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1705158 No.1705158 [Reply] [Original]

Do any of you rent? Why would you do that, when buying a home is effectively free because you get all your money back when you sell?

>> No.1705162

>>1705158
>Do any of you rent? Why would you do that, when buying a home is effectively free because you get all your money back when you sell?

it's free if you are lucky and you can sell well, and had no maintenance costs in the meantime and paid for it out of your own pocket not bought it on loan. if if if...

>> No.1705171

>>1705158
You're ignoring-
property taxes
maintenance and repairs
possible depreciation due to many factors
natural or man-made disasters
the ability to move on short notice for say a job opportunity

There are lots of reasons to buy or rent, it's not as black and white as you make it.

>> No.1705175

>>1705158
Because I cant get a mortgage and dont have $10,000+ in cash to buy a fixer-upper.

Also, I dont want to be homeless

>> No.1705180
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1705180

>>1705158

>> No.1705192

>>1705171
>You're ignoring-
>property taxes
Tax deductible.
>maintenance and repairs
You pay these too when you rent; its just hidden.
>possible depreciation due to many factors
Appreciation is more likely.
>natural or man-made disasters
What is insurance?
>the ability to move on short notice for say a job opportunity
You can sell a house much faster than you can legally break a 12 month lease.

>> No.1705205

>>1705192
>>Tax deductible.
Still paying more tax wise
>>You pay these too when you rent; its just hidden.
Not if you find out you have termites, or your roof caves in because your inspector missed it.
>>Appreciation is more likely.
Said the fools in '08, still not a guarantee.
>>You can sell a house much faster than you can legally break a 12 month lease.
You can break a lease and pay a fee, find someone to take over the lease, or just not sign year long leases. Try selling a house for the price you want on a whims notice. Not happening.

I'm not saying buying a house is a bad idea, but it's not something you have to do now especially if you're young and moving for your career will increase your net worth substantially.

>> No.1705214

>>1705205
>What is insurance?
Missed this, more expensive that 5 dollar a month renters insurance.

>> No.1705246

because why would you want to tie yourself down with a house if you can afford to rent for long time scales?

>> No.1705259

>>1705205
Unless you bought in 2006-7, your house is almost worth more in nominal terms than it was when you bought it. And even if there is depreciation, getting 80% back when you sell is still better than getting 0 like with renting. The only reason not to buy is if your credit isn't good enough for a mortgage

>> No.1705265

>>1705259
You're being dense for no reason.

What if you don't plan on staying in the area for a long period of time? Is it still time to buy? Get real.

>> No.1705305

>>1705205
>Still paying more tax wise
When you rent, you're paying the landlord's taxes.
>Not if you find out you have termites, or your roof caves in because your inspector missed it.
You don't seem to understand how rents work.
>more expensive that 5 dollar a month renters insurance
When you rent, you're paying the landlord's insurance too. Plus you have to pay for renter's insurance. Shitty deal.
>Said the fools in '08, still not a guarantee.
Yes, there is a chance your equity will fall in value. But there is a 100% chance you will get no residual value from your rent. I'll take my chances on the investment asset, thanks.
>You can break a lease and pay a fee, find someone to take over the lease, or just not sign year long leases.
You can take a financial hit on a house sale too, if you need to. You can also rent your house.
>moving for your career will increase your net worth substantially
A house doesn't make you any less mobile. It just changes the economics. Plus some employers will buy your house as an incentive to get you to move. But if you're stuck in an apartment lease, you're just fucked.

Stopping making it sound so one-sided. You come across as a loon.

>> No.1705319

>>1705305
Nigger the entire time I've been saying it just depends on your circumstances. You fags have been saying buy buy buy the entire time thus making it one sided.

>> No.1705399

>>1705192

My lease is only 1 Month, suck on that.

>> No.1705407
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1705407

>>1705158
because housing is a giant bubble caused by manipulated, record low interest rates. It will burst, like every bubble does, and I will be there, to pick up the bargains.

If you bought before year 2000, hang on. If you bought after, you will end up underwater.

>> No.1705411

>>1705399
My lease is weekly

>> No.1705446

>>1705158
>save up for down payment
>house prices go up and I get priced out
Now I'm sitting on all this money, waiting for the market to go back down or for me to get a raise/better job. If I get a job in a major city, I certainly can't afford a house close by and will have to commute big league or rent. But that is just Commiefornia for you.

>> No.1705448

>>1705158

I happily rent.

I'm single and have a good deal on an apartment in a good area.

Yes owning would be the better long term investment, but you have to also consider the stress of owning.

With my landlord I give them ONE CHECK every month. For everything. And if anything breaks its on him. Plus he's really nice. Shit is great.

As for investments my spare money goes into the stock market, and I'm up 30% this year.

>> No.1705451

>>1705399
>My lease is only 1 Month, suck on that.
>>1705411
>My lease is weekly
You pay a premium for short-term leases. It's nice that you have the ability to walk away, but don't pretend you didn't pay for the privilege.

>> No.1705481

>>1705407
Low interest rates stimulate construction -> lower housing prices you dumb nigger. And in many markets new construction is effectively illegal, ensuring a high rate of return on investment in housing

>> No.1705483

>>1705451
$500 / month for a 2 bedroom house + a yard.

Previously I lived in the cheapest apartment I could find here and it was $425 / month (only including water + heat).

Its just an old guy thats old fashioned. The trade off is hes going to die at some point and I doubt whoever owns the house next will be as generous.

>> No.1705490

housing here goes up at alarming rate, fuck buying. bubble gonna burst soon

>> No.1705495

As always the answer depends 100% on where you live. In a city you can argue that renting is cheaper especially if the property tax is high. Just a little ways out or if you're in any form of non-city then it's going to be much more affordable to buy.

>> No.1705516

>>1705490
>>1705490
Before you write-off the benefits of purchasing, you have to take a couple things into consideration

>How big is the bubble compared to inflation?
>How many years will I live there?
>What is the population density going to be X years in the future?

Making this decision is a tough one, but what helps you to judge is crafting a well-rounded and detailed comparison of the housing market that you wish to buy into and another housing market that is comparable. Better yet would be to choose a housing market that was comparable to the area you are looking at now so many years in the past, so that you can have a relevant example of a possible appreciation/depreciation scenario

>> No.1705522

>>1705158

I pay the state 700 dollars to own my shitty apartment
I pay the state 1000 dollars to own my shitty car

Even if you don't pay rent to private people or companies, the state will always get its share

>> No.1705539
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1705539

>>1705481
and how many cities actually have low cost housing?

Where I live in Sydney? fuck no!
Singapore? HongKong? London? Auckland? Vancouver? Any of your shitty US cities? NY? SF?

Your theory does not describe reality.

>> No.1705540

>>1705516
>natural bubble
demand
proximity to jobs
suburbs/city
cost
land price
permits

>artificial bubble
gentrification
migration
interest rates
banks too easy on the trigger when it comes to lending
government and city hall corruption (slow permit process to slow down the availability

>> No.1705545

>>1705540
oh and i forgot is media pressure to buy which is also a big factor

>> No.1705687

The additional costs are hidden in the price of rent, yes. However, most people rent APARTMENTS not HOUSES.

In an apartment complex these costs are heavily reduced because they are shared by everyone there.

Houses are overpriced literal garbage, they are made from shit and you have to take care of a bunch of things you would never have to living in an apartment. The purpose of a house is to start a family.

>> No.1705691

>>1705158

There are plenty of reasons to buy over renting, but that bait isn't even on the hook, lad.

>> No.1705787

>>1705687
>The purpose of a house is to start a family.
This is how virgins think babby is made.

>> No.1705795

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/percent-736817-sales-home.html

J U S T

>> No.1705804

145k per year income and me and my wife gladly rent $1750 a month house in burbs outside of a major city. We dont go out but once a month.

1. Sure we might have 40k laying around for a down payment but why would I put that money in a home, that only grows at 2-3% per year? I can invest that in a index fund at 6-10%, Bitcoin, or real estate.
2. The tax deduction is bullshit for home ownership. 90% of home owners still take the standard deduction. I'll use my side hustle home office and get 10% write off not only my rent, but all housing expenses
3. All my energy goes into making money and my career- I don't stress or even have to worry about my water heater breaking, garage door acting up, or when the roof needs repairs.
4. Home owners insurance has a 500-2k deductible. Still not cheap.
5. When you rent you down blow money re doing the kitchen because you feel like it and your less likely to buy expensive furniture since you might move.

Home ownership is a scam designed to keep you in the middle class. Unless your rich (over 5 million net worth), use your cash elsewhere.

>> No.1705806

>>1705795
california is fucked. if you look at the california sales price charts the bubble bursting wasn't even a crash, but a small dip and then the price sky rocketed.

>> No.1705818

>>1705804
all three properties that i bought are cheaper to own than they would be to rent. two are being rented out.

>> No.1705836
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1705836

>>1705481

Uh yeah, the only shit they build in the US anymore are 3-5000 square foot mcmansions with 3 car garages on postage stamp yards or overpriced condohousing, the two most profitable ways to cut up development land. Literally nobody builds starter homes anymore. Nobody builds reasonably sized houses on decent sized yards. Everything is built with garbage materials that last 20 years max to save as much as humanly possible during construction.

As was mentioned previously, housing prices are currently where they are at solely thanks to cheap interest rates. Any big bump in rates will make new mortgages wildly affordable at current prices. I have no way of knowing when rates are going to rise. But it will at some point, and when it does, its going to be a fucking massacre. Same with the over priced, over-vacant commercial real estate sector.

>> No.1705837

It always a cheaper mortgage payment than rent payment.
Owning it means you take on the risk. My co worker just put 15k in new windows on her home. My parents just put 12k. Both also spend way more on upkeep since they own it they are always doing bullshit projects around thier home. I have a nice bathroom and a nice shower, but for some reason when you own a house people get crazy and want to pump money into upgrades non stop. All that cash is wasted and you will be lucky to get that back in 15 years when you sell. I want my cash making money for me now.

When your doing the repairs yourself, your actually paying 1.3x the cost since its post tax money.

If it happens to your landlord it's basically a tax deduction.

>> No.1705842

>>1705836

>affordable

unaffordable*

>> No.1705874

>>1705158
Yeah u can just rent any of every house through the Ira and federal reserve.... Just gotta get a job and build up your credit op...

>> No.1705925

>>1705483
Don't wait until he's dead, old people will often just decide to get out of the rental market and put the place up for sale. This happened to my uncle and because of the rental market at the time he had to come up with the down payment.

Being on a short lease means you're fucked in that case if you aren't able to find a new place on no notice. At least my uncle's year-long lease protected him enough to give him time to buy the place.

>> No.1705938

>>1705804
>5. When you rent you down blow money re doing the kitchen because you feel like it and your less likely to buy expensive furniture since you might move.

I don't get that mentality at all, which is why I'm not about to blow any big money on the place I bought last spring. My couches don't match, I stole my endtables from a derelict building, coffee table was on the side of the road, everything else was local buy and sell cheap pickups.
The only work I plan to do is what the inspector recommended when I bought it and maybe upgrading the hot water tank to an on demand system.

The rest are pretty valid points, but even in a rental I'd worry about the roof or hot water tank. Sure, you don't pay for the repairs, but you're still likely going to your stuff wrecked in the process and renter's insurance is crap.

>> No.1705952

>>1705795
>tfw when you buy your parents OC house at a bargain

>> No.1705957
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1705957

>>1705158
M8 I paid off 5 years ago, now I can NEET, 6 months working 6 months funposting.

>> No.1706283

>>1705192
>What is insurance?
it's a liability anon that's what it is a fucking huge expense

>> No.1706284

>>1705481
low interest rates don't make housing cheaper at all. people go for less affordable housing in low interest environment and compete over a subset of houses.

>> No.1706294

>>1705787
When's the last time you went outside?
Couples with dual income buy houses to have kids in. Why would a single person buy a minimum three bedroom house.

>> No.1706519

>>1706294
So they can rent out the other two bedrooms.

Checkmate, athiests

>> No.1706631

>>1706519
so you have to pay off a big mortgage to live with roommates again and make less than you would with a diversified portfolio

how incredibly desirable

>> No.1706654
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1706654

>>1705158
>renting

>> No.1706664

>>1706631
Longer that this thread goes on, you're going to need to post your area and what the choices are.

I live in a medium sized city in the midwest and the cheapest apartment is 600 a month. Meanwhile you can get a 3 bed 2 bath house for this, unless you're paying someone else out the ass to do the lawn. You can then rent out the 2 other beds or make them do all the chores. If you want to go solo they have even smaller houses for even less.

Also around here we get snow so and you need a car so leaving it outside forever is going to be a bad idea. And none of the rentals for this price have a garage or shared parking.

If you are in a big city with proper public transport you can easily get away with no car and house prices are indeed unfeasible.

>> No.1707195

>>1706631
Standard rentcuck fallacy - you're comparing apples to oranges. "Muh portfolio" is not a place to live. You must compare renting to owning. And, in this particular case, I'm suggesting that you compare renting to owning and having room-mates.

>> No.1707203

>>1706664
I live in the KC metro where rents are 7-800 typically. Houses are being bought at tens of thousands of dollars higher than what they are worth and are made of shit. That monthly payment is 1.5x higher. Any smaller than 3 bedroom are cat piss stained slab homes built right after WWII in the shittiest parts of town. Being a roommate is bad, being a landlord is SO much worse.

>> No.1707212

>>1707203
nothing wrong with a slab home. basements are pretty shit.

>> No.1707225

>>1707212
Nothing wrong with a slab home built 20 years ago not 80 years ago and owned by three generations of cat ladies

>> No.1707228

>>1707212
Nothing wrong with a slab home built 20 years ago not 80 years ago and owned by three generations of cat ladies

>> No.1707231

>>1707225
>>1707228
i bought a 90 year old home recently. rather have that than the plywood and 2x4 shit they build nowadays.

>> No.1707254

I'm a licensed/certified MLO. I'm opening my own mortgage brokerage corporation in 2017. I'm going to reign you all on in some real advice.

Now, OP's advice does hold relative truth. Buying a home and paying PITI whilst building equity in your property instead of throwing money at a landlord DOES work and actually CAN decrease your overall living expenses in many cases. A person who is currently renting at 1.5k$ a month can infact put money down on a home, and their PITI expenses could be somewhere around 1k$ per month even.

Just like investing in anything, investing in real estate takes skill and knowledge. You need to be able to subtract the total expenses from gross rents and see if your property cash flows.

You know what you can do if you're not retarded, lots of county's have down-payment assistance plans. For instance, where I live, if you're buying a home they'll give you 10k$ in down-payment funds. Consider taking out a 3.5% minimum FHA loan on a 300k multi-unit residential property (can be a duplex, triplex, 4flat, etc). 3.5% of 300k$ is $10,500. Now subtract the 10k$ downpayment assistance, that's 500$. You're paying 500 fucking dollars (not including closing costs) to move in to a multi-residential unit. Then, if you're not retarded, the other unit rents SHOULD cover the total PITI, and even cash flow.

Enjoy living rent free and not being a fucking goy. Then, you can legally move from the property after 1 year and convert it's status into a legal investment property that you essentially purchased for pennies.

>> No.1707363

>>1707254
>300k multi-unit residential property
not everyone lives in a slum.

>> No.1707487

>>1707363

You're viewing that price through the lens of particular housing markets. Housing prices reflect the availability of job markets.

Yeah, no shit that 300k won't get you shit in a city like in Vancouver or San Fran. Everybody has seen mansion or crack shack. However, in cities that aren't pants on head retarded, 300k will get you so much all over the US in cities with booming industries like IT, Oil/Gas, Coal.

Besides, you're on 4chan. People on 4chan aren't going around dropping 1 million as downpayments.

>> No.1707495

>>1707254
you have to be low income to qualify for down payment assistance

>> No.1707499
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1707499

>>1705158
>oi vey, take out a mortgage goyim!

>> No.1707510

>>1707495

I don't know if you consider 90k per year to be considered low income, because that's what many of these programs will go up to. Again, this is 4chan, lots of people on here are NEETs. This advice is gold to certain people.

>> No.1707515

>28
>will pay off house at 40

I don't understand rentcucks

>> No.1708255

because I work in a big city, and why would I want to buy a shitty overpriced department in this crappy city, when
- I can buy a nice house in some small touristic city for half the price, and
- NO ONE assures me that I will have this well paying job for eternity
?

>> No.1709032

>>1707510
my county its ~$40k which is better than a walmart greeter but not by much

>> No.1709229

>>1705319
You are expecting an anon high on sugar and his own inflated sense of worth, to be able to not see things in black & white.

I am a digital nomad. I'd rather put all my money in shit-coins than buy a condo in Cambodia. Shit-coins are safer.

>> No.1709422

>>1707515
whats to understand?.
They cant afford to buy a house so they rent.

>> No.1709462

>>1707515
>I paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to live in a shitshack made of plywood and wrapped in tyvek plastic and I will be making payments on it for over a decade, after which I will live in the same shitty suburb the rest of my life, obsessing over the stupid lawn

I don't understand mortgage slaves

>> No.1709524

>>1707515
>I don't live in a city

>>1709462
>I live in a city

Why is this so hard to understand?

>> No.1709565

House in Houston zoned to a nigger school = $300K with 2.55% property tax

House in Houston suburb zoned to white school = $275K with 3.55% property tax

Even making six figures that will take me 5 years of savings to get close to 20% down payment

>> No.1709670

>>1705158
>buying a home is effectively free because you get all your money back when you sell?
This is retarded. First: You're still paying taxes, utilities, insurance, repairs, etc the same as you would while renting. Owning is cheaper (by the profit margin of the landlord), but no-where close to free or "effectively free".

And where the fuck do you live? Because it sure sounds nice, if you can make your money back on selling the same home short-term.
-You're unlikely to find a buyer willing to pay a nice price short-term. Selling a house can take months. This ties you and your money down. If you're not rich or willing to go into massive debt, you usually can't afford owning two homes for half a year.
-Appreciation is a hope. Depreciation is a fact. And not even from prices falling, but from you living inside, wear and tear, aging, etc. If you're unwilling to invest (and why would you if you only plan on staying short-term) your house will go to shit and fetch a lower price unless appreciation in your area happens to make up for it which is far from guaranteed.
-Every transaction carries costs. Around these parts I pay on the order of 8-10% in various taxes, fees, etc and that's without an agent (who would add another ~4% on top). You pay much more than what the property is worth which you have to make up before selling.

Short-term owning is very likely to be a massive losing proposition. I'm not saying renting is god, but it has its place. I'm a landlord myself, I've had my fair share of experience with both owning and renting. If you're clever about renting you can really screw your landlord over and get off much better than if you had owned the property.

>> No.1709732

>>1709670
>If you're clever about renting you can really screw your landlord over and get off much better than if you had owned the property.
this is very true, the landlord has many legal obligations and usually hanged out to dry by the law. at least here. i could really fuck my landlord sideways, but instead i try to be as agreeable to him as possible, because my rent right now is quiet cheap. i even go ahead and fix shit or arrange it to be fixed in his place and pay for half a year in advance.

i think i rent about 20% under the market this probably really cuts into his profit margin but i suspect he did not buy the flat to rent it out he rents it out not to lose money.

>> No.1709757

>>1709462
>making payments on it for over a decade
For most people it's three decades.

>> No.1709766

>>1709757
i could buy a house out of my pocket, or i could spend 3 decades to pay for the same one in the better parts of the city.

it's really about where you buy.

>> No.1709781

>>1706631

>muh deversivied portfolio will never lose money

I would like to see the returns on every portfolio on this board.

muh index funds

>> No.1709790
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1709790

> living anywhere near renting fucking scum

renters are the most disgusting subhumans on the planet

>> No.1709841

>>1709766
Just saying most people sign 30 year mortgage contracts no matter where they buy.

>> No.1709907

>>1709790
>have 30 times the net worth as the next dude
>all tied up in an "asset" that bleeds me money
sounds smart, most of that net worth is their home equity.

>>1709841
yeah well, i would never do that, but i guess different times and places. you see about every decade your home costs about half the purchasing price again. in 30 years your home would have cost you the flat price times 3.5 at least considering your mortgage payments and probably only worth the same (or less) inflation adjusted.

>> No.1709916

>>1709907

enjoy staring at your huge portfolio in your parent's basement

>> No.1709924

>>1709916
i rent with gf so i only pay half the rent. it's quiet cheap. my monthly rent rate is about 0.32% to buy. tell me how i should buy instead!

>> No.1709944

>>1709924

>tfw my property is increasing at 10-15% in austin tx
>tfw my condo community are all owners and are highly successful, excellent for networking
>tfw apartment communites have dog shit and piss everwhere
> tfw I fixed it up and increased the value 60K
> tfw I enjoy owning and using cheap levarge on an asset that improves the quality of my life

>> No.1709958

>>1705192
only /biz/ would try to argue that owning a house is more hassle-free than renting.

only someone that's never done both would try to argue that owning a house is more hassle-free than renting

>> No.1709960

>>1709944
>tfw my dick is a foot long and shoots diamonds

yeah yeah yeah...

but if you actually would listen to what i'm saying you would understand: buying and renting is not unconditional. when rent cost ratio reaches 1% to buy you buy, preferably not on loan but just pay the fucking thing unless you can get mortgage at better rates than what your investments bring in in which case you actually buy on mortgage.

and when the real-estate market is in a bubble you just don't fucking buy. period. there is no way you gonna come out of it all right. especially if inflation kicks in and the housing bubble collapses you will bleed money like a fucking idiot.

but there are times when even i would rather buy.

>> No.1709968

>>1707254
Sounds like a good deal. How much do I lose hiring a property manager because I don't want to directly deal with my renters?

>> No.1709969

>>1709960

I think you guys are gunshy from 2009 with these housing bubble fears.

>> No.1710003

>>1709969
well as i like to say only time will tell who was right.
all i can say when i can rent so cheap that it would take 30 years just for the flat rate to clear i'm not going to buy.

>> No.1710007

>>1710003

well I'm glad we all have the freedom yet to buy what we want

>> No.1710019

There are several reasons I don't buy a house.
I don't plan to live in my location more than 10 years.
There is no income tax here, but property taxes are really high. so I am essentially avoiding taxes as much as possible at the moment.

>> No.1710026

>>1709968
You don't get shitty renters because they will cause other problems anyway. You interview them before you choose. If you're cool then you will attract non-shit renters.

>> No.1710028

>>1710019
it's not very likely you don't pay the taxes if you rent anon.

>> No.1710038

>>1710028
Pretty sure the taxes on a 1 bedroom apartment would be lower than on a house. Taxes are divided on multiple tenants.

>> No.1710049

>paying rent
>buying a house

Lol. I just live with my parents rent free. I'm 28.

>> No.1710083

>>1710026
I'm very much not cool, and the market I'm looking at has a vaguely shitty population. How much overhead can I expect to add for a middle-man?

>> No.1710109

>>1710049

/biz/ in a nut shell

>> No.1710153

>>1710038
oh i see what you meant than.

>> No.1710448

>>1710049
this
24
have more net worth than both renters and owners in that stupid pic up there and its entirely liquid