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18211553 No.18211553 [Reply] [Original]

Can you actually make money playing poker or is it just a scam?

>> No.18211577

>>18211553
But how much did you lose?

>> No.18211576

>>18211553
Don’t try you’re obviously too retarded

>> No.18211579

>>18211553
Yeah you can make money. You can't make as much money as in the stock market though. Also when you play the decisions are not as easy as in the stock market. It's a game about deception in the end, so if you are good at bluffing and risking huge stacks of money on lies then yes you can make money.

>> No.18211596

>>18211553
It’s easier to win at small stake tables but you can’t win as much. Higher stakes is mostly bluffs and is sketchy

>> No.18211599

you have 1/6 chance of winning so if you win 1/5 times youre good

>> No.18211607

>>18211553
A very, very, very small handful of people are good enough at the mental game to make a living off it. Most think they can, and don't. You're the latter.
Go watch Rounders, with Matt Damon. You'll never be Matt Damon, you'll be the tourists he takes in Atlantic City.

>> No.18211609

>>18211553
You missed the boat by about 2 decades

>> No.18211657

>>18211579
It's about 5% that and 95% maths and discipline

>> No.18211701

If you're playing against people worse at it than you, you'll definitely make money in the long run.

>> No.18211726

>>18211553
It's legitimately a better/more reliable source of income than day trading U.S. equities. Less rigged than U.S. markets overall if you're playing in official circles, but harder than trading some foreign markets like the ASX for example which is a much "cleaner" market than the U.S.

Poker (and trading) is (are) very low probability of success, high reward, so if you don't commit enormous capital to trying them out, it can't hurt to try, but ultimately there are way better things you could do with your time that are higher probability of success although most likely less overall potential reward.

>> No.18212048

>>18211553
If you want to make money learn a valuable skill that is useful to other people and start a business.

Poker can be a fun way to make and lose some money but bankroll management is key and you dont want that to be your only source of income and get the ego wrapped up in how well you are playing.
If you're dead set on trying it out before you come to the conclusion I mentioned, read the mental game of poker, supersystem, and the theory of poker.

I sometimes play but when I do its gonna be live on the weekends late at night when people are drunk and tired and even then I table hop around after reading the people a bit.

>> No.18212098

Grind microstakes first and track your performance for a while to see if you actually enjoy the game and are good enough to make money, otherwise you're just gonna be a get rich quick degen

>> No.18212151

>>18211607
Kek, Damon ist the prototype of a loser wannabe in that movie. His jewish friend is the only person you could learn something from regarding poker.

>> No.18212189
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18212189

>>18211553

>> No.18212193

>>18212151
LOL, you're exactly the kind of try hard who gets his ass handed to him in Vegas and Atlantic City. Go on. Go lose your money. I triple dog dare you.

>> No.18212225

>>18211657
Poker has fuck all to do with math.

>> No.18212297

>>18212225
game theory and probabilities are maths

>> No.18212299

>>18212225
You're actually retarded

>> No.18212337

>>18211553
Yes I do this.

You'll probably fail cause you're trash and have no skill and probably a nit faggot.

>> No.18212406

>>18212225
artificial intelligence poker player which runs solely sophisticated mathematical algorhythms has beaten the best poker players in the world

>> No.18212480

>>18212225
You're retarded.

>> No.18212760
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18212760

>>18211553
I'm an online pro. I'm up close to $1MM over the past 5 years. Winnings are tax free in my country. Pic related is my results for march (a pretty typical month). The blue line is my actual result, the orange line is what I'm supposed to have won adjusted for all in luck (i've been pretty unlucky this month).
Most people don't have what it takes to make it in poker. You have to be:
> high IQ
> decent at math, logical deduction, pattern recognition and "psychology"
> highly dedicated (this is by NO MEANS easy money)
> genuinely love the game (autistic about it)
> VERY good at managing your emotions
> VERY good at dealing with losses and stress in general
Even if you're very talented it will most likely take you 1 year+ of hard work before you start making enough money to live off of it. And there's no saying how much money you'll be able to make in the future because of fish quitting poker, bots, AI/ solvers etc.
Even as a seasoned pro with a way bigger bankroll than I need for the stakes I play, the stress and variance can still be tough. It's never fun to lose $10k in a day even if you bankroll can handle it. There WILL be months where you lose money, but you have to keep playing your A game and not let it get to you (a lot harder than it sounds). Sometimes I "have to" stay up all night because good games are running which messes with my health.
As a wagie you (more or less) know how much money you're going to make this month and year. I don't. If I work super hard in April and play my very best I might still end up losing money. That can be very tough. Most people probably can't handle it.
The upsides are that the money is good, the freedom (I travel a ton) and I'm my own boss. I can work whenever I feel like it, wake up whenever I feel like it, take a break/ vacation whenever I feel like it etc.
If you have any questions let me know.
Things I can't answer because I don't want to doxx myself:
> what games I play
> my screen names

>> No.18212812

>>18211579
If you'd ever played real poker in a casino you'd know bluffing is a small part of the game. Most average players don't bluff unless they're stuck after acting strong preflop

>> No.18212972

>>18211553
right now ignition and America's card room are blowing up as people are staying home and playing. look up runitonce it's free for a while

>> No.18213004

>>18212760
Why don't people just get/make bots to play optimally for them, if there's still fish to take money from online?

>> No.18213017

>>18212760
Oh, and online poker is infinitely harder than live poker. $0.5/1 online is unironically harder to beat than most $5/10 games at a casino. Modern poker is nothing like what movies make it out to be, it's not as... "epic" and emotional. It's all about game theory, balancing your strategy and statistics. Most of the time when I'm running a huge bluff it's because I have X hand and I know it's theoretically correct to bluff with it, not because I have some sick read on my oppinent. There's little emotion involved, it's all game theory, logic and statistics (you use statistics to spot people who deviate from optimal strategies).

>> No.18213124

>>18212760
You play Commerce?

>> No.18213145

>>18213004
The big sites are pretty good at spotting bots and will ban you + take your entire balance if you're caught. Also, a lot of games are far from being solved. It takes tons of computing power/ time to approximate an optimal strategy for even just a single spot in a complex game like Omaha. Bots
There are very few bots at high stakes because the risk of getting caught is too big and bots still aren't good enough to beat high stakes in most games. If a new name pops up at high stakes and plays extremely well then people get suspicious and might report it to the site.
Botting is is a much bigger problem on obscure sites and at lower stakes where bots don't have to play anywhere near perfect to make money.

>> No.18213168
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18213168

>>18212225
>what is game theory

>> No.18213184

>>18213124
I (almost) only play online.

>> No.18213305

>>18211553
By all counts I am an extremely good poker player just by virtue of being above break even (although desu I kinda suck at live games, I get nervous for some reason and it just feels weird not being able to raise x0.75 the pot or 4x the bb by pushing a button). But no, it is extremely fucking difficult and the swings can be brutal. It's even harder now that a lot of things like ideal c-bet frequency based off your opponents preflop range is more or less solved by data collection software. That's totally legal/allowed by the way except on WSOP-online, which is only available to US players, and EVERYONE who plays seriously is using it.

The low-end tables like 25-200nl (micro stakes too but who gives a fuck) are basically half full of Russians playing 25 tables at once 100% mathematically correct poker. Not to say you can't win at a table like that, there's always idiots who throw $100 on pokerstars and jump into a $1/$2 game then proceed to throw their stack away. But your roi against these really really solid, slightly tight (although def more agro than the 20-tabling nits of the past) players is going be almost nothing. They dont really make any crazy insane plays, but they just play at such volume and play super solid GTO poker.

It's really really hard to win in today's landscape online. Larger, low entry tournaments are probably your best bet, because your retard:pokerneet ratio is a lot higher than the cash tables or single table SNGs. You'll see a lot of dumbasses playing in the $5, $7, $12, etc tournaments, with less and less retards:pokerneets as you move up.

With that said, I know what I'm doing, know the game inside and out, studied it to a borderline obsessive level, and I'm like barely above even outside of tournaments, and those are just propped up by a few bigger wins.

I still play the sunday million sometimes, but fuck trying to do it professionally. Investing in a small business would be way smarter and way easier to profit from.

>> No.18213359

>>18213305
Those Russians are not even close to playing GTO. GTO is a buzzword thrown around way too much. But I agree with most of what you said.

>> No.18213402

is it a good idea to double the pot with AA preflop?

>> No.18213414

>>18213359
fair enough, but a lot of them are insanely solid for how many tables they're playing. They couldn't do that as effectively without handtracking software. Idk, as I said I think its possible, but it just seems like the effort:reward isn't there anymore unless you really love it (as mentioned in one of the posts earlier). I even used the software Im bitching about, but it just makes your possible edge SO much smaller unless you pick your tables obsessively

>> No.18213443

>>18213414
I also never said they were playing the best poker, just making mathematically good decisions most of the time. Like nothing really ever stands out

>> No.18213466

>>18213414
> it just seems like the effort:reward isn't there anymore
Agreed. For most people starting from scratch it isn't worth to try to make it in poker nowadays If you're smart and hard working enough to make it to where you can make good money ($100k+/year) then you could be making more money doing something else.

>> No.18213542

>>18213443
> I also never said they were playing the best poker
You did though. GTO = game theoretical optimal. Actual GTO strategy is literally unbeatable. If they really were playing GTO (they aren't, no isat 6max yet) then they could beat even high stakes pros for a decent winrate.

>> No.18213564

>>18213542
no one is at 6max*

>> No.18213675

>>18211596

Oh my lol

>> No.18213717

>>18213414
>handtracking software
Everyone is using that though. It doesn't make you magically good at the game.

>> No.18213742

>>18211553
>1 post by this ID
you niggers deserve every one of these shit cunt threads

>> No.18213791

>>18211553
If you're intelligent enough to make money playing poker well you're intelligent enough to make a lot fo money in much less risky and reliable methods.

>> No.18214277

>>18211553
if you ever watch poker events with 'pros' its quite obious that it's a scam. every turn someone has a hand with 3% chance

>> No.18214488

>>18211553
Its very hard to win in online poker now days. Live poker with frens is very fun tho

>> No.18214615

>>18213017
why is online harder, do people keep stats open or something?

>> No.18214886

>>18214615
That and you’re playing with more serious players. Live players at the Casino can be gambling degenerates which are easy to beat.

>> No.18214965

>>18212760
Hey, I have over 1m hands online, but so far stuck at 10nl/25nl. I have stopped bothering, but still find fun in game. Maybe if you add me at JOHN#5621 I could ask you some questions.
If not, tell.me what you think BPC coaching for profits at least.

>> No.18215184

>>18214615
Imagine if you could make money in your underwear clicking buttons.

You can. people do. all over the world. they are very good at it.

>> No.18215513

>>18211553
The time investment needed in longer games is why I don't even think of trying it.
Imagine trying to do probability stats in your head on a 10 hour stretch.

>> No.18215516

>>18211553
yeah you can make money with online poker if you can time travel back to 2007

>> No.18215560

>>18215516
whats different now?

>> No.18215561

>>18214615
Several reasons:
> lower barrier to entry.
Unlike i Las Vegas, you're competing against people from poor countries. Making $1.5k/ month probably isn't a ton to you, but it is for someone from Ukraine. They are willing to put in a lot more work.
> You can play a lot more tables
In live games "sharks" can only be at one table at once. Online they sometimes play 20+ tables at once. Meanwhile fish usually don't play that many tables online. This increases the shark:fish ratio.
> you can play a lot more hands online because of multi tabling and more hands being dealt per hour at each table
Live you can play like 30 hands/ hour. If you play 10 tables online you can maybe play 750 hands per hour. This means that pros can make a lot of money playing low stakes (relatively speaking) online = more competition.
> lower variance/ risk for pros online
A good pro playing 1 table of 50/100 live might have the same average profit as he would playing playing 10 tables of 5/10 online. But the variance/ risk is obviously a lot lower if you play online because of the higher number of hands and lower stakes.

HUDs/ live stats just help you keep track of players. They really aren't that big of an advantage. They feed you information such as "X player bets the flop 60% of the time" but they don't tell you what you should do with that inofmration.

>> No.18215571

i had a 6 figure score this year live, no larp.

>> No.18215604

>>18215560
casuals who played for fun/gambling (=people who didn't mind the fact that they kept losing money) got bored and moved on
now you'll play 90% against turboautists who have been playing online poker for 15 years

>> No.18215673

it's impossible to play at hard rock casino unless you want to face really hardcore people

ie, the maximum buyin is $300, and there's someone sitting there every single time with a stack of $100 chips cause they've been sitting there for literal days

I am a winning player but I haven't built a bankroll and I've only played live twice so while literally everyone is playing with their chips like pros and I'm looking awkward as fuck just trying to count them and not piss the dealer off. Oh, and the dealers mostly treat you like an asshole if you show any sign of being new in my experience. Don't get me wrong, some people are cool, and the table talk can be pretty fun. But there's always at least a couple people straddling and it makes it really hard if you don't have a bank roll

Well, I guess you gotta go through it if you wanna get good. My first time there was a lot of fun in spite of said bullshit but last time I just got fucking destroyed

It would be easier if I wasnt 2 hours away from the casino. I want to transition to that lifestyle though, but I need more bankroll and more time to play

Bankroll management is the absolute most important thing. Study it. I know all the odds and playing position and a lot about strategy but none of that matters without bankroll management. Second most important thing is basically paying fucking attention. Watch everyone. If your attention span is short because you aren't taking it seriously, you're going to get schooled

Well I personally want to transition to this as a profession before the game gets taken over by artificial intelligence. I think it's only a matter of time

>> No.18215674

>>18215560
Games have gotten a lot tougher at all stakes. There's more training material out there (even a lot of "fish" study the game), Americans aren't allowed to play on most sites, a lot of fish quit poker because they realize(d) they have no chance of winning against pros etc. Pros started treating poker more like a real job and became more risk averse. Back in the day it was normal for pros to take huge shots at high stakes and risk going broke. If they lost their bankroll they could just make it back at low stakes because games were so soft. Nowadays pros are very conservative about risk/ bankroll management and most pros have a pretty good idea of how good they are. This means there's a lot less pro vs pro battling going on.

>> No.18215708

>>18211577
bout tree fiddy

>> No.18215733

>>18214965
BPC = Best poker coaching?
https://www.bestpokercoaching.com/
?
Idk it, had to google it. Might add you later.

>> No.18215750

>>18215733
what's your biggest tournament cash

>> No.18216016

>>18215733
Yes same thing

>> No.18216578

>>18213402
3 bet jam all day err day

>> No.18216629

>>18212297
>Meme theory
Fuck off reddit

>> No.18216805

>>18216629
Game theory is just a fancy of saying optimal decision making in games (and game-like situations). Maybe the term is overused, but it's a very real thing in poker.

>> No.18216839

>>18216805
I know. The term is pozzed.

>> No.18217168

>>18211553
fun game to play with the broskies, or small hands, dumb to try and go pro player unless you are a turbo autist

>> No.18217228

>>18212406
Source?

>> No.18217278

>>18212225
Nice bait

>> No.18217302

>>18211553
You can make money, it's just very tedious and you need to multibox at least 4 tables at the same time. Might as well get a regular full time job.

>> No.18217313

>>18211726
Trading is easy. Poker is rigged

>> No.18217321

>>18217228
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLXPGwJNLHk

i was bored so i looked it up, very cool

>> No.18217354

>>18211553
why don't you get a bunch of your friends to all try to force-log on the same table and you guys can hustle the house, or do the same anywhere. best way to game poker.

>> No.18218134

>>18211553
to be consistently gainfully (>100k) profitable at poker would take more dedication and intelligence than simply learning to code or starting a small business. it's also extremely less socially rewarding and has little path for progression. Very few players make food money. Even fewer still have enviable lives with good health, family, and social status.

>> No.18218159

>>18211553
Poke her? I don't even know her.

>> No.18218497

>>18214277
>pros in tournaments play thousands of hands
>TV only shows you the sick beats
It's a scam bro.

>> No.18218639

Just make sure you play at stakes where they respect your raises

>> No.18218744

>>18216629
>calling an actual mathematical concept that people study in graduate level math and economics programs a Reddit meme

Are you literally retarded?

>> No.18218790

>>18211609
This. As retarded as many players are, they aren't that dumb anymore.
t. made money before the fbi shut shit down (circa 2008), came back recently and it's basically over now.

>> No.18218818

>>18211726
>Less rigged
Only if you play large tournaments. Even then there are colluding bot/human rings all the time.

>> No.18218835

>>18212406
Only heads up. Bot collusion is the real problem.

>> No.18218850

>>18215513
There are easy heuristics. The bigger problem for most people is discipline and flexibility.

>> No.18218897

>>18217354
That's also why no one plays single table anything online. Other sites have randomized cash games where you go into a different table after you complete each hand (forgot what it's called), but our fbi/casino alliance doesn't allow that here because they want you at the casino. Oh yeah, they're all closed now, lmao, and I hope it kills everyone.