 >>18547769 As I mentioned above, I haven't read the whitepaper. Does IDENA incorporate DNA?

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:28:11 2020 No.18547887

>>18547821
>>18547821
Think again, do some academic and industry research and then conclude. These reasoning are hardly making "practical", "ideological' and "Philosophical" sense at best.

>But all the replies in this thread assume that a "bot" or AI can't see the images for the FIRST TIME and construct a story as good as, or better, than humans. It doesn't need a "data set". It doesn't have to be ML....

Flips making by a bot or an AI would come later; first it has to solve the human common-sense conundrum.

> Again, this whole thing is betting AGAINST AI.

It's established human reasoning. As I said it is very reasonable to assert now that an AI can not or will, probably, not attain a common-sense level which only humans are capable of. If AGI is achieved then Idena would be the least concern for the world as the very thread on which our world is functioning now would have to be altered on a philosophical level. AGI is nothing more than a sweet pipe dream of some researchers as of now. Established studies although evolving can't comprehend the infinity space of human articulations.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:28:55 2020 No.18547894 >>18543719 0x69abc93f954fa4c0f51b10a314b54637626b89c2 After your kind donation, I will have both my parents and you to thank for my DNA

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:29:47 2020 No.18547902 >>18543608 >Name one project doing decentralized identity that isn't vaporware You first.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:34:07 2020 No.18547942 0x53128a58c4604f6bf0ed651893e1170e85572081 Cheers mate!

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:35:35 2020 No.18547951

>>18547832
> Does IDENA incorporate DNA

DNA is the native coin of Idena and is incorporated within the protocol to sustain the incentivized human network interactions. Because a decentralized system would literally fail without any economic ingredients reasonably baked within the protocol.

Right now, apart from speculation, DNA gets its value from a) Just the human network itself b) the cost of hosting the node c) the cost of time put into doing validations, making flips and voting in the committee and d) maybe,as you eluded, the cost of scarcity of humans' time, interest and agency factors.

As use-cases emerge those would also become part of DNA value mechanism. It's first of its kind network and let us see how it complies with the test of time and other critical network parameters.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:36:32 2020 No.18547958 >>18543719 0x0732cdd1a2ee9ad27f567a6b2fe5a3d4863f1772 Bls

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 01:56:10 2020 No.18548103 >>18547827 One flip does not have many combinations. If a bot can remember what it saw and replicate that old flip and create a new response based off old info from that same flip to generate a new answer it will beat it after a handful of attempts.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 02:17:18 2020 No.18548285 >>18547902 IDENA faggot. That's it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 02:19:24 2020 No.18548309 >>18547050 UBI is easily the biggest selling point and the usecase we should be pushing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 02:30:29 2020 No.18548364 Has anybody realized that this is a currency backed by your humanity? One of the most scarce resources on the planet. Kind of neat

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 02:37:00 2020 No.18548406 0x89d44201A12AE52103201c031E62B09cC61FAc7B Thank you

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 03:11:18 2020 No.18548623 >>18548103 A bot won’t have access to the flips, flups change every validation.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 04:06:56 2020 No.18549161 >>18547951 Thanks for your in depth replies. Are you saying that physical deoxyribonucleic acid is involved in this project? I'll read the whitepaper. Either way, I'm interested in digital identity. Good luck to you and all your ventures.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 04:37:50 2020 No.18549338 >>18548623 mind blown, thanks.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 04:46:14 2020 No.18549386 OH MY GOD WHAT A FANTASTIC READ. BIZ FINALLY FOUND SOMETHING WORTH HAVING AN INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION ABOUT. WE ARE ALL GUNNA MAKE IT BRO.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 05:04:34 2020 No.18549489 >>18549386 Sir buy kleros we will go 50x and we have memes Thank you for listening to my proposal

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 05:15:49 2020 No.18549566 >>18543719 thank you again fren. 0x7258081e9f7cfcde130cf2dff01e04328496203d

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 05:17:23 2020 No.18549580 >>18543608 Rakesh, NOBODY wants your q-trade HOBBY DEV coins during a pandemic. Stop this embarrassing Mumbai shilling, and get on the Unification pre-mainnet train with the rest of the smart anons.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 05:24:19 2020 No.18549628 >>18543719 0xe1888c1196ac323a1efdceeaa365bbfe397cf430 Really gotta get down to setting up a VPS node. Or should I just buy some more from qtrade?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 05:31:55 2020 No.18549684 File: 50 KB, 1080x522, 1587288652193.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] 5 days of mining 24 hours. Still a newbie

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 05:39:06 2020 No.18549752 Idena node is garbage. After few hrs of mining it goes offline and you get penalty (they will take away coins you mined). You supose to monitor the node 24/7, otherwise you will be making 0$ 101 scam

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 05:43:31 2020 No.18549789 Is someone giving out free DNA? Why is everyone dropping their addresses?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 05:47:28 2020 No.18549810 >>18549752 Good thing Idena is keeping the tech illiterate out

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 05:51:22 2020 No.18549838 >>18549752 Get a VPS.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 05:54:23 2020 No.18549863 Y'all can use big words like interspacial DeSin protocol but in the end it's still a crappy privacy coin with anon devs and the quirk is the captcha thing

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 06:06:09 2020 No.18549955 It is on VPS

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 07:04:26 2020 No.18550333 >>18549863 Its just a brand new idea bro, just like smart contracts also were a brand new idea

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 08:01:46 2020 No.18550710 >>18549580 Invest during fear is first thing you learn in crapto

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 08:04:06 2020 No.18550722 >>18545746 CRINGE

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 08:07:55 2020 No.18550750 >Read about Idena >Think its worth a shot >Can't get an invite Stop shilling it if people cant even get involved. You end up just talking to yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 09:01:45 2020 No.18551197 >>18547832 DNA is Idena’s coin

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 09:21:24 2020 No.18551378

>>18548364
A great, interesting, original and insightful thought. Yes you are maybe right. The first cryptoidentity and currency, for that matter, secured by unique humans. Great insight Anon. This alone tells a lot about the significance of this project.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 09:25:16 2020 No.18551429 >>18549161 You are welcome Anon. It's not the genetic DN acid but just the network's monetary instrument, it's coin. :)

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 10:19:45 2020 No.18551890

>>18550750
Everyone verified gets their invites after an epoch (next one is 22 april), if you want an invite you should ask for it then. Cause most people give all their invites away the first day for some reason.
Also we are pretty picky when it comes to inviting someone, I managed to get an invite by proving I am not a pajeet and making a coherent flip on the discord. If you prove your worth you will get an invite almost instantly.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 10:22:37 2020 No.18551919 >>18551890 I’ve only given my invites to white anons right after validation, too many chinks looking for one and they have the worst flips

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 10:37:17 2020 No.18552055 Setting up exactly like Chain Link did. Initial spike, then hovered in the .12-.15 range for a bit. Then it's on to .40, where it'll bounce around for another bit, and then up to the $4.00 range for a while, and then up, up, up.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 10:38:22 2020 No.18552069 >>18551919 Based, i hate chink flips. Immediately report them always.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 10:47:39 2020 No.18552156 >>18552055 Should atleast see $1 in a month maybe earlier

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 11:08:43 2020 No.18552408 >>18552156 Think I'll buy 10k with the money I made last night being a degenerate gambler.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 11:43:26 2020 No.18552771 0x2af3f80af31020713a38cb331060880aa5900ff8 based

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 11:49:10 2020 No.18552846 >>18552156 Unless qtrade becomes an established exchange price is going nowhere. So try to hold for a few months :)

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 11:57:37 2020 No.18552955 >>18552846 Good I hope it goes -80% from here so I can scoop some up at lower prices.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 11:59:06 2020 No.18552979 >>18552955 there is almost no volume so it's a good idea to set some low buy orders

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:01:26 2020 No.18553004 >>18543608 This much constant threads about a coin that is not even listed in coinmarketcap.com yet.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:13:01 2020 No.18553158 >>18553004 That’s how you know you’re early, newfag

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:21:59 2020 No.18553302 >>18552846 Should list on more exchanges dont worry

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:23:29 2020 No.18553332 >>18543719 0x9ae02f7f7643f686a003df4ae4998d1af45b11f9

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:25:43 2020 No.18553362 0x11Fd309041b22517B4c5f9141A401FE72c94DfB6

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:27:37 2020 No.18553382 >>18543719 0x47b3eeeb7da8c64a2e40c5a26a21d3571dd1e24a

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:29:18 2020 No.18553403 File: 30 KB, 600x341, o-rly-tck809.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>18553158

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:36:15 2020 No.18553488 Do i have to leave the idena client running all the time? it uses alot of internet.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:40:04 2020 No.18553535 >>18553488 yes to mine you do. get a vps for $5m someone in the discord will help if you don't know how

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:42:29 2020 No.18553569 >>18553535 If i turn off the client will i get penalized?

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:43:55 2020 No.18553591

>>18553488
To mine, yes. I have standard internet and I’ve not run into any issues with wifi becoming slow/using too much data etc. I’m sure if you have some shitty internet you might want to look into a vps to host your client though. A couple days of mining will pay off the monthly fee just from the VPS.

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:51:20 2020 No.18553702

>>18552156
why the hell would DNA go to $1 in less than a month? completely unrealistic, it's not gonna list on any new exchanges anytime soon, /biz/ already bought in and it's at least a couple months away from normie hype as this concept altogether is too novel and is still being tested, price/exchange listing is not in the focus of devs at the moment

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:53:41 2020 No.18553735 File: 151 KB, 800x600, Kchierath_zq44.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] the whole flip validation thing is fucking retarded. this is why projects like Pi will win and this shitcoin will disappear into obscurity

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 12:59:23 2020 No.18553807

>>18553735
We should have a civilized idena & pi discussion, to talk about the strengths and weaknesses of each project. I haven't looked too far into PI desu but am impressed at the amount of users it has onboarded. What real world problem it solves though I'm unsure.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 13:06:39 2020 No.18553892 >>18553735 Pi is centralized shit and has zero exchanges. Fuck off Ranjeesh

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 13:07:46 2020 No.18553904 >>18553892 Waaa, pi is centralised? Lol ok no need for discussion.

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 13:11:01 2020 No.18553938

>>18553807
>>18553735
My issue with Pi is it doesn’t seem to do anything. There’s never any technical discussion, it’s just Pi name spam, it’s not even being traded yet after a year. The mining is just pressing a button once a day and you have to do KYC just to be in it (basically one big data farm). It just seems so fucking retarded desu. Idena discussion has been top tier, Pi is just basically pajeet spam.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 13:14:45 2020 No.18553985 >>18553938 The best projects have hundreds / thousands of developers building on the open source code. Eth being the best example, monero also. Still very early days for Idena, but what we see so far is very encouraging.

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 13:18:42 2020 No.18554039

>>18553938
their nodes are coming out soon, you can download it now and apply to be one. pi did a test marketplace run and people exchanged real goods for pi. plus they have 5 million users now, millions of i'm sure that knew little or nothing about crypto before hand

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 14:11:35 2020 No.18554732 >>18553735 Kek pi is an utter shitcoin with no value. Once it hits an exchange it will literally be $0.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 14:20:03 2020 No.18554851 >>18553569 as long as the node is running on the vps, no

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 14:22:06 2020 No.18554880

>>18554851
you’ll get penalized if you turn on mining and close the client for more than an hour. it has to be running in the background. for just holding tokens and attending validations, no (although you should make sure you’re synchronized to the network at least 10-15 minutes before validation if you aren’t mining)

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 14:54:25 2020 No.18555310 the node is running on the vps all the time, you can shut everything down if you want. client is just the way you communicate with the node

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 14:57:51 2020 No.18555365 DNA is the new LINK, nothing more, nothing less

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 15:02:00 2020 No.18555426 >>18555365 Why is this project so good?

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 15:31:03 2020 No.18555862

>>18555426
Potential dentity layer on Eth/independent proof of human, truly decentralized (Sybil/AI resistant as well), new blockchain built from the ground up, new novel consensus method, easy mining (essentially "crypto UBI") and still valued extremely low. It's interesting on premise alone

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 15:32:45 2020 No.18555888 What are you guys price predictions for it?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 15:32:56 2020 No.18555895 >>18555862 Best place to start reading into this project?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 15:33:52 2020 No.18555911 >>18555895 https://idena.io/?view=technology# >>18555888 In my wildest dreams we reach top 100 in the next bullrun, so around 50x if we compare to dec 2017 prices?

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 15:34:40 2020 No.18555919 >>18555895 https://idena.io/?view=manifesto# is good for starters. Then read https://idena.io/IdenaPitchDeck.pdf The pitch deck is easy to absorb and succinct.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 15:38:12 2020 No.18555979 >>18555911 Even $5m mcap is where dead in the water scams sit at. Dragonchain is still sitting at $5m mcap and I'm willing to bet 99% of that volume is wash traded.

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 15:44:21 2020 No.18556085

Does anyone know what the power consumption on avg is to mine this thing all day? I have a spare Macbook pro I could plugin and run this but do you think that is the best way to go or should I get a VPS? Would I use just any regular VPS service? Thanks.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 15:46:03 2020 No.18556099 >>18556085 Just use a vps

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 15:46:19 2020 No.18556104 >>18556085 it's probably cheaper to run a vps (5usd/month subscription works) Most people in the discord use vultr, I read that some guy linked his github student to digital ocean and received 11 months worth of free vps

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 16:01:46 2020 No.18556310 >>18556104 Thank you, I actually just signed up for that and will be taking that same route as well. Much appreciated!

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 16:11:26 2020 No.18556430 >>18555911 It's a top 10 project. Dream bigger fren

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 16:16:18 2020 No.18556500 >>18556430 I will probably be shaken out by then

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 16:42:00 2020 No.18556803

>>18556500
Imagine selling the next ETH, LINK tier coin early. That's how big this can be fren. This isn't another ETH-BTC killer, a piece of shit China hustle or some pump and dump. This is something entirely new that not only grows the ecosystem potentially, but can help with the current global situation. Fuck the haters and pajeets.

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 17:01:59 2020 No.18557043 >>18556500 Def long term yes

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 17:11:59 2020 No.18557170 >>18555979 If Idena isn't situated next to LINK on CMC we have failed

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 18:02:54 2020 No.18557813 >>18543719 0xb73c43f88e74c59980634e9146844815ce884d66 Thank you fren

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 18:21:27 2020 No.18558053 >>18543719 0x1b75b95bad5b27cbbe65267e29f75effac412ddf nice

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 18:29:40 2020 No.18558176 >>18543719 0x016e881f1b60de916ac49a98664760a1c917f391 doubt you're still doing it but if you're monitoring the thread, here

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 18:41:54 2020 No.18558348

I have one invite to give out. I will give you an invite if you do the following.
>acknowledge that Idena will consume ~600GB of bandwidth per month
>acknowledge that validation is at 13:30 UTC and you will make it on time
>post a picture of your hand with a timestamp
>post a picture of a flip you have created, in the client

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 19:26:19 2020 No.18558974 >>18558348 I'm a chink american with infinite iq. Why no invite for me? Easy money

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 19:40:14 2020 No.18559164 >>18558974 Relax Anon. All I care about is if you can make a decent flip and commit to the times. And you aren't Indian.

Anonymous Sun Apr 19 20:01:47 2020 No.18559492 [DELETED]

File: 222 KB, 408x439, flip.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>18558348
not posting hand timestamp shit, sorry.
will validate up to and beyond human status.
VPS spun up with more than minimum specs.
ready for wednesday validation.
mellicott@mail.com

>>	Anonymous Sun Apr 19 20:03:06 2020 No.18559509 >>18559492 confusing flip soz

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/biz/ - Business & Finance