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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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18534452 No.18534452 [Reply] [Original]

What are the chances of the UK Banking Algorithms flagging this persons account for receiving a 45-50k sum into his current account? This person has invested 17k which was paid into a business account through several transactions over the course of a month. The investment has netted him 50k (33k profit).

1) Would bank flag it if he only receives his initial payment (17k) back?
2) is the 10k threshold a meme? Surely there's millions of 10k plus transactions daily
3) would it be smarter to receive the 50k spread between several bank accounts?
4) would a banking flag always result in HMRC being notified?
5) what is the option for this person to receive this money back?
6) any other information/knowledge biz?

If anyone with the right credentials and can answer - thankz biz

>> No.18534471

idk

>> No.18534475

>>18534452
100%

>> No.18534482

>>18534452
retard

>> No.18534495

Yes.

>> No.18534502

give this man a pint

>> No.18534546

>>18534452
>1) Would bank flag it if he only receives his initial payment (17k) back?
Yes. As long as transactions in this range are not done regularly anyways, you can assume the bank ist somehow flagging the account somehow.

>2) is the 10k threshold a meme? Surely there's millions of 10k plus transactions daily
Yes, it is a meme. It depends on your average or median or whatever metric, because otherwise it would hamper everyday business with accounts that acutally deal daily in such amounts.

>3) would it be smarter to receive the 50k spread between several bank accounts?
Yes and no. If they are fresh accounts, it would be definitely the case. If these are accounts dealing regularly with these numbers, it would not be relevant for the bank.

>4) would a banking flag always result in HMRC being notified?
Most likely, yes.

>5) what is the option for this person to receive this money back?
Use a bank account and pay taxes for your profits. Hit your local accountant to lower the amount payable as much as possible.

>6) any other information/knowledge biz?
With a couple of tens of thousand in profit, you should allways go the legal way and pay your taxes. Add at least three zeroes, before thinking you can dodge taxes and get away with it.

>> No.18534598

>>18534546
>Add at least three zeroes, before thinking you can dodge taxes and get away with it.
I would think that with more money it's even harder??

>> No.18534600

>>18534546

Would regularly cycling large amounts between savings/current accounts help reduce the algorithms from flagging accounts then?

Does the person have until april 21/22 to file taxes then if they decide to go this route? Doesn't that mean they banks wouldn't flag until this time is up to give them a chance of paying taxes?

Why would a larger amount be easier to avoid tax, wouldn't it be harder ?

>> No.18534614

>>18534452
yes, so give a notice to the bank and pay your taxes

>> No.18534625

>>18534598
>I would think that with more money it's even harder??
It does not hurt to employ a couple of experts, who shift revenues, profits, expenses etc. around the world to end up with the lowest payable number possible.

You know, people who do this for a living for a couple of decades.

>> No.18534655

>>18534600
>Would regularly cycling large amounts between savings/current accounts help reduce the algorithms from flagging accounts then?

Maybe.
Try it and tell us about the results, I dont know the algorithm. But you can expect that the people working on it might run tests on it, to prevent such things from happening. Circling money for no reason at all from bank to bank for no reason might raise a flag, it might let you get away with it.

But you try to play a game some people are watching over for years already. I am not so sure you can get away cheating as a beginner.

>> No.18534698

>>18534600
>Doesn't that mean they banks wouldn't flag until this time is up to give them a chance of paying taxes?

The flag of your account, the notification to local tax authorities and your notification to explain the transactions on your bank account are three different events. And you receiving a request to explain transactions is usually the last step in the whole process, where they already know what you are trying to pull.

>> No.18534804

>>18534698
UK slaves are allowed a "Tax Free Personal Allowance" of £12,500 a year.

This person has already paid £17k out of their account, surely receiving this £17k back should be free from any issues? What would happen if this person explained that this sum was purely a business loan?

With the £12,500 tax free exemption and the inital £17k outlay, one would assume a £50k return is too small and therefore not viable for HMRC to look into, considering that even if they were to investigate it and were to win, the amount they could recover would be nonviable.

>> No.18534838

>>18534804
>not viable for HMRC

Feel free to try it then. It is always nice to see someone getting to know the system by trying to play it.

>> No.18534862

>>18534838
One assumes you have knowledge and merely presented some variables to predict if HMRC would investigate, given the sums in questions.

So again, would receiving just the initial 17k sum alone be of any issue? From a tax perspective - is there any tax that needs to be paid on this sum?

>> No.18534907

>>18534452
Former banker here.
Make a transfer of 17k
Send the rest to two separate personal accounts by BACS. Purchase VAT free stored silver.

>> No.18534918

mate, i sold £90k btc, withdrew it to bank, then changed my mind and bought it back

no one did shit

>> No.18534923

>>18534862
>would receiving just the initial 17k sum alone be of any issue

Most likely.
How about you contact someone who does this for a living and pay him for his advice on how to handle the profits?

>> No.18534948

similar question:

if someone made a dex which executed trades partially over time

(e.g. make a trade now, it executes at initial price but only over next 10 years)

all handled by dex onchain, question is would the capital gains be definied as over 10 years or would it just be 1?

>> No.18534975

>>18534907
Why would a BACS payment be better ?

>Purchase VAT free stored silver.
Surely this wouldn't benefit the person as the currency coming in may be taxable so purchasing a CGT-exempt asset would be pointless as it has already missed a step?

>>18534923
Corona virus has made this very difficult, if not, impossible.

>> No.18535013

>>18534975
>Corona virus has made this very difficult, if not, impossible.

As long as you dont replace consulting a professional with 4chan, all will be fine, regardless if there is a pandemic or not.

>> No.18535017

Would the person be able to benefit by having their parents receive some of this sum and then having that paid into their account?

One assumes payments made from a family members bank account is less likely to encounter issues.

One also presumes that Physical Cash deposits and Overseas Payments are the primary cause of concern and criteria to cause flags which this isn't the case for.

>> No.18535250

>>18534475
^^^^^

>> No.18535513

Rare interesting thread

>> No.18535546

>>18534918
This. £50k is not a lot of money. Obviously just pay your taxes and you have nothing to worry about.

>> No.18535785

>>18535546
One would assume that, in the UK atleast, filing taxes for this small amount would mean eyes will be on said person who is now expected to file taxes every single year.

>> No.18536083

>>18535017
You do realize the 'swim' posting has no legal bearing and never has lmao

>> No.18536145

I work for a UK based pensions firm and my job revolves around vetting applicants for money laundering, bankruptcy etc and making risk assessments on them. It will make no difference spreading it across multiple bank accounts or leaving a complicated paper trail between your parents' accounts and yours. The System (banks, Experian, HMRC etc) will notice and you will be taxed accordingly. Just don't try and hide it. I should add it's pretty much all computerised, it's not like there is some nerd looking at your details trying to work out where you got the money. A report log will generate saying 'this poor guy has more money now, please allocate him a new tax code' and bingo, your tax code will change on the systems used by administrators at all the banks, financial services companies etc that you use. You can easily hide it by making shit tons of small transactions over several years but dude, just pay the capital gains tax on whatever you've made above the threshold. It's not worth the stress.

>> No.18536211

>>18536145
Interesting background.

Why would receiving this sum of money change a persons tax code if they are already earning good money from a salary?

Does this person have until the next tax year to file their report? As we are in the 2020/21 tax year, ending April 2021 which would mean they wouldn't have to send returns until the following January - 2022?

>> No.18536239

>>18536145
Would receiving just the 17k back be free of any issues? One cannot see how this would cause problems.

Hypothetically if person A sends X amount to person B, receiving back X should be exempt from any tax - correct or not?

>> No.18536419

>>18536211
>>18536239
yes you have almost a year to sort your taxes out, and I kinda assumed you were some dirt poor teenager who got lucky with crypto - if you are earning a high salary and the 50k isn't enough *income* to push you into the next tax bracket then no alarm bells would go off in that regard. Your only issue would be capital gains tax but that is much easier to avoid. Consider depositing it into gambling accounts and then making as close to certain bets as possible. Money won from betting is tax-free. So if you deposit say 1k at a time into some online bookies like Coral and William Hill and then bet on shit like 'Barcelona to win or draw against *insert shite team*) no one will go looking hard enough. That wouldn't work if we were talking millions of pounds, or probably a lot less, but for 50k, if you are on a middle-class salary, they won't notice

>> No.18536499

>>18536419
Providing some more details regarding this person here given your background and experience so you can maybe provide more accurate information:

£2k per month salary for the past 2 years. Approx £1-2k per month income via Paypal selling goods. Person has never been in overdraft. Has had a few loans opened and closed. Great Credit. Salary of 35k a year would mean the 50k income does push said person into the higher 40% income bracket - So have we spotted an issue here?

Is there any other way than the scenario you presented? Said person would likely want to avoid risking their profit depositing into an online banking account as they have never experienced this before. Is this relatively safe strategy?

>> No.18536523

>>18536419
It would seem like this strategy would take several months if deposits are in the region of a few thousand pounds. Any other strategies? Will HMRC be notified if the bank doesn't flag the account because one would assume not?

>> No.18536529

>>18536499
if you want the profit into your bank, just pay your taxes lmao

>> No.18536565

>>18536499
>>18536523
if you send up to 5k or so from crypto exchange or whatever > paypal > betting account > winning bet cash out > bank account they will 99.9% not ever look close enough to see where it originally came from. The only way that would happen is if you were being investigated or flagged for something unrelated.
Most big time drug dealers get caught because they committed some tiny minor fuck up which resulted in the police looking at their 'fingerprint' for the first time and then instantly seeing all the other shit that doesn't add up.

>> No.18536578

>>18536499
oh and in terms of income? they will give you a new tax code if that money ever lands in a bank account linked to your name. Avoiding income tax is almost impossible now they really cracked down hard on it about 4 years ago

>> No.18536632

>>18536565
How does one send GBP from a business account to crypto and then to paypal ? Would Paypal be another agency that this person would risk being flagged for again so doesn't that render this strategy ineffective?

>>18536578
Not sure what you mean "in terms of income"? I layed out roughly how much this persons account receives per month. Salary is already taxed before receiving it.

>> No.18536655

>>18536145
>I work for a UK based pensions firm and my job revolves around vetting applicants for money laundering, bankruptcy etc and making risk assessments on them. It will make no difference spreading it across multiple bank accounts or leaving a complicated paper trail between your parents' accounts and yours. The System (banks, Experian, HMRC etc) will notice and you will be taxed accordingly. Just don't try and hide it. I should add it's pretty much all computerised, it's not like there is some nerd looking at your details trying to work out where you got the money. A report log will generate saying 'this poor guy has more money now, please allocate him a new tax code' and bingo, your tax code will change on the systems used by administrators at all the banks, financial services companies etc that you use. You can easily hide it by making shit tons of small transactions over several years but dude, just pay the capital gains tax on whatever you've made above the threshold. It's not worth the stress.
bs i cashed out 90k 3 years ago in uk no problem

>> No.18536688

>>18536655
show tx :)

>> No.18536707

>>18534452
Phone an accountant.

>> No.18536723

>>18534452
What investment anon? Did you think about opening an ISA account and transfering there money from your investment? You can transfer 20k in this tax year. You can withdraw it tax free from your ISA.

>> No.18536746

>>18536723
I thought ISA were Tax Free on the Interest only?

Does this mean people can make £20k profit every year and receive it back tax free as long as they put it into an ISA?

Is the £12,500 tax free allowance in addition to this or not? £32,500 tax free is that correct?

>> No.18536889

>>18536746
It means you can put in ISA 20k a year(they decide how much you can put in) and interests made on it are tax free yes, but you can open stocks ISA and make tax free money on investmens and dividends. You can make 100k from them 20k and it still will be tax free. Check the gov website for more info about ISA.

>> No.18537006

>>18536746
No, you don't add up your ISA allowance to your personal allowance. If you're self employed you pay tax on whatever you will make profit above 12.5k.

>> No.18537115

>>>18536565
>How does one send GBP from a business account to crypto and then to paypal ?
>>18536632

Yeah I don't think this is possible yet, although feel free to correct me anons because I'd be interested in this myself

It will definitely be possible with something like linkpal once smart contracts are more embedded

Also re transfers from PayPal, you can open a financial spreadbet account with IG and fund it via PayPal rather than sports betting and even invest in stuff without it touching your bank account

>> No.18537331

>>18534452
Share the investment idea buddy, please. Thanks

>> No.18537360

>>18536565
Re-read this and after thinking about it - seems like the worst way to handle this. This is literally money laundering and is obvious. Not a good idea at all.

>> No.18537382

>>18536889
The thread isn't about how to make tax free money its how to return money whilst avoiding tax. ISA cannot be used in this scenario as your strategy involves having money already existing within the ISA that's made gains from S&S ISA.

>> No.18537430

>>18537382
You can transfer your initial investment back. That was your money and it was already taxed. If you have made 33k profit just buy crypto with it on coinbase and order coinbase card - pay with it or withdraw money. Otherwise you gonna have to pay capital tax on them sweet gains.

>> No.18538471

>>18536723
i always wonder - if you make £20k profit elsewhere then realise the gain and move it to the isa, is it taxable

>> No.18538662

>>18538471
yes

>> No.18538703

Law-anon here. Alright faggots let's get to the bottom of this and sift out the inevitable bullshit answers.

OP -when you say this person invested into a business account, was this a LTD or a sole trader account. This matters.

Also are we talking about cashing out crypto?

>> No.18538869

>>18538703
Sup Law-anon

Said person says it is a business ltd account.

They are not cashing out crypto gains it is a business venture unrelated to crypto. Money was paid in via another ltd well known company. no issues on that side.

>> No.18538938
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18538938

>>18538662

>> No.18538975

>>18538938
fuck that fat russian scammer, Sirgay betrayed you all.
Cash out into the ISA scam before the link scam pops

>> No.18539096

>>18537430
>order coinbase card - pay with it or withdraw money.

coinbase bends over backwards for any agency that asks.

>> No.18539140

Let's say someone is living in the UK but is from a different EU country. This person is doing all his buying and selling through his home country bank and not his UK bank, he regularly transfers money from the foreign bank to the UK bank. He doesn't have to pay any tax in his home country because he's lived in the UK for long enough. Is there any way HMRC can find out about this when the only paper trail is a regular transfer from an EU country bank.

Sorry for hijacking the thread a bit

>> No.18539155

>>18534452
why don't you split those 17k to get back into several smaller payments

>> No.18539520

>>18534452
If live in the UK now but will be living in South Korea with an SK bank account during the time I plan to cash out £100k+ worth. If the money was left in KRW am I safu.

>> No.18539552

>>18538662
but cashed out direct to ISA account? Not through an intermediate bank?

>> No.18540468

bump

>> No.18541366

>>18539155
The person in question seems to think that receiving the 17k back in partial sums is more likely to cause a flag. They also believe as they have sent 17k, albeit in several smaller payments, that they will not face a problem receiving the 17k back as a lump sum because the total transactions in and out match. What are your thoughts?