Why do countries have trade quotes and tarrifs

[Anonymous No.17156679]

Why have trade quotes or tarrifs?

Let's say country X puts on lots to tarrifs 50% on importing Cars, in order to protect thier own local car manufacturer companies.

Why not remove the tarrifs? Fuck the local car manufacturers. Won't all the rest of the people benefit from higher competition and lower costs and a range of cars?

What's wrong with that? Won't citizens benefit and save money from cheaper cars and have more variety?

[Anonymous No.17156694]

>>17156679
shut up, lolbertarian faggot.

[Anonymous No.17156708]

>>17156694
>Won't citizens benefit and save money from cheaper cars and have more variety?
>>17156694
WONT ALL CITIZENS benefit

[Anonymous No.17156720]

>>17156679
You’re a good man.
You see people are selfish and they want to prop up their own local manufacturers even if they’re bad at making cars. It’s all because they like those car manufacturers as they are members of their own race.
It’s racial bullshit.
Welfare to members of people with the same skin color as you

[Anonymous No.17156743]

>>17156679
Your funds are going to leave the country, which is never good. With a tariff, you get some of that money back. With a quota, you control the amount of money lost.
If the local businesses go bankrupt, you got a bunch of unemployed people on your hands, and that contributes to crime, homelessness etc.

It only works when those countries are in a tightly-knit union like the EU, but look at Greece. It's financially fucked.

[Anonymous No.17156760]

It isn't as simple as that. At the most base level, you want your country to maintain some level of manufacturing capability. This is critical in case of war, or if the country you're buying from gets hostile and jacks up prices once there is no more competition onshore.

Additionally, it causes a ton of domestic strife among the workers impacted by the sudden loss of their economy. And then you end up with a Trump.

As a teenager I was a pure libertarian but I've since come around. Idealized politics can't exist in a reality where nation-states are in eternal competition with one another, on every level imaginable, military or economic. A healthy, productive democratic state needs a healthy, productive workforce, with everyone engaged and earning. Otherwise you develop a massive dependent class of disenfranchised, poor, miserable, and easily radicalized people.

[Anonymous No.17156766]

>>17156679
>Won't citizens benefit and save money from cheaper cars and have more variety?
Yes. People who support tariffs do not understand economics.

[Anonymous No.17156777]

>>17156760

I mean, just look at that graph. What kind of fluffy made up bubble economy has 70% of its workforce in "healthcare and social services". We lost 10 million manufacturing jobs after China entered the WTO in 2001 and it HAMMERED much of the country.

[Anonymous No.17156803]

>>17156743
>If the local businesses go bankrupt, you got a bunch of unemployed people on your hands, and that contributes to crime, homelessness etc.

How will other local business struggle? Won't the economy see a boost?

Let's say a car costs £10,000 in UK
Let's say after cutting tarrifs those imported cars cost £5,000.

I now have £5,000 cash saving. I can spend this and help OTHER local businesses.
I understand that money would leave the country, but from my £5,000 saving.

What if I started my own company, over time and later on exported out my services ? Now won't that balance out?

[Anonymous No.17156844]

>>17156777
>We lost 10 million manufacturing jobs after China entered the WTO in 200


How much did you guys benefit from cheaper cars and cheaper phones? Yes you lost jobs. I understand, but

Surely, losing10m lost jobs Vs faster growth, better products and more innovation is better?

[Anonymous No.17156855]

>>17156766
Unfortunately that can spiral into job loss and lower local wages...you're seeing the result of that in the US now. Cheaper begets cheaper.

[Anonymous No.17156918]

>>17156844

Not a lot. Dude, people lost their entire livelihood. Who gives a fuck if your TV is $200 cheaper now. I grew up in ground zero of this phenomenon and it's still recovering.

Stop buying into globohomo economist's lies. Even they have started to finally walk back their "muh totally free trade" zealotry.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/10/22/economists-globalization-trade-paul-krugman-china/

Trump has basically revealed a big dark secret that both Dems/Repubs have refused to delineate: China was a massive mistake for the US in trade. On many levels.

Here's the thing: China doesn't have a minimum wage. China doesn't have regulations for pollution and waste. China doesn't have regulations for safety. All of these things make it way harder for an American factory to compete. Are you going to leave that factory high and dry to let China snap up the work and pay slaves 1 cent an hour to work in a smoke filled shithouse? The field is already unfair, because we as Americans decided we wanted standards. It's TOTALLY unfair to leave these people high and dry after instituting all of these controls that reflect our ideals as Americans.

The only people who truly capitalize in offshoring are the rich business owners who now produce in shitholeland, China, and sell in the United States.

[Anonymous No.17156946]

>>17156844
>Surely, losing10m lost jobs Vs faster growth, better products and more innovation is better?
Not for the 10m people who lost their jobs
People who are dissatisfied are also more likely to take action (i.e. vote) than people who are satisfied or indifferent, which a candidate can take advantage of

[Anonymous No.17156995]

>>17156946

This. When an economist makes a cute little mathematical model of "GDP growth" it's rudimentary and doesn't take into account the deep complexity of the underlying state and society. If 30% of society suddenly loses their ability to earn and participate, they're going to get really bitter, really fast. No, not everybody can fucking code (speaking as a software engineer). Trump was just stage 1: the first wave of dissent. If things got worse, you'd hit stage 2 and possibly 3: outright socialists and radicals who would transform the entire fabric and culture of the US as we know it. And now you're suddenly losing ALL of that "economic freedom" you cherish. Pure systems cannot exist in reality. Mostly free trade is good for market forces, but there has to be protections and a pragmatic approach to applying them. China knows this. They've been experiencing incredible growth for 20 years while having some of the stiffest trade barriers on the planet.

[Anonymous No.17157075]

>>17156918
Free trade increases world gdp productivity and prosperity. Adding trillions to the world economy

[Anonymous No.17157092]

>>17156803
What's all this about saving money goy? What are you a fucking nazi?

[Anonymous No.17157095]

>>17156760
>At the most base level, you want your country to maintain some level of manufacturing capability. This is critical in case of war, or if the country you're buying from gets hostile and jacks up prices once there is no more competition onshore.
Nobody can be hostile if everyone is dependent on one another.

[Anonymous No.17157148]

>>17156918
Wow thank you for putting that it much much greater prospective. Good work annon.

[Anonymous No.17157160]

>>17157075
>>17157095

These are the kinds of platitudinal, massively generalized and ignorant statements I'm talking about. Human nature is all about competition and supremacy. This manifests in human governments. If you paid ANY attention to this China/US thing you would see that it has been revealed that China has been deliberately gaming and benefitting from asymmetric trading policies that selfishly benefit themselves and transfer wealth from the American worker to the Chinese and American businessman. They were allowed full access to American consumers while barricading American producers from doing business in their own country in a number of ways. Where China realized they couldn't go toe to toe with the US military-wise (yet), they could adopt a hostile trade policy and "win" over time to that effect.

It is true that free trade is generally good, but it is also true that "free trade" can be a weakness when some actors aren't playing by the same rules. China doesn't want your utopian one world kumbaya society, China wants to beat the US and secure the #1 spot. They were well on their way at the prior rate.

[Anonymous No.17157222]

>>17157160

To add on to this, do not for a second think that the rest of the world is sitting in a glowing kind of post-victory, MAD-induced comfort that the United States is. There are plenty of other countries below us that want to WIN. They are not happy with America running the world show. We are currently chock-full of China-financed propaganda in our own country even. They keep a lid on the media in their own state... and know they can subvert and influence us through our own "free" media that is available to the biggest checkbook. It isn't a big coincidence that the major Silicon Valley corps on the West coast, a stone's throw from China, in an area that is majorly full of Chinese works and investments, are some of the biggest proponents of "trade war bad" and "open borders good." We are in a war ladies and gentlemen, it's way more subtle than guns and fighter jets but it is there, and the Chinese are wise to know the inherent weaknesses of an open, free democratic society like the US. It's on American citizens to be wise to them and respond accordingly. If we are ignorant, and buy into the bullshit, we have lost in the end.

[Anonymous No.17157241]

>>17157160
Yeah wealth has been transferred but the American economy has been transitioning to a service based economy and the tech industry.
iPhones would never cost as little as they do today if not for China. So much tech costs little now because of outsourcing.
Unemployment has been at a record low for ages according to the official numbers. Healthcare jobs are necessary because of the aging population.

[Anonymous No.17157290]

>>17157241

So you exchanged a massive, transformative loss of jobs and wealth (take a look at how the top 1% has benefitted from this exchange in the past 20 years compared to the bottom 50%), for slightly cheaper phones. Do you realize how fucking stupid you sound? Who gives a shit if you're paying somewhat more on toys. Jobs matter, wages matter, independence matters, manufacturing capability matters, the fact that China has an explicit 20 year plan to surmount the United States and this is deliberately a part of it matters.

As for the unemployment remark I don't know what crack you've been smoking. Is this literally Zhang Wang Poontang behind the keyboard right now?

[Anonymous No.17157345]

>>17157241

Can you spot on the graph where "globalization" became the religion and doctrine of this country's government anon?

[Anonymous No.17157372]

One thing I've never understood is how people can be for democracy, we are all equal yada yada and all that shit while buying stuff from China and other slave tier countries. How can a country say that they are democratic when they use the slave force from countries like China to produce most of their stuff.

Personally, I think an "ideal" free trade would be between countries where the living standards are similar and the countries are allies as well. Like most of the EU and US and some other countries like Australia for example. Of course this would be "bad" since a lot of stuff would cost more like Nikes would probably cost $140 instead of $60 etc, but I'm guessing wages would be higher as well.

It's really an interesting topic and more complex than it seems.

[Anonymous No.17157381]

>>17157345
1975?

>>17157290
So high school dropouts are hit harder by recessions. What does that mean anyway

[Anonymous No.17157390]

>>17156855
Exhibit A.

Job loss and lower wages are not as a result of lack of tariffs. They are largely the result of lowered economic productivity (as a result of government intervention and the assault on savings conducted by the federal reserve for the past century). Go pick up a book.

[Anonymous No.17157421]

This is a great thread and wish biz had more of these discussions.

[Anonymous No.17157438]

USA has been and is working toward self sufficiency. They no longer rely on energy from any other country and their only goal in china now is to quell their power before it gets too much of a handful. USA will continue to lead the world they will develop mexico crush the cartels and use the young Mexican population as the basis of their manufacturing workforce. Then the government sponsored privately ran space wars can begin.

[Anonymous No.17157578]

>>17157421
Thank you. Interesting to hear different opinions and compare them with the media and how's are in my country.

[Anonymous No.17158004]

>>17157438
>self sufficiency
by going to war with and supporting false flag attacks on other countries for their oil?

[Anonymous No.17158596]

>>17156803
But with no tariffs there's a good chance that some of those other 5,000 go to buying other foreign products. Which helps the chink economy instead of your country's economy.

[Anonymous No.17158660]

>>17157222
ty for this post anon

[Anonymous No.17158680]

>>17156679
To keep people in first-world nations from having to compete with third-worlders who can afford to work for $0.05 per day because cost of living is so low in their dumpster fire nations.

[Anonymous No.17159599]

>>17158004
Brainlet response. The oil wars were temporary, whilst technologies were developed to gain oil independence. Fracking et al.
middle eastern stability was important because the us economy depended on Europe being able to buy from Saudis and keeping prices low instead of buying from Russia (giving them power) and Canada (increasing our costs).
Now theres no need USA can go alone, europe is fucked.

[Anonymous No.17159639]

>>17156679
You're right. The memesters here are too caught up in various ideologies but it really is that simple. With tarrifs you are essentially protecting one class at the expense of another one. It's just another form of taxation.