Do you not agree with this statement?

[Anonymous No.18384846]

>Labor is entitled to all it creates

If you work, and your labor produces a certain amount of value, do you not believe yourself entitled to that value? Do you not find it wrong that your labor produces a “surplus value” that you do not get? Do you think it’s OK that there is a capitalist class that thrives on the backs of the workingman? Sucking out all the value of his labor creates and leaving him little? If you think this is OK, then you just might be a cuck.

>Spend all day working in a factory
>Your labor produces $1,000
>You get 200
>The capitalist gets 800
>That 800 is surplus value

The answer is simple. Remove the middleman and the worker will receive the full produce of the fruits of his labor.

Abolish private property. Abolish capitalism.

[Anonymous No.18384867]

>>18384846
You do not need authoritarian socialism to do this.

Syndicalism is the answer. Remove the capitalist class and let the workers own the means of production directly. Eliminating most surplus value, so that every worker gets his labor value returned to him.

[Anonymous No.18384881]

>>18384846
One is based on a contract you have with another agency. Did you agree to work for $10 an hour even though you're worth $20? Your fault.

The other is based on the military force because the governors and senators need to make a paycheck.

[Anonymous No.18384897]

>>18384846
>Labor is entitled to all it creates
no risk and reward always goes hand in hand if reward would exceed the proportional risk then the market would remove this inefficiency by flooding into that opportunity.

the capitalist risks his capital on his venture, his money, the laborer only risks a tiny amount of his time. rewards are proportional.

[Anonymous No.18384903]

>>18384846
your work is worth whatever you're willing to accept as wages

say if I buy something from your, am I stealing from you when I sell it at a higher price? are you entitled to the difference between prices?

[Anonymous No.18384916]

>>18384897
also nothing stops workers to be shareholders and share the risk and burden of running the corporation as well as the rewards.... nothing.

[Anonymous No.18384918]

>>18384846
People are reading No More Hunger by William Dudley Pelley.

[Anonymous No.18384922]

>>18384881
>>18384903
>You accepted the wages goy
>Did you agree to work for $10 an hour even though you're worth $20? Your fault.
It doesn’t matter what you agree to. The capitalist class literally cannot exist without exploiting surplus value. You will not find a job if you do not agree to this basic law of economic capitalism.

Stop thinking about this as if we have to work within the capitalist system. The class that creates these contracts does not have to exist.

[Anonymous No.18384936]

>>18384867
>let the workers own the means of production directly
this has been tried and been a spectacular failure.

[Anonymous No.18384945]

>>18384867
and today of course Mondragon is the powerhouse of the world economy

[Anonymous No.18384944]

>>18384897
>MUH risk and reward
YES, right now, the capitalist does take this risk. But if the capitalist class was liquidated and all the means of production were owned by the workers, then that risk would just fall upon the workers instead. And it would be their price for removing surplus value.

This changes nothing.

[Anonymous No.18384959]

>>18384922
>surplus value
this shit is the most retarded thing ever. whoever made this up never tried investing his money.

[Anonymous No.18384966]

>>18384846
In 2020, I can buy stock and real estate from my phone. Capitalism has been mostly democratized via technology such that anyone who labors can participate. The Marxist argument only applies to the indigent and lame who shitpost about ableism on Reddit.

[Anonymous No.18384969]

>>18384944
they can do that as it is. nothing is stopping a bunch of workers to stat their own corporation and be their own investors.

[Anonymous No.18384970]

>>18384846
Where's the colour for risk taken?

[Anonymous No.18384986]

>>18384867
>Remove the capitalist class and let the workers own the means of production directly.

This begs the question. Why can't workers band together to form their own business? By doing that they would be owning the means of production directly.

[Anonymous No.18384991]

>>18384867
>You do not need authoritarian socialism to do this
based retard. all non-capitalist anarchists are my friends because their systems, without a central authority to control it, will naturally evolve into a free market ancap system

[Anonymous No.18385001]

>>18384846
"Surplus value" isn't surplus - it's a product of the capital invested in the factory.

A lumberjack who works all day can cut down one tree with his bare hands, ten trees with an axe, and a hundred trees with a chainsaw. What is the value of his labor? What is the value of a chainsaw?

[Anonymous No.18385011]

>>18384846
>you can get more wealth by making it impossible to own wealth

socialists are the dumbest people in existence, they are begging to be made slaves

[Anonymous No.18385012]

>>18384922
>It doesn’t matter what you agree to
It matters to me what I agree to very much. I did not agree to pay fucking tax

[Anonymous No.18385023]

>>18384986
A better and more fitting question in the era of the “gig” economy is what if every worker was no longer a worker but an independent contractor? A corporate, capitalist entity unto themselves!

[Anonymous No.18385025]

Bullshit. Without the capital invested and the risk taken by the capitalist, you would produce any value at all, because all the input except labor was provided by him. If you don't provide the whole of the input, why would get the whole of the output?

[Anonymous No.18385039]

>>18384846
>implying my income is just in salary
Lmfao. It’s called investments you fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.18385046]

>>18384969
Yes, but I want it on a national level.

>>18384986
They can, and it has been done. I want it to be the norm.

>>18384991
>all non-capitalist anarchists are my friends because their systems, without a central authority to control it, naturally evolve into a free market ancap system

Well first of all, I’m not an anarchist. But since you are, please explain: Private ownership of businesses cannot be ensured without a state to protect the capitalists property. This is why ancaps love Pinochet so much. Please explain how without a state, a warlord won’t just prop up and start fucking with you and collecting taxes. That’s what happens in Somalia.

[Anonymous No.18385057]

Risk taking and leadership have to be rewarded or no one would do it. Fundamentally built into human psychology

[Anonymous No.18385079]

>>18384846

1. Who built the factory?
1A. Who got the land upon which the factory is built?
2. Who got the materials to make the factory?
3. Who got the raw materials to make the products at the factory?
4. Who is responsible for selling the products made at the factory?

[Anonymous No.18385088]

[Anonymous No.18385093]

>>18384922
>The capitalist class literally cannot exist without exploiting surplus value.
You aren't smart enough to make the office or factory that you work in, you wouldn't be earning jack shit without mr piggy above you.

[Anonymous No.18385095]

>>18385046
>businesses cannot be ensured without a state to protect the capitalists property.
Guns. Private security

[Anonymous No.18385103]

>>18385046
>>18384991
Because you see, a state is nothing more than whichever group has a monopoly on violence. And whoever has that monopoly is going to collect taxes to further fund their interests. Violence is just another business. Using this basic law, it could even be one of your capitalist enterprises that grows itself into a state.

[Anonymous No.18385114]

>>18384846
bait thread

[Anonymous No.18385121]

>>18385088
All of that could be done by the workers.

[Anonymous No.18385128]

>>18384944
You don't have to remove the capitalist class, you can literally go and start a coop with your worker friends, no one stops you from doing that, and there are a lot of coops in existence within capitalist systems. The problem with coops is that it requires all worker to vote and be actively involved in the decision making. They're a nightmare to run and extremely inefficient. To add up to that, most workers just want to do their work, get a salary and go home. They don't want to have to spend extra hours going on meetings and participate in extra shit necessary to keep a company afloat

[Anonymous No.18385132]

>>18385088
based

[Anonymous No.18385144]

>>18385121
Literally nobody is stopping them from doing so retard

[Anonymous No.18385150]

>>18385121
could it though? you think every worker or a collective of workers has the ability to run things efficiently? especially when there is very little benefit (can’t own shit) in doing so? planned economies, like you, are spectacular failures.

[Anonymous No.18385157]

>>18385046
>I want it on a national level
in an efficient market the only way you can have middle men that don't add value and can't be cut out is by state mandate as in mandate of violence.

the only way to have middle men that don't add value is your way.

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18385188]

>>18385150
>muh planned economy
It sounds like you don’t know what that means, because this would be a market economy.

>>18385157
>the only way to have middle men that don't add value is your way.
Yes. By the workers, for the workers.

[Anonymous No.18385195]

>>18385046
>>18385103
monopolies are prevented by an intelligent population that simply chooses not to give business to any entity that is threatening to become a scary monopoly boogeyman. without a state, large companies cannot rig the game in their favor, so from there the free market competition will tear them apart

[Anonymous No.18385225]

>>18385095
>Raytheon moves into your neighborhood
Hope you bought the premium security package

[Anonymous No.18385231]

>>18384846
yeh no doubt. but you know what OP, I can't be fucked having to deal with all the surplus value I create. I cbf having to turn it into fiat, i cbf having to navigate any of that shit. I enjoy getting my wage on and getting paid and giving some to the govt so I got water and electricity and health care and my shit goes the fuck away from me when I flush. And i have not a care in the world.

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18385243]

>>18385195
A state is just a monopoly on violence. Do I need to spell it out for you? They will be forced to buy from that monopoly, because they send armed guards outside of other peoples businesses to prevent customers from going in.

This is what will happen in an anarcho-capitalist world. Something, WILL eventually get a monopoly on violence. And when that happens, it’s basically a state.

[Anonymous No.18385254]

>>18385195
>monopolies are prevented by an intelligent population that simply chooses not to give business to any entity that is threatening to become a scary monopoly boogeyman
Good thing nobody buys from China

[Anonymous No.18385267]

>>18384846

What about labour created by previous generations? The effort out by others before us that has been building up by thousands of years. The tools used by your ancestors to create the tools we have today. Who gets the the profit of that labour?

>inb4 what is the wealth nations?

[Anonymous No.18385277]

>>18385188
>market economy
>no private property

[Anonymous No.18385286]

>>18385267

*wealth of nations, my bad

[Anonymous No.18385289]

>>18385188
no, the only way to add middlemen that only take profit and don't add value is by violence.

which is the monopoly of the state in modern society.

the only possible way to add inefficiency to the market is by an oppressive regime.

which is why communism fails every single time it's tried.

[Anonymous No.18385304]

>>18385243

[Anonymous No.18385333]

>>18385304
>people, like, won't take over your property dude
>christ, haven't you heard of the NAP???

[Anonymous No.18385341]

Honestly we just need to return to the gold standard and tell the jews to fuck off

[Anonymous No.18385345]

>>18385188
>By the workers, for the workers
also consider this... if the workers own the means of production and partake rewards in proportion to their work how that would look for a new employee?

>be fresh out of high school
>try to take a job at commiecopr
>they say you can't work there unless you buy at least 15 shares of the company
>you don't get salary, you get dividends of profit if there is any in tough years you work for free
>15 shares is $500k on the market because nobody is really looking to sell his share right now

fucking hilarious...

[Anonymous No.18385349]

>>18384846
We tried this before and it didn't end well.
Back to r/leftypol

[Anonymous No.18385356]

>>18385243
>A state is just a monopoly on violence
No shit. Monopolies can only be prevented by a culture that embraces nap. Your shit idea comes with a monopoly build in from the start

[Anonymous No.18385357]

>>18385345
>they say you can't work there unless you buy at least 15 shares of the company
>buy
You're braindead

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18385365]

>>18385267
All capitalist businesses are built upon the exploitation of surplus value. It is not legitimate just because it was formed by generations. Generational wealth had to come from somewhere. I make no differentiation from the grocery store down the street and giant corporations like Walmart.

They will be redistributed into the hands of the workers to form a collective.

>>18385304
>>18385333
>I will pay guards and private security to protect my property instead of using a state
....if you’re able to buy people with guns to protect your property, what’s stopping you from buying people with guns to attack other peoples property?

Anarcho-Capitalism is a hypocritical mess.

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18385379]

>>18385356
>Monopolies can only be prevented by a culture that embraces nap.
Is this culture just going to fall out of the fucking sky!?!? You’re no better than a hippy claiming everybody can just get along maaaann.

[Anonymous No.18385383]

>>18385365
>if you’re able to buy people with guns to protect your property, what’s stopping you from buying people with guns to attack other peoples property?
bro, the NAP dude. If everyone would just chill out and enjoy their 14 child wives then we won't have feudalism. You obviously don't understand economics.

[Anonymous No.18385384]

>>18385357
it's the means of production anon you don't get that for free.

[Anonymous No.18385398]

>>18384846
Say it was like this:


>Spend all day working in a factory
>Your labor produces $1,000
>You get 800
>The capitalist gets 200
>That 200 is surplus value

Would you still be bitching? No. Such a scenario could exist, but it doesn't, so the problem isn't capitalism, but the oyveybergs and their shabbygoys at the top colluding to drive down the wages of white men.

[Anonymous No.18385412]

In a world where everyone agrees to the NAP, the one person who uses violence becomes a god. Its an unstable equilibrium, hence will never effectively exist. Monopoly of violence is a stable equilibrium, and while flawed its hard to argue that there was a better, more just and fair time to have lived than now.

[Anonymous No.18385413]

>>18385384
Bro I'm trying to apply for a cashier opening, but I can't afford a cash register.
What do I do?

[Anonymous No.18385419]

>>18385365
I agree, your strawman version of anarcho-capitalism where everybody is a bloodthirsty savage who wants to instantly become a warlord and kill people, is a mess. kind of like being a non-capitalist anarchist

[Anonymous No.18385456]

>>18384846
No labor is not entitled to all it creates.
>I make a tool
>You see the tool and say it could increase the efficiency of your daily work by 10%
>I say okay you can use it, but only if I get half the increase in output
>you say okay

'Surplus value' is a fucking myth for retards who think the 'means of production' just poof into existence.

[Anonymous No.18385467]

>>18385365
>They will be redistributed into the hands of the workers to form a collective.
By whom? A tyrannical monopoly?

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18385469]

>>18385413
A syndicalist economy would very much reduce surplus value, but I’m not saying the worker would get everything. There still needs to be some surplus for equipment and shit.

>>18385398
Boy, that would be a dream wouldn’t it? But that’s how it would probably look in a syndicalist economy. Let’s say that 200 in surplus would go to equipment. Still a big jump from capitalism, you can’t get the surplus down to 0 but it’s looking a LOT better.

>>18385419
>your strawman version of anarcho-capitalism where everybody is a bloodthirsty savage who wants to instantly become a warlord and kill people, is a mess.

>everyone
It only takes one person to shit up a thread anon. And it’s not a strawman, I don’t think you know what that means. Anarcho-Capitalism is a theoretical idea. I just put forth a theory on how it would all fuck up, and I do believe my theory is correct. You on the other hand, have not debunked that theory.

[Anonymous No.18385480]

>>18385379
>everybody can just get along maaaann.
so communism?

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18385481]

>>18385456
And why couldn’t that equipment just be owned by the collective? All you’re doing is describing how it works under capitalism. Think outside the box.

[Anonymous No.18385499]

>>18385413
yes indeed what do you do... you can't afford the share of mortgage payment the electricity costs the cleaning products and every other 1000 expense it takes to make a mart work... meanwhile the company is not profitable so you have to loan to it because you are not getting shit.

if only... if only there was a magical guy with a lot of money time and patience that could finance these rough beginnings and you could have stable reliable cash flow and didn't had to risk your personal belongings on your employment...

[Anonymous No.18385502]

>>18385481
Too bad, the only thing your or the collective is getting for free is my dick.

[Anonymous No.18385510]

>>18385469
damn, I can't debunk your hypothetical theory on the theoretical idea of anarcho capitalism! (I don't think you know what that means)

[Anonymous No.18385529]

>>18384922
>The capitalist class literally cannot exist without exploiting surplus value
the working class, unable to create anything of value by itself, cannot exist without a job provided by the moneyed class.

[Anonymous No.18385533]

>>18385365
What about the workers who built the factory?
What about the raw materials you are using (steel, stone, etc?)
What about the machines you are using at the factory?
How would you account all of that in your system when it comes to split all the revenue?
Would it be split through all of these parties? If not wouldn't you say you are explointing the "surplus of value" of all the workers that came before you, and allow for your work to exist?
How would you solve this within your system?

[Anonymous No.18385544]

>>18385195
>intelligent population
Im no commie but you have a problem there mr. ancap

[Anonymous No.18385551]

>>18385481
Conceptually, I'm with you. I like the idea of syndicalism. However, it's sort of 'pie in the sky' like ending world hunger, and free ponies for everyone.

So I'm stuck focusing my attentions and efforts to how to best eek out an existence under capitalism. Best of luck to you, Syndicate Anon.

[Anonymous No.18385553]

>>18385481
>And why couldn’t that equipment just be owned by the collective?
Who would take care of it? Who would be responsible for it?

[Anonymous No.18385563]

>>18385469
>A syndicalist economy would very much reduce surplus value
No progress.
>There still needs to be some surplus for equipment and shit.
Who would manage it and how?

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18385582]

>>18385533
>What about the workers who built the factory?
What about them? Did they go somewhere?
>What about the raw materials you are using (steel, stone, etc?)
Owned by the collective of workers.
>What about the machines you are using at the factory?
The collective
>How would you account all of that in your system when it comes to split all the revenue?
See here>>18385469 A syndicalist economy would very much reduce surplus value, but I’m not saying the worker would get everything. There still needs to be some surplus for equipment and shit.

The difference is that before, it was 800 in surplus. Now it’s only 200.>>18385398

It’s a big difference.

[Anonymous No.18385590]

>>18385243
>But a monopoly on violence someone would surely create a monopoly on violence.

I see people make this stupid argument all the time and it makes no sense. It's just circular reasoning and self-defeating.

There are many ways an anarchist society could provide law and order through voluntary and contractual means.

[Anonymous No.18385596]

>>18385544
yeah, ancapland won't be able to exist without a significant population of rational, intelligent people who use their power as individuals to self-regulate and be responsible, creating no need for a state. I freely admit this unlike a lot of believers in other radical ideologies who think they can start a le epic revolution, behead a few people, and their magical fantasyland will become reality

[Anonymous No.18385600]

>>18385499
>you can't afford the share of mortgage payment the electricity costs the cleaning products and every other 1000 expense it takes to make a mart work
Hmm that's a good point. I will talk to the 100,000 the workers employed by the company and see if we can find the funds

[Anonymous No.18385664]

>>18385600
>I will talk to the 100,000 the workers employed by the company and see if we can find the funds
What if a lot of them wanna spend their money on other shit? How do you agree what to do with the funds if you get any?

[Anonymous No.18385674]

>>18384846
>Labor is entitled to all it creates

If you work, and your labor produces a certain amount of value, do you not believe yourself entitled to that value? Do you not find it wrong that your labor produces a “surplus value” that you do not get? Do you think it’s OK that there is a bureaucratic class that thrives on the backs of the workingman? Sucking out all the value of his labor creates and leaving him little? If you think this is OK, then you just might be a cuck.

>Spend all day working in a factory
>Your labor produces $300
>You get 200
>The capitalist gets 100
>That 100 is surplus value
>Then you get taxed $77
>and the capitalist gets taxed on the $50 that goes to the federal government who then squanders both you and your employers wealth on welfare for niggers

The answer is simple. Remove the Government and the worker will receive full compensation of the fruits of his labor.

Abolish Government regulation. Abolish the Federal reserve.

[Anonymous No.18385682]

>>18385664
>What if a lot of them wanna spend their money on other shit?
Then they can just not use the equipment
>How do you agree what to do with the funds if you get any?
democracy

[Anonymous No.18385717]

>>18385582
That sounds like a nightmare to manage anon. It can work, but not only it is extremely inefficient but also incredibly wasteful. There's a reason why pretty much all communist/socialist countries, eventually shifted from central planning to more liberated market: they simply run better and waste less resources. And the countries that decided to stick with central planning aren't doing all that well (ie North Korea).

[Anonymous No.18385718]

>>18385682
>Then they can just not use the equipment
But I thought there's no private property?
>democracy
Kek

[Anonymous No.18385724]

>>18384846
>Work for a company and learn a valuable skill
>see that your managers / boss are taking 80% of your “value”
>Start your own business and collect all your own value
It’s really that simple anon. No one is forcing you to work for anyone. No one is stopping you from starting your own business. And before “muh seed money” the government is practically giving money away for people to start businesses.

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18385725]

>>18385596
>ancapland won't be able to exist without a significant population of rational, intelligent people who use their power as individuals to self-regulate and be responsible, creating no need for a state
Are these people just going to fall out of the fucking sky!?!? Seeking power is human nature. No metaphysical “nap” is going to stop this. And it doesn’t matter if a “significant portion” of the population follows this nap (that’s literally not enforced by anyone because there is no state) because all it takes is one person.

[Anonymous No.18385752]

>>18385121
Yes, so quit McDonalds and form your own restaurant.

Oh wait, that requires risk. Oops!

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18385769]

>>18385724
But then I would be the one exploiting surplus value. That would be an example of being corrupted by the thing you hate. Why are you evil?

>I finally don’t have to be a wagie anymore
>I achieved this by becoming the person I used to hate

[Anonymous No.18385784]

>>18384846
Communistards always talk of seizing the means of production but never CREATING the means of production.

[Anonymous No.18385791]

>>18384991
To save from an assessment of "Retard", you need to preface ancap ramblings with "this only works for Whites and maybe Brahman Indians".

If you try to have ancap anything with niggers, you immediately get killed. Do you love Somalia?

[Anonymous No.18385794]

>>18385769
If would be your company you would be able to run it how you like. There are no laws against paying people more / giving equity. Tons of tech companies do it.

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18385842]

>>18385794
>betray your own ideals
It doesn’t make it better if I pay them a bit more than all the other capitalists. I’m still leeching on wage labor and surplus value. With the things that I know now, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.

[Anonymous No.18385862]

>>18385725
but anon, your retarded ideology requires even more rational, intelligent people to work and maintain itself than mine does. is your pic related to this perhaps?

>>18385791
yeah, I already covered that >>18385596

[Anonymous No.18385870]

>>18385596
You realize you're suffering the same problem as the ancap. Asking people not to be people. Capitalism is not perfect but it harnesses greed and turns it into productivity. You're asking people to be productive but also selfless. Not gonna happen unless an all-powerful state appears to force everyone to do it, then benevolently relinquishes their power once utopia is achieved.

Honest question, is this different from communism besides the name?

[Anonymous No.18385875]

>>18385842
>I’m still leeching on wage labor and surplus value
So give them equity

[Anonymous No.18385877]

>>18385842
Then you have no clue how equity and profit sharing works then lmao it is literally “muh means of production”. Keep grandstanding and complaining though.

[Anonymous No.18385888]

>>18385842
How are you leeching from them, you would be managing the company, and making sure everything runs smooth. That is work. Unless you think the only valid form of work is physical labour, in which case you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.18385960]

>>18384944
>the capitalist does take this risk.
I love this. I picutre Elon Musk and Bill gates, who were born millionaires by the way, risking their life every day going at their offices.

[Anonymous No.18385962]

>>18384846
What about unprofitable companies? Programmers at Uber get paid no matter what income or even revenue is. Want surplus? Then start working on your own and learn to sell, you fucking lazy ass commie.

[Anonymous No.18385980]

>>18384867
Why don't you just start your own syndication this way and take over the economy? It's a bulletproof plan, since syndicalism is a superior system, right? The capitalistic system can't compete.

What is stopping you?

And I seriously encourage you to try. I will join you when you get your syndication running.

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18386001]

>>18385875
>>18385877
>>18385888
Rather live in voluntary poverty than be some soulless kike who betrays his ideals at the drop of a shekel.

[Anonymous No.18386002]

>>18384969
It's called a cooperative, but OP is too fucking retarded to engage in this debate.

[Anonymous No.18386003]

>>18384846
The business structures created by the founder and managers optimizes the return on labor. Your labor produces many times the value within the company as it would alone. The founders and managers create the system, and many workers are also owners. The government does nothing but leech your money, and create limiting regulations and laws. The government provides nothing, the company and entrepreneurs enable you to work and produce optimal value. You are retarded like every other commie. There are no handouts for you here. Go the fuck back.

[Anonymous No.18386005]

>>18385960
Survivorship bias. You don’t hear about the guys who lose it all and turn into work-a-day jack offs.

[Anonymous No.18386013]

>>18385960
Musk did come pretty fucking close to losing everything

[Anonymous No.18386078]

>>18386001
>Rather live in voluntary poverty
Rather actually leech and be a burden instead of contributing value

[Anonymous No.18386100]

>>18386002
true he still hasn't responded to my previous post >>18385128 he just wants to preach his imaginary ideology

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18386198]

>>18385717
>There's a reason why pretty much all communist/socialist countries, eventually shifted from central planning to more liberated market: they simply run better and waste less resources. And the countries that decided to stick with central planning aren't doing all that well (ie North Korea).
You’re thinking of authoritarian socialism like Marxism-Leninism or Maoism. Those have replaced private property with state ownership (which I agree is inefficient) but syndicalism is more libertarian than authoritarian. It replaces private property with direct ownership by the workers.

[Syndicate Anon !AB5fTSvpY6 No.18386222]

>>18386198
In syndicalism, there is still a free market (I.e. businesses competing with each other to create the most innovation possible) whereas state socialism ruins that with bureaucracy. Also, syndicalism will actually remove most surplus value and allow each worker to make more of his labor back, while all authoritarian socialism does is replace the capitalist with a government official. It’s state capitalism.

[Anonymous No.18386284]

>>18386198
>It replaces private property with direct ownership by the workers
What exactly would be the difference? Workers can own property in capitalism, too

[Anonymous No.18386285]

>>18384846
Value is subjective. Whatever you get paid is the value of your labor. Workers get paid less because they do not have the ingenuity or skill to maintain complex operations from a high level. They can screw on parts and assemble things. That's it. Which is why their labor is worth less. Anyone can do those things, and therefore the market is saturated with this type of labor, so it demands a low price. Also kys commie retard.

[Anonymous No.18386298]

>>18384846
What if I build the property with my labor faggot

[Anonymous No.18386493]

>>18384846
Theres no surplus in an exchange.
You also spend time/energy in building things.

[Anonymous No.18386509]

>>18386013
I'm sure he was very close to sleep under a bridge.
https://www.breitbart.com/local/2017/09/09/billionaire-elon-musks-mother-is-fashions-new-it-model-at-69-years-old/

[Anonymous No.18386536]

>>18386285
>Workers get paid less because they do not have the ingenuity or skill to maintain complex operations from a high level.
Or maybe they don't have the Capital?

[Anonymous No.18386604]

>>18384846
If your employee provide nothing and just take from your labour, then you can just work alone or you can create your own company where all profit would be in the hand of the labourers. If you are right your model is going to propagate itself as it is more efficient.

But your model is shit and any attempt of correction from you is just a reinvention of capitalism, except worse

[Anonymous No.18386909]

>>18385596
Who is going to be doing the grunt work if your society is full of intelligent people?

[Anonymous No.18386919]

>>18386536
Banks are literally giving money away.

[Anonymous No.18386949]

Use something simple that everyone understands. A McDonalds. This is a good example because it's clear that what makes the burger is not just a worker. A McDonalds worker cannot shit out Cheese burgers. They are simply a small cog in a production line. The building, the Equipment, the running cost, the raw food materials, the shipping involved to get that stuff there and fitted etc etc. This is how a Capitalist rearranges capital goods to produce value. The worker actually adds a lot of cost when really they are no more essential than the fryers. They are simply a cog in a set up the Owner has set up. This to varying degrees is how all business works. The market actually if left alone will quickly work out the value of the worker in a company. McDonalds workers are unskilled and can be replaced easily. A trained neurosurgeon cannot. This is the only reason some jobs are paid more than others. Simply how much value and importance you have to a business.